Soccer field at Gitmo

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   logic,commonsenseposted 12 years ago

   $740,000 of taxpayer money to build a soccer field for the prisoners at Gitmo!  Guess Obama is counting on getting their votes!
   How many homeless children could that feed clothe and shelter?  Why is Obama spending our hard earned money on people that want to kill us?  Those prisoners live better and are fed better than millions of Americans.  Where is the sense in that?
   What kind of morons would even consider approving that?

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Uhhh because potential criminals still deserve to be treated with dignity?
      
      
      In July 2005, 242 detainees were moved out of Guantanamo, including 173 that were released without charge, and 69 transferred to the governments of other countries, according to the U.S. Department of Defense. (for example)
      
      These are not even convicted criminals that means they are presumed innocent, so what you are saying is why should we spend money providing exersize facilities for innocent people being held in detention? Uh because it's humane? it's less than most prisons have and those are for guilty convicted me, it really is a no brainer.

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         logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So they deserve a $740,000 soccer field?
         These guys want to KILL us!  That's why they are at Gitmo to begin with!  Is that humane? You are right it is a NO brainer!

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            couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Seriously. It's disgusting. Yes, let them get some exercise and play in a field like they did when they were kids. I want my $740,000. back damit. This shit's really starting to piss me off.

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               lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Join the club. Ive been angry since 9/11.
               
               And the money NEVER stops going to those perps.

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         habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Most US prisons have a $740,000 soccer field? I didn't know that. I'll have to do some research. I think the money could have been better spent on feeding hungry Americans. PLUS - there were already 2 recreation facilities at Gitmo, so now the detainees have three.
         
         Wow! Only 10 of the prisons in Florida have air conditioning!

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            Peelander Gallyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Those prisoners are being held on the basis of due process, though. Indefinite detention with no due process is not something that should exist in the advanced world, and I don't know why Obama has continued to support it, though the government may know lots of terrifying things of which they keep us blissfully unaware. It's possible that it's been deemed a necessity to keep the place open, but that they're completely reforming it to be less of a torture dungeon.
            
            Also, this reminds me of the Solyndra scandal. What happened with that company sucks, but the government gave them $535 million (plus another $25 million from the state of California) in loans based on excellent revenue outlooks. It ended up being a terrible investment and a waste of money, but people blew it completely out of proportion. It'd make a lot more sense to whine about the $845 *billion* we've wasted in Iraq. The total cost of that clusterf** to our economy is estimated at $3 *trillion*.
            
            But I guess that's Obama's fault, according to a lot of people.

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               habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I don't approve of torture, including waterboarding. We wasted money in Iraq. I don't think Obama would leave Gitmo open after promising to close it unless he was sure the "detainees" were a real threat. I believe the detainees and prisoners in the US should have access to some form of recreation and exercise, but $740,000 is a bit excessive - especially when so many completely innocent people in our own country are suffering.

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                  rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It's Congress that wants it to stay open.
                  I have read that Gitmo is the most expensive prison anywhere. It doesn't make sense, does it? Everything has to be shipped in, so you have additional expense. This is an older article about the cost of maintaining the prison. There hasn't been a new captive since 2008.
                  http://ht.ly/7nqDn
                  
                  It costs $800,000 a year to keep one detainee.

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                     lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     And I'm watching Congress today....Lieberman and McCain are pushing for military action in Syria.....and military action in Iran....they slip right on by the radar.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Damn, I could build a soccer field for $100! Why didn't they ask me!?

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      lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think it's a humane and smart idea.
      Locking people up is a mental disease...and it creates mental reactions.
      Anything to blow off steam is a good idea. And these prisoners are still people, though you would probably like me to think of them as "savages", like Sarah Palin.
      
      BTW--since you are on the outrage wagon, we send Israel 8 mil a day...that could feed and shelter a lot of Americans too.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I could build a soccer field EASILY for under $1000.

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      2. 60

         logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         They want to KILL us!  Call them whatever you want, they are the enemy and if we faced them on the battlefield we would kill them or they would kill us, not build us a damn soccer field!

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            Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You now you really have to change your username... The majority are, in the eyes of the law innocent, and must be treated as such.
            Those that are convicted should be treated as criminals, with caution and security but humanely. That is how civilized society works, I'm sorry you can't understand that.

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               couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I think what logic is saying is that they want to kill us and likely would go back to their loyalty to their side if released. He's not saying don't be humane, he's saying don't build them a soccer field. And contrary to what the law says, in the U.S. you're guilty until proven innocent. After paying your attorney with all of your $25,000. middle class income. Think about that. How many people are in Gitmo? Divide that into $740,000 and you've got their annual U.S. tax free income.

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                  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Who put them there in the first place?
                  
                  The past decade has been a human rights NIGHTMARE, and we are right up there with the best of them.
                  
                  Any thing that adds to humane, GODLY behavior is a big plus.

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                  John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  But what about, for instance, the British people released from Gitmo into British government care and immediately freed because there was not a shred of evidence against them?
                  
                  And why if you all are so sure of their guilt why do they have to be held off American soil where your laws don't protect them?

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            lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            We have different ideas on who the enemy is. You cheer and defend the ones I consider enemies....so you have no moral high-ground, nor any real complaint.
            
            Much more of our tax monies go to my enemies than yours.

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2. 66

   Charles Jamesposted 12 years ago

   What price sports field would you think appropriate?

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   1. 60

      logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Solitary confinement would be appropriate at a minimum for someone that is trying to kill me.
      Or we should just turn them loose and Obama could send drones after them.  Less messy.  Requires no conscience and since he doesn't have a political one anyway, it should work out.

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         Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So according to you anyone who is arrested should just be treated as guilty based on assumption, have you heard of the right to presumption of innocence, it's the foundation of our legal system, your statements violate every safeguard that the legal system has specifically to protect people from false conviction and human right's abuse, most of the detainees are awaiting trial which means BY LAW they are innocent until proven guilty thus they are all presumed innocent and deserve rights while pending trial. The reason it costs so much is everything has to be shipped in from the US rather than through Cuba and all the workers have to be transferred from the US and accommodated while working on the construction, furthermore in such a tight security prison the construction can not be haphazard it's specifically constructed so no weapons can be made out of it etc. also I am not sure but it's possible the security perimeter has to be extended.

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            couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's the American way. In case you haven't heard, the foundation of our legal system is MIA.
            
            Here's an idea. Put up a 12' electric chain link fence on the outside and another non-electric on the inside of a soccer size field. Field done. It's not that I'm against humane exercise for prisoners. I believe it can only help their mental state and outlook. I'm against government extravagance. We've all heard stories about paying $100 for a lightbulb. They're true. A friend of mine who owns an auto body shop used to get paid $200. per box to spray paint footlockers when such things were in use. (Don't know if they still are). And that was 1979.

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               lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Your America, not mine.

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               Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You're comment is so incorrect it's frightening, firstly I bet you don't have the smallest idea what a perimeter for some of the worlds most wanted men costs, fences 4 layers of, multiple guard towers, flattened and cleared areas all around to allow a line of sight not to mention the wages, the shipping of all this equipment etc. the price to me is really unsurprising.
               
               More importantly NO go read criminal law right now, presumption of innocence is the foundation of our legal system which means anyone not convicted should be treated as innocent except in areas otherwise mandated by a judge (such as detention in the first place.)

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         Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You have no evidence that they were trying to kill you!!
         
         That's hilarious, isn't it? You condemned those people without a trial!!
         
         HAHAHHAHAHHhahahaahahh!!! They'll never see their families again, even though they might be innocent!!!
         
         aahahahahahah!!!

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   2. 60

      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Charles - IMO, $0. is appropriate. The less the better. No high tech field. Just a field. Here's an idea. Let them play in an open field. Anyone who tries to escape, shoot them. It's just an idea. One that probably wouldn't work.

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         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Shoot them! That's a good idea, save on the embarrassing questions wouldn't it?

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3. 77

   moiragallagaposted 12 years ago

   $740,000 for a soccer field? For me the beauty of soccer is that it is a simple game where all you need is some open space to play in. How much will it cost to mark out a field and set up a pair of goals at each end?

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      habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I was wondering the same thing.

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      Disturbiaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "How much will it cost to mark out a field and set up a pair of goals at each end?"  $740,000 apparently.

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4. 60

   Evan G Rogersposted 12 years ago

   "Today, the US government spent $1 million dollars building an ant hill. The love-filled Liberals responded by saying that 'inmates deserve to be treated humanely, and ants are totally humane'. However, the hate-filled conservatives responded by saying 'those derned terr'ists should be killed instead of lookin' at ants!!!'."
   
   "The logic-filled libertarians simply asked 'wow, I thought ants worked for free', to which liberals demanded that, clearly, libertarians love slave labor."

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Eh I smiled you usually do better. I am not sure any of us are truly knowledgeable on what is required to build a new soccer field in a super super max prison, one would imagine more guards for the construction, an extension of the security perimeter which means hundreds if not thousands of meters of wire, guard towers not to mention the regular things like the stands, flattening the field and the wages of the vetted workers brought in from the US I assume you meant that you expected the prisoners to build the field, but unfortunately in a prison with that level of security requirement its not really feasible.
      
      Besides it's not somuch the cost that I am supporting, I don't know enough to say whether it's exessive or not, what I do object to is this idea that everyone who is a gitmo even the majority which are unconvicted and the many who will be released without charge are all horrible terrorists and thus should be treated like animals, you either have a due process and a presumption of innocence or you have an inferior legal system, that should actually be in line with your beliefs as a libertarian.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Every soccer field I've ever seen:
         
         Bulldoze a flat space of land (if needed).
         Put grass on it (if needed)
         One bottle of spray paint every few months.
         Two goals.
         A ball.
         
         If that costs over 1000, then ... I guess inflation really is taking hold.

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            Peelander Gallyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            This is such a ridiculous argument; you're not taking into account the transportation of the equipment and materials required, how many workers that involves and the aforementioned logistics and increased security required to accomplish such a thing at a supermax detention facility. Why don't you find out how much it would cost you to plow up, fertilise and sod an area the size of a regulation soccer field right now? That alone would obviously cost over $1K. Also, what lovemychris said below.

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            1. 60

               Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Oh, my bad. I guess shipping over a goal, some grass, and a few shovels would probably double the cost.
               
               Ok, OK.... give me $10k, and I - alone - will have it done in a month. Easily.
               
               PS- we're here to discuss a ONE MILLION DOLLAR SOCCER FIELD, not Israel.

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                  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  10k, three months - done.

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                     Charles Jamesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Might be cheaper to ship them a different kind of grass.

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         couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Josak - They're not treated like animals. Well, except for the cages. They get superior food according to their religious determinants, religious books by demand, and secure and comfortable bedding. A little waterboarding and juvenile name calling which was exacerbated by media was not the American way. At least not the American citizen way. How naive some people remain about the workings of the U.S. government. Well, look at it this way. At least we're not sawing their heads off on international television. And that's no joke.

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5. 76

   lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

   We're sending 8 mil a day to Israel.

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      logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Still doesn't justify spending $740,000 of taxpayer money to build a soccer field for terrorists.

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         lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         But you say nothing of sending 8 mil to other terrorists. Every day.

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            couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You think Israeli's are terrorists? Why? And yes, sending money to Israel pisses me off, too but I don't think they're any more terrorist than anyone else, like Palistine.

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               lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery … mp;index=2
               
               STOP!

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      lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ahahaha! just clicked here...
      
      http://www.rense.com/

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   Charles Jamesposted 12 years ago

   This would not be American defence contractors ripping off the American taxpayer again would it?

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      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Most definitely it would.
      
      Too bad Obama can't stand up against these people. I guess he's just a spineless loser.

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         lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe he values his life, and those of his wife and children.

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            couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Another president intimidated and controlled by the mob?

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               John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Finally admits to big business being the mob!

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      Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Good point!

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7. 35

   independentmindedposted 12 years ago

   How stupid can one get?  The fact that there's a soccer field in Gitmo means that the Obama Administration and Congress just want Gitmo to stay open.. indefinitely.  How can so many people miss that?

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      Peelander Gallyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Actually I commented about that before.. Indefinite detention is a disturbing concept to be sure, but I guess paying for the soccer field is the really offensive bit.

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8. 74

   Hugh Williamsonposted 12 years ago

   The money blown on the soccer field isn't prisoner coddling or just for show. It's how the system works. In gov't when money is allocated, it must be spent or else less will be allocated for that item in the next cycle.
   
   You can be sure the soccer field was just a handy sinkhole to use up some money and thus protect next year's funding approval against any reduction.
   
   That's how government works -- you are rewarded for spending money, not saving it. Any mid level gov't bureaucrat can tell you that you ask for twice the funding that you need, and, if you get lucky and get extra monies allocated, bury the largess quickly in, say, a soccer field.

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   lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

   Rosanne put that link up on twitter. Here was a response:
   
   @TheRealRoseanne so you hate Butch i guess...theres a bigot. or possibly you. A bigot against the Israel and the Jews.
   
   Rosanne: 2 b clear: I believe that Israel has the right 2 exist-but BIBI and right wing warnongering is the way to kill it. thanks for ur time!
   
   
   http://www.roytov.com/articles/popularresistance.htm

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