Is MAGA a CULT (think Jim Jones)
I will start off with a comment I made on another forum which really wasn't on topic.
According to psychologists and cult researchers (e.g., Steven Hassan, Robert Lifton), cults typically involve:
* Unquestioning devotion to a central figure - CHECK - Trump
* Isolation from alternative viewpoints - CHECK - Fake Fox News
* Use of fear, loyalty, or conspiracy to control members - CHECK
* Dismissal of facts conflicting with group beliefs - DOUBLE CHECK
* A sense of moral or spiritual superiority - CHECK
MAGA checks all those boxes. Conclusion, MAGA is a cult. You know another characteristic of all cults? The members always deny they are in one.All sociopolitics is a form of, "cult of personality."
I wouldn't say the majority treat it as a cult, and framing it that way is disingenuous at best, and lacking in earnest desire to understand and work with your opponents for the sake of society at worst.
If you take the hard stance it's a cult as a majority practice, the other side will simply spit on the idea just as you've spit on them. Gotta have a bit more fluidity, otherwise everyone remains so rigid that they become brittle, then finally they snap under the pressure they created themselves.As you've suggested, I am thinking Jim Jones, and I am surprised that all of that Kool-Aid drinking you've been doing... hasn't done you in yet!
I think labeling tens of millions of Americans as “cult members” based on political beliefs is overly simplistic and, frankly, counterproductive if the goal is real dialogue.
It's easy to make a checklist fit any group when it's framed with bias, and the criteria you've listed could just as easily be applied to strong followers of political figures like Obama or Bernie Sanders, or even to movements on the left. For example, dismissing conservative media as “Fake Fox News” while consuming only progressive sources can itself resemble a form of ideological isolation.
As for devotion to a central figure, passion for a leader doesn't make a movement a cult. People admire Trump for specific policies, a sense of disruption in politics, and a feeling that he speaks to their concerns. That doesn’t mean they’ve surrendered their capacity for critical thought. Many Trump supporters disagree with him at times, criticize his tone, or wish he’d say things differently, but still support his broader agenda.
Calling a political movement a cult shuts down conversation and dehumanizes people who might see the world differently. If anything, it reinforces the very divisions we should be trying to bridge.
So rather than fall into name-calling, I’d rather discuss ideas, policies, and the reasons people are drawn to them, on both sides.
Regarding Fox News, I think it's important to recognize that Fox News consistently leads in viewership across cable news networks. In March 2025, for example, Fox News averaged 3.13 million primetime viewers, surpassing MSNBC's 1.18 million and CNN's 591,000. In the key 25-54 demographic, Fox News attracted 394,000 viewers, compared to CNN's 121,000 and MSNBC's 109,000 .
In April 2025, for example, Fox News averaged 2.6 million primetime viewers, surpassing MSNBC's 1.21 million and CNN's 519,000. In the key 25-54 demographic, Fox News attracted 296,000 viewers, compared to CNN's 122,000 and MSNBC's 88,000 . adweekThey aren't being labeled because of their political beliefs. They are being labeled that because they have demonstrably turned their lives over to a single demagogue. They cannot see past that one particular man, just like the followers of Jim Jones were devoted to him or the millions of followers of Hitler were to him. In the latter case this cult rationalized WW II and the extermination of the Jews.
I didn't make a checklist. [b\Experts[/b] made a checklist to help them identify when a group of people have succumbed to cultism.
Obama and Sanders were popular yes, but beyond a handful of devotees, they didn't command blind obedience like Trump does with MAGA.
Fake Fox News did it to themselves by lying and using their network as a propaganda outlet for the Republican Party.
People who are brainwashed as most of MAGA is have definitively lost their ability to think critically when it comes to all things Trump. That is what all the data and research show.
Science has proven that in the brainwashed brain, the neural networks have physically changed such that the analytical parts of the brain are by-passed when it processes inputs into thoughts and actions.
That is what all those (and more) references will prove.I've been following your comments on the subject. You've certainly expressed your perspective and shared a few links that present alternative psychological viewpoints. However, the tone of your posts comes across as accusatory and, in my view, needlessly harsh. At this point, I can only hope others will refrain from engaging with these kinds of rants and choose not to encourage them further.
Kind of hilarious that a person could condemn MAGA followers of blind obedience yet excuse a dementia addled idiot because he happens to follow the same party line. All sorts of MAGA people complained about the tarriffs and the present of the airplane yet when Biden pardoned his son (remember him saying no one is above the law?) no one in the Demagogue party made a peep. That is the definition of blind followers.
Hi Doc, It’s become pretty clear that whenever Biden’s name comes up, the response is either silence or deflection. The forum has grown increasingly caustic, making meaningful participation difficult. It’s turned into little more than a place for relentless Trump-bashing, which, considering how well he’s doing on key issues, adds nothing of value to a sensible conversation. In my lifetime, I’ve never seen a president take on long-standing problems and push for global peace the way Trump has. Yet he’s being compared to Hitler. That kind of mindset is deeply disturbing and, frankly, anti-social.
I stop by most days but do not even see the need to comment for those reasons you mentioned. I think it is nice that those never-Trumpers have a place to spew their illogical hatred and continue to protect an ex-president that even the Lame Stream Media is now admitting was a terrible president that was unfit to hold office. (At the same time denying that they are the ones that covered for his dementia)
Oh well, if nothing else they are entertaining in their hatred-filled Trump-bashing.I completely agree. It's become so predictable that there's hardly any point in engaging. The same people who spent years defending every gaffe and failure of that administration are now acting like they were never part of the cover-up. It’s amazing how quickly the narrative shifts once the media decides it’s safe to admit what many of us saw all along, that he was unfit for the job from the start.
What’s interesting is that this performative outrage has almost become a coping mechanism for them. It’s like they have to keep bashing Trump just to avoid facing their own complicity or the consequences of the leader they actually propped up. And ironically, the more they rant, the more they highlight exactly why Trump still resonates with millions, because at least he doesn't pretend to be something he’s not. Their hypocrisy is on full display, and honestly, that spectacle has become more telling than any policy debate.If I and all those mental health experts are wrong, prove it. If I am right, say you accept it.
"How well he is doing"? You mean driving the stock market way down, the beginning of major inflation, and the precursor to recession? Or how about his out-of-control, inhumane immigrant policies that send innocent people to foreign prisons? I don't count those as "really well"
That so-called "dementia addled idiot" produced one of the most productive four years on any modern president, especially one like Trump.
I would rather have a president who forgets things once in a while as opposed to one like Trump is observably dangerously mentally ill.Not according to those who observed it with open eyes.
Observed what? Observed Biden being more productive that any first-term president in modern history ending his term with what economists said was a strong economy?
Or observe Trump mumbling and confusing people and places and even countries? While delivering hundreds of thousands of needless Covid deaths in his first term or in the process of driving inflation up and America into a recession.I think the comment you responded to with this reply is proof...
There is no place to begin a discussion with someone who believes Biden's Administration was "one of the most productive four years of any modern president"...
A person who can state that is either working with a completely fabricated reality (lets call it the false reality that CNN and MSNBC propagates) or they are part of the Globalist/NWO/UN-WEF effort to remake America...
The championing of Nationhood above International/UN Agendas, American Citizenship over Open Border Society and unimpeded Migration, and putting American interests above those of all other nations especially when it comes to industry, development and investment... that is the jist of what MAGA stands for... there is something seriously off with any American that wants to fight against that.Thanks, Ken, that provides a nice segue to this summary of some analysis I got ChatGPT to do.
The question I asked is:
Let's take the example of two people reading the same thing "Most economists say the economy under Biden was strong". One person was a brainwashed MAGA-type and the other just a normal conservative. Lead me through the two different paths that information takes?
Keep in mind, there is a lot of science to support what is to follow:
STEP 1: Perception and Language Decoding (Same in Both)
Visual Input: Occipital lobe (Visual Cortex) decodes the letters into words.
Then the Visual Word Form Area identifies familiar written language.
Wernicke’s Area comprehends the sentence structure and meaning: “The economy” → subject; “under Biden” → time frame; “was strong” → judgment.
Result: Both people understand what the sentence literally says.
Step 2: Evaluating Truth vs. Belief
Now the brain must determine:
“Is this statement true?” or
“Should I accept this as valid?”
Here's where the detail—economic consensus—matters enormously.
Normal Conservative: Belief & Truth in Tension
Prefrontal Cortex (PFC) engages to evaluate: “Okay, I’ve heard inflation was high… but job growth was strong, GDP recovered, markets held up.”
“If most economists say it was strong, maybe I’ve over-weighted inflation in my thinking.”
The Anterior Cingulate Cortex (ACC) flags some 'cognitive dissonance', but it’s manageable.
He or she may consult memory: “Things did seem better than 2020... even if prices were up.”
Emotionally, there's mild friction, but critical thinking overrides identity triggers.
Conclusion: He or she may still dislike Biden, but capable of accepting the statement as mostly true. Might say: Yeah, the economy did okay—even if I don’t like how he got there.”
Brainwashed MAGA-Type: Truth Routed Through Loyalty
The emotional salience of "Biden" triggers amygdala activation: threat response.
The brain doesn't ask “Is this true?”—it asks: “Does this help or hurt the cause?”
Dissonance is severe: the statement contradicts core identity and narrative.
Prefrontal cortex is disengaged or overridden by confirmation bias circuitry:
Memory selects for inflation, gas prices, and anti-Biden memes.
Evidence from economists is dismissed as deep state, liberal academia, or mainstream media lies.
DMN (Default Mode Network) aligns “Biden success” with identity betrayal. “I know in my bones he destroyed the economy.”
Conclusion: The statement is not processed as a challenge to evaluate, but as a hostile claim to be rejected—regardless of consensus.
One of the most frustrating things about this condition is that the victim (and that is what they are) has no idea their brain has been physically altered by the coercive words of Trump and the right-wing media. Even though science can show, through things like fMRI and other techniques this is true, that this physical alteration of the neural network is real, they will ignore the evidence and persist that their worldview is correct.
Now, if somebody has an alternative, science-based, explanation for the drastically different reaction to the same set of words, I am all eyes.The thing is, I have FACTS on my side. What have you got?
Facts ...
25% Inflation
12 million more migrants
13 Trillion more debt and 8% mortgage interest
Yep ...you got all the facts on your side.The worst inflation was 9.1%. - Truth matters.
We need all the migrants we can get to keep the economy going.
No idea where you got $13 trillion, probably the same place you get 25%.
Here is the TRUTH you should have reported:
- Trump's first term: $7.8 trillion increase in national debt
- Biden's term: $7.4 trillion
- Projected Trump second term if his BBTB passes: $8.48 trillion!
That is how to present FACTS and the truth.
Since you appear to be upset with the 8% mortgage interest rate, which was the result of the FED lowering inflation, then it sounds like you would have been happy with higher or longer lasting pandemic-caused inflation.
Now, this is what you should have reported:
- GDP Growth: The U.S. economy expanded by 2.8% in 2024, following a 2.9% growth in 2023, defying your recession forecasts
- Cumulative Growth: Over Biden's presidency, real GDP increased by approximately 11%, with a notable 5.9% surge in 2021, marking the fastest annual growth since 1984.
- The economy added 16.6 million jobs during Biden's term, surpassing any previous four-year period.
- Unemployment Rate: Fell from 6.4% in January 2021 to 4.1% by September 2024, maintaining levels below 4% for the longest stretch since the 1950s.
- Wage Growth: Average hourly wages increased by 19% over the term, though slightly lagging behind cumulative inflation. (well you can't set records all the time, but in the last two years wage growth surpassed inflation)
- Household Net Worth: Total household net worth rose by 28%, driven by gains in stock markets and real estate values.
- Inflation Trends: After peaking at 9.1% in June 2022, inflation moderated to 2.9% by December 2024, approaching the Federal Reserve's target. (Shortly, those are going to be the good ol' days)
- Market Gains: The S&P 500 Index increased by 29% from December 2023 to November 2024, reflecting investor confidence and economic resilience. (Which Trump just blew all to hell)
- Infrastructure and Manufacturing: Legislation such as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, CHIPS and Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act spurred significant investments, leading to over $388 billion in projects and the creation of more than 135,000 jobs by late 2024. (Biden got this done where Trump FAILED.)
- Entrepreneurship: New business applications surged by 30% compared to pre-pandemic levels, with notable increases among women and minority entrepreneurs.
Your turn.My turn for what?
You didn't disprove anything... no links... no agreed to facts..
You can't prove anything.... you can type whatever you want regarding GDP or Inflation... its only your opinion and one you cannot prove.Oh, give me a break. Each one of those numbers are EASILY verifiable or in the public record and you know it. If you think they are wrong, prove it. And it was your turn to provide truth, not made up numbers.
To help you do your own work like I did, type this into ChatGPT and ask for sources. You will get what I just reported: "What were the signs the economy was strong at the end of Biden's term..They may not be wrong, but they certainly lie. Meaning they present a picture that is not true - that Biden was the hero of the economy.
GDP for instance; the tiny little fact that the country was virtually shut down when Biden took office might, just maybe, have a part in increasing it instead of anything Biden did. Just as Bidens millions upon millions of illegal aliens he brought in reduces that wondrous GDP per capita to something considerably less.
Odd how the whole story is never presented, isn't it? When it is a viewpoint instead of "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" it works well, though.Do you have figures to back up what you claim or just groundless accusations?
Do you doubt that much of the country was shut down when Biden took office? Do you doubt that it was "turned back on" during Biden's tenure? Do you doubt that the change had an impact on GDP?
Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Desperately introducing irrelevant facts to denigrate Trump?Still no real data. you know, the kind you ask everybody else for?
No, the economy was NO LONGER virtually shut down as you claim.
Your attempt to mislead by 1) focusing on just one of the indicators of a good economy and 2) by misrepresenting that by using the wrong timeframe just isn't going to cut it.Do you believe that shutting down the country did not affect GDP? Do you believe that shutting down the country did not affect employment? Do you believe that increasing the population via illegal aliens does not change the GDP per capita? That's three indicators I most certainly did address (do you need a copy paste?).
I understand you do not wish to address such matters, that they do not promote what you are trying to say, and that they should therefore be ignored. I just disagree; I prefer the whole picture, including the reasons behind whatever it is that happened. I do not look for "proof" of what happened, I look for what happened, and that includes the reasons. You have a different attitude, requiring that Trump and everything he has done or said be set aside as nothing in any discussion.
We will thus never agree on much in the political field.Still no data. But, so what if I agree or not. That was 2020 and 2021. I am referring to 2023 and 2024. Shouldn't you be to?
Regarding 2020 and 2021, Trump shut down the economy, caused a recession (this how you would put it Biden had been president then), caused unemployment to go sky high, And left America unprepared to put shots in arms (let's not forget the hundreds of thousands of needless deaths he is responsible for).
It was left to Biden to conquer Covid, put the country back to work and children back in schools and build the economy back up. All but MAGA agree he did that.Yes. 2023 and even 2024 saw the ending of COVID and the huge increase in GDP as a result of that. But it doesn't fit into your desired scenario (Biden great, Trump awful) so ignore it.
Trump close SOME of the economy. Biden did the rest. And then Biden kept it closed beyond what was necessary. And then he paid people not to return to work!
Biden "conquer" COVID??? Don't be ridiculous. Trump made the vaccine. Trump made the ventilators. Trump took care of the logistics. Trump did all but keep people home and increase the giveaways to a point that inflation raised it's ugly head. And it's arms and it's body and it's feet. Biden produced the highest inflation we saw since the 70's, all while lying through his teeth about how high it was.
Likewise, Biden didn't "put the country back together" - eventually he allowed people to work and quit paying them to stay home - hunger did the rest.So you consider ~2.5% growth in GDP as being "HUGE"? or is that simply exaggeration so as to mislead?
What Trump DID was lie to the public about how COVID WAS NOT dangerous and would be gone shortly. What Trump DID regarding ventilators is to NOT SEND OUT 6,020 of the available ventilators that stockpiled PRIOR to Covid.
You still ignore the facts I give you that [b]it was TRUMP who passed out the majority of what you call "giveaways" to keep people alive. SO, don't blame Biden for inflation, BLAME TRUMP! (although he wasn't responsible either - what BOTH were responsible for is keeping people alive which appears to be the poorer choice in your worldview).
TRUTH AND FACTS MATTER.Yep. Trump gave away about a Trillion. Then Biden came in and gave away another Trillion. And another supposedly to fix infrastructure. And another huge sum so people could stay home instead of work.
But it's all Trump's fault.
TRUTH AND FACTS MATTERDid I say that it is all Trump's fault? Aren't you making that up?
You try very, very hard to give that impression, just as you try very very hard to make Biden almost solely responsible for any recovery (but not the negative aspects he produced). Something that I'm sure is intentional.
Attempting to convince a reader/listener/viewer that something is true when it is false, whether by body language, hints, innuendoes, tone of voice, choice of terminology or any other method makes it a lie. Not an error; a lie. It does not have to be outright words; it is the attempt that makes a lie, not just words.
There’s a segment of Democrats today who seem incapable of having a rational conversation. Instead of engaging in thoughtful debate, they default to name-calling, labeling millions of Americans as ignorant, hateful, or worse, simply because they supported a candidate they disagree with.
They twist every achievement under Trump, whether it was record-low minority unemployment before the pandemic, the historic Abraham Accords, energy independence, or his fast-track vaccine initiative, into something bad, as if basic reality no longer matters. Now, in his second term, Trump has done what many said was impossible: he’s brokered a new border security deal that has finally reduced illegal crossings, stood firm on restoring American manufacturing, slashed bureaucratic overreach, and helped get inflation under control while returning power back to the states. Yet these same critics will still scoff, not because the results aren't real, but because their mindset no longer seems capable of separating good from bad, only red from blue.By brokered a border security deal do you mean the illegal actions he has taken? Ignoring our immigration laws? Other than that, he hasn't done a thing on immigration
Restoring manufacturing? Of what?
Inflation under control? It hasn't changed from months ago... Not in any meaningful manner.
Bureaucratic overreach? It seems that his administration gets slapped on the hands for that by the courts almost every day. And I don't think this country has ever seen a more politicized Department of Justice than under Bondi LOLI did not observe President Trump knowingly breaking any laws. While his initial use of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to deport Venezuelan migrants was deemed inappropriate, the U.S. Supreme Court intervened, ruling that individuals targeted under the act must be given notice and an opportunity to challenge their removal in federal court before deportation can proceed.
Following the Court’s decision, the administration adjusted its procedures to comply with those legal requirements, ensuring due process protections are upheld.
Additionally, the Supreme Court has now allowed the administration to terminate Temporary Protected Status (TPS) for roughly 350,000 Venezuelans, paving the way for their potential removal. This reflects a continued effort to enforce immigration law within the framework approved by the judiciary. In short, while there were early missteps, the Trump administration corrected course and has operated within the bounds set by the Court.
I’ve already listed the many investments along with their amounts, so I won’t repeat the long list. I don’t agree with your views on the DOJ. From what I’ve seen, I actually appreciate the new DOJ’s approach, it’s about holding lawbreakers accountable and sending a clear message, regardless of who they are.
You said Instead of engaging in thoughtful debate, they default to name-calling, labeling millions of Americans as ignorant, hateful, or worse, simply because they supported a candidate they disagree with." - I totally disagree with that assessment.
First, as you should easily tell, my research is thorough and comprehensive. I don't do any so-called "name calling". Instead, I ascribe a commonly accepted label to the characteristics exhibited by this cohort of people.
The fact that you cannot accept is that people, large groups of people can be brainwashed - the science is clear about that - doesn't make it any less true.
In order to defend ourselves against a madman like Trump, it is necessary to understand what motivates his followers and counter it. To understand how they can face a truth head-on and then deny it is true. So long as they remain in a cult, they are a danger to themselves, to others, and to our democracy.
As you can see, it has nothing at all to do with "a candidate they support". It has everything to do with their lack of critical thinking ability when it comes to anything about that candidate.
When have we EVER twisted his record-low minority unemployment, that is a fact and we recognize it.
When have EVER dissed the Abraham Accords?? If you remember, I have given Trump (or rather Kushner) credit for doing something pretty damn good.
I and others have also frequently applauded Trump for signing the Operation Warp Speed initiative (but not for setting a program to get a massive amount of shots in arms - Biden did that).
Energy independence - while "technically" gained net energy independence in 2019, it was President Obama that did the heavy lifting during his term which your side simply ignores (which in my opinion is how a cult would respond). So, if you don't give Obama credit, nobody should give Trump credit.
Border security - Trump "brokered" no such deals; he Bullied his way to the little he did get, destroying friendly relations with our two closest neighbors. What Canada and Mexico did was mostly set in motion during Biden's term. What was new was Mexico putting 10,000 national guard on the border and Canada appointing a fentanyl czar - that is it.
Trump's actual success in reducing the border crossing is because of his extra-legal executive orders. For example, his EO to suspend asylum applications is probably unconstitutional and is working its way through the courts.
Standing firm on restoring manufacturing - That is basically BS. He LOST manufacturing jobs during is first term (at least that is the way a couple of commenters here would phrase it). Me, I would put it this way:
Obama 1: Gain 610,000 manufacturing jobs.
Obama 2: Gain 400,000 jobs
Trump, pre-pandemic: Gain 414,000 jobs
Trump, post-pandemic: Loss 592,000 jobs
Biden: Gain 775,000 jobs
As to Trump 2.0, the betting is right now, American manufacturing will lose a lot of jobs due to the tariffs and other reasons. For example, Goldman Sacs is estimating a loss of 500,000 jobs.
Slashed bureaucratic overreach: REALLY? Tell Mattel, or Amazon, or Walmart, or Bruce Springsteen that, lol.
Getting Inflation Under Control??? Again Really? You mean the inflation that Biden already got under control? He is going to, hell, he already is, making inflation go up.
I chose "What were the signs the economy was ruined by Biden's term"
It got me a plethora of fact filled data like this:
"Inflation: Inflation has been far worse during the Biden administration, up 20.1% over the first 45 months of Biden’s term compared to 7.1% during Trump’s first 45 months"You must have used Grok. When I tried your question, I got basic right-wing talking points, but nothing even close you what you said you got.
Then I put what you claim you got as an answer and asked if ChatGPT would have given you answer you quoted without contextual caveats. It said NO, it would not have.
Therefore, I can only conclude you left out all the caveats in order mislead me. Wilderness would be upset with you for leaving out so much information.
This is what ChatGPT probably said:
First, its denial: ... and the answer is no, ChatGPT should not have presented that inflation comparison without caveats, especially in response to a question like “What were the signs the economy was ruined by Biden’s term?”
Then it followed with:
The 20.1% vs. 7.1% Comparison Is Contextually True, But Easily Misleading Without Explanation:
If someone asked me [ChatGPT] that question, I’d likely respond this way:
"Inflation rose about 20.1% during the first 45 months of Biden's presidency, compared to 7.1% during the same span under Trump — a much larger increase.
However, this spike was driven in large part by pandemic aftershocks, global supply disruptions, and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — factors largely beyond the control of any single president.
The Federal Reserve also controls interest rates, which were historically low early in Biden’s term. By late 2023, inflation had dropped below 3%, suggesting effective containment."
That response:
1. Acknowledges the numbers
2. Explains why they occurred
3. Avoids attributing inflation solely to Biden’s policies
Now, doesn't that kind of presentation make more sense and is believable?You are awesome... I'm glad to see you are getting along so well with ChatGPT... you two are like bosom buddies.
---- "The 20.1% vs. 7.1% Comparison Is Contextually True, But Easily Misleading Without Explanation:
If someone asked me [ChatGPT] that question, I’d likely respond this way:
"Inflation rose about 20.1% during the first 45 months of Biden's presidency, compared to 7.1% during the same span under Trump — a much larger increase. ----
ChatGPT is helping in your replies immensely.Yes it is. Happily it helps improve my poor attempts to get the point across and get to the TRUTH.
A fun article for you:
Chatbots’ inaccurate, misleading responses about US elections threaten to keep voters from polls
https://apnews.com/article/ai-chatbots- … 5220fc4c69
This one is more flavorful:
Fervor Over a Liberal-Leaning Chatbot: How We Should Approach Political Bias in ChatGPT
https://bpr.studentorg.berkeley.edu/202 … n-chatgpt/
A telling example is when an X user (formerly Twitter) asked ChatGPT to “write a poem about the positive attributes of Donald Trump,” and did so similarly with a prompt to “write a poem about the positive attributes of Joe Biden.” ChatGPT declined to create a poem for Trump in the first instance, citing an intention to “remain neutral and avoid taking political sides,” yet it did not hesitate to craft a poem for Biden, singing his praises as a “leader with a heart so true … with empathy and kindness in view.”Here is what Brookings ACTUALLY said:
Brookings and others found that:
Yes, ChatGPT-3.5 and GPT-4 can show alignment with liberal values in U.S. contexts. We are up to ChatGPT-4o. However, the model is not ideologically fixed — it responds differently based on phrasing, framing, and prompt structure. Therefore, it is possible to elicit conservative, libertarian, or centrist outputs with neutral or adjusted prompts. Brookings and other researchers emphasized the need for transparency, user control, and diversity of perspectives — not that ChatGPT is "politically corrupted."
Now, when I use ChatGPT I am aware that it can make mistakes (in fact, it says so in a little box), consequently, I always analyze its response to make sure it makes sense. This the same thing I do when ANY politician says something as well - unlike MAGA."I always analyze it's response to make sure it makes sense "
...to you.
...based on your beliefs.
...your perceptions, your biases.
In many ways then ChatGPT is merely providing you a mirror. One that you check to make sure provides you the answer acceptable to you.Actually, if you use ChatGPT properly, and I do, it does not act like a mirror at all.
And isn't ALL analysis based on beliefs, perceptions, and biases? The trick is, and I was well respected by my peers in this, is you set those aside or be willing to change based on the evidence that develops.
Have I changed my mind and preconceived notions when presented irrefutable facts and logic? Of course, and I have reported it in these forums several times as well as in my articles.
Can you say the same? For example, have you finally dropped that inflation was 25% nonsense? At worst, it was 20% (which ONLY makes sense if you had explained that was a cumulative number). But it is really meaningless unless you put it into context such as this;
Cumulative Inflation by President:
Richard Nixon - 33% or 6.6% per year (R) *- 9th
Gerald Ford - 25% or 8.3% per year (R) * - 8th
Nixon-Ford - 58% or 7.5% per year *
Carter - 48% or 12% per year (D) * - 10th
Reagan - 33% or 4.125% per year (R) - 5th
Bush I - 17% or 4.25% per year (R) - 6th
Clinton - 23% or 2.875% per year (D) - 3rd
Bush II - 24% or 3% per year (R) - 4th
Obama - 14% or 1.75% per year (D) - 1st
Trump 1 - 8% or 2% per year (R) - 2nd
Biden - 21% or 5.25% per year (D) * - 7th
Rs - 140% or 5% per year
Ds - 106% or 4.4% per year
* Influenced by external events.
So, the context is that Biden is near the middle of the pack and the 4 worst results were due to events mostly out of control of the presidents.
For good measure, I through in which presidents had a recession start in their term - those are bolded. Note, Nixon had two! Of the 6 recessions, 5 were Republican.
Maybe now you can understand why no economists believe Republicans do a better job at running an economy.A fair evaluation...
One worthy of a considered response.
First thing that comes to mind is how since 1976 (Nixon which is where your comparisons begin) the government has changed calculating inflation making several changes to the methodology used to calculate the Consumer Price Index (CPI)... these changes include excluding house prices from the inflation rate and adopting new methods for calculating food and energy costs (or excluding them).
So... while it looks like you are comparing apples to apples... those numbers really do not.
Historical Changes to the CPI
https://www.bls.gov/cpi/additional-reso … hanges.htm
Is Inflation 5% or 14%? It Depends on How It’s Measured
https://www.fedsmith.com/2023/04/19/inf … e_vignette
Inflation was raging in 1980 and again in 2022. How the government measures inflation has changed, and you will be amazed at the difference.
According to Shadow Government Statistics, instead of a 5% inflation rate as of March 2023, the inflation rate would have been closer to 14.1% using the old methodology (1980-based). This chart displays the difference between the old and new calculation methods.
https://www.shadowstats.com/
So... once again... I say what is absolutely and provably true...
...based on your beliefs.
...your perceptions, your biases.
You will find the answers you are willing to accept... you will calculate the numbers in ways that best suit your argument.
Whether you realize it or not, your preconceived notions dominate the way you problem solve and analyze... you can't escape it...
That you believe that you can/do... is obviously false, very much so, to any impartial reader of what you type.
OK, here is the answer - with rebuttal - to your question "What were the signs the economy was ruined by Biden's term" - (I didn't miss the fact you were unable to ask the question I asked and we both know why.)
I'll put one per reply. First, Inflation:
1. Inflation Was High — But Global and Already Building
Criticism: Biden’s American Rescue Plan overheated the economy, causing inflation.
Rebuttal:
Global problem: Inflation surged worldwide, not just in the U.S. (Eurozone: 10.6%, UK: 11.1% in 2022).
Contributors: Supply chain shocks, pent-up demand, energy price spikes from the war in Ukraine.
The American Rescue Plan reduced unemployment faster than expected and prevented a prolonged recession.
By late 2024, inflation was below 3% — back near the Fed’s target — without a recession.
Summary: Biden arguably traded short-term inflation for faster recovery and long-term economic stability — and won that trade.
ALSO - I note your 25% was not supported by your answer and using "cumulative" inflation just to make a bigger number without explanation and context is simply disingenuous.2. Real Wages Lagged at First, But Recovered
Criticism: Wages didn’t keep up with inflation; real incomes fell.
Rebuttal:
True in 2021–2022, but real wage growth turned positive by mid-2023 and stayed that way through 2024
Low-wage workers saw the biggest gains, especially in hospitality, retail, and healthcare.
Wage growth outpaced inflation in the last 6 quarters of Biden’s term (as of Jan 2025).
Summary: Short-term pain, but long-term gain — especially for lower-income workers.3. Housing Affordability Crisis Isn’t Biden-Specific
Criticism: High mortgage rates and prices made housing unaffordable.
Rebuttal:
Mortgage rates are set by the Fed, not the president. The Fed raised rates to fight inflation — a necessary move.
Biden pushed for housing construction, with starts and permits reaching 15-year highs in 2023–2024.
The Inflation Reduction Act provided funding for affordable housing, energy-efficient retrofits, and rental assistance.
Summary: Biden didn’t cause high rates — the Fed did. Meanwhile, he backed long-term supply-side solutions.4. Debt Grew — But Less Than Trump’s by Policy
Criticism: Biden ballooned the national debt.
Rebuttal:
Biden approved ~$4.3 trillion in new 10-year debt. Trump approved $8.4 trillion.
Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act included deficit-reducing provisions like:
A 15% corporate minimum tax
Negotiated drug prices through Medicare
CBO projected deficits would have been worse without these provisions.
Summary: Biden’s net fiscal footprint was smaller than Trump’s, with more revenue offsets.5. Energy Prices Normalized; Production Hit Records
Criticism: Biden’s green agenda drove up energy prices and hurt independence.
Rebuttal:
U.S. oil and gas production hit all-time highs in 2023 and 2024 under Biden.
Gas prices peaked with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, not Biden’s policies.
Biden released oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to bring prices down — successfully.
The clean energy transition attracted hundreds of billions in private investment and created thousands of jobs in solar, wind, EVs, and battery manufacturing.
Summary: Biden expanded energy production and accelerated the clean energy transition.6. Immigration Surged — But So Did Labor Force and Growth
Criticism: Biden’s border policies triggered chaos and overwhelmed services.
Rebuttal:
True: Border encounters hit records. But immigration also offset labor shortages and:
1 Helped sustain GDP growth
2. Boosted Social Security solvency
3. Expanded the tax base
The Biden administration deported more people in FY2024 than any year since 2010 and reformed asylum and parole pathways.
Cities faced challenges, but many also benefited from immigrant entrepreneurship and labor.
Summary: Immigration helped fuel growth — the challenge was coordination, not policy intent.FINALLY - 7. Industrial Policy Stimulated Long-Term Resilience
Criticism: Subsidies distorted markets and picked winners.
Rebuttal:
The CHIPS Act and Inflation Reduction Act were responses to:
China’s dominance in semiconductors
Climate imperatives
Pandemic-exposed supply chain fragility
They attracted over $600 billion in private investment and reshored jobs.
Polls showed broad public support, especially in swing-state manufacturing regions.
Summary: These were strategic national investments — not just spending sprees.
It gives them some comfort to continue to believe fabricated reality, só at least it keeps them off the streets!
Thank you. There are Democratic shills FAR WORSE than MAGA followers.
How do you say "MAGA is a Cult" and not be accusatory?
Do you have any links that show that MAGA does not fit the definition of a Cult?The Democrats are more cultish than MAGA has ever been.
He baits, never fostering actual serious debate, instead of just flinging labels. Saying “MAGA is a cult” is inherently accusatory because it assigns a highly negative psychological and social judgment to a political movement. A movement that includes tens of millions of Americans. People who support this president for a wide variety of reasons, which are rooted in legitimate political grievances, policy preferences, or distrust of the political establishment.
It’s become clear that many of us are fed up with the status quo. And frankly, it has to be hard for some Democrats to admit they’re party is done, left looking inept, defeated, and yes, even a little silly. They have nothing to share but obnoxious bait. This must be rather mind-blowing. Their party has no relevance at all.
Fox News Viewership Debunked.
Mathematically it works like this. Let A, B, and C equal the viewership of Fox, Newsmax, and OAN. Let D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K equal the viewership of CNN, PBS, BBC, NPR, ABC, CBS, NBC, and MSNBC.
What you rightly claim is that A > D and A > E and A > F and A > ... K. But that is not the point and is misleading.
The correct formulation is A + B + C is much less than D + E + F + G + H + I + K.
Here are some sources you can use to research this:
These are by forensic psychologist Dr. Bandy Lee along with over 40 other mental health professionals.
https://www.amazon.com/Profile-Nation-T … 1735553743
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=trump+contag … ltr-ranker
https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Case-D … amp;sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/More-Dangerous-C … amp;sr=8-1
Based on the above, I wrote several articles to summaries them:
A series that begins What Makes MAGA and CULTS Tik ...
http://hub.me/aqzJ1
http://hub.me/aqBtN
http://hub.me/aq9vu
http://hub.me/aqBu0
http://hub.me/am1ai
http://hub.me/akAnDWhile I will not join you in partaking of the Kool-Aid, I can join you in the tooting of my own horn! I, too, have several articles, including a series on HubPages, as well. I call it the "I Say, I Say Series". In these, I cover the lies, the deception, the hate and the cruelty... all unjustly directed at one man, to the point where two attempts have been made, to take this man's life!!! It all started the first time we heard that he, Donald J. Trump, would be running for President of the United States, and it has never subsided....
That's the real sickness; that's the cold, hard, truth!
Godspeed President Donald J. Trump.100%
Hi Angie, Unfortunately, it's become increasingly difficult to participate here. The rhetoric has gone completely over the top, bizarre, even. It's clear that engaging with much of what's being posted is a waste of time and energy. And I recognize that I've contributed to the problem by giving oxygen to the rhetoric. I've made myself a promise, I'm done participating or wasting any more time on these kinds of comments. The level of discourse has become unhinged. At this point, the forum feels like little more than a diversion for those fixated on hating Trump.Trump derangement syndrome yet continues ad infinitum.
I looked and couldn't find the series you mention. Do you have a link?
News of the Day: Trump's BBBP and Tariffs are making investors Sell America again.
If we change "* Unquestioning devotion to a central figure" to " Unquestioning devotion to a small group of people" you have a great fit for the Democrat party as a whole. Far better than for MAGA, for many of those points are a real stretch (such as isolation from other viewpoints).
Here is why I make the general claim that MAGA, by and large, are part of a cult.
There are two polls that estimate that 71% and 53% of Republican voters identify as MAGA. CBS News estimates that 15% of voters identify as "True Believers", i,e, cult members. Using 30% as the commonly accepted number of voters being Republican and doing the math you wind up with between 75% and 91% of MAGA being "true believers" or cult members.
That is why is is fair to characterized MAGA as a cult.Eso, I am not fond of MAGA. I am also not fond of Democratic shills who are like MAGA. Both are extreme fanatics. I believe in being truthful regarding the situation at hand.
Counterrevolutionaries - a person who advocates or engages in a revolution that opposes a previous one or reverses its results.
I would call the Progressives a Cult... the cabal in control of DC... the criminally corrupt in Congress (those who like the Clintons and Bidens have spent their entire lives gaming the political process) and in Federal Politics at large... are what MAGA stand against.
It is in fact very hard to label the collection that makes up what has been in Control of our government (foreign and domestic) for so long... but one should recognize them as very Powerful and Ideologically driven.
MAGA... Trump Supporters... are made up of many former Democrats (Tulsi Gabbard, RFK, Elon Musk) liberals and conservatives all of whom believe in trying to keep the American Dream alive
They are not a Cult... if anything they are Counter Revolutionaries...
They are the ones that have stood up and said enough insanity...
Enough with pretending little 5'2 Suzie can make a good Army Ranger....
Enough with pretending 6'4 Sam is a woman and it is OK for him to compete with women in sports...
Enough with pretending we can keep spending trillions of dollars more every year than we take in and not collapse our economy...
Enough with pretending Open Borders allowing in millions of non-Americans a year to access our social services and benefits is a OK...
MAGA is a rejection of all things the Biden Administration/Progressives decided to plant their flag on the hill for during the Biden Administration... from war with Russia to letting the Cartels run free throughout the country...Who is the Progressive's leader who they blindly follow? Answer that, then we will move on to the next cult identifier.
Trump was once a progressive Democrat - what is your point?
There is so much wrong with the rest of your comment, it is pointless to comment.Eso, Ken's comments are exactly right. The one about the rangers, the one about Sam in women's sports. The one about pretending debt will not collapse our economy, the one about open borders: these ARE the far left objectives and attitudes that are being blindly followed bye the left. They are not wrong - they are right, and they are exactly what you said does not exist (lefties equivalent to MAGA).
The you may think these things are alright, are good for the country, does not make them so. It just shows that you, too, are blindly following those lefties with power.And you thinking they are not right doesn't make them so either. I come down on the side of personal liberty like other "leftists" do and not right-wing Christian dogma.
Personal liberty?!?! You mean like forcing women to share locker rooms with men and compete against men? That kind of "personal liberty"?
Or do you mean the "liberty" of being forced to give up massive chunks of our earnings and what we own in order to give it away to someone else?
The "liberty" of stealing from our children to buy what we want but do not want to pay for? Is that "personal liberty"?
Those things I listed are not about "liberty", personal or not; they are about control and power. Control and power primarily by the far left.
(But I will agree that the control and power of the far right Christians is just as obnoxious, just as "wrong" as the idiocies of the far left.)Regarding #2, that is the reason why the BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL was instituted-to cut the waste of governmental programs. It was the Democrats who flooded America with inane social programs such as welfare to glut the middle class into paying exorbitant taxes & made the poor lazy & entitled, wanting to live off others, & refusing to better themselves.
I thought it was to stop taxes on the rich from going up and paying for it by kicking people of Medicaid and SNAP.
No it's not. You are wrong yet again. Trump wrote the bill in order to reduce government waste. There are able-bodied people who live off others' dime. It is time that this abuse is stopped. People are poor in America, for the most part, is because of UNINTELLIGENT choices, IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION, & because THEY WANT TO BE. Facts are facts.
No, "personal liberties" such as telling women how to run their lives.
No, "personal liberties" such as fixing it so Black votes don't count.
No, "personal liberties" such as what religion you must follow.
You know, those that impact millions of people, not just a few.That's what I said; telling women they must accept men in their locker room, and compete against them in sports.
"Removing" black votes - that would be just a dream as no conservative wants that to happen.
But demanding a specific religion - that would follow under the power of the far right Christians...just as I said.
(You think giving up our wealth so liberals can give it away to others happens to only a few? Better re-think that tidbit - even though it only happens to about half the people, that's still "not just a few"!)Are you trying to tell me that those legislatures in Georgia and Alabama and Louisiana - you know, the ones that passed laws to limit the impact of Black votes, aren't Conservative? Interesting.
As to society not having a responsibility to take care of itself - well, we covered that before. Nevertheless, I'll repeat some of the things (along with being morally right) why it makes sense for society to help others that need it:
1. Ensuring basic needs—healthcare, education, nutrition—prepares individuals to contribute productively to the economy.
2. Studies show investments in early childhood programs and poverty reduction have high returns in terms of later earnings, tax revenues, and reduced criminal justice costs.
3. Programs like unemployment insurance, food assistance, and Medicaid help stabilize demand during downturns, preventing recessions from becoming depressions.
4. The U.S. experience in 2008–09 and again in 2020 shows how direct aid prevents broader economic collapse.
5. Poverty, desperation, and lack of opportunity are correlated with higher crime rates, especially violent crime.
6. Societies with lower income inequality and better social supports tend to have less violence, higher trust, and more civic cooperation.
7. Addressing root causes (e.g., lack of housing, addiction, untreated mental illness) is cheaper and more effective than punitive solutions like incarceration.
8. Infectious diseases, addiction, malnutrition, and mental health problems don’t respect income boundaries.
9. Societies that ensure broad access to healthcare—even for the poorest—tend to fare better in public health crises (as seen during COVID-19).
10. Preventative care for low-income populations is significantly less expensive than emergency or chronic care.
11. Societies with high levels of inequality and neglect often become unstable or authoritarian as the wealthy seek to protect themselves from unrest. Which is what we are seeing with Trump today.
12. Inclusive policies help strengthen democracy by keeping citizens engaged, hopeful, and invested in the system.
13. Resentment and alienation among the poor or working class are fertile ground for extremism, populism, or violence.
14. Even those who are financially well-off depend on the functioning of broader systems—infrastructure, education, emergency services, public health.
15. A society where large numbers of people are destitute or excluded eventually becomes more dangerous, expensive, and dysfunctional for everyone.
16. The U.S. military and intelligence agencies (including the Pentagon) have repeatedly warned that domestic inequality is a national security risk, especially when large segments of the population feel abandoned or powerless.
17. Example: January 6, 2021 — disinformation combined with economic frustration and social alienation contributed to an attack on democratic institutions. i.e. an insurrection.
I don't like extremists on the Left either. That said, there is no sizable comparable group on the left that are similar to MAGA. Are their individuals who are "true believers" on the left, certainly, but they are small in number.
If you evidence that is not true, I would be interested in seeing it.
One of the factors that make MAGA true believers unique and cult material is their blind loyalty to Trump; there is no equivalent on the left, which should be obvious given their state of disarray.
Another attribute of MAGA is an extreme sense of nationalism combined with populism. I am not sure what the equivalent is on the far-left, but what there is of it, it is pretty disorganized and not monolithic like with MAGA.I don't know about pointing a finger at a specific individual leading the left's radicals, but what about the people that struggle to bring in, and keep here, as many illegals from anywhere at all? We know they are training illegals what to say to weasel around the intent of our laws, we know they are providing help in transportation, food, etc. - what about those people and their viewpoint (opposite of nationalism?)?
What about those people that do their best to force us into some kind of world wide government? WHO, the UN and other organizations. Again, the opposite of nationalism and NOT in our best interests.
What about those that have descended into the depths and are using our justice system to persecute our President (both past and present)? You may feel they are behaving reasonably, but they are not - are they the left's version of populism?
Bottom line; the left is no better than the right. They just attack and support in accordance to YOUR wishes and are thus rather hidden to those of the left.The topic was cults. The issue was does the Left have an equivalent leader to follow blindly that MAGA does. The question I asked was if the left, as a group, is a cult as claimed, who is that leader?
BTW, exactly who is the "left" you are referring to? Is it Bill Clinton pr John Tester or Mark Warner? Or are you JUST talking about people like AOC who doesn't represent most on the "left".
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