Trump's Criminal Trials

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  1. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 months ago

    The country will get at least one verdict before the November election.  The New York Hush Money/Election Interference case is set to kick off on March 25.  Trump attorneys attempts to get charges dropped and the case delayed were struck down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfD3FFRWOX4

    Might as well have one thread for all the updates from what appears to be a busy trial season this summer.

    1. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
      Kathleen Cochranposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      He has been proven to be liable for a sexual assault and defaming the victim. How many does it take not to vote for someone?

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        You and I both know, from the trial you referenced and the court rulings surrounding the 2020 election, that MAGA will believe Trump over the verdicts from judges and juries.  They are entirely brainwashed.

    2. peterstreep profile image79
      peterstreepposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      The strange thing is that Trump does not show remorse. He doesn't show guilt. It shows how detached he is from normal rules and life.
      He has grown up in a world of riches where the law doesn't count. Where you can do everything you want without being accountable.
      And now suddenly he is confronted with the law and doesn't understand why the law is against him. Makes sense as his worldview is completely warped and detached from reality.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
        Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

        Thanks for your observation and comment. It was not strange. When you get very rich, get along with the poor. Live and eat with them.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 3 months agoin reply to this

        Just food for thought --   Let's explore the viewpoint that Trump's lack of remorse and guilt might stem from telling the truth and not being guilty of the accusations against him.

        In my view, it's essential to acknowledge that individuals vary in their emotional expressions, including how they show remorse or guilt. Some people may not outwardly display these emotions even if they are innocent or telling the truth. Therefore, Trump's demeanor alone may not be conclusive evidence of guilt.

        Trump has consistently denied the accusations against him and asserted his innocence. From his perspective, showing remorse or guilt could be interpreted as an admission of wrongdoing, which he believes he has not committed. In this context, his lack of remorse could be seen as consistent with his stance of innocence rather than evidence of guilt.

        The accusations against Trump have been highly politicized, with intense scrutiny from various angles. In such a charged environment, any display of remorse or guilt could be misconstrued or exploited for political purposes. Therefore, Trump might be cautious about showing emotions that could be manipulated or misrepresented.

        It's worth considering that Trump's public persona is often characterized by confidence and assertiveness. Displaying remorse or guilt may not align with the image that he seeks to project to his supporters and the public.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image76
          Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Trump is guilty of giving Americans a non-establishment choice.

          They found him guilty, years after the fact, on a loan paid back fully, with interest, given to him by the most sophisticated banks...

          Have you ever bought a House and taken a Mortgage... then you know they do their due diligence, they aren't giving you that loan based on guesswork or your word.

          That's all you need to know... that isn't rule of law... that is eyes-wide-open proof that the Justice system has been weaponized to destroy him.

          Reference to what I am referring to:
          https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk … 9fdd9c4565

          What is worse, is that anyone, and I mean anyone familiar in the least with the values of property in that area know there is absolutely no way you can validate the Court's claim.  It's 100% BS... anyone, any reasonable, rational human knows this.

        2. Willowarbor profile image61
          Willowarborposted 3 months agoin reply to this

          From his perspective, showing remorse or guilt could be interpreted as an admission of wrongdoing

          But a judge found him guilty after reviewing all of the evidence, after hearing from all of the witnesses and after Trump's own attorneys put forth a defense.  It has been adjudicated, he has been found guilty of fraud and the penalty applied.     

          He will continue to bluster and bloviate how he's innocent but why would I believe him? I find that Trump continually asks me to suspend my belief in the judicial system when it rules against him. It's nonsensical . I'm also further offended by media and media personalities that continually try to convince me that all negative outcomes concerning Trump are automatically illegitimate. That he is simply a victim.  None of it's rational and I have no respect for those who adopt a victim mentality as an identity .  I think it highlights a psychological deficiency.

          Lack of remorse? Some call that sociopathy.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image76
            Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            A judge found him guilty [BEFORE] reviewing all of the evidence, [BEFORE] hearing from all of the witnesses and [BEFORE] Trump's own attorneys put forth a defense.

            The kangaroo court put on a show, so they could hand down their judgement, which they had determined, as soon as they came up with the charge to be brought against him.

        3. Miebakagh57 profile image67
          Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Even if Trump was guilty, he can tell that to his lawyers, in confidence, and they wouldn't let him confess publicly.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image87
            Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, that is very true.

        4. peterstreep profile image79
          peterstreepposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          That's goo reasoning Charlee. If someone is innocent it would be strange to show remorse. But the opposite is true as well. Murderers that are guilty do not always show remorse and guilt even if it is crystal clear the accused is guilty. So the two things, the feelings and showing of feelings, are not evidence of a crime committed nor being innocent.

          In the US and probably in all countries, the law is in favour of rich people. Poor people end up quicker in jail. Because they can not pay proper lawyers or bail or can not stall the process.
          To convict a rich person you have to move mountains. The fact that Trump has all the money in the world to get the best lawyers, can go trial after trial, shows that the evidence against him was incredibly strong. If the evidence wasn't that strong, even the slightest, he would have won the case.

          You can say, it was a political trial. But, that's something you can say to anybody with political alliance, just as you can say that the trial is racists as it is about a black person... Everything can be labeled and with reason. But than it's impossible to make any court case.
          Everybody, independent of race, religion, wealth or status should be prosecuted if there is reason to do so. And one should not hold back because it could be labeled as racist, political motivated, political correct or social unjust etc.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image76
            Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

            When there is no crime, and there is no one claiming there is a crime, and then an AG that said her goal was to get Trump, uses here position to fabricate a charge and works with a Judge to find against Trump, despite no evidence, no facts, simply based on the Judge finding it so...

            You cannot get any more political, any more of a mockery of justice, than that.

            1. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              So an attorney general cannot assert criminality on behalf of the state?  That they do not have laws that protect the marketplace of the state of New York from people using fraudulent means to get more beneficial terms and sums of loans, thus endangering the entire enterprise?  That's some assertion not grounded in legal reality.

              And the assertion that there was no evidence or facts is the latest blatant lie from the right we are seeing.  If anyone can get past the paywall here, the actual ruling has the many details that substantiate the decades of fraudulent filings:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 … tated.html

            2. peterstreep profile image79
              peterstreepposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              Ken, if there was no crime, there was no case.
              There was obvious plenty of strong evidence as Trump could not show that he was innocent even with millions spend on lawyers.
              As said before. If a rich person like Trump is unable to win a case, the evidence must be incredibly strong and water tight. As sure his lawyers would have looked into all the possibilities, trying to find cracks in the evidence.
              So or Trump had terrible lawyers, or the evidence was against him and he was indeed guilty.

              Of course people will say it was political. But that will be said to all trials against an ex-president. But this does not mean that an ex president, or president or any political figure can't be guilty of a crime. If you use this as an argument for not prosecuting a political person, you can't prosecute anyone. And so, you give them a card blanch to do whatever they like.
              If Biden has not paid his taxes or molested a women or drove to fast, he too should be prosecuted.

              1. Readmikenow profile image94
                Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                "If a rich person like Trump is unable to win a case, the evidence must be incredibly strong and water tight."

                Or...the judge involved may be incredibly corrupt.

                You should look at the case.  It is online.  There were no victims. None of the banks President Trump dealt with had an issue with how he appraised his properties.  The reason is they all got paid back their loans.

                This was done by a corrupt prosecutor and an even more corrupt judge.  New York is known for its judicial corruption and this is just one more example.

                1. Willowarbor profile image61
                  Willowarborposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  Are all judges corrupt? Or just the ones who handle Trump's cases? Are all the grand juries corrupt or just the ones that get seated for Trump cases?

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
                    Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                    I'm wondering about that.

                2. peterstreep profile image79
                  peterstreepposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  The Judge is not the only person who is active in the case. You have lots of people working on it who have to look at the evidence and see if it holds up.
                  If the Judge is corrupt than the lawyers should sue the judge with evidence of corruption. If they don't have evidence, than she/he is not corrupt.

              2. Ken Burgess profile image76
                Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                In NY it is actually quite the opposite, no evidence is needed, in fact, you can have a large amount of evidence disproving it, as Trump has had for both primary cases against him in NY... the 'rape' case and the 'fraud' case.

                But when dealing with kangaroo courts and banana republic governments, no real evidence is ever needed.  Very much like Russia, where Alexei Navalny was persecuted for challenging the ruling regime (Putin), jailed, and eventually killed.

                There are many such shenanigans going on in America today, Trump is the most obvious, but they have arrested thousands of Trump supporters, brought cases against almost all of the Lawyers who were defending him and bringing forth his election 2020 claims, including Juliani.

                They have arrested whistle blowers who came forward from the FBI to expose the Biden family corruption, others have just disappeared.

                I could go on about the Dossier, Hunter Biden, so much that has been hashed out in these forum threads for years now...

                Listen to this gentleman, he has a great deal of information to consider:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRYSKaS-XtQ

                He discusses the great lengths the 'government' has gone to retain control of the narrative, of information, and overall control of the people, especially since 2016 and Trump's win and Brexit.

                Now one needs to consider the greater problem of international trade and reserve currency status.  The Biden Administration with its efforts against Russia, the sanctions, confiscations of Russian assets, etc. has incentivized all of the non-Western world to move off the Dollar as the world reserve and into new trade agreements that do not include America.

                This is one such discussion on this matter:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2b5GCMxP3g

                And then you have the Open Borders - Open Society, UN Agenda 2030, that keeps moving towards its destructive, disruptive goals to create a NWO.

                A discussion about Larry Fink, George Soros, the WEF and how they are using their billions to try and transpose America into something quite opposite of what it was founded on.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qpvDW9r8Wg

                1. Valeant profile image86
                  Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  No evidence?  Now that's a funny claim.  They have Trump on tape admitting he sexually assaults women in just the manner he did with E. Jean Carroll.  They have him confusing her with his wife, undercutting that stupid claim that 'she isn't my type.'  They had two other witnesses who testified he did the same thing to them to establish a pattern that he is a serial rapist.  But apparently, defending rapists is the MAGA way now.

                  MAGA has been radicalized to deny the mountains of evidence against their cult leader.  It's becoming really sad to watch them try and defend his many crimes, especially rape.

                  And we had to wait for most of the day, but there's the daily mention of open borders and UN Agenda from Ken.  Can't wait for it tomorrow too, and the day after that, and the one after that - even though this is a thread for Trump's criminal trials.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image94
                    Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    "they have Trump on tape admitting he sexually assaults women in just the manner he did with E. Jean Carroll.  They have him confusing her with his wife, undercutting that stupid claim that 'she isn't my type.'  They had two other witnesses who testified he did the same thing to them to establish a pattern that he is a serial rapist."

                    And NONE of that proves a rape occurred.  None of it.  There is NO direct evidence.  None. She didn't sue him in a criminal court but in a civil trial.  It's obvious she wasn't after justice...she was after MONEY.  Her legal bills were paid by a huge democrat doner who hates President Donald Trump.

                    A shame the left can't see this for what it is..a successful attempt at financial enrichment. That is all it is.

                    Such a made-up accusation is what defines a travesty of justice.

                    I do wonder why E. Jean Carroll's interview with Anderson Cooper wasn't permitted to be used as evidence. The one where she claims rape isn't physical and she considers it sexy.

                2. peterstreep profile image79
                  peterstreepposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  Ken, I find this incredibly difficult to believe.
                  If so, why is it that this happens only to the Trump camp, and why are there no such cases to the Obama camp, the Bush camp, the Clinton camp or the Biden camp.
                  To me, if this "convict a person without evidence practices" is only against one camp, I think it to be untrue. As you should see this behaviour towards all camps over the years.

                  1. Valeant profile image86
                    Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    You should find his claims unbelievable, because as I listed in my post above, there was plenty of evidence to establish a pattern of conduct, including Trump admitting in an interview that he does exactly what he was claimed to have done.

                  2. Ken Burgess profile image76
                    Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    It is obvious, is it not, that the Obama, Bush, Clinton and Biden camps are all part of the accepted establishment, towing the same line?

                    Did you know Bush Sr. was former Director of the CIA?

                    Did you know that Dick Cheney formerly served Nixon and then Ford?

                    Clearly the Clinton's spent most of their adult lives serving in DC, first Bill, and then Hillary, more than 30 years around the Presidency.

                    The real question is, is this really about Donald Trump as a person?

                    Or is it about something broader?

                    The attacks coming from nearly every major institution in the United States the media, academia the judiciary.

                    Trump is just the apotheosis. He is the apex of all they hate, in a time when they teach: Mandatory IRS Diversity Training Includes Material From Trans Academic Who Called For ‘Death Of Whiteness’

                    Trump speaks of America first, when they want to do away with Borders, Nation and Patriotism.

                    Trump speaks about being the only President in decades not to start a new war or topple another nation, at a time when then want to establish the American hegemony around the world by force.

                    Obama helped usher in the new polarization of American society, he polarized America as no other president since Woodrow Wilson, not just on issues of race, but also on issues of culture and sexual mores.

                    We moved from a country where in 2008, Obama campaigned as a proponent of traditional marriage to a country where, by the time he left office, there were open discussions about whether men were women.

                    Woodrow Wilson, the worst president of all time, a vicious racist who led us into World War I, created the system that led us into World War II, jailed his political opponents for sedition, and created the bureaucratic state that is used against political opponents and American citizens today.

                    And here we are again, the mechanisms of the state being used to oppress, divide, and attack political opponents for sedition... and every other crime on the books.

                    And I hate to say, here we are again, on the precipice of World War, evident to all those who can really see.  They cannot have a return to Trump, a return to normalcy, a return to peace... it goes against everything those in control today have spent their entire lives working toward.

    3. peterstreep profile image79
      peterstreepposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      I almost forgot about it. How is the Mar Largo case going?

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        Well Cannon ruled against Trump co-defendants this week, asserting they do not have rights to see classified material.

        The Supreme Court is taking up the immunity appeal.

        And Illinois just ruled Trump does not qualify for the primary ballot due to the 14th Amendment, even though the judge stayed her ruling temporarily.

  2. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 months ago

    Trump's attorney complained today that this would be a detriment to Trump's campaign, then the prosecutors pulled out an e-mail from Trump's attorney where he had previously stated that a trial that started on March 25 would not inhibited Trump's campaigning at all.  Apparently, they tried to get the trial pushed this late, with the hopes of a further delay that failed to materialize.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuudmco8WE

  3. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 months ago

    Not criminal, but New York's civil suit outcome - $364 million for decades of fraud.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5sm5b0yoUk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbgltmFwlg

    1. Willowarbor profile image61
      Willowarborposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      Many voted for him in 2016 because of his supposed business savvy and they believed a businessman would be good for the government.   But now it has been determined that the businessman committed fraud and must pay a penalty of almost 350 million dollars. 
      Is anyone rethinking his business acumen at this point??

      He owes almost 450 million in his various cases at this point. That's a lot of red hats.  I guess that is why he is pushing to get Lara Trump into the RNC leadership...to fund his legal fees along with monetary judgments.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        And what we got is Trump running the government in a way that allowed him to personally profit from it by charging the Secret Service exorbitant rates, foreign dignitaries paying him through his hotel, and foreign governments doing favors for Jared and Ivanka, who were both employed in government at the time.

  4. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 3 months ago

    As if Trump isn't good at all, whose good enough? Biden?

  5. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 3 months ago

    Truth! Preach.
    If "preach" is too offensive, testify! In other words...speak, verifiable words!

    1. Ken Burgess profile image76
      Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      New York State becomes 'legal banana republic'

      Legal experts analyzed what they called "breathtaking" civil penalties against former President Donald Trump, Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, former Trump Organization Comptroller Jeffrey McConney and ex-CFO Allen Weisselberg – warning other corporations based in the Empire State may realize they could suddenly be put out of business by the state on a political whim.

      "[Y]ou just say goodbye to New York, which fits a pattern that many successful people have been doing and leaving New York because New York is just too political, too blue and too punitive – you're seeing that in the business community and among upper income New Yorkers already," Former Bush White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said.

      "It's one of the greatest ironies of this case: In the name of protecting businesses in New York, you probably just led to hundreds of businesses looking at potential rentals in Florida because they look and they go, ‘wow, if we fall on the wrong side of the politics in New York, they could sell us off for spare parts’."

      Fleischer noted that New York's justice system has descended into a quasi-political entity, in that liberals and Democrats have been placed at the highest levers of power for the past few decades.

      "There's very little pressure pushing back on these politicians here (in New York) to stop doing it because it's wrong," Fleischer added.

      "So unless the appeals process in New York comes to the rescue, it's become a legal banana republic."

      Turley told "The Story" that when Trump very likely appeals the decision, the appellate court – which is higher than the districted Supreme Court in New York – will have to determine whether the former president was subject to a selective prosecution.

      He pointed to James' campaign promises which included plans to "be a real pain in [Trump's] a--." [video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yj0NKSsuU]

      "Clearly, James made this pledge that she was going to bag Donald Trump. And it is part of an overall campaign that seems to be an effort at ‘death by exposure’ both on the civil and criminal side."

      - - - - -

      New York's civil law in is unique because the proverbial crime can essentially be victimless, as this was, a fabrication of a AG that was intent on using the NY Justice System to pursue her own desires.

      NY does not require that anyone actually lose money and so they were able to come in with a fabricated fraud figure, and then they can just keep adding to it, fines, restrictions, without reason, pure political, pure fabricated nonsense.

      When they're imposing fines larger than the budget of some countries, for literally no crime... you better take note if you own any business, any assets at all, this is the America that will become the norm for all of us.

      Just give them a few more years... you'll be wishing you stood with Trump then, not because you like him, but because of what this really is... those in power are using their power and authority in the system to destroy all those who would oppose their remaining in control, doing whatever they want, without the People having any recourse... this is the End, total and complete, never have a fair or free election, never speak out against your government without fear of prosecution or death, End.

      1. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
        Kathleen Cochranposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

        Ken: I'm speechless. I have never heard so many words at once that are so far removed from reason. There. I came up with 16.

      2. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
        Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        " . . .those in power are using their power and authority in the system to destroy all those who would oppose their remaining in control, doing whatever they want, without the People having any recourse."

        Ken: Have you heard any of Trump's speeches and/or comments?

  6. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
    Kathleen Cochranposted 3 months ago

    Unbelievable. Some actually would excuse him shooting someone.

    They've lost their judgement.

  7. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 months ago

    Ah yes, as if courts have never ruled in such a manner when the plethora of evidence was certain to guarantee a finding.  Let us know when there's a legitimate explanation for increasing the actual square footage on an apartment to increase its value.  We'll wait...

  8. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 2 months ago

    There are many people who can read the court trials and see these verdicts for what they are...a travesty of justice in the highest degree.

    The E. Jean Caroll verdict was an absolute abomination of the justice system.  The evidence that wasn't permitted defined the entire trial as a joke.

    The recent fraud trial was just as bad.  Many New York developers have done the same things as President Donald Trump and some of even worse.  I hope real estate developers get the message since this is going to be a legal precedent in New York and leave that state along with the mass exodus of people running away from its corruption.

    When you add this to the russia hoax, bogus impeachments and the fbi handling of the classified documents one thing is obvious.

    We have a two tiered justice system.  The legal cases against President Donald Trump are some of the strongest evidence of it.

    Most of this can be categorized as election tampering and nothing more.

    I don't think the liberals understand their actions are only making him more popular.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image76
      Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Close to 4 years ago now, back when Credence and I were discussing who we preferred most... he wanted Warren and I wanted Tulsi... the one thing I made clear, was that Biden was the worst of ALL options.

      Biden was old-school DC corrupt, as dirty and dishonest as they come.

      Even I did not know just how bad he would be, how devastating to the nation and the world he would be... honestly, despite at one point in my life being in the thick of it... I had no idea it could get this depraved and openly diabolical.

      I had no idea that they could openly and blatantly do the things they are doing and America would tolerate it, that there would even be a chance of an Administration, and the Party that was behind it, even having a chance of keeping control when the next election rolled around.

      That to me is the most shocking thing of this all... despite the wars, not-seen-in-decades inflation, forcing transgenders into women's lives, supporting kids being mutilated, our border issues and openly using the FBI, DHS, and DOJ to go after Trump and anyone who supports him that they take note of... the vast majority of Americans should be outraged, infuriated, but they seem pretty OK with it all.

      The landslide against Biden should make what happened to Carter vs. Reagan look good in comparison... but I just don't see it... and if that proves to be true, the nation really has no hope of recovery until it hits rock bottom and suffers the type of collapse not seen since... well... the collapse of the USSR.  Total implosion and economic devastation.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        Ken, should we fail to secure victory in 2024, the repercussions will be swift and severe for both those who supported Biden and the broader populace. I anticipate a widespread outcry, albeit tardy like the leadership they chose. A day late and buck short.

        However, I really can imagine a majority would vote for Biden. He is frail, and you know my view of his cognitive state.

  9. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    More popular with the people that believe his many lies, that's for sure.  Especially since it's been proven beyond a doubt that the Trump Campaign was colluding with Russia - something no MAGA ever seems to have a problem with by the way.

    And the classified documents case was handled very well by the FBI when Trump lied that he had returned everything and was endangering our nation's secrets by showing them off at his golf clubs to people without clearances.  Their prize from Trump for executing a legal search warrant from the DOJ - a programmed Trump supporter showed up to their Cincinnati offices to commit a domestic terror attack on them, inspired by Trump's dangerous rhetoric.  Meanwhile, Pence and Biden both cooperated fully when they found they were in possession of such material. 

    The only travesty is that someone who often commits crimes can no longer hide behind his wealth and stature.  That he saturated himself in so many places in illegality that his comeuppance is due, with many of his crimes direct violations of election laws - meaning the man committed crimes to get elected and more crimes to try to illegally remain in office.  When these crimes are shown, he will cease to be popular with anyone outside his brainwashed cult.

    1. peoplepower73 profile image89
      peoplepower73posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      It just amazes me how Trumpers can excuse him for all his wrongdoings. They can rationalize his innocence by playing the What About game about Biden, and or use hypothetical scenarios as to why he acts and behaves the way he does. But in my view, I have always seen him as a master-con artist who suffers from malignant narcissism.

      Con-artist

      When a con artist is caught, their behavior can vary, but there are some common patterns to watch out for:

      Denial and Deflection:
      Many con artists initially deny any wrongdoing. They may claim they were misunderstood or that they are the real victims. They might deflect blame onto others, pointing fingers at accomplices or external circumstances.

      Charm Offensive:
      Con artists often rely on their charisma to manipulate people. When caught, they may turn on the charm to regain trust. They might apologize profusely, promise to make amends, and appeal to sympathy.

      Aggression and Threats:
      Some con artists become aggressive when cornered. They may lash out verbally or even physically. Threats of legal action, retaliation, or exposure of personal secrets are not uncommon.

      Disappearance or Reinvention:
      When the heat is on, con artists may disappear. They change identities, move to new locations, or go underground. Some reinvent themselves with new scams, hoping to avoid detection.

      Playing the Victim:
      Con artists may portray themselves as victims of circumstance. They spin elaborate stories of hardship or persecution. This tactic aims to evoke sympathy and distract from their own wrongdoing.

      Manipulative Communication:
      Even when caught, con artists continue to use manipulative communication. They might gaslight, twist facts, or create confusion to maintain control over the narrative.
      Remember that con artists are skilled at deception, and their behavior can be unpredictable. Being aware of these patterns can help you recognize and protect yourself from their tactics.

      Malignant Narcissist

      A malignant narcissist is an abusive person who derives pleasure from lying, manipulating, and using others to achieve their desires. Let’s explore the characteristics of malignant narcissism:

      Signs and Symptoms:

      Preoccupation with fantasies of beauty, brilliance, success, and power.
      Inability to handle criticism; they may lash out when feeling slighted.
      A dark side to their self-absorption, including aggression and manipulation.

      Traits of Malignant Narcissists:

      Extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial behavior, aggression, and sadism.
      Grandiose and always seeking to raise hostility levels.
      Undermines families and organizations, dehumanizing those around them.

      Behavioral Patterns:

      Jealous, petty, and thin-skinned.
      Punitive, hateful, cunning, and angry.
      Lash out or humiliate others even for minor infractions.
      Recognizing a malignant narcissist can help protect yourself from their harmful behavior.

      https://www.alternet.org/trump-con-man-2667304708/

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog … ent-really

      1. peoplepower73 profile image89
        peoplepower73posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        It just amazes me how Trumpers can excuse him for all his wrongdoings. They can rationalize his innocence by playing the What About game about Biden, and/or use hypothetical scenarios as to why he acts and behaves the way he does. But in my view, I have always seen him as a master-con artist who suffers from malignant narcissism.

        Con-artist

        When a con artist is caught, their behavior can vary, but there are some common patterns to watch out for:

        Denial and Deflection:
        Many con artists initially deny any wrongdoing. They may claim they were misunderstood or that they are the real victims. They might deflect blame onto others, pointing fingers at accomplices or external circumstances.

        Charm Offensive:
        Con artists often rely on their charisma to manipulate people. When caught, they may turn on the charm to regain trust. They might apologize profusely, promise to make amends, and appeal to sympathy.

        Aggression and Threats:
        Some con artists become aggressive when cornered. They may lash out verbally or even physically. Threats of legal action, retaliation, or exposure of personal secrets are not uncommon.

        Disappearance or Reinvention:
        When the heat is on, con artists may disappear. They change identities, move to new locations, or go underground. Some reinvent themselves with new scams, hoping to avoid detection.

        Playing the Victim:
        Con artists may portray themselves as victims of circumstance. They spin elaborate stories of hardship or persecution. This tactic aims to evoke sympathy and distract from their own wrongdoing.

        Manipulative Communication:
        Even when caught, con artists continue to use manipulative communication. They might gaslight, twist facts, or create confusion to maintain control over the narrative.
        Remember that con artists are skilled at deception, and their behavior can be unpredictable. Being aware of these patterns can help you recognize and protect yourself from their tactics.

        Malignant Narcissist

        A malignant narcissist is an abusive person who derives pleasure from lying, manipulating, and using others to achieve their desires. Let’s explore the characteristics of malignant narcissism:

        Signs and Symptoms:

        Preoccupation with fantasies of beauty, brilliance, success, and power.
        Inability to handle criticism; they may lash out when feeling slighted.
        A dark side to their self-absorption, including aggression and manipulation.

        Traits of Malignant Narcissists:

        Extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial behavior, aggression, and sadism.
        Grandiose and always seeking to raise hostility levels.
        Undermines families and organizations, dehumanizing those around them.

        Behavioral Patterns:

        Jealous, petty, and thin-skinned.
        Punitive, hateful, cunning, and angry.
        Lash out or humiliate others even for minor infractions.
        Recognizing a malignant narcissist can help protect yourself from their harmful behavior.

        https://www.alternet.org/trump-con-man-2667304708/

        https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog … ent-really

    2. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      There was a thing called the Mueller report.  "The report concludes that the investigation "did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities"

      If the classified document case was handled so well, biden would be in jail. They gave him a pass because he's an old man with a bad memory.  That is why they didn't pursue it.  biden couldn't remember when he was vice president or even when his son died of cancer.

      Using the justice system for election interference is a new low...even for democrats who I didn't believe he could sink any lower but always prove me wrong.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        And then there's the bipartisan Senate report on Russian Election Interference from two years later in 2020 that lays out the numerous meetings (Dates, times, and locations by the way) between Paul Manafort (Campaign Chair), Rick Gates (Deputy Campaign Chair) and Konstantin Kilimnik - a known Russia agent - where Manafort was giving the Russians internal polling data and campaign strategy.  Why can't you ever admit that that report exists, Mike?  Or do you deny that meeting with Russian agents and passing them campaign strategy and polling data is not colluding with them?  It's this kind of denial of reality that is the hallmark of being in the Trump cult.  It's irrefutable, and still they cling to their delusions.

        Biden is a sitting president.  Hur could not have charged him either way, so he invented some lame excuse.  Was the government even aware Biden had documents?  No.  They were aware that Trump did as some notable things were missing.  Hence the subpoena - a subpoena not given to Biden or Pence.  It's the defiance of the subpoena that got Trump in trouble.  No such subpoena existed for Pence or Biden.

        The justice system in this case was used to protect our nation's secrets.  Or do you not make the ridiculous claim that showing off classified documents at a golf club, as Trump is heard on tape doing, should be allowed?  The justice system is used to prosecute those that obstruct justice and willfully (as in defying a subpoena) try and retain classified documents.  That is not election interference - the investigation into these crimes happened long before Trump announced any intent to run for office again.  The claim that it is, is just the latest in the long line of MAGA delusions to try and play the victim.  Sorry, but victims don't commit the crimes first.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        The Mueller report, both Trump impeachments, the report ended in exoneration. The Democrats have always sunk very low...  However, they are really deep in mud at this point, i put nothing past them -- nothing

  10. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Ah yes, 'old school DC corrupt,' and yet there is no evidence of that claim whatsoever.  Just the latest conspiracy from people detached from reality.

    Then the ability to ignore the many causes of global inflation, that the large majority of families that make the choice to enter the transgender community do so with a positive outcome while distorting that choice as 'kids being mutilated' in the most uneducated manner possible, and then claiming Biden has had anything to do with our law enforcement holding lawless Trump and his supporters accountable to the law without a shred of evidence to support that conspiracy - all while most on the right believe Biden to be mental incapacitated.  Which is it?  Mentally not all there or evil genius able to coordinate a massive plot with GOP Secretaries of State to 'rig' an election and State Attorney Generals to indict his 2024 opponent.  We on the left get confused about which Joe Biden you guys believe is in charge with the two conflicting personas of Joe Biden.

    The doom and gloom that is preached here, and does not happen by the way as our economy was supposed to have been collapsed by now according to the same person who makes these ridiculous prognostications, is the hyperbole I posted about before the weekend that Bill Maher called out. 

    The right is in a constant state of fearmongering that it must be sad to live in their own lives.  I truly feel sorry for them, right up until they let that fear cause them to make terror threats or commit an act of violence against their own government as we have seen multiple times.  The things that the FBI, DHS, and DOJ are actually going after and that some in these forums seem intent on trying to defend as excusable based on party affiliation.  That's also sad, that someone sees party ahead of the laws of our land, but it's another form of the brainwashing they have been subjected to.  Their party are all victims who never broke a law.  While in reality, those that are being held to account have violated our laws.

    Either way, if someone needs to fearmonger about Biden, maybe they should start their own thread and do so there.  This one is about the many criminal trials about Donald J. Trump and the allegations that he broke many laws in many jurisdictions.

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      It's a shame those on the left embrace corruption and use it as a tool to achieve their goals.

      This is all they have.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        It's a shame that those on the right invent corruption of the left without any proof and try and defame others to achieve their goals.

        This is all they have, fabrications and delusions.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        In my view, it's the only tool they have. Biden and his administration have made such a mess of the country, and they know it. They look foolish to the entire world.

        1. Valeant profile image86
          Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          The only foolish people are the ones unable to acknowledge the strong recovery from the pandemic.  And that happens daily in here.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image87
            Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

            There's been no sign of recovery. Gas prices in Michigan are at $3.30 and climbing, along with increased costs in utilities, housing, home purchases, health insurance, cars (both new and used), groceries, travel, dining out, and even at Starbucks. This isn't a recovery; it feels more like a diversion tactic to distract from the real issues. I need not look any further than what I am now spending to know Biden ruined our economy, and he did it in record time... I must almost laugh if it were not so very sad.

            1. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              No sign of recovery?  Maybe you just cannot recognize any of the signs.  The jobs lost under Trump are back, plus millions more to bring unemployment down from that 6.3% to 3.7%, with many of those jobs being blue collar jobs thanks to an infrastructure package that the previous administration failed to pass despite the obvious need for one.  The stock market is hitting highs.  GDP has been above what both Trump and Obama were hitting.  That's not exactly a 'ruined' economy, and even Fox News pundits are giving the Biden administration credit for bringing down inflation numbers without causing a full-on recession. 

              Are there still price increases since pre-pandemic, sure.  That's still an issue.  But blaming Biden solely for those increases when supply chains had an effect, and those supply chains were damaged long before Biden came into office, is just partisan hyperbole and cultish behavior to be unable to admit some of the inflationary causes happened on Trump's watch.

              So the people who are laughing are the ones laughing at the asinine claims that Biden has 'ruined the economy,' because it is just not based in fact, but in delusion, like so many other MAGA claims these days.

        2. peoplepower73 profile image89
          peoplepower73posted 2 months agoin reply to this

          This is from Politico:

          Former President Donald Trump has long touted what he says are strong relationships with high profile leaders on the world stage, but they actually think he’s a ‘laughing fool, according to John Bolton, Trump’s former national security adviser.

          During the CNN town hall last week, Trump said he could end Russia’s war in Ukraine in one day if he wins reelection to the White House. The war never would have happened, Trump said, if he won a second term in 2020. That’s hard to believe on both counts, Bolton said.

          “I have been in those rooms with him when he met with those leaders, I believe they think he’s a laughing fool. And the idea that somehow his presence in office would have deterred Putin is flatly wrong,” he said on CNN Tuesday morning, naming the Russian, Chinese and North Korean leaders in particular.

          Trump also doesn’t “think in terms of winning and losing” when it comes to the war, the former president told host Kaitlan Collins during the town hall.

          That, combined with his insistence that he could negotiate with Putin to end the war in a day, “shows he’s utterly out of touch what the war is all about and what the implications of Russia’s aggression against Ukraine are all around the world,” Bolton said.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
            Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

            Mike, what Bolton said sounds sensible.                                         You very well know me and you are not talking as politicians.                                    Bolton, as someone within the inner circle of Trump, talk truth.                              Three decades ago, they was this late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, a Nigerian, shot for the Presidency of Nigeria. He promised 300 Nairas day one he become  Head of State and Government. But did Awo, won the presiddntial election? No. His country folks still demands it from his party governors. Awo died a year later. And that end the matter.                                    those who voted for the present Nigeria president thinks now that he was a deceiver, as he's yet to fulfilled the 'living wage' promise.

            1. Readmikenow profile image94
              Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              As I said before, John Bolton was fired from his position as National Security Advisor by President Donald Trump.

              He is an angry former employee.

              1. Willowarbor profile image61
                Willowarborposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                "He is an angry former employee."

                Or he is someone who had an extended daily view of Trump and is speaking out in service of the country? 
                I have absolutely no reason to disregard Bolton's insights.

                But let's not forget that Bolton says he planned to resign, even had a letter and Trump told him to wait until Monday... Then fired him. 

                But what about...

                Mark Esper: “I think he’s unfit for office. … He puts himself before country. His actions are all about him and not about the country. And then, of course, I believe he has integrity and character issues as well.”

                Rex Tillerson: “(Trump’s) understanding of global events, his understanding of global history, his understanding of US history was really limited. It’s really hard to have a conversation with someone who doesn’t even understand the concept for why we’re talking about this.”

                HR McMaster: “We saw the absence of leadership, really anti-leadership, and what that can do to our country.”.  "President Trump and other officials have repeatedly compromised our principles in pursuit of partisan advantage and personal gain.”


                John Kelly: “A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law. There is nothing more that can be said. God help us.”

                His first secretary of the Navy, Richard Spencer: “…the president has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices.”

                His White House lawyer, Ty Cobb: “Trump relentlessly puts forth claims that are not true.

                His first homeland security adviser, Tom Bossert: “The President undermined American democracy baselessly for months. As a result, he’s culpable for this siege, and an utter disgrace.”

                Former Attorney General Bill Barr compared Trump to a "defiant" child in a Sunday interview, saying the former president is "a consummate narcissist" and "a very petty individual who will always put his interests ahead of the country's."

                John Kelly said Trump "doesn't know any history at all, even some of the basics," 

                Fiona Hill "Some leaders, like President Erdogan of Turkey, would get angry in meetings or on calls when Trump obviously had no idea what they were talking about."
                "Trump's lack of knowledge and refusal to do his homework was a major liability for US national security"

                Mike Pompeo: "We need more seriousness, less noise, and leaders who are looking forward, not staring in the rearview mirror claiming victimhood.”

                Mike Pence: "He asked me to put him over the Constitution and I chose the Constitution, and I always will.”

                And these are the people that in the beginning, Trump called his "best people".    And this only scratches the surface.  It's hard for me to believe that all of them have an ax to grind. 

                Currently, Trump has shown us his compete lack of m character and morality by failing to condemn Putin's murder of Navalny.   Trump and MAGA are Putin/ Russia sympathizers and apologists.
                Navalny's death also serves  to highlight the increasing importance of aid to Ukraine that MAGA is holding up.

                MAGA Republicans’ hatred and contempt for Zelensky and the Ukrainian cause is shockingly vehement. Candace Owens says she wants to “punch” Zelensky. Donald Trump Jr. calls him an “international welfare queen.” Carlson says he dresses “like the manager of a strip club.”

                To MAGA, Putin isn’t just innocent; he’s admirable and heroic.  Wall Street journal summed it up MAGA and Trump  today in two words... Moral blindness.

                1. Readmikenow profile image94
                  Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  "Trump and MAGA are Putin/ Russia sympathizers and apologists."

                  I can honestly say I am not a putin/russia sympathizer and apologist.  Anybody who has read anything on this forum I've written on the topic will agree with that statement.

                  You've really not referenced anyone whose opinion I value.

                  I view this topic as one more vain attempt to smear President Donald Trump to get the attention off of the HUGE failings of biden and the democrat party.  It's called deflection.

                  There are many who can see this for what it is.  The left is now turning into a broken record.

                  Now IF the left showed the same level of concern for biden's connections with communist China and the corruption of him and his son, I may think they are objective.

                  I doubt democrats and the left will ever free themselves of their double standards and hypocrisy.

                  1. Willowarbor profile image61
                    Willowarborposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Now IF the left showed the same level of concern for biden's connections with communist China and the corruption of him and his son, I may think they are objective.

                    I have not seen Comer or Jordan present any such evidence.  The FBI informant, who they called "highly credible"  was just arrested and charged with 2 felony counts: one for making a false statement to a government agent and another for falsification of records in a federal investigation.

                    My question...did Comer know the guy was lying?  Or did he just not bother to fully validate the claims made by this man?  I mean Comer is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

                  2. Willowarbor profile image61
                    Willowarborposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    You know what's troubling for me? 

                    The fact that MAGA is simultaneously receiving help from Russian intelligence services (Smirnov) in their disinformation campaign against Biden and withholding support for Ukraine.  Throw in the fact that Trump is encouraging Russia to attack our allies while  refusing to condemn Putin for murdering Navalny.  MAGA'S  pro Putin, pro Russian stance is quite clear and extremely troubling

                    Today, Biden adds 500 sanctions against Russia.  That's what I want to see. 

                    I'm sickened by those in this country who make excuses for and praise Putin's murderous autocracy and are content with Russian expansionism.

                    Those who oppose aid to Ukraine may as well be in Putin's army.  He has made no secret that if Ukraine falls, Poland is next.  LOL he has blamed Poland for World war II. 

                    I don't want to see our country capitulating.  I want a boot on Putin's neck at all times...

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image67
                Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Roger that.

          2. Readmikenow profile image94
            Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

            Is this surprising since John Bolton was fired by President Donald Trump?

        3. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          Sharlee,

          Truth and reality are like kryptonite to democrats.  They run from it like cockroaches run from the light.

          The country is in bad shape right now.  The southern border is worse than it has ever been in the history of our country.  Inflation is way out of control and now there are two major wars happening.  People are buying much less because they can't afford it and businesses around the country are suffering.

          When you add this to the democrats corruption of the judicial system in order to interfere with an election, we live in scary times.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image87
            Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

            These are indeed frightening times... Yet, I maintain hope and faith in the American people. When faced with adversity, common sense prevails. One undeniable truth is that...

            There's been no sign of recovery. Gas prices are at heads up, and never did fall to what we were paying under Trump. All out-of-pocket costs are climbing, we see increased costs in utilities, housing,  buying a home, health insurance, cars (both new and used), groceries, travel, dining out, you name it.  This isn't a recovery, and these costs are here to stay.  This administration thinks they can play a shell game... Not working, not working at all.

      3. Ken Burgess profile image76
        Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        I don't think they get it, they are so obsessed with TDS and their obsession of taking control and power over everything they can't even see what they are doing.

        4 years ago I was happy to move on from Trump (but NOT to Biden... Tulsi, someone else rational, not the corrupt DC slimeball Biden).

        Now.... I could care less what Trump says... what he does... they have abused the system so much, they have made their abuse of power so obvious, it really doesn't matter, I will vote for him no matter what they find him "guilty" of.

        Hopefully enough of America sees what is going on and decides the same.

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          I am always shocked and stunned that they don't see these as show trials.

          The democrats have abused their corruption right now.  It is to the point that it is only benefiting President Donald Trump.

          He was found guilty of fraud when there was no victim.  All the banks who gave him loans were completely paid back.  How could he have committed a fraud when there was no victims and only satisfied business partners?

          It was a show trial and a huge perversion of the justice system.

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Split Biden? So they're  '2'  bidens? Which one is the sane  Head Of Government? Which is puppet...?

  11. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    I am in agreement about the malignant narcissism that is on full display with regards to Trump.  It doesn't really take training to see his behavior fits all the patterns.  And yet, that kind of mental disorder is not disqualifying for his cult.  Just the opposite, the cruelty is the point, I believe.  They have been programmed since the days of Gingrich to view their fellow Americans as the enemy, even siding with someone like Putin over our own country because he assists them in their goals.  The word traitor comes to mind to describe in this instance.

    Playing the victim might work with his base, but it's not going to help him explain away the many crimes he committed in a court of law.  The selective prosecution claim he made in the Florida case, the same one Mike bought into recently, ignores the many actions only Trump took, that neither Biden or Pence took, the ones that resulted in the crimes that are charged.

  12. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    'You've really not referenced anyone whose opinion I value.'

    We know.  There's only one opinion that MAGA values, and why we all think it's a cult.

    1. peoplepower73 profile image89
      peoplepower73posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      It's interesting that all the Trumpers on here voice their opinions, but without any sources.  While the dems seem to always present their sources. I know I always try to.

      The facts and the truth can smack them right in their faces, but they just always use, The What About Biden ploy and poor Trump he is so Victimized by those mean dems.

      They don't realize that playing the victim is the behavior of a con-man when they have been caught in their con. His malignant narcissisms is always on display.

      He just said that he is like Navalny.  Instead of feeling sorry for the man, he makes his death all about him.

      If he was a normal person, he would have accepted the fact that he lost the election to Biden and there would have been a peaceful transfer of power.

      But his malignant narcissism took over. Now he is trying to beat the clock, so that he becomes president and pardons himself from all his self imposed BS. I have always said he is his own worst enemy.

    2. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      "There's only one opinion that MAGA values, and why we all think it's a cult."

      It's strange but true.

      The English language has over a million words.  There is not one that truly expresses how much I don't care what the left thinks about anything.  I don't think there is a word in the English language that properly describes how dishonest and corrupt I find those on the left and the democrat party.

      Maybe there is something in old English or middle English, I don't know, I'd have to look into it.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        I know the word you're looking for.  Radicalized.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        I feel the two best words, in my opinion, to describe the democratic party are unscrupulousness and double-dealing.

  13. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Or you could be a Trump appointee and just fabricate the evidence against Democrats as Hunter's lawyers have proved:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLmmNs69c8

  14. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    That Ken believes there was anything normal about a Trump presidency is one of the greatest rewrites of history ever. 

    Trump obstructed justice to protect a nation that attacked our elections in 2016.  His lack of education helped usher in a global pandemic that decimated economies, led to a rise in crime, and is one of the main causes of the flood of immigrants to our southern border from Central America. 

    There's nothing normal about a net-negative jobs gain or $7.9 trillion added to the country's national debt in just one presidential term.  There certainly is nothing normal about coddling murderous dictators and alienating allies on the world stage. 

    Trump was an embarrassment as a president and violated our laws to become elected and to try and remain in power, even organizing and inciting a domestic terror attack on his own Congress because they dared to do their duty and certify his election loss.  To many Americans, the enforcement of our sedition laws is more than warranted based on the actions that were taken by Trump and his followers and their domestic terror threats and attacks against their own nation.

    So yes, this is about Trump as a person.  The person that is Donald Trump is alleged to have violated his oath to the Constitution in multiple ways and he will get to have his day in court to prove otherwise.

  15. Sharlee01 profile image87
    Sharlee01posted 2 months ago

    I thoroughly enjoyed the Hannity interview featuring Alan Dershowitz, finding his expertise in law particularly intriguing, especially in relation to the New York fraud case against Trump. His insights lent a compelling perspective to what seemed like a "trumped" up case. Sounds as if Letitia put her foot in her mouth.

    "Letitia James ought to be brought up before the bar: Alan Dershowitz"
    https://www.foxnews.com/video/6347058557112
    https://theamericantribune.com/alan-der … m=facebook

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      She was campaigning for the position of attorney general.  Certainly, the same standards that protect political speech should apply to candidate Leticia James.  Maybe Dershowitz should brush up on the laws regarding political speech and what is allowed.

    2. tsmog profile image85
      tsmogposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Sounds to me a like a campaign to sell a book.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        It's possible. Prior to Trump's presidency, his statements were often regarded as trustworthy and authoritative. However, it appears that a portion of the population now questions or disagrees with many of his remarks. I might be showing my age, but I still hold the belief that he excels in matters related to constitutional law, which is an area where I think he shines.

    3. peoplepower73 profile image89
      peoplepower73posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Dershowitz is focusing on there were no damages, therefore, there is no case.  However, he is not being fined for damages, he is being fined because of fraud.  He committed fraud for years by inflating the price of his assets to get bigger loans from the banks. 

      The judge ruled when powerful people cheat to get better loans, it comes at the expense of honest and hardworking people. Everyday Americans cannot lie to a bank to get a mortgage to buy a home, and if they did, our government would throw the book at them.

      There simply cannot be different rules for different people. No one is above the law, including Trump, although he may thinks he is.

      https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2024/at … nald-trump

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        "He committed fraud for years by inflating the price of his assets to get bigger loans from the banks."

        This is something that is done by real estate developers all over the country.  Banks don't usually care as long as the loan gets repaid.

        So, there were no victims and President Donald Trump is found guilty of something that is done on a daily basis by all real estate developers.

        This was another kangaroo court.  The judge only wanted to punish President Donald Trump.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        "He committed fraud for years by inflating the price of his assets to get bigger loans from the banks. "

        It's surprising that many seem unaware of the thorough scrutiny involved in large bank loans. Banks meticulously assess the borrower's background, the collateral offered, and the details of any real estate ventures being funded. It's notable that despite this level of scrutiny, no bank has come forward to accuse Trump of fraud. This fact seems to be overlooked by many.

        "There simply cannot be different rules for different people. No one is above the law, including Trump, although he may thinks he is."

        How can you be certain that the banks suffered harm? Or that they treated Trump unfairly? No complaints or accusations of fraud have been brought forward by any of them. The evidence indicates that he fulfills his obligations under individual loan agreements. Therefore, your assertion appears to be more of a personal opinion. Personally, I tend to value the informed perspective of Alan Dershowitz on this matter.

        It's concerning to observe a diminishing sense of common sense among certain individuals in today's society. It's important to recognize that banks, both domestically and internationally, conduct thorough evaluations of every aspect of a loan before granting millions to any borrower.

        I don't mean to offend, but I'm genuinely surprised that you seem to have embraced this perspective.

        1. Valeant profile image86
          Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          You're right, the banks did not allege fraud, the state did.  If every person was allowed to file fraudulent documents to receive more favorable loan terms, the system could end up crashing due to the volatility created by securing loans that are at greater risk of default.  That is the harm that this case seeks to avoid in the future.

          The mere filing of fraudulent documents in itself violates state laws.  The fact that the loan was repaid is immaterial to the violation of the law in this case.

          1. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

            I found this to be an interesting case.  Fraud was committed (apparently by exaggerating the size of the real estate), but there was no harm done and no one got hurt. 

            The bank failed miserably in it's duty to examine the property and get it's own evaluation of the value, but there was still no harm done.

            So how did the court come up with the fine?  Pull it out of a hat?  $350,000,000 seems like quite a bit given no one was harmed.

            1. Ken Burgess profile image76
              Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              That is false, it was standard procedure, the norm for Real Estate transactions.

              That is why so many people are freaking out over it, the typically non-political persons that only pay attention to how it impacts their ability to make money and protect their assets.

              They no likey what they are seeing.

              1. Valeant profile image86
                Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                It's not the norm to misclassify real estate (social club versus private residence) as Trump did with Mar-a-Lago to then inflate by unrealistic figures.  It's not the norm to overstate the size of real estate and then prevent people from doing an actual audit of their own to verify it for themselves.

            2. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              The figure was arrived at by tabulating how much Trump received in 'ill-gotten' gains through his fraud:

              https://reason.com/2024/02/19/how-a-jud … nst-trump/

              From the article, near the end:
              The difference between the interest rates that lenders charged based on Trump's personal financial guarantee and the rates they would have charged without it was crucial to Engoron's calculation of how much the defendants should disgorge. Over their vigorous objections, he accepted the numbers offered by a state witness, investment bank CEO Michiel McCarty, who compared the rate that Deutsche Bank charged the Trump Organization based on Trump's personal guarantee with the rate it proposed for a loan without that guarantee. By McCarty's calculation, the Trump Organization saved a total of about $168 million in interest on loans for four projects.

              By itself, that estimate accounts for nearly half of the disgorgement that Engoron ordered. He also included nearly $127 million in "net profits" from the 2022 sale of the Old Post Office in Washington, D.C., which Trump had converted into a hotel. That deal, James argued, was facilitated "through the use of false SFCs," without which it would not have happened. She also argued that "without the ill-gotten savings on interest rates, defendants would not even have been able to invest in the Old Post Office and/or other projects."

              1. wilderness profile image94
                wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Wow.  Just wow.  No damage done, but the judge raised the interest rate (which the bank did not get) and took the profit from a contract (which the buyer did not get, either). 

                Yes, the "justice" system is alive and well, although not concerned much about "justice".

                1. Valeant profile image86
                  Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  No damage done?  The banks might not have alleged damage, but the difference between the interest rates charged (and those that Trump should have only been eligible for without the fraudulent financial statements) certainly allowed Trump to profit from his fraud.  Any time you make profit from fraud, that's certainly an injustice.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image87
                    Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Banks conduct property appraisals before granting collateral loans. This appraisal helps the bank determine the value of the property being used as collateral and assess its suitability for securing the loan. By appraising the property, the bank can ensure that it is worth an amount sufficient to cover the loan amount in case the borrower defaults. This practice helps mitigate risks for the lender and provides assurance that the collateral has adequate value to support the loan.

                    This is just a fact. If a bank finds a problem with the owner's appraisal of a given property they would address it if they felt it necessary. The bank makes the final decision to loan.

                  2. wilderness profile image94
                    wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Again, it is the banks responsibility to verify whatever Trump gave them.  They chose not to; therefore they lost nothing.  Same with the buyer of his property; they were happy with the price and therefore lost nothing.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image87
            Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

            So, you're suggesting that banks lack qualified individuals to assess collateral property? Frankly, I find that notion quite amusing. Have you ever been in a situation where you needed to secure a substantial loan with property? Let me assure you, that before any loan involving property is granted, thorough evaluations are conducted by experienced professionals. Moreover, lenders wouldn't approve a loan unless they were confident in the potential for profitable returns. It's perplexing how, whether discussing a sensitive issue like a rape case or a fraudulent scheme, self-proclaimed experts seem to emerge, armed with nothing more than a "diploma" from Google University. While I also utilize Google for information, I make a point to reference sources with credibility—those with identifiable names and faces—when asserting expertise.

            As I mentioned, I prioritize Derchewitz's expertise and perspective over that of anyone else, including myself or other contributors in this forum.

            1. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              And yet, instead of looking at the actual case testimony, where the thorough evaluation (including access to the apartment as well as access to its blueprints), was denied, you rely on your Google degree to listen to the biased and paid legal rantings of Dershowitz on the Hannity show. 

              It's perplexing how self-proclaimed experts on topics rely on people being paid to give an opinion in the media as opposed to the experts testifying under oath where truth and honesty matters, as opposed to giving opinions (whether they be true or false as we have seen with Fox News) that will lead to ratings.

              1. Readmikenow profile image94
                Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Experience has taught me that "experts" are always paid to testify in court.  Trust me, you can get an "expert" to go to court and agree with anything you say for the right price.  I wonder how much these experts were paid.

                1. Valeant profile image86
                  Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  The experts that testified that they were denied the right to appraise Trump's apartment on site or be given the blueprints?  That's not really an agreement/disagreement type of question, now is it?

                  1. Readmikenow profile image94
                    Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    "given the blueprints"

                    Are you kidding me?

                    ALL the blueprints for any building must be approved by the planning commission.  They have copies of such blueprints.  If these experts didn't know how to get copies of blueprints from the planning commission, they really lack a lot of expertise.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image87
                Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Based on my experience with utilizing property for loan applications, it seems evident to me that you may not be well-versed in how banks typically handle loan approvals. However, everyone is entitled to their perspective.

                I'd appreciate it if you could provide a source confirming the statement you made about the denial of thorough evaluation in the actual case testimony, particularly regarding access to the apartment and its blueprints. As for the situation with the bank, was any legal action pursued, or was the loan simply repaid? It's widely understood that banks rarely incur losses unless bankruptcy is involved.

                Do you believe that all experts showcased in other media outlets don't receive compensation for their insights? Take Dershowitz, for instance. He's retired from teaching at Harvard Law. Do you think he wasn't remunerated for sharing his expertise during his tenure?

                I'm curious about the evidence you mentioned. So far, I've only encountered allegations from James regarding Trump and the Trump Organization's purported false valuation of assets, which they allegedly misrepresented to financial institutions for personal gain. However, I haven't come across any evidence from banks or loan institutions indicating issues with Trump's loans.

                1. Valeant profile image86
                  Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  I have not personally had to use property as loan collateral, but have followed this case pretty well.  I've already provided the link to the information you're asking for in this thread about access that was denied to Trump's apartment, in a response to Mike. 

                  And the difference between media outlets, where truth is not a requirement, and testimony under oath are two different things in my view.  That you see them as equal in credibility is apparently something we view differently.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image87
                    Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    I find Dechewitz very credible. I will check the thread for the link. Thank you

                    Edit --- found the link that did provide information on an appraiser being denied the blueprints of Trump's apartment in Trump Tower.

              3. wilderness profile image94
                wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                The answer is very simple: if the bank is denied access to the property they don't make a loan.  They chose to do so anyway - perhaps bank officials should be up on charges for not carrying out their fiduciary duties to stockholders.

                1. Valeant profile image86
                  Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  Maybe they should.  But that does not excuse Trump from filing fraudulent financial forms - which automatically breaks New York laws, and which every MAGA person in here keeps trying to excuse in some way.

                  1. wilderness profile image94
                    wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Sorry - haven't seen a single person "excuse" it, not even I.

                    Although I do question such a huge fine when no one was harmed and all contracts were completed as written.  No one even complained, but the judge evidently thought NY needed some extra cash.

    4. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      If America is like this under the Dem by politicsing the Courts and the Judges, then America, is no good a democracy. Or democracy is being sold to the cheapest bidder because of one man called Trump.                                      Significantly, America, is the mother of democracy. She brought  it  from the Greeks, Britain, and France, and then fine tone it to the rest of the world.                               Significantly too, what the law professor has noted in the trail case, is lamentably.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image87
        Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        In my view, my country has been hijacked. I can only hope to see it get back on the right track soon...  Our great experiment may be failing. It will be up to Americans to choose a path.

  16. tsmog profile image85
    tsmogposted 2 months ago

    Was poking about and discovered the website Lawfare that gives a particular focus to the Trump Trials with a promise to keep it updated. It looks thorough and is updated. There is a calendar available for what is expected to occur. For instance, tomorrow will be pretrial motions for the Southern District of Florida. Currently the trial date is May 20. They also have a docket watch for the different trials. You can see everything at that link past and present.

    A Guide to Trump's Trials
    https://www.lawfaremedia.org/current-pr … ump-trials

  17. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    If you had the GOP fearmongering moment of the day coming before noon, congrats, you win today's prize.

  18. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Not nearly as amusing as watching MAGA always trying to pin the blame for Trump's crimes on someone other than their cult leader.  As soon as he filed fraudulent financials where he made up his own valuations from thin air, he was in violation of New York law.

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      If everyone in New York who did this was arrested...the jails would be overflowing.

      Again New York shows its double standards and hypocrisy.

      Is it any wonder businesses and people are leaving that state at a high rate?  Businesses who have been there hundreds of years are leaving.  Now, big real estate developers are leaving.

      It's a shame what democrats have done to the state.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        If everyone who committed fraud on the scale and frequency of Trump, the jails might have a few more people.  Since 2015, New York has filed charges 9,800 times for filing fraudulent business records.  This is not the double standard or hypocrisy that you claim it to be.  Maybe some basic research before making such a claim.

  19. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Ken seems to want to rewrite history again and act as if these social issues are new under Biden.  And considering the recent claims to have bought into 2020 election fraud, not sure there should any lecturing about what is reality. 

    In the reality of many on the right, including a few names that post in these forums, no one from MAGA has committed domestic terror threats, nor violence against their own government.  Their chosen candidate was not found liable by a jury of his peers for defamation and sexually abusing a woman based on multiple pieces of evidence - evidence they cannot bring themselves to acknowledge.  Those realities are not reality at all, but delusion.

    Ken continues to try and deflect away from the topic of this thread to express his own beliefs about what the 2024 election should be about.  His misunderstanding of the transgendered issue being one of the hallmarks of that deflection.

    What's on the ballot for others in 2024 is democracy.  In not electing someone who tried to overturn the 2020 election.  Women's rights to body autonomy continue to be on the ballot.  And decency continues to be on the ballot, where many feel that someone found by a jury of their peers to have committed rape does not belong anywhere near elected office.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Good thing Trump was not "found by a jury of their peers" to have committed rape, isn't it?  Of course, the verdict will be twisted into something it wasn't by those out to get Trump for anything from jaywalking to treason...

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        Actually, sexual abuse in New York is the equivalence to rape, this according to the judge in the case who stated that very thing.  Wish you guys would come to terms with that instead of continually lying about it.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          Yeah, you have said that before.  Wish you would quit putting your own words onto the court verdict.

  20. Willowarbor profile image61
    Willowarborposted 2 months ago

    I would encourage MAGA folks to read the Engoron decision.  He very meticulously documented how everything Trump does is based on consistent and shameless cheating, deceiving, falsifying documents, and lying.

    He  dissects dozens of lies told at trial not just by Trump, his three oldest children, and two Trump Organization executives but by a host of supposedly expert witnesses. 

    Some quotes from the ruling..

    On the scope of Trump’s misdeeds:

    “United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously, or infamously, declared that he could not define pornography, but that he knew it when he saw it. The frauds found here leap off the page and shock the conscience.”

    On the reaction of Trump and his adult sons:

    “Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again. This is a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Defendants did not commit murder or arson. They did not rob a bank at gunpoint. Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff. Yet, defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways. Instead, they adopt a ‘See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil’ posture that the evidence belies.”

    On being confronted with their misdeeds:

    “In order to borrow more and at lower rates, defendants submitted blatantly false financial data to the accountants, resulting in fraudulent financial statements. When confronted at trial with the statements, defendants’ fact and expert witnesses simply denied reality, and defendants failed to accept responsibility or to impose internal controls to prevent future recurrences.”

    On the severity of the penalty:

    “In considering the need for ongoing injunctive relief, this Court is mindful that this action is not the first time the Trump Organization or its related entities has been found to have engaged in corporate malfeasance. Of course, the more evidence there is of defendants’ ongoing propensity to engage in fraud, the more need there is for the Court to impose stricter injunctive relief. This is not defendants’ first rodeo.”

    On Trump’s credibility:

    “Donald Trump professed to ‘know more about real estate than other people’ and to be ‘more expert than anybody else.’ He repeatedly falsified business records with the intent to defraud.”

    On Trump as a witness:

    “Overall, Donald Trump rarely responded to the questions asked, and he frequently interjected long, irrelevant speeches on issues far beyond the scope of the trial. His refusal to answer the questions directly, or in some cases, at all, severely compromised his credibility.”

    On Ivanka Trump’s “suspect” memory lapses:

    On direct examination by plaintiff, Ivanka Trump had no recollection of any of the events that gave rise to this action; no number of emails or documents with her signature served to refresh her recollection. Notably, on cross-examination by defendants’ counsel, Ms. Trump suddenly and vividly recalled details of the projects and her interactions with [Deutsche Bank’s Rosemary] Vrablic.”

    Ivanka Trump was a thoughtful, articulate, and poised witness, but the Court found her inconsistent recall, depending on whether she was questioned by OAG or the defense, suspect. In any event, what Ms. Trump cannot recall is memorialized in contemporaneous emails and documents; in the absence of her memory, the documents speak for themselves.

    On the “everybody does it” defense.

    “Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that ‘everybody does it’ is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules. Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time; the next group of lenders to receive bogus statements might not be so lucky. New York means business in combating business fraud.”

    Read the opinion.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image87
      Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      While the Engoron decision may present a damning portrayal of Trump's actions and those of his associates, it's essential to approach such conclusions with a critical eye and consider the broader context. This decision represents one perspective within a complex legal and political landscape, and it's important not to take its assertions as absolute truth without examining the evidence and counterarguments.

      I feel it's crucial to recognize that legal decisions are subject to interpretation and are not immune to bias or political influence. While Judge Engoron may have meticulously documented instances of deceit and fraud, it's essential to remember that legal judgments can reflect the opinions and biases of the presiding judge.

      Moreover, the language used in the decision, such as comparing Trump's actions to pornography and questioning the sincerity of his remorse, suggests a degree of personal disdain that may color the judge's assessment. Such emotive language risks undermining the impartiality of the decision and may reflect a broader political agenda rather than purely legal considerations. Not cool...

      While the decision may highlight instances of dishonesty it's important to consider whether these actions rise to the level of criminality or if they represent common practices within the business world. The fact that Trump and his associates may have engaged in questionable behavior does not necessarily prove criminal intent or warrant the severity of the penalties imposed.

      The judge's decision's focus on Trump's credibility and the behavior of his family members, such as Ivanka Trump, may distract from the substantive legal issues at hand. While inconsistencies in testimony are certainly relevant, they should not overshadow the central legal questions concerning fraud and corporate malfeasance.

      So, while the Engoron decision presents a damning indictment of Trump's actions and those of his associates. In my view,  it's essential to approach such judgments with skepticism and to consider the broader context and potential biases at play. Ultimately, the truth of these allegations may only be fully understood through a thorough examination of the evidence and legal proceedings, rather than through the lens of any single Judge's decision.

      1. peoplepower73 profile image89
        peoplepower73posted 2 months agoin reply to this

        Here is the 92 page court document from Arthur F. Engoron, Justice

        It just blows my mind how Trumpers can rationalize and make excuses for the innocence of Trump in all the criminal cases he has been involved in.

        After presiding over a non-jury trial that began on October 2, 2023, and ended on December 13, 2023, with closing arguments on January 11, 2024, this Court makes the following findings of fact and conclusions of law and issues this Decision and Order:

        This is everything that you want to know about the court proceedings.  It makes for great reading. I read the parts that I thought were germane to Trump and companies guilt.

        https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/d … cision.pdf

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          Don't be surprised if this gets overturned on appeal.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image87
          Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

          I want to clarify that I wasn't contesting the verdict; rather, I aimed to introduce an alternative perspective to further the discussion on this political platform. Additionally, I previously shared Alen Derchewitz's viewpoint on the matter to foster further dialogue.  It's possible that my intended context wasn't fully conveyed in my comment. While I've examined the judge's decision, I'm refraining from offering an opinion beyond what I've already stated.

          From my perspective, I do believe that judges can sometimes exhibit clear bias, as evidenced by my earlier detailed comment. However, in the spirit of fair play, I don't intend to share my assessment of the judge or the verdict. I can assure you I reviewed the ruling.

      2. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        “Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that ‘everybody does it’ is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules."

        This makes me laugh.  They never worry about striving for honesty and transparency...until they can use this against President Donald Trump.  THEN all of a sudden honesty and transparency matter.

        Puh-Leeeeese!

        What a bunch of pathetic hypocrites!

        Ah, New York at it's best I guess.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image87
          Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

          From my perspective, New York is rife with corruption. They have a knack for swiftly changing laws to suit their agenda, as seen with the Adult Survivor Act. Carroll filed a lawsuit against Trump shortly after the enactment of this act in May 2023. One must commend them for their adeptness at pulling off such underhanded schemes.  I think that ploy was very obvious to anyone with a one-brain cell.

      3. Ken Burgess profile image76
        Ken Burgessposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        So very true, and why precedence and standard business practices (in this case) matter.



        This to, is open to inspection and interpretation, deceit requires a known effort, so does the claim of fraud.

        Fraud is a deliberate act (or failure to act) with the intention of obtaining an unauthorized benefit, either for oneself or for the institution.

        At the same time, it IS the responsibility of those acting on behalf of a corporation or institution or individual to try and get the best out of negotiations for that entity.

        There are accepted practices, especially within the Real Estate sector, that are common practices and with this ruling the Judge has made NY very risky, facere non.

        1. Willowarbor profile image61
          Willowarborposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          This to, is open to inspection and interpretation, deceit requires a known effort, so does the claim of fraud.

          I am confident that this judge understands, completely, the regulations and laws he interprets to determine his rulings.  Certainly much more than the general public. But Trump has the right to appeal and have the ruling scrutinized.

  21. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 2 months ago

    Seems to me that States or New York laws are inconsistent with Federal laws in America.                                         How can attemped rape (without penetration) be equated to an actual rape that results in with straight penetration? This shows the inconsistency of the  NY law with tha American Constitution, except there's no enactment on that.

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      The bigger question is how can a woman claim rape 26 years after it happened.
      She claimed to have a dress to prove it.  Unfortunately for her, the dress she mentioned hadn't been available for purchase until a few years after the alleged rape.
      How can a judge prevent a jury from seeing an interview in a major newspaper with the victim where she claims there was no rape.  How can a judge prevent a jury from seeing a video interview of the alleged victim where she claims that rape is sexy and more.
      How can a jury determine there has been a rape when there is no proof.  No direct evidence.  Just hear say evidence.
      New York's judicial system is very corrupt.  This case illustrates it more than others.
      Won't be surprised if it is overturned on appeal.

    2. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
      Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Mie: If I were an attempted rape victim, I think I'd be severely traumatized by the attempt to violate me whether the attacker completed the assault or not.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
        Miebakagh57posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Kathleen, I agree with your feelings. Your description is what rape is.                                      However, the scenario of penetration and the emission of sperms is evidential in law.

  22. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Trump files request for 30-day extension, but gives no reasons.  Engoron denies the request.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V3t-cwR4pQ

    In the classified documents case, Trump's lawyers file a motion that might get them sanctioned because it's that ridiculous:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqCYsY9kQ3U

  23. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Trump's latest laughable move falls flat.  In essence, he tried to change the Trump Organization's addresses to Florida to make it harder for New York to take his money.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD5Crb5zPsA

  24. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
    Kathleen Cochranposted 2 months ago

    Miebakagh57: Google: Navalny for all the details in this extensive topic.

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Kathleen, I appreciated that. Will do.

  25. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Speaking of Florida, Jack Smith proposed a July 8th trial while Trump's attorneys counted with an August 12th date.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqDCqlEFKms

    And Marc Elias, famed voting rights attorney, notes that while DOJ policy is to pause any investigations in the months prior to a presidential election, he states that criminal cases do not need to follow those guidelines.  He sees no reason why there can't be a trial that goes into the later fall months.

  26. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 2 months ago

    The Court Judges are not dummy. Their can reconcil and set a convenient date.

  27. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Trump posted the $91 million bond to appeal the E. Jean Carroll ruling.  Let's see if anyone finds the source of that funding in the upcoming weeks.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image87
      Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

      WOW! I did not feel he would appeal... one could think of him as a man who will fight to prove he feels he is not guilty. It will be interesting to see what PAC picks up the fees. I am pretty sure one of his PACs will pay.

      I don't feel he can win an appeal in New York, seems senseless. Not sure if this form of civil case could ever make it's way to the Supreme Court.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        I thought he would, just to see if he could get the amount reduced.  Just didn't think he could find that much money as I doubted he has much liquidity.

      2. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        In an appellate court the goal is not to determine guilt or innocence, but to make certain the law was properly applied.

        President Donald Trump has a very good chance at winning an appeal.  The evidence that would benefit him not being permitted to be presented to the jury should be the reason he wins an appeal.

        The decision could be overturned, the award reduced or eliminated.  A new trial could also be granted.

        E. Jean Carroll can't touch the money until the appeals are finished.

        We shall see.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
          Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

          Admitly.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image87
          Sharlee01posted 2 months agoin reply to this

          Thanks, I will admit I have lost my way in figuring out all the legal stuff facing Trump. I do give him credit for continuing to fight the many charges.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
            Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

            This stuborn Trump must fight on...and don't give up! Fight on Trump, fight.

            1. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
              Kathleen Cochranposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              Mie: How about we send Trump to your country?

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
                Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Kathleen, is Ex-President Donald Trump a Nigerian citizen? Nope.                                     Does Ex-President Trump holds a Nigerian citizenship paper? Nope.                                                   So your assumption on probablity is wrong.                                               If you had read me correctly, you would have know that I'm not supporting any wrong doing.                                Seriously, I've said Trump, should be tried for any wrong doing up to the USA Supreme Court. And that is done. And is being done. Trump is a winner for the presidential ballat. Thanks for labeling me Mie. I am.

                1. tsmog profile image85
                  tsmogposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  Whoosh!

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
                    Miebakagh57posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Whoosh? He eh ah! He eh ee.

                  2. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
                    Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                    Nice to know that Mie. smile

            2. Readmikenow profile image94
              Readmikenowposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              You are the best!

  28. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 months ago

    Government filing today in Florida:

    “During his presidency, Trump used dozens of boxes to accumulate and store records in an informal filing system,” they added. “At the end of his presidency in January 2021, around 85 to 95 of these boxes were removed from the White House and transported to Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s residence in Palm Beach, Florida, where they were later placed in a storage room.”

    In 2021, the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) had discussions with Mr Trump regarding the documents.

    “Trump wanted to review his boxes before providing them to NARA, and employees (including Nauta) brought two to four at a time to his personal residence in Mar-a-Lago for him to review,” the Department of Justice said in the filing. “After the employees (including Nauta) brought about 15 to 17 boxes, Trump instructed them to stop, and on January 17, 2022, employees handed over 15 boxes to NARA.”

    “Trump indicated to his staff that the 15 boxes were the only boxes that would be going to NARA and that there were no more, and he instructed an employee to tell one of his lawyers there were no more boxes at Mara-Lago,” they added. “But about 70 to 80 boxes remained in the storage room.”

  29. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 7 weeks ago

    Trump's lawyer is in court arguing that it is legal to lie to the government if it is in service of core political speech and acts.  By this argument, a 21-year old could lie that he is 35 in order to run for office.  In that regard, it fails on its face.

  30. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 7 weeks ago

    Another great point raised by mainstream media today.  In Georgia, Trump is arguing that his speech should be protected by the First Amendment as it was political speech related to a campaign.  Meanwhile, in DC, his lawyers are arguing that his actions should be protected because he was acting in his official role as President.

    Which is it?  Candidate or Commander in Chief?

    1. Sharlee01 profile image87
      Sharlee01posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      I must confess, I find the multitude of court cases involving Trump quite perplexing, particularly in relation to free speech issues. I'm simply entrusting the judges to navigate through these complex matters and make appropriate rulings.

    2. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      There may be a difference between free speech and actions as president.

  31. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 6 weeks ago

    Trump's lawyers post motion to dismiss his NY case due to too much pre-trial coverage from the media.  One day after he posts 77 times on Truth Social.  Considering he is the one driving the pre-trial media coverage, this motion is doomed.

    Also today, the NY DA posts motion to further restrict Trump's gag order to include the family of court staff since Trump even posted a photo of the judge's daughter in a clear case of stochastic terrorism.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image87
      Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Can't help but wonder where these cases will go.  The rhetoric is not productive, and hopefully, judges will push the cases along. I hope to have conclusions and see evidence before the election.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Glad you're not on board with drawing negative attention, which could lead to violence, towards the daughter of a judge.  What kind of person attacks the daughter or wife of a person, by the way?  And how do people bring themselves to support someone who engages in that kind of conduct, repeatedly.

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

          So, tell me the words President Donald Trump used?

          "Trump pointed to Merchan’s daughter’s work in progressive politics, and a social media account that he claims is hers, as evidence that it is “completely impossible” for him to get a “fair trial.”

          “Maybe the Judge is such a hater because his daughter makes money by working to ‘Get Trump,’ and when he rules against me over and over again, he is making her company, and her, richer and richer,” Trump wrote. “How can this be allowed?”

          Trump appeared to be referencing a social media account on X, which Authentic had previously associated with Merchan’s daughter.

          As recently as Wednesday, that X account featured as its profile photo an edited headshot of Trump behind metal bars. As of Wednesday afternoon, that profile photo had been changed to a childhood photo of Vice President Kamala Harris. Harris had shared that photo on social media during a 2019 Democratic primary debate, shortly after she attacked then-rival Biden over his record on busing.

          Merchan’s daughter “represents Crooked Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Adam ‘Shifty’ Schiff, and other Radical Liberals, [and] has just posted a picture of me behind bars, her obvious goal,” Trump claimed.

          “So, let me get this straight, the Judge’s daughter is allowed to post pictures of her ‘dream’ of putting me in jail, the Manhattan D.A. is able to say whatever lies about me he wants, the Judge can violate our Laws and Constitution at every turn, but I am not allowed to talk about the attacks against me, and the Lunatics trying to destroy my life, and prevent me from winning the 2024 Presidential Election, which I am dominating?” he wrote."

          Liberal lunacy at its best.

          1. Valeant profile image86
            Valeantposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            The lunacy is that that account was not hers.  And yet the MAGA morons buy the latest lies he's selling, ones that direct attention to his followers, some who have committed violence against his perceived enemies in the past.  Trump is a stochastic terrorist and then we get to listen to his followers, ones that attended the January 6 rally specifically, try and defend that stochastic terrorism.

            Give us a break.

  32. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 6 weeks ago

    Georgia judge rejects First Amendment dismissal argument:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPJQiJAWsvU

  33. Credence2 profile image78
    Credence2posted 6 weeks ago

    More bullsh!t?

    The Chief Executive cannot be free to commit crimes while in office. Where would we all be? It is beyond stupidity that such a matter can even be discussed among sane people. Presidential Immunity, MY FOOT.

    Trump is full of it and he won't get away with it this time.

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Think of Trump's defense in the New York case.  He's arguing that he should not be held criminally liable for the crime, not because he didn't do the crime, but because he did it while President. 

      That says all one needs to know.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
        Miebakagh57posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

        Trump as President, is a human beimg. He's subject to do wrong.

  34. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 6 weeks ago

    https://hubstatic.com/16983367_f1024.jpg

  35. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 4 weeks ago

    Seven jurors selected in the New York trial.  Five more and then six alternates until opening statements.

  36. Credence2 profile image78
    Credence2posted 4 weeks ago

    I think back on the Clinton years and the trouble he got into with the inappropriate dalliance with the intern back in 97. The Republicans wanted to impeach him for lying to congress as if Clinton's behavior, that between consenting adults, rose to the high crimes and misdemeanor standards for impeachment and conviction. This is just another reason that Trump's dumb idea that he could only be held accountable for crimes committed in office by a clearly partisan legislative body's use of the impeachment process, is a non starter. This must be handled by standard courts and juries. It is a dumb idea, worthy of Trump.

    And now we have a man with Presidential ambitions on trial for sexual assault and harassment charges that would make Clinton look like a rote amateur. Yet, the Republicans hardly raise an eyebrow. Can I give any credibility to those that advocate on their behalf? Not really.


    Just my opinion.....

    Pretty exhaustive account....

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_ … llegations

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      Are you confusing an impeachment with a trial before a judge/jury?

      You should not - one is a purely political show and the other part of our justice system.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
        Miebakagh57posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        And in spite of all these troubles, Trump, still goes on to become president of the USA!                                                  They's something rare in him that attracted these womem to him.                                                          And he still shots for the United States presidency? He must be Cubid bridegronm. Just saying.

        1. Credence2 profile image78
          Credence2posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          The scent of money for many women is the best cologne one could wear. Surely, you know this? We will not repeat what was an obvious a mistake in 2016.

          1. abwilliams profile image69
            abwilliamsposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            Come on now boys, we all know that "women" is just a made up word. It isn't definable or specific or anything special... anyone can be one - if they so choose! In fact, carry on with the sexist banter, because there's no such thing!

            1. Credence2 profile image78
              Credence2posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

              Be it Male, female or anything else we all know that money is always a lure. And let’s face it, anyone who is as crude, coarse or as callous as Donald Trump has GOTTA be paying for it

              1. abwilliams profile image69
                abwilliamsposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

                When given the choice, I'll take the Donald over Creepy, Sleepy Joe, every time.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image87
                  Sharlee01posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

                  To be frank, I concur, and I'll add that I've reached a stage where I find it difficult to even glance at Biden without feeling genuine disgust. The sight of him conjures up unsettling images of him invading personal space, whether it's sniffing children's or women's hair, or his unsettling skrewed-up facial expressions when he erupts in anger on a dime. "Creepy" falls short in capturing the depth of my aversion towards Biden. He sickens me.

                  https://hubstatic.com/16997709.jpg

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image67
            Miebakagh57posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

            Election come. November calls.

      2. Credence2 profile image78
        Credence2posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        I am not, it is pretty much what I did say.

  37. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
    Kathleen Cochranposted 4 weeks ago

    Wilderness: " one is a purely political show and the other part of our justice system."

    Exactly. Trump is being held to account by our justice system for his own actions. It's only political for you if you are planning to vote for someone in that situation.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

      No, it is "only political" if politics is driving it.  Considering cries for impeachment even before Trump took office, two faux impeachment attempts followed immediately by another "me too!" charge and a dozen other charges (with some crimes similar to other, uncharged, people) politics very definitely appears to be a large part of it all.  Anything to get Trump out of the White House and keep him out.

      So yes, a good deal of it is, without a doubt, political in nature even though using a weaponized justice system as just another tool in the box.

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

        I agree.

        The legal charges against President Donald Trump say more about the corruption of the democrat party and the justice system than they do about President Donald Trump.

        Take the latest in the courts of New York.

        A state court is trying a person on federal charges after the statute of limitations has run out.  A charge that was dismissed by the federal government who actually had jurisdiction.

        democrats have done all they can to interfere with this election and it shows.

        1. peoplepower73 profile image89
          peoplepower73posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          RMN:
          Do you mean like Trump tried to interfere with Biden's election?

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image67
          Miebakagh57posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

          Very awful indeed. Is Federal and State laws fused?                                           They're clear limitations written into the American Constitution.                                     Obviously, it's the Democrate hate specific for Trump, and generally for the Republican Party, that is painting America politics black.

  38. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    There were rumors in the media that David Pecker, head of the National Inquirer, was going to be the first witness to testify for the prosecution.  Pecker jokes encouraged.

    Then, on Tuesday, Trump's hearing to determine penalties for posts made about witnesses and jurors will be addressed.  I expect fines in that one.  I'll put the pool at $50k since there were seven different examples and the fines could be incremental with each offense.

  39. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 3 weeks ago

    For almost 12 (or is it 13) years now!
    So save it for someone else V.

  40. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    Amazing projection, when so many world leaders were seen laughing continually at Trump during events.

  41. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    Sandoval hearing outcome:  If Trump decides to testify in the New York Election Fraud case, here is what the prosecution can use to discredit him as a witness:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40PV6A0apJY

  42. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    If this ends up being true, it's pretty damning.  Apparently, Weisselberg wrote the reasons for the amount of Cohen's repayment down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPAcsRjJysc

  43. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    Anyone else on the lookout for the right being outraged that Trump had The National Inquirer fabricate stories about his political opposition?  Or that they suppressed information that was vital to them making an informed decision on the candidates.  Or does the outrage only happen when the opposition works to dampen bad stories?

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      The man is hardly credible.

      The National Enquirer?  is known as "Journalistic Sleaze."  Just look up the number of lawsuits that have been successful against them.  I did a quick scan and there were at least six.

      Interesting the man's name is Pecker.

      Here is some of his other less then repudiable stories.  This is just a few. 

      Pecker also testified about the Enquirer’s efforts regarding “catch and kill,” the practice of buying the exclusive rights to a story only to make sure it would never be published. The Enquirer paid $30,000 to a Trump Tower doorman named Dino Sajudin for a story about Trump fathering an out-of-wedlock child. Though the story turned out not to be true, Pecker said, “I made the decision to buy the story because of the potential embarrassment it would have to the campaign and Mr. Trump.” A second catch-and-kill example involved former Playboy model Karen McDougal, who was shopping a story about a sexual relationship she said she had with Trump. “I think you should buy it,” Pecker said he told Trump, who was married at the time, during the 2016 campaign.


      The question remains is if the left will believe anything and not require any actual proof of it.  I would say yes.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        To MAGA, no one is credible except the cult leader.  That becomes more evident with every single post trying to discount the actual people willing to testify under oath about what happened.  And the odds are that that cult leader will refuse to testify in his own defense.

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          I disagree.  MAGA is made of gullible people who believe everything anybody says about anything.  Simply because someone says something doesn't make it true.  This man provided no evidence and just his testimony.

          Yeah, lack of real evidence make it easy for people to be dismissed.

    2. abwilliams profile image69
      abwilliamsposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      Palestinian protestors are blocking kids from going to class on college campuses...no longer just blocking roads and bridges. They are threatening  students as well. Antisemitism is out of control. A Jewish Professor has been locked out of his College campus.
      Palestinian protestors are also promising an Oct 7th every day...here in America!!.
      But just keep focusing on Trump.
      The enemy needs us disengaged.
      Things are too insane right now, too out of control.
      I am so over all the pettiness which pales in comparison to what is happening in our country right now!!

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        Nice deflection attempt.  If you're so passionate about that topic, go start your own thread.  This one is about the first-ever trial of the alleged crimes of one of the two nominees to lead our country.  That the nominee for the Republican Party in a presidential election could become a convicted felon is pretty important to the country.

        1. abwilliams profile image69
          abwilliamsposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          Nope, not at all, just a moment of reality setting in. But, God is in control.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
            Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            Yes, I agreed. God is in control.                                But this 'catch and kill' thing which is as simple as a,b,c, is very argueable.                                     For example, it cause serious deages to 'real' Donald Trump, when he was bench pressed by a person no less than MS Daniels, when she was given monexy to keep mouth shut. Otherwise, I don't think the Court Judge will award ms daniels the $50 million, and subsequent sums.

          2. peoplepower73 profile image89
            peoplepower73posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            ab:  So does God like the Palestinians or not?  Because Netanyahu has killed millions of them including their children.  He has turned their homes, hospitals, and towns to rubble while looking for Hamas. He has made refugees out of them in their own country. That's why the students are protesting.

            Sorry Valeant, I know this is off topic, but I couldn't pass this up.

            1. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

              Like I said, take it to its own thread and have at it.

              1. peoplepower73 profile image89
                peoplepower73posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

                She doesn't do that, she likes to troll.

  44. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
    Kathleen Cochranposted 3 weeks ago

    Mie: Women are attacked to his money. And, yes, he is a human who makes mistakes. But no one is allowed to break the law.

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      Yes, no one is above the law. And the law must take its course.                                 But the money they paid MS Daniels, to kept silence, is to brought problems to Trump.

  45. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 3 weeks ago

    Oh so I am a troll, alrighty then, report me!

  46. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 3 weeks ago

    I guess 300 articles and facilitating numerous forum discussions over the years means nothing.
    Accolades, mean nothing...

    You don't want me in this particular discussion, stop bringing me back into it.
    Easy peasy!

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      No one brought that Palestine deflection in.  You tried to change topics instead of starting your own forum discussion, simply because Trump is getting crushed in his trial and it's very triggering for Trump supporters to listen to it.

  47. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 3 weeks ago

    There you go again.....

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      ...pointing out the obvious.  I can understand why PP makes the troll comment when the above post added nothing to the discussion about Trump's criminal trials and instead only came off as a personal attack.

  48. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 3 weeks ago

    Oh but it did add to the discussion, you just don't see it, too busy
    looking for offense in a "personal attack", from me, which never happened!
    No worries, AB "the troll" Williams, out!

  49. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    Again, take it to its own thread.

  50. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 3 weeks ago

    Arizona indicts many from Trump Campaign:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s-8kr5V74s

 
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