What Should We Do About This Guy?
Here's a pastor in Louisiana, a state really struggling with this outbreak, actively encouraging people to gather in large groups. He doesn't believe the virus is real.
Detain him?
Jail him?
Hold him personally accountable for anyone who contracts Coronavirus and dies?Crank, he can encourage, but cannot mandate. People are not sheep and should be able to think for themselves. Unless there is mandatory quarantine in force the guy has broken no law.
But there is a new attitude in fashion now, The Rightwing press outlets are feeding it to their lemming like followers.
Falwell Jr., head of Liberty University in Virginia has instructed all of his students to return to classes as normal, irresponsible guidance in the face of a virulent virus that is so easily transmitted.
Then there is the Soylent Green polka. This Lt Govenor in Texas is encouraging those over 70 to become sacrificial lambs or to self annihilate to preserve this "great economy" for their grandkids. So, it is now profits over life? We willingly put our seniors at risk for the sake of another's 401k or for the sake of having Walmart return to its regular business hours?
This is an underlying strain of Trumpism. Trump has ALWAYS been more concerned about the possibility of a pi$$ poor economy as a result of the pandemic over preserving life as that has the greater potential of denying him a second term. His ego cannot abide with the prospect of joining the ranks of "one term" presidents. Trump is desperate and will issue an Executive Order banishing the virus by Easter so that we can all go back to work.
Sorry to have digressed a little from your topic.Earlier in March, Lousiana Governor John Bel Edwards issued an emergency order barring gatherings of larger than 50 people to stop the spread of Covid-19.
On Tuesday night (March 17), just before the police arrived, Pastor Tony Spell stood in the pulpit of his Louisiana church and delivered a message to hundreds of worshipers before him and fellow believers around the world.
"Keep going to church! Keep on worshiping God! ... The church is a hospital for the sick! It's a place of healing for the brokenhearted!"
He held services again on Sunday, and he plans to do so yet again on Tuesday night.
On Sunday, Pastor Tony Spell said, his Life Tabernacle Church in Baton Rouge drew about 1,000 people to its services, in part by busing people in from across five parishes.
"I feel the Covid-19 scare is politically motivated," Spell told CNN.
"The Bible tells us to lay hands on the sick and they shall recover and will continue to do that without the fear of the spread of any virus," Spell said.Btw, this last Sunday he had plans to bus in more than 600 children from a 60-mile radius for its free meals and Sunday school. I just hope they didn't. He should be in jail.
As for that silly church and others like it, reminds me a lot of Jonestown, 1978.
The Farce always has a profound effect upon the feeble minded. You can expect the Rightwing media to continue pushing this kind of thinking.
People are REALLY dying, who is stupid enough to talk about political motivation?
Trump and his rich buddies would rather have people die over their losing money....Cred, the sad irony here is that only his supporters listen to Trump. We certainly don't. And his supporters are going to pay a steep price for doing so. They're going to die because of it.
Let's just hope they don't spread the virus to the rest of us.
How about that guy in Arizona who used the malaria drug to self-medicate and died? How about the Pastor, clearly following Trump's insinuations and exposing all his followers?
I'm using this analogy now: Trump is standing on Fifth Avenue shooting his supporters and they continue to support him.Yeah, Crank, that was the miracle drug, that magic bullet that Trump said would fix all that ails you? It is not hard to see why Fauci and Trump are not getting along. A true experienced medical professional is getting tired of Trump's misleading and erroneous "happy talk"
The mark of a tyrant is promoting a blind obedience in others oblivious of the facts and reality.
I can't fix stupid, and like you say, I hope that wiser people do not become collateral damage.Have you looked into Crankalicious' claim about that "Magic Drug" that caused a death being laid at Trump's feet?
Fearing coronavirus, Arizona man dies after taking a form of chloroquine used to treat aquariums
"(CNN)A Phoenix-area man is dead and his wife is under critical care after the two took chloroquine phosphate in an apparent attempt to self-medicate for the novel coronavirus, according to hospital system Banner Health.
It does not appear they took the pharmaceutical version of the drug, but rather "an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks," Banner Health said in a statement."
But it's Pres. Trump's fault for mentioning the pharmaceutical drug, right?
The Guardian
"Trump called the drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine potential “gamechangers” during a press conference last week, spurring a rush by some individuals – and even countries, including Algeria and Indonesia – to stockpile the drugs. India, meanwhile, has announced it will ban export of the drug.
While New York state has ordered 70,000 doses for an approved clinical trial in combination with another drug"
Do you suppose Pres. Trump just pulled that drug as an option out of thin air, or could it have been something he heard from one of his medical advisors? Would you think he knew all about that drug without some medical advisor telling him about it?
However, I think you did get the "can't fix stupid" part right.
GA"Would you think he knew all about that drug without some medical advisor telling him about it?"
Of course not, he doesn't know anything about the virus and is going on his "hunches" and "good feelings" rather than advice from Dr. Fauci. What do you expect, Gus?You have made your point and I stand corrected, in this instance.
GA,
Trump said that drug had FDA approval, so he went a bit further than simply mentioning it as being a possible anecdotal solution.I saw the news conference. It was stated that use for corona virus would be off label use, without more testing. Which happens with a lot of drugs already approved by the FDA.
As to the ignoramus who used fish tank cleaner because he figured it was the same as a malarial drug....you must be so biased you choose not to think on this one. Cities use chlorinated water. By your reasoning if I drank chlorine bleach the city would be responsible for my death.
You can't fight stupid. Don't join their ranks by presenting a completely ignorant act by an individual as anyone's fault other than the person who, of their own accord, decided their brain was not there for a very important purpose.Trump said it had received FDA approval, which it had not.
It is not his fault some idiot took something completely different, but the more falsehoods you spread to the adoring masses, the less likely they are to know or care what the truth actually is. Does anyone actually not understand this point or are we approving of the Darwinian nature of the outcomes? If so, a lot of Trump supporters are going to die.?? hydroxychloroquine has been used for some time in the treatment of malaria and mild lupus symptoms. Are you saying doctors have long been prescribing the drug without FDA approval?
Or is your statement an even bigger lie than Trump's, for you know it has FDA approval? (Trump did not, that I've seen, ever claim it is approved for Covid-19.)He said it had FDA approval for the treatment of COVID-19.
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/politi … id-19-drug
What is so hard to admit about this lie? Here's a short list of a few of his lies on Coronavirus:
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/347 … oronavirus
I saw the press conference. It was not unclear that the drug was FDA approved but not for this use.
Correct. After Trump said the opposite and a health official had to walk back the statement. Thank God for our knowledgable health officials.
That's why he has them there. You obviously simply want to find fault.
Why doesn't he listen to them then instead of muddying the water? Why do the pros have to step in and clean up his statements so often?
FDA approval for what? I understand that it is an approved drug for some things—like Lupas.
Unless he said it had FDA approval for coronavirus treatment he was right.
GAThat's what he said - it had been approved to treat Coronavirus.
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/politi … id-19-drug"Earlier in the week, Trump said hydroxychloroquine was among the drugs being tested for treating coronavirus, but his FDA chief said it’s too soon to say when."
Got an actual sound bite, not just a report from a site denigrating the president, that shows him saying that it is FDA approved to treat Covid19? I easily find where he thinks it will work, and says so, but I fall way short finding where he actually says it is approved for the virus.Another link:
https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoy … 2ef2b0303d
This link doesn't say the same thing, but perhaps stresses even more how the President's words change things:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-clai … 1584981897
Here's where he actually says it was approved (at 1:29)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9NbaXHdfGc
As I listen to him, I actually thinks he understands the issue, but simply cannot stop himself from talking off-script and saying things that are not true.
And I didn't at all see the site denigrating the President. How do you report on wrong information without, by definition, denigrating somebody?
He went off script and started rambling.
https://youtu.be/95eNDcugOYU?t=653
He claimed chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine had been around and approved many years ago and could be used due to his "Right To Choose" Bill to save lives. One could nitpick words. I prefer to realize many are getting the drugs, and it appears to be helping many recovering from the virus. One way or the other, Trump did well with his Right To Choose Bill. He has done so many great things while in office. Sad that you either just don't know about them or just choose to ignore anything positive.
Nitpick words? He said it was approved for use by the FDA for use against COVID 19 and I provided the actual clip to prove it and you're still saying he didn't say it.
Actually I have not located that statement. Perhaps you could provide where you got your information? I will look for the clip, I could have missed it. At any rate, as I pointed out I am so pleased Trump pushed his bill through that gives one the right to choose. This at best gives anyone that chooses to use chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. I am pleased to have a president that works for all the people.
I did locate your clip. I see the president did make that statement. I found your link. I also did just a bit of research on Trump promoting the FDA to do immediate studies on the drugs. At any rate, he was correct anyone that chooses to take the drug will be able to due to his "The Right To Choose" Bill.
"However, the FDA does say that studies are underway to see if chloroquine can be effective in the treatment of Covid-19. It also says it has been directed by Mr Trump to set up a large clinical trial to investigate the drug.
Mr Trump later said chloroquine had been approved for "compassionate use". This is where a doctor can give a drug that is yet to be cleared by the government to a patient in a life threatening condition. Doctors are able to prescribe chloroquine in these circumstances, as it's a registered drug.
He has subsequently announced that New York state would be starting a trial combining both the anti-malarial and an antibiotic known as Zithromax for treatment for Covid-19 patients."
https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731
"There are no US Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved drugs specifically for the treatment of patients with COVID-19. At present clinical management includes infection prevention and control measures and supportive care, including supplementary oxygen and mechanical ventilatory support when indicated. An array of drugs approved for other indications as well as several investigational drugs are being studied in several hundred clinical trials that are underway across the globe.
The purpose of this document is to provide information on two of the approved drugs (chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine) and one of the investigational agents (remdesivir) currently in use in the
United States."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc … tions.html
"Cred, the sad irony here is that only his supporters listen to Trump. We certainly don't. And his supporters are going to pay a steep price for doing so. They're going to die because of it."
I just thought your statement needs repeating.
"They're going to die because of it."
Yes, but fewer of all of us will die due to having a president that is doing his job and doing it well during a crisis.
How about those stats on H1N1. You know the virus that was miss-handled by Obama. I wonder how many that voted for him died? I wonder if this kind of thinking is illogical? Yeah... The blame game is ridiculous, and at this point not called for.
WOW! And I thought I had heard it all.Peace, Sharlee. If we don't blame Trump for everything possible, at every opportunity possible, we might have another 4 years of prosperity, of putting Americans first, of record employment, and a soaring market. This cannot be permitted, so...blame Trump for everything, while pretending there are no successes.
Wonderful sentiment. Although I really felt some would in light of all this President is doing to handle this virus would view as somewhat positive. Just due to the fact he is doing everything he can to bring us through a horrible crisis. His quick actions have saved many lives, and his financial patches will help keep the country afloat. It is obvious he could have just flown below the radar, and let this virus rip. As many presidents have done in past virus outbreaks. He set precedence. Those that are so concerned over his handling of the virus, sitting in their homes, should consider, it is Trump that has promoted all the percussions, and the reason they are sitting isolated from the virus. When they get their checks to tide them over, help make ends meet they can thank Trump for that too. But I and you know they will soon be blaming Trump for the two trillion he added to the National debt. Do you ever actually laugh out loud when you read some of these hypicridacl comments? It seems like some in our societies though processes have been deadened to the concept of common sense.
His quick actions have saved many lives, and his financial patches will help keep the country afloat?
Instead of saying stuff like this, can you just provide the link to Fox News?"It seems like some in our societies though processes have been deadened to the concept of common sense."
This goes for the Trump enablers more than anyone else, Shar. I assume you meant "thought" instead of "though."Unfortunately, it is not the Trump supporters showing a lack of commonsense in this situation. My comment should give a good indication of my reasoning.
Were the Arizona couple using "common sense" when they drank the fish tank cleaner, Shar? Or do you think they listened to Trump because they voted for Hillary?
Wanta bet they were Trump supporters?Seriously? Do you ever have a sensible comment to add to the discussion?
I would say anyone that is dumb enough to swallow anything you buy at a pet shop to clean a tank is was not using common sense. Poor example.
You have to be blind to think Trump is handling this well. He's handling it better since he started taking it seriously. But sure, blame Obama!
Here's a short list of Trump's lies about Coronavirus:
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/347 … oronavirus
And here's a nice implication by Trump that he'll only help people in blue states if their governors are nice to him:
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/25/21193803/ … tors-cuomo
Interesting or not? Trump will let people die if the governors don't treat him well.I note you did not address my main comparison of how Obama did little to nothing to curb the spread as well as death toll when we experienced H1N1.
I would have to say, I now sit in my home under a form of lockdown. Businesses are closed, a vaccine and medication to treat the virus are being worked on. And Oh, Trump has provided some cash to those that need it to provide food while off work. And lots more. Obama did zip!
So don't tell Trump is handling this ci=risis poorly, even if mistakes are made... He is not hiding in the WH, doing zip!
He is working daily to make sure we are as safe as possible. One would think you might be giving credit where it is due. You seem to search put the negative no matter how small. You are clearly able to disregard the good that is being accomplished right before our very eyes. It makes me wonder if at this point in our society if some have developed an innate way of blocking out common sense. Have some developed the ability to only dwell on the negative, even when the positive outweigh the negative?
When we experience the H1N1 virus were you pleased with the way it was handled? Did you point out the fact little was done to curb the death toll or are you only upset about this new virus and the way it is being handled because you dislike Trump?I didn't address it because, as usually, your facts are straight from Fox News.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump … emic-spin/
H1N1 had a death rate of .02%, less than most seasonal flus. Why would there be a reaction to such an outbreak? Wouldn't resources be better spent, in that case, combatting seasonal flus?
And IslandBites has provided an entire forum with links for you to get your facts straight. Remember, math matters.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/347 … us-vs-h1n1
"Trump and his rich buddies would rather have people die over their losing money...."
Does this explain why Trump actually closed down just about our entire economy? Does this explain why he has closed our borders to China, Europe, UK, and Canada? Does this explain his asking Congress to pass three bills to help the Country financially?
Maye time to look at facts. The fact is Trump has done a shi- a load of problem-solving, and factually he will add trillions to the debt to make sure we are as safe, to decrease the spread as well as death from this virus. He is doing all he can to help citizens financially to get through this crisis.
Your statement in the face of the facts is ridiculous.Straight from Fox News, as always.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump … emic-spin/
A flu with a lower death rate (.02%) than most seasonal flus would not be cause for any reaction. You are comparing apples and oranges.I posted the very information in your link days ago. Obama did nothing. It all added up to nothing. Nothing but a huge death toll. HUGE! This virus will not touch the numbers.
"The (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from H1N1 viruses that were circulating at the time of the pandemic. Few young people had any existing immunity (as detected by antibody response) to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus, but nearly one-third of people over 60 years old had antibodies against this virus, likely from exposure to an older H1N1 virus earlier in their lives. Since the (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from circulating H1N1 viruses, vaccination with seasonal flu vaccines offered little cross-protection against (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection. While a monovalent (H1N1)pdm09 vaccine was produced, it was not available in large quantities until late November—after the peak of illness during the second wave had come and gone in the United States. From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus"
Covid19 as of today after three months USA 93,329 known infections.Death toll 1,384
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour … demic.html
Shirlee, did not mean to get you all in a tizzy.
But, first it is common knowledge that Trump mismanaged the handling of this crisis from the very beginning.
Why Talk about opening "everything" up on Easter as a direct contradiction to the advice of all the medical professionals, as Trump is not one.
And if there is one thing that I cannot stand are people that put their "hunches" and intuition ahead of facts, knowledge and experience. Trump is one of those kinds of people.
I credit Trump for finally recognizing the severity of this crisis. But, we have to give credit to the bipartisan efforts of Democrats and Republicans in Congress, as well.
But, as I told you before, Trump is highly motivated because his reelection chances may well depend on the economy not being on life support by November. Considering that he and the GOP want to cut all the programs that benefit working and middle class people to the bone, why else would he want to do anything for them now? But again, I told you this before so this is nothing new."Considering that he and the GOP want to cut all the programs that benefit working and middle class people to the bone..."
Are you referring to the myriad of programs specifically designed (successfully) to chain people to government charity rather than help them to be active, productive, participating citizens of the country?
If so, you've answered you own question.I am waiting for you to address Obama's handling of H1N1. You have lot's of time due to Trump taking all precautions to decrease the infection rate as well as the death toll. Stats can be so bothersome.
You have take trump's statements as far out of context as you could possibly do. I need not defend Trump, he needs no defending to anyone that has a logical mind. He is doing a great job.
Not in a tizzy. That should be you. All the things you have listed are pure out rediculous.
Trump and his rich buddies would rather have people die over their losing money...
"Trump and his rich buddies would rather have people die over their losing money...."
Does this explain why Trump actually closed down just about our entire economy? Does this explain why he has closed our borders to China, Europe, UK, and Canada? Does this explain his asking Congress to pass three bills to help the Country financially?
Maye time to look at facts. The fact is Trump has done a shi- a load of problem-solving, and factually he will add trillions to the debt to make sure we are as safe, to decrease the spread as well as death from this virus. He is doing all he can to help citizens financially to get through this crisis.
Your statement in the face of the facts is ridiculous.
I see you have given up on your original question. "What Should We Do About This Guy?" LOL
Guess changing the subject should help some not to see your question. Did you come up with a punishment?Here's the link again that disproves what you are saying:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump … emic-spin/
You just keep spewing the same Fox News garbage.
"Contrary to Trump’s suggestion that the Obama administration did “nothing,” officials declared a public health emergency early in the H1N1 outbreak, secured funding from Congress and ultimately declared a national emergency..."
Are you saying Obama should have closed down the borders like Trump and you're holding it against him that he didn't?
"On top of that, the CDC sequenced the new virus, created testing kits, and the Food and Drug Administration approved multiple vaccines, among other actions.
Rep. Michael Burgess, a Republican from Texas, praised the CDC at a House hearing in 2016 for quickly developing a vaccine for the swine flu in about six months — in time for the start of the school year in September 2009. “So that’s a 6-month time frame if I’m doing my math correctly that you were able to identify the genetic sequence of the virus, reverse engineer a vaccine, test it, assure its safety and efficacy, and get it to school teachers on the second week of school. That’s pretty impressive,” he said.
Trump said in a tweet that the Obama administration’s response to the 2009 H1N1 pandemic “was a full scale disaster.” While he can have that opinion, there is little to support such a negative view."
As far as I can tell, you just read Trump's tweets and parrot whatever he says, then go find evidence to support your view.Did Obama change the rules on testing of vaccines? I see we have a vaccine in the testing process, but that it will now take a year to complete. How did they do it in less than six months just a few years ago?
Something sounds a little fishy here.
People are not sheep but Republicans are lemmings?
The left is so drunk on the koolaid of liberal hate I fear they are addicted.From a legal standpoint people have the right to be "sheep" if they so choose. But again, that is from a LEGAL standpoint.
Just because I am not keen on conservatives or right-wingers, one should not imply hatred. But groups whose existence is based on extermination of ethnic groups and religions that they don't approve of, now there is your real hate with teeth and that is not coming from the left.
In a totalitarian state, he would be jailed and probably disappear without a trial. In our free society, we have the Constitution and the First Amendment. This pastor is compelling anyone. They have free will and they are adults and they can make up their own mind. If they choose to follow this guy, he has the right.
This is like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Does anyone have the right to do that?
I am not sure it is the same. In a crowded theater, we are trapped in a confined public space. This pastor is not forcing anyone to join his church. It is their choice.
This is not about joining. This is about congregating against all available recommendations. He is willingly and knowingly endangering people and threatening to spread the virus far and wide. He even went out of his way to bus people in.
Will he be responsible if people in his parish die of the virus?
Detain him for endangering public safety.
What about his Constitutional rights?
If you are willing to go down this road, can thought crimes be far behind?Jack this is a war. It has an as of yet undetermined ending point. The main problem is that there are too many unknown factors right now.
I'll ask you the same the guy asked Trump and I don't think your stand is being misunderstood or taken out of context here. How many deaths are acceptable? Because this behavior is the same as directing tourist traffic into a burning building without full knowledge of where the exits are.Yes it is a war. On so many levels. A war against a new strain of virus. Which we will win in due time. Do you have any doubt? We will win when scientists develop a vaccine...
This has played out in our recent past. In 2009-2010 season, the H1N1 pandemic has 60 million Americans contracted that disease, and ended with 12,000 deaths.
Once a vaccine was developed the crisis ended.The other war is between never Trumpers and Trump supporters. It is unprecedented that in a global pandemic crisis, politics trump common sense. You have people who criticize Trump for every mishap and never give him any credit.
just an example - you have the media focusing on the term "chinese virus" rather than the virus itself. Why you ask? on several news conferences, I have seen this. After Trump gave an explanation why he used that term, the media just ignore the answer and bring it up again and again...
Jack, I sincerely hope some dumb racist doesn't try to punch you in the face because he blames you for the virus because there's absolutely no reason to enflame such people right now.
Could you provide some proof of these allegations? You have not even provided a name for this Pastor.
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/loui … -outbreak/
Here you go, Shar.Thanks, Randy! I think I meant to post a link.
That would have been the prudent thing to do. However, I am so pleased to see the thread has progressed into yet another Trump-bashing frenzy.
I so enjoy, get a laugh, not to mention a feeling wonder reading the comments on these threads. Thank you for not disappointing.Well, then address the question of the forum. What should we do with this pastor?
I will just say, I didn't intend this forum to start another Trump debate and the OP had nothing about Trump.
Thank you, Randy. Although I can see we have well moved on passed the original subject.
But, not sure I have the right to decide "What should we do about this guy?" I would think him very irresponsible, and perhaps the Governor could remind him of all the precautions that have been initiated.
We have no laws at this point to punish him. Hopefully, he will heed and abide by the Governors orders in regards to the virus. If he won't it would be up to the Governor to initiate some form of penalty for not following his orders.How many of his flock along with others might this pastor have killed? What if people end up dying because it was spread by his parishioners?
Honestly, given the number of people not taking this thing seriously, I'm sure it would be hard to tell where anyone caught it.
Isn't it like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater?
He should be thrown into an Oubliette. That'll take care of him.
That was sneaky. I had to look it up. ;-)
GAHow about nailing him to a cross? Now that would perhaps give some from satisfaction to those that want some form of punishment. Then, they can turn around and blame Trump for making them even have to be judge, jury, and prosecutor. All in the name of -- It just needed to be done for the good of all... LOL
The pastor of a church in Central, La. will be charged with six misdemeanor counts of disobeying the powers of the governor, prosecutors said Tuesday.
On Tuesday, March 31, Chief Roger Corcoran with Central Police Department issued Mark Anthony Spell, (Aka: Tony Spell), Pastor of Life Tabernacle Church in Central, a Misdemeanor Summons for six counts of violating the governor’s executive order (LA R.S. 29:724E) following his decision to host multiple large gatherings.
“Over the last two weeks I have worked with the Sheriff, State Police the State Fire Marshal, Reverend Tony Perkins and others to address this matter outside of legal action. Mr. Spell made his intentions to continue to violate the law clear,” he said in a statement. "Instead of showing the strength and resilience of our community during this difficult time, Mr. Spell has chosen to embarrass us for his own self-promotion.
"Mr. Spell will have his day in court where he will be held responsible for his reckless and irresponsible decisions that endangered the health of his congregation and our community.
“This is not an issue over religious liberty, and it’s not about politics. We are facing a public health crisis and expect our community’s leaders to set a positive example and follow the law.”
Good!By the time it goes to court, we will know if any of his parishioners got the disease and if any died of it.
If they did, could he be charged with manslaughter or even murder? We can hope.Reminds me of the old snake-handling churches once in this area. There may still be a few left but they've gone underground these days.
Wrote a semi-factual account of visiting one long ago.
Double good!
But we still have the problem that 500 folks listened to him.
GA
Let them have their gathering, and once everyone's inside, lock the doors. Natural Selection will take care of the rest.
"Trump and his rich buddies would rather have people die over their losing money...."
"The Farce always has a profound effect upon the feeble minded."
Wow, from talking about a single preacher . . . to this.
The air is a little thin up there, isn't it?
GAYes, GA, the air may be thin up here but it still quite breathable. Take a look at the BIG picture, between comments and actions of Falwell, Glenn Beck, and the Lt. Governor of Texas, it is easy to see the trend and where it is leading. Trump wants to resuscitate the economy at ANY cost. Knowing him, it is just to save his own financial fortunes and the country be damned.
The virus was created by the Democrats and its effects are being overblown by them according to the Right. Meanwhile, there are cadavers piling up that indicate otherwise.It's amazing that there are people out there that actually think a failed economy would not produce a death toll higher than anything Corona might do. Understanding that most left wingers don't think a robust economy is necessary to provide health care (can always soak the "rich" for hospital funds), it still amazes me.
I've heard that our major cities are just 3 days from food riots if deliveries stop...deliveries that depend on trucks, mechanics, roads, fuel and all the other things a strong economy produces. And people still think it's OK if the economy dies, that people will not die with it.What happened to "people should be prepared for such things"?
Anyway, I do think the question of the economy is a valid one. If people lose their jobs and their savings and can't make the money they need to buy food, we're going to see rioting.
Is the greater good 9 million dead to save the economy or some other answer to save some large number of people from dying?
It's really a shame this thing wasn't taken more seriously at the beginning, but we're really seeing - as this forum indicates - how no matter what you do, some people simply won't listen and they put us all at great risk.--
But, while you try to support the lastest version of Trumpthink, what is your solution? I, mean really?
As someone over 70, how quick are you willing to offer yourself on the altar of sacrifice to promote the fortunes of the chosen few?
Life before money. So, because Trumps says, it is now his money or your life, that is now the gospel?
Are we really facing a Mad Max paradyme? I am not resigned to go to this point yet, are you?Credence, you need not to worry. Trump has been in office over 3 years.
He has not taken yours or my rights away in the least. So stop with the fear mongering and conspiracy theory...
Trump is doing what Presidents do in a crisis.
He is stepping up and being Presidentiql.
If he succeeds, we all benefit and he will be reelected. If he fails to live up to your expectations, you have a choice to vote for the other guy.I never talked about taking away rights, nor fearmongering. Your saying that, not me.
Well, Jack, I hope you're happy because if Trump has his way, you're among the most vulnerable and likely to suffer because of it.
What way is that? Kill off anyone on Social Security? I'd expect that from the TDS crowd - have you joined them now?
Trump's campaign of misinformation is going to kill older people mostly. But hey, if you're okay with it, that's all that matters.
TDS - is that Truth Derangement Syndrome?
What do you mean? I am perfectly safe, no safer or less than any other American.
Many of your fellow citizens, filled with Trump's misinformation, choosing not to believe the virus is serious due to Fox News, not practicing social distancing, will put you at higher risk to contract the disease.
With the exception of a zealot, or two, where do you get the idea that the Right thinks Democrats created the virus?
I will stick with the inference of my first reply, you have slipped over the edge.
GAYou can go ahead and split hairs into micron size pieces, GA
Trump blames the catastrophe associated with our relative unpreparedness on Obama. Trump supporters are the only base group that choose to ignore the virus and its medically proven dangers and are blatant about it, except for the teenage beach party crowd, of course. Who is downplaying the magnitude of the pandemic, is it the left? Why do you think that is?
So, I stand my ground on my original interpretation.It seems to me that the MSM has taken this virus seriously and generally put forth the advice of the medical community.
If you look at Fox News, they are downplaying the virus. Some on Fox News have called it fake.
Is it unreasonable to extrapolate from that that a large number of people who are out partying, filling the beaches; etc. might watch Fox News? Is it also not unreasonable to assume that people are taking Trump at his word (along with the Lt. Gov. of Texas) and getting back to work and/or assuming this will all be over by April 15?Well, Crank when you use the information provided by the preponderance of medical professionals as a constant it is easy to see from where the sources of misinformation are coming.
Most of the people that are partying are oblivious to the virus and the warnings are kids who are in a state of abandon and resent having their lifestyles and plans upset by current events, (old people's problems) and their reactions I don't believe have anything to do with "politics" or Fox News.
The others, a different group are defiant. They do believe that the virus and its effects have a political dimension and are overblown by liberals. They say that it is being stirred up by liberals to hurt Donald Trump, whom they would lay down their lives for.
They are going to ignore warnings, hide behind religious dogma, encourage a drive forward on the economy regardless of the ongoing danger of the pandemic. For most of them, it is not a matter of it "being over", more than a matter of disbelief that it had ever started.
Of course you do. Does the same also apply for Progressives? Is AOC representative of the Left?
If you can pick a public voice of a zealot or an idiot and claim that is the voice of the Right, can I do the same for the Left? And, be as right as you think you are?
Speaking of that idiot preacher, how do you compare his actions to those of the multitude of churches that have canceled group services? 1 against 1000 and you choose the one to define the 1000.
Also, why do you offer the young beachgoers as an exception, aren't they mostly Democrat voters? Aren't they the future of the party?
GAWell, we are kicking them out of the club!
Also, this forum is just about this one preacher and people like him. Beach goers too. Most people are taking this seriously, though watchers of Fox News less so.
Also shocked, GA, that you don’t see a difference here between the pastor and the beach goers. The beach goers are operating independently, all making the same, stupid decision.
The pastor is making a decision for thousands in his flock. Seems like Ken's term "sheeple" works here well. A pastor's words carry a lot of weight.Anything I've seen on fox is even tempered, lacks the fear mongering I find on CNN and appears to be taking this crisis seriously. Why would you think their viewers would do otherwise?
Perhaps it's because of stuff like this?
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/20/21186727/ … e-fox-newsI've never seen Hannity except in short you tube blurbs but, he is one pundit among many. Does he define Fox news?
If so, then I guess Don Lemon is CNN. Joe Scarborough is MSNBC.
Between the three none are credible or newsmen. They are all pundits. Are all MSNBC and CNN viewers to be condemned because of 2 schmucks?Don Lemon is a journalist, unlike Scarborough or Hannity. Most of the Fox News programs do not use real journalists as several have left because of the too Right slant they're forced to take.
You can see from the link I provided Fox News had to change its stance on the virus after their first opinions on the virus and now have to take it "seriously."
If you believed that the sun revolved around the earth, what would it take for my to convince you otherwise? How many links? Would you even look at them all since you would most likely be convinced already from your own research that the sun did indeed revolve around the earth because somebody you watch on some news channel or some podcast you listen to said so?
Likewise, how many video links to Fox News segments would convince you that they are generally downplaying or have generally downplayed the seriousness of the virus and have said outright or implied to their viewers that they should not take it seriously?
Links contain references, sourcing, and video you can watch:
https://www.gq.com/story/fox-news-coronavirus
https://www.washingtonpost.com
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav … sly-2020-3
If you need more links, let me know. Having shown all this, I'm very glad that Fox News has been taking this more seriously lately. Unfortunately, it might be too late to change behaviors.
Crankalicious, it seems you may have misunderstood my comment to Cred. I am certainly not defending that preacher or his actions. I think the descriptors of "zealot" and "idiot" should have made that clear.
The only similarity that I noted/inferred between the beachgoers and the preacher was that they are both idiots.
I think you may have been thrown off by my speaking to Credence2 of using the public voice of a zealot or idiot as the voice of a group—the Right in this case.
There are a lot of idiots among us, of all stripes and ideologies. To pick one, (or even a few), of them as representative of the norm of a group is a conscious mistake—and those are the worst kind.
GAI was just intending him to be one example of an idiot and wondering how people thought his idiocy should be handled. I never said he was an example of a larger group and didn’t intend that.
I understand you didn't intend to infer that. That was my discussion with Cred.
As for how his idiocy should be handled . . . that's a tough one for me. Wouldn't we also have to ask how to deal with the folks that followed him?
GAGA,
Do you believe he's committing a crime?
Look at Jack, basically saying this guy should be able to do whatever he wants and say whatever he wants. No matter how many people this guy gets infected and how many people die, his right to freedom of speech is more important than the lives of anyone who gets infected or dies.
What if somebody dies because of what he says? 10 people? A cluster of almost 2000 people could conceivably infect tens of thousands if not more, could conceivably kill thousands if not more.
There is definitely a kind of downside to punishing dangerous speech. Where is that line drawn? Who started the Tide pod challenge, for instance. Should they be charged with a crime? Should anyone who posts a video of themselves swallowing a Tide pod?
A pastor holds a unique sway over his flock. He's relaying God's word, isn't he?As much as logic would sometimes seem to demand it, you can't make stupid a crime.
Now, if stupid actions actually cause harm, then there are probably legal options. Until then . . . that's life.
GA
First, you did not even mention the Pastors' name. You literally asked, "What Should We Do About This Guy?" Which would indicate you wanted users to answer that question. You proceeded to make the assumption as to what the Pastor believed in regard to the seriousness of the virus. " He doesn't believe the virus is real."
You actually posted a list of what could be done to punish this Pastor.
"Detain him?
Jail him?
Hold him personally accountable for anyone who contracts Coronavirus and dies?"
You now seek to call him an "idiot".
Your thread as always leads the flock back to blaming Trump for anything and all thing vile... Your self-righteous indignation is so apparent and clearly obvious to me, and I hope others.
Here's a pastor in Louisiana, a state really struggling with this outbreak, actively encouraging people to gather in large groups. He doesn't believe the virus is real.
Detain him?
Jail him?
Hold him personally accountable for anyone who contracts Coronavirus and dies?I forgot the link. Randy provided it for you.
Is he an idiot? Or is it okay to behave the way he did. Same thing for all the people at beaches, many who I assume are not Trump supporters.
This is a legitimate question. What about the woman who coughed all over the food and the store had to throw away $35k in food. Seen that story?
Of course, GA, I have always said that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I gave you three prominent people that are leading in the same direction that I would not consider "kooks".
Jerry Falwell! Jr. Glenn Beck and the current Lt. Govenor of Texas.
As I told Crank, the actions of young beachgoers I believe are apolitical.Welllllll, regarding the three folks you mentioned, I think that to consider them "kooks" would be charitable.
I think Hannity is much worse than a kook. I can only hope that he isn't seen by rational people as representative of the Right. I wouldn't even give him the benefit of describing him as representing a fringe group.
You have to have some sincere beliefs to belong to any group—and I don't think there is anything sincere about Hannity.
And Glenn Beck? Well, I would allow that he may be considered as a fringe member, but considering his downfall from his earlier Fox News prominence, I don't think he can be considered very representative of the 'normal' Right.
Finally, Falwell Jr. Now we are talking about religious motivations and agendas of the likes of televangelists. I have to back away now, I don't want to be struck down where I sit. ;-)
However, I did go back and spot where I may have missed following a thought that you expanded on. I was still on the preacher and beachgoers train.
My first comment was addressing your comment lead: "As for that silly church and others like it"
Then, it changed to "between comments and actions of Falwell, Glenn Beck, and the Lt. Governor of Texas," — regarding the virus being a Democrat hoax.
I missed a step there, but I still don't think the "Right" as a group, thinks this virus is a hoax. Maybe some fringe voices do, (and yes, I see Hannity as a fringe voice), but that's because they're idiots. They are not representative of my Right.
GAGA, we both know that your "Right" is one of a moderate. This does not apply to you.
But we both know that the radical right has hijacked the Republican Party as just an extension of the whims and caprice of Donald Trump.
Look how few Republicans actually stood against Trump on his coming out Easter Parade day plans? Even the Trump suck-up, Lindsey Graham, had to say that enough is enough. The virus sets the time line as to when it is safe to come out, not Donald Trump.
Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Hanity have not been receiving the big bucks and attracted large audiences for nothing.
Falwell, in a prominent place, could well be representive of the Evangelical Christian Right, with their millions of adherents. And a prominent man like the Lt. Governor, a heartbeat from the top job, speaking about euthanasia for a few to protect the 401K's of the many before a national audience? If these men are just "kooks", then we are all in a lot of trouble.
We can all excuse some goofy a$$ preacher from the hills and hollers, but these other guys, not so much.You are right, the Republican party is now a Far-Right party. And the voices you mentioned are also Far-Right.
But they are not the voice ofthe Right. Just as AOC isn't the voice of the Left.
GASo, I if am right, the "kooks" are running the asylum, does that give you comfort? Republicans are defined as Far Right and are Kooks even though not all kooks are Republican?
Because your "right" seems more and more not to distinguish yourself from what you call the Far Right it easy to see more of you all in the same boat.
I don't see the Rad Left hijacking the Democratic Party in the same way.Then you are blind... OMG the Dens for the past three years have just about done everything they could to look ridiculous and out of control. Did you read all the crazy pork Nancy tried to add to the bill? You know the bill that was all about financial help for American's. As I said they could not look appear crazier if they set out to.
Yes, I did see all the pork from Palosi and I am in opposition to it under the current circumstances.
But, I am not giving the fat cats the keys to the treasury without oversight and strict regulation either, just a different kind of pork. I need the Democrats to keep an eye on that." I need the Democrats to keep an eye on that."
Given that massive ocean liner of pork from the head Democrat that's funny! Certainly setting the fox to watch the hen house! She would have spent 3/4's of it on her pet projects, leaving the people and the businesses high and dry.
The Dems have been obstructing for the past three years? Maybe true. What happened with the Republicans the 8 years before that? Given what the Republicans did to Obama, you expect the Dems to turn the other cheek now? Interesting. How does that work? I see that used all the time - the Dems have been obstructing for 3 years. Fine. What did you expect given their experience of the previous 8 years. They don't treat Trump well. They're mean to him. Again, what did you expect given the previous 8 years?
And I'm disgusted by any pork added to a bill meant to help people in a crisis, but I'm also disgusted by the tax breaks in the bill to rich real estate owners, like Trump. Wonder how that got in there.
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/26/fine-p … d-kushner/
And also disgusted by trying to create a slush fund of a massive amount of tax dollars that only Mnuchin controls to do with whatever he wants.
Let's remember, Mitch McConnell created that bill without any input from the Democrats and expected them to rubber stamp it. If the Democrats had created their own bill, would the Republicans just sign it? Of course not. It would seem to me McConnell designed that bill to hold over the Democrats heads, despite them having no input, to make them look bad.McConnell worked with Chuck Schumer it appeared last Thursday both had a bill they were satisfied with. Nancy Pelosi came on Friday and wanted changes. her changes created media coverage and problems due to her wish list. At any rate, I have not actually read the new bill.
LOL When you get a self proclaimed socialist is a front runner for the Democratic nomination it is pretty apparent that the Rad Left has already hijacked the Democratic Party. Even Obama, producing the biggest welfare giveaway in the world, wasn't anywhere near that proclamation.
At least with the Democratic there is a more conservative faction, where is the more moderate faction from the Republicans?
95% of them. That you choose to call them the "far right" because they haven't moved left as fast as you have does not mean that they are not still the same as they were; moderate. Moving the goalposts as you are does not change that at all.
I am still trying to find out who this "pastor is. Mystery pastor. I mean if I am to condemn him and judge him I would like to know his name. LOL
I have not gotten any response in the form of a link to a name, a quote from the preacher.Randy gave it a bit ago. (At least I assume it's the same one). He doesn't need to take precautions because he will heal the sick with the "laying on of hands". And, although unstated, because it results in an empty collection plate, I'm sure.
Here you go. Same guy. Doing it again.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat … 914259001/
Jesus will take care of it, I guess.
OMG... Ok, let me point out he is willing to add at this point over two trillion to the countries debt! So, if his main purpose is to resurrect the economy at any cost, he sure is doing it half ass-backward.
It's very clear you know nothing about finance. If this economy was let to fail completely we would enter a depression, go under.
And not sure why you continue to quote the Trumps statement in regards to the Democrats creating the virus. His intent was to point out "the Democrats were using the virus as another one of their hoaxes. Context matters.
You want "cadavers, look back to all the deaths that occurred, check out the stats from H1N1. Now that kept our undertakers busy.Yeah, so, Sharlee? Obama in his stimulus was attempting to do the same thing in the fact of an economic calamity that had not been seen since the Great Depression, and the GOP came up with excuses and managed to remain the "fly in the ointment' throughout.
If it wasn't for Democrats in the House, this could have been easily just another bail out for the fat cats. All Presidents worth their salt were prepare to take extraordinary actions to deal with unanticipated crisis. I will give Trump credit in this instance in standing with history's responsible Presidents rather than its less responsible ones.
As for the issue of my claiming that Trump was saying Democrats creating the virus, I will correct myself. Trump, by blaming Obama for the hysteria associated with virus is blaming Democrats and passing the buck. I apologize for confusing you.
Obviously, looking at the body count, this certainly is NOT a hoax. If he had taken the crisis for what it was in the beginning, we would not be in such dire straits now.
H1N1 will be Romper Room in comparison to the casualties that are already associated with the current viral infestation."H1N1 will be Romper Room in comparison to the casualties that are already associated with the current viral infestation."
The numbers decreased today, If this continues over the next few days it will indicate we are headed for a flattened curve.
March 26 USA -- 13,347 new cases . 247 new deaths.
March 27, 2020New cases +9,026 new Deaths 135
The world stats are also getting better. The next few days should tell if we are starting to decrease the infection rate and death toll.
And I must disagree with you in regard to H1N1. I don't think we will come close to the stats from H1N1. You might want to have a look at the CDCs even the lowest estimated stats in regard to H1N1. Actually the 2018 seasonal flu has stats that will outnumber Covid19. The only way Covids stats will increase if they find it has been around all season, and the cases were not recognized and reported as seasonal flu. Which is more than likely.
I am anxious to hear what Dr. Brix will say today in regard to stats and predict where the curve may e headed.Well, Sherlee, I hope you are right about the flattening curb, we would all like to get back to our business as usual.
USA
Total cases : 100,514
New Cases : +15,079
Total Deaths : 1,546
New Deaths : +251
OMG - Thin? Someone needs to pop his flimsy ballon.
The pastor should wait until Easter. And get his buses ready. Trump want packed churches. Lovely. A beautiful thing.
https://youtu.be/LCPHvxYjaHQ?t=433I saw that. So, when Easter rolls around and people fill the pews, is that natural selection assuming the virus is still a problem.
Perhaps the pastor who is the subject of this forum is helping thin the herd. I guess people have to think for themselves. It's certainly true that, regardless of Dem or Repub, when you don't think for yourself in this day and age, bad things happen.Shades of Jim Jones, for goodness sakes!
Thanks, we'll be able to check out the veracity of her claims before long. I hope she's right, but then, she's a Trump enabler till the end.
Another one.
Florida sheriff charges pastor who kept megachurch open, said closings are for ‘pansies’
Tampa-area law enforcement officials issued an arrest warrant Monday and charged a local pastor who has defied coronavirus-related bans on large gatherings, instead encouraging crowds as big as 500 at one service this weekend, a sheriff said.
The Rev. Rodney Howard-Browne, who told his congregants at the River at Tampa Bay Church on March 15 that he would close services only for the Rapture and that closings were for “pansies,” was charged with unlawful assembly and violation of a public health emergency order.
Sheriff’s officials said they warned church lawyers on Friday and Sunday about the “dangerous environment they were creating for their members and the community.”
But Howard-Browne, the self-proclaimed “Holy Ghost bartender” and COVID-19 conspiracy theorist, ignored those warnings. He held two large services on Sunday, deputies said, and even bused people in to the church at 3738 River International Drive.
That’s why Howard-Browne was arrested Monday on misdemeanor charges of unlawful assembly and violating quarantine orders during a public health emergency, said Hillsborough Sheriff Chad Chronister.A Louisiana pastor who has drawn criticism for holding in-person church services despite coronavirus guidelines is asking people to donate their stimulus checks to evangelists who “haven’t had an offering in a month.”
“If you don’t have a church, give through my website,” he added before spelling out that website address in the video.
Rev. Tony Spell called on the public to get behind a new online challenge he is dubbing the #PastorSpellStimulusChallenge in a video posted to YouTube on Wednesday, the same day one of his elderly parishioners reportedly died due to the virus.
Harold Orillion, a 78-year-old member of Life Tabernacle Church, died on Wednesday from complications related to COVID-19. Nevertheless, Spell is insisting that Orillion’s death was not related to COVID-19.
A lawyer hired to represent Life Tabernacle Church in its fight to ignore Louisiana’s stay-at-home order has also fallen ill from the virus and has been hospitalized since Tuesday.
Ugh. Garbage.
The idiot."A Louisiana pastor who has drawn criticism for holding in-person church services despite coronavirus guidelines is asking people to donate their stimulus checks to evangelists who “haven’t had an offering in a month.”
And there you have it. Follow the money. Always follow the money. It isn't, and wasn't, about worshiping God; it was about filling the coffers of the church and the wallet of the preacher. God apparently needs gold more than He needs to be worshipped.I agree. That's why an online service does not work for him. Ugh. Like I said, garbage.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/louisiana-pa … tony-spell
Louisiana pastor breaks house arrest to hold Sunday service amid coronavirus stay-at-home orders
Pastor Tony Spell of the Life Tabernacle Church in Baton Rouge was seen on a live stream Sunday walking among more than 100 congregants, often repeating the phrase, “I’ve just got to get to Jesus. ... Come on America, let’s get back to Jesus.”
Nearly all parishioners were not wearing face masks, and social distancing was not being practiced, The Associated Press reported.
Spell had been placed on house arrest at 9 a.m. Saturday morning after refusing to tell a judge if he’d continue to hold Sunday services.
Spell was released from Parish Prison Tuesday on a $5,000 bond provided he “refrain from any and all criminal conduct, including but not limited to strictly abiding by the all emergency orders issued by the Governor of the State of Louisiana".
He had turned himself in after a warrant was issued for his arrest a day earlier, the Central Police Department said. He was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and improper backing of a vehicle related to an incident the weekend prior.
Spell was reportedly filmed backing a church bus toward a protester outside the church before stopping a few feet away from him, according to local media reports.
SMHPerhaps he should pray that his collection plates be filled with manna rather than risk the lives of his parishioners trying to get them to donate money.
As Darwin would say, this is called thinning the herd. One way to raise the average IQ of the general public is to let those with the lower IQs kill themselves. If that is what they want, leave them be.
Sadly, we do not have the medical technology nor the fiscal ability to do otherwise.
I prefer "improve the gene pool". Isn't that "medical talk"? Kind of anyway?
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