Why is Everyone So Worked Up Over the Coronavirus?

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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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IslandBitesposted 4 years ago
Another idiot. UGH

Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska) dismissed the dangers of the coronavirus outbreak while speaking in his home state last week, claiming that the U.S. was at war "mostly because of the presentations by the mass media.”

Young made the Friday comments during an appearance at Mat-Su Senior Services, a Palmer, Alaska, nonprofit that provides housing and services for the elderly, according to The Anchorage Daily News.

"They call it the coronavirus. I call it the beer virus. How do you like that?” Young said, in an apparent reference to Corona beer. “It attacks us senior citizens. I’m one of you. I still say we have to as a nation and state go forth with everyday activities.”

The 86-year-old congressman said that the deadliness of the virus was "blown out of proportion," claiming "it’s not nearly as deadly as the other viruses we have."
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Location Location location. Theguy may seem an idiot but with 1.2 people per square mile of land mass in Alaska...an octogenarian to boot...it isn't difficult to understand his inability to wrap his head around the problem.
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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago
I'm sitting back watching the chaos. May start offering wilderness survival courses. I wonder if people from urban America would be interested.

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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Mike, this is probably pretty accurate. However, if you just look at how much credit card debt most people carry, you can tell they're not ready for much. And most financial advisers recommend you have 6 months of salary in savings. How many people have that?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know. I can tell you in survival situations, there will be those who don't survive. I don't see how other people's credit card debt or lack of savings is my problem.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's not. But if you read most experts, they recommend having cash on hand; etc. It's not possible for everyone. Americans don't save their money.
  
  The experts though - just trying to create more hoaxes for us to follow. Who knows who we should listen to anymore.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think you should need an expert to tell you that you've got to prepare for difficult times. I think that is just common sense. At what point should people be made to be responsible for themselves? If someone doesn't have enough money saved or too much credit card debt, shouldn't they be made to be responsible for it? So, I would say it is possible for people who realize it's necessary. I've seen people who lived in expensive houses with cars and boats who are live pay check to pay check. I've seen people who live in small houses in neighborhoods that dicey who have saved and are millionaires. One wealthy guy in this situation had worked as a janitor all his life. So, I would conclude we need to think beyond experts and think for ourselves. We know our individual situations better than anyone.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't disagree. What I'm saying is that people generally don't follow this smart advice. Part of the reason for that is that we live in a world that promotes spending. Buy, buy, buy. Put it on a credit card. Etc. So there's logic and then there's social conditioning. The latter is often stronger.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you have a very valid point with social conditioning. I agree that people don't follow smart advice especially when it comes to finances. Our consumer society has always promoted spending. Is it safe to say many people don't follow smart advice when it comes to many things in life?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "Is it safe to say many people don't follow smart advice when it comes to many things in life?
  
  No, but it's safe to say "some" people though, Mike.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Type 4 - Could be any age. Understands the.importance of listening to real leaders who follow the advice of health, pandemic and emergency preparedness professionals. Takes prudent measures to protect themselves and their families while also looking out for their friends and neighbors. Ignores people who fall for false information and think they know everything. These are the most dangerous.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
Is there a tax I can pay to stop Covid-19, or does that logic only apply to global warming ?
Asking for a friend.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I chuckled at that.
  
  It's unfortunate that had Trump taken this more seriously sooner and listened to the medical experts, your financial obligation would have been so much less than it will be.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What do you think he should have done to reduce the dollar cost we're going to face? What did the "medical experts" say that would have done that, and that Trump ignored?
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  While I don't think anything I say in response to that is going to convince you of anything, here you go:
  
  1. Upon the transition of power, the Trump team was given extensive briefing on the threat of a pandemic. Plus, the Pandemic Office was in place. They ignored the briefing and closed the office.
  2. Despite Trump currently trying to gaslight everyone over how seriously he took the virus, he consistently downplayed the seriousness right up until last week by saying it would be over soon, everything was under control, and basically not to worry. Had he moved quickly upon the advice of medical experts in a way similar to South Korea, we would have slowed the spread and dramatically reduced costs. Instead, he was nonchalant about it and there are a multitude of his statements to back that up. He relied on his "natural ability" for far too long.
  
  Still, and in this forum, people are advocating for us to just let things play out naturally and let people go about their daily lives as normal. Yes, a ton of people are going to get this thing, but we can either try to flatten the curve and help our healthcare system deal or let it be overwhelmed.
  
  And just to throw you a bone, Wilderness, it hasn't been lost on me that the very people who are most likely to be Democrats and liberals, young college students, are the very ones causing the most problems and people like you, should they get sick (as my own mother put it), will be triaged into a hallway to die while those partying college kids are treated.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It is part of his narcissism. Everything is bad and he needs to fix it. He doesn't respect anything that is in place. That is what he calls the "deep state." There are reasons things are done. He should at least understand why things are the way they are and get expert opinions. It should not be a personal matter. "I don't like you and, therefore, you know nothing and can do nothing!"
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  1. And how would the pandemic office have saved us money?
  
  If just as many people get sick, just over a longer time, how does that save money? There is also the wee matter of showing that we could have slowed it much beyond what we've already done, but that's another topic. I have seen exactly zero information that the total number of cases will decrease if we flatten, but widen, the curve. I mean, my state has a total of 12 cases as of this morning - putting some of those off until next month or the month after that won't save a dime.
  
  For that matter, one could perhaps make a case that it would be cheaper, if completely unethical, to intentionally overwhelm the care system. In that manner many will never see any care before they die, saving money (isn't that how insurance companies sometimes operate - raise objections to care until the patient dies?).
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Here's another interesting quote from the epidemiologist who predicted this outbreak:
  
  People say Contagion is prescient. We just saw the science. The whole epidemiological community has been warning everybody for the past 10 or 15 years that it wasn't a question of whether we were going to have a pandemic like this. It was simply when. It's really hard to get people to listen. I mean, Trump pushed out the admiral on the National Security Council, who was the only person at that level who's responsible for pandemic defense. With him went his entire downline of employees and staff and relationships. And then Trump removed the [early warning] funding for countries around the world.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "And then Trump removed the [early warning] funding for countries around the world."
  
  What funding was that?
  
  GA
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The man's name is Larry Brilliant and the interview was in Wired. It's just a quote.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Got it. I went back to look and can see that it was a quote. Still, I wonder if his intention is to claim that '49 to 10 pandemic offices' thing?
  
  GA
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  erorantesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I remember listening to his speech on the subject. He said. He was afraid to run out of money for the USA people. We got to admit. We all USA people work so hard for the money to use for the well being of the USA. He also said that if there was some money left over. He will help other countries like China. China worked hard, so we can buy less and expensive items. China found the cure for the virus thanks to the Cuban scientists who discover the medicine for the Chinese people. God bless those good souls. God bless our President.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  So he saved some money. You still haven't said where he would have saved more by following advice.
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No one thinks Chinese Americans are to blame for the Corona virus.
  
  If you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand he's referring to a country and not an ethnicity, I can't help you.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  If you do not have the intellectual capacity to do a simple search about harassment of Asian Americans because of him using such a slur, then you cannot be helped to understand racism. Get a few minority friends, it will help you be a better human.
  
  His staff wrote up a speech and the man literally changes Corona to Chinese. Now, granted, perhaps it's just that he cannot pronounce words with three syllables. We all know him to be quite functionally illiterate. But deferring to racist dog whistles that cause harassment of Americans shouldn't be the fall back.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  DOH!
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize Chinese is not a race? Was it racist in 1918 to refer to the flu pandemic then as the "Spanish Flu?" I wonder if there are documented evidence of Spanish Americans being harassed because of it. In the scheme of things, this is pretty small and petty.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Small and petty to you because you are not Asian American. But just another example of Trump recklessly disregarding WHO guidelines when dealing with a pandemic.
  
  'World Health Organization guidelines for naming infectious diseases, issued in 2015, discourage names that refer to specific places, people and professions, aiming to avoid negative repercussions from stigmatizing a geographic area or a population group.'
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Must...be...politically...correct!
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No one screamed any of this over MEERS. That name indicated the origin. The middle east.
  
  Damn, Chinese government propaganda machines work well with the left.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps you old timers should evolve with the times. The guidelines, as I noted, were implemented in 2015.
  
  https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/han … sequence=1
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Here we have a pandemic shutting down the world economy...and the left is worried about calling it something politically incorrect. People on the left need to grow up.
  
  Worried about what happens to Asian Americans but sigh at all the people who are beat up, refused service at bars and banned from restaurants because they wear a MAGA hat. What a bunch of hypocrites. Of course, they don't discriminate when people wear MAGA hats, they will attack them if they are black, white, Hispanic, disabled, elderly...they attack everyone who doesn't see things their way.
  
  Try focusing on the pandemic like adults and quit worrying about petty and trivial things like the name. Kung Flu.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That's fine, but history tells us that people of Asian descent will be attacked in the street as a result. It's petty and unnecessary. You can make the same argument without putting innocent people at risk and those who don't see that or understand it are likely racist.
  
  I have no problem with somebody making an argument that China is not our friend and it's curious that so many of these things come out of China. Maybe they shouldn't eat bats over there.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And if the Chinese government is not our friend, fine. What about Chinese people that have nothing to do with the government and Chinese American citizens. If he wants to talk about the Chinese government, why doesn't he just do that.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I made that point down below. Make the distinction, otherwise it's racism and racism always rears its had in times like these because some people always need somebody to blame.
  
  Notice that the concept of war is already being invoked. Well, in WW2, Japan was to blame, but Japanese Americans bore the brunt of racism in this country and were badly mistreated. The same is going to happen here if our leaders don't draw distinctions and be careful.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I have a friend that was interred in Arkansas. I'm sorry I missed your comment. It is so inhumane to know that you are offending others and continue to do it deliberately.
  
  I noticed Mike Pompeo called it the Chinese Flu in this morning's briefing. Mike Pence then spoke of the Coronavirus. He probably will have a nice little book deal to deal about his time in the WH.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Sadly, it should be obvious that he is speaking of a geographic location only.
  
  I'm surprised this needs to be pointed out to many of you.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No, it's not obvious. If Trump wanted to be obvious, HE VERY EASILY COULD BE. He's not. What is the meaning of the word "Chinese"? If you were both smart and concerned about people, you would be very careful in the words you chose. And if you wanted to blame China, you would just say that.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. Only an idiot would equate that to people and only someone with an agenda would label it racist.
  
  Spanish flu. Because the first documented cases were in Spain.
  
  Meers. Middle eastern respiratory syndrome. Named for the suspected origin.
  
  Everyone called this wuhan virus, at first. Until some traction was seen in screaming racism.
  
  You are a pawn of propaganda. Think for yourself.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And you are either supportive or ignorant of the effects that this has. Do a simple search to see what has happened to some Asian Americans since the virus began. There is a reason the WHO came up with guidelines, and discrimination is one of them as seen in the reach of media in these times. Your 100-year example and one from three-years (it's MERS by the way, just so you can sound knowledgeable about it) prior to the WHO guidelines don't excuse what many see as racism.
  
  Who does using the phrase Chinese Virus help exactly? Please, supply one good reason for doing so.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  To your point, the medical name being used by the entire planet except for Trump is coronavirus, not Chinese virus.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my goodness. You found a typo and used it to your advantage. How cool is that? The good news is I make a lot of them so you can do it again moving forward. Yay!!!
  
  Buy into the bull. You appear to enjoy it.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What is the definition of "Chinese"?
  
  China is not our friend. They are our enemy. I applaud Trump for what he's done in his approach to China. Everyone needs to understand better the threat China poses to us.
  
  I'll refer you to WWII. Japanese Americans were targeted because of what Japan did. Using the word "Chinese" will definitively mean that people of Asian descent will be attacked in the street.
  
  If I was a leader, I would use my words carefully to avoid such things, assuming I cared about them.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Most people I know grumble about Chinese products and low quality. Are they talking about the quality of the Chinese people?
  
  It seems more like YOU didn't understand him, perhaps because you don't want too. It's more important to find something about Trump to gripe about.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Do any of those products kill? Are they a danger? That was a pathetic equivalency.
  
  It seems you don't understand tying a population of people to something that Americans find to be life threatening is dangerous. History is full of such lessons, but then again, no one expects Trump to know a thing about history or a Trump apologist like you to expect him to.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. A competent leader would avoid using divisive language like that during a crisis. It's trivial and easily avoided. A little maturity is in order, eh?
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting.
  
  I wonder when people got so thin-skinned that things like this worried them.
  
  Fundamentally one can change language as much as one likes to accommodate the hurt feelings of others. However, it is not the words that are hurting people. It is the intent behind the words.
  
  I watched this unfold in South Africa.
  
  As fast as one word was banned from speech because it was hurtful or disparaging or insulting, another one would find its place.
  
  The real issue is that some people have a strong need to make others wrong and inferior because it puts them in a place of superiority and power, and that's where they want to be.
  
  Words that insult are just as symptom of a deeper disease - the desire by some to be superior to others.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes kids on the playground and people on the internet can and will be mean sometimes. Blaming it on the president is stupid. Regulating speech is even worse, it's called fascism.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, there's a pretty interesting dynamic going on here and I happen to appreciate both sides on this one. First, the need to blame somebody for this and attach it to a particular country is an effort to deflect the responsibility for our own missteps on somebody else. That said, the America First agenda, which goes back a long way in our history, is caked with racism. So invoking such a thing invokes racism and is intentional.
  
  The other side of this is the fact that China is not our friend and who cares? We definitely need to get away from the sentiment that China is our friend and a fair trading and/or political partner. Making them look bad is in our national best interest. This is definitely a point where the Left needs to get its head out of the sand.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Once again, you are the voice of reason.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Are you being serious, Mike? Either way is fine. Or were you responding to the post above mine?
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  erorantesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Some women from Massachusetts when to China after some conference about bio product. She was sentenced to seven years in Prison for transferring the virus to people in China. Some of those contagious people came from China, and they brought the virus to the USA from China. It is sad what happened to al of us.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  As the world burns... some people will take their irrational hatred for the man to their graves. TDS...
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Or some will proudly exude their protection of their Asian American friends, while others will continue to display their sinophobia daily.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Irrational, Ken?
  
  Two days ago, Trump lied about the availability of surgical supplies and masks. Today, he lied about an anti-malarial drug being approved for use.
  
  Any thoughts as to how the misinformation the President spews impacts people?
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
More subversion from the Chinese government...

"Beijing has spent much of the outbreak pushing districts to carry on business as usual, with some local governments subsidizing electricity costs and even installing mandatory productivity quotas. Zhejiang, a province east of the epicenter city of Wuhan, claimed as of Feb. 24 it had restored 98.6 percent of its pre-coronavirus work capacity.

But civil servants tell Caixan that businesses are actually faking these numbers. Beijing had started checking Zhejiang businesses' electricity consumption levels, so district officials ordered the companies to start leaving their lights and machinery on all day to drive the numbers up, one civil servant said. Businesses have reportedly falsified staff attendance logs as well — they "would rather waste a small amount of money on power than irritate local officials," Caixan writes.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Here is the full link to your story:
  https://theweek.com/speedreads/900488/c … ents-claim
  
  And businesses are lying to their government, so not sure why it's the government's fault as you claim.
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TessSchlesingerposted 4 years ago
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 14136.html

QUOTE: Dr Roberto Cosentini, who also works at the hospital said comparisons to influenza were erroneous. “It’s a very severe pneumonia, and so it’s a massive strain for every health system, because we see every day 50 to 60 patients who come to our emergency department with pneumonia, and most of them are so severe they need very high volumes of oxygen,” he said.

QUOTE: Italy, with 60 million citizens, recorded 3,405 deaths overnight, exceeding the 3,248 in China – a country with a population more than 20 times larger.

QUOTE: One reason Italy’s death toll has been so high in comparison to other countries is it has the world’s second-oldest population, and the vast majority of those who have died, 87 per cent, were over 70 years old.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 14856.html

QUOTE: Authorities confirmed more than 9,000 people were caught violating laws intended to slow the virus during the nation-wide lockdown on Thursday alone, while more than 50,000 have been charged with breaking enforced social isolation rules since their introduction.

QUOTE: For several days Italian authorities have said at briefings that the virus outbreak that emerged in northern Italy four weeks ago could reach its peak in a matter of days and the number of new infections might start going down.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal … 14311.html

QUOTE:The incident last for 24 hours but was stood down after 24 hours. It comes as the NHS rushes to find an extra 30,000 bed spaces to establish makeshift intensive care units ahead of a surge in coronavirus cases expected in the coming weeks.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … ial-growth

QUOTE: I'm an ER doctor. Please take coronavirus seriously. Most people don’t understand exponential growth. If they did, they’d be far more frightened. I can’t imagine what it’s been like for the physicians and scientists who have been warning of a pandemic like this one for decades.

QUOTE: But naysayers and doubters are still, incredibly, refusing to listen to the nearly unanimous voice of the nation’s health and medical authorities, who are pleading for everything to be canceled or closed that can be, and urging aggressive social distancing to limit the virus’s spread.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "don't understand exponential growth"
  
  Never was there a bigger understatement.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The World Health Organization (WHO) has put the number of deaths from confirmed 2009 H1N1 flu at a minimum of 18,449, but that number is regarded as well below the true total, mainly because many people who die of flu-related causes are not tested for the disease.
  
  That is a year+ long pandemic. Coronavirus pandemic is not even 4 months in. Confirmed coronavirus deaths are 11,376 and counting.
  
  US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has estimated the global death toll from the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic at more than 284,000, about 15 times the number of laboratory-confirmed cases.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  ++++
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Here are the number of deaths from the CDC. They are a little higher than 18,000
  
  "A study published today in The Lancet Infectious Diseases Online Firstexternal icon provides the first global estimates of how many people died as a result of the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic. The study, co-authored by 9 members of the CDC Influenza Division, used an improved modeling approach which resulted in an estimated range of deaths from between 151,700 and 575,400 people who perished worldwide from 2009 H1N1 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated. "
  
  https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/pand … imates.htm
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You just made me laugh.
  
  Yes.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Too obtuse. You can do better.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
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Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago
I'll always think of it as the "Trump Virus" as it was what eventually brought him down. He simply doesn't realize it yet,
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, clearly Trump realized at some point that old guys represent a large number of his constituents and they are particularly at risk to this virus. I mean, if a huge swath of his supporters die, there's no way he gets re-elected, so he had to start taking this seriously.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And now someone in VP Pence's office has the virus. It was just announced on CNN a few minutes ago. Here we go....
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I'm certain if somebody in Trump's administration dies, this will suddenly become a serious problem. Or somebody on Fox News.
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, Do you think the measures that the government has taken indicate they are not taking this virus seriously? Have you looked around lately, are the kids in school in your community? Are many businesses closed? Have you stopped anyone from Europe, China, and who knows who else from coming into the country? Has Trump called a national emergency? Has Congress tossed out two bills, and working on a third to aid with the financial problems this mess is causing? I would say our government is taking this seriously and doing everything they can to help us all get through this.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying Trump's misinformation is helping things, Shar? Do you have a timeline for getting back into the USA? Seriously, are you worried, Shar? I don't want to be worried about you or any other HP writers during this crisis.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt there will be elections in 2020... if there are, they will be mail in votes, or online voting.
  
  You just haven't realized yet how much things are going to change, this will not blow over in a couple months.
  
  If Scott is indeed correct (just for the sake of argument lets go with his 11% fatality rate) the days of you being free to go anywhere are almost over with.
  
  The lockdown will last years.
  
  I have to admit, I am beginning to believe this is the case whether its 11% or not. The fact that they are offering $50 an hour to armed guards, for contracts related to government sites, and Security Supervisors for Health Care related positions just jumped to six figures, tells me something is coming down the pipeline.
  
  That and if France can lock down the whole nation, deploy 100,000 police, and its Armed forces... it can happen here.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that this will change things forever. I don't think anyone can predict the extent of that though, or that the lockdown will last "years." Well, I guess you can predict it, but that doesn't make it true.
  
  Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Not in my opinion. Is it good to focus on such possibilities? No. What are us little guys going to do about it if it is true?
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt that. But it sure will last months, at least until a vaccine is developed.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I think the "forever" impacts will be, or at least should be, things like how we handle ourselves in groups of people, how well prepared we are for these things, etc. I think tech and the online world will be even more important than it is now.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well, he said the lockdown. But I agree with you. Or lets hope so.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  According to projections from MIT and other astute sources, in terms of how this will work its way around the world, again and again... like the Flu did in 1917-1921, they (officials and world leaders) are probably coming to the same conclusion I did.
  
  If they don't maintain this self-isolation & non-gathering & non-travelling new world that we are entering into, the cases of those who get sick at the same time will spike up beyond the ability of Health Care and related services to cope.
  
  If everyone gets sick within a small timeframe, there will be a complete break down of social & civil services and protections.
  
  This of course, if Scott's extreme viewpoint is correct, and it has a 11% fatality rate... that will be a lot of nurses, doctors, police, etc. getting exposed, their fatality rate will be much higher, as the body does not maintain antibodies for this virus (or so I saw in a report) so they will be subject to getting it repeatedly.
  
  Repeated exposure, higher risk of fatality, for those we can least afford to have sick... there is no way if this has a higher than 10% fatality rate and we have no vaccine that life is going back to normal anytime soon... we haven't even begun to see the restrictions reach their peak.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I have no viewpoint, extreme or otherwise. The 11% death rate comes from public statistics about closed cases.
  
  If someone has better information from credible sources, I'll gladly refer to it.
  
  https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar … 7b48e9ecf6
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  SARS killed about 9 percent of those it infected - nearly 800 people worldwide and more than 300 in China alone. MERS, which did not spread as widely, was more deadly, killing one-third of those infected.
  
  While the new coronavirus is more widespread than SARS in terms of case numbers, the mortality rate remains considerably lower at approximately 3.4 percent, according to the WHO.
  
  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/ … 09687.html
  
  Scientists around the globe are racing to develop a vaccine but have warned it is not likely one will be available for mass distribution before 2021.
  
  If that is the best case scenario, for a vaccine, then this isolate no-travel curfew world is about to become the norm, not for weeks, or months, but years... and we are only entering into how restrictive things are about to become.
  
  Best case scenario... worst case, it becomes more fatal for those who get it, like MERS … in which case civilization as we have always known it will come to an end.
  
  So, we really have gone past the point of playing blame games or picking a Party or political ideal or bashing Trump... elections are likely over for the next couple of years.
  
  Whether you like or not, whether you think the idea of Martial Law is possible or not... just look to France, its coming.
  
  And any one who thinks this post, or any of recent ones I've posted, is an effort to defend Trump... your little world of having to put people into categories of 'Republican or Democrat' or Trumpist, or whatever political ideals you cling to, well, good luck with that. I doubt very many people with have the time or patience for it in the days ahead.
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Your article uses the same data from Hopkins that I am using. The 11% number is deaths divided by total closed cases (dead and recovered).
  
  The WHO mortality rate refers to total deaths divided by both active and closed cases. They are two different ratios.
  
  Regarding your last paragraph, I assume you will show the same level of restraint that you expect of other people, i.e., not calling them ignorant.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  If Obama were President and Democrats talked of suspending elections, there would be riots with gun-toting Republicans marching on Washington.
  
  I think it's a little too early to try to predict the future, but if Coronavirus is still a serious problem come fall, then perhaps postponing elections will be necessary.
  
  Technologically though, we should be able to find ways to allow people to vote. Mail voting works in most states who do it, so if it was possible, the federal government could begin work on a plan for November. Of course, given how busy they will be with the virus, that might not be possible.
  
  And I'm still unclear, Ken, do you think these restrictions are necessary or not? You sound like you're just trying to scare everyone. I put you in the same camp as Mike, who seems to think this is all an overreaction and we should just go about our normal lives and let the chips fall where they may.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  
  I may have been in "the same camp as Mike", to a degree, if you want to quantify that opinion I had at that time.
  
  But I have learned more over the past week, I have paid attention to what went on in France, and elsewhere. I have come into new information regarding how fast it is spreading throughout Florida (where I live), I am in contact with people who are dealing with it in the Hospitals and at the State level.
  
  I also like to think I have some small amount of common sense. Common Sense tells me they do not pay $50 an hour for armed guards, unless you are overseas in a high risk (combat) zone. But they are now....
  
  Common Sense tells me they do not pay six figure salaries to those who Manage/supervise security at hospitals. But they do now...
  
  Common Sense tells me the nearby Coast Guard and Air Force bases do not go on heightened alert, and post guards at little used entryways. Unless something serious is going on...
  
  Might be nothing, but then again, who thought France would ever go full blown 'Police State'?
  
  And no, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just put together the collective information I currently have, and project out to where I believe it is going.
  
  I am guessing each State will handle things as they see fit, and then call on the Feds only if they feel overwhelmed and unable to deal with it.
  
  Some states will be more aggressive with their 'quarantine' efforts than others.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Aside from buying a home from him, his status as an ex-Ranger would be something to note here.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And it is only a matter of time before the government comes for our guns.
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IslandBitesposted 4 years ago

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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The current worldwide death rate of closed cases is 11%.
  
  Based on the current trend, the U.S. will have 20 million cases by the end of next month. We will lead the world.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't scream fire in a crowded theater. 11% mortality rate? Where are you getting those figures?
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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago
Here is an article from CNN. You can get the same information from an article on FOX...but the left will complain it's from FOX and right wing propaganda. So, here is the same information from the leftie news source.

Data from China shows the majority of people with Covid-19 only suffer mild symptoms, then recover

(CNN) Most people who contract the novel coronavirus experience mild symptoms, according to data from China, where the worst of the epidemic now appears to be over.
Last month, scientists from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention published a research paper analyzing the data for the first 72,314 people diagnosed with Covid-19.

The researchers also looked at how severe the illness was for those who were diagnosed. The good news: more than 80% experienced only mild symptoms. Almost 14% were classed as severe cases, while the condition of almost 5% was determined to be critical.

About 13% of patients who tested positive for the virus did not show symptoms of illness. Out of the combined 2,143 cases, one child, a 14-year-old boy, died and nearly 6% of cases were severe.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/health/c … OL92tH0N04
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Also from CNN, written by a former head of the CDC. This isn't Ebola but downplaying this too much is one reason why America is not winning here. I've had enough of not winning.
  
  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/health/c … index.html
  
  "We learn more about this virus by the day, often by the hour and most of the news is bad. Here are five things we've learned in the past week:
  The virus is much more infectious than influenza or the SARS virus, which it closely resembles. This week, new data showed that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, can live on contaminated surfaces as the SARS virus can, so it may spread, sometimes explosively, from doorknobs, elevator buttons and contaminated surfaces in hospitals and elsewhere. But we also learned that, unlike SARS, patients become highly infectious before they become seriously ill, explaining at least in part why Covid-19 acts like a super-SARS, far more infectious than its vanquished cousin.
  
  It's not just older people with underlying conditions who become very ill and can die. Younger adults, previously healthy people and some children develop viral pneumonia. Although prior reports suggested that 80% of people got only mild disease, it now appears that about half of these people, despite not needing hospital admission, have moderately severe pneumonia, which can take weeks or longer to recover from."
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I hope people realize that getting coronavirus is NOT a death sentence. It has a 97 percent rate of recovery. People survive and get over moderately severe pneumonia every year.
  
  I don't understand the panic about it.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It is called exponential math, Mike.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Now we find out the WH was informed earlier about the severity of the virus, but Trump ignored the warnings by his aides. No surprise there...
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, it will be interesting because Congress received similar briefings, so they know Trump didn’t think it was important and trusted China to take care of it. Will members of both parties step up to confirm?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I hope so, Crank. I't obvious Trump doesn't know what to do. He needs to keep his mouth shut and let the pros handle it.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I think people understand this. Panic?
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  At a 3% death rate, Mike, how many dead is that?
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Kathleen Cochranposted 4 years ago
Trump said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and no one would stop him. No matter what he's done so far his followers and GOP Senators looked the other way. Maybe God is saying, "Hold my beer."
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What he is doing via all his misinformation is worse than just shooting somebody. And his supporters are looking the other way, so that statement is no lie.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The 'normal' world is coming to a close, we will be living in a different world for a year, or two, or longer. Its time to shift gears away from "Trump is such and idiot, I hate him" statements.
  
  I forgot I wrote an article a couple days back on the possibility of this pandemic leading to a police state, funny how when life gets hectic you can forget something like researching and typing up an entire article.
  
  The whole world is changing, bashing Trump isn't going to change that. It isn't going to change him being President. I guess if it helps you cope, keep at it, but its a wasteful effort, now more than ever.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  So, like Crank said.....look the other way, Ken. Defending Trump is a losing battle these days anyway.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  As is bashing him... though petty minds will be unable to stop themselves from doing so, no matter what is to come.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, it always seems like there's some excuse not to hold Trump accountable. Now, given he ignored briefings about the seriousness of the Coronavirus and is consistently saying things that are not true, leading to more chaos and more death, seems like we should pay attention to how a leader should behave and what we need from our President in a crisis. It's pretty easy to lead when everything is going well and you can pat yourself on the back for every little thing. Now, it's time to suck it up and let us know the truth. The worst Trump should be doing is just keeping quiet and at least not make things up on the fly. He can't even do that.
  
  If government does nothing else, it should at least be prepared for a crisis. The Right has always, always advocated for military preparedness. We need to have the best military in the world in case we need to fight, but they have not advocated for having the best infrastructure or the best emergency preparedness systems.
  
  You can't demean and denigrate science your entire life and then, when it calls for it, convince people that the scientists are not the liars you said they were. Trump has always said he knows better. Well, this time (and most of the times before), he clearly didn't.
  
  No, I disagree, now more than ever, we need to decide what we want from our leadership. And don't take this the wrong way, Trump is not responsible for the virus and it's hard to qualify exactly what a perfect response would have done - maybe we'd be more like South Korea now? Who knows? You're a good example of Americans not responding well to having their freedoms curtailed, even for a short time. It actually stands to reason the people who need to listen are a lot more likely to listen to Trump than to a Hillary Clinton.
  
  So I'm giving Trump a pass on most of the things he has no control over. But you'd at least think he could keep from making stuff up. The worst he should be doing is no harm, but he can't even do that.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
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TessSchlesingerposted 4 years ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace … 1e32b67e72

Now that I didn't expect.

QUOTE; As of today, the United States falls in last place with regard to limiting COVID-19 growth according to the number of confirmed cases. According to the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center, the number of confirmed cases in the United States grew at a faster rate than any other country in the world yesterday.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Another thing Trump will brag about before people tell him that it's not a good thing.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You just made me laugh!
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  promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It was a given because Trump supporters believed him when he said coronavirus was just a "Democratic hoax".
  
  The foot dragging will cost the country trillions of dollars and many lives.
  
  Total cases here have doubled in just two days.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I really would hate for any of my friends to die - including my daughter. I have a lot of friends there.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This is what we get when a decent percentage of the population is anti-intellectual, and we vote anti-government people in to the highest positions of government. I know we had at least a mild disagreement that got a bit heated, but I do respect your posts, and learn from them, as I do most others here who I disagree with more often than I do you.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, thanks. I do try to only post things that are accurate. But we all make mistakes. No worries.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha..nice. It's good to read of people owning up to their mistakes. I commend you for that.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
Corona isn't Trumps fault just like Ebola wasn't Obama's fault, just like SARS wasn't Bush's fault, and Clinton was only responsible for a handful of cases of herpes.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Where did anyone say Coronavirus is Trump's fault?
  
  Certainly though, what comes out of his mouth is his fault. And when elderly conservatives start dying, he may finally regret some of the things he's said.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe a few more cases than an handful for herpes.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Only Monica would know.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This anti-science propaganda is exactly the kind of thing responsible for our current predicament. Nice job!
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  People who think there's 37+ genders also think a tax will stop global warming. And when somebody questions it they are anti-science.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I understand how you are thinking about this, but the different references are not connected and the logic makes no sense and the criticism about a carbon tax isn’t entirely why there is a carbon tax, though we could see whether or not taxes on smoking stopped smoking.
  
  Nobody thinks there are more than two genders but science does tell us that sexuality is highly complex. That particular criticism just makes your whole point sound stupid to anyone with a shred of decency.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Mao and Stalin believed communism was science, and they killed anybody who dissented. Likewise the liberal left wants to destroy the lives of anyone who thinks differently than they do. they are in favor of diversity of skin color and sex, but that's about it. Independent thought is not allowed.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No different than the Right.
  
  Independent thought is allowed as long as it's fact-based.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Not really.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  How does independent thought work for the Klan, for instance? Ever tried to discuss abortion with an anti-abortionist? Ever tried to discuss atheism with the religious right?
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't care what the Klan thinks, neither do Republicans, or other conservative groups. They were formed as an extension of the Democratic party.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you do and so does the entire Republican Party since they're a significant part of Trump's support. That doesn't mean you're a racist nor am I accusing you of being one. Or are you saying all those white supremacists are voting for Democrats? Glad you know your history though, but we're talking about 2020, not 1920.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's pretty easy to get a Republican or any conservative to agree with you on the obvious evils of the KKK. Now trying to get a liberal to admit Antifa are a violent and hateful terrorist group, is like pulling teeth.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I imagine most liberals don't know that much about Antifa, but pretty much everyone knows about the Klan, yet Republicans embrace them with one arm while pushing them away with the other.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Watch out Crank, or he'll accuse you of stalking him if you ask him a question.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That's ridiculous.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It not that liberals are unwilling to admit that when Antifa and the fascists groups occupy close proximity, that violence often erupts. It's just that we don't have much sympathy for groups that spew the type of hate speech that some Antifa stand against.
  
  Now, apparently, there are some Antifa groups, particularly in the West, who have gone off the reservation: https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-far-lef … on-1477065
  
  In general, most liberals do not see standing against a hateful ideology as hateful. But crimes against police, whether either side is doing it, is wrong.
  
  And today's summary: Racist extremist groups, including neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, are encouraging members who contract novel coronavirus disease to spread the contagion to cops and Jews, according to intelligence gathered by the FBI. These are the people we don't mind Antifa getting into violent confrontations with because they pose a direct threat to the public safety of this country.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This type of information is so useless at this time, all it does is help divide people and push the fear and hate buttons. Even if it does come from the FBI it is pure stupidity on their part to release such information during such times.
  
  Whenever we are in crisis, whenever civilization is being tested, time and again we see that Diversity is a weakness, not a strength.
  
  South Korea is not Diversified, and their country pulled together, did hundreds of thousands of Corona tests, and attacked the outbreak before it could get severe.
  
  Japan, very much not a Diversified nation, also clamped down and the virus is already on the decline there.
  
  America on the other hand, can't get out of its own way... Democrats refuse to sign the Corona Virus relief act sent their way as the House plays politics.
  
  In your post you are spreading information that whites are trying to spread the virus to "Cops and Jews".
  
  Pockets of Diversity, political, ideological, racial, fighting one another and inflaming the infighting even as the crisis starts to overwhelm the system.
  
  Its ultimately why the future is China (South Korea & Japan) it is that ability to identify as one nation, one people, one culture that is a strength in the tough times and allows them to deal with crisis quickly and efficiently.
  
  While we watch our own system bicker and blame, our politicians drag their feet and point the fingers at the 'other side' hoping to leverage the crisis to their political/power-grab advantage.
  
  Well, the people who wanted the House to be controlled by Democrats so they could oppose the President, you got your wish, every step he takes to fight this pandemic they will try to counter and stall. Every effort he makes to close the borders and protect our businesses they will oppose.
  
  Instead of doing SOMETHING we will drag our feet and do NOTHING, yesterday was already to late to act, yet here the fools in the House are delaying action being taken... if they had something better to propose, why didn't they do so LAST WEEK ... NOT next week.
  
  Political divide, racial divide, cultural divide, religious divide... not a strength in the face of calamity, as we will be witness to in the coming months.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, this is quite a revelation on your part, Ken
  
  No offense meant, but those red drawers are peeking over the top of your trousers.
  
  First, you think that Trump should cancel press conferences, was that to protect him from criticism and oversight from his actions during the crisis?
  
  Now, the information regarding increase activity of white supremacists and their efforts to weaponize this virus to attack non-white communities should be muzzled by the FBI as useless? Useless for who? For you perhaps, but again you are not the target.
  
  What is non-diversity, Ken? You use the example of racially homogeneous societies like Japan and South Korea. Or are you thinking about everybody seeing things and thinking in lockstep? Well, this is not a homogeneous society and the opposite of not acknowledging the value of diversity and its reality is "white supremacy", in my opinion, the very thing that those seeking to cull non-white populations are anxious to advance. You are not among those are you? I certainly hope not.
  
  Diversity implies (all of us), why is there a conflict between that and the civilization you say that is threatened? We are all part of civilization here, why is there a distinction?
  
  You are part of the political divide that you seek to close, does not your complete capitulation in favor of Trump and Republicans without question find you taking a side?
  
  Regardless of what you say, I will need to see the true nature of any opposition in The Democrat controlled house to see WHY there is a delay on the relief package if any before I pass judgement.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Credence, I know you are very steeped into seeing the world based on race and ideology.
  
  And of course, it is not a surprise that you see me noting the success and quick reactions of nations like Japan and South Korea as 'white supremacy'. stating facts and pointing out reality always is these days with a large block of Americans.
  
  However, it was an attempt at pointing out the failure of breaking a 'nation' down into factions based on race, ideology, etc. it is a weakness in the face of crisis... and America will suffer immensely for it.
  
  These forums are currently an example of it, people in the face of a looming civilization threatening event are still clinging to their petty politics and the blame game.
  
  How severe is the threat... maybe a lot more sever than you know.
  
  https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-closi … 81291.html
  
  Also research:
  
  US Military prepping for coronavirus pandemic
  
  China Banks failing under 6 Trillion Coronavirus Cataclysm
  
  Sadly, I believe I was wrong, and Scott was right.
  
  This is going to change the world as we know it.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The group that has spent the last three years actively working to divide our nation won't change quickly but I hope the left will eventually pull together with the rest of this nation in this crisis.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "Yes Credence, I know you are very steeped into seeing the world based on race and ideology"
  
  The fact is, Ken, that you are too. There are too many that claim to be impartial observers and above the fray, when they and their attitudes are, in fact, at the heart of it.
  
  Ideology is the dividing point that is a primary source of contention in this society today. This is not 1917 or 1941, when we were just to come together and put our individual grievances on the back burner until the crisis passes. Those times will never come again.
  
  We can not use the crisis as an excuse for being uncivil and disrespectful of others.
  
  Instead of crediting homogeneity as the reason Japan and North Korea have been more successful in containment, you might point instead to their early and quick action in response to the threat. A responsible plan which we did not see here as Trump failed to take the magnitude of this on going crisis seriously, early on, and you know that. So, let's cut to the chase here, shall we?
  
  We are already "broken down" in these various factions. The rightwinger, by not addressing valid grievances, is determined to keep it that way. So, with the Rightwinger at the helm, America only has itself to blame.
  
  You have your own version of "petty politics" Ken. You just don't see it.
  
  As for blaming democrats for holding up the legislation for relief, I want a BI-Partisan solution. I don't trust Republicans to see to the needs of anyone beyond their own fat-cat constituency. When the democrats approve the package, then I can be confident that it will address the needs of ALL adversely affected by this crisis.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Lets do so.
  
  We didn't fail because of Trump, we failed because Congress cared more about trying to Impeach him as this came down upon the nation than facing it and dealing with it.
  
  While members of Congress were selling off their stock, they were also playing politics and pushing the Impeachment. They knew long before anyone else how bad this was and what was coming.
  
  Even now they play politics, they want to include College Debt relief into the Corona Virus Relief efforts... totally out of touch and insane... the crisis is marching us towards civilization's collapse and they are pushing something that will help NO ONE in the current crisis.
  
  The thing about college debt... if you don't pay, it doesn't matter... unlike being able to pay for food, or pay your electric bill.
  
  South Korea and Japan aren't broken down into petty squabbling political parties that would rather the country burn down around them than work together. They are not filled with people that see themselves as black or asian or white first, not American first. They are not filled with people who want to use the excuse to change the very core of what the country has always been.
  
  They are united as a people a society and culture... America is not.
  
  You are right in one thing, America in 1917 and 1941 was able to unite as one Nation and one people. Today they do not have that ability, and that failure will be quite costly to us ALL.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You're right about homogenous demographic. Diversity is basically cancer. The democrats call things the exact opposite of what they are, almost as a rule they won't break.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "You will not replace us!! You will not replace us!!"
  
  Yikes. How many more?
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  
  YIKES!
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I would say the immigration policies of South Korea and Japan plays a huge hand in their citizens being identifying as a nation.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  From the right:
  
  Diversity is cancer
  The left is at fault for the last three years of obstruction (as if the previous 8 years of Right obstruction didn't exist and should be forgotten)
  
  Nice! Nope, I don't see any banding together happening anytime soon.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Should McConnell be shocked since he literally did not consult with the Democrats before sending his bill to the floor? This blatant partisanship was sure to be met with pushback. And it's now McConnell and the right that get their panties in a bunch when Democrats want to include measures to protect the American worker and not benefit the CEO's of the country? Bunch of hypocrites.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "Likewise the liberal left wants to destroy the lives of anyone who thinks differently than they do."
  
  In what manner? How are liberals destroying your life since you claim you're not a Republican?
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, you don't get to know about my life. I don't want to bicker with you so stop trying to stalk me.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Why can't you answer my question, aa? I don't care to know about your personal life, just your unrealistic political stance. Now answer the GD question!
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  When the left talks about “anti-science” it makes me laugh. The goal is always to create a victim. If you disagree with a scientific theory, just like other scientists, you can't just disagree with it, you are given the label of “anti-science.”
  
  It reminds me of a Seinfeld skit where Kramer accused Jerry of being an “anti-dentite” because Jerry was upset with what a dentist was doing. It's the exact same thing. Much of liberal logic is a comedy skit.
  
  Here is a clip of the Seinfeld skit. This is liberal logic and Kramer is the quintessential liberal.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne_ucyzLK6E
  
  If you are against illegal aliens storming our boarders, you're not someone who believes in the rule of law, the left labels you “anti-immigrant” I guess it would not be PC to include the word “illegal”. It would be honest, but that doesn't matter to the left.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What does "storm the border" look like? Is there any legitimate reason one would want to cross the border?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Are you aware we had thousands of people from Mexico and South American countries trying to enter our border illegally? That is what storming the boarder looks like.
  
  Here is a YouTube video of it.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLgOtLbbcsQ
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Is everyone trying to enter that way? Aren't there people trying to seek asylum for various reasons? I am a retired school teacher and have taught kids from Mexico and South America. I have talked with many of them about their families and the dangers they escaped. It is my understanding that there is a system in place to handle that.
  
  There is a system which I understand is broken; however, people get paid to fix that system. They should do it.
  
  I'm sure criminals come in with descendant people that want a better, safe life for their families. I'm blessed to know many of their kids. I've watched Dreamers graduated from college and some go on for master's degree programs. Many are working at Home Depot, fast food, grocery stores or whatever to make a better life for their families.
  
  I have seen that video and was told that it was not actually portraying people storming the border. It doesn't matter. What about the good people that have legitimate reasons and needs to cross the border.
  
  Here in California, many Hispanics cross the border to work on farms. They go back home based on some system - don't know how it works.
  
  What do we do about the good people?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You seem like such a nice person.
  
  I will say you need to spend some time learning about our immigration system. I have personal experience as me and my family have helped relatives immigrate here from the Ukraine for quite a long time.
  
  There is a system in place for asylum seekers. There is a process for all asylum seekers.
  
  You can't just come into the country and avoid immigration. You have to go to a boarder checkpoint and start the process. Too many Mexican and South Americans believe they can come here, ignore immigration and our laws and take advantage of our economic system. It is an insult to all who go through the entire immigration process to be here legally.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Your first statement sounds condescending but thank you. My comments were to address exactly who you are alluding to. There is a system.
  
  I don't see any examples in writing or video that shows people being admitted the "right" way. A good method of teaching is showing the system at work.
  
  I have taught Dreamers whose parents brought them over illegally. They are human beings, honorable and many well educated. They are not a burden on the system. If anything, they help support the system through paying taxes. For some reason, they are not being allowed citizenship. Why should it be so hard for them?
  
  So many people are talking about what "cannot" be done. We teach children the proper way to do things. When we become adults, we should follow that model. Life would be far less complicated.
  
  Anyway, I hate for convos to go off track. I don't like carrying a discussion from thread to thread.
  
  We have reason to be afraid because our president doesn't seem to have a plan based on science, logic and strategic planning. I think that brings it back to the topic!
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That’s not exactly right. It wasn’t just that he wanted to keep the beach open. He didn’t want to tell everyone about the shark.
  
  It is different if you know about the shark and still choose to swim.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
The liberal media.
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IslandBitesposted 4 years ago
Surgeon General Jerome Adams on Monday reiterated an urgent call for Americans to follow recommendations to stay at home in order to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus.

“I want America to understand this week it's going to get bad... We really, really need everyone to stay at home.” Adams said Monday in an appearance on NBC’s 'Today.'
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peterstreepposted 4 years ago
I’m getting a bit sick of all those people accusing the right or accusing the left of this or that. It’s not the right, it’s not the left. It’s YOU. Stop generalising. If somebody here on hubpages, or anywhere for that matter, has an opinion. It is a personal opinion. Not a rightwing opinion or a leftwing opinion. It’s because of this labelling that you support a divided country. It’s already sad that the US has only two parties, so you get easily a divide country. Right or left. Apparently the middle doesn’t exist, or up or down... in both parties you have a gamma of opinions, don’t throw the extreme right and right on one heap. That’s making politics black and white. You simplify the world and politics. And the world is not simple it is incredibly complex.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ding ding. My opinion is that you hit on one of the biggest problems with America right now. If I say I think that we need to beef up our social safety net programs, someone says I want to take their guns!?!?
  
  I will say that it's hard for me to refrain from calling someone a Trumper as the Trump worldview is simple and his die-hard supporters are extremely predictable. Then again, this also does not apply to absolutely everyone who supports Trump.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I know it's easy to do so. A lot of people become more extreme behind the keyboard. As you say; Pink becomes Red and Red becomes Communist.
  Often when you talk with someone face to face (bit difficult at the moment because of the corona restrictions..) I notice that people are much milder and more open than behind the computer screen. It's easy to generalize, and put labels. But people are normally different in lots of ways. You can still have a good conversation with each other even if you have a different political point of view. Nobody is taking Republican Photo's or making a Democratic Dinner.
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "Often when you talk with someone face to face (bit difficult at the moment because of the corona restrictions..) I notice that people are much milder and more open than behind the computer screen."
  
  Great point once again. Also, people are less likely to call an elderly lady names in person, and less likely to call me names in person as they are not sure how I may react.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  absolutely. That was one of the reasons why I changed my profile picture a year ago from a sunflower into a portrait. So you know who you are speaking to. It makes it more personal.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  My kind of guy! Thank you!
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome. I had to say it.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
As Onusonus continues to defend Trump's racism and Ken and Mike defend fascism, I'll just leave this here.

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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I'll be pleased when he's gone this November. I miss the "no drama Obama" days!
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The concept of fascism is unknown to Valeant as well as the idea of racist. These words have been used so often is so many circumstances their real meanings are lost. What a shame.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No, these words mean the same as they always have, Mike. Sad you don't realize this....
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not a Trump supporter. But it the government is going to force everybody to shut down the country for a virus that has a 3.2% death rate, then I'm going to go ahead and blame Pelosi for killing a bipartisan spending bill because she didn't get away with sneaking abortion funding into it.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No one called you a Trump supporter, just a defender of his racism. You didn't seem to deny being a defender of racism I noticed.
  
  Now, look over at anyone you may love who's 60 and over and tell them you are fine if they die. That's basically what you're saying here publicly. Man up and do that in your real life instead being an internet tough guy.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, that sure does make me want to change absolutely nothing about myself.
  Trump's not racist, you're just a liberal, and everything you disagree with is racist to you. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it no matter how wrong you are. Nobody can take that away from you.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Honest question. Do you have any friends who are minorities?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  He's not too big on answering questions. Believe me, I've had experience asking him several.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Stupid question. I'm not telling you anything about myself.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Toljaso! Bwahahaha!
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Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago
We've got the Trump party for the American people, and we have the Pelosi party against the American people.

I'm hoping for the biggest landslide in history in November. I think I'll get it too.

More than 3 years straight now the Pelosi party has sought to sabotage American citizens at every possible opportunity.

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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It may be a landslide on the other side if Trump keeps running his mouth about the coronavirus. He certainly can't use the economy as a measure of his worth as POTUS.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  
  Wrong
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  How is a President who feeds Americans lie after lie about the Coronavirus, thereby leading to more death and misery, "for" the American people.
  
  Sounds like he's a lobbyist for mortuaries.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That is one of the sickest posts I've read on this site.
  
  Congrats.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Are you joking? Trump is lying every day about the Coronavirus and I’m sick? His stupidity, lies, misinformation, and delay in acting by not taking this seriously will kill people. Sick? You need to look in a mirror, Ms. Gaslighter.
  
  Dr. Fauci just did an interview where he was asked what it was like standing next to the lying POS, and he said there was nothing he could do.
  
  Want to see what a real leader does? Try Gov. Cuomo in NY.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently you don't pay any attention to the many sick "memes" those from the Right are posting. Congrats.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You really haven't been paying attention, have you?
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Weird that you can read 'diversity is a cancer' and not think that is one of the sickest posts you've ever read on this site.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Trump supporters are easy to identify by their disgust of the truth. Much like the man they admire for the same...
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't see that one but I will point out that one sick post didn't deserve another. You stoop, you are just as dirty as the other person in the mud.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What is actually sick - a post or misinformation and lies that lead to death?
  
  A truly sick individual is one who would spend her energy being indignant about the fantastical as opposed to the practical and real. A post has no outcomes. The president’s lies do.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Bend over for your corporate overlords.
  
  The current bill is a Republican looting of taxpayer dollars for the benefit of large businesses and not average workers.
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TessSchlesingerposted 4 years ago
I thought this a really interesting map. It is a projection of what the various outcomes will be in various states depending on what action is taken.

https://covidactnow.org/

Also thought it very sad that doctors in Italy are now letting people over 60 die.

QUOTE: Dr. Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy, the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines.

QUOTE: Italy has suffered more coronavirus-related fatalities than China, with 4,825 confirmed deaths and 5,000 confirmed patients in the last 24 hours, Channel 12 reported on Sunday.

QUOTE: Israeli M.D. Gai Peleg, who is currently working to save lives in Parma, Italy, told Channel 12 that things are only getting worse as the number of patients keeps growing.

QUOTE: Peleg said that, from what he sees and hears in the hospital, the instructions are not to offer access to artificial respiratory machines to patients over 60, as such machines are limited in number.

https://www.jpost.com/International/Isr … -60-621856

In Spain, dead bodies of older people are being found in their homes.

QUOTE: Soldiers drafted in to help Spain tackle the coronavirus pandemic by disinfecting and running residential homes have found a number of elderly people abandoned and dead in their beds, according to the country’s defence minister.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … se-steeply
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crankaliciousposted 4 years ago
I don't understand the $500 billion of corporate bailout money. Shouldn't these companies have savings to carry them through this? And if they don't, shouldn't they go out and get a second job to pay their bills?
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ha!
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's called Disaster Capitalism.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And yet it is expected that a government that's over twenty trillion dollars in debt should be bailing them out.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know what's expected.
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crankaliciousposted 4 years ago
So you're okay with the following Onusonus:

1. $500 billion in corporate welfare
2. 10 million deaths
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Believing the government is the only thing that can solve your problems is a disease of the mind and I can't help you with that.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Try answering the question. Your statement isn’t correct anyway.
  
  And who do you think should solve this virus nothing if not government?
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PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago
Ditch Mitch.

https://amymcgrath.com/
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TessSchlesingerposted 4 years ago

South Africa just went into complete lockdown. Will be enforced by the military and the police.

What do I buy?

Supplies?

My sister is coming to fetch me from Cape Town tomorrow morning and it will more or less take the whole day for the journey between here and George.

I have no doubt that the shops will be packed on Thursday as everybody prepares for a very long seige.

So I'm going shopping early tomorrow morning.

What are the most important food items for me to buy. I don't have any supplies.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Rice, dried pastas, canned goods, eggs, vegetables and fruits.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks. I can't think straight at the moment. I'm making a list of suggestions.
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  We're in lockdown too. Nuts are good too and canned beans. Proteins. Non-perishable food.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Will have to get non-perishable food. When I left South Africa two weeks ago, I had gotten rid of everything. I never dreamt I would be back within a week, no home to go to, and nothing in terms of supplies.
  
  I think I've been in shock for a week.
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Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago
It turns out McConnell wanted to enable Mnuchin to allow stock buybacks for large companies with his Senate bill. The Dems have seen this movie before and are fighting for small businesses and people who've lost their jobs due to the pandemic.

Of course, Mitch made a fire and brimstone speech about how the Dems are trying to hurt the nation with their bill. Mitch will face a reckoning in the near future I do believe.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's time to get rid of Mitch. I'm urging all who oppose him, regardless of whether or not they reside in Kentucky, to donate to his opponent, Amy McGrath.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That's a BIG 10-4, Panther.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  "The Dems have seen this movie before and are fighting for small businesses and people who've lost their jobs due to the pandemic."
  
  Randy, it's your turn in the barrel. Not because it is you, but just because your statement gave me the opening.
  
  If you want to bash either side's 'Bill' you should take a look at what you are bashing—or defending.
  
  I spent a couple of hours today scanning and reading the Democrat's version of the Coronavirus bill, (1400 pages). I wouldn't wish such an effort on anyone, but here is the link if you want to refute any of the coming points.
  
  Democrat's 3rd Coronavirus Bill
  
  It looks to me like the Dems are fighting for their pet projects more than they are for ". . . small businesses and people who've lost their jobs"
  
  Now, to be clear, I am only addressing the Democrat's bill because it is the one I scanned. I haven't done the Republican bill because I fully expect to find the same kind of BS in it too.
  
  The current "$500 billion for corps" criticism is nothing more than a hollow reiteration of partisan talking points. If someone wants to use it they should be prepared to defend the stuff in the Dem's bill.
  
  As I scanned their bill I felt it would not be too far off-base to claim that at least a third, if not more,of the Bill's costs had nothing to do with the coronavirus remediation costs. Of course, that is an exaggeration, but if you scan the bill I bet you will come to a similar conclusion.
  
  All justified by this soon-to-be-infamous legislative language: "to prevent, prepare for, and respond to the coronavirus."
  
  The Democrat's bill includes such non-coronavirus-related issues as; collective bargaining, rural broadband access, national forestry programs, Indian Education programs, etc. etc. etc.
  
  It was amazing to see how many pork projects were in the bill—amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars. It was embarrassing that this is what our politicians are doing in a time of national crisis.
  
  I was going to include some section highlights, but there were just too many.
  
  If one, (not you, but I think it was Valeant), wants to bitch about the Republican's $500 billion corporate loan provisions, they should also be ready to defend the $500 billion cumulative efforts by the Dems to sneak in their favorite projects.
  
  To repeat, I am beating up on the Democrat's bill because it is political shenanigans at their worst. But I am not giving the Republicans a pass. I would bet their bill is just as self-serving. But I surely wouldn't want to be criticizing one bill over the other as 'untrustworthy', (that's for you Cred), partisan politics. The Rightwinger can't hold a candle to the 'Left-wingers' in this example of BS.
  
  GA
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Let me know when you've scanned Mitch's version, Gus.
  
  I realize your crack rules your opinion.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Now that was classy Randy.
  
  GA
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like both sides are full of crap. And still the useful idiots continue to let them tell us how to spend our own money.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What they need to do, is sit down with both versions, and hammer out a compromise... today.
  
  Get rid of the worst parts of the Reps version that the Dems hate, get rid of the worst parts of the Dems version that the Reps hate. Make it FOR THE PEOPLE so we can survive this before it is to late.
  
  Businesses won't survive, bills won't be paid, with the majority of people sitting home, this is not the time for grandstand politicking, this is the time for action.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I overheard, GA.
  
  After looking at all this, both parties are "over the top". This is the time for compromise. I am not pleased with the Democrats stuffing a running progressive laundry list into what has to be an emergency stimulus bill. It is not designed to be a featherbed for a myriad of causes, that I probably would support under other circumstances, but now is not the time.
  
  But, I am not just handing over money to corporate entities without proper oversight against abuse of the funds, as I certainly do not trust them. Trump's reassurance that he would 'watch them' does not give me a feeling of confidence. I want the money directed toward people, health concerns and small business enterprises, with the fat cats last on the list.
  
  So, let's compromise, fix our problems regarding this legislation and light this candle!!
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Seconded.
  
  If these hacks cannot do this, now, we really need to consider how 'We the people' can find a way of removing them all from Congress, I am so sick of this stupidity, these arrogant corrupt C%^& need to have the 'Fear of God' put into them for failing the American people time and time again.
  
  I do believe it is possible, if they mis-handle this (and they currently are) there might be enough Americans stirred into action to make some serious changes occur. When people don't have work and can't feed their kids, this 'quarantine' will wear thin quick... and these ignorant games by the corrupt rich in Congress will be remembered.
  
  Look... whether you recognize it or not Cred, we have Trump because the people are fed up with their Government, 50 of the 60 or so million people that voted for him did so because they are absolutely to the point of loathing the corrupt, criminal nature of Congress and those who control it.
  
  I've been warning for a couple years now, if the extreme left get with the extreme right, and agree that their enemy is not each other but their government, watch out.
  
  We are seeing this now, Bernie supporters dumbfounded that they agree with Trump, they find it is Pelosi and the Democrats that are their primary opposition.
  
  And once again these idiots (Pelosi and those backing her) are overplaying their hand again, pushing for their Green New Deal, and all sorts of other pet issues that would have no hope of passing under normal circumstances... let the people go with out work long enough, let them go without food or the ability to pay their rent, see where this goes.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, you seem to be a reasonable fellow.
  
  With all this talk of diversity, what is the opposite of it? I think that the only things we have in common as Americans is acceptance of the rule of law and that Capitalism is our primary economic system. Who keeps on promoting anti-diversity as by nature we are all diverse? The opposite of diverse is uniform and if we are uniform around what pattern should that exist?
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Cred, I don't care about a person's racial background. I am a realist however and recognize racism exists. I recognize it exists when a white person is the minority as sure as it exists when a black man is the minority.
  
  Being in the Army and traveling the world, I often got to be the minority, in a variety of ways.
  
  My issue is, this nation is divided by identity politics, they preach it and teach it in our colleges, in our MSM News, you can't live in America and not be bombarded with it, unless you completely isolate yourself and limit your exposure.
  
  The politicians push people to self identify as a minority group for benefits from the government... at its core it is meant to be divisive, to fracture the people into groups that fight and blame each other. Male vs Female, Black vs White, Atheist vs Christian... tolerance and civility is out the window.
  
  This is what is bad, not that Hispanics will be the majority in the near future (as they are in CA today) and all others will be the minority. Identity politics and special privileges that favor one group at the expense of another are what I disagree with.
  
  And it is also why we are failing in the face of this crisis currently, we are a fractured people, being led by a corrupt government, that doesn't care about the American people... it only pretends to. But more and more of the people are waking up to this all the time... this fiasco they are currently playing with the Corona Relief Funds is really getting a lot more attention than they realize.
  
  When you have hundreds of millions of people sitting home...you have a large captive audience that normally wouldn't be wasting their time paying attention to what is going on in D.C.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  To begin we both know that this country is dominated by a white male power structure. I want that control and domination reduced by attacking structural inequity and abuse by the wealthy of our institutions and economy as I believed that was the best beginning.
  
  Structural Inequities in this society foments "identity politics". That is unavoidable. So, work toward remedies instead of resisting them and maybe there would not be a need for so much. History of the struggles of marginalized groups through out the 20th century is a guide as to why agitation has always been necessary to get done what what needed to be done.
  
  I don't see the Government giving me anything special because I am black, for instance. For many whites, leveling the playing field was akin to giving minorities and women an unfair advantage. And we know that is a distorted perception.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well lets consider this.
  
  White males dominated because at one point, well within our lifetimes, about 90% of the population identified as white.
  
  Additionally, historically, most industrial work from Steel mills to Auto manufacturing would be considered 'hard labor'. So those doing such work would be male (of any race).
  
  It is only in the last 20-30 years with the advent of computers, robotics, air conditioning, etc. that industrial and general labor positions were more easily done or shifted into more 'intellectual' lanes, allowing for either sex to be productive.... as most jobs are no longer reliant on stamina and brute strength to accomplish.
  
  Women have been able to excel far more because of technological advances than any laws or programs on the books.
  
  I believe if civilization were to revert to what it was a 100 years ago, those advancements would disappear. Take away electricity and all that is powered by it, and all these 'progressive' advances would be gone within a generation.
  
  A new Dark Ages would befall humanity.
  
  In so far as the "white male power structure" goes, as whites become a decisive minority, and more hispanics come to power in America, this too will change.
  
  Just as in the world today, more Chinese citizens are billionaires than Americans. Thirty years ago, they wouldn't even have one.
  
  As the industrial and economic might shifts to Asia, the power of the 'white male power structure' will become less relevant in America as the USA becomes less relevant in the world.
  
  Be careful what you wish for, as America becomes a less wealthy nation, so too shall all who inhabit it.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Would the 90% be because Native Americans were not included and Africans were not considered human beings.
  
  There should be a desire in all of us to love people, not regardless of, but because of people. Rainbows can't be maid without color. What God values should be valued by His creation.
  
  If a person doesn't believe in God, I can understand there would be no need to love. If a person declares love for God but does not love people, that person has a serious problem with God.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, its not about physical numbers but about wealth and control of resources. The fact that whites may not be in the majority by mid century does not affect that and those at the very top know this already. Only when resources are more equitably spread over a more diverse field and the opportunity to acquire is more fair can the influence and advantages associated with a "white power structure be abated.
  
  Technological innovation is a small part, the laws had to be changed to have attained what forward movement is enjoyed today.
  
  As for China and its rise, is that not be expected, with 3 times the population of the US, is it not natural that they are going to make its presence known? And you can slow this unpleasant inevitability by making sure that everyone here has a part to play in maintaining America's dominance.
  
  As for a more wealthy nation, the old model and assumptions have be discarded and replaced with new attitudes, as the globe is not what is was during the last century.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What do you think the solution to racial injustices, regardless of ethnicity, would look like in today's world? How do you determine who gets the job? How do you avoid racial profiling while keeping crime down? How do you avoid identity groups that hate people and want to harm them?
  
  This is not Utopia. We live in a world that has evil. How do we rid the world of evil?
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Ken had the right idea. Lock the lot of them in a room with both versions of the bill and don't let them out until they reach a compromise.
  
  And then, publish that bill in plain-speak so we will know who to kick out in November. The parties will have to offer a blood sacrifice for every piece of pork they allowed to stay in the bill.
  
  Otherwise, I can still see them trading 'favors' for pet insertions.
  
  GA
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  At a time where there is a very real pandemic and economic disaster, the Democrats shove all sorts of diversity (cancer) pork and anthropogenic climate change (hoax )pork into a bill to rescue the poor.
  
  Oh, and lets not forget how killing babies was more important than sending relief to working adults and families.
  
  You think Americans are going to forget this, and the previous 3 years of hoaxes? You probably do think that, and of course, that says it all about you.
  
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  From the guy who said, 'Diversity is a cancer.' You are so far out there, I doubt anyone really wants to be associated with anything you think or say.
  
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Diversity is stage 4 cancer, or is there a stage 5 of cancer? I'm no cancer expert, but I know diversity is cancer.
  
  I wasn't joking. I see the effect the comment has on you, and this is how I know I'm right.
  
  https://twitter.com/_WilliamsonBen/stat … 87266?s=20
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No wonder!!
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You're a white nationalist, WTS, and so are several other people on this board. Explains a lot.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Impressive! I'm clearly white, and clearly a nationalist. Now which of those is supposed to be an insult?
  
  Are you saying it is not okay to be white?
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You sound very much like a. Nazi.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You look like a cup of coffee.
  
  So your answer is that it is NOT okay to be white. You hate me because I'm white, and because I like my white self, I'm somehow a person from last century.
  
  You're the brilliance of the leftist. I'm definitely proud to not be like you.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Diversity - a range of things. Which includes people of all races and nationalities. Which somehow you think excludes white people. Now that is brilliance.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  haha, without diversity a species dies. Plain and simple. If you want to keep it in the family... Well, your genes won't make it long, Todd.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I can't speak for todd's intent. It may be nefarious. But looking at the link in his post I would have to agree with what I interpret as the sentiment.
  
  People are people. Plain and simple. We have more in common than we have differences.
  
  Those who judge everything by skin color and demand 'diversity' are only looking skin deep. We are better than the degrading, short sighted, divisive and (imo) racist way many on the left are attempting to divide us.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Lack of education is a funny thing. Right after the Civil Rights bill and the Voting Rights bills passed in the 1960s, people started calling them racist. Right after the U.S. began practicing Affirmative Action, people began calling it racist. People like that never raised any concern about the years of racism preceding that, but suddenly AA starts and they are concerned about racism. Weird, huh? That you?
  
  Never concerned about lack of diversity and how it affects education and social mobility, but boy, start talking about diversity and suddenly you’re a racial warrior.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that a lack of education is a funny thing. It becomes a sad thing when you couple that with a complete absence of critical thinking skilled.
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's super fun trying to educate the ignorant when they use their ignorance as a tool to justify that very ignorance.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You've pointed out something very vital. Accepting your problem is the first step to overcoming it. Good luck.
  
  Edit. I'm too disinterested to scroll back up to see what we are snipping about. I'm going to move along. Feel free to end this with something you've convinced yourself to be witty.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Now you're getting smart....
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Funny enough by diversity I was not thinking of skin colour, but about nationality and background...apparently the eye is in the beholder.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Are you saying Pelosi is concerned to ensure any given board has at least one person from somewhere like Greenland and another from Saudi Arabia?
  
  Strange.
  
  Although we both know you are purposely obfuscating.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I have never met Pelosi, so I can't speak about her concerns. But we were talking about society, not a small selected group of people.
  And no I was not obfuscating.(had to google that one.) I simply have a different perspective (not USA) and expressed it. I meant it when people talk about diversity, it's not race that comes to mind, but background, religion, and nationality. Race too, but not prominent. But apparently the word diversity is used as a synonym for skin colour. Didn't know that.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Well, maybe it's cultural differences then. Here, American refers to all of us. Or that is what I was raised to believe and I haven't been given reason to change that belief. We all came from somewhere, but our culture is American. Which is a conglomeration of all of our families ethnic diversities boiled down to really nothing and everything. We choose a la carte.
  
  Ethnicity is really just an attempt to subdivide yourself. I will say that ethnicity only appears to be a topic of discussion within the larger discrimination conversation when it involves a skin color. We don't worry about Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Polish Americans. Australian Americans.
  
  I doubt the identification of a Polish American on a breakdown presented to the left would be considered 'diverse'. Where as an African American or an Asian American would be considered to be.
  
  Why is that? The answer is skin deep.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It's funny you said that. The thing about genes not making it. Did this globalist "anti racist" or diversity ideal work out well, or not?
  
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  While I think it is totally ridiculous for Democrats to include solar panels, $15 minimum wage, carbon emissions, etc., it is crazytown to have a $500 million pot in DJT's hands which he will consider his own purse + bailouts for companies that don't use it to keep workers on the job.. Remember, he won't show taxes, won't cooperate with Congress, etc.
  
  Th taxpayer is in a fight for life with no weapons. If they are all there to help us, it would be comforting to see them work together to do it.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  There's no reason for Trump to make his tax info public. If for no other reason than it driving the leftists nuts, I would stick to not making it public. I enjoy seeing or hearing them whining about and crying about something which doesn't make any sort of difference to anything at all.
  
  Trump was already super rich. What would be great would be to see the tax information for the congress persons who went into congress - and THEN became millionaires.
  
  Have another meme, fresh off the presses.
  
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Many people who shared this philosophy have changed when they saw that his selfishness and cruelty reached down to them. I won't say any more about this because the point was Democrat and Republicans working together. Trump is a separate subject all together.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know Trump was already rich, Todd? He went bankrupt running two casinos and only an idiot can do that.
  
  He's terrified of his taxes being seen, otherwise he would release them like he claimed he was going to do. Just another lie added to thousands...
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, it is because people believe what they want to believe when it supports their position. You agree with me so you must be right.
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  But we should also divert $500 billion of our tax dollars to your corporate overlords?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Guess what? Guess who pays the highest wages and employs the most people around the world? Corporations. Guess who is responsible for the phone you talk on to the computer you use as well as this online forum and others? Corporations. Your banking, internet use, clothes you wear, car you drive are all provided by...guess what? Corporations. Even the home you have, the building where you work are built, financed by...guess what? Corporations. Our economic well-being is based on the well-being of guess what? Corporations. They also provide drugs, hospital equipment and more.
  
  The economic ignorance of the left is something I find overwhelming.
  
  Hunter Binden does nothing to get $50,000 a month and nobody of the left blinks an eye. An actor get $250 million a move and nobody on the left thinks anything of it. A sports figure gets paid $100 million and the left thinks it's great.
  
  A CEO of a corporation that employs tens of thousands of people responsible for meeting tens of millions in payroll and providing tens of thousands of careers, liberals are horrified if the CEO make $50 million a year in salary. Forget they provide the phones, computers, programs, cars, etc.
  
  Puh..lezeeeeezzz. Give me a break, take some courses on corporate finance and then lets talk about it.
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  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  But, why no oversight, Mike? I am not going to give carte Blanche to anyone with my tax money. Why should your corporate buddies not be held accountable as to how the money is to be used? You would require that of someone who receives food stamps. Fats cats will line their own pockets and enrich themselves at my expense. Fine, you get the money but with industrial grade cables attached. That is my opinion, anyway.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  There is plenty of oversight. It's called the FCC and the IRS for starters. The last thing you want is the government telling a business how they can conduct business.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, with Trump's hand picked head of the IRS protecting his taxes, we can rest assured he'd really run a taut ship.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  We can see from daily briefings, anyone that doesn't do his bidding and perpetuate his lies is "out of here!" He was corrupt before he ran. What did people expect?
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Man, welfare is totally great when it's funneled into the right hands, isn't it?
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I love the Hunter Biden dig. So relevant to the conversation!
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  And $300 mil to resettle "refugees." So once again the citizens of the United States were put last by the Democrats.
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peterstreepposted 4 years ago
Distasteful...
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Also very true. You live in Spain. How are you affected by the Coronavirus?
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No it's not true. It's linking corruption with climate change and abortion. And the Coronavirus epidemic is used to get this false mage across. It's completely under the belt and distasteful.
  I'm not attacking you by the way but actually the person who made this meme. Just plane shit.
  Thanks for asking Readmikenow.
  Spain is in complete lockdown. Everybody has to stay at home.
  You can only drive to somewhere if you have a really good reason, if not you will be fined. Most shops are closed , only the essentials are open for food, medication, banks.
  It's a disaster for self-employed people. tourism is dead, all the B&B, flights canceled, restaurants closed, cinema's closed, the whole bitsabang.
  My wife lost 2500€ income because of it as she is a violinist and all the concerts were canceled.
  In Spain 2.696 died so far and rising. 39.673 are contaminated.
  We live off the grid, So we can survive with our own vegetables and eggs from the chickens. I make my own bread. So we can go a long way...
  But it's pretty disastrous.
  I hope your family in Europe is doing ok.
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I perceive the meme as saying how the Democrats value these things over helping all US citizens deal with the pandemic.
  
  Hope things get better for your wife.
  
  As for my relatives in the Ukraine, they live in a very rural area. They have not really been affected at all. They have all of the food from their farm to eat and share. People in the cities are worried about restrictions. That is where most of the infections have occurred. There are like 84 cases and 3 deaths in a country of 65 million, so, it's not a big concern right now.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That's good to hear Mike. Yes, it's mainly the crowded areas of a country that are the most infected.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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Readmikenowposted 4 years ago
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  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Say what you want, but we should all be pleased that it looks like a bill is going to pass. Blame whatever side you want, but FINALLY, the two bickering, useless, do-nothing sides HAD to come together and negotiate and compromise. Kudos to Mnuchin and Schumer for getting something done.
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crankaliciousposted 4 years ago
If it makes anyone happy, the Democrats filling an aid bill with a whole bunch of pet project stuff makes me ill and yet another reason I despise the Democratic Party as it currently exists. They could gain so much by becoming much more fiscally conservative while remaining socially liberal. But that's not what politicians do. They pander. Democrats pander to different social groups while Republicans pander to their corporate overlords and give away our tax dollars to corporate interests.
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  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  This is accurate. Trump said today he would be the oversight for the billions of dollars gifted to the large corporations. Doesn't that make you feel all warm and cozy inside?
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Crank, you're absolutely right.
  
  Here we are, regular people in the trenches, dependent on their decisions of these politicians for our livelihoods, and it seems they only want to pander to their group. It's the way things have been since the beginning of politics.
  
  I was having a discussion of mine with a friend who teaches political science at a University. He gave me a very strong argument that how we perceive politics is based on how we were taught to perceive life. I was raised in a home with people who had escaped communist Russia, so I was taught to never, under any circumstances, trust the government. Live your life free of dependence on the government. No matter what it takes. He was brought up in a home of government workers. He was taught of all the great things the government does for people. He had a very valid point. Maybe I like him because he's a conservative Democrat. What do you think?
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That is too too rich. Corporate overlords for just Republicans? Who, again, is the presumptive nominee for the Democrats? They all have corporate overlords. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just willfully obtuse.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  How many soy based products do you consume each 24 hours?
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Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago
She's had a heck of a year already. How anyone could vote for her is beyond me, but then again, this world seems stranger to me by the day.

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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently there's a lot of things beyond you, Todd. If Pence and Trump get the virus, she may be in the Oval Office.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Was she asking for dirt on Trump to cheat in the 2020 election? I must have missed that.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Todd believes anything Trump says. So if Trump said she did....she did.
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  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Strange. You didn't need evidence to accuse Trump. You need evidence to run your mouth and accuse her?
  
  Why is that? I thought evidence was less useful than a dead cat for you.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  That was me, LTL. Try to keep your antagonists straight, will ya?
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Every single day for more than two years straight, and on this website - you stated over and over and over again how some guy named Bob was going to put Donald Trump into prison.
  
  You haven't progressed in your analysis and thinking capabilities since that time, I'm sad to say.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be sad, Todd. Be thankful the cretin is still in office after his 3+ years of lying to the American public. You already admitted you liked it when he pisses the Left off with his reluctance to show his taxes. Live with it.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
Democrat spending bill is crap. Here's a list of some of the lunacy that they want to impose on the economy instead of providing actual relief for people who are out of work because they got shut down by the government..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGDwF6YjF8M
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You miss the point, my boy!
  
  They WANT the Republicans to balk, they want this to drag on, so they put things in there that are so absurd, none of the Republicans will cross the line to support it.
  
  Every day that they can drag this on, every day that brings Americans more suffering and puts the economy further down the road to disaster, is one day closer to them regaining control of the Senate and Presidency.
  
  Or so they think.
  
  Because the media, and the Dems, will lay the blame for all of it on Trump. And if things get bad enough that is who they believe America will blame. Politics...
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Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago

I'm certain the Democrat voter is less intelligent than GOP voters, so really, it's just a matter of the right people getting angry enough. Most Americans aren't as dumb as the DNC would like for them to be.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Don't count on it, Todd. Most Americans aren't dumb enough to believe Trump is the answer to all problems. He can't handle his own misinformation about the coronavirus.
  
  In other words, don't be too certain...
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  Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Here is a story about how 60 percent of Americans approve of how President Donald Trump is handling the Coronavirus pandemic. It is from CNBC...exact same story on Foxnews...but coming from a liberal source may make it a bit more real for those on the left.
  
  Trump approval rating rises as he responds to the coronavirus outbreak
  
  "Sixty percent of Americans indicated in the poll they approve of the way the president is steering the country in response to the pandemic, with 38% saying they disapprove. "
  
  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/24/trump-a … virus.html
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  hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  1025 sample size with the survey starting 3/16 and ending 3/22...Fake news from the MSM right?
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Speaker Nancy Pelosi's emergency coronavirus stimulus proposal contained a wishlist unrelated to the C0vid19 crisis -- including several provisions to the resurrection of the "Obamaphone" program. 300 million to public broadcasting, the political racial makeup of corporate boards, retirement plans for the community newspaper employees, tax credits for solar and wind energy.
  
  She seeks to eliminate debt held by the U.S. Postal Service, require same-day voter registration, pay off $10,000 in student debt per person, and mandate that airlines reduce their overall carbon emissions by 50 percent by 2050. Nancy hopes to force federal agencies to explain to Congress how they are increasing their usage of "minority banks."
  
  And, she also feels we need legislation that would provide for the automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas, and restrict colleges from providing information about citizenship status. Her bill would also allocate $35 million to the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. I mean is this not so important to those that can't buy food for their children or pay the rent?
  
  People need financial help, and some losing loved ones. Nancy Pelosi is putting all her efforts into making sure we all have art... She is hell-bent on focus on ripping off the American taxpayer to help pay for the liberal wish list of government handouts.
  Could this bunch be more disgusting if they tried?
  
  Hey, at least we have a president that will veto her wish list.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  As far as I know, a bill hasn't been passed yet, Shar. Mitch is wanting to give big business the ability to buy stocks back and reward the already filthy rich with bonuses as they did with the tax breaks.
  
  If you give extra money to the common man, they'll spend it and create more revenue back into the economy. Which do you think is best?
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct the bill has not passed yet or has it been signed into law. The president claimed he would not abide by giving big companies cash for stock buybacks.
  
  I certainly realize Americans need financial help, and they need it now. Actually they needed it a week ago... I aspected bickering, and there should be bickering when our Congress is handling something this important. However, it should be over the subject at hand, not the Kennedy Center or energy.
  
  In regard to your question, I have learned through life to look to simplify problems. In this case, right this minute is I feel we need to get cash into the hands that need to buy food, pay rent. Next, logically we need to keep companies up and solvent, so Americans can return to work. If we don't prop up our largest companies we will have jobs lost by the millions. I have only addressed your question. However, the bill needs to provide for all the medical aspects that are needed to fight this virus.
  
  I feel these big loans should come with regulations that will prevent stock buybacks and some assurance that jobs will be saved, not cut to benefit big businesses. So, in my opinion, I don't feel Congress should have a hard time using common sense and cut the pork, add regulations on Big Business loans, and get cash to the Americans quickly.
  
  I think the Congress is close to coming to some form of agreement. I look forward to seeing the bill. I will tell you if there is to much pork attached to the bill, and if Trump does not veto such a bill, he has lost my vote.
  
  Our citizens are hurting, and many need help, and that help does to an unexpected enemy, a virus. It's not a crisis about saving the arts or all the other BS Nancy tried to attach to the bill. If she wants to save The Kennedy Center or Public Broadcasting.( which I love and support) let her run a fundraiser... Not hold up cash from our citizens that need help.
  
  Randy, this was despicable. Congress needs to come together and stop all the BS. Let's face it, this should not be as hard as they are making it.
  
  The common man needs money, but they don't need a bandaid. They need jobs to go back to.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The Republicans' bill may have been a bit too lenient and loose for big business.
  
  The Democrats countered that by... enforcing restrictions and oversight on that money going to big business?
  
  No.
  
  The Democrats grabbed up every pet project that has been blocked or shot down in past years and attached it, showing the true disconnect, irrationality, and ignorance of the current leadership of the Democratic Party.
  
  Yahoo Finance published an article about how it would absolve up to $30,000 dollars of student debt. The comments blew up, within less than an hour it had over 4,000 comments, more Democrats, Progressives than anything else that were in disbelief... all said "this is not the time" "this is not the way". No one, amazingly, of the hundreds of comments I read, supported it.
  
  Across the board... any and every sane rational American rejected this effort, most found it truly despicable.
  
  And the Dems just won't let it go... they don't care about the American people, or America, just their power and to push through their agendas (even those 90% of Americans disagree with).
  
  Tim said it best:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HQEZLvcpM
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  It has been very apparent to me for a very long time that the Democratic party could care less about the American people. Never so evident than in the past three years. Despicable is putting it mildly.
  
  The Democratic Party needs new leadership, and well as a realistic agenda. They just don't get it, do they?
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The answer is "no." We couldn't have a more disgusting left wing party if they tried.
  
  They are trying, it seems, as hard as they can - and succeeding, I should say, at being disgusting in every way.
  
  As Ken, I think, pointed out - the whole point wasn't to get that crapfest passed, Nancy knows that wasn't going to happen.
  
  Their point is much much worse. They want a global depression. They want the middle class to suffer. They want people losing everything because THAT outcome is the only way they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning back the senate and winning the Presidency.
  
  So I wonder how they're going to get rid of Joe Yabba Dabba Do Biden, and insert someone not suffering from dementia into the presidential race.
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TessSchlesingerposted 4 years ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … oronavirus

QUOTE: The US has been appealing to its allies for help in obtaining medical supplies to overcome critical shortages in its fight against coronavirus.In his public rhetoric Donald Trump has been talking up the domestic private sector response to the crisis.“We should never be reliant on a foreign country for the means of our own survival,” Trump said at a White House briefing on Tuesday evening. “America will never be a supplicant nation.”

QUOTE: The shortages will constrain the US ability to carry out mass testing in the near term, and the administration’s medical experts have been urging that tests are restricted to patients who have already been hospitalised.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  The media is spinning out of control. I really think many are finally realizing it. Some are not, and not much one can say about those that are not.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Why not read foreign newspapers. There are plenty in English.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  They bash Trump as well for the most part. She doesn't want to see this at all. Now if you have a Fox News version, it'll be right up Shar's alley.
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Plenty to choose from...
  
  Accra Daily Mail
  Addis Fortune
  Afghanistan Times Daily
  Africa Confidential
  Albania Today
  American Free Press
  Amrita Bazar Patrika
  Arab Press Network
  Armenian Observer
  The Armenian Reporter
  Armenian Weekly
  Athens News
  The Atlanta Georgian
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Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago
Just heard @TimCast say something I thought was pretty hilarious, but completely true.

He said these horrific church of woke social justice morons are all extremely jealous of the corona Chinese Kung Flu because it actually kills people.

It's exposed how stupid the joke is that someone is hurt by being "misgendered."

And there was that gutter trash Vice article saying "life saving" genital mutilation surgeries were being denied to the trans elite due to the Kung Flu.

*shrieks in Marvel comics horror*
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  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  ????????????????????
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  So where is the Relief Act at, I heard it was passed, but now I see something posted just an hour ago that says the House/Pelosi stopped it again?
  
  "Democrats Just Obstructed The Emergency Relief AGAIN?! "
  
  Is it passed or not?
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Why did Democrats not like the bill, Ken? It seems Trump--in the fine print of the fine print--will stand to gain from the stimulus as do the large corporations.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets … li=BBnb7Kz
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  So will you. Must have been solely for your benefit, right? Paid off the president just to get it.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No, you pay him off with your regular apologies for his actions, Dan. I don't owe him anything....
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  IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  What I read is that Lindsey and others want to stop it.
  
  The Republicans have said they will oppose fast-tracking the $2 trillion coronavirus response package unless what they called the “massive drafting error” in the legislation, which they say would create an incentive for employers to lay off employees, is fixed.
  
  "Unless this bill is fixed, there is a strong incentive for employees to be laid off instead of going to work. ... We must sadly oppose the fast-tracking of this bill until this text is addressed, or the Department of Labor issues regulatory guidance that no American would earn more by not working than by working," Graham, Sasse and Scott, of South Carolina, said in a joint statement.
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  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I heard that too. It seems that the $600 weekly unemployment ins. payment will automatically increase by $600 p/week—above standing unemployment rates. Amounting to a $24+ hourly wage rate.
  
  That seems like a problem to me too. Why work for $15 p/hr when you can collect unemployment for $24 hour?
  
  Of course, that is just what I 'heard', I didn't dig into the details.
  
  Obviously, this Bill was rushed. I don't have a problem with either side balking at such discrepancies as this.
  
  GA
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with you. I haven't seen it either, but heard that govt. will end up paying them more to stay home than to work; a self defeating "help" if there ever was one. Remember how many people took the extended unemployment before rather than take a job they didn't really want?
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Why should people take a job they don't really want?
  
  Why should they put up with the bullying and abuse from bosses?
  
  Why should they be employed to do unethical things - like fill the earth with junk and pollution?
  
  I don't understand.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Because most people can't make a living doing fun stuff. Painters, you-tubers, cupcake wars, whatever super easy high paying jobs people on HGTV get.
  When the real world comes knocking, most people have to do stuff that sucks to get by.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say the job had to be fun.
  
  I said why do we have to take work that we hate, that kills our health and mental equilibrium, that are unethical, that exposes to to bullies - all the very real aspects of the modern work place.
  
  You are quite right that most people have to do stuff that sucks to get by. Precisely. But how about changing that.
  
  It's doable.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No, it is not "doable" at this time. Perhaps in a hundred or two hundred years we can do away with all the jobs people don't like. But not now and not in our lifetimes.
  
  Unless, as I commented elsewhere, we accept a large decline in our lifestyles in order that others do not need to do the unpleasant work we are willing to do in order to have more than a subsistence life. You have a grossly inflated opinion on just what automation and AI are capable of doing.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Because when you're over the hill with a spouse, several children and a mortgage most people are on a set path that is difficult to divert from unless they wish to upend their whole lives and the lives of their family. You might have to move or get more education which is time consuming and if you're having to work long hours for whatever reason, you don't get enough time for it.
  There's all sorts of reasons that most people when they're in a particular career they are stuck with it until retirement.
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  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  +1000000000000. Most people are programmed that work=drudgery+boredom+other hellish endurances. They aren't programmed to believe that work should be fun. They seek work because of security, not fun. It takes a brave person to pursue work that is fun in addition to paying well. Studies show that over 75% of people hate their jobs; however, they stick to their hellish jobs because they are so risk averse to find a job that they truly love.
  
  Also, these same people are inculcated in the premise that to be "mature" is to stick out a monotonous and purgatorial, even hellish job. They contend that to have a job that they love is to be "unrealistic" & "immature" so they endure this hellish job, anticipating retirement. A very small percentage of people have the balls to do what they love.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  In fairness, I also think that we're not statistically able to provide jobs that everybody loves.
  
  Let's just say, for instance, that 50% of people want to be writers, 20% of people want to be singers, 10% want to be street cleaners, 5% want to be doctors, and 15% want to be POTUS.
  
  The bottom line is that the market place just isn't able to provide the type of jobs that suit everybody's aspirations.
  
  There are things that need to be done, and nobody, but nobody likes doing them.
  
  I do think there's a solution, though.
  
  As we have seen with the shutdown of China, there is far less pollution and the world has almost started healing itself. So, really, we don't need that much production.
  
  What if we were comfortable with the machines and AI doing a lot of the work, sharing labour (maybe 10 or 20 hours per week) to get the shity stuff done, and, for that, we are paid a small stipend that enables to cover the basics.
  
  The rest of the time we can spend doing what we love (I happen to believe mot of us are naturally creative and innovative) and we can design bridges, figure out how to fix the ocean, paint murals, invent a new product, and so on.
  
  What say you?
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  If people only work 10 or 20 hours per week, covering the basics of their needs, they will have just that - the basics. Food, clothing and shelter, all at minimal amounts.
  
  Whereupon they will cry out that the world isn't fair, that they want what others have. They want a $1,000 cell phone, a nice car, a bedroom for each person in the household and a college education. They want name brand clothing rather than used jeans from the local charity, they want a vacation each year, travelling abroad. They want a computer and internet service, they want cable TV, they want to eat out at a nice restaurant.
  
  The world cannot provide a life of luxury if the production of those luxuries is cut 50% (no, AI cannot build you a new home, cannot fix your car when it breaks, cannot drive the tractor harvesting the carrots you want).
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  They take a job they don't like because they like to eat. Because they want a roof over their heads. Because they feel a need to provide for the needs of themselves and their families.
  
  You may not understand this, but then I do not understand how so many people are happy to exist off the charity of others rather than providing for themselves.
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  dianetrotterposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Mnuchin explained that the $600 would be for 3 months only. I can't imagine a rational person quitting a job held for 2 or 3 years for $1800 total. M said that they don't have a system that can determine basis for the $600 which some would need so they give it to all for this short period of time.
  
  A person that would quit for $600 extra for three months is usually a person who doesn't have a job in the first place. The mentality of a person that would do this doesn't have good judgement and would not make good decisions on a job.
  
  It's a character and IQ issue.
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
Here are some interesting stats to show how perceptions are so different between the two political parties:

World 1: Whom Democrats trust for coronavirus information, per a CBS/YouGov poll: the CDC 87 percent, your governor 75 percent, the national media 72 percent, friends and family 72 percent, religious leaders 44 percent, President Trump 14 percent.

World 2: Whom Republicans trust, according to the same poll: Trump 90 percent, the CDC 84 percent, friends and family 81 percent, religious leaders 71 percent, your governor 65 percent, the national media 13 percent.

The truth is no longer the truth, for sure.
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  Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Trump aside, if you trust the media you deserve all the angst, anger and neurosis that is consistent in your life.
  
  Turn of the Idiot Box, ignore the Billionaire owned propaganda rags like the WP and NYT, and you will find it a lot easier to enjoy life and be stress free.
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
Looks like Nancy caved on her ridiculous wish list. Apparently holding Americans hostage for her fallacious ideologically driven agenda didn't set well with her constituency.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … S58DNinAEI
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  Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate your posted this link. However, you can almost see some sticking their fingers in their ears, and humming. I mean how could anyone step up and defend her despicable failed maneuver? How many more nails can their coffin hold? I mean really, how many?
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently both sides have come to an agreement on the spending bill. I'm sure it's still stuffed with a bunch of bogus crap that helps out their own special interests for both Democrats and Republicans.
  
  Government spending should never be the answer. This will only open the flood gates.
  Liberal handbook: Never let a crisis go to waste.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps if...
  
  1.) corporations hadn't used the benefits from the tax break for stock buybacks to help their wealthiest members
  2.) if Trump hadn't tried to extort Ukraine with funding Congress approved
  3.) and if Trump hadn't reallocated money for his wall that Congress allocated for other needs
  4.) Trump didn't misuse his foundations funds on his campaign and for personal items such as a painting of himself
  
  ...you could say the discretionary 'slush' fund that they asked for of over 400 billion that Mnuchin and Trump would distribute was a good idea. What you call a wishlist was a specific list of where monies needed to go since the Trump administration has shown itself to be completely untrustworthy in terms of money Congress allocates.
  
  What you call 'nails in a coffin' is what I called accountability since Trump has shown he will use any resources available to him for personal benefit.
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  Onusonusposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Anybody who thinks the airlines could successfully reduce their carbon emissions by 50% have zero understanding of economics. Only politicians and celebrities would be allowed to fly in their private jets. everyone else would be taking the bus. Diesel buses. Tons of people riding for weeks in smoke billowing, diesel driven buses. Everyone except for Tom Hanks and Leo DiCaprio.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Can you honestly believe that any, or all, of those things would have limited Pelosi's attempt at pork barrel politics? If so, you have to be the only person in the country that does.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Did I try and defend all the things in the House bill? Not at all. But I do love how you ALWAYS misinterpret the points I try and make. I simply explained why there had to be a more detailed version since Trump cannot be trusted to manage money. Solid deflection attempt by you and Onus though.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  You're right - I must have misinterpreted. I don't know how to interpret your "what if" statement any other way, though - it pretty plainly suggested that if those things hadn't happened we would have seen Pelosi embarrassing herself.
  
  Were you just bashing Trump again, without actually meaning what your words said?
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  If by noting how there isn't much trust in Trump to handle money because he has misappropriated funds, illegally in the case of his foundation, you think that is bashing him, you're more of a sycophant than I thought. Wait, I've known you'll defend his most egregious actions for a while now, including deflecting away from a man who uses charity funds for his own interests. That's just the kind of guy you are I guess.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  None of which has a single thing to do with the topic of Pelosi's pork. Which was the statement you responded to.
  
  And THAT, in my mind, makes another whine about Trump just more bashing. You left the topic to tell us all how terrible he is...again...and that's bashing, plain and simple.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  So you're telling me that in being specific with a list of where monies should go because Trump cannot be trusted to handle money, that everyone in the country was going to agree with her list of where needs might be? I didn't leave the topic, but had to walk you through why there was such an encompassing list because you're one of the willing that excuses's Trump criminality and excess when it comes to money.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm saying that repeating for the umpteenth time "TRUMP BAD!" has nothing to do with Pelosi filling a true emergency bill with her choice pork. She wasn't putting in needs of the Corona pandemic; she was putting in her wish list for unrelated liberal wishes. Open borders, forgiven loans, Sanctuary cities, etc. that have exactly zero to do with the pandemic. It's called "Pork", and has nothing to do with your perception that one of the most successful businessmen in the country can't handle money.
  
  The only thing you offered was a list of what you perceive Trump to have done wrongly (TRUMP BAD!) in the past and suggested that Pelosi wouldn't have put forth her disgusting pork projects if Trump hadn't done them. A really silly suggestion, and when called on it tried to deflect into Trump's failings rather than Pelosi's pork.
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I read through the table of contents for the actual bill and what was covered. This is the difference between actual politicians and the people who said give us a $425 billion slush fund and let us decide who gets what and we don't need to tell you who actually got what for six months after the fact. Were there requirements tied to some of the money, sure, because after businesses didn't do much to help the average worker from the tax cut, that was a necessity. What you call pork. And before you go screaming quid pro quo, these requirements weren't to personally enrich Democrats or help them in the upcoming elections, they are for the good of the country.
  
  And thank you for perfectly demonstrating how you see Trump's crimes as just a perception. Like he's done nothing illicit or illegal. Your blindness to perfectly provable crimes makes my point. And seriously, there isn't much point in us having discussions about much. I think you're a sycophant and unable to see the truth of these things. You're pointless to have a reasonable discussion with. Please avoid my posts, you're a complete waste of my time.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  OK. I take it back - you weren't bashing Trump, you were lauding Pelosi for trying to open our borders, for trying to eliminate debt from people that borrowed too much, for trying to allow illegal voting, for trying to get rid of the electoral college. All in the name of helping with the Corona pandemic.
  
  Gotta love your "perfectly provable crimes", too. Like Trump's collusion with Putin to throw the election, or his phone to the Ukraine to pressure the president into helping him with the election (which is denied by that same president). Really provable, weren't they?
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  Valeantposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, you're more brainwashed than I thought. Illegal voting, open borders - solid conservative conspiracy theories. Let us know when you find Obama's birth certificate.
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose you're right - she doesn't want illegal voting, she just wants to make what is illegal now legal tomorrow in the hopes of more Democrat votes. Technically there is a difference; practically, she is asking for illegal votes to be acceptable.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know Trump is "one of the most successful businessmen in the country?" Cause he said so?
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  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Because he has some $4,000,000,000. You want the same designation? Show your own 4B.
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  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this
  Furnish a link for that claim, Dan. And not one of his well known lies to Forbes where he included his father's worth.
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Valeantposted 4 years ago
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Onusonusposted 4 years ago
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