No matter what you say or how you say it Trump is 100% racist and os feeding off the attention. From the squad to Cummings he wants nothing but to divide us. Sadly it’s working this issue has nothing to do with party but right and wrong. Do you think silence from his party indicates they are too racist?
Yes, it certainly is divisive. Thousands or millions of people spreading lies about the president.
Of course the millions of people in the Republican party are all racist. It helps, I guess, when the the objective is to demonize one to spread it over everyone else as well.
Not only is he a racist, he's a filthy creepy porn racist and it's just bad luck for him that EVERYONE has a camera these days to capture his blatant Dark RACISM and Bigotry on digital for the archives: But this is the UNREAL part, he can't even resign voluntarily because as soon as he does he'll be INDICTED for his High Crimes and CRIMES Against HUmanity: Is this INSANE or what ????
Listen to this 73 year old Babbling RETARD, it doesn't get more racist than this and it's BACKFIRING on him in a BIG way:
Poor Trump. It's horrible when someone tells lies about him, but when he does it to others almost daily, it's fine, right Dan?
Yes, you are quite right. When the leaders of the most prominent church in America say he is a racist, you know it's getting bad.
I don't think Republicans are avoiding the truth. They are afraid to admit the truth because Trump's rabid followers will slaughter them in the elections.
There are very close ties between nationalism and racism. I don't think any Republican would argue that Trump ISN'T a nationalist. Nationalist language frequently begins to sound like racist language because Trump views America in a certain way.
What is the nation for Trump? I don't think he sees a melting pot. I think he sees a nation made great by white Europeans and that the rest of the immigrants benefit from what was built by that white, European center. He certainly behaves as though non-whites do not belong.
I agree there are close ties between nationalism and racism. It has shown up time and again throughout history.
Ultranationalists like Trump always look for someone to blame to boost and inflame their followers. Minorities of any kind are easy targets because they lack power.
In Trump's case, he blames just about everyone: blacks, Hispanics, allies, liberals, Democrats, moderates and even his own party members who dare to oppose him.
I think it's a fair point to label Trump an opportunist, rather than a racist. You could make the argument that if you oppose him, he attacks you the same way regardless of who you are. And if you support him, he praises you. It may be that it's not so much that he's a racist as he sees race as a weakness with non-whites, so that's what he attacks. Still seems like racism to me, but if you're an equal opportunity attacker, then maybe there's something to that.
lol, forget "Fairness", it's Completely ACCURATE to label Comrade Trump both an Opportunist and a RACIST: He's also a HATE Filled Misogynist, a Bigot, an idiot, a fool, an un-ndicted co-conspirator, a criminal, an adulterer a babbling numbskull and he hates the USA while favoring his master Vladimir Putin in public: Oh, and he confessed to the world that he fell in LOVE with a man which makes him GAY:
Jake, I am starting to think your in love with Trump, you talk so much about him.
I see your point but most racist people follow the nationalist views and add violence
Good points here. The line between nationalism and racism often becomes blurred (this is the case in most countries I'm familiar with). I think Trump plays off this and uses it to direct the disillusionment of poor and working class whites in a way that benefits him.
If republicans in the senate don't OUST this 73 year old babbling racist by IMPEACHMENT before 2020, republicans will be WIPED Out of our senate by another Rightous BLUE Progressive Democratic WAVE just like in the 2018 midterms:
I feel the same way which led me to believe Putin has something on most of them. In some weird way I think many of the right want him to loose so they can be off the hook without showing signs of betrayal. Still not acceptable because if they were feeling being blackmailed they could all just resign like Paul Ryan did
I think trump has dirt on most of the right and they know it. Still right is right and wrong is wrong and America will have a racist, sexist con man as a president in the history books
I agree Tiffany but we should add the word "ILLEGITIMATE" before the word "President": It's absolutely INSANE to think about this but our greatest enemy Vladimir Putin actually infiltrated our democracy with his spies and CHANGED votes in Donald's favor in 2016: That makes him as illegitimate as it can possibly get and right now, another republican traitor in our senate named "Moscow" Mitch McConnell revealed himself after he BURNED a Bill which would have made it more difficult for Russians to do the very same thing in 2020: And he's still allowed to enter our senate chamber just like Donald is still allowed to keep the keys to our oval office !!: How INSANE is that ??
"our greatest enemy Vladimir Putin actually infiltrated our democracy with his spies and CHANGED votes in Donald's favor in 2016: That makes him as illegitimate as it can possibly get."
Despite numerous requests on these forums, you've not offered a shred of evidence to the claim that Russian interference resulted in Hillary's defeat. Every time I've asked I've heard either 1) crickets 2) Babble.
Care to provide evidence that the extensive Russian interference provided a Trump win? Or do you prefer to continue spewing globalist rhetoric? Either is okay with me, though if you don't provide concrete evidence, you're acknowledging that you have only babble to offer.
I've posted several exhibits of corroborating evidence to prove Comrade Trump is both a pathetic cowardly RACIST and Russia Agents changed votes in 2016 to just barely TILT the election in his favor which makes him ILLEGITIMATE, but you and other white nationalists around here either have poor memories or just play the "IGNORE the Truth" charade like Fox Fake Channel:
The Mueller Report states that the Judiciary committee confirmed Trump campaign officials spoke with Russian officials because Russia believed it would benefit from his presidency. There are a total of 126 DOCUMENTED (meaning proven) interactions between Trump officials and Russian officials.
It was proven, through Papadopoulos, that Russian officials ran a cyber influence campaign, where fake and purposely misleading images circulated social media platform (namely Facebook) that reached over 120 million people. Russian officials also stole and released DNC and Clinton emails, giving Papadopoulos the DNC election game plan. Which was then used to create the Trump press strategy and communications campaign. It was also discovered the Trump campaign chairman gave Russian agents important internal data regarding battle states.
One of the main reasons there was Russian interference was because Putin wanted relief from US economic sanctions after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Michael Flynn and Russian ambassador's discussed these sanctions in a secret Trump Tower meeting.
Michael Cohen, was found guilty of campaign violations including lying about the $1 billion Russian Trump tower deal and most notably the Stormi Daniels scandal.
37 people or entities have been charged with crimes
7 have been convicted
5 of which were top Trump or White House aides
Paul Manafort- Trumps campaign manager
Manafort was actually promised a pardon by Trump if he didn't
cooperate with Mueller
Rick Gates- Trumps deputy campaign manager
Michael Flynn- Trumps former national security adviser
Michael Cohen- Trumps personal attorney
George Papadopoulos- Trumps former campaign foreign policy adviser
Roger Stone- 6th individual will face trail later this year
Trump has not been exonerated at all. In fact, there are 10 potential cases of obstruction against him. The only reason Mueller couldn't go through with it is because under the Office of legal Counsil (OLC) a sitting president cannot be indicted, it is unconstitutional. However, under the department of justice policy he can be indicted AFTER his presidency.
Congress can actually speed up the process because one of the constitutional processes of formally accusing a sitting president of wrongdoing is impeachment.
Jake yes I agree, he is a puppet and Mitch is one as well. I am really curious about what dirt he is hiding in his closet. The sad part is it will come out one day
Let's certainly scream racist and avoid reality. Instead of complaining about Trump because he commented on Baltimore, we could all resolve to help them (because their leaders agree there is a huge problem). Instead, democrats whine about Trump and ignore that their energy would be better spent helping Baltimore.
As for the Squad, I think they like the exposure. What he said was wrong but the left,again, refuses to think of issues (real issues that affect every American) and instead focus on whining about poor word choices.
Racist? The guy is trying to strengthen our economy. Doing a pretty good job of it also. That good job has helped Americans across every political spectrum, every race and religion and every demographic. What does the democratic party do? Whine.
Show me the proof of his good he is doing for this economy? If the economy is doing well then how is Baltimore doing bad? It’s America right?
If you can't look at the economic statistics and see proof, I'm at a loss.
I don't live in Baltimore. I don't know what challenges they face, but they are facing challenges.
Several points I've heard brought up that could definitely help create opportunity. No child tested in Baltimore public schools displayed any basic math skills. That's appalling. That city has allowed its education system to fail miserably. Let's figure that out.
I heard more than 2 billion dollars in federal aid has been given to Baltimore over the last 10 years that no positive effect from the expenditure can be accounted for. Let's support Baltimore rooting out corruption and making sure money invested goes to help those in need.
And, honestly, let's stop screaming racist. It's a cop out. It gives a defeatist attitude to people who need hope, not empty rhetoric.
Live to learn
There are many cities failing under this administration. I am from Detroit which was never considered a city for higher education. The schools trained students to be factory workers and nothing more. I was blessed and able to attend school in the suburbs which led me to seek higher education. This came as a shock to family and friends and it outcasted me as well.
I ended up becoming a surgical technologist that open so many doors for me but in order to really succeed I had to move out of Michigan. Living in Vegas with 13 years experience under my belt and specialize in Open heart surgery, I still find it difficult to work in health organizations because I am mainly the only black female on my team. My managers never listen to me when I suggest better solutions and after speaking to others from different backgrounds I learned that we are to just follow the rules and keep our heads down. We would get in trouble for being 1 min late while Amy white counterparts were allowed to come anytime without punishment.
This city is not a failing city yet we now have many people from other backgrounds not working even with the needed skills. It make sense that cities that were failing prior to Trump. So what happened when he said he would fix it, I did hope he would prove me wrong and turn it around but no the working class now has the higher taxes to pay while most professionals of color have to accept travel assignments to survive.
It is interesting that many of our greatest cities are failing miserably and have been for many years under liberal leadership...but it is the fault of this administration.
Truly, this sounds like just more Trump bashing; complaints without substance or even common sense. Trump is not responsible for the condition of Baltimore: Baltimore is. It has pursued a policy for decades that has caused it to become what it is, and it cannot be "repaired" or even improved until those policies end.
True under liberal leadership cities were still failing, but recall under Obama the Republicans has control over the senate and congress. When bills were to be passed the right blocked most of them. So let’s see what can happen when dems have control over congress a with a democratic president.
I've never been one to think inner city problems are a Democrat or Republican issue. These are poor people who need real solutions.
Your comments about your employment struck a chord. I'm not of color, but I worked in an office under similar circumstances. By any reasonable measure I stood out as a top performer. There were those who did little, got all the perks and pats on the back from upper management. Could do anything and get away with it. This had nothing to do with race. It had to do with politics within the workforce.
I think, at times, we try to rationalize why we feel discriminated against and we happen upon explanations which may seem logical but are incorrect.
GDP and stock market are both declining. Many experts are predicting a recession within the next year as a result of the trade war.
Federal deficits and national debt are skyrocking thanks to Trump's massive tax cut for the rich and large corporations.
These are not signs of good economic management.
"GDP and stock market are both declining. Many experts are predicting a recession within the next year as a result of the trade war."
Yeah. The economic upturn we're seeing is superficial and quite temporary. I won't be surprised by a significant economic downturn in the near future, though Trump seems to have the Fed on his side with the recent rate cut.
Question is: When will the downturn hit? If it hits before the election, Trump is out. No matter though - there'll be lots of hurting people whenever it happens, and the government in charge will get the blame, deserved or not.
Why wouldn't they deserve it? Screwing around with tariffs is hurting everyone, especially the farmers and fishermen. Who else should we blame, Prof?
This is the Trump administration fault and they will be responsible for this, but it will take citizens to step up and vote to get all of them out in 2020
Whose fault is it that we've suffered for years under unfair trade practices and intellectual theft by China? Trump's?
Whose "fault" is it that companies are returning to the country - is it just coincidence that it happened after taxes and irrational regulations were reduced by Trump? Is it just coincidence that businesses grew after it became apparent that this administration was serious about a level economic playing field?
Or was that Trump's "fault", too, as the first president in decades to actually take steps to improve our dismal trade situation?
You don't RAISE Taxes on almost everything Americans buy with an INSANE Trade War Tariff as Bozo Trump did just because you have NO legitimate ideas on how to remedy China's theivery: Trump is a RETARD, his apparent inhability and or unwillingness to learn things is nothing less than INSANE when you have the keys to our oval office: He displays this retardation on Global Television for the world to see, of course China is taking advantage of his INCOMPETENCE because our enemies know exactly what he's thinking 24/7 and that's dangerous and this once great country is spiraling into the dirt because of it:
How do you think Donny Boy drove casinos into the DIRT? How do you think he went FLAT Broke for at least a 10 year period that we know of, LOSING almost 2 BILLION Dollars according to reports and believe it or not, every undocumented worker actually made more money than he did during that period, and who knows what his worth is today?
The Russell 2000 is down over the last 12 months. It's a better indicator of the economy than the Dow or S&P 500 because it isn't dominated by large companies using the tax cut for stock buybacks, which artificially boost prices.
Likewise, second quarter GDP dropped to 2.1%. Not the 4% Trump promised. The Fed is now predicting a 3rd quarter GDP of 1.9%.
The new tariffs will probably make things worse, which is why markets worldwide today took a dive.
I agree with you that Trump is out if the downturn hits by election time. He made it clear that he wasn't happy with a quarter percent rate cut.
Maybe the Republican Senate should stop blocking any kind of infrastructure or any other kind of bill that would help struggling cities. All of them are afraid of him and his nicknames. Many of them won't run again just to avoid being harassed by him. Trump is clearly a racist, it's just refusal to see the truth. He is an old man repeating what his father taught him, never learning anything new or intellectually curious enough to find some of his own truths. He also is a misogynist.
Thank you I couldn’t agree with more. This is why I pity him a person with everything yet nothing to show for it but misery and hate
Yep. I'd also like the Senate Republicans to quit blocking bills on election interference.
But they seem to want Russian help, like they did in the 2016 election.
On social media and other outlets...I am seeing a large number of people of color who disagree with your take on things. And they are very vocal about it as well.
So who do we believe...?
Or do we just make our own decision and not worry about what other people tell us what we should be thinking?
Are you sure they're of color, DS? You can't really trust social media as long as the Russians are at it. And they're at it.
Well...as a single example...
I am pretty sure Candace Owens is a woman of color...
I think Trumpian billboards like this one are one of many indications that he is inflamming his supporters with racial rhetoric.
Trump could act like a real leader and tell his supporters to tone it down. But he won't.
Umm...That sign isn't racist...
It is insulting their intelligence...says nothing of their skin color...
Umm, you miss the point. Again, Trump "is inflamming his supporters with racial rhetoric".
The sign has four non-white faces. He consistently attacks non-whites. His supporters respond in kind.
The image is the message.
Trump doesn't have to use the "N" slur to promote racial animosity.
I see racism in that. But it isn't Trump. Or his supporters. It's those who see race first.
Actually, it's people who refuse to see race because they voted for Trump.
Many people refuse to see race... because we are more interested in the person and not their skin color... as it is the person and their character that matters...not the color of their skin...and it has nothing to do with who they did or didn't vote for.
Isn't it considered racist to make a judgement or only seeing the race of someone? I am sure I have heard that somewhere...
Many Trump supporters "refuse to see race" because: 1) they don't want to admit they voted for a racist, or 2) they like his constant attacks on blacks and Hispanics.
It becomes racism when:
1. The same words and behavior happen over and over again.
2. More than half of the country see that pattern and believes our own U.S. President is a racist.
3. There is worldwide condemnation of Trump's racist rhetoric.
4. And most importantly, Trump does NOTHING to solve that perception.
But it's not racism for Trump apologists.
Preponderance of view demonstrates at least a certain mindset. Much of the western world has fallen into the same trap as many here in the States, that is, a tendency to see race in political dialog, whether it's there or not.
Preponderance of view usually develops from a preponderance of evidence, i.e., consistent attacks on blacks, Hispanics, Mexico, Africa, Puerto Rico, the Squad, Balitmore, Cummings, "s--holes", Central America.
Likewise, a refusal to act like a U.S. President and take action to reduce that perception.
Trump tends to attack Democrats...And of course, Democrats attack him daily...
I am failing to see a difference?
And calling out cities that are in dire need of some leadership action to correct issues...just so happens to be Democrat cites...
I have a question...based on what I have seen of your posts, you are not a fan of Trump in any means... But I wonder if you can offer something from an unbiased view. So here is the question...
Name 2 things Trump has done that you would view as Positive.
Name 2 things AOC has done that you would view as Positive.
2 Negative for Trump.
2 Negative for AOC.
If you read only one part and not the entire list, then I suggest you are failing to see it: blacks, Hispanics, Mexico, Africa, Puerto Rico, the Squad, Balitmore, Cummings, "s--holes", Central America.
The attack was on Cummings -- a black man -- and the district he represents, which is mostly black. Otherwise, why just Baltimore and not other cities? Detroit, St. Louis and others have higher crime rates.
I am a right-of-center independent and former Republican. I embrace Republican principles and reject a corrupt Republican party which no longer follows those principles.
In answer to your question:
1. I largely agree with Trump's intent to stop the inflow of illegal aliens. I also largely agree with his intent to improve trade relations.
2. I strongly disagree with Trump's inept handling of the trade situation because he is triggering a recession. I also strongly disagree with his enormous tax cut for the rich and corporations. It's skyrocking the federal deficit and national debt. It also grossly violates fiscal conservatism that Republicans are supposed to embrace.
3. I know almost nothing about AOC because she is just a blip and not worth my time to study. My vague impression is that she is a do gooder with impractical ideas and will soon fade from the national spotlight.
The attack was on Cummings...A Democrat....and his democrat ran district...
And from what I have seen, was in response to Cummings attack on him....
Positive for Trump...
I agree with you on the immigration
The second was the over all tax break for all Americans.
Negative for Trump...
His over use of Twitter and not using more professional language and means to accomplish his message.
His embellishment and sometimes outright lies.
Positives for AOC...
Parts of her Green New Deal proposal.
Very outspoken and passionate about her policies.
Negatives for AOC...
Only using information that supports her position, instead of all of the facts.
Her embellishment and sometimes outright lies.
"consistent attacks on blacks, Hispanics".
He's attacked whites that are opposed to him as well.
"...Mexico, Africa, Puerto Rico....."s--holes", Central America".....
You'll get no argument from me that Trump is a xenaphobe. All of these are foreign countries (Puerto Rico arguably a 'foreign heritage') - that's what I see in those attacks, a xenaphobe. And they're impoverished - he's chosen countries that are economically and politically weak.
"the Squad, Balitmore, Cummings"....
Okay, I still see no racism here. His attack on Baltimore was dumb and unnecessary, but not racist. And really, time to leave the Squad alone.
"I don't see race"
This is an exaggeration...and completely not even remotely close to what I meant...
Which of course, is why we will continue to have the issues that we do...
Not seeing race...is about not making a judgement of someone solely due to their skin color...Or is the equality argument just a talking point of no actual substance?
If trump were black, there would not be calls of "racism!" Who are doing the calling, in all actuality?
Well...according to some of the people that I happen to follow on various social outlets...
People who are unknowingly pushing a racist agenda under the guise of standing against racism...by continuing to reduce things down to such factors such as race, gender, etc...
I'm not going to use race as a litmus test of good or bad in other's. You are doing that. I'm going to call it exactly what it is.
So Scott is a racist and Trump isn't? Better to stick to the litmus test then....
"I'm not going to use race as a litmus test....."
You've hit the nail on the head. Seeing every attack that happens to be on someone of color as racist is problematic - it's part of the mindset we're seeing now.
Sorry, I think you are both still missing the point. The point is the consistent pattern of attacking people who are not white.
Just as importantly, the second point is not acting like a President of the United States and taking a stand against racism when it has become a huge national debate.
Real leaders would stand up and say, enough is enough. Trump isn't doing it because racial division is a political strategy.
"Real leaders would stand up and say, enough is enough. Trump isn't doing it because racial division is a political strategy."
Okay. I'll wait to see conclusive evidence that Trump is using racial division as a strategy. He certainly has done nothing to ease the claims of racism, though these claims seem to crop up WAY too often now, and that's been the case for the last 10 years in the US.
Time will tell for me if what you're thinking is accurate.
Oh...I missed the skin color then...
As I was reading what the sign said about 4 freshmen democratic congress members who are very outspoken on some extremely controversial topics...
Their skin color or gender wasn't a considering factor for me...their talking points were...
Of course you do...
You think I am a Trump supporter...
I am just calling BS on everything being racist...as in that billboard you posted...
That billboard was directed at their politics...nothing else...
There are many people who think they are defending racism, but are doing nothing more than promoting it...as in pointing out the fact that these congress members are being reduced down to the color of their skin instead of focusing on their policies and if their policies are good or bad...
And as that billboard clearly shows....some people think their policies are bad (idiotic)...
I'm disappointed in your hostile response. I was being sincere in my reply, and I didn't think you were a Trump supporter. Now I'm not sure.
Bluntly, you fail to understand how rhetoric and propaganda work. They aren't just about words. They also are about images, like the ones Trump keeps painting when he constantly attacks blacks, Hispanics, Mexico, Africa, Puerto Rico and Central America.
You sure don't hear him talking that way about Russians.
You also fail to understand my point about the connection between Trump's rhetoric and how he uses it -- on purpose -- to inflame supporters who post the kind of crap on that billboard.
I'm surprised you are defending such behavior rather than condemning it.
I am not defending anything...other than the first amendment...
I honestly don't see that sign as being racist in nature...
I don't agree with it, as I don't think we should reduce ourselves to name-calling...
People have forgotten how to discuss their differences of opinions and instead resort to this type of immature behavior and both sides are guilty of it...and have been for quite a few years now.
I understand propaganda quite well actually....We see it almost everyday from both parties...
I understand and accept that you don't see the sign as racist because of the words on it. I believe the racism is in the image, what motivated someone to put up that sign and the consistent pattern by Trump of encouraging such behavior.
I agree with most of your other comments. I suggest that what we hear from the political parties is mostly just standard BS. Truly dangerous propaganda is more subtle and strategic. I believe it's what Trump is practicing.
The reason I don't see the image as racist....is because it wasn't used just because of their skin color...
It was used because those 4 young women are known as the "squad"...with what many people, including parts of the Democrat party, consider to be extremely radical views...
the happenstance of their particular heritage isn't a factor in this use of an insulting sign.
I wonder why Bernie isn't being attacked in the same way. Not only has he been espousing similar radical views for a long time, he is among the top candidates in the Democratic primary. Also, he frequently calls Trump a racist and a misogynist.
Trump has attacked Bernie as well...many times...it just wasn't covered in the news as much as it was not considered a big deal...Bernie is an old, rich, white guy....so no racism, misogynist, or other minority factors...
If Trump consistently consistently attacked Bernie, Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Shumer and Richard Blumenthal, the media would consider it a big deal. They are all Jewish.
Hmm...I am not so sure about that...Seems a few politicians make some very anti-semitic comments and not a peep....well, not exactly, there is support of the comments.
You'd think he'd at least call Bernie an "Old cracker" or something.
He typically calls him.....Crazy Bernie...
He needs to tell Bernie to go back where he came from and see how that works out for him.
I agree. The image is of four non white people. That's the racism. Not the words. You just don't want to see the truth about Trump. I live in NJ and know people he denied housing for who were people of color. Those of us in NJ and NY knew what kind of person he was. He never was a good deal maker, he's been bankrupt and many of his projects fail. He made a mess of Atlantic city with his casinos. Then he moves on, with loans from China (American banks won't lend him money) and leaves ghost towns behind.
Why do you need to say people of color. Just because I am black doesn’t mean I think he is racist. He is racist no matter what color or party one is. Assuming based on my skin color makes a person racist as well
The reason I used the term "people of color", is that many seem to be under the impression that only "white" people can be racist. And if someone who isn't a "person of color" says someone isn't racist, then they themselves must also be racist...
Now...I could have said there are a bunch of "white" folks who disagree with your statements, but I don't think that would have went over well...
So for my post, I used a demographic that should be holding a similar view point, because if Trump is in fact racist, it would be "people of color" who would know this more than anyone else, because everyone knows that "white" folks don't know nothing about treated in a racist manner.
I'm not sure who thinks only white people can be racist. I have never met or read anyone with a grip on reality who thinks that way.
Frankly, the most racist people I have ever met aren't even white.
Sadly, there are many who think this way...but as you say..."grip on reality"....
And I would agree...The majority of racist type folks I have met personally are not white.
I might add that the most racist people I have met aren't black either.
It's not hard to understand why whites get resentful at being accused of racism so much. Some of it is true and a lot of it is BS, especially after how much this country has done to fight the problem. It could be one reason why some people reject the racism accusations against Trump.
So just to clarify our past comments, I'm not a guilty white liberal who easily accepts racism claims. I just happen to think Trump is guilty of it as a political strategy.
"It's not hard to understand why whites get resentful at being accused of racism so much. Some of it is true and a lot of it is BS, especially after how much this country has done to fight the problem. It could be one reason why some people reject the racism accusations against Trump."
I don't think so, I think the media labels everything he does as racist.
He wants a wall... racist.
He bashes Omar for her anti-Semitic and anti-American talk... racist.
Most of the stories that come out are contrived or inflamed, how many stories have been proven false that CNN has created? When are they going to be held accountable for their part in the splitting of America?
Whatever he says, many in the media twist it to be far worse than what was meant, finding racism in remarks that had no such connotation.
When the media is running stories like this back in 2016:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/worl … itler.html
The stage was being set, this was the fate of Trump before he ever became President, he was labeled, and he would be painted as the worst despot, racist, etc. no matter what his Presidency did.
I believe he recognized this, and has fought them all along, in his fashion, and the media and politicians who oppose him have become full of hate and spite and loathing because he doesn't respect them or work with them, he agitates them, calls them out for liars, points out to the world that they are the enemy... and that is largely what they have become the enemy of peace and kindness and decency. They stir the pot of racism, sexism, hated, day after day... for the President and any who dare support him.
Try to stop beating a dead horse already Ken, the debate in the real world actually ended long ago, Donald Trump is a bona fide orange faced RACIST which is kinda odd coming from a bizarre looking 73 year old who paints his face to match the color of a tangerine and confessed to the world he fell in love with a man which makes him gay: I suppose you're gonna' deny that he fell in love with a man too right Ken ??
And by the way, we don't need a FACT Based News Outlet like CNN to tell us this, his racism has been documented on film and in writing for the world to see, it speaks for itself:
" I just happen to think Trump is guilty of it as a political strategy."
As someone who isn't a big fan of Trump...I can't agree with this...For someone who gets blamed for being a racist at almost every turn...He seems to be fighting pretty hard to improve the lives of the African American communities.
If he is racist...he isn't very good at it...
lol, if your spaceship just arrived here on Planet Earth, don't worry, you'll learn the TRUTH soon enough:
"He seems to be fighting pretty hard to improve the lives of the African American communities."
I don't see the evidence. Nor do polls of African-Americans indicate that they think he is improving their lives.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon … 71daa08114
If your point is about the black unemployment rate, then I get the argument. Unemployment among blacks is at historical lows, although it has simply continued a trend under Obama.
So...we can use a left or right leaning sources as evidence? Anyways....
Here is Lou Dunson
https://www.facebook.com/leodunsonjr/vi … 5083475533
Here is Candace Owens views...(sorry it is on Fox, but she don't get invited to the other networks very often):
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video … eform.html
And from her FB page:
This is off topic of our discussion...
But this is a longer video on the #walkaway movement...
You may find it interesting...
https://www.facebook.com/WorldCloudLA/v … 837935201/
Racism is big business, and an ever changing definition is attached to it.
Wow that was depressing to watch. She is misinformed and clearly has not experienced the hate trump has created for professional black women. Las Vegas is not a failing city, yet people from different backgrounds have been fired or laid off of their jobs for no reason. Were she fails to realize is in those city’s like Detroit they create ways to prevent people of color from obtaining a higher education which led to many accepting factory jobs. These jobs started failing once Bush was in Office and now new employees don’t make nearly as much as prior employees. This led to most of
These people having to relocate and take a buyout that was not even a years salary.
I even had a co worker ask me how I was able to get a bachelors degree I told her just like everyone else and she was still in shocked that I had one. Even in an innocent moment she did show racism. She apologized and I forgave her now we are good friends and she has more understanding about the situation.
Trump is not a racist. There is no room in America of 2019 for a racist. The worst thing about this is accusing someone of being a racist. This usually happens when you run out of arguments...
The media has tried everything under the sun to get Trump out. They have failed miserably. Their last resort and playbook is playing the race card.
It may have convinced the Democratic base but not the rest of the country.
When 40% consistently poll to support Trump, that alone should give you pause. There are also numerous democrats who support Trump, though they prefer to be silent. I have heard this from many democrats who said they are being ostracized for supporting Trump, instead they just keep quite and vote.
Our country is definitely divided. It is not about race. It is about policy. We have opposing views on a slew of subjects from immigration, to our economy to trade to climate change to healthcare and entitlement to debt and taxes...
The race charge is a distraction because Democrats and the media cannot win in the arena of ideas.
What planet do nationalists live on? You really should watch this, it doesn't get more RACIST:
And yet, El Paso was a prime example of the rising tide of white supremacist violence in America. That TDS really does stand for Trump Denial Syndrome when supposedly educated people like yourself cannot see through the lies and propaganda of this administration. Does it get tiring embarrassing yourself with these types of posts?
Let us know when the GOP has any solutions to things like climate change, healthcare, debt, or infrastructure. Because what they've tried has been a train wreck.
It's unfortunate that you feel this way. I have to ask for some evidence that shows President Trump is practicing racism. Could the media be pushing this narrative, and doing people of color a disservice? I am not meaning to be argumentative, just hope to pinpoint a reason for your opinion in regards to what Trump has done to make you feel he is a racist. An actual incident that solidified your opinion. I appreciate your consideration of my question and respect your decision in regards to answering the question.
When you tell American women of color to go back to your countries, you are a racist. The media did not use those words, they came directly from something Trump posted to his twitter feed. Case closed.
Would you feel better if the comment had been addressed to white men?
There was no reference to race, country of origin or anything else in the context of his statement - just that people wanting to re-make America into what they came from, or what their ancestors came from - the comment would apply equally to anyone promoting a return to medieval Europe.
Case closed - no racism apparent. Except, of course, that which was made up in the minds of Trump haters.
I find it comical you think a reference to race must be used for something to be considered racist. See my example above for clarity.
Well, if race is referenced it's pretty plain whether racist or not.
But if it is not, if it is left to the devices of those that simply want it to be racist (as in "I hate Trump so will call him a racist and here's the proof of it"), well, you can make things up all day long. Why, you can even put thoughts and words in someone else's mouth!
You didn't answer the question, though - would you be happy if it concerned a white male rather than a black female that has attacked everything Trump has done and most of what America has done? Should I assume you wouldn't be happy because then you couldn't concoct a story of a racist president?
Why would I answer such a stupid hypothetical question? And I'm sorry you guys cannot understand why what he said, in the historical context of racism, was offensive to so many and was denounced by so many leaders throughout the world.
When one struts about with a chip on their shoulder, actively looking for anything that might be insulting, or when one hates to the point they'll spin comments out of context, anything is possible. Even claiming racism when none was indicated.
So you believe that the leaders of Canada, the UK, Germany and many other nations that condemned the tweet for the racist tripe that it was, strut about with chips on their shoulders and publicly spun his comments out of context? Pardon me if allowing Trump supporters, which include most of the white nationalists in America, to dictate what constitutes racism in America is hilarious.
As for your constant accusations of hate, we could easily make the same personally against you for defending this clearly racist statement. So if you want to start slinging unfounded accusations of motive, we can go down that road all day long if you wish to persist.
So you believe that all those "leaders" have direct experience with the racism the US has seen? You believe they all fought a civil war over slavery, they all had their "back of the bus" actions against blacks?
You believe that they all speak from deep seated conviction, not for political reasons?
As far as accusations: "Why would I answer such a stupid hypothetical question?". "And I'm sorry you guys cannot understand why what he said,"
You declared it to be racist, based on...? What? That the people referred to were black? They were women, too - was it sexist then? They were all American citizens - was it hateful of nationality? They were part of congress - was it disdainful of congress or the idiot voters that put them there? They were all Democrats - was it "democratism"?
Truth can never be racist, and the truth is that they (or their ancestors) were from countries in the bottom third of the world. Truth is that they haven't done anything to help those countries. Truth is that they do promote policies that would return us to that same status. And that's exactly what he said, now isn't it?
A most definite slur against those specific lawmakers, but that they are black does not make it a racist slur. Except in the minds of those searching for something - anything - they can use to denigrate the man. Go back to the drawing board and find something you don't have to spin into something it never was or exaggerate beyond any possibility of belief to make a point.
Even 56% of those polled by Fox News believe telling people of color to 'go back' is racist: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing … -is-racist
And again, do some simple research of racism in America and phrases used towards minorities. Even federal law agree that it's discrimination: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/federal- … eda5a390cc
Apparently, you're in the 44% and also the 27% that believe them to be an acceptable political attack. You're in the minority, even in a Fox News poll.
"Even 56% of those polled by Fox News believe telling people of color to 'go back' is racist: "
But if they are white and told to "go back" it isn't racism. It has indeed become popular to declare that a "person of color" (meaning anyone but caucasian) can't be a racist - a total, complete pile of BS.
"“Ethnic slurs and other verbal or physical conduct because of nationality are illegal if they are severe or pervasive and create an intimidating, hostile or offensive working environment, interfere with work performance, or negatively affect job opportunities,”
I presume you have another dozen or so instances, bringing it all within the intent of the law?
"“Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person’s foreign accent or comments like, ‘Go back to where you came from,’ whether made by supervisors or co-workers,” it continued."
And did he tell them to "go back to where you came from" (total context) or did he tell them to go back and fix their own country of origin and then fix ours? Context is king, but you don't seem to want to consider the entire tweet; only a few words of it, taken out of context. You might want to do a little research of your own, this time reading the entire event rather than just a few words.
As I mentioned, it has become popular to think only Caucasians can be racist. It might even be a majority. Are you now claiming that anything with lots of followers is automatically right? That is a common logical fallacy, you know.
(But if it was indeed illegal, as you claim, I would fully expect our guardians of the justice system - congress - to immediately impeach the president for "high crimes and misdemeanors". Wouldn't you?)
Well said... It's apparent in today's atmosphere of hate, some that read any given statement President Trump makes select words to feed their hysteria and their need to promote hatred against the president. I have never witnessed anything that comes close to this kind of craziness.
The country of origin for the majority of those minority reps is the United States. Telling American citizens to go back to the country of their family's heritage is racist. And yes, even if a minority said that to a Caucasian, it should be considered as such.
If this was an isolated incident, perhaps your case would be stronger. But Trump's history of documented racism (ordering black dealers out of sight at his casinos, housing discrimination, Central Park 5) combined with his outright use of racist language in this incident cemented the fact that he is, indeed, a racist.
He followed common business practices in his casino, and what his customers demanded...and was therefore racist.
Record of his conviction of housing discrimination, please? I am unaware of any conviction for such actions. Complaints, yes, but then complaints are a dime a dozen.
No racist language in his tweet.
And these things make him a racist, and therefore his comment was racist (ignoring that the third complaint is used to prove itself). Right!
Can you not entertain the possibility that the women in question, through support of BDS, through socialist agenda, through constant insistence that any criticism or critique of their views can only be deemed racist, and through incessantly making negative comments about the US in general might have brought this comment on?
Rashida claims ties to Palestine which has enough human rights violations to fill a court docket for years. Omar claims ties to Somalia. Which seems to be completely void of civil society.
All are American. And I don't support Trump's comment, but calling it racist does play to the belief that you can't criticize any politician who can claim minority status. Which I find absurd.
Did I hear any mention of race or color? Not sure how race had anything to do with his sentiment? I don't think he was being racist just insulting. He was admonishing them on job performance. More or less saying go back and fix your own countries of origin, before you complain about how America is being run... Just because they are women of color does not in any respect protect them from public opinion on job performance. They choose to be in the public light, freedom of speech enables anyone to critique their job performance as well as their behavior.
I have no intention of arguing the point with you. It is very apparent we agree on very little.
I addressed my comment Tiffany because I feel her question was compelling, and I hope she will share her insight.
I know you don't usually like to click and read links, but this one you should so that you can understand how you're trying to defend such an openly racist statement.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-twe … lains-why/
It's odd that you make the claim I do not 'click into links". As a rule, the majority of my comments are accompanied by links? As I said we tend to not agree on much. Your link was interesting, and I respect Mr. Kendi's" opinion. He certainly has the education to speak on the subject, and being a black man, I respect his insight n the subject. Do I agree? In the case of the tweet, Trump posted in regards to the Squad's TV press conference I don't feel it was racist. As I said freedom of speech is for everyone.
Let me give you an example that can help. Being angry with a person of color and stating something along the lines of ‘go away or I’ll lynch you.’ There is no mention of race in that statement either, but anyone with a brain understands the historical significance of what makes that an example of racism. Apparently, everyone but those trying to defend Trump of clearly using something most of the civilized world recognized as a racist statement.
And sure, freedom of speech allows him to say that. But it doesn’t exempt him from showing the world that his statement was racist, and hence, from people seeing him as a racist.
The actual tweet
Donald J. Trump
So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly.....
....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....
.it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!
Please read the entire tweet. It provides a very clear sentiment to what Trump was saying.
Your comparison was foolish and overblown and was a statement that threatened violence, and yes when one tells a person of color, I am going to lynch you that would be a racist. Trump's statement was not threatening violence or racism. Trump's statement sought to insult these women's intelligence, and the ability to perform their jobs as congresswomen.
Please keep your examples to yourself. This one was ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is that you have the audacity to believe you speak for a majority.
My example was neither foolish, nor overblown. It was an example that using certain words to a minority, whether mentioning race at all, can be considered racist. The fact that you cannot understand that either tells me you have no friends who are minorities and realize you should avoid certain words, or are too dim to understand the historical nature of racism in America.
And considering that the majority voted for someone other than Trump, it's not audacity, it's simple math, which clearly eludes you.
Your lack of communication skills is very obvious. If one does not agree with your opinion you seek to insult theirs with vague comments. Using words like dim or statements such as " clearly eludes you," " I know you don't usually like to click and read links". Statements such as these only prove to show your lack of communication skills. They also reveal you have little respect for other views. You have a pattern that clearly uses this form of communication to provoke others.
As I have said on many posts, we have different views, and I have no intention of defending my views. I expressed very clearly my views on the Trump tweet you submitted to this thread. I have nothing further to say on the subject.
Trump is racist. Plain and simple. To his supporters, denying racism or refusing to call it out is also racist. Refusing to call Trump racist makes you part of the problem.
Racism is actually under-identified and labeled in America, which isn't surprising, but saddening considering this is a systemic issue perpetuated by our hegemonic institutions.
The phrase "go back where you came from" is a clear example of a palimpsest, carrying centuries old sentiments re-purposed to spread an anti-immigration narrative laced with racial microaggressions. The "othering" is based on historical use of the phrase. White people aren't seen as strangers in this nation and aren't told they don't belong. It's people of color who are seen as the other and, as people who don't belong, hear this or variations of this phrase (i.e. what are you? where are you from? no, really where are you from? but your parents, where are they from?). You provide a clear pattern of this with your remark, "More or less saying go back and fix your own countries of origin, before you complain about how America is being run." Because that's just it, this is their country. Besides they're Congresswomen, it's their jobs to discuss the failings of this nation and improve it. That's why they were elected.
Moreover, these ideologies are insidious for two different reasons, it portrays people of color as less American for daring to speak their mind within the political sphere and it is ambiguous and non-overt racism which makes it easy to dismiss.
You also reiterate the fact that these are your "views." Which is a clear example of your white privilege. And before anyone says anything, no white privilege doesn't mean you don't have any problems, it means your problems aren't caused by or enhanced because of your race. Even though race is a social construct the effects of it are very real. These aren't "views" for people of color, these are lived realities.
White people don't get to claim what is racist because they benefit from cycles of oppression that are alive and well today. It shifts the focus from people of color, who have to survive racial injustices everyday, to white people who don't face the same issues. It's choosing personal comfort instead of acknowledging racism and the harm it causes.
I actually never made any statement that expressed my opinion in regard to Trump not being a racist or not being a racist? I simply did not find the particular tweet we were discussing as being racist. Just my opinion.
President Trump did not tell these women to "go back to where you came from" context matters. He told them to go back and fix their own country of origin and then come back and fix ours?
"Rather than acknowledge the realities of racism and it's effect on people of color, white racists do mental gymnastics to justify these injustices."
Americans fought a long bloody civil war to make sure our country would not tolerate slavery... Would you call that gymnastics? Yes, racism exists.
However, America has a good history of working against inequality. There is lots of work still to do.
" I don't think he was being racist just insulting." That is in fact, an opinion which you stated. Failing to view a racist statement as such is further confirmation.
I've already addressed why this is racist, but to reiterate, telling 4 women of color to go back and fix their country of origin, when 3 of them were born and raised here (aka their country of origin) is racist.
Who did Americans fight to free the slaves? Oh right, other Americans. Let's not forget about he 100 years of overt racism thanks to the Jim Crow laws. As a person of color, I'd argue we don't have a history of working against inequality. In fact for every step forward we take two steps back.
"Failing to view a racist statement as such is further confirmation."
What's it called when everything is turned into a racism even though there is no intent and in fact any racism is only in the minds of those searching for something to complain about?
"As a person of color, I'd argue we don't have a history of working against inequality. In fact for every step forward we take two steps back."
As a "person of color" are you again relegated to the back of the bus? To a different water fountain? Denied access to housing or even motel rooms because you are not caucasian? Forced to attend substandard schools because of the melanin in your skin? About the only "step back" I can think of was the ending of the forced racist discrimination of being required to hire based on skin color. Of course, that "step back" was only "back" to those that benefited from the program; to those that were denied jobs or education because they didn't have enough melanin it wasn't "back" at all.
I repeat, white people don't get to claim what is racist because they benefit from cycles of oppression that are alive and well today. If racism didn't affect me, I'd find it difficult to see. The same way I don't have to think about hunger because it's not something that directly affects me.
The irony, I"m sure, is lost on you.
Look up why our public transportation is so horrible, who funds lobbyist actively seeking to keep it that way? And what populations are most hurt? Water fountains, look up the flint water crisis? Where the pipeline was originally supposed to be built? Why it was changes? What the EPA said in regard to the water contamination issue and why it has taken so long to fix? Search the history of suburbs and its initial purpose. How housing contracts were written in the 50's? Its effect on the creation "inner city" neighborhoods. What business were purposely driven into certain types of neighborhoods? How thats shaped most of our communities today and how its allowed a second wave erasure through gentrification? Look up de facto segregation, The affect its had on children of color? When it started? Why it was started and its overall effect on public education.
If you're talking about affirmative action, I would look back to the 2016 supreme court ruling, the civil rights division of the department of justice, what they had to say and how they negated reverse racism.
"I repeat, white people don't get to claim what is racist because they benefit from cycles of oppression that are alive and well today."
Or because they won't make a mountain out of a molehill. Or perhaps because they demand true equality, not better conditions/jobs/education/etc. if one has more melanin in their skin. It's called "racism" and the vast majority of people won't stand for it.
Public transportation is so bad because users don't respect it and money is always tight. Who is hurt the most are those people that depend on others to provide transportation for them rather than doing it themselves.
I suspect suburbs were built for people wanting to get out of the rat race of declining inner cities filled with crime. I know I wouldn't live there, and don't expect anyone willing to work hard enough to get out to do so either.
Housing contracts of the 50's are not those of today and do not dictate what is done today. Should we return to them, however, that would be a "step back". We aren't, though.
You're pointing to a whole lot of things from the past; things that no longer exist, and calling it a "step back". Doesn't work.
SCOTUS can say whatever they want and whatever is currently politically popular. When hiring is done on the basis of skin color it is racism. I don't know about the "reverse" part, for racism is racism regardless of who is the racist and who is the victim, but it was most definitely racist. Nor does the intent change that, nor the end result (both were good): it was still treating people differently based on color and that is the very definition of racist.
"When hiring is done on the basis of skin color it is racism. I don't know about the "reverse" part, for racism is racism regardless of who is the racist and who is the victim, but it was most definitely racist."
I particularly like this point.
And this: "it was still treating people differently based on color and that is the very definition of racist."
How can anyone argue this point? But...some most assuredly do as we clearly see here.
And, as an aside, I think most people around here agree that the public transportation is pretty good here in the small Midwestern city in which I live. And, we have plenty of racial diversity.
You don't have to be a Trump supporter to understand these things, and I think ANY Democrat hoping for a chance in 2020 is going to have to make it clear that he, or she, understands this during the general election fight. America is about opportunity and race should not stand in the way of that opportunity as we move forward as a nation.
"Failing to view a racist statement as such is further confirmation." Confirmation of what? Your statement infers your opinion the "last word'? Do you feel just because you believe something others it should be enough for all to fall into line with your thought process?...
"I've already addressed why this is racist, "
And once again that's your opinion and I do not ascribe to your opinion on this matter. You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I have no need for someone that does not afford me the same right.
I see great progress in regards to racism. However, as I siad we have a lot more too do.
On your first statement- https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/articl … le/249/116
“Listening Silence” and Its Discursive Effects by Barbara Applebaum
And “My Feelings Are Not About You”: Personal Experience as a Move of Whiteness
By DiAngelo, Robin JAllen, David.
The basis of your opposition lies with the belief that my statements are based on mere opinion alone. That is incorrect. You’ve alluded, however, that my challenging your “opinion” is in some way silencing. It is not.
You’ve continued to fall back on the stance that this is merely you “opinion” as if this has no real life consequences. So much of right wing rhetoric is based on opinion and not actual facts or evidence based supported postulations. The effects of which are felt by people of color.
It’s not about screaming racism it’s about not being silenced anymore. Of course trump is a racist and he knows it, he is also an attention seeker no matter how he gets it’s and he feels any attention is better than no attention.
That is your right... I believe he is
That is your right. I believe he isn't.
It's Kathryn's right to believe "Tiny Hands" Trump is not a racist, it's also a Trump followers right to believe as he does that brutal Climate Change is a HOAX by China and our only habitable planet called Earth is FLAT:
Yes it is her right no judgement hear..
I believe those who hate Trump want others to hate him too. They deliberately misconstrue what he says ...
And then spread their lies wherever they can.
Because they do not believe he was the majority choice.
If they could admit he was the majority choice, maybe they could relax and let him do his job.
And acknowledge the good things he does, DESPITE all the grief the haters pour and pour and pour.
Their douses will have no effect.
And too many know the truth:
that Trump is not a clown ...
It’s not hate I feel for trump it’s pity. Here you have a man who was born with all the royalties and yet he is not satisfied. You have a person who get happiness from others misery. A person who enjoys treating women like a piece of meat and not afraid to admit it.
One can only imagine what he really is doing with the teen migrants girls in centers. Hate no it’s not hate it is true pity
If you don't think what he said is racist, go up to a black co-worker and tell them to go back to their country. Let us know how that goes for you. You will have plenty of free time to formulate your reply.
You do realize not all of those women were black? I'd say if you walked up to anyone, no matter color or ethnicity, that statement would be offensive.
Of course I am aware. I'm making the point that with the history of racism towards black people in this country, what Trump said is perceived as more than just 'offensive' to that particular demographic. Not sure why you're trying to argue against that though.
I agree if it’s not a racist statement they should say that to a co worker and find out what happens
That is not what was said though....
"Go back and fix your home countries governments and then come back and tell us how it is done."
If you're going to quote, try and be accurate. Don't modify his words to fit your narrative as you just did.
Here is the actual line: '...Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came...'
Sorry, but telling a minority to 'go back to where they came' is pretty racist to anyone not a Trump supporter. It's why I suggest all you people denying this statement's racist qualities to try it at work on a minority and see how it turns out.
First...I am not a Trump Supporter...or Republican or Democrat either for that matter...
And you are modifying the quote yourself...
"go back and help fix" not "go back and never return...or we don't want you here..." and then after that it is..."Come back and teach us how it is done"....and the descriptive part is accurate in terms of what their country of origin government looks like...
In the original tweet...no names were mentioned at all...
So..no it wasn't a racist comment...because if you don't cherry pick it...it wasn't a " we don't want you here" type of comment, but rather a " why are you demonizing this country's government, which you immigrated to, to escape the bad government you came from"
In the original tweet, he refers to the Progressive Democrats. Only an idiot does not realize he was referring to the four freshman minority members of the house that Fox News had been targeting in recent weeks.
And no, the descriptive part is not accurate because three of the four were born in America. Their country of origin is the United States - specifically Detroit, Cincinnati, and the Bronx. How do you not know this before trying to argue your point?
The problem, DS, is that 3 of those women are American citizens by birth, where were they supposed to return to?
From Trump's perspective any criticism of him, his policies or his administration is akin to "demonizing this country's government".
LOL That seems fair enough - our government (or at least one half of it) has demonized Trump, and at every opportunity. Even to the point of claiming racism when race was never mentioned.
Just like "your half" demonized Obama with Tea Party's, Birthers and all that rot.
So we both get to laugh?
Only in your mind is using a racist dog whistle towards a group of minority women not racist.
That is a fair point Credence.
It is one I have wondered about. In his original tweet did Trump specify any particular people? I thought he just made a general statement that those who are from another country who complain about America could go back to their own and fix it if they have all the answers.
It seemed to be a media driven thing to assign those 4 women to his tweet, and then they made the media rounds together.
Maybe I missed something. But since I know the media likes to fabricate and generate its stories out of next to nothing, I figured this was just one more of their magic tricks.
You have a fair point as well, Ken.
It is just that the "Love it or Leave it" refrain ( I have heard over some time from the other side) does not play well as an excuse to not listen, improve or repair.
They may be a certain amount of hoopla over this, but the President needs to be reflective on what he says and consider the ramifications of words before he utters them. As this problem continues to get him into trouble. You don't have to be PC, to use a little tact in communication.
Trump is clearly the tool being used to widen the divide in America.
Not that he shies away from making inflammatory statements.
But it is the media that is using the tool, the media itself is inciting and agitating every chance it gets.
Politicians are staking claim to extremist points. Omar, AOC, Booker, Sanders are becoming the center position of the Dems, while the "moderates" like Pelosi and Biden are considered too far Right.
So despite a looming economic crisis, which Trump seems to be trying to tackle head on, by standing firm against China and others... and to be clear, this should have been done long ago, but to do nothing now is to accept our economic downfall and retreat from the world stage to allow China to control the global economy, and to release control of our own destiny.
Bigger picture... where is this all leading us? Why is the media laboring so tirelessly to perpetuate the divides within us?
How do they get the American population to accept a version of China's Social Credit System? How do they get Americans to accept 80-90% taxation? How do they wage war against their own people, to strip them of their rights and freedoms?
First they need to remove the social commonalities that bind them, they need to divide them along racial lines, sexual identification, age groups, and whatever else they can come up with... "united we stand and divided we fall".
Who comes after Trump, and what are their political agendas?
Most likely, they will be someone willing to be the frontman for the return to globalization efforts and the handover of economic dominance on the world stage from America to China... and all that implies for the American citizens.
You don't think Trump divides America? Are you serious? It's Democrats this, Democrats that. There hasn't been a day when he has tried to unite the country and work across the aisle. The single greatest tool for a divisive America is Donald J. Trump.
And in raising tariffs on China, he is actually taxing Americans. And those tariffs have the double detriment of ruining the strong market that farmers had with China as they have gone to other countries, like Russia, for their supply now. Trump is wrecking the agricultural industry in this country and has forced 29 billion in socialist handouts to offset his policies. Not to mention every time he mentions tariffs the stock market slumps. If he didn't speak, the markets would be fine.
I am tired of hearing that Trump is good for the economy. Trump is NOT good for the economy.
People who voted for Trump, despite everything he has done and is doing, continue to justify their support by saying he has improved the economy.
I wish Democrats would confront this falsehood more strongly, and tell the true story.
When saying “Look how great the economy is doing ,” Trump and his supporters point to things like the stock market, jobs, GDP, and tax cuts.
Yes, let’s look:
• The average yearly S&P500 gain during the first two years of Trump (2017-2018) was 10%, but it was 14% during the Obama years (2009-2016)
• Trump’s best full year so far was 2017, but that was actually Before the Republican tax cuts. In that year the S&P 500 grew 19%. But that is less than Obama’s two best years (2009: 36%, 2013: 29%). By the way, the 2013 gain of 29%, occurred AFTER Obama/Biden drove a tax INCREASE in the top bracket.
• Trump had a horrible year in 2018, when the S&P500 actually dropped (-9%). This was the first full-year After implementing the Republican tax cut. There were no drops during any of the Obama years (his worst was 2011: flat).
• So the Obama yearly average was better. Obama’s best years were better. Trump’s worse year was worse.
• One positive for Trump is that by mid-2019 the market has recovered what it lost in 2018. However, the mid-2019 Y-to-Y increase is only 5%. Short-term volatility with poor long-term results. Businesses prefer a more predictable economic environment when making investment decision.
• More jobs were created during the Final 29 Months of the Obama presidency (221,000/month) than during the First 29 Months of the Trump presidency (194,000/month) -- 14% more.
• The Obama average is entirely After the Upper-bracket tax Increase driven by Obama/Biden (2012-end).
The most recent 17 months under Trump are After the Republican tax Cut.
In a recent interview, Trump said “the GDP is doing much better.” Where does “much better” come from?
• During the earliest 9 quarters of the Trump presidency, GDP growth averaged 2.7%
• During the 9 quarters that ended in mid-2016 (Obama’s final year and as the Obama recovery was fully taking hold), GDP growth averaged 2.7%
No clear leader here, except when you take into account the Trump 2.7% came at the cost of a massive tax cut and the risks of financial deregulation.
When confronted with any of this actual data in interviews, Trump falls back to “but Obama was living through a recovery, when it was easier to get good results.”
Oh, really? Easier? Obama (with the help of a Democratic-led congress in both houses 2009-2010) had to recover the US (and the rest of the world) from the worst financial disaster since the Depression, created by the Bush/Cheney policies (wars and earlier Republican tax cuts) and decades of financial deregulation that go back to the 1980’s.
All Trump really needed to do, was ride the wave of the strengthening economy generated by the Obama recovery- It could have been Easy! But he couldn’t even do that.
Instead, Trump has been inflicting real damage on the US economy:
• With Republicans, Trump, instituted a tax cut that went too far. Obama wanted to reduce corporate taxes from 35% to 28%, and that would have produced all the jobs benefits that have since happened, not needing to go deeper and upper-bracket individual tax cuts weren’t necessary. But the Republicans wanted more, and Trump wanted to screw the Democrats and cater to the wealthy, so he cut corporate taxes down to 21%, well beyond the 28% that Obama wanted. Trump’s corporate windfall has simply led to share buybacks, higher dividend payouts, executive bonuses, and money that isn’t even accounted for – these things primarily help the wealthy. And of course the individual tax cuts primarily help the wealthy. If these tax cuts helped the actual economy you would expect it to show itself with a better Stock Market, Jobs, and GDP – but the numbers simply don’t support that.
• Trump’s approach to trade policy has been a disaster. Is there anyone out there who still doesn’t understand that a tariff on goods from China or the EU, is a tax increase paid by the American consumer? And no, it is not paid by China, or the EU. China’s reciprocal tariff’s hurt American businesses and farmers. And If the tariff leads to buying a higher price product made elsewhere, the consumer is paying a higher price. What about all this doesn’t Trump get? Trump likes to say that this is adding American jobs, but the Jobs numbers don’t show any such thing.
• Financial deregulation all over again. It has been only 11 years since the 2008 financial collapse. How can Trump and the Republicans ignore this recent history so blatantly and irresponsibly? Remember the definition of insanity?
• The 2017 tax cuts balloon the federal deficit and are adding $1 Trillion to the National Debt per year. Interest on the Debt becomes an increasing portion of Federal spending. This gets even worse as interest rates normalize to historically sustainable levels – it’s simple math. During both the Obama and the Clinton presidencies, federal budget deficits decreased. But during Trump, and further back during both Bush’es and Reagan, the Federal deficits increased.
Ken said this:
!. Trump is clearly the tool being used to widen the divide in America.
2. Not that he shies away from making inflammatory statements.
Number one is FALSE, the ONLY thing Bozo Trump appears to be competent at is "Widening the Divide in America", it's unconstitutional just like almost everything else this circus clown does and he needs no help from the media for that: CRYING and MOANING about how the "MEDIA" is out to get him as I've seen in one of his Morbidly BORING Predictable and UNTRUE ads on social media will get him closer to being REMOVED from our oval office and that's about it:
Number two is TRUE and it's just one more reason WHY he needs to be REMOVED ASAP before this once great country falls into TOTAL COLLAPSE: Level Headed, Rational, Sane, Lucid, Intelligent LEGITIMATE Presidents which Donald is not, always do their very best to AVOID making inflammatory statements which only incite VIOLENCE, Hate and DARKNESS:
When he led off the tweet with the 'Progressive Democrats,' it was apparent that he was talking about the four freshman members of the House that Fox News had been highlighting (more like gaslighting) all week. It was media driven, but just another example of Trump taking his lead from Fox News.
The original tweet was singular in nature. The others jumped in...I guess maybe they felt guilty? Who knows
Wait a minute....
So someone comes from a war torn country, run by savage gangs and filled with the worst kinds of violence and crimes against humanity...
They come to America, and start spouting off how awful it is here, how evil our President is, etc. and no one is supposed to be critical?
America has one of the highest standards of living and social support in the world... for all people want to complain, its not like you can travel all across the world and find it better in any but a handful of small nations.
And most of those nations won't be taking in migrants, they don't want them. Big ones like China refuse them, and small ones like Poland do to, they don't want the rest of the world's problems... they can stay in their own country and fix it, or not, but they won't be going to China, or Japan, or Poland, etc. to escape it.
It's not about race... I don't care if they are from Georgia or Somalia be thankful you are here or go back and deal with the country you came from.
The fact that 99% of Americans don't feel that way is just a sign that our culture and society is fragmenting and failing, and our nation is fast tracking its decline.
Did you really just say it's not about race, and then in the same sentence say that American citizens can go back to the country they came from? A statement used mostly towards minorities in this country as a form of racism?
How about if you don't like things about America, elect politicians that will foment change. Volunteer. Give to charity. This love my way or get out is about as un-American as you can get. America is a place of various cultures. And if you think people are going to be happy with open xenophobia and racism, and should just accept those things or leave, you clearly don't understand what it should mean to be American.
Trump is not a racist.
The Republican Party is not avoiding the truth.
"For those that do like him only says you too are racist and sexist etc as well.."
For those who believe that statement/accusation, they believe something which is utterly ridiculous.
For clarification I did used to like trump as an entertainer but when he wanted to have black professionals and white professionals compete on the apprentice, I could no longer respect him and he even took it further the whites had to be women with blonde hair and blue eyes. He not only was racist towards blacks he was even racist toward whites that did not have blue eyes and blonde hair.
As far as being sexist he proves it when he is to speak about women. Especially when he wanted to know how big his own daughter boobs will be when she grew up..
https://hubpages.com/politics/Influence … nce-Policy
Here is my proof of his hatred towards others
I read this twice...And I don't see proof of hate...regardless of a person...maybe I am missing something?
But, this hub does point out that congress aren't doing their job in correcting our immigration laws.
Double Scorpion (love the name)
Thank you for reading my article, it points out his hatred towards immigration. He feels immigrants do not deserve asylum seeking if they cross illegally, why? He feels all of them are criminals and rapist when many of them are running from violence and to provide safety for their children. I did not need to include all his comments about them but I am providing his actions based on his hate towards them.
"He feels all of them are criminals and rapist"
Spouting untruths and outright lies does not lend credence to your comments. No one on earth believes that all of the illegal aliens entering this country are criminals (outside of the obvious criminality of ignoring immigration laws of course) OR rapists. Not even a majority of them.
The only real question, then, is why you would make the statement that Trump thinks they all are. Is it just more Trump bashing without regard to reality? Is there some other reason?
"He never was a good deal maker, he's been bankrupt and many of his projects fail."
"He made a mess of Atlantic city with his casinos."
"Then he moves on, with loans from China (American banks won't lend him money) and leaves ghost towns behind."
what's your point, besides gossiping?
It's not gossip if it's true, Kathy. Do you know anything at all about the Donald before he became POTUS? You seem completely ignorant of his past life. Please enlighten us with what you actually know about Trump as most of his fans are completely ignorant of his many faults.
He promised to be a great deal maker. He pretends to be very rich. He's not. He can't make good deals, he fails, he only knows how to malign and blackmail people into doing what he wants. What I said wasn't gossip, it's the truth about his business skills which people near his stomping grounds of NY already knew. Also of his serial cheating and misogyny.
what has he D O N E since becoming POTUS that is so terrible?
(Not, "What has he done previously or tweeted recently.")
If he wants to build relationships with dictators, its better for us to be friendly and communicative, don't you think?
How come you don't count Netanyahu? who is our Allie and is not pissed off at all?
Haven't you heard Kate, both Netanyahu and his wife are in serious legal trouble. And I don't consider Israel much of an ally in the first place. Israel was given to the Jews to protect our interest in the oil fields in the middle east.
Why do you think we gave them nukes in the first place?
oh, Good Grief, like the Israeli people didn't need and desperately want a homeland.
You really do not have a clue do you, Kate? Tell me what you know about BP if you're so smart....
We need them as Allies, which they are. We need to protect them as they are democratic people who care about justice and freedom ... in the Middle East where there is so little!
Yes, they are tribal as Palestinians are, but they have a right to the land which was given to them. (But, they do need to respect Palestinian land/boundaries.)
So, like Trump, you don't care if Netanyahu and his wife are crooks, Kate? What lofty ideals you possess....
You see the little thorns and nothing else. You must see the bigger picture, which you do NOT!
You are the one that wants to see the world with shaved-off thorns.
Bare naked branches.
Sorry about that. Just don't reach out and touch them.
You'll be okay.
I want to see the truth, Kate. Something your party tries to ignore. I don't blame you as you've elected a criminal for a POTUS who doesn't care much for the truth either.
Anyone who votes for Trump must be a racist...
Anyone who votes for Trump must be a Republican...
No... and No...
Randy you seem to have a penchant for wanting to lump everyone into groups and attach labels, but its not that simple, and you are no less a bigot, racist, sexist than anyone else for the trying.
You can't blame US and Israel for blowing other countries up and
creating poverty. It built in their Christian/Zionist DNA starting by giving money to the wealthy.
I met some kids (Millennials) from Russia the other day, hiking up at Switzer's / swimming in the Falls. They were vacationing in CA for a couple of weeks. It was nice they were so friendly and open to us and not hateful or suspicious. They were having a great time in California.
HEADLINES **** "We Can't Mute Trump, But We Can Turn Off Fox News" **** The DNC has already "Turned Them OFF" by BANNING white nationalist leaning Fox Channel from the Democratic Debates, what a resfreshing way to protest and demonstrate to the world that the overwhelming majority of Americans are appalled by their racist overtones, deceptive fear mongering backward talking head attacks on our HealthCARE System and INSTITUTIONS and insane support for soon to be IMPEACHED Donald Trump: If Fox News were a legitimate news outlet they would have been calling for the Immediate REMOVAL of Donald long ago:
"We Can't Mute Trump, But We Can Turn Off Fox News:
https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2019/0 … greenfield
I definitely agree a lot of these constitute his racist views.
How this man is still in office after everything he has done is literally unbelievable.
"As I mentioned, it has become popular to think only Caucasians can be racist. "
This is how a two-time Obama voter, and someone who is not a Trump supporter can grow very tired of the Democratic party. This is how Democrats loose election enthusiasm and give Trump a chance in 2020.
Yeah, only white people can be racist. There's no such thing as reverse racism.
Racism is a system in which a dominant race benefits off the oppression of others — whether they want to or not, in this case it's white people. Yes, white people all over the world and throughout history have experienced atrocities like slavery and persecution, but in American history, white people have not been enslaved, colonized, or forced to segregate on the scale that people of color have. I'm not saying they don't experience poverty or police brutality at all. Just not on the same scale. That is the reality of racism.
Rather than acknowledge the realities of racism and it's effect on people of color, white racists do mental gymnastics to justify these injustices.
Racism is often intermixed with prejudice and ignorance, which is where the confusion comes from. People of color can have a prejudice against white people. We can also have ignorant beliefs against other people of color or white people, but we don't benefit. We still deal with systemic racism.
Wow, exactly what I'm referring to. And written as though this is as much a fact as gravity. This is the type of counterproductive talk that will ensure Trump wins re-election.
You don't benefit? That's simply not true.
There are many people of color in my area who have more power/influence than I. They can use this power/influence to help out a minority, as opposed to me, just because of my race. This ranges from allowing people to skip over me in line, to not getting certain types of assistance, etc. etc.---That's the reality of racism. And, I've even heard people of color tell me this.
Nothing was ever handed to me so, no I don't have white privilege. Can you tell me how to get some?
Americans of all backgrounds should be seeking commonality not doing mind-bending logic in order to justify making our differences more divisive.
You justified prejudice and racism against whites as you say white racists do to people of color.
Systemic racism really dose exist in America. If you take overall, every family income from every race in America. It works out on average a white families makes ten times greater income than browns and black race.
There is only a couple of black billionaire's in America. America is not truly free and democracy society. It belong in the hands of the few white people, it's always has been the largest white population country in the world in the last century. Yet times r a changin.
It is a fact. Reaffirmed by the civil rights division of the Department of Justice, most notably in 2016 when affirmative action was under review in the Supreme court. To say it's not is to dismiss the extensive work they've done within the educational system overall, the effects of housing discrimination, employment discrimination and most notably criminal statues protecting civil rights.
This isn't just an opinion.
Okay so you live in a community where people of color have influence. That's great. That's not a nationwide systemic issue.
Someone getting to skip you over in a line isn't the same as systemic racism. Some of the very real effects are the widening of the achievement gap based on racial stereotypes, as outlined by the National Association of School Psychologists and the U.S. Office for Civil Rights.
It is employment discrimination provided by Northwestern University, Harvard, and the Institute for Social Research in Norway producing 24 studies with 30 estimates of discrimination for black and Latino Americans.
You do have white privilege. Your failure to recognize it is another issue. One you should hold yourself accountable for.
By dismissing the countless hours of research, the various studies conducted, and the findings of a government institution (not without its faults) you've solidified your stance and negated the injustices people of color face. This incredulous stance on an evidentiary based thesis and its quick disregard is such a juxtaposition in conversation between one held on the internet and the other in an educational institution.
I don't have white privilege...can you give me some? I haven't dismissed anything but the hate coming from both the right and the left as the left is clearly full of racists as well. I've felt very real effects of many "isms" include nepotism. And, yes racists of all colors are nationwide and systemic.
"I don't have white privilege...can you give me some?"
It's not the burden of the brutalized to comfort the bystander. Again, you do have white privilege. Your failure to recognize it is another issue. One you should hold yourself accountable for.
Yes, I agree the left has racist people as well. All of course are white. Because like I said, there's no such thing as reverse racism.
If the "hate" and "racism" you're feeling is a thinly veiled insult at me, 1. there's not hate, I'm just calling out your privilege and presenting you with actual facts, not opinions, allegories, or analogies. 2. racism-again not possible. If you're feeling attacked and uncomfortable you should ask yourself why.
Again, I agree. I've felt the very real effects of many ism, and nepotism as well. Particularly with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner.
No, there are not racist of all colors. Coming straight from the Civil Rights Division from the Department of Justice. Let me repeat, the department of Justice, who have funded several studies carried out by prestigious universities. I don't understand how this is still an issue. Please present your case. I have the time today. I don't have to grade any undergrads papers.
The native leaders were right. The vast majority of Americans are all locked up on the Indian Resversation, including most whites.
If we can only counter those greedy faceless white bastards.
The 1994 Rwanda genocide. Put a big F on your paper. And your use of the word White people. Screams your not only racist. But color blind. white and black are not skin tones.
I married a Mexican midget and dated mostly non whites. Traveled over a 100 countries kind of colour blind. All races have brown in the tone of their skin and all races have black in their DNA
Your going to compare Rwanda to the US world history greatest genocide of American natives. Or the 400 year world greatest oversea slave trade to the Americas.
How about the civil war mostly about National Union of corportism, that kill more Americans than world war did.
Only time they fought white people because it was America job to own the world from Germany. American have been fighting wars 93% of the time since Washington. Only won the Mexican war because of Six shooters. Guns are an insane tradition.
The United States is a young country the world is much older than us we did not invent warfare or slavery. That is The human condition dynasty
And Rwanda is an example of racial genocide committed by people of color against other people of color
and only 7% of slaves taken from Africa at the time came to the United States only 1% of Americans at the time owned slaves 40% went to Brazil. And as far as modern-day slavery goes Africa is still King and it ain't a white man doing it
And listen you called your wife or former wife a Mexican midget I'm pretty sure that's not politically correct these days .
And there is no more such thing as the civil Rights movement it died with Martin now what we have is the NWA.. if you are taking your lead from a department of Justice study. You are what we call under control. And if you are a teacher teaching that kind of crap you are pissing in the pool.
What is NWA, a hip hop group?
If anyone tried to take away any of my human rights, they have surprise coming. No sheep dogs allowed in my backyard.
Hate speech is a menace to democratic values, social stability, and peace. It spreads like wildfire through social media, the internet, and unfactual conspiracy theories.”
In my community and dealing with the world, hate is just ignore if persistent as it loses its fear and power. Hate leads to harm or murder.
What happens when you pin up rage and hate never express your anger or hatred. What happens when you do that
Many tried to get me upset in world sculptor competitions.
I would gather all this negative energy and keep the fire underenth and redirected toward positive work. Wail my challenger lost power.
Good guys are longer lasting.
Only place I see a lot of hate in my community is on social media and national news
You know what I hate I hate people that are not punctual
You know what I see a lot of on the internet? a constant deluge of hateful people making hateful comments about the president and a hundred seventy million people in the United States. I see people hating Russians without ever meeting one.I see people crying about a 5 billion dollar wall that won't kill anyone while not saying a word about a trillion dollar military budget that has killed over a million innocent lately. This push to deny us of our well-founded hatred and expression of it. Is unacceptable and will not stand.
Miramar, the darfur in Africa.? How does the United Nations define genocide. Again you get a Big Fat F.
There’s so much to unpack here.
I don’t understand why you’re bringing up the 1994 Rwandan genocide when it has nothing to do with American politics, but since you’ve brought it up lets discuss it. Yeah, it was a horrible moment in history, but it shouldn’t be looked at as single incident without precedent or cause. If you’re gonna discuss the Rwandan genocide, you cannot leave out that problems arose in 1916 when the Belgiums colonized the area and introduced identity cards creating a dichotomy between the Hutu and the Tutsi. They claimed the Tutsi were superior and gave them access to better jobs and educational employment. The Belgiums exploited a schism between the two groups. When they were kicked out the Hutus sought revenge.
“Screams your not only racist.” Again, no.
“white and black are not skin tones,” I know what you’re alluding to here.
Edward Telles and Tianna Paschel American Journal of Sociology, look it up.
Agreed, no one stated the US invented war or slavery. It certainly has benefited from both.
Your repeated use of the “only” minimizes the affect slavery had on this nation. Which is both worrying and sobering. Again, why bring up another country when discussing American politics? If you want to discuss Brazil, sure let’s go ahead. Once more, you overlook the colonial injustices and its effect on the population and how it has come to shape modern day society there. To insert a number about slavery regarding this nation and fail to mention current racial structures and how internalized racism has endured over the centuries is negligent.
I won’t even touch on Africa because I’ve already set up a pattern for you here.
The amount of privilege you must have to state that people of color aren’t still fighting for their civil rights is outstanding. What do you think social movements are?
“You are what we call under control.” Truly confusing. And “study,” no thousands of studies conducted by various universities, lead by researchers in their field, amalgamated through the civil rights division. Yes, I know crazy, we still have a civil rights division even after Kings death.
Darfur, you continue this pattern.
People of color can most certainly be racist and commit genocide while doing it. It's not really a lot to digest
Under control means being partial to department of Justice studies.
And as far as screams of racist. You are complicit with implicit bias.
in myCity people of color are not fighting for their civil rights they are getting gunned down in the street by their brethren. And Let me tell you this .life is hard for everyone. Cancer doesn't care what color you are. Poverty doesn't either. Your caste system of oppression is bigoted
I encourage you to reread my previous statements because you've fallen to the same patterns and I've already addressed this.
Particularly this statement, amalgamated through the civil rights division, when discussing my partiality.
On implicit bias- https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html
On black and black crime-
Edward S. Shihadeh, Nicole Flynn, Segregation and Crime: The Effect of Black Social Isolation on the Rates of Black Urban Violence, Social Forces, Volume 74, Issue 4, June 1996, Pages 1325–1352,
DeAngelo, Gregory; Gittings, Kai; Ross, Amanda; and Walker, Annie, "Police Bias in the Enforcement of Drug Crimes: Evidence from Low Priority Laws" (2016). Economics Faculty Working Papers Series. 32.
There is definitely crime racism profileing. Probably 6 to 10 times (per capita) higher on blacks. I don't see this much in Canada.
Calling out the privilege of someone you don't know seems kind of prejudicial, and could even help bring about racist behavior. Your assessment of my personal privilege is not thinly veiled at all. Once again, I was handed nothing..no home, no job, nothing.
What the heck does anyone expect the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Injustice to state? That's akin to using the UAW's statement on how you cannot underestimate the importance of unions to the American economy. Shepherds guard the flock..that's what they are supposed to do.
At any rate, I find this entire train of thought counter-productive to the advancement of the rights of ALL under-privileged Americans, brown, white, Catholic or atheist. I've graded under-grad papers. Does this increase my credentials on the matter? My time was limited today as I was busy working my tail off to support my "privilege."
Can I make inferences as to your privilege based on your being a teacher, or any other generality? If it works for one generality, it can work for others.
Once again: You don't fight racism with racism, the best way to fight racism is with solidarity. - Bobby Seale. I guess he forgot to ask the Department of Justice.
Oh it’s not thinly veiled, I’m calling out your white privilege and your refusal to acknowledge its existence. White privilege doesn’t mean you haven’t faced any obstacles, it means the problems in your life weren’t made worse or exist in the first place because of the color of your skin.
I’m not even going to address the comparison between the UAW and the Civil Rights Division, it’s erroneous. Feel free to look below for references though.
I would argue that, trying to advance the rights of all Americans who experience oppression, yet refusing to acknowledge basic issues they face is counter productive. Sure, if you’ve written anything on social political matters or any references you have, I’d be happy to look at them and we can delve into that.
Yes, of course you can. I have no issues addressing my privileges, none of which were provided because of the color of my skin.
The quote in its entirety is ““We do not fight racism with racism. We fight racism with solidarity. We do not fight exploitative capitalism with black capitalism. We fight capitalism with basic socialism. We fight imperialism with proletarian internationalism.”
Since you’ve graded undergrad papers I can infer you’re used to researching different topics. I’ll let you research Bobby Seale’s entire life of activism and not just use one quote.
On white privilege- McIntosh, P. (2003). White privilege: Unpacking the invisible knapsack. In S. Plous (Ed.), Understanding prejudice and discrimination (pp. 191-196). New York, NY, US: McGraw-Hill.
Kendall, Frances. Understanding white privilege: Creating pathways to authentic relationships across race. Routledge, 2012.
Jensen, Robert. The heart of whiteness: Confronting race, racism and white privilege. City Lights Books, 2005.
Rodriguez, Nelson M., and Leila E. Villaverde. Dismantling White Privilege: Pedagogy, Politics, and Whiteness. Counterpoints: Studies in the Postmodern Theory of Education, Vol. 73. Peter Lang Publishing, 275 Seventh Avenue, 28th Floor, New York, NY 10001, 2000.
Wallis, Jim. America's original sin: Racism, white privilege, and the bridge to a new America. Brazos Press, 2016.
On studies compiled on social justice issues-
Cabrera, Nolan León. "Exposing Whiteness in higher education: White male college students minimizing racism, claiming victimization, and recreating White supremacy." Race Ethnicity and Education 17.1 (2014): 30-55.
Roussell, A., Henne, K., Glover, K. S., & Willits, D. (2017). Impossibility of a “Reverse Racism” Effect. Criminology & Public Policy.
Pincus, Fred L. Reverse discrimination: Dismantling the myth. Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2003.
Sacks, David O., and Peter A. Thiel. The Diversity Myth." Multiculturalism" and the Politics of Intolerance at Stanford. The Independent Institute, 134 Ninety-Eighth Avenue, Oakland, CA 94603, 1995.
Israel, Ariella, and Raymond Arthur Smith. "The Myth of Reverse Racism Against European Americans with Higher Socio-Economic Status." (2015).
Peens, Michelle, and Bernard Dubbeld. "Troubled Transformation: Whites, Welfare, and'Reverse-Racism'in Contemporary Newcastle." Diversities 15.2 (2013).
You can site papers all day long in order to justify your prejudiced and continued racial profiling of me. However, I refuse to be labeled in such a way by a system that you propose knows me. See how this works? Most of us don't like prejudice and racism and social justice applies to ALL of us.
Apparently you have the privilege to racial profile people all day long. This is where the problem comes in.
Oh, and your continuation of the Seale quote doesn't change its meaning as it applies to racial profiling, which is what you are doing. Where's the solidarity?
I'm not stating racism, and the struggles caused by it, don't exist. I acknowledge this. You are stating non-privileged white people don't exist and refuse to acknowledge otherwise. Instead of accepting that I acknowledge the struggles of racism you have to state that I am privileged. I propose that you would advance your cause better if you looked at, and framed your argument, a bit differently.
Take care, and I implore you to open your heart to diversity. Prejudice only serve to fuel prejudice...so I don't think your helping your cause at all. Unless your cause it to set race relations back 75 years.
Whether you agree that whites should feel this way or not, how does it help the cause of anyone to go out of your way to perpetuate these feelings? We all have individual stories and familial backgrounds that are not solely defined by race.
Whites See Racism as a Zero-Sum Game That They Are Now Losing
Michael I. Norton, Samuel R. SommersFirst Published May 18, 2011 Review Article
You can label me however you want because in the long term, much like late 90’s and early 2000’s, sitcoms, those labels won’t age well. Not when used against people of color.
Privilege isn’t linear, there are degrees to it. I absolutely have stated that white people face disadvantages. In fact my words were:
White privilege doesn’t mean you haven’t faced any obstacles, it means the problems in your life weren’t made worse or exist in the first place because of the color of your skin.
By obstacles I meant: poverty, hunger, income insecurity, sexism, affordable housing, access to healthcare, access to affordable education, etc.
Women in this country are more likely to die from childbirth than almost every other Western industrialized nation. This is a problem ALL women face. White privilege comes into play when you look at the difference in percentages. White women’s survival rate is much higher than those of women of color. This is largely due to two reasons, the first, women of color tend to be believed a lot less, or physicians feel they exaggerate their pain, than white women. Secondly, white women have access to better hospitals than women of color.
“Open my heart up to diversity.” I’m a queer woman of color, raised in poverty, who somehow managed to escape it and end up in Los Angeles working on a dissertation. That’s as diverse as it gets.
You asked how I feel this helps the cause, but your article is the reason why I engage. There’s no hate for white people. There’s no denial of your struggles. All that’s asked is an acknowledgment of white privilege.
I think I didn't make my point very well. Labeling an entire group of people as privileged isn't going to get any of us anywhere. Maybe it's better if you speak of the disadvantages that minorities face as opposed to putting those labels upon a group of people, of which so many are currently downtrodden. I already acknowledged all of this, but you insist that I acknowledge I'm privileged. Do you see how this is taken and how it is counterproductive to goals of equality? Your form of engagement is why such articles, as the one I linked, exist.
At any rate, the life expectancy of whites is going down in the US. It's blamed on the opiate crisis. I had a judge tell me he was coming down on me harder because I had privilege. I was born with all the obstacles you speak of, so what privilege was he referring to? My skin color is the only conclusion I can find. It's dangerous to classify people solely base on skin color. You would think ALL people would understand this.
Diversity includes not auto-labeling white men as privileged. So, no, I don' think that's as diverse as it gets.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/life-expec … ly-in-u-s/
In reference to white women:
""Life expectancy for that population has remained stagnant for some time now," Elizabeth Arias, Ph.D., the statistician at the National Center for Health Statistics who analyzed the data, told CBS News. "Whereas other groups have seen increases or haven't seen such long periods of no change at all."
We all have our struggles. Minimizing the struggles of an entire race..not helpful. I commend you for your accomplishments with no caveats....could you do the same for me?
Yes, you can't blame a whole race.
I plan to beat the greedy white gangs at their own game, without the bad ethics. I call them greedy white gangs like the race gangs in prison. Except they know how to hide behind the vast majority of crimes, the occupational crimes.
It is the ancient tradition of the grass root power of the people throughout human history. Grass Roots people have made the vast majority of positive change, not the politicans, as you probably know.
I feel Jojo has good intentions, yet has not figure out how to simplified it to be manageable.
Yes, I agree on Jojo's likely intentions and real grassroots movements are the catalysts of positive change for the masses. It's unfortunate that so many of them are hijacked by other interests these days.
The power of the people is stronger if we are united.
I'll leave you with this:
Having white privilege and recognizing it is not racist. But white privilege exists because of historic, enduring racism and biases. Therefore, defining white privilege also requires finding working definitions of racism and bias.
One helpful definition comes from Matthew Clair and Jeffrey S. Denis’s “Sociology on Racism.” They define racism as “individual- and group-level processes and structures that are implicated in the reproduction of racial inequality.” Systemic racism happens when these structures or processes are carried out by groups with power, such as governments, businesses or schools. Racism differs from bias, which is a conscious or unconscious prejudice against an individual or group based on their identity.
Basically, racial bias is a belief. Racism is what happens when that belief translates into action. For example, a person might unconsciously or consciously believe that people of color are more likely to commit crime or be dangerous. That’s a bias. A person might become anxious if they perceive a black person is angry. That stems from a bias. These biases can become racism through a number of actions ranging in severity, and ranging from individual- to group-level responses:
A person crosses the street to avoid walking next to a group of young black men.
A person calls 911 to report the presence of a person of color who is otherwise behaving lawfully.
A police officer shoots an unarmed person of color because he “feared for his life.”
A jury finds a person of color guilty of a violent crime despite scant evidence.
A federal intelligence agency prioritizes investigating black and Latino activists rather than investigate white supremacist activity.
Both racism and bias rely on what sociologists call racialization. This is the grouping of people based on perceived physical differences, such as skin tone. This arbitrary grouping of people, historically, fueled biases and became a tool for justifying the cruel treatment and discrimination of non-white people. Colonialism, slavery and Jim Crow laws were all sold with junk science and propaganda that claimed people of a certain “race” were fundamentally different from those of another—and they should be treated accordingly. And while not all white people participated directly in this mistreatment, their learned biases and their safety from such treatment led many to commit one of those most powerful actions: silence.
And just like that, the trauma, displacement, cruel treatment and discrimination of people of color, inevitably, gave birth to white privilege.
White privilege is—perhaps most notably in this era of uncivil discourse—a concept that has fallen victim to its own connotations. The two-word term packs a double whammy that inspires pushback. 1) The word white creates discomfort among those who are not used to being defined or described by their race. And 2) the word privilege, especially for poor and rural white people, sounds like a word that doesn’t belong to them—like a word that suggests they have never struggled.
This defensiveness derails the conversation, which means, unfortunately, that defining white privilege must often begin with defining what it’s not. Otherwise, only the choir listens; the people you actually want to reach check out. White privilege is not the suggestion that white people have never struggled. Many white people do not enjoy the privileges that come with relative affluence, such as food security. Many do not experience the privileges that come with access, such as nearby hospitals.
And white privilege is not the assumption that everything a white person has accomplished is unearned; most white people who have reached a high level of success worked extremely hard to get there. Instead, white privilege should be viewed as a built-in advantage, separate from one’s level of income or effort.
Francis E. Kendall, author of Diversity in the Classroom and Understanding White Privilege: Creating Pathways to Authentic Relationships Across Race, comes close to giving us an encompassing definition: “having greater access to power and resources than people of color [in the same situation] do.”
The subtle versions of white privilege are often used as a comfortable, easy entry point for people who might push back against the concept. That is why they remain so popular. These are simple, everyday things, conveniences white people aren’t forced to think about.
These often-used examples include:
The first-aid kit having “flesh-colored” Band-Aids that only match the skin tone of white people.
The products white people need for their hair being in the aisle labeled “hair care” rather than in a smaller, separate section of “ethnic hair products.”
The grocery store stocking a variety of food options that reflect the cultural traditions of most white people.
But the root of these problems is often ignored. These types of examples can be dismissed by white people who might say, “My hair is curly and requires special product,” or “My family is from Poland, and it’s hard to find traditional Polish food at the grocery store.”
This may be true. But the reason even these simple white privileges need to be recognized is that the damage goes beyond the inconvenience of shopping for goods and services. These privileges are symbolic of what we might call “the power of normal.” If public spaces and goods seem catered to one race and segregate the needs of people of other races into special sections, that indicates something beneath the surface.
White people become more likely to move through the world with an expectation that their needs be readily met. People of color move through the world knowing their needs are on the margins. Recognizing this means recognizing where gaps exist.
White people are also more likely to see positive portrayals of people who look like them on the news, on TV shows and in movies. They are more likely to be treated as individuals, rather than as representatives of (or exceptions to) a stereotyped racial identity. In other words, they are more often humanized and granted the benefit of the doubt. They are more likely to receive compassion, to be granted individual potential, to survive mistakes.
This has negative effects for people of color, who, without this privilege, face the consequences of racial profiling, stereotypes and lack of compassion for their struggles.
In these scenarios, white privilege includes the facts that:
White people are less likely to be followed, interrogated or searched by law enforcement because they look “suspicious.”
White people’s skin tone will not be a reason people hesitate to trust their credit or financial responsibility.
If white people are accused of a crime, they are less likely to be presumed guilty, less likely to be sentenced to death and more likely to be portrayed in a fair, nuanced manner by media outlets (see the #IfTheyGunnedMeDown campaign).
The personal faults or missteps of white people will likely not be used to later deny opportunities or compassion to people who share their racial identity.
This privilege is invisible to many white people because it seems reasonable that a person should be extended compassion as they move through the world. It seems logical that a person should have the chance to prove themselves individually before they are judged. It’s supposedly an American ideal.
But it’s a privilege often not granted to people of color—with dire consequences.
Just as people of color did nothing to deserve this unequal treatment, white people did not “earn” disproportionate access to compassion and fairness. They receive it as the byproduct of systemic racism and bias.
And even if they are not aware of it in their daily lives as they walk along the streets, this privilege is the result of conscious choices made long ago and choices still being made today.
These powers would not exist if systemic racism hadn’t come first. And systemic racism cannot endure unless those powers still hold sway.
You can imagine it as something of a whiteness water cycle, wherein racism is the rain. That rain populates the earth, giving some areas more access to life and resources than others. The evaporation is white privilege—an invisible phenomenon that is both a result of the rain and the reason it keeps going.
In that way, white privilege is not just the power to find what you need in a convenience store or to move through the world without your race defining your interactions. It’s not just the subconscious comfort of seeing a world that serves you as normal. It’s also the power to remain silent in the face of racial inequity. It’s the power to weigh the need for protest or confrontation against the discomfort or inconvenience of speaking up. It’s getting to choose when and where you want to take a stand. It’s knowing that you and your humanity are safe.
This argument comes off as very similar to the ones presented by white racist organizations. Labeling an entire group of people as anything is not productive to any discussion meant to help race relations. Even after all the justifying and bending of logic, no one is going to convince me, or the majority of Americans otherwise.
You are 100% wrong in saying that white people don't have to deal with being prejudged.
You are also 100% wrong when you write:
"The personal faults or missteps of white people will likely not be used to later deny opportunities or compassion to people who share their racial identity."
--Try being a white man straight out of prison. And, there are millions of us. When that criminal record comes across a desk...it doesn't matter if your black, white, or purple. Try being the white man who didn't get a fair trial. Your argument of "less likely" will go nowhere with them. They are in the situation they are in mo matter their color Minimizing the struggles of whites will only cause other races more problems...when we could be coming together.
Your talk is divisive and dangerous. Remember when I was met with crickets after stating I commend you for your accomplishments, can you do the same? You could not. Why? Because of my skin color is what I gather.
In fact, I think you know stating all whites are privileged is wrong and that's why you now choose to put in the caveat "many" white people. I think that is progress toward a path that is more likely to serve ALL of us in a better way. The white privilege talk serves to fuel white nationalism.
I hope the best for you, and that you can find an open heart in these matters.
You don't fight racism with racism, the best way to fight racism is with solidarity. - Bobby Seale.
Yes, it is better to confront racism from the powers and love within. Being an artist, we are the lowest paid professional in the world, below pensioners. It take 12,000 sculptors for one who can make a living at it.
I turned into a millionaire anyways. Don't know if I would make it if I was born black in America. Living in Canada would help.
Not gonna address the first part because my previous statements speak for themselves.
"Try being a white man straight out of prison." I suggest you do extensive research on criminal proceedings. Yes, the justice system is flawed and hurts EVERY person that goes through it, but I'd ask you talk to brown and black people about their experiences with the criminal justice system and compare it by large to their white counterparts. Not on a micro scale.
It it neither divisive and dangerous. It is looking at system which is broken, acknowledging its issues, and trying to move forward from that.
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
In regards to your last statement, I'd also point out that when you are used to playing the victim equality feels like oppression.
This is so true. No matter the form of victim-hood begin played out. I make a concerted effort not to turn myself into a victim despite what I sometimes see as me being handed a bad deck. I know others have been handed much worse decks. People of ALL colors that is.
I've been identified as a hard pressed skeptic but I'll be darned if I'll ever identify as a victim.
This ridiculous mantra that being white means privileged makes me wonder if maybe we all have different opinions of what the definition of privileged is.
It seems Jojo's definition of privileged is just being white and no amount of circumstance can change that. As I stated before, I'll sit out the 2020 Presidential election before I vote for anyone who claims that I'm privileged. Regardless of definition, I refuse to accept that label based on my color...as should everyone!
Hard Sun, when we talk about people making themselves victim and being dealt from a bad deck.
We had the holocaust during during the time of Nazi germany
We had thousands of Japanese Nisei arrested and incarcerated without due process after Pearl Harbor
The African American experience and the savagery of vaunted institutions and the majority culture toward them comes to mind.
So there is more involved than just randomly drawing a bad card from a deck. For many the entire deck is deliberately tainted and it was contrived and orchestrated by the perpetrators with that intent in mind.
I'm not understanding this one Credence. if one is discriminated against because of his or her race it's not being dealt a bad deck. However, if one is discriminated against because he or she is say, born to a lower economic class, or maybe born to a family with a certain last name, etc...this IS being dealt a bad hand?
These are the things I speak of. Any bad hand I was dealt--if I want to even see it that way-- would go back to the fact that I was born of the family and place I was born into. Maybe we just have some wires crossed. I had no more choice as to this as did a person of color choose to be born a person of color.
If my, widely varied, ancestry was systematically and intentionally left out of things what difference does it make? I'm still in the lot that I'm in, due to no fault of my own.
I'm not understanding this one Credence. if one is discriminated against because of his or her race it's not being dealt a bad deck. However, if one is discriminated against because he or she is say, born to a lower economic class, or maybe born to a family with a certain last name, etc...this IS being dealt a bad hand?
I may be misunderstanding here, Hard Sun. You said, " if one is discriminated against because of his or her race it is not being dealt a bad deck". I think that it is a bad deck.
I am not denying the significance of socio-economic factors or even not having the Right last name.
But is it all encompassing though, segregated, inferior or no school at all, redlining to keep blacks from buying homes in certain parts of town, being denied the right to the franchise or suffering through Institutional racism practices that had risen to the highest levels of our government that is supposed to be there as protection.?
I recall an account from late crooner, Nat King Cole, of wanting to buy a home in Beverly Hills and regardless of his wealth, fame and success, he suffered vicious discrimination and racism in the process. So in what circumstances could we ever pull a "good card"? There would have certainly been less hassle about Jed Clampett and his hillbilly family moving in to Beverly Hills.
I am aware that circumstances are not as egregious or as prevalent today, I am just making a point.
Do you understand my point or am I still missing something? Let's see if we can't untangle the wires?
I may be misunderstanding here, Hard Sun. You said, " if one is discriminated against because of his or her race it is not being dealt a bad deck". I think that it is a bad deck.
Hi Credence. The above was bad wording on my part. I do think it's being dealt a bad deck. I was referring to what I thought you meant in your previous comment, which I misunderstood.
I appreciate your explanation, and I don't think I have an argument with you now that I better understand your position. My point was simply that people of all races can be dealt a ban hand. Of course, a white person's bad hand has never been about institutional racism, despite there being a chance that a racist decision may come down against him or her. It's not the same thing...I get that.
My point to Jojo is that stating all white people are privileged, and then putting caveats upon an individual's accomplishments, based solely on race, is not good for race relations IMO. Stating the unique problems that minorities have seems a commendable endeavor.
I'm very far from a race relations expert. The only reason I got involved in this discussion is that I sincerely think that the notions of white privilege and there being no reverie racism, at all, are hurting our nation and the Democratic Party.
No matter the justification, these ideas aren't going to go over well the millions of hard-working white Americans who feel they have been left out of the system.
Thanks for the clarification, Hard Sun.
Jojo is right, there is an advantage to being white in America over being a person of color and it can be determined by any yardstick you choose to use. Of course, the conservatives will trot out Oprah or say that they were the son of a CoAl miners daughter, but that is the exception rather the rule and we all know that.
The extent of that advantage has been less stark in recent times, but patterns of behavior continuing over centuries do not disappear in a few years. If you were in a marathon tied to a post while every one else was free to run the race and get ahead and somewhere in the fourth circuit of the course the person tied was freed and told he was now allowed to run and compete, yet he lags far behind, how fair is that? There has been a lot of opportunity denied and wealth stolen over a long period time. It is only in relatively recent times that the problem has abated somewhat to make it possible to succeed if you are clever and prepared to negotiate the land mines that remain.
Did your name or socio-economic status present you with all the disadvantages that I speak of?
That is OK none of us are experts, I am sharing an experience and how many of us see it.
While I think that some sort of reparation is morally justified, it is like you say, it will divide the party because the idea is politically unpalatable. We know the topic can never see the light of day.
Basically, it seems like you're back to HardSun, you are privileged because of your skin color...not true.
"Did your name or socio-economic status present you with all the disadvantages that I speak of? "
Well, I think we are speaking of a wide variety of unnamed things. But, being as I was born with no advantage of my heritage, when you speak of tying someone to a post and then releasing them in the fourth circuit...I felt exactly like that when I saw the brand new Mustangs along frat row my freshman year in college..some of them driven by--gasp--minorities who had ancestors with their hands tied. Isn't that a yardstick? I couldn't get to work when my Citation was breaking down on the side of the road..lol. I could go on about the factors, out of my control, that negatively impacted my life.
I don't agree with this type of thinking at all. You see, we can all go back to moments in time where we feel our ancestors were cheated..just not maybe due to skin color, but that makes no difference upon the end result. One of my grandfather's businesses was stolen from him when he went off to WWII, taking away what I could see as rightfully mine.
To me, this is akin to the 40 year-old man blaming all his problems on something that happened when he was 10. No one cares!
And, this is why the issue gets no political traction. And this thinking is a BIG reason why we have Trump. You see, many poor white people, uneducated, or not, are still proud people. They aren't going to simply state..you're right, I'm privileged and anything I earn is not worth as much an anything a person of color earns. Many poor white people simply want equality and that's not what they are hearing from some people of color and some of our politicians..reparations..where's mine!?!? Some whites feel betrayed after voting for a minority president twice. Others are just racist through and through...as are some minorities.
I don't have to be an expert on race relations to understand this. There's a long hard road ahead when lower-income Americans could be coming together. In fact, I think they could come together if it wasn't for those with a little more means and education telling us we cannot without things like white guilt and reparations.
Well, Hardsun that is the problem I have with conservative reasoning, they take an individual circumstance and think that now it is to be universally applied everywhere and in all situations and that is incorrect.
It is disengenuous to say that relative to other racial and ethnic groups, whites have been disadvantaged in this country. That is not what any scholarly study or any statistician worth their salt will tell you.
Believe me, I pine for a future where bad luck is my only problem and otherwise I get an equal starting line with anyone else.
We talked about institutional racism, I thought that you understood when you acknowledged my point in this matter. In America, how has institutional racism ever apply to white people?
The thinking by others that never seem to get it is why I cling to the left as at least attempting to listen and why OUR folks continue to support Democrats, because We know all of "this stuff".
I am not dismissing your points, we just have different points of view based on differing perception of reality.
The issue as you mentioned is socio-economic, but what does the Right do but give special privilege to the wealthy, is that a reason to support Trump? How does any of that help lower income Americans come together?
You don't have to be guilty, just be aware.
I understand what you'e stating. When you put it as you just did, it's easier to state I agree with you, with some minor exceptions of course.
First, I'm not taking one individual circumstance and attempting to apply it everywhere in all situations..not at all. Also, I never once stated " relative to other racial and ethnic groups, whites have been disadvantaged in this country."
My meaning is that it's a generalization to simply state all white people are privileged and thus their accomplishments don't mean as much as when a colored person does the same thing. There are MILLIONS of American whites who, rightfully so, feel they are left out of the system.
Just because institutional racism has not applied to white people, it does't mean that any one of us was handed a better deck than any individual person of color...that's not generalizing, it's the truth.
I also never stated people have good reason to support Trump. What I'm stating about Trump is that some of the negative feelings that lower and middle class Americans have about the left is that they feel like he isn't going to bow down to the powers that be, which seem to want every white person to apologize for their skin color---they know Trump is not about that. Those aren't my words, but the words of someone I had a discussion with while getting my car's oil changed. Oh yeah, NEVER get your oil changed at Walmart. The filter fell out before we got home and the engine ran dry. Thankfully, it ran fine after a day of not starting, but we didn't even get our cash back for the oil change! I'll just go back to doing it myself.
Personally, I think Trump crosses the line on too many aspects, including race. He is unacceptable. However, I haven't heard a candidate on the left strike the right chord on race relations either. Not something both whites and minorities can accept. I'm not sure what some minorities can accept; only what some around where I live think. The lower-income minorities I speak to tell me when they think other minorities are racist. "Don't go in that gas station, they are racist."
I can be aware of minorities struggles without going along with the broad brush of "white privilege."
When we label an entire group of people as anything, we have a problem. That is different than acknowledging that minorities in America, as a group, face some different problems than whites in America.
I don't feel I'm above or below anyone based on my skin color or economic status. I feel that the most qualified candidate should get the job. This is why I voted for Obama twice. These are the things that should be expected from everyone, no more and no less.
were on the same wave length, thanks
I don't know where the idea comes from that comparable accomplishment by people of color were treated as more significant that those made by whites? On the contrary, I was raised in the opposite belief that WE always had to be twice as good to get half the credit compared with whites.
I get your meaning, but could I compare you with Oprah? Of course, there are always exceptions but what is prevailing circumstance for the vast majority as shown by academicians and statisticians?
It was interesting about your revealing the resentment passed on to you by a fellow customer at Wall Mart. A little knowledge of history and some understanding go a long way to refute such ideas. Let's work instead harder on eliminating the remaining vestiges of inequity and discrimination where it exists as that remains the source of our complaints regarding the current system. I am satisfied with that.
None of us are angels when it comes to avoiding practicing unsubstantiated biases.
But combined with the power and money which has generally resided with Anglos in this country, it is a double whammy and is much more devastating to those on the outside.
White privilege is a broad brush that cannot be applied to every single instance, but regardless, remains generally true.
I think you can say they We face the same problems whites face in the game of life and survival but have the additional burden of dealing with problems that are exclusive to US.
I agree, the best qualified candidate should get the job and when I can be confident that that is what actually happens, we would have come a long way toward addressing my "beef
We are not too far apart here. Ultimately, my main issue is simply with the terminology of "white privilege."
The power and the money has generally resided with the Anglos in this country. But, there are a hellofa lot of Anglos, and most of us aren't part of that club.
Minorities do have problems that are exclusive to them, to an extent. Then again, as individuals, with different familial histories, we all have problems that are exclusive to us.
Basically, when I read discussions of problems that minorities have, due to being a minority, I try to simply take that in and have no issue with it.
It's just that broad brush "white privilege" that I feel is unnecessary, counter-productive, and even offensive to the millions of whites who look upon those who have inheritances, etc. some of which are minorities, and understand we just don't have that privilege.
No, the most qualified person doesn't always get the job. And, these days, one's race can work for, or against them, no matter the race. My wife was once told 'we don't hire honkies." Is this part of a multi-generational conspiracy to keep whites down? No...but the result is palpable when you have no transportation and the closest place to work just doesn't hire honkies.
I have spent a lot of time in courts. Isn't it less about race than poverty?
Yes, race is a factor in poverty. But it's not the only factor.
I believe promisem to be correct about economics playing an even bigger role than race here. You are the one who cannot get over racist thoughts... who cannot even return a bit of kindness to a fellow human being--congratulating them on their successes--due entirely to the color of their skin (and maybe their gender).
If you were hiring for a job and the two candidates were me and a minority...who would have the advantage based on skin color?? That is racism when you have the authority to do so, no matter your color.
I've known several people of color who acknowledge they are racist. That goes over better.
To your last point, the most racist people I have known are not white. Just so anyone doesn't jump to conclusions, they aren't black either.
Victimhood, thatF is an interesting choice.
My point has been that white privilege is real and white people benefit, knowingly or unknowingly, from systemic racism. And because this is done to the benefit of white people, it becomes detrimental to people of color. Furthermore, this inequality makes it impossible for people of color to be racist because there is no reward. They can however, have prejudice.
I can go extensively on privileges white people receive, but I'll limit it to these:
1. Criminal justice system- 1 in 3 black men, 1 in 5 latino men, and 1 in 17 white men will be incarcerated. Yes, poverty does play a role.
2. Job discrimination- A September 2016 article about the two-year study in Administrative Science Quarterly called Whitened Resumes: Race and Self-Presentation in the Labor Market by Sonia K. Kang, assistant professor of organizational behavior and human resource management at the University of Toronto Mississauga; András Tilcsik, assistant professor of strategic management at the University of Toronto; and Sora Jun, a doctoral candidate at Stanford University.
Found, after sending out 1,600 resumes, 25% of black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10 % got calls when they left ethnic details intact. Among Asians, 21% got calls if they used whitened resumes, whereas only 11.5 % heard back if they sent resumes with racial references.
3. Media- While there has been an increase, people of color (POC) are still under represented. Only 13% of big screen leads are poc, 12% directors, 20% are tv leads, and the numbers continue.
Just for fun, without googling, name 10 white actresses, name 10 white actors. Now name 10 black actors and actresses. Name 10 Latin American actors and actresses. Name 10 Asian American actors and actresses. Time yourself. Take a minute for each.
4. Beauty standards- the whiter the better, which is detrimental to people of color. Particularly women of color. In the latino community we have "advanzando la raza" in the black community mixed children or lighter skin black people are seen as more beautiful.
I won't go in-depth on any of these because this post would be too long and you can do your own research.
"If you were hiring for a job and the two candidates were me and a minority...who would have the advantage based on skin color??"
I have a staff of 17, 13 of whom are white. All hired based off of merit.
You keep calling me racist on two accounts, as far as I can tell. The first, because I've said white privilege is real. I won't reiterate why it is. I'll address your concern instead. That I don't believe white people have gone through struggles.
Once again, despite having said it multiple times. No, that is incorrect. I know white people face struggles just like anyone else. There are however, benefits that white people receive that people of color don't. Calling out this privilege isn't racist. Just like calling out rich people for not paying their fair share in taxes isn't anti-wealth. I'm just pointing out a flaw in our system that lets business and owners enjoy wealth cuts that shouldn't be there. Amazon and Jeff Bezos are a prime example.
Secondly, I think you believe I somehow actually want to reverse racism and oppress white people. If so, rest assured. That's not what I want. Again I'm just calling out a system that works for the benefit of a few. Although, I question why you'd be worried that I'd want white people to be treated as people of color are?
Now let's circle back to this victimhood mentality. You've expressed your personal struggles while I've shared some of mine, and acknowledged some of the privileges I have. And yet, no one accused you of being stuck in a victimhood mentality. I've purposely steered away from personal anecdotes for this reason and focused on the collective. It's you that continued to focus on the personal by calling out to a "bit of kindness to a fellow human being."
To repeat your sentiment. If I had focused on every negative experience in my life I would have never reached my current position.
I'll leave you all with this.
Is racism real?
If you answered no, then I can understand why you won't acknowledge white privilege.
If you answered yes, which is obviously how I would answer. Then you are acknowledging that people of color are still being discriminated against and facing oppression. And if they are facing oppression, that means by default, another community is benefiting. Who do you think that is?
Are you assuming that only blacks, or only anyone not identifying as Caucasian, can be discriminated against? Because racism is not limited to Caucasians - it can be found within every race.
There, there, Dan. We all have some faults....
I'll leave you with this. If you can put caveats of "some whites" get this advantage or that advantage, then you cannot, in good faith go on to state all whites are privileged. Citing statistics does NOTHING to make me privileged and making that leap is making you mind up about me based upon my race...which would be racism in my mind.
I was told, straight up, by a judge, that my sentence was harsh because of my non-existent privilege. So, racism exists, mo matter the color. I have my own personal proof..and we ALL know this.
I've also witnessed people of color get a "reward" solely due to their color. You cite this same circumstance as white privilege. So, then there's certainly people of color privilege.
I call you racist because, when it comes to even just us two, you cannot find it withing yourself to look beyond race. It's rather entertaining but growing old. What is it that you want out of attempting to get all whites to state they are privileged? Whatever it is, you're not going to get it.
I'm going back to my world where looking beyond race is the goal and the standard to live up to.
Let me back peddle for a second because you all keep missing my point. And it's something that I've stated repeatedly.
It really all comes down to semantics. At some point, the actual meaning of “racism” got mixed up with other aspects of racism ― prejudice, bigotry, ignorance, and so on. It’s true: White people can experience prejudice from black people and other non-whites. Black people can have ignorant, backwards ideas about white people, as well as other non-white races. No one is trying to deny that. But racism is far more complex.
At its core, racism is a system in which a dominant race benefits off the oppression of others — whether they want to or not. We don’t live in a society where every racial group has equal power, status, and opportunity.
Assumptions and stereotypes about white people are examples of racial prejudice, not racism. Racial prejudice refers to a set of discriminatory or derogatory attitudes based on assumptions deriving from perceptions about race and/or skin color. Thus, racial prejudice can indeed be directed at white people (like white people can't dance) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship of power. When backed with power, prejudice results in acts of discrimination and oppression against groups or individuals.
To quote Marcuse, "we should not confuse the occasional mistreatment experienced by whites at the hands of people of color with the systematic and institutionalized mistreatment experienced by people of color at the hands of whites."
While expressions of racial prejudice directed at white people may hurt the white person/people individually or personally, and are never to be condoned, they do not have the power or authority to affect the white person's social/economic/political location and privileges.
Reverse racism is a myth because it tries to ignore the fundamental question of who holds more power/privilege between the individuals/groups involved; the myth of reverse racism assumes that racism occurs on a so-called level playing field.
I then repeat my question, do you believe racism is real?
If your answer is no than you believe we live in an equal society where white people and people of color are on the same level. There's no point in having this discussion.
Acknowledging we live in a racist society, is confronting the truth that people of color are oppressed. And if people of color are oppressed that means white people, by default, are benefiting from this. As oppression cannot exist without benefiting others.
"Citing statistics does NOTHING," and here we stand at the crux of this issue. Your misunderstanding that my position, like yours is based on opinion. It is not. I refer to numbers, data, and sources because it is supported evidence. Proven. To disregard this, to continue making your stance, is not only woefully ignorant it is dangerous. You are dismissive of analysis done by leading researcher's in their respective fields to continue to perpetuate your world view.
You're free to vote for whomever you wish. I will, however, never vote for a candidate who's mere presence within a county increases hate crimes by 226%.
I get what you're saying. You are stating whites cannot be victims of racism and ALL whites are privileged and benefiting from the oppression of others, which is NOT true. Then you, oddly, acknowledge that whites can be victims of racial prejudice...but this is not racism!!
"Reverse racism is a myth because it tries to ignore the fundamental question of who holds more power/privilege between the individuals/groups involved;"
I can name MANY situations in which an individual of color has more power than I do...so this is not racism because, statistically, the situation is generally the reverse. There's NO logic there.
You can play with definitions all day long. --I add to this your refusal to reciprocate my congratulations for your achievements, and I see a dangerous and hateful ideology.
Understanding statistics means understanding that not every one falls into those statistical categories. No one is disregarding numbers. I just understand what they mean.
My ideology is treat others how you would want to be treated no matter your skin color. It doesn't involve admitting I'm privileged due to my skin color and I'm hard-pressed to find what good that does anyone.
take care...I don't see much else to expand on here.
I suggest you reread what I wrote.
Please name the many instances.
You continue the misguided notion that I don’t treat everyone equally. I do. Again reread my previous statement.
But if you need a different approach, I’m queer. I point out privileges straight people have to this day. That doesn’t mean I hate straight people nor do I discriminate against them.
Understanding stats but refuting their finding is alarming.
Once again, you failed to answer an important question. One that’s the pinnacle of this conversation. Circumventing it, is more telling than you care to admit.
"Understanding stats but refuting their finding is alarming."
This is clearly not what I stated. You are no longer even having a good faith conversation. I'm not sure if you are capable of such with a stright white male.
I suggest you reread what I wrote
I'm going to need you to repeat that over and over until you realize your mistake.
How do you both acknowledge a truth and try to circumvent it at the same time?
"At its core, racism is a system in which a dominant race benefits off the oppression of others — whether they want to or not. We don’t live in a society where every racial group has equal power, status, and opportunity."
Hi Jojosanchez. I hope you don't mind my butting in. I have been following your discussion with hard sun, and the above excerpt from your comment leads me to believe that perhaps there are different perceptions of what racism really is.
I have always believed that racism and racist actions had to involve a component of superiority. As in one race being prejudiced or discriminated against because the other race felt superior.
My take from most of your comments is that is no longer needed as a component to define racism. It seems that your thinking is that racial inequality is racism - whether intentional or just a fact of circumstances.
As logically as you present your points, I just can't see a discussion of racism that doesn't include that feeling of superiority. Otherwise, the discussion is just about prejudice, discrimination, and inequality, (the natural inequality of life).
Have I misunderstood your comments? Do you think a feeling of superiority must be a factor in the determination of racism?
Yes, of course, if I never stated it outright it is because I assumed it was a given.
Contextually speaking, when discussing outright racist organizations like the alt-right groups, Neo-nazis, and any variation of this, there is a visible sense of superiority. Which they are more than happy to vocalize.
When looking at systemic racism, it becomes less visible, but just as pernicious. It is associating positive attributes with white people and negative aspects with people of color.
A simple example is hair. The vast majority of white people have hair that isn't as textured. Where as in people of color have coiler, more textured hair and often is thought of as dirtier or less professional. There are various examples of this. One that caused the most noise recently was Guiliana Rancic saying Zendaya looked like she smelled like weed because she wore dreadlocks to an award show. But nothing was ever said of Kylie Jenner when she did the same thing, in fact she was praised.
Hope this clears things up.
No, that didn't help much JoJo.
While I can agree that there are still remnants of institutionalized prejudice and discrimination, I cannot agree that, in our current times, it is intentional.
We are working on changing generational attitudes, and I think we are making good progress, but the fact that we aren't "there" yet does not mean that those generational and societal discriminations are still intentional--as they were just one generation ago.
If these existing discriminations are unintentional, (for the majority), then I believe they must be addressed as relics of discrimination that must be eradicated, but they are not examples of racism because--by my thinking--they are no longer intentional efforts, they are no longer driven by a sense of superiority.
Even your explanatory example of hair seems to bear witness to my point. You are pointing to the reality of difference and naming it racism just because a difference is acknowledged.
Can you acknowledge that dreds do look unkempt? The wearer may have the cleanest hair of any, yet the appearance looks otherwise when compared to a banged bob style.
I don't see racism if an observer makes a commonly perceived, (at least I think so), observation, yet you use such an illustration as an example of racism.
I think the point of my original comment stands; it appears you have a different definition of racism.
For me, if the action is intentional because of a feeling of superiority, then it is racism, but if there is no superiority-driven motive then it isn't. It is just discrimination that must be corrected, or, a prejudice that must be countered.
Can you acknowledge that dreds do look unkempt? The wearer may have the cleanest hair of any, yet the appearance looks otherwise when compared to a banged bob style.
Dissect this statement.
Create a framework surrounding this point alone. Once you’ve done that reread everything you’ve stated.
I would start with asking myself why I believe dreds look unkempt.
JoJo I think I understand why you think I need to dissect my statement, but it is only a guess guided by your closing question.
If your point is the difference in cultural perspectives, I can agree with that, and I understood that when I made the statement. Or was your point that I compared dreds to a "banged bob" style?
From my cultural perspective here is an illustration of why I think dreds look unkempt:
`Conversely, I also understand that the following is also an illustration of dreds:
But, I think the top Dreds image is the one that most likely comes to mind when dreds are mentioned in a statement such as the one I made. Do you disagree? Do you disagree that the top dreds image looks unkempt?
Even if you do disagree, we are talking about different cultural perceptions, not racist determinations. Would you really attribute my perception of the top dreds image to racism? Your comment that I responded to says yes you would.
Did I miss your intended point about my comment, what else would you have me discover about my initial statement?
This is difficult one to negotiate, our individual perceptions of beauty and ugliness is the last of our inherent biases. And we all have it.
The abhorrence one feels about "unkemp" dreadlocks is a cultural norm and preference and may not necessary reflect bias.
Moving into the 21st century, the goal should be to accept differences of others without adverse and unsubstantiated association rather than think that you are OK only when you look like me.
Hi Cred. You have added a context that was not in my comment. And it is a context I don't think is generally true.
I don't feel "abhorrence" when I see dreds, (actually, I think of ganja and Bob Marley), and I don't think a majority of folks do either. I also don't generally, (but there are some dred styles I would call ugly), think dreds are ugly. But I do think that in most instances they look unkempt. But all of that is just personal style and norm preferences. It has nothing to do with prejudice, discrimination, or racism.
And that was my point. An example of a reaction to a difference in style preferences and cultural norm differences was used as an illustration of racism.
Come on bud, look at that top dreds picture*. Will you really tell me that doesn't look unkempt and unclean? Even if you squirm about and mutter "Not really . . ." would you then say that I view it that way because I am a racist? Or that my view is an example of institutionalized racism?
*I am aware that is not the only dreds style, (I also included a contrary image), but I think that is closer to the most common perception of dreds than the lady in the second dreds image.
"But I do think that in most instances they look unkempt. But all of that is just personal style and norm preferences. It has nothing to do with prejudice, discrimination, or racism"
I hear you, GA, and understand your point. I never suggested that there was any racial implication on your part regarding dreadlocks.
And yes, being raised within this culture I cannot help but to absorb the preponderance of its values. So the neat haircut, coat and tie image I gravitate to, at least subconsciously
It is right there with "Blondes have more fun" or Only your hairdresser knows for sure". Then there is the "fashion statement" of these you men wearing there trousers in such a way, where their drawers in in clear view. I have a hard time trying to objective in the face of such things, but I work at it. But, I forget much was said about men in the sixties letting their hair grow long as part of my generation. My forebears saw it as unkempt and slovenly, but for us at the time, it was "cool".
I just I have to be conscious about resisting non-merit judging of people solely because of cultural inculcation or "brainwashing" that is part and parcel of living in this society for as long as I have.
Reminds me of a song, see if you remember "Signs" (1971)?
And there we are . . . we are in agreement Cred. It is all about personal choice and current cultural norms.
This whole "Dreds" thing started because, (in this thread), some folks reactions to them were deemed to be examples of institutionalized racism. I disagreed.
Again, create a framework surrounding this point alone. Once you’ve done that reread everything you’ve stated.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I get why millions of white Americans who have had to struggle their whole life feel left out of a system. Again, that's why I stated white privilege doesn't mean white people don't have problems. I recognize, most white people have had to work for what they have and continue to do so. I'm sure being told you've always had privilege when you've had to work had for everything you currently have is frustrating to hear because it doesn't feel like it.
That's what makes it so dangerous.
Most white people don't recognize they have these privileges. One of the more common ones is having a beauty standard. Look at every major campaign in the United States the last 20-30 years. Every person on the cover of magazines, leading men and ladies, models, fashion designers, ads, etc. have all used white people to sell their products. As a white person you don't question this, you don't question the model, or the actor, or whoever it is that's selling you a product. It's one you see in the mirror or its one you see at home. It is familiar.
For many people of color it then becomes an aspiration. To have blonde hair, blue/green eyes, to be tall to be thin, to look like the people in those magazines. And when you are bombarded with those images every day it has serious consequences. In the Latin American community we have this saying "advanzando la raza" which is pervasive and disgusting. It's the belief that brown skin and brown features are dirty and that in order to rectify it you need to marry someone with lighter features so that your kids have lighter features. It is buying bleaching products for our skin (a billion dollar industry) even though we know it can lead to a mirage of health issues just to have lighter skin; because lighter skin is seem as beautiful.
Even looking at women of color in the industry to day, you can see the effects of it. Look at Jennifer Lopez, Shakira, Beyonce, all famous women who started in this industry with darker features, darker hair, wearing a variety of clothes and slowly moving to what is called the "goldening aesthetic." Where their hair becomes lighter, with blonde highlights, and they stick with nude, gold, or white colored clothing.
Ask any child of color, today, if they could change their skin would they?
Their answers are devastating. And heartbreaking. Ask any Latin American child what "advanzando la raza is" and they will tell you its becoming whiter.
Now go to white children, and ask them the same question.
This is white privilege.
"which seem to want every white person to apologize for their skin color," that's just it. People of color don't want an apology, we don't blame white people living today for what their ancestors did. We want recognition.
We want acknowledgement.
Acknowledgement that the history of this nation is one of oppression that continues to this day. I don't care that you're white. I care that millions of white people, don't know they have white privilege or argue that they don't, because refuting this becomes complicit in continuing systemic racism.
Trump has become the embodiment of racism for people of color. One thing he has done brilliantly, is shift the blame from corporate interest to people of color, and told white people this is why you're not succeeding. A Muslim ban and building a wall isn't going to create more jobs. He's done one and is constructing the other and yet we are still nearing a recession.
Undocumented immigrants aren't the reason people can't afford their rent. It's corporations and billion/millionares not paying their fair share. Amazon is not going to pay any taxes at all this year. At all. Thanks to loopholes Trump has signed into law. Jeff Bezos, worth 133 billion dollars, just cut health benefits for Whole Food employees.
As far as the "lower income minorities" being racist or pointing them out. I've already spoken about this at length.
"I don't feel I'm above or below anyone based on my skin color or economic status." I agree, I'm the same way. And this is what we should all strive for. It's something that can be done, but an open wound cannot heal if it isn't first treated properly.
The first step is admitting we have a problem.
Yet so many white people want tans and listen to R&B/hip hop/rap music and mimic other parts of minority culture. The public school here is majority white but my daughter goes to prom and cannot hear one piece of music that's not from a black artist. That should be okay...right?? But we could just say Brown people privilege? lol
The rural schools just outside of here play almost all music from country artists...and they are sometimes called racist because of this. You see, these are the dynamics at play here when many of us simply want to stop this nonsense of making everything about race.
Sorry, I just don't find your argument compelling at all! I really think you are grasping big time here.
If I treat others how I would treat them I'm not complicit in anything. You're not going to get a whole race of people, many of which or impoverished, to admit they are privileged. And, there's no reason to.
You state "I'm sure being told you've always had privilege when you've had to work had for everything you currently have is frustrating to hear because it doesn't feel like it."
That says it all..it doesn't feel like it because I haven't had any significant benefit from it, yet you continue to find reasons to call me privileged.
I'm not a Trump fan. What I'm stating is that the white priveledge argument is fueling Trump fans, and it's hard to see how it wouldn't.
You can speak about minorities not being able to be racist, and I can reply with what I've heard from other minorities. This is how conversations work.
I give you recognition. Once again, I wish you all the best and congratulate you for any success you've had without caveat...can you do the same for me?
I strongly disagree with the idea that these practices have similar geneses. Tanned skin can be viewed in two contexts. Firstly, there is deliberate recreational skin tanning which is practiced particularly from the twentieth century onwards. And secondly there is tanned skin that arises from one’s employment (agricultural laborers) or lifestyle circumstances and environment (walking as a main means of commode).
When persons speak of tanning as a similar occurrence to skin bleaching, they are most often referring to tanning of a recreational nature, not the kind of tanning that also contributes to discrimination. This essentially is a novelty experience with no negative social and psychological backlashes attached to the practice. It is something that is also temporary and does not convey the idea of rejection of one’s whiteness. They can always ‘reclaim’ their ‘whiter’ hues after a short period out of the sun. People do not attach negative stereotypes to tanning. It does not inspire hatred or hate crimes or instigate violence. Tanned whites are not paid lesser because of their temporary skin colour change. Tanning is not associated with the dark skinned complexion of African people. Further, persons who cannot easily tan - those who become the ‘red lobsters’ - tan for attention. They know their skin will burn easily and not achieve a browning effect but still do it perhaps for the conversation piece that ‘I am so fair I cannot tan.’
Are you arguing that because rap/hip-hop/R&B are popular and have cemented their place in the music industry, that somehow racism has been invalidated? That's the same as arguing Barack Obama solved systemic racism with his presidency. No, it's more complex than that.
When you associate rap and hip-hop as black music, it erases the fact that black people are in every musical genre and you are actively participating in anti-black sentiment (which is an entirely different conversation, but intersectionality is a thing) .
Black artists invented rock, which still has influence on popular culture today, but it isn't as discussed because it what white people who made it popular after gentrifying the genre.
"Dynamics at play here."
I’ve heard time and time again that hip-hop and rap is so misogynistic and violent or that they glorify drugs and abuse. Honestly, when we live in a sexist and patriarchal world, that is going to be seen everywhere and is not mutually exclusive to Hip-hop. It can also be found in country music.
Look at Luke Bryan’s video for That’s My Kind Of Night. The chorus starts off with, “All them other boys wanna wind you up and take you downtown,” basically implying that all these guys want to get with this girl. His next line is “But you look like the kind that likes to take it way out,” and I take that as Bryan implying that she “looks” like the type of girl to give it up to whoever. Way to slut-shame women country music. And this isn’t even talking about the objectification of women in the video itself.
One of the first songs I thought of when thinking about masculinity and violence in music was Immaculate Misconception by Motionless in white. Just to quote some of the song lyrics
“ Put your teeth to the curb, cuz right now I’m gonna stomp your fucking face in I hope you drown in all the cum you fucking swallow”
None of this is to say not to criticize hip-hop or rap, but to criticize all music because sexism and violence isn’t exclusive. And yet this is rarely done because country music is largely by white artist (white privilege).
I've read so many articles about the negative influence of rap and I cannot recall reading one about country music.
"That says it all..it doesn't feel like it because I haven't had any significant benefit from it, yet you continue to find reasons to call me privileged."
Because there are. And instead of listening, you double down on your beliefs based on opinion despite my repeated attempts at providing evidence.
"You can speak about minorities not being able to be racist, and I can reply with what I've heard from other minorities. This is how conversations work." Conversation and extensive research (with visible numbers) are two different things.
Yes, of course congratulations on all you've accomplished. Why you think I wouldn't be able to do it freely is confounding.
But I ask my original question, do you believe racism is real?
Racism is real and it exists within all races and cultures. I'm glad, after the third time asking, I was able to get you to congratulate me without caveat. And you really didn't as you again state I'm privileged. From two weeks ago: "We all have our struggles. Minimizing the struggles of an entire race..not helpful. I commend you for your accomplishments with no caveats....could you do the same for me?"--You could not.
What makes you think your struggles with race make your struggles more real than the individual struggles of any given white person?-- with being left out, born of lower-economic class, having both parents pass away, etc. etc.
They aren't necessarily, and instead of listening you double down..see how that works?
EVERYONE wants their struggles to be acknowledged but we don't expect others to tell us how privileged they are. Being a different race and gender makes our struggles different, but it doesn't automatically make your struggles somehow more real or worse.
Google is your friend: https://ourpastimes/the-effects-of-country-music-on-adolescents-12531439.html
The Effects of Country Music on Adolescents
You offered no real rebuttal to the tan and minority culture references...only "but it's different cause you're white." I was simply throwing YOUR references to what you call systemic racism back at you..but I get it, it's different cause I'm white.
I acknowledge racism and the struggles it presents. I simply won't say this makes me privileged or makes my struggles less than yours.
I'm not going to break down and state I'm privileged for whatever reason and neither are the majority of whites. And so it is.
Again, I’ve done this time and again. If you’ve failed to understand that is not my issue but yours.
I’ve legitimized your struggles as well as anyone else’s. My point has always been that while we all face struggles, there are issues people of color face that are caused by systemic racism that white people don't have to deal with at all.
I’ve given various examples of this as well as analogies.
I have listened and I’ve addressed these concerns. And made a point of addressing each one. Can you say the same?
I had no issues citing my resources it’s you that negated them.
But I did, I would reread my comment, what I haven’t done is connect the dots for you. Something I still won’t do.
“The burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander.”
You can do your own intellectual work.
Acknowledging racism but not it’s symptoms is hypocritical.
And as long as that continues systemic racism will as well.
Welp. I agreed with your point from the very beginning then. From the beginning, my issue was with the terminology of white privilege. I find the rest of your comments disingenuous and borderline insulting. You've learned nothing from my wisdom, lol.
To the original poster who says "Trump is 100% racist," this statement is totally devoid of logic and makes you sound like you are just regurgitating liberal talking points. If you have really thought about this and Trump really is 100% racist, then perhaps you can answer the following questions:
If Trump is 100% racist, then...
Who is 90% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 80% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 70% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 60% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 50% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 40% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 30% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 20% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 10% racist? Include your list here:
Who is 0% racist? Include your list here:
As I point out here, "racism" is just an empty liberal talking point:
https://hubpages.com/politics/Why-Donal … lection-In
Tim, totally agree. Be careful, perhaps you are not aware. hubpages prohibit self promotion. Make sure you don’t include links to your hubs or you will loose your posting priviledges.
I agree that saying Trump is 100% racist is emotional rather than logical.
But the underlying point is valid. It's not an "empty liberal talking point" if Trump repeatedly talks and acts like a racist.
As an afterthought I’ll leave you a link to the white woman who coined the term white privilege.
https://psychology.umbc.edu/files/2016/ … h-1989.pdf
It isn't about truth.
It's about getting what one wants - power, affluence, being the best, domination - at any cost.
That's why Republicans tend to be Alpha Males.
The interesting part about the alpha male story is that the guy who posited it based his research on the leaders of a wolf pack kept in captivity.
A few years later he retracted as leadership amongst wolves in the wild is completely different.
In reality, the 'alpha male' is anything but a leader - he is a bully! And he does not display real leadership.
So forget about being shocked that Trump doesn't tell the truth. His party has gerrymandered, tried to get various groups of people not to vote, done everything in its power to win.
It's about winning - not about truth or good governance.
Trump is not a racist. The GOP is not a racist party. America is not a racist nation.
That is the truth.
To think otherwise is self loathing...
I am not saying there is no racist, just we are a better country for ridding our nation of systemic and institutional racism.
That is the only explanation why we are where we are today.
We have elected a black president.
We have a nation with a wide diversity of races and religions...
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