Let's face it, Republicans and Democrats have been big spenders and now have new taxes for us to pay. Should we riot and protest like the French? That way we can finally become European just the way the Democrats have always wanted it? All views are welcome.
I think we will eventually. We will come to that, but for a different reason I fear. Especialy if after the first of the new year, the money polocy makes it impossible on folks, taxes, etc... we very well could.
I hope not, I would rather we group up and go after things legaly all the way to the Supreme Court if possible, if we can.
But...sometimes it takes getting in the street. My Grandfather used to say
"If you hit an Idiot hard enough, he will leave you alone!" It may take that.
Personaly, I do not want to see us do that.
I hope that any demonstrations that we have are actual demonstrations and not a riot. I don't mind the protests, we have a tradition of doing that but when it degenerates into a riot, it is really gruesome and just makes things worse. It's why I look at the riots over in Europe with a disapproving eye.
me to Flight, me to
I have honestly seen and been in one as a kid, I got clubbed by a State Patrolman one Summer vacation in the early 60's. Riots in the South at my Aunt's home in Mississippi. It was not good.
All I was guilty of was taking a Black woman's arm to help her into a sidewalk alcove of a Grocery Store front.
She was crosing and trying to get away from the crowd and the Police and called to me "Young Man" and held her hand and arm out. I took her bag, then grabbed her arm to honestly help her, all she wanted was to get off the curb and out of the way.
But one of the State troopers walking the Curb in the police line clubbed me, and shoved her up against the glass window, her grocery bag ripped and stuff went everywhere. he screamed at her, told her to move her Black A.. down the street and get behind him, now!
Some college Kids had blocked the street in a protest march and were being removed. It started a riot. It was bad, real bad.
I do not want to see us get to that.
That must have been a terrifying experience, Dutch. My concern is that it would be worse now. With the prevalence of guns it's going to end up like the wild west.
I agree, they have clubs here around Nashville, Very private and hidden, that stage outings and camp outs. They practice army tactics like assault on a house, etc...
they are right wing extreme and they are the type that wrap their guns in oiled plastic and burry them in the back yard. Underground extremists, believing in Armageddon and such. Nut cases They go out to Private farms and practice.
The Police here, say they keep track of that stuff, but it is doubtful.
Things like that have potential to get really bad, fast.
I work 911 dispatch at night here in the City and you would not believe what some people do!
Bill Haslam, running for Govener here in Tennessee, told a crowd of NRA folks at a Town meeting format last night, that if the Legislature next year hands him a bill saying they are eliminating the state carry permit laws and procedures (Meaning anyone can carry a consealed weapon) that He "would" sign it..! That's Absolute nuts if you ask me.
I have a feeling at some point this is in our future. Sad to say that.
Nearly everyone got a tax cut last year thanks to Obama. He's proposing a continuation of the Bush tax cuts for everybody but the richest 2% of the populace. So what are you worried about. Why not try to get your facts straight for a change?
Oh no, does the greedy "me generation" actually have to give of themselves to solve problems that extend past the nose? Maybe my generation won't chuckle at maintaining your social security if you don't leave mine with a steaming pile of s@%# economy! Taxes pay for infrastructure... projects, jobs, green engineering, jobs, better education, jobs and smarter voters.
We have some of the lowest personal income tax rates on the planet. We pay under $3/gallon for gas and $.15/kwh for energy. Seriously folks...rioting over that would be like a 5 yr old who didn't get a pony for his birthday, burning down his house.
We've already done it big once over taxation without representation. I don't see why it can't happen again. I personally don't want to riot and protest, but my current tax situation isn't very bad. I'm for flat tax if that ever gets on the ballot, and I would prefer not to be European.
Ediggity, I think a flat tax would be an awesome thing. Can you imagine the time and money that we'd be saving? I mean accountants probably wouldn't like it but a flat tax just sounds so sensible right now.
I'd like to see a flat tax also. just abolish IRS, and the return system, everyone pay in a fixed %. You have the option of setting it up any way you like to pay it in with your employer. Or if you work for yourself you send it in.
say if it is 10% of your total gross pay each year (ex: 36.000 a year pays in 3,600 dollars for the year, and you devide it by the number of payments you choose, no interest added in, just a flat amount for a payment)
you can have it drawn all at once if you can stand doing that, or every week., or every two weeks, or every month, what ever way you wish to elect it done. Stretch it out all year or pay it sooner- your choice.
That way you set up your income to know what is coming in to you each pay period.
Then when you hit the pay out. Thats it. anything else made the rest of the year is yours non taxed.
everyone pays the same % those who make more pay more, those who do not, pay less. but all pay the same % in.
A flat tax like this will not eliminate the IRS. We need to replace our tax system with a sales tax like the one proposed by Neal Boortz. With a sales tx, nobody escapes. Not the rich, the middle class, or the poor. Not even the illegals. I doubt even this would eliminate the IRS as some Govt. body will be responsible for collecting and distributing the tax to the treasury.
I have to agree Live, that the Goverment in some small capacity would need to monitor it, but a sales tax? We have that here in Tennessee, no income tax at state level but a 9.25 aprox. sales tax. It is not solving anything as far as State Budget is conserned. So from this example here, I would say that possibly would not work at all. But it would make already expensive goods, higher and harder to afford.
it was just an idea, nothing more, but yes everyone paying a fair amount equaly, would be favorable. How exactly, would need to be worked out.
That does sound like a traumatic experience, but good for you for having the instincts of a true gentleman, Dutch.
I'm pondering this idea FK.Do you think the French protests will be successful? And don't forget, France is a MUCH smaller country than the US. Really hard to imagine anything being implemented on such a grand scale. Not to mention getting all of us on the same page to agree to that approach.
A more philosophical question (not to you personally -- but if you know that answer, terrific). Are we "over" our pouty party against the French? It hasn't been all that long since America was calling French Fries "freedom fries."
Do you think we are at a stage where we would emulate "them" ?
(Not trying to be bigoted -- j'aime bien les fraicaises!)
Mighty Mon I hope so, I have been in france on several Business trips and we both sem to have our predjudice for many reasons, and it needs to be gone, we all need to get healthy in our minds and come togeather some how.
The News here paints it as people just fighting the change in retirment age, trying to make it seem less than it really is. I do not think we in the U.S. are getting the whole story correctly.
I think they are fighting for a way of live they have earned and feel is there's to keep. and maybe a much deeper reason. But The state of our News companies now makes it hard to know what is even close to truth.
You would have to live it to understand it, I think
But The state of our News companies now makes it hard to know what is even close to truth
Aint THAT the truth !
The French have a healthy attitude to government and have a habit of keeping it in line with the people. I love the way they have a right wing national government but many of the towns and cities have socialist government - kinda more like it should be. Nationally looking after France, locally looking after the people.
I personally liked the 'freedom fries' error during the horrendous barrage of lies and deceipt that got your right wing companies what they wanted - the invasion of Iraq and access to it's oil - Liberty, Equality and Freedom is a cool national base.
China, I have to agree here. We in the US forget, about our CIA and national Security Interests, we do not admit that we dabble in a lot of "macabe" activity if you will. We step around in a lot of stuff we possibly should not, And we as a Nation never really say Hold on a minute here!
Then we get upset when it comes flying back at us and we forget to duck!
I have seen some really questionable stuff in my work years. 17 years traveling for the US, (World bank stuff, some CIA stuff)- West Africa. people have no idea what goes on at all. Some of it necessary, yes...but-not all of it!
Thank you Might Mom for the complement, my Aunt felt I should have never been downtown that day, got very upset at me, said I deserved the bruses I got for being there..! But I honestly have never believed like some in my family.
no we shouldn't - usually when new taxes come in .... others phase out - it balances out - the tax laws in the US really are fair if you sincerly understand them it is a decent system
The France case is different as the one cause of their social welfare prob is the aging of population, they have to increase the age of retirement because the social welfare money for the aging pop is depleting the resources. France birth rate is negative, the people in the 50 plus bracket outnumber the young population.
I think we should protest and riot over the cancellation of Deadwood.
Taxes continue to go down for 98% of us. I guess the 2% who are being asked to miss a yacht payment or two next year could hire homeless people to protest on their behalf.
FoxNews could cover the event, inflate the attendance figures by 1000% and call it a mighty blow against socialism.
2% pay 68% of the taxes.
40% pay no taxes.
So who is this 98%?
What percentage of their incomes does the 68% equate to? The 98% is made up of the poor who pay no income tax (but a much higher percentage of their income on sales and payroll taxes) and the middle to upper middle class whose taxes were raised by Reagan and lowered under Obama.
It's interesting that those at the very top of the food chain (Buffet, Gates etc.) agree that they and others at their level should be paying more.
"It's interesting that those at the very top of the food chain (Buffet, Gates etc.) agree that they and others at their level should be paying more."
Its not interesting at all. its stupid.
Their politics dictate to them what they think is fair and out of that 2% they are a minority.
Its not greed that someone wants to keep their money its greed that so many want to take something that doesn't belong to them.
But continue on with the misleading language all the way to a November defeat.
I see that some have posted comments about a riot and ending it with sadly. I think its sad that we sit on our butts and wait for something to happen while doing nothing and watching it get worse. I'm not a violent person but I'm tired of all the garage bickering. Have we forgot that we are the goverment? Have we forgot what it means to be a representative? None have done their jobs while lining their pockets with more and more lobbyist contributions. What happend to us? We all should be marching to the house and demanding them all to be expedited out or their positions IMMEDIATELY and replaced with ones who do not have connections or ties to wall street under the understanding that they can be replaced too, pass laws against the tyranny of the corporations taking over our country, outlaw lobbying completly, and pass a law that specifically states that ANY member of the congress can be removed by action of the people within 24 hours by means of vote. In other words its about damn time we got off our butts and took our country back. Petition and serve people, petition and serve.
You'all cannot become in any way european like the french - you'all have no savoir faire
Citizens shouldn't riot - non violence is important.
But we should protest. I'd love to see a state refuse to enforce the Federal Government's income tax!!
But we need to cut spending. Can't cut taxes without cutting spending. Get out of Iraq (Ron Paul would've done this years ago, as opposed to Obama, we need to get out of every country we have military bases in (just like RP would like), and we need to cut having private companies compete with welfare.
Um.. I thought the French were protesting cuts in Government spending, not higher taxes?
This economy is exactly what happened and is a depression. With deregulation there are a few people with all the money. Unless we break up these blocks of money whether corporations or individuals we will continue to loose everything we own. I call for a FULL SCALE MARCH ON WASHINGTON BY EVERYONE THAT CARES ..DECEMBER 1ST..MEET AT THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT LET'S THROW OUT ALL CONGRESS AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK THOSE GUYS ARE BOUGHT AN PAID FOR...WE NEED TO BREAK THESE POCKETS OF MONEY NOW OR WE WILL LOOSE EVERYTHING WE HAVE....pass this to every blog and internet page you can . We cannot hesitate any more.
The french are rioting, as I understand it, to protest against the possibility of retirement age being raised from 60 to 62.
Of course we'd all love to live in a society where we could enjoy long and fruitful retirement but is this really sustainable? The population is increasing all the time and medicine is always improving so we are living longer, something has to give.
All that I would ask is that the politicians are a little more honest and that we have a little more sense than to ask them to make promises which there is no chance that they can ever keep.
Here in Britain, the promise by the Liberals before the election to never raise tuitions fees reminds me a lot of George Bush Senior's pledge --- "Read my lips, no new taxes."
I think in politics the electorate usually get who they deserve and there is no point in always hammering the politicians, if someone tells you that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow just because that is what you want to hear, are you going to believe it?
We get the representatives we deserve.
The trouble with a higher retirement age (here) is that once you hit 55 and older, nobody wants to hire you. Not to mention the jobs that you just can't do any more once you hit a certain age. I know mechanics, repair men, people who perform hard physical work, whose backs and knees are shot. If they have to work til they are 68 or 70, they won't even be able to stand on their feet to greet the people coming into Wallmart. (Try living on that)
The bigger issue behind the retirement age being raised is not only the relative numbers of people paying in against the numbers drawing on it - it is also the declining economies of most western countries. The more 'other' economies, like the rising Asian economies, enter the whole pool the more levelling there will be. As Asians increase their standards of living (which they are rapidly) the more others will fall. What is needed is a different world economic model that reduces the difference rather than increasing the gap between the wealthy and the rest. Being a Wallmart greeter would not be quite so bad if the money it attracted at least maintained some standard of life - at grass roots levels it is about the money received versus the cost of living. By curbing International adventuring and global scale businesses people could get on with making a living, minimal or otherwise, within the system.
So, you want to reverse globalization? Very bad idea.
If americans did riot over taxes, it wouldn't be the first time.
I would think that if we were not allowed to demonstrate on various issues, and march in the streets, as they did when Bush was running for his second term in office. There would be more riots over just about anything.
I live in michigan, and every time some idiotic college football team loses a game, there are thousands of college kids running through the town burning things, flipping police cars, and being total assholes. Over a stupid game.
So, don't be too hard on the french. American's are just as guilty about rioting than anyone. The only reason you rarely hear about it on the local news, is because our media would rather find fault with other countries, than keep it's focus on where the problems really lie.
They would rather not talk about it. Just like Crime in the inner city. It happens every hour of every day, but, the only time it is reported on the news, is when it happens in the suburbs, or in areas where crime rarely happens. Very sad.
Protest YES, rioting NO.
It always amazes me how other countries just take in and accept whatever is dictated by their estates without having a word.
Democracy? democracy is not just about voting -one day- for your representatives. Democracy is having a say in how your country is run.
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