Manning, an American soldier to be court-martialed. Your sentiment?

1. 64

   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   When a man delivers to the public information that belong to the public domain, why would they court-martial him? When documents are classified, don't they belong to the public domain since they belong to the country, therefore us (in comparison with a private entity)? When the people pay, finance the very existence of the army, the FBI, the Pentagon... don't their documents belong to us? Therefore shouldn't we be his only judges?

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      Jeff Berndtposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      A a US soldier, he's subject to US military justice, which is different from US civil and criminal justice.
      
      He's being court-martialed because he is accused of giving away state secrets.
      
      Now, there's a few important things to decide.
      
      * was the information he allegedly gave out really classified as secret?
      
      * did he really give it out?
      
      If the answer to both questions is yes, then he's guilty of whatever it is you're guilty of when you leak classified information to the press. Espionage? Treason? I don't know.
      
      But! Those aren't the only important questions. Some of the other questions include these:
      
      * If the information was classified, should it have been?
      
      * Was the information leaked evidence that either the US or certain of its representatives were engaging in illegal activity?
      
      * Should the guy be protected under the rules for whistleblowers?*
      
      There are probably other important questions that don't occur to me.
      
      
      *I'm going to go with "probably not," since if he was really just blowing a whistle, he ought to have sent the info to a US authority rather than an international NGO.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Good analysis. As St. Thomas Aquinas said. "Seldom affirm. Never deny. Always distinguish."

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sometimes a man has to do what's right by his own conscience above and beyond what is legal, he did what he say as right and released information that he believed the public needed to know. I have only respect for that.

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      claptonaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You think the American Government is concerned with citizens rights to info?
        They'd keep everything they do secret if they could get away with it.
        The guys in the military, subject to military rules. He screwed up by doing what was right.
        This is the future of America - those that do the "right thing" get dissed, attacked and threatened with lawsuits or jail.
        Go with the US Governments propaganda and you'll get benefits, jobs and and be left alone by the policing agencies.
        Pretty pathetic situation. The founders of the country are rolling in their graves wondering how such a great nation has been debased to what we are today.
        Cheers

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         WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It is called the Liberal Progressive Agenda.
         
         Implimented in the late 1800s early 1900s by the Liberal Progressive Socialist Democrat Party. And furthered by the infiltration of the progressives into the republican Party...
         
         And now it is about to be finished.
         
         Welcome to the New World Order.
         
         Brought to you by the Commintern, and American and Eurpean Leftists.

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            Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Oh tell us more, Mr. Knowledge! 

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               WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Google American National Socialism FDR, google the Progressive agenda.
               
               Think about it.
               
               Hillary Clinton is a proud Progressive, and there are many of them in the Republican party... why?
               
               Why is one party in the other parties?
               
               Control. Enforcement of an agenda.
               
               America is a one party system... and we need to break the grip of the Progressives, Liberals, Socialists and commies... in other words the Democrat Left... or we are all done. But first we need to remove the infection from our own party.
               
               The republican party has to be re-claimed and cleaned out. thus the battle within the party today.

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                  Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  So does this mean you didn't vote to have Palin as vice president in the last election? 
                  
                  Cleaning out your party and all that?

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                     WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     The last election is a perfect example why the Conservative and right-wing  Libertarians are taking our Party back from the Progressive RNC.
                     
                     And yes, I did vote for that ticket, because I had no other choice.
                     
                     Same as the Progressive RNC have slotted Romney in there for this election, that was the payoff for bowing out last time around.
                     
                     We see the game and are sick of it.

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                        Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Yep, I can really take you seriously when you admit you wanted that idiot from Alaska to be possibly in charge of nuclear weapons. 

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                           WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           That "idiot" would not have been in charge of anything.
                           
                           McCain would have.
                           
                           Do you not know what the VP does as compared to the Pres?
                           
                           And your ilk put a Marxist anti-American racist in office... talk about being taken serious.
                           
                           What a laugh.

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                              Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Did you miss the word "possibly" in my previous post?  And were you assured McCain wouldn't die in office?  Are you sure YOU know what the duty of the VP is?  Did you know Palin would be President if McCain died? 
                              
                              What a laugh, alright!

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                  marriedwithdebtposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You are right when you say America is a one party system. The Republican Party was the best thing ever invented by the liberal elite of the world. They are the perfect mechanism to carry out the one-world/globalization/ agenda.
                  
                  (Before you attack me and call me a lib'rul or a Right winger, please know I'm a Left Libertarian)

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                     WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     That would be the Progressive Party, my friend.
                     
                     The re-named Socialist Party of old. They siezed the Democrat party a long time ago, and the Republican part yin the early 1900s.
                     
                     Unless you would like to argue Abraham Lincoln was a globalist?

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                        marriedwithdebtposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Political labels change every 20 years, anyway. If you are trying to compare Abraham Lincoln to today's Republicans, you are off base.
                        
                        Most people, if you ask them a series of questions on what they support, are probably Socialists anyway. I fail to see your point.
                        
                        If our country is becoming Socialist, it's because the majority of people want it that way. Why are you trying to impose your will over the will of the majority?
                        
                        America is a Republic. If the people want a Socialist agenda, then they should have it.
                        
                        If you don't like that, then I guess you might support some type of fascism.

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   Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

   He's not a man. He is a US soldier.
   He violated the written and unspoken rules of conduct of his employer.
   Once he is stripped of his military status he becomes a man and the public can do what they want with him.
   Sounds like you want to canonize him.

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      Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He's not a man?

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3. 62

   logic,commonsenseposted 11 years ago

   Public execution.
   He committed treason.

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   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   Sounds like you want to lynch him!

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5. 64

   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   You don't really if he is a man or a soldier! But he can't be both can he?

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      maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Treason to whose eyes? The people? In what way doesn't it concern you?

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         maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         We are all concerned! He gave us info!

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   Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago

   Perhaps they should execute him and then organise a traditional military piss on the dead ceremony.
   
   Then organise a burial at sea as they did for Osama.  You don't want his grave to become a shrine.
   
   Unless, you have a grave, and then piss on that.
   
   I have to say, in the UK we treat our prisoners slightly differently.  We used to fly them to Libya for torturing but now our friend, sorry ex-friend, Gaddafi has gone that game has stopped.
   
   Still we can probably fly them out to Bagram air base.
   
   By the way, not that it matters, but who won the Afghan war? 
   
   Pissing away a trillion dollars a year, now that's a secret that should be shared.
   
   Oh nearly forgot.  Didn't Bradley Manning reveal a video or something of Americans killing unarmed civilians and whooping for joy?
   
   Yup.  His kind deserve all they get. 
   
   Final question.
   
   Is it better to piss on dead bodies, or the American flag?

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      maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You understood everything. England, USA, same policy!
      Where is point of a flag that represent nothing anymore? People may as well piss on it!

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      1. 82

         Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It doesn't take much effort to see what is going on.  How much core values should a country sacrifice in order to.... preserve it's core values?
         
         Bradley Manning shone a light into places that are normally kept hidden.  He embarassed some people and exposed criminal acts.
         
         There might once have been a time when decent men would have said " what the hell are we doing in America's name?"

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            maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Why don't people see it, it is a mystery to me?

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               Moderndayslaveposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               +1  Sunlight is the best disinfectant

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   logic,commonsenseposted 11 years ago

   Piss on Manning before and after you execute him.
   He pissed on his country. Deserves more punishment that he will ever get.
   It was not for noble purposes.  He did it to serve his own personal small minded ends.

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      Jeff Berndtposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, I really hope you never get jury duty, LC.

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      maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Tell me logic, which branch are you affiliated to the republicans or the army to have such a discourse?

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8. 64

   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   A US authority is biased!
   If they are state classified, the state is you, me, him. Those are our documents? The army, in that logic is the enemy.

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   Wesman Todd Shawposted 11 years ago

   My thoughts????  Bradley Manning for PRESIDENT!

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      Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      +1 my troublemaking friend.

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10. 56

    WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years ago

    He is a traitor... he should hang as all traitors should.

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       Wesman Todd Shawposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       You are the most pathetically immoral commenter I've seen this month.  Congrats, you win the prize.
       
       When Chinese Helicopters gun you down in the marketplace whilst you're unarmed and minding your own business, you're karma will be well deserved.

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          WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Death has always been the punishment for treason... too bad if you do not like that.

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             Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             There are lots of things that have "always been" that "aren't necessarily right."
             Moreover, are you sure that he's charged with treason? Or is that your interpretation?
             
             One of the first things that he revealed was a video tape of a US military helicopter killing innocent women and children plus a newsman in Iraq. Very embarrassing to the US. I'm not sure anything was done to the perpetrators.
             
             Here's a link to the video passed on to Wikileaks by Manning.
             
             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU … r_embedded
             
             Many of the same things were said about Ellsberg who released the Pentagon Papers and about the NY Times during the Vietnam War. Nothing was done to Ellsberg nor the NY Times if my memory is correct. Releasing the secret papers helped bring the war to an end.

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                WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                As far as I have heard he is to be tried for treason.
                
                Of course I am sure all Julius and Ethel Rosenburg-ites will be screaming about it.
                
                And death for treason is an appropriate penalty.
                
                If you will betray your own... then you are worthless.
                
                I am sure you both would have let them off scott free also though.

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                   Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   You seem to be sure of a lot of things. Must be nice to be without doubt.

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                      WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      I know you would have fought to free them, ralph.
                      
                      Or am I wrong?
                      
                      You would most likely argue right now that they were set up... wouldn't you?

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       Jeff Berndtposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Wow, another person who i hope will never sit on a jury.

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          Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Me either, Jeff.

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       maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       People who don't give information to the people are traitors to the nation!

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          WhoBeYouBeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I am sorry for you if you cannot understand that there are times and things that a govt should keep secret.
          
          National Security is one very grave and excellent reason to do so.
          
          We are at war... it doesn't matter what you think of the war... you do not get to betray your nation, of which you wear the uniform to serve... and not be held accountable for it.

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11. 81

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    Um, death has been one of the penalties for some kinds of treason.  While I agree what he did was illegal and against his terms of employment, there were redeeming factors.

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    mypleasurefantasyposted 11 years ago

    Short and sweet...
    
    Manning did commit treason by posting government secrets illegally. Therefore creating vunerabilities within our government.
    
    Should he die...eh not for me to say
    Should he be punished to the maximum extent of the law...oh boy yes
    
    Our adversaries are constantly trying to find ways to weaken the united states and kill soldiers over seas. Whether I agree with the war is not applicable, but leaking information putting hundreds if not thousands at risk..really?
    
    Apparently he has no regard for human life, let alone the consequences of the classified information he posted on an open source system.

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    Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

    So why was this info considered worth keeping under wraps?  What secrets were told which made releasing them such a big risk to national security?

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       Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Good question. National security or national embarrassment?

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       mypleasurefantasyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Its super secret squirrel classified

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          mypleasurefantasyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          But he released military cables which are classified from secret to top secret, which gives the enemy we are fighting our military strike pattern, how we communicate, the regime involved and so forth. That's a pretty big deal when your fighting a never ending enemy.
          
          He released information of strikes done, which again...read above....tells the enemy more than you can prepare for.
          
          How did he do any good?

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             Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             So the enemy didn't know where and when they had already been hit until after this release?  How did they overlook these strikes or not see a pattern already?

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    Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago

    I suspect that the film of the pissing servicemen will do far more harm to America than Bradley Manning achieved.
    
    Some Americans think that by continuing to perpetuate atrocity on innocent civilians they are making their world a better, safer place.
    
    IF Bradley Manning is guilty wouldn't it be marvellous to get some real war criminals in the dock?
    
    George Bush and Tony Blair started an illegal war on a lie.
    
    Now THAT's what you call criminal.  Bradley Manning is just a little guy, nothing in the big scheme of things.
    
    The War on Terror is a gigantic con trick that has cost America trillions of dollars.  Was Iraq a victory and what did it achieve?  What are you doing in Afghanistan?
    
    The real criminals are standing before you on TV every night, explaining how you need to lose jobs, pay more tax, suffer in a hundred ways - while the military machine continues endless pointless wars.
    
    And you are bothered about Bradley Manning?  A guy, who for a brief moment, allowed the truth to be seen.
    
    But I thought all this war crap was for the truth and democracy and openness and fairness?
    
    All lies.  All criminals.
    
    Dismiss my view all you like.  Dismiss the worldwide view of what America has become, and what it is doing.  Decide that you don't need friends across the world.
    
    And die fighting for a country that is taking your freedoms away.
    
    Sorry.  Went a bit ranty.  Still.  It's better than killing children with drones.

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       mypleasurefantasyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       True. Very valid point--

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    awareposted 11 years ago

    hung  how bout that?

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16. 94

    Gordon Hamiltonposted 11 years ago

    I came upon this thread by accident but read it with interest, after my curiosity piqued me to Google "Bradley Manning" and find out who he is, as I had never previously heard of him.
    
    There's a lot of sense spoken in this thread and a lot of weird "stuff", all of which prompted me to throw caution to the wind and cast my tuppence worth in to the equation.
    
    Most of us have political views of one shade/type or another. When a man takes an oath to serve his country in a military capacity, he should be more than aware of the serious nature of the pledge he is making. Politics and political beliefs are - if not necessarily suspended - at least laid to the side in the name of military discipline, patriotism and some form of order among the chaos. Imagine what it would be like were a man afforded the freedom to obey military orders only where they were in accordance with his own political beliefs and perceptions of decency and righteousness? I'm not sure what language we'd be speaking had such exceptions been in place during yesteryears, or what systems of Government any of us around the world would be experiencing - I am grateful not to know.
    
    If this individual is found to be guilty as charged by a formal miltary court marshal, I hope he is punished to the fullest extent of the law and that others take note of the example...

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       Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       If what he has released had actually put soldiers at risk or if he had given out secret identities or whatever then I too would see him punished however he did no such thing, what he released was old footage and there are 3 reasons that footage HAD to be released #1 the families of the victims of that massacre have the right to know how their children and husbands and brothers died, #2 We pay the wages of the American army with our tax dollar we arm them and they answer to us through our elected chief of staff, as such we the people have every right to know what mistakes and or atrocities they are committing. #3 Most importantly, the release of this video makes it more likely the perpetrators of that intentional massacre of innocents will be brought to justice, capital punishment has been thrown around a lot here but it seems obvious to me that if you are going to execute someone it should be the mass murderers in the helicopter not the guy who exposed them.

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          gregasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I see something in Josak's comment. The ones that should be on trial here are the ones that did the killing of the innocents, not Manning. I haven't read one comment that pointented to those individuals being at faule. Actually, Manning should get a medal for this. He did not realease any security information, so it can't be treason. My opinion. Greg

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    mypleasurefantasyposted 11 years ago

    There are no innocence in war...harsh but it's a reality. Every war to date many people have died, some just collateral damage. There is nothing that can be done to stop that. That is the reality we live in.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       True, that's why most wars are mistakes. The last justifiable war in my opinion, in which the U.S. was a participant was World War II when Nazi Germany and Japan were a threat to the civilized world.

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       Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       That's right, we should not care what happens when a war is going on.  We need to be allowed to kill and commit atrocities at will.  After all, that's how we got this country to begin with.  Why change what works!  Everyone should just keep quiet about this sort of thing.  Thank you for being a patriot!

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18. 77

    Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

    Bradley Manning made a martyr of himself.  He knew the repercussions and was willing to deal with them.
    
    He committed treason, he knew it, he did it, and he will pay for it.
    
    There really is no question about it, he is guilty. at least I have not heard him claim innocence.  He deserves a fair trial/tribunal and the punishment that is allotted to him if found guilty.

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       Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yep, our ancestors did the same thing when they declared our independence from Britain.  They were traitors and committed treasonous acts against them.  How did that turn out?

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          Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Have you heard of the group Anonymous?  They are tied to wikileaks and Asange but much more then that as well.
          
          I fully support Anonymous!  The PEOPLE are the power. Information should be open to scrutiny unless it puts another individual/s life in danger.  WE ARE LEGION!

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             Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Okay!  Just beware of those with RE-LEGION as they may take offense to your plan of openness. 

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                Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Possibly that offense may trigger an eagerness to question!  It does with me anyway, I enjoy learning, I enjoy researching ideas and concepts.  Disagreement usually results in an inquiry in to what I think is truth.  Besides there is no guarantees in life which provides an individual the Right to not be offended.  Plus, I do not do the religious debate thing often, my comments have nothing to do with the subject. 
                
                Question everything!

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                   Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   Fine with me, but if you do wish openness you will have no choice but to deal with the religious.  Good luck!

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                      Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Yep, and I would fight for their Right to disagree with me. I do not have any power to restrain another Individual from expressing themselves.
                      
                      Please grant me the serenity
                      to accept the things I cannot change;
                      courage to change the things I can;
                      and wisdom to know the difference.
                      
                      

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                         Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         Sorry, I cannot grant you any of these things.  You must learn how to achieve all of this yourself without permission from anyone or anything.  Merely asking for permission is a step backwards as you insinuate something or someone else has to allow you to be yourself.

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                            Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            LOL, the only time I ever ask permission for anything is if I am on anothers property!  EVER!

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19. 77

    Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

    We do not forgive!  We do not forget!
    
    
    http://youtu.be/XHuA30FcCIE

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