MAGA nation along with people like Michael Flynn are calling on President Trump to invoke The Insurrection Act to overturn the election and keep Trump in power.
This would allow President Trump to use the military to keep Biden from becoming President and to put down and resulting protests.
Do you believe invoking The Insurrection Act is necessary to overturn a fraudulent election?
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/1 … ncy-447986
First, I am not satisfied that there is any substantive proof that the election was fraudulent.
Flynn is suggesting nothing short of tyranny, to just give Donald Trump the election contrary to the votes of the majority.
They believe the election was stolen. If that's the case, and the Democrats are the ones who committed the act of tyranny, then shouldn't Republicans support using the military to keep Biden out of office?
And what constitutes substantial proof for you? "Joe Biden Appears...." is not proof.
Let's get all this evidence before the proper authorities to be evaluated since there seems to be something that is being hidden. Such a conspiracy must be quite vast and has bamboozled all qualified authorities regarding its discovery. This is Trump's administration, and even his appointees can't make a case that holds water? I have to wonder...
How about official legal machinery of this government taking this case seriously? Obviously they haven't.
I don't give a lot of credence to rightwing media sources, in general.
We are not turning around the votes of millions of people just because Trump has a wild hair up his bum, they, the accusers are going to have to do better, a lot better.
BTW, I did not make a statement one way or the other regarding the Mueller investigation.
Don't need to be tricky Al, it is just that in my experience when the Right speaks of "common sense" it is neither as common nor as sensible as they all would have us believe.
For heavens sakes, even Attorney General Barr said that he found no irregularities in the elections. Would Someone with his head so far up Trump's butt dare admit to something like this, if it were not true?
Just what is it that you people want, huh?
Do you want to redo the entire election, based on a suspicion?
EVERYBODY is biased against Trump, a universal excuse whenever things don't go his way?
Biden defeated Trump by almost 7 million votes, must be quite an extensive fraud allegation to cover 4 states and coicindentally the areas that have the greatest concentration of Democrats and minority voters being the focus of the complaints. If I did not know better, I would say that this Rightwing campaign has a racist tint, it is just that the Righties cannot say such things directly. Raul Paul of the Senate just admitted that the Republican Party needed to stop encouraging "non-voters" to vote, is that tangential to what this is all about when we show the cards?
Why do you wave a soiled crimson red, right wing rag of a publication and pass it off to me as objective journalism?
Cred, you're right. It's not a coincidence that all this fraud occurred in counties with large, black populations. Republicans know, proved by how they gerrymander districts, that black people have low turnout normally and that if they turn out to vote in larger numbers, it will swing elections. So they try to make it harder for them to vote.
Well, Crank, you can bet that the arrogance behind that attitude is pi$$ing us off.
As a result, we are going to bum rush, swamp the polls in response. It is just going to backfire on the GOP, like it did in GA, WI, PA, MI, and in regards to Hispanics pulling things in our direction, Arizona.
"He said that the “plus 5.6 percent” pattern is not caused by the above-mentioned voting machines being widely used in strong Democratic counties, as it can also be found in counties that have strong support for President Donald Trump.
The research has not been peer-reviewed."
Al right Al, you have made your point, I took a look at the article. It is just another observation from among many, is it to be considered any more credible than information from any other source on either side? Not peer reviewed, is this data conclusive?
You can answer my question: what do you people want?
If you think that conspiracy theories are sufficient to change the election's outcome, then you have another thing coming......
More lies. More pizzeria sex-trafficking rings? No proof? You mean like Trump campaign officials meeting with Russian intelligence officers? Fact.
You mean like a bi-partisan Senate Intelligence report about the whole episode that Republicans chose to ignore?
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sit … olume5.pdf
Another forum poster with no grasp of reality. Tell me which of these are true:
1. massive voter fraud
2. Mexico will pay for the wall
3. Sex trafficking ring under D.C. pizzeria
4. China pays for increased tariffs
5. Climate change is a hoax
6. COVID is a hoax
7. COVID was developed in a Chinese lab
8. Masks are ineffective at stopping the spread of COVID
9. The COVID vaccine will implant microchips in our brains
10. The KKK are good people
11. Sandy Hook was a hoax designed to get our guns
It's evident you don't understand what proof is. Data on Biden votes appears to show he did better... blah, blah, blah.
The problem isn't voter fraud, it's lack of critical thinking skills.
No. What's done is done. What I'd prefer to see is a bipartisan agreement to ensure we never have an election where millions of voters feel disenfranchised by rampant fraud and manipulation created through one party diligently working to create an unfair playing field.
I'd like to see media not so insanely biased that journalism is dead in their ranks.
You mean like Republicans gerrymandering every district in site in an attempt to disenfranchise voters and removing easy access to voting drop-off boxes to make it harder for people to vote in counties that don't usually vote for Republicans? Like that?
You keeping repeating the same lie using terms like "rampant fraud", except there's absolutely no proof of such fraud. There are examples here and there of human error, but there will never be an election where human error does not cause some issues.
Like most Republicans, you just keep repeating the same lie: rampant fraud, massive fraud, pizzeria sex-trafficking ring, Mexico will pay for the wall, China will pay for tariffs, climate change is a hoax, masks don't work, the vaccine is a trap...
Interesting. Ninety percent of what you claim I've said is completely false. But, if you think it's rare examples of human error and not fraud I'd have to assume you are willfully ignorant of facts easily obtained.
I knew you'd focus on the human error thing instead of the litany of lies you and other Republicans perpetrate over and over again. Why should anyone believe you?
Again, the lies you willfully repeat: rampant fraud, massive fraud, pizzeria sex-trafficking, Mexico will pay for the wall, China pays for tariffs, climate change is a hoax, COVID is a hoax, COVID was made in a Chinese lab, the vaccine will implant microchips in us.
It's conspiracy after conspiracy.
It's funny to me that your so-called fraud is never white voter fraud. It's all black voter fraud. It's in the cities in primarily black voter districts. All Trump's legal challenges were in heavily black districts. Why?
Well, she'll probably pass out from the shock, but I must point out that I've never seen LtL agree with most of those lies. However, if one continues to support the party and its leader, who actively spreads these lies, then one must take some responsibility for their continued perpetuation, in my opinion.
I would be relieved to know that is the case.
However, given the avalanche of lies coming from Republicans, how exactly are we supposed to figure out which ones have validity and which do not? Seems like better odds to assume they are all lies, based on the historical evidence.
A real easy fix is to not accuse the individual without proof. A difficult concept for the left. To be sure.
Proof? That's funny. I didn't know you were a comedian.
Meanwhile, Trump's minions investigate Hugo Chavez's involvement in voting machine fraud while holding maskless parties.
Proof? Facts? That's something Republicans care about? Could have fooled me.
I was simply referring to your unfounded accusations against me, the individual. Bullying lies against the individual seem to be a phenomena of the left, not the right.
Wrong about that LTL (your last sentence). I have been attacked on this and other websites by Trump supporters when the subject wasn't even political. I recently deleted a nonpolitical answer I made to a question on Quora because I was attacked by a Trump Troll.
I will concede that it does happen both ways on this forum. But, the leftist phenomena extends well past momentary irritations caused by a single individual in an online exchange to the point of coordinated attempts to ruin the lives of those who disagree.
Ruin lives? Unfounded accusations? Where, snowflake?
You support Republicans and Trump, correct?
Was the election rigged? Was there massive fraud? Was Sandy Hook fake. Is COVID fake? Do masks work? Is the vaccine going to put microchips in our brains? Was Obama born in this country?
I'm using hyperbole to make a point. Which of these things do you believe? How am I supposed to tell when a Republican is telling the truth and when they aren't?
If you support Trump and what he's doing then, well, then that's some fascist-level stuff.
You are always maligning the left. I guess you don't like it when the same is done to you.
You keep regurgitating the same thing. Over and Over. I can't clean up puke. It makes me sick. Please ask someone else.
This makes you sick but all these Republican conspiracy theories and Trump's fascist behavior make you proud? The irony is almost hard to believe.
I keep regurgitating? That's how I view this Republican voter fraud scam, which you support. Even though there's no proof at all. Even though the conspiracy news networks have retracted their stories and admitted they were made up. But you still believe it.
The voter fraud thing is not different than the pizzeria story. The voting machines are owned by Hugo Chavez? George Soros? It was made up. These people are living in their own puke. Trump is peddling fascism.
I can only assume you have a strangely singular fascination with making things up and I have, somehow, become the subject of that weird desire to see things that do not exist.
Please direct this bizarre behavior elsewhere.
Feel free to correct my mistaken belief that you support Trump. You've indicated that you support this fact-free accusation that there was massive fraud in the election. In my estimation, anyone who supports this further is anti-American and fascist.
For instance, you said this:
"But remember the left spent four years and massive amounts of taxpayer money looking for Russian Collison, only to find nothing but still believe in it."
This is a lie, repeated by the right over and over again. Here is the truth:
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sit … olume5.pdf
But you keep repeating the same lie. Thus, my comments on the various other lies we hear from the right: COVID hoax, mask hoax, Sandy Hook hoax; etc.
How can anyone know which lies you believe and which you don't. If you believe one, massive lie, you're likely to believe them all.
That is obvious! "Turn about is fair play." Never in their book.
I am only responsible for my own opinions and the opinions I support. That view you advocate explains the rampant bullying i am seeing from the left, the untenable insults it throws out and the unrealistic view of people who disagree on any tiny issue.
You can blame me for everything, doesn't make it my fault or responsibility.
It also explains the lock step, seemingly unthinking, behavior of the left.
ROTFLMFAO...Again! ... two threads in a row...
I think you may be somewhat disappointed if you expect "journalism" to revive itself to the days-of-old standards of many decades ago.
What we have now trends more towards propaganda and programming of the populace, don't expect that to change any.
As for bipartisan efforts... that will not be necessary so long as the Democrats have the majority. This allows for people to continue to believe there is a difference between the two parties in DC.
The media isn't interested in telling the truth most of the time because there's no money in it for them. They tend to lean towards stories that generate headlines, and let's be honest. For all of Trump's faults, he was pretty much a walking bullseye for the media to target all the time. Whereas if they had come down just hard if not harder on Biden, you wouldn't get the same type of buzz for their ratings, which is all the media really cares about, so they really have no incentive to do what you're suggesting unfortunately.
Okay, I will say it since nobody else has the courage to: The very fact that he and his minions are advocating this is sedition.
Republicans loyal to the party say there was no fraud as Trump claims. Even Attorney General Bill Barr says so. To try stir the people up into supporting his use of martial law falls under sedition.
https://legalbeagle.com/8410749-differe … eason.html
For Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act to stay in office would be an act of treason:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/1 … ncy-447986
How much longer do we have to put up with this crap? Hopefully after January 20, we won't hear anymore about it, but I doubt it.
This is extremely sad and embarrassing. How much of a loser do you have to be to go through all of this dishonesty and lies because you can't accept defeat. Lifetime is a CLEAR representation of how far some races of people are willing to go. I mean you really lose your damn mind because you lost. Really?
This is sad and disgusting. To try to eliminate the black and latino vote, take our rights away because we don't agree with a cult leader who wants to be a dictator.
Hello, Trump cult members, the money your donating to a billionaire is going in his and his kids pockets. What kind of sense does it make to send a billionaire money, stupid sense. A lot of you Trump cult members are brainwashed and you know y'all need another stimulus check or business bailout.
Cyberatrack, Covid 19, a new strain of covid-19 that has caused most countries to temporarily halt travel to the UK, except for the US. Where is your cult leader who's supposed to be protecting you and America?
Holy Cow! I can't remember the last time I saw such blatant hogwash.
Come on Crankolicious, is that really a statement you want to own? "White geriatric paranoia"?
Can you even begin to understand how that reflects on your thought processes? "White geriatric paranoia." Wow, I am really glad I am not part of your world-view.
I am reminded of past conversations with Shralee about pedestals, but in the context of your comment, it would be more accurate to speak of edicts from the Mount.
"White geriatric paranoia" ya gotta be kidding. . . .
Hmm . . . I guess I missed the humor. I even went back for another look and still missed it. I just thought it was insulting. Oh well, it won't be the first time I have been wrong.
Well....It probably was insulting, but I doubt he seriously thinks that sums up a bunch of people. Some humor is funny because it touches upon truths. "White, geriatric paranoia" made me chuckle because I know people who perfectly fit that image, but it's just one facet of their personality..
Yes, yes, and you most certainly are one such sufferer of it!
Look, just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they aren't really out to get me. It isn't really paranoia it's simply true. The old lady down the street actually has microwave dishes pointed at my house. What's up with that? She's supposed to be on SS. She can't afford that kind of high-tech gear.
Plus, every time a take a call outside of the house I can hear clicks and buzzes that I don't hear anywhere else.
In the humbug spirit of the day, I offer this link, to a review of a book I suggest you (and anyone interested in understanding what will heavily influence the direction the US goes in next few years and why) peruse when you have a chance.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/ … ping-world
Now I know I have been banging on that dreary drum of China's looming dominance and control. So you might not be to keen on even clicking on that link, so I offer some food for thought as well:
I am sure you have heard of the Hunter Biden investment firm that received a nice 1.5 Billion dollar deposit from a government controlled Chinese Bank.
But did you also know that Goldman Sachs has strong ties to the CCP, and is also the most heavily invested Financial Firm into the Federal Government (from Lobbyists to Cabinet Positions).
People like former CEO Hank Paulson, who became Treasury Secretary under George Bush, he traveled to China more than 70 times as CEO, and had helped raise tens of billions of dollars for investment into China.
Then there is current Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, also a former Goldman Sachs executive, who also has a history working negotiations in Beijing.
Trump didn't want to go along, with the Establishment Elite, with the Wall St insiders that have controlled DC for decades, he wanted to antagonize China, put America first, but that... whether he was fully comprehending of this or not... set him against not just China and the political body in DC but Wall St. as well.
In China the Party controls the Corporations & Financial Firms....
In America the Corporations & Financial Firms control DC politics....
Those American Corporations and Financial Firms have long been in bed with China...
And that is who controls the Federal Government today.
It's called capitalism, Ken. Heard of it? People want money and are driven by money. There's so much money to be made in China and from China that nothing is going to stop that relationship.
I agree with you 100% on China though.
Thanks for that book link. Just put it on reserve at my local library.
Ooh, must have hit a nerve.
Interesting that all these claims of voter fraud are directed toward districts with large black populations.
Interesting that Republicans are constantly trying to disenfranchise black voters and make it harder for minority voters to vote.
Interesting that Trump plays up the fear of immigrants and non-whites and that his popularity stems, in part, from his accusation that Obama was not born in the United States.
It may be interesting, but it is also irrelevant. What is much more interesting is that some are attempting to turn it into a race thing when the entire thrust is about voter fraud and states refusal to follow the law. Unless you're claiming that the black race is predisposed towards illegal activities and thus get caught in the net more often?
Do explain why these factless claims of voter fraud are all directed at districts with large black populations then. Why do Republicans constantly try to make it harder for certain types of people to vote?
And this so-called states refusal to follow the law has been shot down by the courts. Also more stuff that is not factual. The phrase "states refusal to follow the law" has not been supported by any court and is therefore not truthful.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/us/s … -vote.html
So, we have about 60 legal losses. How many does it take for people to admit there was no fraud? 100? 1000?
Probably could be 1,000,000 failures and Trump supporters would still claim fraud.
And now the Sedition Party has moved from legal challenges to illegal ones, willing to wipe their asses with the Constitution and throwing out the very basis for our country. So much for "law and order". More like "lawlessness and chaos".
Because black people tend to congregate in large cities rather than rural areas, at least outside the south? I know you are aware of that - why didn't you answer your own question?
Not a single state act, against state laws, has been "shot down" by courts, for not a single one has examined the issue.
So far you have not a single "loss" from Trumps legal team, for not a single case has been heard. Or even considered by the courts. Again, you know this, so why do you keep repeating they have all be shot down? Because the time issue (such as the SCOTUS used) is, somehow, equivalent in your mind of examination of evidence?
Because, Wilderness, when a court complaint is filed, evidence has to be presented that the case merits being heard by the court. No evidence has been presented that the plaintiff in any of these cases deserves to be heard, and in at least one, the Texas case, Texas had no standing to file a claim against other states election laws.
It doesn't seem to matter how many times this simple explanation is given. Certain people are determined to ignore it. Or, are they simply unable to understand it?
While this doesn't even address the question of why only "black" areas are being challenged, it does make a very good point. That point being that courts are NOT hearing any evidence; just like SCOTUS the evidence is being thrown out for procedural reasons, not for lack of merit. The merit is not even being considered - only whether every "t" is crossed and every "i" dotted in the court filings.
What? You think the black population is not higher in metropolitan areas than in rural areas (outside the south)?
Or do you think SCOTUS carefully examined the evidence before concluding that it was too late to file anything?
Either way, I doubt it - you are smarter than that.
Blacks comprise 19% of Minneapolis, but 6% of Minnesota.
Blacks comprise 42% of Philadelphia, but 11% of Pennsylvania.
Blacks comprise 52% of Atlanta, but 31% of Georgia.
Seems that blacks tend to congregate in the cities...cities being claimed to have voter fraud. No racism here - just simple demographic facts.
So says Trump supporters who are trying to overthrow our Constitution. Each filing MUST HAVE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE INCLUDED to have merit for any other evidence to be heard. Not just these cases, but any case brought before the court. This evidence is not being included or is not real evidence but only hearsay.The average Trump supporter does not understand this.
How can we tell (if supporting evidence was sufficient)? When SCOTUS, and other courts, are throwing them out for procedural reasons like "not filed on a timely basis" or "plaintiff is without standing", how can you know there was insufficient merit?
The average liberal apparently does not understand the difference, but the rest of us do - there is a vast canyon of difference between "without merit" and "not filed in time".
Your statement that "The average liberal apparently does not understand the difference, but the rest of us do...." is entirely ambiguous and without merit in itself. Who are "the rest of us" [who claim to know the difference], and what is the relevance here? Conservatives, general public, white people, Trump supporters...see what I mean. "Not filed on time" means that there is a deadline and the filer did not meet it. These cases deemed by the court to be without merit were based on hearsay, and the filer did not submit anything that could be argued. The courts do not argue hearsay. Even the Trump appointees to SCOTUS and the Attorney General have agreed on that. Are you saying that they are wrong and Trump supporters are right? What difference are you talking about? Neither is acceptable to the court, any court.
It's hopeless. I'm just counting the days until Biden is sworn in as president and that nasty man is irrelevant to sane Americans. I look forward to never again seeing his face, hearing his voice, or reading about his hateful tweets.
Oh, it won't end. It will be claimed for years to come that anything disliked was caused by Trump. Just as it is now being claimed that Trump is directly responsible for every COVID death to date. TDS sufferers know no bounds with their lies and there is no indication they will stop.
The statement was made in direct response to your own: "The average Trump supporter does not understand this."
Both statements are ridiculous on the face of it, and patently untrue...but I figured if you can make silly statements I should do the same. Was I wrong?
I stated that SCOTUS denied to hear the case based on the time element, while others continue to insist it was because there was no merit to the case. Similarly, cases have been thrown out for various other reasons...while the anti-Trump insist is was for lack of evidence.
I have asked for court documents indicating that lack of merit, for cases filed by Trump's legal team. To date not a single link has been provided - just unsupported claims it was for lack of merit, most often filed by someone rather than Trump and his legal team. Can you do better?
Lawsuit thrown out for "hearsay". This article includes an explanation of why:
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/c … -evidence/
One piece of Trump's evidence was hearsay evidence written on a sticky note that could not be proved:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/trumps … ter-fraud/
Trump claims that the court wouldn't look at evidence presented by his lawyers Texas filed against other states. That would be true even if they had evidence because of states' rights. The court told Texas that what happens in other states is "none of your business." [Lack of Standing]
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame … 793f0f6ab3
Shall I go on, or are three sources enough? I figure I'm wasting my time anyway.
MizBejabbers, you should not waste your time. Trump supporters have no interest in facts.
Ain't that the truth. Why should we have to prove anything anyway; they don't ever quote sources for their crazy beliefs. Besides, I don't think that after his followers broke into the Capitol today and terrorized the Congress, he's gonna be invoking anything.
If I accuse you of child molestation in public, should we hear the case just because I assert that my accusation is true? Of course not. I have to present evidence and if I don't present evidence, the case is thrown out.
This is precisely what happened in these voting fraud cases.
It's not for you to tell whether the evidence was believable. That's why we have judges. You can't just say that a post-it note proves that there was fraud. We don't let the public ejudicate.
Really, try to imagine somebody accused you of something you didn't do. According to your own words, they should be able to present this in court no matter how outlandish the accusation. They should be able to stand in front of your house yelling about how you molested their child or murdered their aunt without having any evidence to support the accusation. And worse, if that happened, we should believe them.
In Michigan, for example, they didn't question the vote counts in white counties. They specifically went after the counties with large black populations. Why are none of these challenges directed at counties with large, white populations?
That is a long list of "interesting" points for you to consider. How does that list relate to your quote in my comment?
ROTFLMAO... wow... we got some good comments today!
Crankalicous, I am a geriatric white person, and also a Southerner. (Not everyone is willing to recognize my Native American genetics like they refused Elizabeth Warren.) Not all of us are against Blacks and Hispanics voting. I have been called "liberal" although I'm really more of a centrist. Three Hispanics married into my family. Only their names and the fact that they can speak Spanish gives them away. I can't speak Spanish, as much as I've tried to learn it. I am very proud of my hispanic grandchildren and nephew. In fact, my nephew's father's family has owned their ranch near Santa Fe since they received it from the Mexican government who owned the land at the time. My granddaughter's in-laws are immigrants from Central America, and her father-in-law is a minister at a bi-lingual church in Texas (They are protestants.) They are now U.S. citizens, and her husband was born a citizen in this country. I believe they deserve the right to vote the same as you and I. I think you are being unfair to lump all white people into an undesirable ilk just the same as the Trump supporting racists do nonwhites. "White, geriatric paranoia" is a racist statement. Some people call it reverse racism, but racism is racism to me.
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