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Do you hate America?
Do other Nations hate America?
My questions are fueled by some discussion around here, in which I was told that most Countries hate us. (The implied accusation was that it's America's fault.)
And also by the current fad of even some Americans cutting their own Country down.
Anyone who feels that way should own up to it. (And then hopefully leave the Country, or leave the Country alone, IMO).
Anyone who feels that other Nations hate us, please say why and post evidence if possible.
Most countries don't hate the US. Most respect the US. We aren't popular in many of the muslim countries. BTW, I assume you're referring to public opinion.
Well, Muslim countries have religious and political leanings that are diametrically opposed to America's. So it's just common sense that we can't and shouldn't be buddy-buddy with them.
But why is it common sense?
I count amongst my close friends people of different political and religious leanings to me.
Really? That would truly not be a Christian thing to do. Last time I checked, that is what our Country stood on. We should turn the other cheek? No. Every Country has a right to there own political leanings; therefore because we disagree does not mean we should ignore them. In every Country there are great people who may not like there countries policies so because a person is Muslim persay does not mean they are tyrants.
FYI: I Love our Country but do not always care for its political actions.
I didn't say they're all tyrants.
I said our views are opposed to each other.
Therefore, it's better to maintain a separation.
If that means ignoring them, what's wrong with that?
I don't agree with some of America's policies either, and those are subject to reform and change through our system of government, so that's a good thing. But most of our policies have been based on common sense and patriotism. When a leader of ours leads us wrong, that's when I have no problem saying I hate his policies and ways; but I still don't hate America.
Ignoring a Country and turning our backs is not what America stands for, regardless of what another's religious beliefs and political leanings are. Isn't our motto, "In God We Trust?" We are a strong nation of people who can overcome any indifference and although it may appear that we as a Country are losing that fuzzy wuzzy feeling of being an American. I believe there is not one American citizen who would not back there Country if they had to. We may feel our songs are lost,etc. but deep in our souls, we are proud people and would never choose to be anything different. It is the sign of the times that is all it is.
Well, you've got more faith in people than I do.
I can't trust them to back the "In God we Trust" motto when they deny it's even our motto!
And I'm not worried about indifference from other Nations. If you mean the feeling of love we have for our Country, then yes, that seems to be becoming lost by many Americans. We should retain that even in times of peace, not just return to it in times of attacks.
Do you think the anti-war activists are gonna back our Country if it gets down to the nitty-gritty? Obviously not!
Anti-war activists? mmmmmm.... one would never know unless something really happened and someone told them to bare arms and start fighting. If it were between life and death, I would say some would stand up and change there minds, while others would run for cover! We always have shakers and movers, so it would depend on which one they were.
I am a UK citizen who lives in China. Living and working overseas for most of my life gives me a more 'international' view of things than many people.
Does the world hate America ? My experience over the years is that, from the Vietnam war onward, more and more people stopped 'liking' America. The situation of the US being generally 'liked' after the second war changed dramatically in the face of the vast atrocity in Vietnam and Laos. The inability of such a clearly powerful nation to beat the Vietnamese, despite killing over 6 million people, dropping over 2 million metric tons of bombs on them, etc., caused most people in the world to examine the whole situation and the US became generally to be seen as a bully and world aggressor. The aggressive foreign policies of the US since that time are generally thought to be more about making money for the American arms industry than any other single reason, and your military is seen as too big and with too much say in your politics.
I have commented elsewhere on the reaction of the Northern Irish to 9/11 that I witnessed, much of the world did not share American feelings about that event, the overwhelming comment was that the US deserved it in some way. This is a direct result of US foreign policy.
This does not mean that Americans are hated as individual people, if anything, the low opinion most US travellers outside the US have of their own country endears them to others in ways that the arrogant complacency of the past never could.
I meet American visiting Professors frequently. Most of them only want to talk about their shock at discovering how most people are angry at America, at how the 'special' status they remember from their post-grad 'travelling' days no longer exists.
Someone made spurious comments about China. From my experience here, most Chinese have an ambiguous attitude to the US. Those people who have any interest outside of their daily lives - which is not very many - mostly look at America as a friend and example to follow in many areas, but are generally disgusted at what are perceived to be very low moral values and very very wary about the US getting too close. This is understandeable given the US aggressive foreign policy and the constant attacks on China in the western media, some which are justified but many that are just constructed nonsense.
I have not met any traveller in recent years, from any country, who does not criticise US foreign policy. The only Americans I have met in recent years who are not openly critical of US foreign policy are proselytising christians.
Well, finally, thanks for the response. Glad it made it over the wallow of thread-hijacking attempts!
So, once again, you're saying that the ones who do hate America still blame it on America?! And that visiting Americans actually fuel that type of opinion.
So tell me---can a person living in China openly criticize Chinese policies? Or not?
Most people do not like America - this does not translate as 'hate' - that is just emotive rhetoric in an attempt to get support.
I personally cannot begin to understand how anyone would not see the world-wide condemnation of US foreign policy as 'your fault'. If you attack other countries, and fund terrorism against others, you must expect some kind of retaliation.
China and its policies are nothing to do with this discussion - you have dropped it in as more rhetoric to blur the discussion.
Not at all.
It's very important for Americans to know what other Nations think of them. And vice-versa, actually. Yet it seems to be only America that gets put under the fire of public opinion and blamed for everything.
Let's go back to the Vietnam point.
It's my understanding that America was being faithful to a Treaty between us and South Vietnam.
Were you suggesting in your post that we should've been able to wipe out the opposing troops in a more timely fashion? Or that we should've broken our word and never held to the Treaty?
Strange how an agreement with a fascist style dictator is worth more to you than 6 million dead people.
Hey, I was just asking about Vietnam since you brought it up! I personally am not learned about the subject. I just remember hearing about how our American soldiers were shunned and mocked when they returned home. All for doing their duty as soldiers! And by other Americans! Now that was a horrible injustice. Maybe the count of lives lost on both sides were too, I dunno! But when liberal anti-war activists cause even more heartache for American soldiers who were simply doing their jobs, it gives me pause to wonder who the real haters were and are.
You asked why Americans are hated. Vietnam is one reason.
The so-called war in Vietnam was a disaster that included the illegal American carpet bombing of Laos - a country which had nothing to do with it all except that it had no military strength to defend itself and so was 'used' by all parties. 6 million people lost their lives (about the same as the Jewish 'holocaust') during the total period of American involvement, by definition over 5 million of them (at least) must have been totally innocent civilians. The US lost a few hundred thousand soldiers, I believe between two and three hundred thousand.
The revulsion of the AMERICAN public was actually disgust with itself, this spilled over, as you say, into direct revulsion with the Vietnam vets. This was totally unjustified as most of the troops were conscripted against their will.
Interestingly, from my recent trip down there, the Vietnamese seem to like Americans generally. And most American visitors there are shocked and horrified by the reality presented in the 'war' museums and vast cemeteries in photographs and remains. It appears that even now the truth of Vietnam is not well known in the States, or taught in your schools very well as part of your history.
If you think that the reaction of the American public to your 'boys' is the horrific part, and not the wholesale slaughter of over 5 million people you need to get your priorities sorted.
War between Nations has been a fact of life, still is.
Recognizing that fact doesn't make me non-compassionate.
Sometimes war is justified.
If Vietnam wasn't justifiable, then I can understand people's shame about it. But as I said, I cannot understand the hatred toward American troops. Nor toward America's willingness to keep their word to another Nation in order to obliterate Communist tyranny over people.
The point is that the Vietnam 'war' was NOT justified - which resulted in the self-disgust of the American people. And as I said, your own people's disgust toward a few American troops is no balance to the unneccesary 6 million dead innocent people. A similar number to those Jews killed in the 'justified' second world war ! Your moral contortions are amazing to watch !
Then you try to further justify it all by the redundant and ridiculous claim as the obliteration of communism !! you lost remember !
All this moral somersaulting and strange twisting of realities is what prevents you seeing the awful chasm beneath your words - you can talk about Communist 'tyranny' but are unable to see the tyranny in your own system that takes your country unwilling to war, has murdered millions of people in Vietnam and Laos, and more recently in Iraq and South America.
All you can offer is some trivial period when your soldiers bore the contempt of the US for doing their duty, you still do not see that this was caused by your own tyrannical government !
The problem is that with primacy comes power, and with power comes colonization and violence. You as a Brit should understand that better than anyone (although you're oddly not likely to admit it as much these days).
I actually think that relative peace will happen when we don't have one dominating force on the planet, a multipolar world.
I am the first to admit Britains horrendous past in regards to colonisation, and I am the first to criticise the current re-colonisation of Libya masked as 'liberation' that is putting a gang of thugs into power who are dependant on the UK and France rather than the
previous thugs who stood up to colonialisation.
Relative peace will come when the US with its UK crony cannot afford to create so many wars around the world and some return to diversity and living daily life as a right can resume.
And that was just in the last year! And the UK and France aren't the colonial powers they once were; they still colonize and commit violence much above their punching weight, and not always with the US's directives in mind. Imagine how bad it was when the UK (and France) really were world powers...well, imagination isn't necessary; we have history books.
And then we'll have China. Does human history suggest it will be any different? If you ask its neighbors, the answer is an emphatic "no."
Well you might like to investigate that a little further. China does not have a history of expansion and colonisation - even before the western colonialisation of parts of China and the Japanese takeover of most of those areas in the 30's. It could be argued that Tibet is the exception to the rule, we have our understanding of it, the Chinese claim that the area has always been under some kind of rule by China, whichever is the most or least true it is certain that tactically China needs the Tibetan Plateau as it would provide the perfect platform for any invading army from the west.
Did I miss any other Chinese colonialisations in the past thousand years or so ?
It is my personal belief that China will be a better bet as the dominant nation than the gangsters who run, and have run, our western nations when they supercede the US in the next few years.
Yes, you did. Talk to the Indians and Vietnamese. You might also talk to the Taiwanese as well about China's territorial ambitions. Keep in mind China is still relatively poor and is in its building phase. The US used to adhere to the Monroe Doctrine, too.
Your personal beliefs might be valid. Or they might not be. That's the thing about beliefs.
At any rate, you hold a foreign passport so you have an "out" should you be wrong.
Can you enlighten me in regard to India and Vietnam ? I did hear of Chinese ransacking cities in Laos but not sure in what period, and there have always been border squabbles with Vietnam including one recently - I only really know about that because I met the commander of that episode at dinner about six months ago !
Why is obliterating or trying to obliterate communism a "ridiculous" claim?
And how is the loss of life and limbs of American soldiers "trivial"?
I'm not the one who's non-compassionate about both sides of the issue!
It's you who seems to blame it all on America.
What is it that you'd prefer everyone does? Abolish war? That would be a good thing! Except for the fact that there are times when physical fighting becomes necessary.
Let me ask you this-----what about the use of drone attacks? That cuts down on the loss of life. And eventually, maybe, it could lead to just a fight between material possessions of each Nation. However, "land" and possessions are sometimes the livelihood of people! And, doesn't it become totally meaningless if we're just shooting at each other's targets by the time all the Nations abolish war as we know it? What, to you, IS worth fighting for? Anything?
The Communist issue is dead, Communism is changing and evolving into something else, if it has not already done so. What is emerging is a different kind of Capitalism to the American model where a few get everything and the rest can go fight for them.
The loss of American soldiers is not trivial, the ISSUE is trivial compared to the vast numbers of innocent dead. Unless you are telling me that a few thousand Americans are worth 6 million 'foreigners' ?
Your own horrendous track record regarding compassion makes your use of the word here a joke ! Compassion comes from the understanding that both sides have losses that are to be regretted, idiocy creeps in when you try to blame others for actions of your troops on the other side of the world to America in a country that never attacked or threatened America in any way !!
I have not blamed 'everything' on America - you should really stop using offensive emotive language to mask your poor argument. YOU posed the question 'why do people hate America' and I am trying to help you understand why. Attacking me is childish behaviour.
I didn't ask why people hate America. I asked IF people hate America.
Quite a difference there; so please stand corrected; and you're welcome in advance.
I guess this means you concede that I am right then. Admitting that you have been educated is good for you, it means that we move on to other subjects and discuss those also. Refusing to admit when you are wrong is a clear indication of a closed mind.
Excellent post and echos my experiences in China and southeast Asia in recent years. I remember talking with some folks in Laos after 9/11. The general comment I kept hearing was "som nom nah". Loosely translates to "What goes around comes around" or "Serves ya Right". The growing disdain I've seen recently in Asian countries is related more to financial issues. Money troubles in the US economy have hit hard in many of those places, and people get angry when you hit them in the pocketbook.
I think you are right about the growing disdain, and you have to be able to afford that kind of luxury. Most of these nations are in the newly formed ASEAN free trade group and, despite the genuine caution in respect of letting a big neighbour get too close, they are rapidly re-aligning their fortunes away from the west.
On the wider scale they are well aware that they got colonisation and bombs from the west and (so far at least) have got roads, bridges, harbours and hospitals from the east.
I think it depends on which countries we speak of, as it's no secret that many countries hate us. Hell, there's some terrorists groups like the Al Quada that see us as the evil empire because many nations see us as a world full of pompous spoiled brats. Hell, even my mother tells me that before she was adopted into the U.S. as a little girl, she thought the U.S. was like Disney land. Therefore, it wouldn't be too surprising if many nations see us as the spoiled rich kid that has everything. Not saying that's a fair analogy, but I'm just stating an observation. Plus, you have to remember the U.S. has made it a bit of a habit to get involved in other countries' affairs that might rub a lot of nations the wrong way, while blindly ignoring the troubles of other countries that could sorely use the help of the United States.
Sure, we can preach all we want about how America promotes freedom and democracy. And sure we can buy into George W. Bush's speech about how the war in Iraq was really over operation freedom of Sadam's tyranny.... However, if that's the case, then why is he the only evil dictator that the United States is concerned about? Aren't there other evil dictators in the world that the U.S. could help vanquish? As Recommend pointed out, we're not exactly saints here, so I think it would naive for us to believe that America has always been righteous in their actions.
Look, I'm not saying that America is evil, as we have done a lot of good for other countries as well, but I can see how other countries can see us that way.
If you're asking me if I hate this country, I honestly don't. Sure, there's many things about this country that I highly disagree with, but there's other things that i love about it as well. But then again, you can say that about any country, as they all have their good and bad points.
I think the original poster has an issue which is more to do with how she probably hates anyone in or out of US who disagrees with her own fairly constricted views on who or what people believe in. It's a veiled attempt to promote a view that is clearly the opposite of what US public are feeling about their country and who's responsible for the national discomfort. A lot of self inflicted injuries happening here.
I don't hate the USA but we have given many other countries and people pause to like us. Just look at our hand in the overthrow of foreign governments such as Russia 1945-1989, Iran 1953, Tibet 1950's, Guatemala 1954, Cuba 1959, The Congo 1960, Iraq 1963, Brazil 1964, Ghana 1966, Iraq 1968, Chile 1973, Afghanistan 1973-1974, Iraq 1973-1975, Argentina 1976, Afghanistan 1978-1980's, Iran 1980, Nicaraqua 1981, El Salvador 1980-1992, Cambodia 1980-1985, Angola 1980's, Phillipines 1986, Iraq 1992-1995, Guatamala 1993, Serbia 2000, Venezuela 2002, Haiti 2004, Somalia 2006-2007, Iraq 2001-present have always been in our covert cross hairs and usually not under our control. Displacing people for our own "Intrerests" as the politicians like to say are not of the highest moral caliber.
We hate to be reminded of our dirty little secrets and champion our triumphs like it is a score card that erases our wrongs.
I think Americans are some of the most caring and big hearted people who come together in crisis to share in the labors set ahead of them. I think our government is a stinking slime pit of criminals who are out for their own gain no matter who it hurts as long as they can deny it and get re-elected.
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
"If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interest, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution, in favor of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law, in preference to all private and partial considerations... And that the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of history... To remedy the dangers attendant upon the arbitrary use of power, checks, however multiplied, will scarcely avail without an explicit admission some limitation of the right of the majority to excercise sovereign authority over the individual citizen... In popular governments [democracies], minorities [individuals] constantly run much greater risk of suffering from arbitrary power than in absolute monarchies..." John Adams
Imagine a young cousin who is full of potential, but continually does things that limits that potential or does harm to others. This tendency for self-sabotage is sad and frustrating for onlookers who hope these are just problems of youth, and that one day she'll mature into the outstanding person she can be.
In the meantime people make their feelings known when she does things they don't approve of and can be quite vociferous in their criticism. But even so they are rooting for her. Willing her to overcome the internal problems that trouble her.
She was born out of hope, and a desire for freedom which are universal human attributes. So she is a symbol of hope and freedom. For those who value those things her successes are a success for us all. Her distress distressing to us all. In my experience those that criticise her do so either because they know she can be better, and really want her to be, or because she symbolises something they (for one reason or another) are not currently able to be.
I say the police here hate the USA...beating up on protestors to serve their corporate masters.......they never touched a hair on the head of the Tea Party!
Police Hate the USA.
My twitter is FULL of videos of police brutality.
google it yo-self.
WE are the enemy! Get it??
I don't hate America. But, I think it should stick to the west and ditch the east (in global terms)!
I LOVE the US, and feel there is no place like it.
Those who hate it has never spent any time here or they are brainwashed.
Many have told me they are taught that Americans are told to say they love the U.S.
But when they moved here they found that nothing negative said about us was true.
I read a note from a friend that the "Hostel" series was about anti American hatred, which was an interesting take on the matter.
I think that there are pockets of resentment and hatred that come from our mistakes and adventures in the world.
I seriously doubt that, before Bush II, there was anything but overall admiration for our society and opportunities in life. Now that we are in decline, the attitudes might be changed.
I am a true blue Canadian but absolutely have no ill feelings towards our neighbor or say big brother.
It is great to know that we have some one that would help us if push came to shove in very difficult times.
Of course there is the fun of sporting events like when US beats Canada in hockey or vice versa. Of course at that moment I dont like the USA
How ever overall I am very proud to be a Canadian and proud to have the USA as my neighbor
My nation was bombed by NATO in 1999 and mostly American airplanes from carriers, but I don't hate you. I don't love generalizing individuals by the deeds that have been done by their country.
I don't hate the USA but I have hated their foreign policy, that said I've also hated my own countries foreign policy. There you go
I don't think so. For many decades it was the greatest example of free spirit, adventure, family devotion, great accomplishments, etc. And envy. Though sometimes envy brings hatred, I know.
I was talking about the USAs and indeed the UKs foriegn policy, not domestic policy. As my own countries foreign policy was on a par with the USA, it was hardly a cause of envy. The USA and UK may have, in your opinion, achieved a free spirit, family devotion etc (although that is debatable) but their foreign policy has not always allowed that for other nations.
Thanks Dale and everyone else for your answers.
I do believe America has had, does have, and will always have enemies. I'm just trying to get an understanding of how much of that is National and how much is individuals or groups. What concerns me the most is the liberal idea that it's okay to claim rights to that hatred openly and publicly without retribution of some sort.
I Like Her!
We got our faults...compounded by the Wars we have been in. War has compounded many of the issues...as War naturally does. UUUH...Because War is Bad to begin with!
However...that being said...I must certainly wonder if those that hate us...would not run to us for help...in time of crisis?
Who do you mean by those who hate us? It doesn't seem like anyone in this post hates US citizens.
In reference to Brenda's part of the post where she says: "My questions are fueled by some discussion around here, in which I was told that most Countries hate us. (The implied accusation was that it's America's fault.)"
That is to whom and what I refer to...not "anyone in this post"...as you have stated.
I think they have, and do, and would run to us for help. That's the kicker.
Should we continue to help those who are our enemies?
I also wonder....does China hate us?
Hey manlypoetryman, I love the flag you posted. For some reason, it isn't appreciated as much as it used to be. And neither are patriotic songs. Evidence of domestic haters I think.
Maybe there not haters but challengers to certain policies, all countries have challengers, that 's good isn't it? Do you ever challenge your government?
I sometimes challenge the policies of course. But there really wasn't much need for that until the current Administration took over. Anyone who advocates bringing down the very foundation of America is an enemy to America.
Well, I find that a bit odd, don't you? knowing what you know now about Bush and, well, the lack of WMD's that you only find the present Government to be questionable.??
For one thing, I had (and no American had) no question about whether Bush was an American citizen. So we knew we could trust him (if we could trust anyone at all) to keep America's interests at the forefront. I believe Bush did what he thought was right. And actually, what WAS right, as best anyone can make those decisions.
If you want to question anyone's foreign policies, you should question Obama's invasion of Libya. He played a game there instead of having a patriotic reason to even consider that invasion. Unlike Bush, who was put into a position where National security was at stake. I'd trust Bush's instinct and decisions any day over Obama's activist agenda.
Well, I wasn't aware that citizenship was an issue here, given that Obama had produced his birth certificate. I also think its very naive to trust those in power purely because they are American citizens (you might find that some of the most dangerous people that are incarcerated in the US are US citizens)
In terms of what was right, I'm confused that you, as a religious woman, would believe that the murder of innocent Iraqi citizens by UK and US forces could ever be right. Particularly when their deaths were a result of nato forces bombing because of WMDs that never existed. Both our countries, and indeed several others, have lost service men and women in pursuit of something that didn't even exist. Bush's poor instinct, cost the lives of many.
In terms of Libya, I agree. Another war that smacks of oil, however, I think you'll find the British (another reason why I hate my countries foreign policy) and the French, were the instigators in this war.
"I love the flag you posted. For some reason, it isn't appreciated as much as it used to be. And neither are patriotic songs..."
These guys appreciated it!
I don't hate the country... but I do hate it's sins. I am allowed to disagree with the decisions of our government... including both Bush's wild goose hunt for WMDs and Obama's killing of an American citizen.
I live in the USA and do not hate my country.........With that being said, our policies are starting to really frustrate me as an American.
In some ways I do understand our need as a powerful nation to get involved with developments happening around the world. At the same time this does not give us a license to stick our nose, where in some cases, it may not belong.
I am very proud of what our country stands for and the right to be free and do what we please. Many soldiers have died to preserve that freedom and that is what I am proud of and yet upsets me at the same time.
At what point do we bring our boys and girls home and call it quits to start working on problems here in the states? How many young and old soldiers need to die fighting a battle that has been going on for centuries in the middle east? Do we really think we can solve hundreds of years of problems with our guns and planes? Is there something else we are trying to achieve? If not lets get home, save several billion dollars per month in our terrible ecomomy, and let them sort it out. Nothing has changed.
Still the threat of terrorism, still government problems in the middle east. still soldiers dying and for what?
I am an American and proud of it. I still think we need to take care of our own and take a break from the wars. Do you really think the world will end and terrorists and governments will collapse if we stop? This may just be a good time to rally around what we are as a nation and quit worrying about the rest of the world. If we are really a world power as we claim to be, wont the world come to us making offerings that could improve our situation and theirs versus spending endless amounts of cash and dying soldiers which we just cannot afford anymore?
One thing is for sure, we need leaders who care about our country and all of the people in it. Not leaders who pander to wealthy corporation that paid for thier political careers.
I think there are a few countries that should take a break from these stupid wars, America is not the only one. Unfortunately though, most are the puppets of corporations and the elite. Few countries really take care of their own, we are the governed and the Governments have their own agenda.
Interesting discussion. Lots to think about re the topic and its related issues.
Enemies will always take as much as we will give them. There's an old saying that has proved true over and over again, give an inch, enemies will take a mile.
That said, I recently came across some youtube videos on something about America that had inspired a bevy of comments from others attacking America. It was interesting to see that many more people from other countries stepped up to bat for us by stating their love and support of America. Every country is a mixed bag of people, some with common sense, some not so much.
The bottom line is that we live in a fallen world and everyone has enemies. There is no perfect government, but with all of her faults, I do think that many people realize that America has reached out to help most nations in time of need.
Check out these to see some of the heart of America--both are about what it means to be America--be sure to watch them to the end:
Do I agree with everything in these videos? No, and I'm thankful for the freedom to be able to say so. The important thing is that these vids do give the world a glimpse of why we continue to reach out to other peoples--it's because we are Americans.
I finally watched both of those.
The Ollie North speech---now that's more like the patriotism we used to see and hear about! Things of honor and National pride and personal pride in doing the right thing, before our soldiers became victims of political correctness!
Also, the attached link to the difference between a Republic and a Democracy and the other political setups is a great link; I'd seen that before, and glad to see it again.
The other video about the American captives in Iran is very telling too. Yup. America will always have enemies no matter how harmless our actions are.
Brenda I happen to love this country, but that does not mean I have to back every bs move made by the government. If I had to support everything they did, I wouldn't have any reason to love this country.
Do you love the principles America was founded on? Or are you only willing to love us if you can change that foundation?
Will you love America when gay marriage is legal, Brenda?
If that happens, yes indeed I will still love America.
And will still try to restore its laws to their original intent.
Unlike those of you who fight supposedly for the human rights of gays, when in fact if you're wanting to help people with human rights, you should go to a Country where gays are killed for their desires and HELP THEM fight for their human rights. 'Cause in America, you already have the same human rights that I have and that every American has. You just prefer, I'm sure, to change America's policies under the guise of "human rights", and you've found that America's an easy target.
Brenda, help me understand Americas laws i'm unfamiliar with them. In the US, do gay men and women have the right to marry, as hetrosexual men an women do, in every state?
No they don't.
Matter of fact, some of the laws in some States (which the liberal proponents will call "antiquated" of course) prohibit even the known actions of sodomy etc. But because those laws weren't enforced nor replaced with a viable form of that law, some States and our Federal Government (under the ever-so-politically-active-Obama) have made the unnatural and unlawful jump from that to actual imposition of their agenda in our military. And over the will of the majority of the people; specifically over the will of the Constitution's intent.
So, being discontent about their actions being tolerated and unprosecuteable under the human rights laws, the liberal agenda decided to bully Americans into sanctioning perversion. Some States have fallen for it; some have not.
Nope. Struck down by the Supreme Court in 2003 (Lawrence v Texas).
The march of progress, can't fight it.
I'm still confused as you purport that gay men and women already have the same human rights in your country. And I quote
'Cause in America, you already have the same human rights that I have and that every American has.
Clearly this is not the case then? Your human rights as a hetrosexual women, I presume you are a hetrosexual woman, correct and forgive me if i'm wrong, allow you to marry in any state. Yet this is not the case for a gay man or women. Should it not be the case that you both enjoy human rights? Such as marriage, amongst other things?
She's going to say gay men have the same right to marry women (and lesbians to marry men) that heterosexuals have.
And, yes, she'll be missing the point. Deliberately.
Oh, I haven't missed the point at all.
The liberal point is to change the basic structure of American society. And you're succeeding. Congratulations to you and to the great Obama. But you do overlook the fact that it will never be right. And by the time you admit that, you will have led countless people astray, astray from God and from America's original integrity. And you can't cover it by claiming Jewish status, because true Jews believe in the Old Testament laws even if they don't believe in the New Testament revelations.
Just like MLK changed the basic structure of American society.
Oh dear God no, not equality. God REALLY hates equality.
I continue to pray for you Brenda.
Martin Luther King actually had a good cause to fight for. And he did. Even though he was a womanizer from what I've read! So, he got something done that was needful anyway.
Sorry, but the homosexual agenda isn't based on anything even close to the purpose that Martin Luther King had. Obama just has many Americans convinced that he's in the same category as King. And the agenda uses that just like he uses the people in that agenda. It's a game to him, and it's a game to the liberals. All for power, tyranny.
I understand you will never think it's right. But I suspect you probably think there are a lot of things that are wrong that most decent people don't have a problem with.
I'm sorry, most people don't hate gay people as much as you do. Younger generations even less. Most people like you don't understand that America has an explicit mechanism to reinterpret the law in accordance with changing viewpoints. The same goes for Judaism, actually (feel free to stick to your view of Judaism that's about 2,000 years old, though).
Actually, in some States (I dunno about all of them), one of the potential spouses must obtain the license to marry from their State of residence, specifically from their County. Then, I'm not sure if they can have the marriage ceremony performed in another State or not....
But there are rules of conduct even for heterosexuals who want to marry.
And it went without saying that only one man and one woman constituted marriage potential. But that liberal agenda, it sure is twisted and stubborn, all the way down to changing the foundation for anything and everything including the simplicity of morality and the Constitution.
They call it progress. God calls it rebellion and abomination. America's laws, both spoken and socially implied, called it rebellion and abomination, back when the foundation wasn't being chipped away at by the likes of Obama and his minions.
No, God doesn't call it rebellion and abomination, you do. You are not god. These are your values and your social norms. Obama is not chipping away at the foundations, the whole world is. America included. What you espouse is based on your interpretation of scriptures. Scriptures were interpreted by mere mortals. I'm not being critical of you as a person, but humanity evolves and part of that evolution is to realize that there is more than one sexuality, and this is not evil, it is love.
Why do you care Churchlady? Have you recently been promoted to "Defender of the Pentacostal Faith?"
Yes, you might continue to try to do that, but people with your attitude towards marriage equality are a dying breed, so, within a generation or two, no one will carry the torch for restoring marriage as a man-woman-only institution anymore.
Of course, we'll be dead by then.
You're right that in many other countries the situation is considerably worse. I do my part to help them, which, in some cases, involves naming and shaming American evangelists who encourage violence against gays in countries like Uganda:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world … ganda.html
Wow. That is a shocking bit of information your link provides livelonger. Sad to think that because of radical interpretation of homosexuality introduced by US Christian representatives, human beings may be strung-up or held for life simply because of who they love. I Love my country, but we Americans must be very careful how we present our case, no matter how left, right, or otherwise it may be. Thanks for sharing the link, it's a real eye-opener.
I thought that America was founded by those who questioned the status quo, who bucked authority, and who eventually thumbed their nose at the establishment. (Most were Unitarians btw just thought I'd throw that in)
I rather think that they would be pleased by a population that questions the government and changes the rules when the old ones don't work anymore.
You aren't reading the right history books. According to Brenda's, the founding fathers would have had 95% of today's Americans tarred and feathered. They also hated science, believed in equality for all white people and no one else....OK, I'll give her that one.
You are right Melissa, it is our duty as Americans to question our leadership! Without this approach we may well be reading by candlelight and traveling by buggy.
(Although a romantic horse drawn buggy can be inviting once in a while...)
I've read enough of your posts to know where you are headed with that one.
You can't hijack my freedom by rewriting history to sit your fancy. I love the principles that this nation was founded on. Not the lie many christians are attempting to pass off as the truth.
I remember after 911, the News showed people in at least a couple of different Countries applauding the terrorists' attack! I don't recall which Countries....I guess I thought it didn't matter. But maybe it DOES matter.
Do you think those who cheered over our torment are representative of the whole Nations' view of the U.S.? Or were those just individual groups who hate America?
RTalloni, I'll try to watch those videos, if my computer setup will let me. I've been having problems when I follow links here....
LOL, Live Longer will you marry me?
Come on think about it, it would be a completely legal 3/4 gay marriage. It would be sexless (like the fundies like) but (also like the fundies) we could both go outside the marriage for fulfillment.
And if we don't like it, we could ignore the Bible and divorce (again like the fundies) and still go to heaven!
For that sense of humor alone, the answer is an emphatic YES!
And you wouldn't even have to get a divorce from your husband if we adhered to Mormon rules.
You know I was thinking that! But... where would hubby fit into it? *closes eyes* don't answer that.
LMAO, yes, but you either have to wear cargo pants and a huge hoodie (and bind the bouncies) or you have to wear leather.
Leather sounds good to me Do you have a particular color in mind?
If Hollie gets to stand up with Melissa, I get to be your best person, right livelonger? Leather would be fine as well, leather tux though!
You've got it!
Will that leather tux be powder blue?
Powder blue works perfectly! It may be difficult to locate, but we can always take a trip to garment district! SHOPPING!
moved it to a new thread so as not to thread jack (and because brenda isn't invited)
And even though I didn't intend for this thread to go this way, the insistence of some hubbers in attacking conservative views here does for sure illustrate the hatred that so many liberals have for America!
I keep wondering why they don't just go to another Country that's just as liberal as they are. Oh yeah I tend to forget-----they want to shove their lifestyle down the throats of Americans, not other Nations' people, undermining us from within, to prove they can do it. Domestic tyranny. Instead of shaping laws according to our Constitution, they decided to try to twist the Constitution to fit their desires. And make our military defend their personal positions instead of focusing on National security.
Most of us want to change America for the better because we love our country, enjoy living here, and want it to be a good place for our children. Our approach is certainly no more tyrannical than yours.
Double negative. "No less" means "more".
So, for once I agree with you livelonger---Your approach is indeed more tyrannical than mine.
Edit---I see you caught your mistake. Good job.
I hope you'll consider another error---your increasing willingness to hijack conservative threads.
Hey Brenda, there are many others aside from Livelonger to hi-jack threads. So, don't think for a second that it's only him.
As for your conservative thread? Phooey. Conservatives are too anal to begin with and yes the pun was intended. It's either their way or the get out of the country, and that's pathetically absurd.
I probably said it wrong when I said "conservative thread".
This thread was meant for anyone to post their views and add evidence of who does or doesn't hate America; it wasn't meant specifically as a conservative viewpoint.
But typically, livelonger and a few others decided to try to distract.
I'm so used to that by now.
Distract? If you want a community where everyone will agree with you, then maybe you should go somewhere else. I for one will not nod in agreement at some of the insane things you say here, and apparently plenty of others won't, either.
But, of course, you know that, and probably secretly like it.
You assume too much about me, as usual.
You assumed that I was trying to distract when I simply was bored of listening to you. See how assumptions work?
The feeling is mutual. Your posts are boring also.
Except.....when you post like you did in response to a reply I made to livelonger. Are you two actually the same person? That would be interesting. But hey maybe you're just birds of a feather flocking together.......so don't mind me now ya hear?
The same person (a) one female and (b) one male, yet the same person?
Aww, nah, I'm probably wrong about that idea. It's just that they parrot each other's posts so much....
You don't think someone can fake being two genders on the internet? Its the internet.
Are you saying that I am a gay Jewish man from California? I'm not really insulted, but I think my hubby is going to be kinda upset. At least until the money starts rolling in from the news stories on the 4 children I've delivered.
LMAO, I can understand the confusion... all us BLGTs must look the same to you.
Most of what he said isn't assumed, it's actually perceived by your actions, which you fail to realize, but do justify.
As an American and also one who has lived extensively outside the US, I can say that there is a wide range of different ways that people perceive us. As for myself, the longer I lived outside of the states, the less I tended to associate with my fellow Americans when I got the chance. Far too many fit the bill of being the "Ugly American" and I got tired of trying to find the 1 in 10 that wasn't. Most of my expat friends these days are Aussies and Brits. The Brits call us "Yanks" and the Aussies call us "Seppos" (referring to septic tanks and what most of us are full of). Funny yes, and probably more true than I'd like to admit.
I also lived abroad for years and noted a wide range of attitudes. I don't think it's useful to generalize since attitudes can change a lot over time, and even more from person to person (in every country).
Many will rant away at America but will be nice to individual Americans, some oddly (and vaguely insultingly) saying, "Well, you're an exception."
Yes, I've often been noted as the "exception" by people abroad. I used to get insulted, but have learned to take it as a compliment. "Yes, I'm American, but don't hold it against me" became my standard response.
You felt the need to apologize for the rest of America, but wanted them to view you personally as different than the rest?
See, I still don't understand that.
Makes perfect sense to me Brenda. Being born and raised in America, I feel bad when I see my country and/or it's people behaving in a less than respectable manner. On that same note, I am happy that I'm not the one of the offenders and am glad that they see me as being different.
How far does that extend?
All the way to National security issues?
For instance, decisions made by our Government when they're honestly trying to protect this Country, whether its sovreignty or its values.
That's treading on a slippery slope to a very lengthy and broad conversation there Brenda. I'm not feeling up to writing a book this evening, but I would be more than happy to recommend a few. I'm not an anti-American by any means, but I am a realist and call it like see it.
Not necessary but thanks.
Unless maybe you're talking about factual books, not opinion pieces.
I don't read opinion books Brenda, but I do read a good deal of History. I always recommend "A People's History of the United States - 1492 to Present" by Howard Zinn. Not an easy read, but some interesting pieces of American History and policy foreign and domestic. Interesting stuff.
wait what? Oh I get it... cause all lesbians want to look like men and all gay men want to look like women.... Ha Ha... I get it, it's funny because its bigoted!
Why don't you go play married in the other thread? If you get bored, you could write on some blank labels your definitions of bigotry. Considering that you pull that word out at the drop of a hat toward anyone who doesn't think like you do, that should keep you occupied for a looooong time.
Ive read through everything on this. Everything got off topic and she acting like one. for real. May have been much but don't need to talk to ppl like that.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
That's rather incoherent. It's unclear whether you're simply repeating your insult toward me, or trying to apologize to me. For your information, I'm an "anyone", but since your insult was directed solely at me, I'd like your apology to be directed to me personally also.
Try again when you've regained your composure and gained some manners. Should I expect that anytime soon? If not, then please refrain from commenting to or about me, got it?
Is the hogwash attitude young Mr. "ErosRyder" spouted an example of America's newly-implemented liberal tolerance policy, or is it the result of improper raising?
Or, in the end, does it boil down to basic personal responsibility?
Quite a question to ponder. Could be a case study for human behavior all around.
Americans turning on each other.
What's causing it?
What I do know is that, not so long ago, the solution would've been a well-deserved slap to his jaw.
What's changed in America since then?
The people I see here who hate the USA are the thinly disguised racists (America has always been racist at a religious level) who hate their own president and show disrespect for the office and the votes of their own countrymen.
Trying to undermine the incumbent President on the basis of his birthplace, religion or any other lies that they can think of.
"racist at a religious level"?
Are you talking about the Klan, or people like Jeremiah Wright or who?
And are you lumping all America into either of those groups or similar?
I ask because I've never seen racism from religious people, and I've been around religious people all my life.
This is the funniest response of the year !!
The ones who used the Bible to justify owning people.
Tying them to a post and whipping them with straps.
Raping their women and teenaged girls...
are you talking about the Founding Fathers?
No, the Founding Christians.
although, you know--some of the FF's qualify! I never thought about that....
and I love Christians. REAL Christians.
REAL Christians wot own slaves and burn nonbelievers?
Iz that the same a REEL AMERIKANS WOT KILL INDIANS? lololol
We well deserve the hatred of many nations here - and we deserve that hatred because of the actions of the last two POTUS administrations.
I think the actions of the Bush and Obama admins prove that those two presidential administrations hate the United States Of America, and her citizens enough for anyone to see it.
The answer to that isn't a straightforward one. For example, there may be many around the world who love the USA in general, but who don't approve of, or hate the official policies of the US Govt. I watched some Iranian students being interviewed in a documentary a while back and they pretty much summed up their feelings towards the USA in as many words. They love all things American, except American foreign policy and how it is implemented in parts of the world.
America , is probably the easiest country in the world to be critical OF!....Our freedoms are envied , our economy is all powerful ...within the worlds economy! Our media is hyper -active , our government is open and fairly accountable. And we are the largest free market in the world ,for the benifit of all! Those who hate the US. have the most to gain from our philantropic vetures , both private and government based. In truth !Other governments don't hate us as much as they uncomfortably need and use us! As to other peoples. They suffer from the same dissillusioned bigotries that we do!
you are living a dream long gone when America was the envy of the world, when freedom existed, the economy was powerful and the media was doing a half way decent job. Today's reality is very different.
Most people do not hate America, they just don't see any reason to respect it
I think U.S.A is the most beautiful, Technical and fastest country in the world.i don't think that any nation or anybody hate U.S.A.if some one think that why some countries hate U.S.A den i think its their problem.i love U.S.A very mush:)
I love the USA, and forgive it for the shameless attack on my country in 1812.
I am a bit peeved though, that Kim Kardashian has not returned any of my 2034 letters.. but I can't blamed an entire country for that
How can an intelligent person hate a whole country? People they may have never met. They can hate the politics, laws, and manipulation (corruption) but that happens in smaller countries too. I tend to think they ridicule the USA more for their lax standards and immense freedoms to do whatever you please. Although driving with natives in So. America, there are no laws either.
Well I don't hate the U.S.A. and I'm proud to be an American. I think we live in an amazing country where anything is possible and where you can fly as high as your wings will take you. If you fall flat on your face, well that's nobody's fault but your own and that's how it should be. If other countries hate us, it's only because they are just jealous of the liberty and freedoms we enjoy and unfortunately all too often take for granted here. Boatloads of immigrants didn't come here by the thousands because this was such a horrible place. They came here for a chance at opportunities they wouldn't have had if they had stayed where they were. That's what this country is all about.
I think America needs to get out more, by which I mean that unless it's changed recently, only 12% of your citizens leave America to travel the world, this leads to such things as 40% of Americans polled thinking that Spain was in South America, and more importantly having a rather inward looking mindset.
It was said that America gets involved in wars to broaden their soldiers outlooks, and that may now be also a factor in how America interacts with the world, in future, as more and more of your people 'see' the world, albeit from inside a 'Hummer'
Exposure to the world at large would dispel many misconceptions that I see Americans holding.
The fact is that America is bankrupt and only 'powering on' because she keeps printing dollars and China does not have the ability or will to stop lending her money.... yet.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the US Dollar is no longer recognised as having a reserve currency status.
My American friends yelp about gas prices, which are a fraction of European prices, and are held artificially low in the same way that Napoleon decreed that bread, wine and chicken must be kept cheap enough for the average French peasant to afford.
They loved him for it.
Overall your foreign policy sucks, and no matter how much it's denied, America has become an Empirical Nation colonising large chunks of the world with the financial might; that their huge indebtedness has allowed, and the colonisation has created.
That looks set to collapse any time soon, and I guess, much like when we Brits lost our hold on the world, the developing world will get some small satisfaction if America needs to 'downsize' her aspirations and hunker down back home.
Many years ago, in the late 1970's, sitting with some American spooks in Jakarta, we discussed what the world would look like in the future.
One US spook answered without hesitation 'Chinese and English speaking' he meant American English speaking of course, but the prediction looks set to be coming true.
It's good that you look at how you are perceived in the world, you may have to experience what the rest of the world already does one day, and yes 'we' (the rest of the world) are envious at the supposed prosperity your nation relishes, especially as it has been maintained by debt for the last 40 years or so, since you came off the gold standard.
On a personal note, I'm still annoyed you declared independence from Britain.
There is a story where the American Embassy in London asked the Duke of Grosvenor (who owns the ground it sits upon) if they could buy the ground, as it is your countries policy to own your Embassy space.
The Duke replied that in principal he had no objection to selling, but that there was the small matter of Connecticut to be dealt with first.
America is indeed bankrupt, but don't say that to the ones who are keeping the dream of greatness close to their heart.
The fall of the American Empire is not a question of IF, it is simply a question of WHEN
I agree with Petra, although US is a great country seized from the native Indians and established as a super power is now coming close to collapse due to its arrogant double standards when it comes to right and wrong. Its illegal wars and greedy financial institutions have led to its current situation.
It has come to a point now where most Americans are waking up to the reality that the country which so many people in America and other parts of the world took to be a role model for freedom and democracy is no longer able to maintain that status.
Well said. As an American that did live abroad for three years I got a good look at the country from the outside in. In many ways I saw the falacies that are perpetrated by the US educational system. Going to school abroad I learned that the geography, customs and gross national products of other did little to prepare me for the culture shock that these people cared about their families, their jobs and the latest pop song just like I did. A very good experience for me to say the least.
I love it when somebody tells me that the US is the greatest country in the world. I then ask them to tell me of a few examples to prove their point and I am bombarded with all the sappy propaganda our politicians feed us everyday to keep our eyes closed to the reality.
Funny thing is that when talking to the people I went to school with abroad they always seem to be curious as to where I kept my machine gun as all Americans carry one like Al Capone.
Do you hate America?
I don't really know what America is any longer. Is it the Nation of Islam? Is it the Black Caucus in Congress? Is it the Chinatowns? Is it the Mexicans who've come to America in the last 30 years and now - thru La Raza - are demanding "their" land back from the Mexican/American war? America today seems to be nothing more than a Balkanized hodgepodge of peoples with very conflicting cultures. As for me, I hate the fear of the unknown. All these diverse peoples, and all of human history telling me what to expect - intransigents to assimilation.
Do other Nations hate America?
I think the hate is almost exclusively in the Middle East. And that - IMO - is directly linked to the intolerance of Islam.
The more you travel as an American, the more you understand how welcome you are in many parts of the world from Asia to Europe, from South America to Africa, but not to worry; Canada is still there and so is Australia - the world is getting smaller for the American turist
Somewhere in the middle this conversation got way off course. This is unfortunate because it would have been nice to go thru various posts to see more opinions.
Decent argument though, and one that could be brought about any country in the world....
Do you hate America? I believe most of us really do hate the United States of America, more today than in the past. North and South America are continents The United states is a concept that a few European concieved and through wars and revolution created a Nation of many kinds of people. Today that diversity that MADE the US exceptional and great ( THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ) are being asked to offer themselves as sacrifice. The people must choose side and hate and destroy all liberals,conservatives, and independents that don't agree with what they know is right. The haters of the US is the citizens, other Nations are confused by what is happening and solutions offered.
Yeah, I will say that I do kind of hate the right wing. And I definately feel hatred directed at me.
Hatred directed at Obama....outright Hate.
By American (maybe) people.
I think we have been infiltrated. People posing as citizens, working against the USA.
Not that it's anything new. But the level of hatred is out there in the stratosphere.
I agree. Politics and just plain getting along with other people is built on compromise, but that concept seems to have left the country. Everything is my way or the highway.
It isn't limited to one group or another, either. Everyone seems to want to be associated with a particular group, be it the left, right, independent, religious, secular - something. And every other group is 100% wrong in what they want for the country.
I think it's fine that some things are non-negotiable - everyone has strong feelings about something but it's gotten to the point that nothing is left to compromise on. It's all or nothing for nearly every issue, and our wondrous congress doesn't help by strictly following party platforms.
Compromise is a dirty word and what can you expect from the likes of Senators like Mitch O'Connell who has personally declared that it is his mission to defeat everything Obama until Obama leaves office.
This pissing match is nothing but a struggle to gain back the power the GOP lost with the last election. The regulars are struggling with the Tea Party within their ranks to gain the upper hand but it is a no go.
What is funny is that the Tea Party can't get out of its own way in that they will split the vote in 2012 and assure Obama another four years.
The America that once was is being stolen from the very freedoms that created it in the first place. For Americans : especialy those who dislike and disrespect it , get off your A## and do something about that! Or, Leave . Thats a tuff one to decide!....Perhaps you could go to the mideast, but don't take your wives and daughters. They will be systematicly set back 100 years in womans rights! Go to Spain or Ireland even Germany , where the economies are sliding quickly away from and out of total human control. Or perhaps South America , where you can live on 4 dollars a week but you'll never have anything in your life but economic misery ! Hey ! I know, how about Mexico a country that ties itself to American economy like a grouper fish to a whale. Here's the thing folks! America is in trouble ! It's economy is tanking! But ask yourself why almost every other economy in the world is relying on American ingenuity, our our research and developement . And perhaps the strongest economy in the world , the most open and sharing country in the world , and on the spreading of our technology to everyone from the pirating Chinese to the corruptness and control of the Isreali's! Yes! everybody loves to hate the big dumb friendly guy in the schoolyard, until the Crap hits the fan , and then he turns over his lunch money to you, beats up the bullies and walks you home after school to the safety of your waiting mommies.
I as an American ,I'm ready to vote to stop the subsidizing of corn and wheat growth in order to help feed the hungry in Somalia and Sudan , I'm ready to vote to let the Euro bite the dust instead of guaranteeing militarily the safety and security of most of free Europe from its usual self distructive behavior! And I'm all ready to tell my congressman and senators to dump Nafta , to stop the free flow of human contraband into our borders , all of them!
Junco ! When it comes to the way so many people within and without our borders diss - us . Yes! I'm all for protectionism. Cut the ties at least the suckers that go outside . Take care of Americans with American resources. We don't need to provide Japans military defense ! Or Europes subsidized crude oil imports ! We dont have to give our manufacturing base to the third world countries. Or nation build in countries that still live in the cultural and political stone ages. Whats wrong with that! Some people in America still love and support this country!
Sorry Folks , I have been warned about the forum rules. I forgot it isn't politically correct to defend our country!
Who warned you about what ? the only thing you are doing is writing a load of codswallop, many people here do that with impunity
You spewed the same Anti-Americanism in my thread. Do you critisize the Chinese govt as much? Your a mixed up dude.
I am not anti-american Bubba ! just because I point out that people around the world don't like you all so much these days, and point out the horrendous things your government is doing around the world in your name does not make me anti-america, it makes me socially responsible.
What has the Chinese government got to do with it ?
I think it's a good thing, although it would certainly look less biased if you were to level just as much criticism towards Britain. And China.
That Britain is involved in almost as many horrendous things is not because the US is blackmailing it or putting a gun to its head, or either that it is irredeemably evil, but rather for the same reason the US does those things: they have a financial interest in doing so.
Kind of like China investing in Darfuri oil fields after the original residents and presumed claimants were kicked out and killed.
The exclusive criticism of the US by a Briton living in China seems, well, a bit easy.
Well - as I have told you before many times it seems, and demonstrated constantly - I do criticise my own government for many of the same things I point out for the US. Where I live is nothing to do with it, I am a Brit. The only thing living abroad does for anyone is to make it easier to see what is going on and gain a broader perspective.
I agree. It's just a pattern I've seen among some non-Americans to spend an inordinate amount of time familiarizing themselves with and criticizing the US when their own countries (of either citizenship or residency) could probably use a bit more scrutiny.
I could see your point if we didn't have (at least) a lot of people who were painfully aware of our country's crimes and willing to speak out about them. But we do.
But the title of the thread is "Who hates the USA" and not "Who Hates their own Country"
Is criticism of the US hatred for it?
Maybe it was off-topic, but I wasn't talking about people who hate the US. I don't think recommend1 hates the US.
Going along with your "off topic" there does seem to be some confusion, people who criticise must hate!
A lot of people do think that (maybe the OP does). I don't. I think you have to be really insecure to think criticism translates to hatred.
But we did hear a lot of "love it or leave it!" bullcarp from the right here in the States...until they lost power and have been bashing America since.
Yeah that's very odd; but somehow typical during these last couple of years especially. I didn't see anything you said wrong.
I know what you mean...I stand up for America, and am called all kind of names!
But your side doesn't see it that way.....so I guess PC is in the eye of the beholder. As is defending your country.
i don't hate USA but i diagree with there policy might be there policy are better-half for there own goods but not for Islamic republic countries i guess . and yes other nations hate America alot
Such an interesting read this thread!
I have many friends in the USA, some I met via this site. A lot want to leave the USA but can't because they can't afford to, and it's just as hard to immigrate to countries outside the USA as it is to become a US citizen. That is probably news to most Americans.
There is a tainted view of US mainly because of their monetary involvement and gain at the expense of war-torn countries.
Your health care system sends sick people bankrupt making being healed a double edged sword!
Your debt is as high as a third world country and consumerism seems to be at the expense of values. But it's of course biting you very hard on the rear end.
Believe it or not, as a world traveler and observer, peoples lives do not evolve around the existence of the USA. We don't sit at cafes talking about the USA. It's often people who have never left the shores of their own country who have a jaded sense of patriotism.
I love my American friends, thankfully they also have socially responsible views of the world as a whole, not the segregated views of 'them and us.'
It is purely the openess of the western world that insures the presense of open critcism for all things political , cultural or otherwise.
As an American , I understand and accept it comepletely! The fact that we are a huge part of all things worldwide is due to the capitalistic and consumeristic nature of the atmoshere that we ALL breath , American , Chinese or Canadian ! I don't know that any more people hate America than hate anything. After all hate is such a great thing to begin with. All said ...America ,if it stands for anything at all ....it's the Right of Anyone .....anywhere to say those very words......I Hate.......! Try that in a few other places. By the way its the first right of our constituion. What is the first right say in......your country! Ever heard the term "go ahead I have big shoulders"? Lay it on me......thats America...
Ummmmmm, Apparently, you can't say "I hate Wall Street" without being thrown to the ground, or maced.
Lovemychris , perhaps you are right , To protest wall streets raping of the American public is also a right. It can be done easily ! But it must be done legally , organize the parade , hell! the Gays and the football fans do it no problem. But the masses of unruly and violent tirades of the uncontrolled 'professional protesters ' have no right to tear up any city! Wall street will pay for its crimes. And how you ask ? One .... by never having a public that believes it's hard earned retirement funds are safe again , By paying down our credit cards , mortgages and demanding political change. Two ..... take away the constitutional equivalency of corporations to private citizens in political donations. Three......TERM LIMITS for congress and senators....Four...... Vote , vote , vote incumbents out of office!
It's funny, I've been reading this topic all day, and a lot of people are saying: Yes, get wall street, but don't forget the real problem: the banking system itself! Fed, central banks, etc.
Fractional reserve, castles made of sand...whatever you want to call it. Make-Believe money is my fav.
There is no such thing as 4 trillion dollars. You cannot produce it. It's a figment of the mind. Used to control the world. In fact, the more I think about it, money is just so stupid!
And these made-up derivatives?? They say the amount owed could go to the moon and back!
and then we fight about a minimum wage....$7.25 cents it is....in 2011!!
It's so silly and dumb. In fact--I gotta get off this before I think too hard and start going into Bugs Bunny land.
It's so stupid it always makes me think of Fog-Horn Leg-Horn and Yosemite Sam.
"Ehhhhh,*crunch* *crunch* *crunch*.........what's up, Doc?"
Oh my god, Bugs....we are 4 trillion in debt!
Heres my take on where we are going . Down ! But what we as Americans have to do is work from the bottom up. Forget about TWO PARTIES and all the rhetoric that goes with BOTH . We as voters must combine our differences of theory and combine our mutual beliefs! Our congress and senate is OUT of control ! Totally . I trruely believe we must start a grass roots movement to vote all incumbants out ....With A MESSEGE ! You have failed! And if the new guy fails , he's out to . But we must work together. Or we all move to D.C and go on welfare!...he he
White House Shooter's Path to Extremism
The federal charges accuse Mr. Ortega of attempting to assassinate President Obama. They say acquaintances claim that Mr. Ortega was trying to kill Mr. Obama because he considered him “the Antichrist.”
That a religious extremist from a small town in Idaho would try to kill a black Democratic president might seem like cinematic stock. The state has long been stereotyped as violently antigovernment and racist. Remember the white supremacists of Hayden Lake? Remember Ruby Ridge? But many people here in Idaho Falls say the cliché is empty this time.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/us/os … ss.html?hp
The question is rhetorical. I don't hate it, but it is easy to see why other countries do.
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