Many news outlets, like CNN, have posted that Leon Panetta is now suggesting Isreal will attack Iran in the spring. Is this a good idea? Should America get involved?
I heard about that too. Unfortunately if Israel goes so will the United States.
America is engineering the whole thing to its own agenda. The censorship of the internet, the blanking out of real information in the media and the prison camps in every state, among many other smaller and often more subversive actions - the evidence is clear. Your government is taking you guys to war before economics drops you to number 3 in the world after China and Europe - and as the only way you can afford it is with nuclear weapons I think you just might soon be going to witness the worst atrocity in human history.
It appears that America will get involved, with or without popular support. If this piece is to be believed then if Iran retaliates against a strike from Israel, America will strike. No, I don't think the US should get involved, if they do the Uk will invariably follow.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-warns-ir … ttack.html
Panetta is not exacerbating it. Israel wants war with Iran and the U.S. will do everything in its power to prevent that beginning with sanctions against Iran according to today's security and intelligence panel hearing.
Right now, Iran does not have nuclear capability. Sanctions may help keep it that way. I don't think we should get involved either but if Israel starts a war, let them fight it themselves.
Panetta is making a grand public statement to put Israel off plans to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. If anyone waits any longer the consequences could be dire. Iran is run by people who believe that this is the year for the Twelfth Imam will return and to facilitate that return the world must be drenched in blood. Frightening notion. Some will dismiss this as mere fundamentalist insanity - but who can afford to dismiss a nuclear power run by fundamentalists who have demonstrated their bloody methods for years.
UCW that statement is sensationalist. It is scare mongering.
- but who can afford to dismiss a nuclear power run by fundamentalists who have demonstrated their bloody methods for years.
When was the last time they attacked America, or Britain for that matter?
So did Murdoch...of his 175 publications, in 2003: all of them supported Bush policies to invade Iraq!
Heck...Bush was a hero on Fox. NOW they hate war. sheeesh, go figure
Obama was against the war when he was campaigning. He increased the number of troops in Afghanistan. Now he wants to send troops anywhere at a drop of a hat.
Libya, Syria if he could, and now he wants Isreal to take the heat, but will send our forces in as soon as he can.
In the dictionary under hypocrite, they have a picture of Obama.
He was against Iraq...he was always for Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Your side are the hypocrits for suddenly hating war.
I believe if you check history, you will see how ill informed you are.
Anyway, Republicans are not 'my' side.
And sheltered Obama continuing "Bush's folly" all the way up to the withdrawal of troops according to the "Bush's folly" status of forces agreement with the Iraqi government. Obama merely executed the plan he did not create it and it was "Bush's folly." If anything it should be the "Bush/Obama folly."
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/inte … index.html
Whether or not Israel and Iran engage in a war will be their call. I really do not see the USA getting into it unless Israel is attacked. Israel is going to make their own call and I cannot say that I blame them. Certainly there will be pressure brought to bear by our State Dept to hold back maybe even with a hint of reduced financial assistance in the future as a lever. In the end, i doubt that will deter Israel if they truly perceive a threat to their security and well-being. This is a country that has shown time and again over the years that they mean business. Whatever call they make, I am sure it will be based our their ability to carry it out on their own. WB
No, America should not get involved. Why does America always have to try and solve the world's problems? This is an A & B situation, meaning, America should C its way out of it!
Where is the diplomacy, where is the face-to-face contacts with Iran? Why are there not high level conferences to discuss this and resolve it with Iran? Don't tell me that the Iranians can't be brought to the table. What the hell is the UN for anyway?
Why do we never hear the Iranian point of view. Where are the TV interviews, where are the newspaper columns.
Welcome to WMD2. It makes me angry
I agree...with our Presidential election, and the crisis in Europe, along with the uprisings in Syria, Egypt and Yemen, if Israel begins military campaigns against Iran, we will have no choice but to get involved. With America helping Israel, there will be no doubt about the chances of Mr. Obama getting reelected. It's a no brainer...he's gonna have to be reelected.
My gut feeling is this for the moment. The U.S. will pressure Israel to wait until after our elections here in America. Once a President is established in the White House, then talks of war will increase, the chances of Iran being attacked will be affirmed. Iran has a year to either get rid of it's Nuclear Program, or go to War.
I think the talk of Israel planning a spring attack is a fear tactic, designed to get Iran back to negotiations.
no i doubt it, its more of a threat to use military force but it is so much more effective to use diplomatic sanctions. if we can get all the country around the world to agree with the sanctions, Iran will surrender without a single bullet fire. You can't fight a war if your people are starving. Sometimes its better to just stick with the diplomatic approach to the end.
People here don't care about any involvement in another war. The Americans are conditioned to go to war! One more or one less, who cares! Where are we as a People? We don't react! I am fed up to witness people following whatever may happen. We became sheep only for personal greed! One day, it will be our turn! Our own government will aim at us! But it will be too late because we already lost our coherence as a collective group!
In a way, I might agree with you but in another way, I think we're all fed up with it. Soldiers need to stop volunteering to fight. Without an army, well, who knows.
If Israel attacks Iran, then America will have to get involved, as they provide financial and military support. With America involved, Britain will surely get involved; as for the other NATO powers, I'm not so sure.
At least Israel knows how to deal with those sand monkeys with bad intentions. Uh, yeah, like Iran + Nuclear program equals a good thing.
I just hope that, if it does happen, we don't come over with moist tissues and lots of handouts to help rebuild the area, like we often seem to do everywhere else. We need more money spent towards our own declining country, as opposed to trying to act like the "global police." As the saying goes, "only in America..." Blah!
Have you listened to yourself? Like America + nuclear weapons is a good thing. Like the UK and Israel + nuclear weapons is a good thing? You are a poor student of history. USA, UK and America are the sand monkeys. Sooner you awaken from your slumber, the better for all. Blah.
Great posts everyone, thanks for responding. Right now, Israel has to wait, attacking Iran is not an option. It would be foolish, and suicidal, plunging the entire world into chaos. Once Obama is either reelected or replaced, then Iran will be pressured further to get back to negotiations. Iran really is hurting from the sanctions, they have a young, extremely educated country who wants to be more moderate, more western, more tolerable. War with Israel is not what they want. Right now, it looks like Israel is trying to bring the Iranians back to talks with threatening to strike in the Spring. It may work, because Iran is talking about possible solutions to it's nuclear program. Yes, they are performing military exercises, but this is all about posturing.
I'll say it again. Israel cannot go to war without America. They will wait another year, if necessary, to make sure they have a partner or two in the fight.
Thanks again for posting everybody...have a great weekend.
I have an idea....how about EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear programs?
NYC has broken out the Para military police to guard the Israeli Embassy in NYC. A clear sign of who actually runs things. News radio has stated that there were threats against schools ,synagogues and American citizens. What a load of crap. They cited an "Internal Document" that NBC got it's hands on, OK, in regard to the eminent threats. I'm sure the cia handed it right to them. This is all to paint the sheeple picture that Iran is threatening and should be attacked. Is this the reason for the sudden pullout from Afghanistan next year? More available troops. Get ready for the next "Incident" to rally the Obedient flag wavers. This makes me sick.
If this is true, then every single member of the US Congress who voted to unilaterally support Israel no matter what their position, must send their own children off to support this madness.
And if it IS for global power and dominance, not Israel, then tell us...either stop hiding behind them, or come right out and say you work for them, not the United States!
Trading Threats With Iran NY Times
Published: February 3, 2012
The posturing and saber rattling from both Iran and Israel are getting frightening.
Iran threatened to close the Strait of Hormuz after the European Union and the United States tightened sanctions. On Friday, Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said his country will assist any nation or group that “confronts” Israel, describing it as a “cancer.” He vowed to retaliate — especially against the United States — for tough new oil sanctions and Western military threats.
On Thursday, Israel’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, told a security forum that time is running out for halting Iran’s nuclear advance. “Whoever says ‘later’ may find that later is too late,” he said. Moshe Yaalon, a deputy prime minister, warned that Iran was developing a missile with a range of about 6,000 miles that could hit the United States.
There should be no illusions. Iran’s nuclear ambitions are real and dangerous. But there is no proof that it has made the decision to move from producing fuel to building a bomb. American officials say that reports of a missile with a 6,000-mile range are premature and wildly exaggerated.
The costs of an Israeli military strike — with or without American support — would be huge. It would likely only set Iran’s nuclear program back for a few years. It would unite Iranians around their government at a time when it is fast losing popular support. It would also shatter the international coalition for sanctions and direct more anger against Israel and the United States.
President Obama has spent three years rallying the toughest sanctions ever on Iran — including a European Union oil embargo. Tehran is increasingly isolated; its economy is reeling. The administration was right to warn Iran against any attempt to close the Strait of Hormuz. We hope it is also looking to privately persuade Iran of the need for a negotiated solution.
American officials say they have counseled Israel on the need for patience and warned that a military attack could backfire. They need to keep pressing on both fronts.
Washington still believes there is “time and space” for sanctions to work. But there is a frightening scenario going around Washington and several European capitals that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel may attack Iran before the summer — believing that President Obama will not try to stop him in the middle of a re-election campaign.
Israel must defend itself. This country’s alliance with Israel is crucial. We hope for everyone’s sake that Israel’s leaders weigh all of the consequences before they act. A military attack would almost certainly make things worse. Tough sanctions and a united diplomatic front are the best chance for crippling Iran’s nuclear program.
Most of us realize that Iran doesn't have good intentions, with or without the nuclear program of theirs, even though the PC (political correctness) can only allow so many true, televised opinions of such... Personally, just my opinion, I hope Israel defends their selves and deals with those sand monkeys the way that they know best! If they keep talking it up, they should get blasted because if they don't, Iran will just wait and strike at a later date. Iran hates Israel, right? Or have I been misinformed by the masses? Oh, Iran is going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya? Whatever! Israel will most likely grab their "balls" first and commence towards taking care of business. I'm all for it, but I do not know when they will strike, as if they are smart, none of us will...
They're not sand monkeys...they're people, human beings. First off, most of the Iranian population wants peace. Only the powers in charge, Ahmandiminjab(misspelling) and the religious elite, want war with Israel. They're hoping Israel strikes because it gives them a reason to "obliterate" the Israeli people.
This is about oil, it's about power, money and hate. The middle east right now is one more incident away from exploding in a unified rage that will indeed frighten the world. Right now, the youth are putting pressure on the elite powers to force change and equality for all. No one at this point is thinking about Israel.
If Israel plays this wrong, it could spell doom for her and her people. I love the Israeli's, I think they've been through a lot, and you're right, they have to defend its borders, but to dismiss all Iranians as 'sand monkeys' is offensive, and wrong. Only Governments want war, not the actual citizens who live in those countries.
Is it the 'sand' or the 'monkeys' that offend you? Those Iranians have been talking about "fulfilling prophesy" and "blowing Israel off the map" for quite some time now. Get real... The majority of those sand monkeys know nothing but war, and not peace. Oh, so are you telling me the middle east is full of love and tolerance? LOL!
Israel sure isn't. They have a history of hating Palestinians...so much so that they deny they have the right to exist.
Palestinians...who are they? Made up people.
Not true re blowing Israel off the map. Do your homework, unless of course you are fluent in the Persian tongue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ah … and_Israel
That would be a big mistake, in my opinion. It would also be a big mistake for Iran to attack Israel. I think they know that.
For G#d sake are we not War weary by now? Iran's bigger again than Iraq and has a larger population. It would b unthinkable to even try it !
I'm wondering what the Israelis went through? Poor Israelis bombing the Palestinians, poor Israelis setting embargoes on every product penetrating Palestine, poor Israelis cutting the water providing system... Did you go to Israel to pity them?
Its a frightening thought that Israel and Iran may go to war and drag the US into it. Just as our economy is recovering,this will be detrimental.
...and of course the prospects of Iran setting off a nuclear device is unnerving as well.
About as much as right here an now. Iran does not have a nuclear weapon nor is there any proof they are trying to make one.
That is contrary to multiple reports including from the IAEA.
Guess that settles that. We can go back to hiding our heads in the sand.
And with Mossad murdering their scientists, it's not likely they will.
Careful, LMC, the Mossad might be listening.
More likely their donor/supporters, LH.
Hello, Wizard, since you've spent some time in the State Dept., I'll ask you the same question I asked Wayne.
With the present "Arab Spring" taking place, do you think the other countries of the Middle East will get involved or just sit back and quietly be glad Israel took care of the problem?
Side Note: I was just joking with LMC.
LH-I worked for them as a contractor and not in the department as a foreign service officer—though I have many friends and colleagues who are and were.
Personally, I think the Arab Spring is turning into an onerous struggle for young democracies to survive. and isn't much of a factor in terms of Iran, (or Syria) except in one very scary sense—it's provoking fear and desperate measures in dictators to hold on to power. Another war is the last thing this planet needs. It's not a question of putting our heads in the sand, but rather not provoking other countries to overreact.
I think fear and desperation provoked the US to overreact after 9/11 and it will do the same in any country that is attacked. As Shakespeare noted, once the dogs of war are unleashed, we are all in for it. I hope we've learned our lesson, but I wonder when I hear some of the belligerent campaign rhetoric.
And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
Julius Caesar Act 3, scene 1, 270–275
I agree, Wizard, the last thing we need is to be pulled into another war, especially with a psychopath like Ahmadinejad.
I didn't agree with Iraq or Libya either.
Afghanistan probably could have been done with air strikes and SpecOps. Of course, it's easy for me to say, sitting on my ass in Tennessee.
There are times when I think we should just walk away and let them kill each other like 12th century barbarians.
Glad we agree, LH.
Sadly, lot of fortunes are made on wars and arms sales. Eisenhower warned us and was ignored by posterity.
I agree, Wizard, the last thing we need is to be pulled into another war, especially with a psychopath like Ahmadinejad.
LH, what about the psychopath that is Netanyahu. Why do you not worry about him? He is the one that is beating his chest like a silver back and shouting war, not AMDJ. He is the one that is allowing the ultra-zionists to spit on and shout "whore" to young Israeli girls who are not orthodox. He is the one that reigns over an apartheid regime. Why are you not worried about that psychopath? He also has nuclear capabilities, which under the nuclear agreement he is not allowed. Iran on the other hand is. Does this not make you question?
Yes, they pay people to surf the net and spout pro-Israel sentiments, and demonize anyone who thinks otherwise. Hasbarat network. Very well familiar with them.
And I would imagine other groups such as the DNC, Moveon.org, the RNC, and the White House probably do the same. This isn't just a pro-Israel phenomenon.
Maybe...but this is AMERICA! What business do they have fanning their country here?
Just like there are Israelis in this country, there are people from all countries and groups. The last time I checked....lets see..... yep, we still have freedom of speech and........ yep, freedom of the internet.
Where money for a cause or country can be had, there will be organizations like this for them all.
True, Iraq had their own issues, like some good ol' Middle East rapes & murder upon innocent civilians along with other unfriendly acts of mankind. What kind of fool claims that those idiots in Iran have peaceful intentions? What, are you from the dirka, dirka, jihad of the clan that speaks: "Allah akbar!"
I know, but I was trying to be sarcastic towards the poor chap... But, the hubber "knolyourself" seems to think it is true... Ha!
Incorrect, multiple intelligence reports said Iraq was pursuing the fuel to restart its nuke programs. Those reports were right. There were tons of refined uranium discovered in Iraq.
But not one nuclear warhead! Forgive me, I'm no nuclear physicist, perhaps you are? But those countries who, within the framework of international law, are "permitted" to generate nuclear power may well have left traces of refined uranium, would they not? I'm not qualified to say whether the reports were right or wrong, I am however, qualified to challenge them. How are you you qualified to state that they were "right"?
That's not true. Still flogging that dead horse about danger from Iraq WMD? If you can document it, please do.
I can still hear Bush's breathless lie about Iraq buying "YELLOW CAKE from AFRICA!"
I have a bad feeling abt this. If it does happen its going to be ugly
Iran has invaded no one in two-hundred years. American has it is reported five wars going on right now plus Iran surrounded with American bases and moving fleets of killer ships. Where do you live on the moon?
Haven't we had enough of hasty paranoid fools starting unnecessary wars?
Seems we've already been messing with them. Cyberattacks, other glitches in their military systems. I've heard they brought down a stealth drone which the Pentagon claims they are incapable of reverse engineering. I feel like we're watching a poker game where everybody is bluffing...except the guy counting cards!
This is the Israeli Gvt paying people to do this....this is nothing more than propaganda in my view.
It is just another part of the Zionist conspiracy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid … story.html
What would be your final solution?
My final solution would be to insist that Israel adhere to the same set of standards that other Middle Eastern countries have to. First off, the weapons inspectors should go into Israel and report on their nuclear ambitions. If Israel do not conform, then they should face sanctions just as Iran has done. The Amdj is a nutter and a psychopath will not cut it any more. History shows us that Israel, the Uk and the US are more likely to attack and obliterate other countries than Iran is.
So are you saying mhope324 is a Israeli-paid propagandist? In that case, some would say you're being paid by the DNC, moveon.org, or the Obama Administration.
Cage them all like prisoners, steal their homes and throw their children into brutal prisons....oh wait......this is already being done BY ISRAEL! To the Palestinians, in case you're out of touch with the news.
I'm an American citizen speaking about my country...do you not see the difference?
Shall people be paid by Iran to surf the net and demonize Americans?
You like that idea?
I see the difference perfectly, LMC. Others may not when you seem to be accusing mhope324 of being an pro-Israeli propagandist.
No, I don't like that idea, LMC, but we do have free speech in this country. To maintain that right, we must take the good with what we each see as bad.
I know you already know this and, no, I'm not being condescending. Just making a point.
WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT mhope324?? I don't even know what that is!
Free speech for Americans in America.
Not free speech for propagandists from other countries. That would be my point.
mhope324 is the person who started this forum, LMC.
"Not free speech for propagandists from other countries. That would be my point."
Is Soros an American? As of 1961, yes, but he was born in Budapest, Hungary. He admits he was a Nazi collaborator.
Should we shut him up and forbid him from using his money to effect American politics and society since he was a Nazi collaborator?
Don't get me wrong, LMC. I would love to see Soros run out of the country but where does it stop? I don't like it anymore than you but where does it stop?
Do you want internet regulations placed on the internet? Who should do the regulating? Please don't say our government as they can't collective come up with a coherent thought.
I want to stop seeing Americans agree that demonizing fellow Americans on behalf of a foreign nation is A-OK.
ps: the pope was a collaborator too...a lot of them had to be, or die.
And Soros helped Jews to escape...guess that part doesn't count, cause you know, it's propaganda.
Glenn Beck would be proud.
And you sometimes appear to be demonizing other Americans who don't tow the line for Obama.
My points are where do we stop and who should do the regulating?
Doesn't really matter who does it, LMC. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.
I am an American citizen.
Hasbarats are paid propagandizers for another country.
Be honest about it at least.
First off, I want to say I'm pro Human, I'm not on any one group's side. I wanted to start a conversation. I was being curious, that's all. I love all people, regardless of their background. I understand the situation going on with Israel in regards to the Palestinians. But that isn't the conversation I wanted. I wanted to know if people really believe the news reports on Iran and Israel.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone by my recent posts. I didn't mean to, I wasn't trying to be malicious. I was trying to play the fence and stay neutral, trying to get my two cents in. Maybe I was in over my head a little, a bit childish perhaps. I don't want any one group pushed into a prejudicial corner. The Iranians don't deserve that, but neither do the Israelis, or the Palestinians, or the Britons, or the Irish, or the Americans.
Perhaps this is all a smoke screen for more talks with Iran. I think so, I'd like to think Obama and Secretary of State Clinton are smarter and wiser than we are and are pushing for sanctions, not war. Peace talks and peaceful solutions should be the focus. I'm praying I'm correct on this, and I hope the Iranian people will speak up and force their leaders to drop the Nuclear option and open up talks with Israel. I also hope the Israelis can sit down with the Palestinians and work out a peace accord. I'm just hoping for peace in general, and hopefully a rational solution to all the BS that's been spouted.
Again, thanks to everyone for chiming in on the subject.
Iran knows it has a buffer and pushes well forward into the buffer area to make itself look bigger. Fortunitly there are enough intelligent folks around in the upper echelons that fully understand facts, and we do not want to be in a conflict with Iran, and thus we rattle spears and throw each other the finger, so to speak, but... it can go out of control if we are not reasonable and factual in our findings and answers.
Israel is not an unpredictable wild card here either, if you really look into the on-line CIA stuff and really research the facts, they would have to be provoked first and a delibret declaration of War against them from Iran, Iran will not go there.
Iran knows all of this well. The News media hypes it up and forgets the real stories via over editing, and thus we all get worked up.
But...again I am greatfull for greater minds with good information that so far have held it to saber ratteling only. Iran knows this well, I can say reasonably after many years in the field with State, they- Iran, wants dominant position in the Arab Central Region, but not over America.
The people are not anti-american, they are anti-imperialism and we, the US do dabble where we should not. So it is Push and shove to Gain a diplomatic upper hand. Iran wants American friendship, not American influence over the goverment, in place.
The media is turning 50 words into 5000 with personal speculation of limited in country information, and we as a population, both countries, are falling for it.
Isreal has a younger majority now and they are a bit more electic in thier choices and wants, they also know the costs, but they play it close to the vest, because they do have a right to exhist, as well as Palestine does.
It is a man-made mess over there, and we had a hand in it!
I do not believe the news is accurate for this situation at all. We are being led by the nose, so to speak.
Headline news "Iran is ready to announce it's advances in nuclear developement. Perhaps 2012 is the year the world ends.
We've often thought that having the greatest deaddly weapons would be a deterrent but we ignore those people who's minds boarder on madness.
Hope for resumption of talks with Iran about it's nuclear program.
2-17-12NYTimes--Negotiations With Iran May Resume Soon
Talks With Iran Over Nuclear Program May Resume - NYTimes.com
An offer by Iran for talks came as a telecommunications network vital to the global banking industry prepared to expel Iranian banks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/world … ?ref=world
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