Jan. 6, Trump's Wins and Losses.
Months before the election Trump started the drumbeat of "If I lose the election then it is rigged." After he lost the election, he claimed the election was a fraud and was stolen from him. He filed more than 50 lawsuits, but ultimately they were turned down by each of the judges, some of whom were appointed by Trump. However, many right wing states used his claim as an excuse to change the voting laws to give advantage to right wing voters.
That didn't work so then he tried to intimidate the Georgia Secretary of State to find 11,000 votes that he needed to win. He also presented false claims of fraudulent ballot counting while intimidating the lives of the ballot counters.
That didn't work so then he had many state electors create a false electoral slate to be used to replace the real slate to be certified on Jan. 6
In the meantime he and his cohorts were broadcasting the Jan. 6 event to his supporters and to The Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. The Secret Service also knew about the event via radio transmission of those who were planning the assault..
Trump and his cohorts then incited the crowd to go to the Capitol and Stop the Certification Process and replace the real electoral slate with the false one. And if "Pence didn't do the right thing he was no longer Trump's friend."
This resulted in death, destruction, and injuries to those who participated in the storming and defense of the Capitol and a complete and total disruption of the real certification process.
Trump has continued to this day to state the election was stolen, even though he knows better. However he now has millions of people who believe he won the election and he has intimidated the GOP congress to remain silent about Jan. 6
He has now been subpoenaed by the Jan. 6 committee. His actions have resulted in many people being imprisoned, indicted and pleading guilty to what took place leading up to Jan.6 and to the actual event.
How can one person cause so much chaos because they can not accept the fact that they lost a competition to get re-elected as President. It begs the question of Trump's state of mind. Is he delusional in believing that he won? Have his supporters been brainwashed by him.?
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/11253335 … p-subpoena
.Sounds like he's taking notes from the playbook of Democrats; if you fail, try again a different way. Truth, honesty, reality; throw all out the window and try every avenue possible, whether legal or not.
He had good teachers, didn't he?Wilderness: Now it's all about feelings with Trump. Feelings are not facts.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 5e7954a3c9You mean like the "fact" that Trump colluded with Putin. Or the "fact" that he gave instructions to break into Congress. Or 100 different "facts" promoted by Democrats over the past 5 years but which they have never been able to prove.
Got it.Wilderness: You know what I mean. You are playing the what about game...nice try.
First ---The article, not sure if you read it. Take two seconds --- LOL
‘I’m Sorry ... Mr. Snowflake’: Trump Gets Stark Reality Check From Rep. Jamie Raskin
Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) on Friday dismantled former President Donald Trump’s 14-page response to a subpoena from the House select committee investigating the deadly U.S. Capitol riot.
Raskin, a member of the committee, told MSNBC’s Chris Hayes that Trump was already “playing his silly games” with his reply.
“I mean, that letter, including the use of the royal ‘we,’ which was pretty jarring, is just an outrageous distraction from the reality to the extent that there’s anything substance or substantive there,” he continued.
Raskin reality-checked Trump over his claim that Republicans “feel” the election was rigged, saying MAGA Republicans have as yet been unable to pinpoint to him how the vote was actually stolen.
“They can’t say. They just have a feeling. And in fact, Trump uses that too in this enormously revealing letter, where he says lots of people ‘feel’ that there was fraud,” he added. “I’m sorry. Your feelings, Mr. Snowflake, cannot dictate the course of the future of the republic. No, your feelings cannot dictate our elections." YES , this is the end...
I think one needs to read Trump's long letter before making any comment on your OP. Maybe it would have been a good idea to offer a link to the letter before it is belittled. However, it appears PP did not see that as important. Hey, it's his thread, but I like more information before making a comment on any issue.
Not sure the article could be called an article. It is a couple of short paragraphs, not much thought went into it. However, I can critique a few things, due to having read Trump's letter.
Trump uses the word "we" frequently when speaking about our movement, he is known for including those that support him, and always gives credit to supporters for supporting what we believe in. Which is simply a quest to Make America Great Again. So, Trump using the word "we" is not by any means new for Trump. One only needs to watch any of his rallies to see this is factual.
In the letter, Trump speaks about his view of what some Republicans feel in regard to the 2020 election. And he is more likely correct, many feel something did happen and are not really sure of what. I don't find this unusual, due to many of the accusations that went uninvestigated.
And what really strikes me as funny - He uses that Raskin uses the word "snowflake". Not sure he got the memo, that's one of the labels Republicans coined for Democrats that fall far left. I always get a kick out of anyone that leans left using the label.Sharlee: You know as well as I do that feelings are not facts and won't stand up in court of law. Since when does an article have to be long winded? How do you like using Snow Flake against those who originated it?
Let's cut out the BS. Do you deny Trump lied about the election being stolen from him?
Do you deny that there was no voter fraud?.
Do you deny that Trump tried to stop the certification process and replace the slate with a fake slate.
Do you deny that he incited the storming of the Capitol and that Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were there to stop the certification process?
Do you deny that they had armed quick reaction groups stationed in Virginia?
I don't care about the context of Trump's letter, It is another one of his stall tactics. In my view, he is a sick mentally disturbed person who has to win no matter what the cost is to others.
Mentality balanced people accept that they have lost and move on. They don't create chaos, death, injury, and destruction of government property, but Trump does...and he still hasn't given up."Sharlee: You know as well as I do that feelings are not facts and won't stand up in court of law."
I did in no way say they were. Again, it appears you did not read my comment. I just did not say feelings constitute facts. And not sure what you are talking about in regard to feelings not being admissible in a court of law. I have been hammering that home in regard to the Jan 6th committee's finding. All views, nothing that constitutes facts. Hearsay and I overheard is not even admissible in a court of law.
"Let's cut out the BS. Do you deny Trump lied about the election being stolen from him? "
I have answered this so many times when asked here on HP.
I have no idea what Trump truly feels about the election being stolen. I can factually say he still to today said the election was stolen. So, I have no right to call him a liar.Sharlee: You didn't answer my questions about denial. I'll ask them again.
Do you deny that there was no voter fraud?.
Do you deny that Trump tried to stop the certification process and replace the slate with a fake slate.
Do you deny that he incited the storming of the Capitol and that Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were there to stop the certification process?
Do you deny that they had armed quick reaction groups stationed in Virginia?There was voter fraud. Was it enough to alter the election? I have no idea. If you think there was not you have been watching too much CNN>
Well, Doc, it is not enough to make unsubstantiated accusations. There has to have been proof and none has been provided either by Trump or his entourage of sycophants and attorneys. And ultimately, that is the only valid point that anyone is interested in.
If you are so naiive as to believe there is no voter fraud during elections...well, I think you can finish that thought.
How do you know that there was voter fraud beyond your following the standard rightwing squawk boxes?
The Right winger and their endless conspiracy theories and loathsome accusations which never seem to hold water when evaluated closely, has become more than just tiresome....
No proof, no soap!There always has been voter fraud, there always will be voter fraud. It may benefit one party one year, another party in another year. I am not sure down where you live as I have never lived in Florida, but I did live in Chicago and it was common practice there. (It may have benefited Bush against Gore in your state.)
Do I have a CNN report to show you? No. Will you accept an old edu site?
https://undercover.hosting.nyu.edu/s/un … _order=asc
Yes, I am sure it is still happening. If you want to go ahead and live your life believing it does not happen that is fine. You really should think instead of accepting everything that the Democratic party mandates and blaming the right wing.Look, Doc I don't deny that voter fraud exists any more than I expect any election involving millions of votes cast to be without any irregularity.
You had the Daley machine in Chicago and claims of voting fraud since the 50 year data of the 1970s.
It probably has always happened, but if we stopped the show every time an unsubstantiated claim is made or claims that are not substantive enough to affect the prevailing outcome, how could anyone ever get elected?
If either Nixon (1960) Gore (2000) or Clinton (2016) were the whining crybabies that Trump currently has been over a complaint that has not had any substance, the wheels of government would come to an abrupt halt.
I blame the right wing because from my perspective they are in ideology, agenda and politics the more troublesome between the two parties. But that again, is just my humble opinion.
This current compliant about a stolen election is so much bullshyte promulgated by the Right and the fact they seem to continue to persist in it is unique to this instance, yet, does not make it any more credible.This was your comment, "How do you know that there was voter fraud beyond your following the standard rightwing squawk boxes?"
I am not suggesting you stop and count hanging chads, but to suggest there is no voter fraud? No, not only the "rightwing squawk boxers" acknowledge that it is reality.
Okay, when did Trump caused destruction of life and property, when Barak Obama, won the Presidency, if I'm correct?
Mike, thanks for the link. But does that related to Obama' presidency? Trump gave a shut at the Presidency along with Obama. The later won. What type of destruction resulted? That''s my question. Thanks.
No, it relates to Trump's Jan. 6 attempt to overthrow the government by attacking the U.S. Capitol building...Just google it.
Mike, thanks again. But I insisted on a pre-Trump presidency scenario destruction of life and property relating to his election lose.
Trump's 'coup lawyer,' John Eastman, smacked down by federal court
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 576674586fTrump, overall, is basically no good, he has never been "any good". How it is that so many are mesmerized by this excuse for human being is beyond me?
The Democrats have not even began to approach the levels of treachery we have witnessed from the Trump, Republicans and the Right over the last 3 years.
Yet the conservatives on this forum continue to ply us all with endless excuses. I don't buy it. I want Trump and all of his henchmen brought to justice at the earliest opportunity.
I surely gave the lady that came by my house the other day the riot act when she, in the process of dropping off pro-DeSantis literature, was strongly admonished that my house was a Democrat stronghold with even my kitty and golden retriever pulling the lever only for democratic candidates."Yet the conservatives on this forum continue to ply us all with endless excuses. I don't buy it. I want Trump and all of his henchmen brought to justice at the earliest opportunity."
I politely disagree a bit... Because I can't speak for all Conservatives that post here. But But But --- I think most Conservatives here debate idea's about all that is Trump, not offer excuses. Yes, we pick things apart to get to the bone. As you are pretty good at, I must say.
And to be fair we had plenty of meat when it came to the Russia Russia Russia scam, and now the Hunter Biden accusations. So, some of us do hope to still shed light on the DNC/ Hillary "stuff". And see justice done in regard to both issues.Credence: Trump is a cunning, calculating, narcissistic master con-artist. One thing I have learned about con-artist. Once their con has been uncovered, they do two things. They play the victim to those they have conned and attack those who have uncovered their con.
Since he has been subpoenaed, he has written a 14 page rebuttal to the Jan. 6 committee condemning them and anybody who opposes him. He then holds rallies and other forms of communication where he plays the victim to his base.
His base could care less about Jan. 6 and the chaos, death, destruction, and injury that he created by not accepting that he lost the election. He has conned them into thinking the election was stolen from him.
The Jan. 6 committee should have subpoenaed him and his cohorts in the first Jan. 6 meeting. He is now counting on the midterms to change the house and the senate to be in control of congress. They will kill the Jan. 6 committee and Trump will once again get away scot free, unless Merrick Garland takes action between now and the mid-terms.Yes, Trump is trying to run out the clock. We will have until January of next year to get an indictment. This Trump man is most irritating, he seems to intimidate everyone and is made of teflon.
As corrupt as the GOP is the entire case would be shelved if they get control of Congress. The danger being that Trump gets away with it and he and his followers will be all the more emboldened next time.
If only we could see a Democrat with the understanding Trump had as to what our country needs. Instead we get Democrats that produce massive inflation, a recession and millions of illegal aliens being helped to enter the country so we can take care of them as our income falls.
Personally, as much as I dislike Trump himself, I would have to vote for him again over another Democrat that hasn't a clue as to what we need.
Produce a Trump with Obama's talent for rhetoric - someone that will fight for our people and our country rather than destroy it. Call him/her a Democrat, a Republican, an independent, a Libertarian; call that person anything you want and he/she will get the White House. Instead the Democrat party can only produce the likes of Biden, Pelosi and Cortez. It only knows socialism, proven over many, many historical examples, of how to destroy a country.Well, I have to start with the point that we are in stark disagreement as to "what the country needs". Trump has brought nothing but dissension and disharmony for the entire nation. The sooner he is shelved, the better.
The inflation thing is just another rightwing cheap shot. This has been a phenomenon that has been common across Europe and Japan, yet Biden is expected to pull a rabbit out from a hat over a global issue?
I will take Obama's rhetoric over Trumps lies anytime. In my humble opinion, the Republicans, their candidates and their agenda seriously sucks.....Trump didn't bring dissension nearly as much as those that hated him did.
Biden cannot pull a rabbit out to correct what he caused. We are all stuck with it. But if you don't think he caused it, find an economist, any honest one, that thinks injecting trillions of dollars into an economy with nothing in return will not raise prices. That's called "inflation".
Next you can explain how supporting millions of illegal aliens is good for the country, followed by discussion on how high crime rates benefit the population.
Then you can continue by describing how cities and whole states refusing to abide by federal law is good for the country, with a sidenote on the honesty of "sanctuary cities" that refuse to care for illegals in town. Follow that by telling just how destroying our military is useful to us.
The only thing I can think of off hand that liberals are doing that is good for us is the fight for abortion. The rest is all destructive.Wilderness: Biden didn't inject money into the economy. It was done by the Feds with quantitative easing, most of it done under Trump's watch, Then you have the supply chain issue and the pandemic where Trump and Biden both wrote checks for households and businesses. The Feds have to raise the interest rates to slow down the economy and yes we will probably go into a recession, but it's all part of a business cycle.
What about the 4 trillion dollar stimulus initiated by Trump? How could Biden be so wrong headed while Trump used the same remedy not long before Biden took office?
You can explain to me how a President of the United States can clearly cheat in being behind fake electors and stealing the voice of the majority of voters? It may not matter to you, but that one grevious sin overrides what many of you consider to be Trump virtues.
Biden's administration and its mistakes are dwarfed in comparison with Trump, the Republicans and their attack on the very democratic process that governs us all.
That automatically disqualifies Republicans and conservatives who continue to support unsubstantiated lies regarding the election outcome, and who contributed to the undermining of Constitutional prescribed protocol, period....If you don't have it, and spend $100 anyway, you will survive without undue hardship. If you do that, and then spend another $500 your don't have you will be in deep financial trouble. Are you truly trying to say that because we got away with a big giveaway we can do it again without trouble? Could we do it a 3rd and 4th time? Using the same reasoning, could we not do it every month for the rest of my life?
"Biden's administration and its mistakes are dwarfed in comparison with Trump"
Except that Biden's mistakes have clearly and massively damaged our country, while Trump's were almost all only words even after 10X amplification by liberals. You cannot find hardly any action he took that caused damage. A few, to be sure, but all small and fairly inconsequential. As pointed out, Biden is not in that position, having hurt virtually every person in the country.We have some information that indicates many citizens are turning more to credit cards. But Joe claims we are doing really well...
"In the last year, credit card debt jumped by $100 billion — a 13% increase — which is the largest in more than 20 years. Experts say any relief for consumers might be months away. Credit card usage is up as household debt surpasses $16 trillion for the first time ever during the second quarter."
https://www.wmur.com/article/credit-car … 20quarter.
And getting worse
"How much credit card debt do Americans have? Americans' total credit card balance is $887 billion in the second quarter of 2022, according to the latest consumer debt data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. That's a $46 billion jump from $841 billion in the first quarter of 2022." https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-card … of%202022.
According to the court filing, some of the emails apparently show that Trump knowingly signed a document under oath certifying that inaccurate figures related to voter fraud were correct.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 2683be0543Update on Jan. 6 Committee Final Actions
During its final public meeting Monday, the panel's seven Democrats and two Republicans voted unanimously to adopt its final report and urge the Justice Department to prosecute Trump for obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to make a false statement and incitement, rebellion or insurrection. Trump's actions could also constitute violations of two other conspiracy statutes depending on potential evidence developed by the Justice Department, the panel said in a summary of the report.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/january-6- … epartment/
"he is a sick mentally disturbed person"
The same could be said about those suffering from TDS.DrMark: What you are calling TDS is actually reality. We see Trump for what he really is, a narcissistic master con-artist who is so obsessed at winning that he will lie and cheat at any cost. He doesn't care who are what he harms in his obsession to win.
Funny how deranged people always think only THEY see reality.
hahaha.
I realize you are not being paranoid here, as you know very well that Trump and all his cronies are out to get you.Dr. Mark: That's not proof. That is your opinion. They are not out to get me. What you do not realize is that Trump and his cronies attempted to overthrow our government. It he and they are not brought to justice, they will try again and this time they may be successful in threating the democratic republic that is the bedrock of what this country stands on..
Is this not all your view? Unless Trump and or his "cronies have been indicted for a crime in regard to the Jan 6th protest/riot. I would think if what you feel is true, it looks very bad for our DOJ.
What you do not realize here is that is your opinion; although your party persecuted the man from even before he took office they have no proof of anything. You all told us you would impeach him even before he started his job. He certainly was not being paranoid.
If Trump had preventively changed the way the election was run, (while he still was in office,) none of this would've happened. I guess he felt he couldn't. I thought at the time that the election should be postponed until after Covid had settled down. Like, maybe in January ... and without drop-off boxes.
It's not fair that Covid prevented a fair election, which it did.
Sadly, Unfairness is more and more prevalent.
However, I will never get used to it and, in fact, citizens in all political parties are waking the X up and fighting against it wherever it raises its ugly, disgusting head.
Thank goodness."Trump has brought nothing but dissension and disharmony for the entire nation. The sooner he is shelved, the better."
Shelved by who? the Democrats?
Of course!
LOL!Democratic Party has become:
1. An Elitist Cabal of Warmongers.
2. A Party of ideologues driven by cowardly wokeness.
3. Intent on taking the country by putting it under it's complete control.
It is dividing us by:
*Radicalizing every issue.
*Stoking anti-white racism.
*Working to undermine our God-given freedoms.
*Being hostile to people of faith & spirituality.
*Demonizing the police.
*Protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans.
*Promoting open borders.
*Weaponizing the national security state and going after political opponents.
*Dragging us into the Ukraine war.Trump's Inaugural Speech:
"We are one nation and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home, and one glorious destiny. The oath of office, I take today, is an oath of allegiance to all Americans. For many decades, we’ve enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries, while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military. We’ve defended other nation’s borders while refusing to defend our own. And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas, while America’s infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay. We’ve made other countries rich while the wealth, strength and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon. One by one, the factories shuddered and left our shores, with not even a thought about the millions and millions of American workers that were left behind. The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.
But that is the past, and now we are looking only to the future. We assembled here today our issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital, and in every hall of power, from this day forward: a new vision will govern our land, from this day forward, it’s going to be only America first. America first.
Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families. We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs. Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength. I will fight for you with every breath in my body, and I will never, ever let you down. America will start winning again, winning like never before. We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams. We will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels, and railways, all across our wonderful nation. We will get our people off of welfare and back to work, rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor.
We will follow two simple rules: buy American, and hire American. We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world, but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first. We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example. We will shine for everyone to follow. We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones, and you unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the Earth.
At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice. The Bible tells us, how good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements, but always pursue solidarity. When America is united, America is totally unstoppable. There should be no fear. We are protected, and we will always be protected. We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement. And most importantly, we will be protected by God.... at the end of the commercial about Triple A insurance:
"In his world," the wife explains.
To update this thread --- Though this update belonged here.
Jan. 6 committee plans to issue criminal referrals to DOJ, chairman says
https://www.aol.com/news/jan-6-committe … 00052.html
"The House select committee investigating Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection plans to make criminal referrals to the Justice Department based on its findings, Chairman Bennie Thompson told reporters on Tuesday.
Speaking on Capitol Hill, Thompson, D-Miss., didn’t provide details on who would be implicated for charges based on the Jan. 6 riot by supporters of then-President Donald Trump attempting to stop Joe Biden from being formally recognized as the winner of the 2020 election. The committee is set to meet Tuesday afternoon.
With the panel’s work set to end in weeks, the question of whether charges would be recommended against Trump has loomed over the public proceedings, which began in June. Last month the Washington Post reported that some of the committee’s staff members were upset with the focus in the final report on Trump and not the failures of law enforcement and the intelligence community, blaming the committee’s Republican vice chair, Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming."
So, we wait...
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