I watched an interesting tv show, documentary, that shocked me about it being in several countries and builing up Britian, and others. Abraham Lincoln abolished it.
Slavery is an ancient practice. It still exists today. There are those who want people to believe that slavery is peculiar only to the United States and that only blacks were held as slaves and only whites held slaves. At the time of the Civil War there were black slave holders in New Orleans. Several Indian tribes also held black slaves. White slavery was legal in the United States until 1848. Pre-Columbian cultures held slaves. There is nothing new about slavery.
thx that's very good info!
ya know my great grand mother is an indian. i never met her,only saw her picture in a leather dress and two long braids and mocassins. but the story i got was that the blacks were being forced out of their home. these were freed slaves but they were trying to enslave them again or something like that and they were being treated badly. they left and took up with the indians because they all got along. of course they worked with them they had no home anymore and the indians were in charge, but slaves? how else would indians be around them. did they buy them? if so from whom? i've always only heard good about them in the family stories that have been passed down, they were kind they were family! i think this may be a spin on words to blur that slave line . . . again. but im gonna see if i can punch it up from more than one source
before ya know it the story will be blacks came over to help build america and the farmers offered them to come in the house and eat some food and they said no we want to live in the barn and we only want a pot of beans. then the farmers offered to pay them and they said no we'll just wait till you get on your feet say 200 years ha ha ha
Hey - you should go for that back-pay your family are owed !! The owners families still have it in shares in arms manufacture, oil and just about everything else
There is a very interesting study of the genetic heritage of living American blacks among those who participated was Don Cheadle. His ancestors were once held as slaves by Indians. Remember there were dozens of tribes. Among the professions taken up by former slaves one fo the most popular was cowboys and ranch hands.
The United States was no more built on slave labor than on Irish labor or German labor. The difference is the involuntary nature of the labor - isn't that offensive enough without having to exaggerate? The US also was not the last country to out law slavery. Slavery still exists in the world today condoned by practice if not by law in many countries in the 3rd world.
An honest discussion of slavery is impossible with some people who see things through the lens of race rather than dealing with history and fact alone. There were black slave holders in the American south, there were free blacks in the North who were prominent members of many communities, there were white slaves in America at its founding.
Slavery is like all human institutions complex and varied. Not always horrific or violent slavery has one thread running through out its history whether it is the Jews enslaved by Egypt or the people of Russia enslaved by the communist state. Slavery always strips people of their most fundamental right - the ownership of ones self. If a person were kept in comfort and luxury but still a slave that would be as evil as keeping a slave in chains.
Thank You, Wonder Woman - I still have the hots for Linda Carter
are you on drugs?
Perhaps your comments indicate he is quite right in saying "an honest discussion of slavery" is just not possible.
well some people are so defensive about it!they think if they blur the line then they can make it someonelses fault. it happened just relax! see if you can find last weeks feed called the hypocrisy of america. it lasted 3 or for days on this very topic. all the bases were covered. it was a very interesting hub
kflippin- all wrong he is and you will be if you believe that. slave labor built america no secret!
Slave labor did not build America. That is a myth. Certainly slave labor in the south was instrumental, but all that was built was burnt and laid to waste, so no, slave labor did not build this great country. Men and women who wanted a new life, who were not afraid to take the long boat trip here and work their arses off and face grave dangers -- those folks built this country, and that includes immigrants from all across this globe, some free, some beholden for many years to whomever paid their way (which they willingly agreed to endure, including my own), and yes, slaves as well, of various description, and yes, predominantly from Africa. Enough already. Take the blame back to the UK, one of the first to object, yet the the first to lay the groundwork in the 'New' country, sounds a bit familiar.
In my opinion, it is what followed the abolishment of slavery in the USA, that should be criticized and maligned if anything in this day and age. But even that is now enough gens back that even me at 50 years old, I know full well that any equally and more poor class mate of mine could have gotten a Pell Grant and worked their way through college if they chose, with zero so-called expected help from their parents after the first year. So enough already. The opportunity was there for a long time, is there now, and it's just mind-boggling that there would be any further issues today that time and human nature wouldn't take care of, when left to our own devices without inciting influences to the contrary.
Harking back to slavery is just so lame, yeah it is so very real and awful, I have a Gr. Grandmother who was an Indian, a squaw to quote a relative, and no she was not respected, then, and yes that is so very much a part of one's heritage, but it is not in any way the Pertinent issue of life today in America. Don't be used.
well the topic was slavery but you are right, the atrotious deed was racism. slavery bought the banks, the schools.the businesses etc. then all the ceo, upper management,management and supervisory positions,property etc. then they let them compete. what did you call a black man with an engineering degree? unemployed. slavery, in whites, created a false sense of superiority. they called blacks lazy eventhough they worked three jobs. they stole and cheated them in every way possible. they red lined them, not allowing them to buy homes in certain areas even if they managed toget through a myriad of obstacles. no loans! do you recall the civil rights movement?were the blacks asking for something unreasonable? no! then why did they shoot them burn them hang them for no good reason? i guess you have lived in a bubble. all the cheating and rigging. you run a race in 15 minutes you get accolades i run the same race in ten minutes they say nothing. you're ten minutes late everyday ok. i come in late twice i'm fired. i work at a company 5 years. you start at the company tomorrow. i have to train you. you are my boss and make more than me. we are keenly aware of this attitude and it carries over to the presidency. bush terrible obama is working to fix his mess they say he is bad. but we know why.
when i was young i sold new cars! every month we had a breakfast for the #1 seller of the month. for two months it was a white guy. he sold thirteen cars and we had a big breakfast and a big pat on the back for him. the third and fourth month it was a black guy, he sold 19 cars ea. there was no mention of it nor the breakfast. i could rattle off stories like this all day. halle berry the actress won a beauty contest in highschool. they said she would have to share the title with a white girl or have the contest again. so she had the contest again, and won again, they still wouldn't give it to her.finally other schools and the board forced it.we stood back and watched as they would spin another version of the facts always that looked good for them and somehow bad for the black !
well we or i was talking about slavery period that was the topic of the feed. blacks learned to do pushups with someone sitting on their back while the others didn't even exercise.i only saw that kind of stuff in the south.they have no shame!
hey project for you! track the money from slavery and see where it leads you
You totally forget that all of our founding fathers owned slaves, North and South. The wealth of this country in the early years would not have been possible without slave labor. The United States were originally colonies - the sole purpose was to produce products for export back the European countries.
Benjamin Franklin, Benjamin Rush, John Jay, William Livingston, John Adams, Charles Carroll, John Dickinson.
Some of the founding fathers who didn't own slaves or were totally against slavery as a practice.
Once again the attempt is to discredit this Nation by discrediting its founders.
We are not going to let that happen any longer.
look this up: Slave Profits and the Roots of the Wealth Gap. youll be surprised.
the irish were paid and so was everybody else. are you from here, because you don't talk like it. i can imagine that i guess it must be hard for you to accept. but you can't re-write it.it doesn't bother us and we know and have always known everything that happened. it was what it was. this is history. ya know what that means? it means it's history and nothing you say will make it change. america was built at the EXPENSE(paid for by) of the slaves. the slaves earned the income to build it, everyone else collected the benefits from it( inheritances,jobs,education, loans, land etc.) no effort needed to collect huh?
i saw a girl said that this was some liberal agenda or something ha ha ha ! what could one have to do with the other? this can be an interesting topic when people aren't trying to remove themselves from it. we just had this discussion last week. the first thing they always say is well did you know that africans sold blacks into slavery and what do you think about that? answer: they were criminals too. you can't disprove it, it is real. it is americas black eye(no pun intended)it's every americans history. no way around it!
I wonder why you assume or, better yet, why you think you have enough information to assume anything at all about me. I am not talking like I am "from around here" because I am not talking I am writing. When I write I tend to think about what I want to express.
You are right about one thing, Joe! It's our history, good or bad! It does no good to sugarcoat it or pretend it was better than it was. Our country was founded on greed and slavery was used to feed the greed of those who could rationalize slavery, whether through religion or feelings of being superior to those they enslaved.
It is only human nature to feel loyalty to one's country, but it is impossible to feel what a slave experiences in a lifetime of servitude! It's easier to think they were not so badly treated or that they sold their own people into slavery.
thank you randy! thats the way it was. my ancestors were and we have stories passed down. i guess what gets me is and put yourself in this position. you work your entire life and have nor can have anything. then your kids do it , your grand kids, their grand kids and for 15 or so generations! whew thats a long time!
I have my own remorse, Joe! My great-great grandfather used (I refuse to say owned!) over 200 slaves on his cotton plantation and I personally witnessed the way black citizens were treated before the civil rights movement.
I was in high school when the first two black students walked down the hall on their first day at a formerly all white school!
I can only imagine how sleepless they were the night before!
yeah can you imagine trying to study or work or whatever in that atmosphere?
"the irish were paid and so was everybody else."
Joe, I think he was clear that slaves were not paid.
in that statement . he was comparing all the other races to blacks and slavery. i was saying that everyonelse got paid except the blacks
it built up america too!
Lincoln didn't exactly abolish it himself (although I guess if you want to get philosophical about it...)
abraham lincoln didn't abolish it.
Actually, he wanted to ship all the black people to Liberia.
*the more you know*
the irony of slavery was that america was the last country in the world to abolish it.
really? what part?
America was not the last country in the world to abolish slavery.
i guess my college professor who studied world history for years lied to us then...
I guess he did, because there is no question that claim is inaccurate. Brazil was the last to abolish slavery in the Western Hemisphere in 1888, and the very last country to officially abolish it was Mauritania in 1980!
1980? are you serious? damn, that's quite surprising. oh well. well the history professor i had, lets just say he didn't think too highly of america and it's history, so maybe that explains why he failed to bring that up.
What do you know about slavery? It's an on-going issue. Many forms of slavery exists. It's too broad of a subject for a forum post, and I am not presently ready to write a hub on it, so I'll leave it there.
thx Cagsil I am actually going to write a hub on it.
I have been collecting alot of info the past 1/2 hour but it will take a while. What I don't understand is why the bible appears to condone it. [not to get into a religious discussion]
We better wait for you to write that hub before we can discuss slavery.
I just decided not to wait for you to write a hub.
Actually, your action did a lot more than what you think. But, then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand.
If my action did anymore than what it was meant to do I will suffer whatever consequence may occur.
"I wouldn't expect you to understand."
What you should expect is that I don't care what you expect.
Funny that some feel qualified/empowered to decide what other members' comments are "necessary."
the institution was put in place in america by rightwing whites.they used white slaves at first but they would run off and were able to blend in and couldn't be found.so they decided on blacks. whenever you discuss this immediately people come out of the woodwork and begin to deny or blur the line or blame it on someoneelse or say that some other country did it too and that made it ok.thats what you call the no defense, defense. slavery and trafficking and kidnapping goes on today in some countries it's bad there and it was bad in america from the time it began. the opposition was enough to overturn it but the greedy ones wanted to keep it! those people still exist today their called the righwing.
they went from slavery, the civil war stopped that, to child labor,child labor laws stopped that, to abuse of the worker, unions stopped that(except in the slave states) and the rightwings' final frontier is women, paying them less and the ledbetter law signed by obama stopped that, but i digress.
the bible is man made and it's obvious why slavery was in there because they wanted something for nothing (the rightwing ...again.) the bible is a made up rule book that gets people to do whatever the group in charge wants. thats why the forefathers said separation of church and state. they knew! and thats why the rightwing fight so hard to have it entered into the gov't, cuz they know too!
there is a book called "life as a slave" that covers pretty much every aspect of it.
Does that book cover the fact that more slave were sold to white slave traders BY BLACK TRIBES that enslaved their own people, than slaves that were actually captured by white slave hunters?
schoolgirlforreal; I hope you do a great hub with all the history of slavery and the slave market that exist today. There's no need for the white guilt trip here. Research and write about it all. Good luck!
FRIENDLYWORD- what did that have to do with anything. the sellers of slaves were criminals. it's no secret, but they didn't institutionalize slavery in america. tell me who did? case closed!
like i said whenever you bring up the topic you can expect this same old blame blurring strategy.
as if selling slaves is worse then working them for 250 years!
There were very few white slave hunters. Most slave "hunting" was done by warring tribes or by Arab traders who would bring their slaves to the coast to sell to other slave traders for purchase and shipment. Many, but not all of these traders were white. Indian slavery in South America made African slaves less common. Where natives had died out or been absorbed into the colonial society were African slaves used - the Caribbean islands and the South American coast.
"the institution was put in place in america by rightwing whites"
I read that much and didn't need to read any further.
There was no such thing as right wing/left wing.
In America it was put in place by main stream whites.
That was the practice then, they weren't considered any more or any less than cattle or mules.
Next you will tell us its George Bush's fault.
It was wrong then and its wrong now.
it was before we coined the phrase rightwing but thats who they were!
and the bushs' dont get me started. savings and loan,iran contra, stolen election. you try to defend that family? ha ha ha
No it wasn't.
It was whomever could afford a slave.
Well attacking the Bush family is certainly on topic for this thread...oh, wait a minute, not it's not
You may be interested in the following:
"Roger Williams (circa 1603 – between January and March 1683) was an American Protestant theologian, and the first American proponent of religious freedom and the separation of church and state. In 1636, he began the colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, which provided a refuge for religious minorities. Williams started the First Baptist Church in America Providence before leaving to become a Seeker. He was a student of Native American languages and an advocate for fair dealings with Native Americans."
There's more information there and a list of resources you can check for further information on the actual history of the separation of church and state. That is, if you are interested in researching history rather than just swallowing what you want to believe.
well first of all i actually researched the bible. it all boils down to blind obedience, fear and 10% of your income. ayand it is a belief based on . . . nothing more. the forefathers new this and offered "no respect" for it.by creating something called the first ammendment! read it, then tell me what you think "respect" means and what you think it means when someone gives you no respect, then get back to me. you might wanna read my hub my search for god. prove it wrong . . .please!
You haven't said anything in this post about the separation of church and state or the fact that the first proponent of it in America was a Christian minister - a pastor - a man who followed and believed and taught the Bible.
Your own research into the Bible is your path, and I have no reason to argue that with you. I do dispute your original description of the reason why the forefathers first began thinking about the concept of separation of church and state. That historical fact is totally separate from your conclusions about the Bible.
If you have any information about Roger Williams in your Hub, I will be happy to read it. Otherwise, sorry.
Maybe this part can be taken over to the religion forum by both of you where I will enjoy ignoring it?
well i punched him up . his entire life! he was an actor. he started in the church in england as a teenager. i think the 1st ammendment confirms what i've said. these were diplomats that used words very clearly and effectively. without insulting anyone by stating why they wouldn't allow religion to be connected. they clearly stated " congress shall make no law respecting... what else do you need?
Separation of Church and State wasn't intended to protect people from religion, but to protect religion (and its people) from the government.
it said "congress shall make no law respecting..." with that statement it sounds like to them religion lacked enough validity to become part of the gov't. thats a clever turn on words, is the glass half full or half empty. this allows an individual to think the answer is whatever they want it to be. i guess the forefathers didn't care as long as it remained seperate ha ha ha
Just for clarification: there are at least 14 different men of note who had or have the name Roger Williams. There was an actor who lived 1889-1939; the theologian who hounded the colonial authorities to keep church and state separate lived from about 1603 to 1683. If you have found evidence of any acting in the life of the theologian Roger Williams (1603-1683), please provide the link so that I may correct my inadequate information.
Sadly, I must say goodbye for now. Sleep calls. I will be happy to further discuss our misconceptions about history later this week.
i just read part of it, it's too long but what did you not agree with, that i said? puritans were the ones to begin killing the indians and they slaughtered them, the bible is what was used to burn witches in salem. thats exactly where this guy lived.first a puritan and then moved to salem. maybe it has to be spelled out to you why we have separation of church and state. and he said englands church was corrupt and he needed to start a new church, yeah murdering.but, that wasn't corrupt, that was in the name of the lord.
Slavery was put into effect LONG before America was discovered. Not only whites were guilty, either.
I would agree with this - There have been slaves thoughout history, the west coast of England was terrorised by Moor (black) traders who would capture 'English' and sell them all over the world. The Romans were big on it and had many inventive ways of treating them from the horrific to very civilized.
True. Native Americans often turned members of other tribes into slaves, also. Sometimes they were treated well and were allowed to assimilate into their new tribe, but sometimes they were treated like animals.
Not only throughout history but in all parts of the world
why are you repeating what I said ? History - England - Moors - Romans - kinda covers it I think.
Oh yeah - I forgot - I have an agenda and you know what I am thinking and deliberately doing - so weird !
sab oh knows everything . .about . .everything
I wouldn't say he knows everything.
But at least he knows something.
I agree with Joe here.
Also - slavery is made possible in the first place by making people 'other' black was easier to make 'other' in a white society, it might have been red except that race proved to be unsuited to manual labour and died pretty quick in captivity.
Colonialisation also requires the people to be thought of as 'other'. We find many 'other' names for anyone who does not agree with our narrow cultural group - then confuse them with political parties, religions, races and genders.
What gets me is how most of our founding fathers owned slaves and accepted slavery as part of "normal" society. How could they create "the land of the free" if they thought slavery was okay?
thats what gets everybody too. jefferson has a white side and a black side of the family.as do most of the forefathers. they spoke out of both sides of their mouth. though shalt not steal: they were stealing, thou shalt not kill; they were killing, even genocide on the indians. man shall earn by the sweat from his brow;they didn't, do unto others as you would have others do unto you; they didn't ...ever!
they have two sets of rules. one tells people to walk around like sheep, while the other says steal, kill and abuse like crazy
By making 'others' - then they could exclude them from any idea of them as people in their freedom - you are right it was common then, and it still is now. If Americans did not think of Islam as 'other' - and the people of Iraq as somehow not quite 'people' then it would be hard to sit back and watch that devastation with dispassion. If the kids throwing rocks at armoured cars were blond blue eyed Americans then they would be 'seen' differently and get a different reaction.
The American Constitution has the same issue as the Magna Carta, they were both written by the elite of their day and they meant themselves and people like them. The Magna Carta that is vaunted as freedom style document is actually just the Barons rejecting some of the authority of Government, the King.
What about a British slave trader, married to an African princess who eventually had slaves of her own in Florida while under Spanish rule?
You speak my language china man!
Just wrote a hub bout it! Like to hear it, here it goes....!
But unfortunately, it is against HP policy to promote my own hub!
In living color
Exactly, Jim! You're smarter than you look!
This comment wasn't needed or appropriate.
But it was kind of funny.
Just an old saying of my dad's, Jim! LOL! Another was "two heads are better than one, even if one of them is a goat head!" He was usually referring to me with the last one!
Ive used it a time or twenty.
My feelings are not so easily hurt.
Now, if you were to talk about my hunchback that would be a different kettle of fish altogether.
I would never mention it, Quasimodo!
I can't be bothered to scroll right up past the troll comments - so will respond here.
Just been across to your slave hub and St George's Island - really good read Randy, well researched and excellent presentation. Is that the St George's Island that has the Hospital University now ?
No, China Man! The island itself is only about 1000 acres which is now the Timucuan Preserve. It is located at Mayport on the St. John's river near Jacksonville.
Thanks for checking the hub!
Dare I say that slavery is akin to the slavery of the unborn.
Both had no rights, both were tortured, both owners knew they were doing something wrong but wanted it for (their) pleasure or reason or (right)......I digress but this is what I am going to write about!!!
Randy's hub about Kingsley Plantation is awesome! Read it if you get a chance!
Slave trade takes so many dimensions. It was and still is a social evil that robbed Africa of its greatest resource. On the African continent slave trade is largely associated with the Arabs. This is so because of the cross-Atlantic trade. The europeans mainly the British used the Asians (Indians & Arabs) as brokers in this triangular trade. They looked out for men of vigor and full of youthfulness. They would put chains around their limbs and neck and make they move hundreds of miles up to the coast.
While serving on the "new colonies" of their masters, they would dig in chains with no cloth on their backs. Later-on they would attain the "surname" of their masters' dogs. This was a brief recap of slave trade then.
Today slave trade manifests itself in so many forms. One, capitalism; master-servant relationship. The grotesque gap between the very developed nations who can impose trade conditions on the lesser developed nations.
Majority of mankind now survives not because he makes choices but because it is the only way he can. And that to me is slavery.
While "slavery" in terms of a person being "owned" in some sense or another by another person or group is nothing new.
However, the American version of it is indeed unique. To try to minimize the cruel and unusual treatment of West Africans by Europeans in the British colonies/U.S. by saying Africans practiced slavery is ridiculous....
Why don't we start discussing the role of specialized selective human breeding practiced by slaveowners in the United States. Let us find similar comparisions in other practices of slavery throughout history.....
And then let us compare this travesty to the backdrop of the "Christian" United States that so many "conservatives" want to return to......
If it was unique, it was only unique in terms of scale. And I do not see what is ridiculous about pointing out that slavery had died out in Europe since the fall of Rome, and only began again when Europeans arrived in Africa and found well established slave markets that had been running for thousands of years and in which they were sold slaves by Africans.
I think it is ridiculous the way it is always portrayed as white man= evil and black man= victim. That does no justice to either side. Africans were not helpless innoccent savages. They were rich slave traders too. And it was white Europeans and Americans who together put an end to African slavery that had been a part of life there since pre-history, so we weren't completely the bad guys in this story.
Sab, religious leadership was always tied with the political leadership....whether Catholic or Protestant... The system we have derived from the knowledge that the religion of the rulership was used as a tool for domination....
Spain, at least up until the 1960's, is the perfect model to compare our nation and the separation of church and state...
The state had the constitutional power to declare that Roman Catholocism was the only legal religion.... This doesn't work out to well if one is a Muslim, Jew, or Protestant... Our system was designed to ensure that minority religions, or religions not in favor by those in power, were protected from other religions.
The problem was that the faith defined the power,the faith defined who could participate and hold power, and vise versa.. Faith was used to define who was "fit" to participate...
Faith and political/governmental power were not exclusive things....I don't know how that could be argued...
Of course, when voting rights are then in the sole ownership of Protestant men, as was the case in this nation, it enables a very interesting debate as to how "separate" church and state actually was in the minds of the founding fathers..
Some people feel obligated, out of a sense of loyalty to the political identity they have chosen, to take an anti-religious stance at any and every opportunity regardless of its applicability in a given context. 'Slaves' to their own ideology if you will.
Obviously the men in power were christian and overwhelmingly methodist as you say - and not so long ago escaped from the church dominated government of Engalnd. They would have understood the dangers of allowing the church to run things, not all that long after the dark ages either where this was a totla situation. They would not have been protecting any faith or organised religion - they would have been protecting the business of state from the bigots and extremists.
Your understanding of this aspect of US history is mistaken. One should not try to impose the bias of today (and a minority one at that) on the situations of the past.
No - not mistaken. You are viewing things from your own narrow perspective, try a broader look again.
Yes mistaken. Consider the historical context. The Founders were motivated more than anything by a deep distrust of government power for obvious reasons, AND anti-religious sentiment was hardly the order of their day the way some bitter atheists would try to make it the order of this one.
The founders WERE the government ! AND they held the power, and they were religious folk in the main - You are saying they distrusted themselves ??
The whole "Africans had slaves too" thing distracts from an important issue though.
Slavery in America was a racist institution, and the legacy of that racist institution persists to the present day. What happened in ancient Rome or in Africa has minimal bearing on that fact.
American slavery was the first time that slavery was based on race, for reasons that have already been noted in this thread.
Because of this, American attitudes about race have been tainted by the legacy of slavery. That is why, after slavery was abolished, black folks were still not allowed to vote or drink from the same water fountain. It is why they have been terrorized by the white power structure (in the form of KKK and institutionalized racism) for more than 150 years after the end of slavery.
Why is it that crack cocaine has sentencing guidelines that are 10 times stricter than regular coke? Why is it that meth dealers get off easier than crack dealers?
http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaki … Crack.html
It's not slavery that's the problem, per se, it's the racism that came about through slavery.
To really understand how Christianity was used to control slaves in America, you should read Chesapeake, by James Michener. He explains how plantation owners regularly invited preachers to give sermons to the slaves, convincing them that their duty was to submit to the will of their masters and that they would be rewarded in Heaven for doing so.
Michener also explains how some Christian sects, especially the Quakers, were instrumental in helping slaves escape to Canada, placing their own lives in jeopardy.
As far as slavery goes, it brought out the best and the worst of so-called Christians.
Lincoln never owned slaves, but his wife did. He was, however, racist. Read this quote:
Lincoln said: "I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality; and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I ... am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position."
Grant did own slaves. Ironic how he fought againt the South's owning slaves.
There were all types of slave owners in this country! By that, I mean different attitudes towards the way slaves were treated by the owners. Kingsley, although a slave trader and plantation owner, believed in training slaves well and allowing them to eventually purchase their freedom from him.
Because the British and American attitudes towards slavery were more cruel than his and the Spaniards ideas, he moved his people to Haiti (Liberia it was called at the time) because of its anti-slavery laws.
Not saying Kingsley was right or any better than other slave holders, just showing how different people had different attitudes about slavery itself. Of course, greed was always involved!
There was also a colony in Africa called Liberia that was founded by freed American slaves and the American Colonization Society in 1821. I didn't know that Haiti was also called Liberia.
Kingsley called it Liberia because of the many freed slaves there! Yes, the African Liberia was similar in foundation.
Of all slaves taken from Africa at the time 7 % came to the USA .
40 % went to Brazil. And only 1 % of Americans at the time owned slaves
I've been checking these figures and discovered they are on target. Although historians disagree as to exactly which percentage of African slaves were brought to America, the range is between 4.5 and 8%. The rest went to South America and the Caribbean. So why is it that the US gets most of the blame?
oh ok well then, that certainly proves something . . . but what? lets see at it's end there were 4 million. you ever counted 4 million people? try it! course that was only 1% of the people that had slaves ha ha ha
Possibly because we were among the last country to abolish slavery and because of the books written about slavery in the United States. Uncle Tom's Cabin just to name one.
And don't forget the movies! It was also because of the way we treated slaves here. Other countries had less stringent methods. Even after the Civil War the blacks in the deep south were still controlled in an environment not much better than slavery.
What I think most scholars of race in the US would say is, it's not about "blaming" the US for slavery, but rather, about seeing the racial issues in the US as a legacy of slavery. You can't talk about race in America without looking at the history of slavery and racism (against the natives as well as against Africans).
"You can't talk about race in America without looking at the history of slavery and racism (against the natives as well as against Africans)."
You can but no liberal will ever do it.
There are no slaves left, no slave owners, just history.
We have civil rights and in some cases preferential rights.
We can bring up how the Irish were treated and the Chinese but for some reason we don't.
Slavery was and is a dark stain in our history but at some point everyone needs to realize its all done now.
If a person is mistreated in this country (regardless of color) they now have the means to gain recompense.
The Irish and Chinese were mistreated, yes. But they were marginalized for only a generation or two, and they were allowed to come here and maintain their own culture and family connections.
African slaves, on the other hand, were shipped here for almost 400 years, stripped of their culture, their religion, their language, their identity, treated as subhumans, not allowed to form families, not allowed to raise their own children, beaten and killed at will...
and you are trying to tell me that it's no big deal and we don't have to talk about it?
"the 'Chinese' were marginalized for only a generation or two"?! Are you kidding?
Trying to 'rank' grievances is a huge pitfall and in any case unnecessary.
"and you are trying to tell me that it's no big deal and we don't have to talk about it?"
I didn't say that all, talk about it until you're blue in the face.
It won't change history and it won't create a better life than the one most Americans (again regardless of color) live today.
Jim - Yes, America today is a great place to live for most people. And maybe in another few decades we will leave the legacy of slavery and racism behind - but we haven't yet.
I'm just addressing these falsehoods I keep hearing.
Example: "All nations held slaves, it's no big deal."
Ok then: "My neighbor beats his wife and sodomizes his kids, so it's ok for me to do it too..."
Example: "Hey, poor white folks had it bad too, so you black folks should stop bitching"
Ok then: "Hey, I got spanked as a kid - so the fact that you were beaten and locked in a closet for 3 days is no big deal. Stop whining."
I haven't seen any of those arguments.
Are we reading different threads?
Again, I have not seen any of those arguments.
Are we reading different threads?
As a hub though the info should be neither racial, nor prejudicial in its orientation. Just write fluff and leave room for comments so that every reader will add something. Then it will take on a life of it's own.
The whole topic is so not what should be at issue right now. There are many well said, Correct, comments on this issue here as it relates to America and other countries. I do wish someone would write a hub and refuse to denigrate, indict, point -- at Americans as the boogey man. There is this wierd short term memory in this highly enlightened computer age of the ultimate long term memory - it's influenced mostly by liberal Dems who wish to rewrite history not only for the USA, but for the world, to suit their agenda.
Slavery was a very bad thing, and thank God that it was abolished, don't thank Allah, as Allah was on board and had zero to do with the movement in the USA to abolish slavery, Allah countries liked the trade in humans, no matter the color -- and I don't doubt would even today given the chance based on what we know of many Islamic countries and their opinions of infidels, etc.........okay, so shoot me for saying that.....
Pointing out that America has racial problems as a result of its legacy of slavery is not the same as saying "Americans are the boogeyman".
EDIT: oh, and funny how you are complaining about America being called a boogeyman and then you turn around and try to make Islam the boogeyman. Double standards much?
I am glad that I grew up in a USA where there has been a mixture of skin colors and ethnic cultures - the colors more than just cultures, actually. I deplore the fact that the mixture had such horrifying and dehumanizing origins. I deplore all of the evils that have been perpetrated throughout the years by the dominant group (generally the one I belong to) on other groups within the country. But I do know that my life has been incredibly enriched by the fact that our society is not homogeneous and monolithic.
I wish that any of us had some way of going back and changing the past. We don't, so far as I know. The only way that I know of to make changes is through what we do now and going forward.
Slavery is alive and well. Slave, meet slave. Tied as we are to the corporations, we are allowed only enough to keep us happy, we are deceived about how good/ bad things are. All those who are in control worry about is the profit margin. That determines wether or not to use the whip. If things fall apart catastrophically, we slaves will be left to fend for ourselves. (Determined, of course, by the relative value that is placed on that particular slave) You can bet your bottom dollar that whatever slaves survive, will be given all the dirty work to do.
This thread is about literal slavery, not anti-capitalist metaphors or hyperbole. I personally find it incredibly offensive that some would diminish the reality of human beings would did (and do) suffer under ACTUAL slavery through facile, politically-motivated and false relativism. It sickens me, in fact.
A slave is a slave. Just because you define yourself as being "Free" You are a slave. House slaves were usually quite comfy.
May I add, down right slavery, is at its highest ever in history.
Mostly in Asia.
Power to the people, not the greedy!
"down right slavery, is at its highest ever in history.
Mostly in Asia"
Obviously such a claim cannot be proven, but do you have any support for it?
I personally have seen it with my own eyes first hand. along with
According to Anti-Slavery International, the world's oldest human rights organization, there are currently over 20 million people in bondage.
Human bondage in Africa, Asia, and the Dominican Republic
slavery. At this moment, millions of men, women, and children are being held against their will as modern-day slaves because of the debts owed their masters public perception of modern slavery is often confused with reports of workers in low-wage jobs or inhumane working conditions. However, modern-day slaves differ from these workers because they are actually held in physical bondage (they are shackled, held at gunpoint, etc.)..
Where did you see it with your own eyes, and do you have a link to that org?
Traveled all Continents, except Antarctica, Centro Africa and Southern parts of Africa. Travel still often, not up to date on half of the places.
I just gave you a link
For the rest of us, where is the link?
google Anti-Slavery International
Calling it by its correct name would help to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. This is a helpful reference that you have given, but it is not a link.
Quoting would also be more helpful, since other posts can intervene between the writing, sending, and appearance of a post.
Not according to Anti-Slavery International, referenced by Castlepaloma above.
So, where exactly did you see it with your own eyes?
Sab Oh. Do you watch CNN? Larry King, Sanjay Gupta, and Anderson Cooper have all had recent shows centering on real modern day slavery. And, incidentally, The slavery I addressed before is very real. Your failure to perceive that reality depresses me, because most of the world is in very real bondage.
"because most of the world is in very real bondage."
No it isn't.
Slave. Working for pennies in a chinese factory when your product is fetching top dollar in your reality, is slavery. Millions of latinos working at your lowest paying jobs are taken advantage of because of their legal status. Denied all benefits, working ridiculous overtime, no health coverage, can't even get unemployment when they lose a job. The move is on to deny schooling for their young and any other government benefits. These are not just american problems. Change the ethnicity, and you are talking about most of the Western world. 6 billion plus people, and the figures on how many are living in poverty are astounding. Poverty, my friend is slavery. I stand by my statement.
Stand by it if you want.
Slaves don't get paid.
Its the greatest killer of all time. Some, call it crowd control.
"Working for pennies in a chinese factory when your product is fetching top dollar in your reality, is slavery"
It most certainly is NOT.
REAL, ACTUAL, NON-METPHORICAL slavery is NOT the same as working a low-paying job ( often in a low cost of living environment) or not receiving the benefits and insurance that workers in other countries/labor markets do.
I guess the suffering of real human beings under real slavery just isn't as important to some people as making some cheap, predictable, banal political statement.
"Poverty, my friend is slavery"
I am not your friend, and NO, it is NOT. Dismissing the reality of ACTUAL slavery to make some shallow political point is essentially the same as spitting on those who did and do suffer under the real horror of real slavery and is DISGRACEFUL and inhuman.
I'm quite aware that slavery still exists, thanks. And let me reiterate that diminishing the suffering of human beings under ACTUAL slavery just to make some banal anti-capitalist comment is DISGRACEFUL.
Do either of you know anything about how blacks here in the US were intentionally kept in poverty so that the white man could maintain control over every aspect of their lives? And, a GOOD Master always took care of his slaves (An unhealthy slave can't work) Housing, food, clothing, medical needs. So your contention is that slaves don't get paid? A GOOD master, is still a SLAVE master. And Sab Oh, just because we perceive a difference between your idea of slavery and mine, is no reason to get in a huff. I just think that you are not looking at the whole picture. Still didn't answer my question about CNN, and from your statements, I'm beginning to think you are poorly informed.
"So your contention is that slaves don't get paid?"
Its not my contention its just a fact.
It's white BS. From one white guy to another.
Oh brother, wasn't this turn just too predictable...
Who said I was white?
I think you can ask anybody and they will tell you slaves don't get paid.
Otherwise you are just a low wage earner.
But not a slave.
i think you guys are splitting hairs and looking for the exact definitions of the word or phrase. slaves got no pay. lived in a shack and was fed. low wage earner, lives in a shack and is fed. he does have choices. he can do whatever he can pay for. which takes him right back to no choices
"i think you guys are splitting hairs and looking for the exact definitions of the word or phrase."
Hey Joe, words mean things.
Would you compare the plight of slaves in 1860 to be the same as an illegal immigrant in 2010?
I certainly hope not.
no there is absolutely no comparison. families torn apart women raped at will, a felony to read or write, had to look at the ground when talking to them etc. etc... but i think he was casually speaking, not to take anything from slavery.but i think he has a clear definition now though ha ha ha
" just because we perceive a difference between your idea of slavery and mine"
It is not a matter of your "idea."
The word has a meaning and is not subject to redefinition to fit your politics.
"Still didn't answer my question about CNN, and from your statements, I'm beginning to think you are poorly informed."
CNN?! Wow, you must have some kind of special credentials to access such an elite source of truth and knowledge (like, maybe, turning on the TV).
"Do you watch CNN?"
"poorly informed" = doesn't swallow callous liberal hyperbole and false relativism
Slaves are slaves, and Massas are Massas. Massa can't let the slave know he's a slave. That will really screw things up.
"Slaves are slaves, and Massas are Massas. Massa can't let the slave know he's a slave. That will really screw things up."
Translation- "I'm wrong and will never admit it"
Enough of this disrespectful, irrational NONSENSE. It is making me sick.
Stop reading it and arguing about it then.
Sab Oh, I merely include more people into the equation. You accuse me falsely. The "haves" are the masters. This was true in Ur, Babylon, Assyria, Egypt, Rome, all of Europe, and the United States. It was true in China, Africa and any other place where slaves were. You either have a Master, or you are a slave. In this country, when you make out a job application and get a job, SOME employers act like you are theirs to command 24/7 365 a yr, and if you aren't, you are filling out more applications. This is even more prevalent when so many are unemployed. Just because some slaves do better than others, doesn't make them any less enslaved. I just don't hold back. I believe that your statements are not looking at the broader issues which contributes to this. children are sold by their parents to provide food for those remaining in the household. In the U.S. it is also connected to the rampant meth problem. CASE: Mother sells daughter for meth! recently in the news which is on the TV which you might watch. (Don't watch CNN, you might become INFORMED!)
So are you saying the Mother is the slave? The daughter, yes!
The mother - yes, but only in a metaphorical way. Addictions are enslaving, but there are many avenues and many organizations that exist to help people escape that kind of enslavement - which in many instances is a result of willing choices. Some of the metaphorical slavery that you are lumping together with literal slavery is not the result of conscious choices, but instead the result of the circumstances of birth and economy.
But whether hairs are being split or not, there are differences between literal and metaphorical slavery.
People, if we fail to look at the broad issues that effect the subject of slavery, then discussing it is superfluous. Why is it that when a black person says "Abject poverty is slavery!" it's just fine. Most of the world lives in that poverty. Need I list the nations where this is true? I do not speak metaphorically. Attitudes can also enslave. You are convinced that you are not a slave, or someone "under" you is not a slave. OK, it isn't up to me to disturb your fragile reality. I apologize. Prostitution is another form that enslavement takes. Prostitutes get paid. Maybe you believe yourself not to be a slave. You're still a prostitute.
In total 270 million people, most of them women and children, have died as a result of poverty suffering disproportionately from hunger or even starvation, disease and lower life expectancy. According to the World Health Organization, hunger and malnutrition are the single gravest threats to the world's public health and malnutrition is by far the biggest contributor to child mortality, present in half of all cases. Every year nearly 11 million children living in poverty die before their fifth birthday. 1.02 billion people go to bed hungry every night. Over 100 million street children worldwide.
Have a nice day
Black and White are not skin tones. Ever see a man the color of this page? Or a woman as dark as this text?
Answer is no.
My wife has been called an apple, cause she is red on the outside and white on the inside. I can verify that it's not true.
Off subject. Sorry. Not about race, not about color. Slavery is the subject.
i got to . but everybody was not paying no $ and i so i got 1.00 dollers on my pay cheak well so my brother go's on lots og games family .ca y8.com poptropica.com but i never did that? welll so what did you get on your bill
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