Should Joe Wilson be punished for his remarks yesterday during the presidents speech?
I don't care if you don't like the health care debate their should not be an outburst of this sort towards the President of the United States. Especially, from a congressman.
What do you think..
i don't think he should be fired i mean he was elected...but he should be talked to - that was crass and made him look like an idiot.
He should absolutely be punished his comment was uncalled for and quite unprofessional one would expect to hear that from a child not a grown adult who is representing his state.
Should he be spanked? I'm not sure how he could be punished any more than censure!
You'd like to see that wouldn't you?
Bend him over and use the paddle! It works everytime.
It doesn't matter, necessarily, what any of us think. His constituency will see to what THEY think. At last count, last night, people were flooding his democratic opponent's website with donations...$42,000 in short order. I'm sure it is probably quadruple that amount by now.
So, he will be punished, in a way. Maybe his outburst was just an audition as a Fox news commentator, though. LOL, as someone said in the forums last night.
Sounds like the guy was overtaken with emotion, but still it was not a smart move. The man has apologized, and I think that his apology should be graciously accepted. This time, at least.
I think it was incredibly bad form. But what else to we expect from the Republicans these days. They are not being assertive, they are being overly aggressive. There is a big difference there.
That type of idiotic way of handling oneself, only hurts the entire political party. Who wants to be on the hateful, and rude side. Not me, I just want to see a Republican party who is able to manage their behavior, and work for the American taxpayer and not themselves.
RKHenry just wrote a very interesting political commentary hub. It's called "I want you to own a gun!" It talks about how out of control the Republican party has gotten. It made me think and wonder about my own tactics. I don't want to be viewed the way other's view our "conservative" behavior. The Republican party is in pretty sad shape right now. And all this rudeness just makes me want to distant myself even further from it.
You can say the same for Democrats....You think that what Bill Clinton did, while he was in office okay? I don't....As a matter of fact, I was Democrat, and even voted Bill Clinton into office....Oh, don't get me wrong here...He's not the only President, I'm sure, who has had an affair while in office, but he blatantly lied about it!! He's the reason, I'm now Republican....And now, there are Republicans in Office who are doing the same thing....The Govenor, who has been asked to step down, and now a Senator.....Yep!! Both Parties need to be cleaned up.....The best way to do that, is start over....Impeach the Senate, and vote in all new Senators, ones that will be smart enough to keep their private lives, very private!!
Oh I know the same can be said for the Democrats. But you know, I don't really worry about their behavior! Like I don't worry about other peoples children's behavior. I worry about my own. The Republicans are in far worst shape than the Democrats right now. And outbursts like that of late, only help dig our hole a little deeper. I'm very concerned for the party. As I would be if my child acted so poorly.
Punished? In what way? He made a mistake, and he apologized...President Obama, pretty much said the same thing, whe he accepted his apology.......As a matter of fact his exact words were, "We all make mistakes."
I, too, think that an outburst was wrong....This is something that should have been done in private...He should have made the apology, but further punishment? No I don't think so...
I agree that the outburst was
not called for, especially in a joint session of congress,
with the entire congress listening.
This is yet again an example of the "right" wing
seeking to debunk Obama personally, and does not
address directly the issues of healthcare, but is
really just a smokescreen for the "rights" agenda.
Yes he should be punished and I'll tell you why. Mr. Wilson is an Officer in the National Guard and is therefore subject to the UCMJ which is the Uniform Code of Military Justice. This code applies to members of the military whether they are in uniform or not, even to members of congress. Mr. Wilson should receive at minimum an official reprimand for insubordination to the Commander and Chief of the United States Military. If this would have happened during the former administration, you can bet your butt that the offender would have been forced to resign their commission. If Mr. Wilson were not a member of the military I would have left it up to the Republican Leadership to deal with this, but that is not the case. He must be punished or precedence will be set that not only encourages public disrespect of superior officers in the military but of the office of the president by any member of the military. Mr. Wilson should have known this and restrained himself in public and submitted a formal protest through the proper channels instead of making a fool of himself, and disgracing his uniform on national television.
Sure he's an officer, but he's not acting in his official capacity as a member of the National Guard. In fact, I'd say his responsibilities as an elected legislator take precedence over his status as a Reserve Officer.
Get over yourself. Mr. Wilson's outburst in Congress is different from criticizing the President in his official capacity as an officer. Besides the very fact he was on the floor of Congress immunized him from arrest and detention. Putting on the uniform doesn't take your free speech rights away.
Get over myself? Sorry pal, that's the rules within the UCMJ, I didn't make them, I didn't write it, it's there for ALL members of the Military and Mr.Wilson should know them. He is subject to them whether in the uniform, or not....PERIOD. Learn about what you are talking about before shouting down people who know more about the subject matter than you do!
He's a civilian. He's not on active duty with the Guard. By your logic he'd be held to the standards of the USCMJ even if he was at home doing his day job. So if he gets a DUI, then he's to go before a military tribunal? Or the civilian justice system? Or maybe it's just that he had the courage to call the President out on a lie in front of Congress and the people of the US.
Listen, it isn't my logic; it is the REGULATIONS of the UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE! And yes, if he is convicted of a crime while not on duty it affects him on duty as it is a reflection of him as an officer and a gentlemen. That is the Fact hero. Some advice; if are to comment on the Military, you should take the time to learn something about it.
Actually this applies to any area of human activity, isn't it?
Um, he's not on active duty. That's what it means to be in the Guard. Heck that's what it means to be in the reserves. But since you brought it up, I believe it is another part of the UCMJ that one is not required, in fact it's a duty for soldier, seaman, airman or Marine that they not follow an unlawful order. In addition, the oath the military takes is to up hold the Constitution of the US. Now we have a Commander in Chief that is violating that document, the compact between the people and government of the US. What is the duty of the military in that sort of a situation. On the one hand, he's the President, on the other, an argument could be made that he's one of those domestic enemies of the Constitution that all those who serve in the military take an oath to fight against.
So not only was it Mr. Wilson's right to question the President, it was his duty. It's narrow legalistic viewpoints like yours, devoid of any ethics whatsoever, that destroy the honor of our brothers and sisters that serve.
Being on active duty has nothing to do with it; he is still in the National Guard and is still insubordinate to a superior. This is not a political issue; this is an issue of military justice. That's it, it's that simple. I would make the same argument even if this were a person from the other side of the isle. This man embarrassed himself, the National Guard of South Carolina and if left unpunished will have set a precedent for public insubordination of the entire U.S. Military. Once again you have proven that you have no idea what you are talking about and have once again shown the world that the folks that stump for the post 1964 Republican party will defend any crime committed by its members no matter the gravity of that crime. You have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that nothing you say can be taken as truth...thanks for playing. You lose!
Now you're squealing like a little schoolgirl. The entire US military is not going to crumble and start shooting each other because this is allowed to stand. He said "You lie" not "Rise up against our Glorious Leader, Obama". What about those generals who spoke out about the Iraq war? Don't you think that was deleterious to morale and discipline. Sure they waited until they were retired, but still, it's amazing that discipline didn't break down and the military just shatter. Like I said, get over yourself.
It is a shame that we are not having this conversation in person...truely.
You sir have proven you know nothing of the oath of service, the military, or of the rules which bind service members to the Constitution of the United States so you have resorted to personal attacks against someone that knows the law of our military. I should not be surprised though, you obviously have never served in the military which is par for the course for some 90% of the Wrong Wing fanatics that defend the former administration and hate the current one simply because the man is African, and worst of all...Progressive.
To the point:
I, (state your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me!
The above is the oath of service that all men and women in uniform to must give and obey. It is law, and it is a field grade offense to break it. For an officer, he/she can be, and should be forced to resign if they are found in violation of this oath and for an enlisted member a minimum of a Field Grade punishment is required.
The generals that spoke out against the war in Iraq were within their rights in support of this oath because they knew that they were lied too, and that war had nothing to do with the defense of the constitution (which thereby renders the war outside of the oath of service) which is why none of them were prosecuted or censured. Not to mention that to the man they spoke out after they tendered their resignations this means that they were no longer under restraint of the UCMJ. Mr. Wilson has not resigned his commission; therefore he is still bound by his oath of service. If this is allowed to stand no prosecutor who faces a defense attorney within the military justice system will be able to defend against this precedent which has been set by a Field Grade officer in front of both houses of congress and the nation. It is you sir, who should get over yourself since you once again have proven that you know nothing of the subject that you are commenting on. You are simply following along to the tune of the Rovian piper that is leading you and your ilk down the merry path of cowardice and fascism. You are an embarrassment to the nation, and I am ashamed that I spent most of my life defending people like you.
have they punished all the others that have called the president or a congress person a lier, past or present?
They are acting as if the "decorum" of the position has never been violated before. The guy apologized for his passionate and believed, outburst...what more does anyone want, get over it and move on.
That stuff happens in governments all over the world...doesn't make it right, doesn't make America look better than any other country (as i believe we should)...but it's not the end of the world because of it.
Yea he definitely stepped out of lline by shouting that. I seriously couldn't understand what he had said until I read what he shouted. And yes he should be punished. It was very rude to shout out like that.
(side note: LOVE you avatar pic Jezzzz I'm a huge lion fan
Ok, he was rude. Punished how? Was his comment accurate but simply inappropriate? Can anyone be sure? There is no law against being rude. Now there are standards of decorum for the house and senate but I doubt they would have any serious consequences. I mean after all Charlie Rangle of the Ways and Means committee keeps forgetting to pay his taxes. Isn't that a little more serious. Wilson is going to pay for what he did without any official punishment. His constituentcy will be on his case. He's going to have to run around apologizing for something he's probally really not sorry for. His party will have nothing to do with him for a while. He's basically persona non grata until someone else screws up, and believe me someone will! Bottom line is that there are a plenty of folks on the hill that need to be removed. Both sides of the ailse. November 2010 should get these clowns attention!
I think the whole punishment thing is ridiculous. But there are limitations when your paycheck comes from a group of American people. We are supposed to be united, not hate filled, spiteful terrorists. And that is exactly how he behaved.
Absolutely he acted like a terrorist! Speech is considered a terrorist act now? I am glad the Democrats are in charge now, if they can change the definition of a word like terrorist next it will be FREEDOM!
Speech isn't considered a terrorist act. Is that what you honestly think? My god, what if the tables were turned?
Now that's typical. He acted like an out of control mad man. And we are all suppose to respect him for that now? Especially because he was a Republican, and that somehow excuses his behavior?
I don't buy that...
He is being punished, in the form of monies being donated to his opponent by voters who were disgusted by his behavior. The poor man obviously suffers from foot-in-mouth disease.
That was very tackey and unprofessional, if he felt he couldn't control himself he should have stayed home or stayed seated.
I think it was refreshing. And I don't think he should apologize. Of course I love watching the Prime Minister Question and Answers in the British Parliament. And I think the US would be better of if all the presidents had to show up once a week to answer to our representatives and take some heat.
Obama was giving a highly politicized speech and a little heckling was in order. Yes I support Obama, but I don't think the other side should be muzzled either. I also enjoyed the way some of the republicans held up their bills and signs.
Debate and argument is not unhealthy nor do I think it is disrespectful. Obama is a big boy and he can deal with it.
And was there some female dress code where they were all supposed to wear red? Most did.
I didn't even notice the sea of red. huh...maybe they sent out a memo saying wear red?
You are refreshing! I wish all of Obama's supporters were as open to the other side
You have to understand that I live under a open New England Town Meeting form of government. Any registered voter can go to town meeting ask any question pertaining to a warrant article and expect an answer. And then the people vote. We are the legislative body. So I am used to a very rough and tumble political process.
And if you want an article discussed at town meeting, you and 9 other people have to sign a petition and the Selectmen must include it in the town meeting warrant. It is the purest form of democracy anywhere in the world.
I get very frustrated when Pols call their public appearances town meetings.
Hi Hoxie, I love how you think. No wonder you are an Obama supporter! Your mind is too large to fit inside the Palin camp! All kidding aside. I, too, am a firm supporter of the 1st amendment. Like you, I do not think that the opposition should ever be muzzled. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If we Democrats do it to them, they will, in turn, do it to us. And rightly so.
This kind of behavior is inappropriate for a speech. If this were a debate, or a town hall meeting, or any sort of situation where comments are welcome it would be a different story. This type of behavior at a speech is not acceptable. He should be asked to resign (not really, but that's what conservatives would have asked of a liberal congressman who did that to bush).
I admit that I voted for Obama and was, mind you, an very early supporter of his. And to all you Obama haters here at Hubpages, yes, I still support him. Notwithstanding that, my only fear is that he doesn't go too far right on international affairs and too left on domestics ones. That said, I do not follow him blindly. Afterall, this is the United States of America. We are used to disrespecting our Presidents. Has the 1st Amendment become obsolete since Obama assumed the Presidency? All I have to say is this: That it is far better to have been shouted at than to have a shoe hurled your way!
Funny about the dress code. I noticed that, too!
I don't think that was the venue for heckling. If the guy has a beef, there are ample avenues for him to go through to make that known. The outrage is from the people and other congress members (both Republican and Democrat). Obama himself seemed quite unscathed and immediately accepted the guy's apology. You're right, he will be just fine.
I personally am glad he did it because it highlighted the fact that many of the 'arguments' against the reform are nothing short of lies. There is nothing that would lead anyone who doesn't just have a pre-existing vendetta to think that illegal aliens would be covered by gov't healthcare. In fact, the currently proposed bill states explicitly that it won't. Wilson made himself and his "cause" (ie insurance company who pays for his seat, yep I said it) look rather sad and ignorant of facts.
Re: the Parliament Q&A thing: not a bad idea at all!
I don't think he should be asked to step down. The electorate will decide that next year.
I believe it was wrong because it was in Congress. A certain amount of respect for the office and the venue is to be expected. I'm sure Roberts Rules of Order does not support what he did.
I do agree I like watching clips of Canadian Parliament with people yelling at each other. However, if they go over the line they are censured or ousted from the chambers. I have no doubt if Mr. Wilson had done that in Canadian Parliament he would have been booted out. I'm sure it would be the same in British Parliament.
I don't think Obama's "opposition" should be muzzled either; but I think a little decorum under the circumstances helps keep the "atmosphere" from being a circus. People who yell out in court run the risk of being kicked out (at the very least). This wasn't a run-of-the-mill, day-to-day, Congress thing.
Decorum and respect for the office aside, (to use that old "Mother's Question"), "What if EVERYONE did that?" It wasn't the time or the place.
Joe Wilson shouldn't have heckled the President and it was wrong. Obama was talking and he should be given the space to say what he wants to say and the respect accorded as POTUS, even if you don't agree with him, which I don't. That being said, Wilson has already apologized for his outburst. That's enough for me. He shouldn't be hounded out and all this false outrage is stupid.
A Texan, Don't go thinking I'm that wonderful. I do support everything Obama wants including a public option for health insurance. But I've never been afraid of an open process in my life.
I stood for election the first time at 25. And I worked as a town/environmental planner for 10 years, so I spent plenty of time in front of angry people.
But I rarely ever lost. And zoning bylaws and environmental regs require a 2/3 vote in Massachusetts. Generally I got every developer and every builder and ever real estate agent to support my bills - as well as the environmentalists. And I did it by giving everyone a true voice at the table.
I'm not trying to suck up, I stand against everything Obama is for and won't shy away from it! But honesty is more important than continuous lies, like I'm not who I claim to be! (meant for blueduck if he is reading) Thats all I was saying is it is refreshing
Isn't Massachusetts socialist anyway? If they didn't agree couldn't you have them sent to a gulag in New Hampshire?
There is a time to stand up and speak up and there is a time to be respectful and keep quiet.
What Wilson did was totally disrespectful to the entire legislative body that was present, whether Republican, Democrat or other affiliation.
It was disrespectful to the office of the Presidency. It was disrespectful to the citizens of this country. And it was on nationally broadcast Television!
It showed his character and I see his unwillingness to be bipartisan. Also disrespectful was the other groups of Republicans that would sit there using their blackberries, holding signs, posters and with obvious no respect for the night events.
What a great example these people were setting for those watching. When the nation should come together to work out a solution to a real problem, they choose instead to act like spoiled children. "It's my way or I want play."
Shame on you Congressman Wilson. Why would anyone respect your voice if you do not respect anothers?
They have been shut out of the process and Obama told them to shut up and you want them to respect him? Whether it was appropriate or not is something he will have to deal with. I am no Bush fan but he was shown just as much disrespect as Obama is getting! Actually Bush endured a lot more disrespect and I never saw one liberal stand up for him, not a single one!
They have not been shut out, Obama has bent over backwards trying to get a compromise. No one ever yelled at Bush during a speech in front of Congress...that is the difference...
Bent over backwards? I must have missed that one, he hasn't even acknowledged the American people who are a majority against it except to send his attack dogs to call us Nazi's! He doesn't even need the Republicans to pass whatever he wants, the fight is within his own party!
I thought it was people calling them Nazis not the other way around?
Seems the only people I hear using the words like Nazi's, Communists, Socialists and the likes are Those Against Obama.
This health issue is not about Obama!!! It is about the abuse of the Insurance and Health industry with costs and overcharge/denial of treatments.
Then you are not listening, we have been called Terrorists also, we disagree about the public option for health care not the real reform thats needed! Open up across State line trade and create real competition. As far as Illegals getting care they will, the Republicans introduced an amendment preventing illegal immigrants getting care and the Dems voted it Down! Same with Abortion, so do you really think Obama is telling the truth?
The Democrats have guaranteed abortion. California Democrat Zoe Lofgren admitted in a town hall meeting this month that "abortion will be covered by one or more of the health care plans available to Americans."
Even the Associated Press wrote that ObamaCare "would allow a new government-sponsored insurance plan to cover abortions."
Democrats in the House and Senate have voted down every attempt to make sure abortion funding is kept out of the health care proposal.
It was an outburst. Obama lied so much during that speech that Wilson couldn't stop himself.
If he spoke of so many lies, could someone state the lies one by one so we can discuss them. What is everyone so afraid of with health care reform. Are they afraid of losing their own health care? Are they afraid that they have to pay more out of pocket money? Or is it that they don't want the Government to spend any more money?
And if the problem is that we don't want the Government to spend any more money, where were all of these critiques when Bush was in office.
I think it is deeper than just the money aspect. If it were about money then we as a country would have had outrage during the Bush era.
That's what politics has come to in this country. Yesterday a girl posted an article with the same false claim that Wilson made - that illegal immigrants will be covered under Obamacare - to a LiveJournal Community I watch.
It was almost immediately debunked and she proceeded to edit her post with the following comment: "I can't answer all of you individually. I now see that this article is in fact WRONG.I really wanted to believe Obama is a liar."
That right there is everything that is wrong with politics in this country right now. Wanting Obama to be wrong so badly that you're willing to believe anyone who says he is wrong without investigating the facts for yourself. The Democrats fell into the same trap under Bush; the Republicans are falling into it now.
Like I said before.. It is not the issue of health care that everyone is so unset about. It is Obama period (I am trying not to say what I think is the real reason).. I believe that his message is clear but people just don't want to support a "bl" man. I am sorry, but I have to lay it on the line.
We still have a long way to go here in America to bring together the racial divide.
You don't seem to be prepared for a black president.
No, you miss understood my comments. I am a black man and I am and have been very prepared for a Black President for years or any good President. Black, white, Latino, etc.. it does not matter to me. I just want a President that is looking out for the public, not his own pockets.
I voted for Obama and I believe he is doing a great job. Especially, with all the opposition that has lined up to try to stop him.
After 8 years of Bush politics I just want someone who wants to help America. Not make us all look stupid.
Doesn't matter to me what color your skin is. When you play the race card, I wonder if you are ready for the way that politics are played at the national level. Bush was portrayed as a moron, drug addict, draft dodger, inept bumbling fool. No one claimed it was because he was white. Obama is getting kid glove treatment in the mainstream press (not to be confused with political commentators) as he suffers political attacks from the right. That's par for the course. It don't matter what he looks like. He's implementing socialist policies and people are howling.
If it makes you feel better, I think Bush started us down this road with No Child left Behind, Free Drugs for Seniors, and his lame bailout plans. His fiscal policies were a disaster and I was glad to see him go. I have a GW sticker on my car because 8 years ago I thought he would be a huge improvement over Clinton.
Now I vote Libertarian.
What has he done so far that is a "great job"?
The speech to school kids was well done. A lot of kids need to hear it from someone other than their principal and teachers. The message obviously isn't sinking in through those channels.
1. Gotten us back on a even plan in international politics.
2. Working to get our children to look at school as a good thing.
3. Even though people may say that he did the wrong thing with the car industry, giving money to them has helped. If he didn't these companies, except for Ford, may not exist right now.
4. The verdict is still out for the banks. Banks are always going to be sleazy in how they deal with money. They find loop holes when everyone thinks their are not loop holes.
I agree that our national deficit is to high, but at least this administration is trying to tackle issues that have been a problem for a while that have been ignored.
If that's what you call denigrating our nation before the world...
He's not "working" at anything, he gave a speech. So did Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, ...
It's this kind of government takeover of private industry that invites all the talk of socialism that the libs get so upset about.
The govt didn't take the auto industry over. They bailed some of its biggest pillars out, which is nothing new at all. I know you are familiar with history, tk.
Agree with you in part, Kerry. But I've got to say, the more research I did on Bush...on McCain...on almost any Republican, the more cynical and disillusioned I became. From what I understand and can perceive, there are strong and clear reasons why Obama is in the White House and the Republicans are gasping to survive.
I really don't think people who are reasonable should or could 'give equal time' to the other side at this point in history.
I was in New York City on 9/11/01, Nicomp. Knew people who died. Went to work past a burnt out hole for months. Lost my job because of it.
Your comments are ridiculous and irrelevant...as usual.
Wow, you were nearby and that somehow qualifies you? cool.
Have you by chance noticed what's not happened since then? Under Bush?
Troll someone else for some other reason. Your post is inhumane, cynical, highly partisan and very "uncool."
How fitting you are a neocon.
Elementary critical thinking dictates that you cannot prove why something didn't happen or whether it would have under someone else.
Wilson was out of line to display his emotions in public. However, he is simply expressing what 52% of the American people are saying. The healthcare bill is full of garbage and Bama Boy has the gall to say it isn't going to add more to the deficit. He is also reported as saying the money has to come from somewhere....
Watch what Bama Boy does and not what he says then we'll learn the truth.
In case you don't know...calling a black adult male "boy" is considered a racist remark by many people.
Do we have to tip-toe around everything? When will the threat of racism stop? Rev. Sharpton said blacks couldn't be racist because they don't have the power. Well they have it now! So if I understand this that means white people can't be racist now only blacks can. Or how about we get over this crap and act like Americans?
Sometimes I'm not too proud of how WE Americans act. I suppose you are an example of how we all should act?
Randy I sometimes refer to him the same way I don't mean it the way it comes across I'm sure BJC doesn't either!
I certainly hope you are right Tex. I guess it irks me because I've witnessed old black men being called "boy" on many occasions by otherwise respectable people down here in the "Bible Belt."
I hope I am too, that doesn't happen where I'm fromor at least I have never seen it. Hell I thought my name was boy until I was 12!
I'm not from the South and quite frankly pretty darn tired of people taking things out of context. A man is someone who has the balls to speak the truth - period! A boy has to lie and sneak around. Again, watch what he does and not what he says.
No, I'm not. This racial division has got to stop on both sides.
Joe Wilson was on Sean Hannity Radio Show today. He said he immediately phoned the White House, after the speech, and apologized for his unaccepatable behavior. They acknowledged his apology and welcomed him to discuss the issue further, which I believe he accepted.
Still Laughing....arguing about who is telling the truth and who is lying in Washington.
A better argument might be trying to find out if the sun is warm or warmish.
Bad manners possible, but you respect the office not the man and as far as I can tell this man doesn't respect the office just covets the chair.
Ha ha ha....I'm going with warmish
As a person who often speaks before thinking, I think Wilson's actions are forgivable...who among us hasn't spoken out in anger and said something they later regretted? He's getting enough bad publicity as is...
That is because it is the right wing protesters that are calling Obama's people Nazis, not the other way around.
I see what you mean, no its both I guess calling each other Nazis, but his attack dogs the leading Senator and Speaker of the House have called us Nazi's they only do that with Obama's blessing!
"People are Policy", is a quote from the Obama adminstration, and where their people, their backgrounds and philosophies are certainly questionable wouldn't you imagine their motives, policies and agenda are suspect?
Well, I don't think either side are Nazis...
Yes...they don't speak unless the President tells them what to say
That all depends on your own philosophy I would imagine.
I don't think referring to BO as "Bama Boy" is any worse than called W "Georgie Boy." I don't think the posters meant it as a racial remark.
Randy, I'm not including you in this group, but I'm tired of the group who labels anyone who disagrees with the POTUS as racist. It's beinning to get a little absurd.
Michael Steele and Thomas Sowell disagree with Obama about 90% of the time. Are they racists, too?
Like Tex, I have been called boy on more than one occasion, when I was a boy. But to a black person this is an insult because of the way the word was used in the past. But use it if it makes you feel better. If there were no other non-racist insults which could be used instead, I might understand.
Not coming from the South I obviously don't see it that way and it's easier for me to speak my mind because I'm not a local.
The following hubs should give you an indication of my stance on racism. Just for the record tho, Michelle Obama wrote an anti-white paper in college.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Racism-learned- … t-behavior
For the record I'm not from the South, I'm from Texas! Its a whole other Country!
I will just assume you do not care if your words appear racist. No, you are not a local but now you know this is considered a racist remark, so use it if you feel you need to.
If you choose to be offended, go ahead. That's part of the problem, people being afraid to say something because someone will be offended. This is not the same as being considerate toward others. I will call him bama boy because he is a liar and that makes him a boy. A man speaks the truth.
I have been with black friends in Mississippi and people stared and whispered, and stayed away from us. Her son went to a college in Mississippi and experienced the worst racism ever - like almost being run over, people going up to him in Walmart and calling him things far worse than boy.
People like you and the above mentioned white people are why racism still exists.
BJC, you're on your own, Randy has said what he has to say about it and I don't think you are getting his point.
I do not know how to go about "choosing to be offended." Either things offend me or they don't, I do not choose. The problem is not people being afraid to say something because others will be offended, it's saying something when they KNOW others will be offended. Do you pretend not to know the word "boy" isn't a racist word to a black man? To me, this is hard to believe. But you seem to enjoy using the word so by all means, knock yourself out. LOL
I'm in Canada and I understand how boy is deemed offensive to some. But I am not saying you are racist.
And Michelle Obama's thesis was not "anti-white". She talked about her own feelings and those of black alumni about how they felt as students. You can read it here:
Abortion is legal in the United States, I doubt they could deny it without congress, et al. changing the laws.
Abortion is legal, but tax dollars shouldn't pay for it.
Boy, thats something we should be proud of the world record for killing babies. And of course whether you agree or not we'll have to pay for it, just lovely, now all our hands are going to be covered in the blood of babies!Makes you proud!
Here's the deal with abortion, if the final bill does not expressly forbid it then it is just another medical procedure that taxes pay for! I am not an abortion nut, it is legal I just don't want my tax dollars funding them!
But, you are asking that they deny health care to people. I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
I agree. It was a stupid thing for Wilson to do. Even if you don't care for Obama, you should respect the office. I was shocked to hear the remark! I felt sure some nutty protester had somehow gained entrance to the speech, like the ones at the RNC. Boy, (oops, sorry) I mean man, was I surprised to find out it was a congressman! Glad it wasn't one from Georgia.
He was right, but that was surely NOT the time and place for it.
Would you kindly explain how on earth he was right? The proposal explicitly states that illegal aliens will NOT be covered. The "lie" is....?
What proposal states that?
The truth is easier than the lie, The republicans offered amendments to the bill to exclude illegals from receiving health care benefits, the democrats voted the amendment down! Why? So they will be covered. There is no final bill yet but with the Democrats not willing to deny the benefit to illegals then they probably intend to give it to them!
This contradicts what I have seen, but I am certainly no all-knowing chick and perhaps I am wrong. I believe, though, that the amendments/provisions were not necessary simply because the bill already excludes them from getting said coverage.
Because he knows damn well that illegal aliens will continue to recieve care - and be a drain on hospital resources as well as the economy as a whole - under any plan.
If that is the case, how should he or our lawmakers solve it. Should we just not have health care reform and keep the system the way it is now. Even if we kept it the same, we are still going to be paying for illegal aliens through our emergency rooms and with tax payer dollars. How do we solve this? How should we proceed?
Maybe we should figure that out (aside from the obvious answer) before making grand claims that are known to be untrue?
Nah. The Liberals/Progressives/Democrats mean well. Whatever they do, it'll be OK because they just want what's best for us.
Transparency? Nah. No ear marks on spending bills? Sorry.
But they do mean well!
Why are all of us arguing we should bring in Healthcare reform and concern ourselves with the little things later, right now many Americans are in dire need of healthcare and many have been turned away from proper care and have mounting bills from pre-existing conditions is this what America stands for? Illegal aliens is tiny compared to the millions of Americans who are suffering. Working in ER there are some who pay for healthcare (Cash) or honestly make payments to re-pay there medical expenses (illegal aliens) everyone needs healthcare and we cannot allow anyone to lay dying on the streets that is not what we as Americans are made of. I have stopped at several accidents in my lifetime until care came and I did not think of them as another person, they were a life that had to be saved so our Government needs to look at the big picture and stop acting like 3rd graders fighting over a football even children are better behaved then this. Just my opinion.
And we don't. That is empty hyperbole.
And if you think illegal immigration is "tiny" or unrelated to the problems with health care you are not paying attention.
I love your response!! hyperbole.
As for illegal immigration I have been paying attention and it annoys me to but the focus does need to be on all Americans who currently are not being provided for or cannot afford proper care, if we continue to run amuck with our fingers up our batooties then we will accomplish nothing and Americans will continue to suffer.
You haven't noticed the effect it has had on emergency rooms across the nation? You haven't noticed some hospitals near the southern border just closing up shop completely forcing US citizens to travel for hours to get to the nearest hospital?
Oh my goodness we are so short staffed I haven't taken the time to notice, yes I have noticed but I do not have hate or dislike for people. This nation is the cause and effect to what has happened and I have also noticed Americans crossing the borders for healthcare because it was to costly for them here in the U.S. or they were denied coverage by there provider. Doctors are referring our Americans out due to costs to me it is a Catch 22 damn if you do and damn if you don't. The speech did not say people who have current health coverage would lose it. It said that they would make health coverage more affordable for those who do not have it so there will be no excuses and if they still could not afford it there would be some type of assistance from the government but the details had not yet been all ironed out. There is always going to be pros and cons about any topic based on what I see we need healthcare reform entitling those who have coverage to be covered and not be denied for pre-existing conditions or leaving thousands of dollars worth of bills to the families. Our government needs to put there footdown on Insurance companies because enough is enough!
My husband is going through chemo and a very large company that we are insured by has stuck us so far with a bill for $125,120.53 yup another debt and it isn't over. So on top of being a one income household currently and paying our current responsibilites I now have a mounting medical debt is that fair to millions of Americans? Our cushion no longer exists and what about the others without healthcare? They certainly do need it, so they need to get off of there bums and get it passed or maybe we as Americans should take there salaries and apply toward our bills how do you think they would feel? What if it happened to them? Sorry for venting but adults playing football on our dimes irritates the bejeebers out of me!
What do you think will happen if the ins companies those people currently have go out of business? Obama damn well knows.
At least one bill currently under consideration (there are three, and that doesn't count Obama's vision as he spelled out in his speech) mandates companies with more than 50 employees provide health insurance. Companies with less than 50 employees will not be legally required to provide health insurance.
Those companies will dump their current plan and put their employees on the 'free' public option.
No insurance company can compete with free. Could a car company compete with free government cars?
' Free public' option is fine with me for small businesses , look at how many large companies recieved tremendous tax breaks? our Country has given the banks billions of dollars, bailed out vehicle companies and has yet to help there people I think it is time if we as a taxpayer have to pay we should pay for our fellow Americans who are entitled to health care. There are so many insurance companies and so many of us pay premiums that at this point in our Country something needs to be done. We are sitting around twittling our thumbs watching the rich grow richer and the poor become poorer, we the middle class is what used to keep the economy strong we are now chopped liver in a melting economy.
If they become legitimate entities instead of the scam-artists they are now, they won't go out of business. They will obviously have to make dramatic adjustments. They can easily still profit, just not so much - and they will be forced to have some responsibility to the people who have helped them to earn all that money. As it is now, they drop you like a hot potato the second they find any hint of a reason to do so (they spend most of their budget paying claims investigators to dig up reasons to cancel people's coverage when they become sick. That is wrong.) Kind of like when anti-trust laws came into effect...should we have just allowed singular companies to dominate the market and use their position to take advantage of Americans? Situations like this - where these insurance companies have gotten waaaay out of line- is where government should step in (no, not take over) and break it up a bit.
They are very legitimate. Insurance companies are regulated at the state and federal level as much as any other private industry. The profit margin of a typical insurance company is well below the profit margin of GE, IBM, or Exxon.
You seem to have a very low opinion of all the hard working people employed by the insurance industry. You aren't simply blaming the CEOs, can you? It takes many thousands of loyal employees to implement procedures and policy. If you attack an insurance company, you are indicting everyone who works there.
No, and again this was covered in the speech, insurance companies employ millions of hard-working Americans and I most certainly don't hold a low opinion of them as you say. I have family members in the insurance industry. I'm not a dullard - I understand how it works.
That said, I can't say with a straight face that the insurance lobby hasn't gotten way out of hand (agreed, other companies do the same - esp big oil who also give our supposed public servants all kinds of payoffs to keep their margins so high). Do you really think that these companies (as a whole, I am not attacking any or all of their employees) act ethically?
If you do, I suppose that we must just agree to disagree.
p.s. How am I "indicting" them???
There are rules and Joe Wilson over-stepped his boundaries
http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Educ … .aspx?ID=5
Defaming or degrading the House
Criticism of the Speaker’s personal conduct
Impugning the motives of another Member
Charging falsehood or deception
Claiming lack of intelligence or knowledge
References to race, creed, or prejudice
Charges related to loyalty or patriotism so although we are debating he also has rules to live by and he took an oath so I do agree they certainly will not go out of business wasn't the question pertaining to Joe Wilson and his outcry? How all of us evolved and created a full blown debate about helath care reform is amazing. Yes he should be punished for what he did!
Sounds like the same rules as Canadian Parliament... and I'm assuming other parliaments. Of course, in other places they often get into fist fights
It is so funny but little boys sometimes never grow up!
Canadian citizens must abide by rules or they get thrown in jail, American citizens must abide by rules or we are thrown in jail, Congressman do not abide by the rules they act like an 8-year old running stomping there feet my perception of Mr. Wilson he was bullied as a child and now he believes he can bully back. lolololo
I believe he should abide by house rules and should apologize on the floor.
I think he should do exactly what he is supposed to do, I just don't know what that is. If their are rules in place for instances like this then he should follow those rules.
Not defending Joe Wilson, but if you want an example of bullying, you need to watch Nancy Pelosi and her strong arm tactics. How about Rahm Emanuel and his? If Wilson is a bully he is a piker compared to those that have been in D.C. longer than him. Just sayin.
NO details have been "ironed out" yet. That's why he spoke in vague generalisms.
Put 'their' foot down on them and crush them. Chavez must be so proud of his new protege.
The effort to trash the entire system is where we differ. Certainly we don't want to see anyone left to die on the street, but the proposed 'reforms' tend to toss out the baby with the bathwater. Many many millions of people like their health care.
Exactly so. If the dems had more brains than ambition they would have systematically addressed different aspects of health care through a series of laws that they could have passed without great public opposition instead of insisting on some Great Leap Forward nonsense that could be expected to meet resistance from those pesky citizens of the country these arrogant, over-reaching fools are supposed to work for.
Respectfully, nc, did you watch AND LISTEN to the speech? He told both sides that any extreme overhaul would be detrimental and is not even an option. He said that we should keep what works and build on it, fix what doesn't, and introduce some sound new ideas - several of which were proposed by republicans.
Simply put, he was lying to you. I am sorry, but there's no other way to explain it.
He wants to tax/fine people (at a 35% rate) if their private plan costs too much.
He wants to tax/fine people if they don't have insurance.
He wants the country to eventually move to a single-payer plan.
He wants government bureaucrats to decide who gets treatment, not doctors.
He does not plan to include himself or any other federal employee in this new public option. None of the bills currently in Congress will include federal employees.
There is no tort reform in any of the current bills
Have you watched the News lately....A Bill is going to be passed soon....A $3,000 fine for those who do not get the insurance.....And the way the economy is, there are far more homeless people now...How will they be able to pay? Low income people, how will they be able to pay?
Extended insurance will be given to the younger people...The Senior Citizens are out of luck....You'll have to have this insurance even if you're drawing Medicaid (Social Security)....How will they be able to pay? The normal increases given every year have been frozen....I know, because we are on Social Security (retired).
They say you'll have your choice of Dr.'s, Hospitals, etc. But will we? I doubt it....
This is just like the Clunker deal....Get a new car, and save $4,700 on trade in....Nice savings right? Wrong!! Darned if you don't have to pay taxes on the car, at the full price rate!!
You will be forced to pay for insurance if you already qualify for medicaid? Who told you that? It doesn't even make sense.
So, you think Cash for Clunkers was bad because you have to pay taxes on the full price of the car (and this is IF you CHOSE to participate)....mmmkay.
Basically, you think he's lying about getting to choose your own doctor.. evidence to support this?
Respectfully, my grandmother is also on Medicaid so don't think I'm totally out of touch with the health care situation as it pertains to seniors. They should most certainly not be punished or penalized after years of hard work. I don't recall hearing that they will be.
All I would say is that I'd like to see where the facts to back up that assertion are.
Good one! Let's try it another way. Show me where I got these facts and then refute them.
Show You where You got Your facts? Huh??? You don't work for the IRS do you, nicomp??
That's not how it works, nicomp, and I've seen you use this tactic several times. If you say something is fact, it falls on YOU to cite sources. It is ludicrous to claim that the burden of proof falls on someone other than the person who makes the statements in the first place.
I could not agree more! Very well put. Maddie you do have a way with words.
Nice way to make then actually read something.
Where is the information regarding his 'plan' to eventually have us in a single-payer system? I've not seen any indication of this, other than pundits saying that's what he'll do.
The one part I personally take issue with is being forced to carry insurance. However, that seems like it would appeal to the conservative sensibilities - that they don't want taxpayer money picking up anyone else's tab.
I have got to re-iterate that if you like your plan, you can keep it. If that is what it says on the bill, how are we gathering that he is lying about it?
Can you provide a link to that information? Or is that your perception based on talk shows and speeches. That was clearly not mentioned in the speech. Where do you get the % are you a Congressman in cognito or the gentleman who acted the fool? lololo just kidding!! seriously where are you getting this from?
Thanks, AE. Your opinion carries the weight of your experience.
Just remember, AE, you can't comment on 9/11 unless you were there.
I lost friends on 09/11 you should read my tribute Remember 09/11 eight years later so please do not say I wasn't there in fact I also dealt with my friend who's brother worked at the Pentagon. So was I there in person no, did I lose friends Yes!
I wonder how many of the 'outraged' here were similarly upset on Feb. 5, 2005 when President Bush was addressing Congress and was booed by not one but many of the dems in attendance.
I wonder how many took Harry Reid to task when he called President Bush "a liar and a loser"? No apology followed those words.
I bet LS wrote many a scathing Hub about those wascally dems
He didn't say it during a speech to congress. Also, there are plenty of politicians out there calling the President all kinds of nasty names, and not apologizing. (Not saying they should - I'm all for free speech as well. Just pointing out that this is not a reasonable comparison.)
(Been listening to the all-knowing Hannity, eh?)
I thought it was terrible when Reid did that. Please, someone tell me: How do Reid and Pelosi keep getting re-elected??
The same reason shows like Jerry Springer are on the air.
The following comes from factcheck.org, and granted, there are probably other articles that would contradict this. This is supposedly a non partisan group (factcheck.org). What is your take on this? Is it that they will be given emergency care that bothers you or do you feel that this provision will be conveniently left out of the final version? (BTW, as I'm sure you know, if hospitals did not provide life-saving care to someone (even an illegal immigrant) who came through their doors in need of it, the Hypocratic oath may as well be shat upon if you'll excuse my saying so.)
"Rep. King of Iowa issued an eye-catching press release, headlined: “CBO: 5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare.” King claimed that this is what the Congressional Budget Office’s recent analysis of House health care legislation said. But it didn’t. His press release also said that the 5.6 million would be covered “in large part because the liberal proposal does not include any requirements to verify the citizenship or immigration status of those receiving taxpayer-funded health benefits.” That’s not true, either.
H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
The preceding section reiterates this, stating that “the term ‘affordable credit eligible individual’ means … an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States.” In other words, no federal subsidies for you if you’re in the country illegally. Besides, illegal immigrants aren’t eligible for federal health programs under current law. (Tax dollars do, however, cover emergency care.)"
I will look at the bill tomorrow, I don't know whats in it, all I know is it will be expensive and illegals will get care, they already do under Medicaid!
I saw something about providing funding for translators? I'm too tired to care right now I will get back to this later!
It is...possible that the whole thing was contrived. What if some of Joe Wilson's colleagues on the Democrat side of the aisle approached Mr. Wilson. He would shout out 'you lie' at the appropriate moment. And, in return, he would get a majority vote on one of his pet projects.
After all, the Democrats want and need to be together on this healthcare bill. And, Mr. Wilson's act during the President's speech has done just what had been hoped would happen. An absolute fire storm has erupted. And, it has brought the Democrats in both Houses of Congress together.
I was going to provide a checklist:
1. Must leave to do laundry
2. Must leave to help boyfriend with computer / writing / house repairs
3. Must leave to get back to work, earn a living, yada yada yada
4. Must leave, far to busy to condescend to anyone who disagrees with me.
I always condescend to those I feel are not worth my time, correct. I consider it a good habit.
And, correct!...I must go to work. You have fun picking the digital wings off flies like a big boy...er, whatever.
So... you chose option #3, correct?
For those keeping score at home, LS will continue to lurk and spew condescending vitriol even though he claims to be too busy to do so. Stay tuned!
Why, yes, Nicomp. I have a job. I have a life. Isn't THAT amazing? I'm sure it is to some.
And as I said before, please quit being so interested in my schedule and whether or not I CHOOSE to participate in the political forum. The initial post, ie, was not to you. I was here before you were, as well. And none of this is your concern.
All you do is troll. If not me, then others, all day long. And I am supposed to be impressed? Give me a reason NOT to condescend. I've never seen it.
I'm glad you have a job. I don't want to have to support you. Your leap of logic is illogical. No one claimed, implied, or insinuated that you didn't have a job. Strawman.
You generate the interest in your schedule by constantly telling us all why you absolutely must leave the forum. No one else does that. I am simply cataloging your motivations for 'leaving'.
If your schedule is a sore point, stop bringing it up.
Nah. I just speak my mind. As you said before, partisan comments are all well and good if you agree with them. Otherwise it's trolling.
A reason? Some people actually try to find common ground, to address points brought up by others, to explain their thinking, to defend their points, to synthesize new ideas, to climb the pyramid of Blooms Taxonomy. Short of that, spewing condescending pablum is always another option, I guess.
Strawman argument about my SCHEDULE? This job crap? You are a nut.
I'm not interested in finding 'common ground' with a trolling nut, who spatters irrelevant comments towards every liberal and thinks THAT is debate. Which is your MO. My comments were referencing Kerry, a person worth talking to. I was not and am not interested in your 'stuff,' sorry. I consider you unreasonable, period. As well, I think you are quite old enough to know what you are doing. Sorry, but it is not cute in any way, shape or form past a certain age...though Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh might have you all thinking otherwise. I just see bellicose, unattractive nuts.
Leave off your analysis of my 'motivations.' I have spelled out my motivations again and again... ie, see para above.
But hey, "to synthesize new ideas, to climb the pyramid of Blooms Taxonomy. Short of that, spewing condescending pablum is always another option, I guess," sounded kinda intelligent, I guess. I suppose I should be impressed. To bad it's empty vocabulary words surrounding bombed out and over-simplified vitriol.
Wow, great once sided debate. The person with the fewest word wins.
oh dear. i just had a very bad visual brought on by "Rush Limbaugh" and "bellicose, unattractive nuts". i hope it passes quickly
He should not be punished. If I recall correctly it was only a couple of years ago when the Democrats did the exact same thing to President Bush. What is the difference between the Democrats doing this and the Republicans? I think nothing at all. So why should he have to apologize?
I don't remember me having a particular take on racism, but sure. At least your post gives me an ability to call exactly what you are doing from now on, when needed
Oh, completely off-top, since you trade forex. If I were you, I would start looking for opportunities to short EUR/USD, my analysis shows the next big move is likely down, and it is about to start.
Yah, and I STILL didn't like your take on 'racism,' Misha, sorry, . That's all that means...and I would condescend to anyone with something I really, really don't agree with.
I've only begun to start with Forex. So, I'll consider that info. when I get more into it. Thank you.
Replaying to OP
The man in question is just another example of why there are far too many politicians period!
He and Governor Sanford can just take one looooooong extended unpaid holiday
Keep repeating it in all the forums. Stay on point...
We don't have the money to buy free health insurance for everyone.
Medicare and Medicaid are broke already. They are not sustainable.
The powers of the Federal Government are narrow and well-defined. Federal Government interference in health care is unconstitutional. Regardless of what Europe does, or Canada does, or Australia does, the US Constitution prohibits the Federal Government from getting involved in any aspect of health care or health insurance.
If health care is so important, let's pass a constitutional amendment enabling the Federal Government to control it.
Insurance companies are not going to go out of business. Insurance companies do very well in Canada and the UK. Insurance companies have home insurance, auto insurance, flood insurance, fire insurance, etc. in addition to health insurance.
I'm off for now. While I may strongly disagree with some of you, I am grateful beyond words to live in a country where we are allowed to debate, yell, throw shoes - whatever - without fear of being punished for it.
We are all one.
Peace & Love, ya'all.
See ya later.
But I did not say free speech was a terrorist, YOU did.
Nothing idiotic about that statement.... please, yawn.
Sure is that your spin? I read somewhere you were the best debater on Hubpages, but in reality when your lame assertions are challenged you don't allow the comments! Thats not debate that's the white flag of surrender! You bore me
Yeah, you are not kidding, RK. (Good to see you back, btw, .) It's gotten really weird here with the uh, strange Glen Beck trolls. Scary dumb.
Not interested in 'debate' with him, Ma'am. Was simply responding to the crazy accusations. Had to leave for work about 10 hours ago. I know...so hard to believe, and seems to be of major interest to the trolls.
Here is an interesting take on this incident
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 … latestnews
It would indicate that some black people want racism to exist because should we reach the place of it being a non-issue they would be out of a job.
Notice it is from "Fox" news. Like that information isn't going to be bias. Quoting an interesting take on an incident, to be effective needs to be from a creditable source. Not a known, right wing mass media news station. That would be like me quoting something off CNN. What a joke.
Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson etc would be out of the public eye if they didn't take up the race issue. Martin Luther King Jr. would probably roll in his grave if he knew what was happening today.
Yeah, all that coming from a white person...
Seriously, when you have a clue about racism (especially based off the color of your skin) then I think you might be qualified to guess what Dr. King would do or not do. What a joke.
Whites cannot suppose what MLK would do or not do because of their skin color, woo, you just may be a racist!
lol, oh yeah- I'm racist against blacks. stupid, but funny.
Your worthless to debate with. Simply worthless.
Yeah its fox news, if I wanted the lefts spin I would have gone to one of their sites. You're attempt at discrediting fox is going to take a little more than just your words it may take actual facts,do you have any?
Why good morning to you to Sparky. Have all the squirrels refused to play a game with you today? Are you in need of some attention?
I stated this on the other thread on this issue as well-how is what Wilson did any different or worse than kerry calling bush names, the democrats booing Bush during the state of the union address or reid calling him a liar and a cheat?
Like I said-if one is made to apologize they all should. And besides Wilson already personally apologized to the president. Why is it necessary that he apologize to congress r on the floor?
I am sick to death of these double standard politics.
Its not, but they are in charge and have the pulpit now.
At first I thougtht Wilson was out of line for making the comments where he did. However, upon much reflection, he wasn't, he apologised so let it go. Being politically correct is out of control and most of us are pretty darn tired of being forced to play by the rules of the yard bully. Americans are waking up and things are changing because this current administration has an agenda way left than any of us can imagine. If anyone out there thinks my comments are racist, keep your comments to yourself. That is part of the politcal correctness that is out of control.
Bring back Condi!!
What? 8 years of political incorrectness wasn't enough for you?
Deed I do, now watching Florida Vs Troy. Dove shoot later.
Who is your team? And anyone who is reading I know this is not relevant but it happens all the time!
Bulldogs of course, but they're not looking too good so far. Any SEC team gets my approval, how bout you?
Texas, Hook em! I figured you were a Georgia fan, what did you think of OK State. We gotta play em like always and they always play us well. I didn't see the game so is Georgia that bad or OK st. that good?
I didn't see the game either because I was shooting birdsd last Saturday. Since Ga. lost both Marino and Stafford to the pros it seems to be a rebuilding year. I like the Horns too, especially when they won the championship a few years ago. Gotta root for the southern teams.
Yeah gotta stick to where Football has been perfected, SEC is a tough conference, great defenses! The 05 Texas team just had it all that year, best N. Championship game I have been to and the most expensive! Two Tickets 2500
Two round trip airline tickets 3500
Beating USC for a National Championship, Priceless!
I bet that was great! I too enjoyed it immensely. I hate USC.
Well, amazingly enough my fellow American we have a forum in which we can agree!
Bush didn't do everything right!! The last two years the dems had control and he couldn't breathe without their permission.
So, Randy, enlighten me please, what was so politically correct about the Bush administration?
Becareful with that word. You've been reported.
I now see the problem, you don't understand the meaning of the word "racist." Not surprising!
You got my point! How idiotic using the word at will really is.
BTW, our military have often been referred to as boys, are you going to take offense there too?
I'm kinda curious as to why this post is now becoming about racism, and racists- when it very well was about something else.
BJC- why don't you start your own thread about Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Dr. King. One where you can give your silly little antics a full playground to breed? You can also explain to the international community how you are an expert on racism and how you've marched with Dr. King, like my grandparents did. You can then explain to the rest of the international community your own black heritage, and how you've walked in Al Sharpton's shoes when he was a child- beaten in the streets for being black. You can the rest of the world, how you cried and wept for Obama; because finally YOU felt a sense of pride in being black. That you now realized that maybe the words, "Free at last" were going to apply to YOUR grandchildren.
By all means- start this thread YOU'RE so well informed about.
I have been with black friends Mississippi and people did spit, stare, ignore, speak vile words to us whilst we were there. No, I haven't experienced what Sharpton and co. have but the reality is everytime someone disagrees on an issue and the people have different skin color, it is brought into the debate and made an issue. Neither would you know what MLK would think. Many of my black friends did not vote for Obama, as much as they wanted to because of his skin, but they chose not to because of his agenda.
You know this really isn't the 1920's anymore. There are always going to be ignorant people. Heck some friends of mine went to a fair in Kentucky and they had the KKK out there and Confederate flags a-flyin'. So what? My dad used to work in Mississippi. There was a barber there who had a gun under the counter in case a Negro were to walk in and ask for a haircut. Now this town had a black population of about 30%. This idiot hated so much that he was willing to forgo 30% of his custom, just to he could hate. Individual racism is stupid, petty and generally only hurts the one who hates.
Institutional racism, on the other hand, uses the force of government to keep people down and that is pure evil. We haven't had much institutional racism towards black folk for a while now. Now institutional racism towards whites? Well that's growing. It's funny how when you look beyond color at those who hate, how they are more similar to each other than the other members of their so-called "race". In the end we're all human and deserve to be treated as such.
As for why this post has devolved into racism, well it's South Carolina, they're kinda notorious for that.
The following headline is how the thread turned to racism.
"Black Publishers Cry Racism Over Wilson Outburst, Join Boycott of South Carolina
A group of black publishers has canceled a planned January conference in South Carolina where Rep. Joe Wilson is a representative and joined an economic boycott of the state started by the state NAACP in protest of the confederate flag flying from the State House grounds."
Umm, you lost me on this...
EDIT Ahh, we cross-posted, now i see
First of all, the Senator WAS NOT made to apologize. The good Senator did it on his own. Like any decent human being would do. He WAS NOT forced to do jack shit. Did I miss the whole gun to the head ordeal, or what?
He apologized. And good for him for doing so, he should have.
Obama accepted his apology. Done!
It not a federal offense when a man, who has done something wrong- apologizes for his/her behavior. And to imply that it is, or that it was; well................ need I say more?
That was a ridiculous out burst, he shouldn't have spoken it out aloud anyway. Its okay to disagree, but no outbursts.. Well at least he apologized, and I think his apology was accepted. Maybe it won't be held against him.
by paarsurrey 10 years ago
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Do you like Congressman Ron Paul and would you vote for him?Do you believe Ron Paul can be a good President?
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I was thinking about this from a historian's perspective (I have an M.A. in History). My first caveat about this question is that, as a historian, I think it's misguided to try to evaluate president's while they're still in their presidency. It takes perspective and time to provide a proper...
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