Ten reasons why homophobics are wrong

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Rainbowloveposted 14 years ago
I've been very hurt by the many things people have said to me and I was getting really tired of the ridiculous excuses. And I know it says ten reasons but I could only figure out five, sorry

1.) Unlike many straight homophobic people, the LGBT society has not tried to interfere in the Heterosexual lives and who they marry. What if we were to say that people with the same color hair weren't allowed to marry eachother? Or people with the same color eyes, or people who both had two feet? All of which sound ridiculous hense the word RIDICULOUS. We as a whole do not interfere with their lives so why interfere with ours?

2.) No where in the bible does it say that being any part of LGBT are you going to hell, many people try to say that god does not want us but those who say this have obviously never opened the bible. In the bible it lists many sins and part of those sins is STEALING A CANDY BAR, or CURSING, or HATING ONE ANOTHER. Hmm... doesn't make sense right? Never once did it say that being gay was the unforgivable sin. IN FACT, it says that you will not be forgiven if you don't believe in god himself. Never does it say that being gay means your out of the 'club'.

3.)Being gay does not mean that everyone around you is going to turn gay, in fact I have many straight friends who are constantly gossiping about their love lives with their boyfriends and they enjoy hearing my story too. My preference on who I love has not deterred their opinion in fact I've even ASKED one of them if they could see themselves with a girl and their answer was 'no I love guys way to much' so stop trying to say gay rubs off on others that just makes you sound STUPID.

4.)The common myth that many straight homophobic parents come up with is that being a gay parent means that your child will turn out just the same way. ACTUALLY, many gay parents try to encourage their kids to be who they want to be and to accept everyone for who they are. If their child wants to be gay it is their own choice but many of the times we've just brought in yet another bright, loving, and ACCEPTING kid into this world.

5.)Banning gay marriage was one way to signify that our country is corrupt. In the Constitution it states that all men and women are equal without discrimination. Does anyone know what that means? Here I'll spell it out for you:unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice && the cognitive process whereby two or more stimuli are distinguished. Thank you, please read up on your stuff.

There's probably a lot more but I can't think of any. But also adding on to my number 5 thing is the fact that back in the old days they had blacks as slaves and many found this inhumane well taking away the rights that we were given is also inhumane. Just because our sexual preference is different does not mean that it is any different than to decide that treating a person of a different color is inhumane. Because of all of the hate that is going around the children of this millennium will learn how to hate their friends and their friends parents for who they are and who they want to be. For many kids who are afraid to come out because their parents are homophobic I am very sorry and I would gladly talk to you because no matter what we as a whole are what will change this world for the better and I don't care what anyone says about who we are because being who we are is not something to be ashamed of. So stand up for what you believe in and you'll have the rest of your community to back you up. We need to stand together as a whole and protect each other from the harm of others. In loving memory of all of those who have lost a loved one due to the ignorance of others who believed that being gay meant earning a death bed.

-Chelsie
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yer totally right, and I totally agree and support you here.
  
  More or less. Except for the bible/god part, but I won't quibble over it if you won't.
  
  Pity the haters. They're clueless, and their days are numbered by social evolution.
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katiem2posted 14 years ago
It's funny most often your sexual preferences are not the concern of others until you come out. I feel people in general have many uncomfortable issues with sex. Best of Love and Happiness to you!
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  Rainbowloveposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know, it's possibly the fact that they are afraid of something new. Have you ever thought about the meaning of gay? it means happiness. At the proposition 8 rally I noticed that the people for proposition 8 were the ones hitting the ones against proposition 8 with signs. My fiance actually was hit with a sign while she was walking by because someone didn't like that she was gay. People are just very ignorant and don't try to accept others for who they are. I have to be completely honest when they passed that law I honestly cried myself to sleep. (I don't want to sound like a baby or anything.) But it honestly hurt my feelings for one and for two it made me not want to classify myself as an american because I thought we were all equal.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People judge. People judge with no pertinent data beyond their "gut" Christians tend to be the most judgemental people of all, but it is from attempting to understand the divine while darkness remains covered up in the soul. Would it be better for a man to hate a man, and kill him? Or a woman to hate a woman, and kill her? Some may believe that hate is the way, but God knows the heart and mind. If because of judgement you hate someone, that is a real thing loosed upon our world. It takes material form, and creates pain, sadness and death, wether indirectly, or directly. God would not that hate were allowed to become manifest in those who have already claimed to have renounced it. Tried to explain this in other forums, but some of the christians started flipping out, because on one point I said that God considers homosexual activity an abomination, but on the overall point, I said that people judging another is outside of man's territory, which of course, opened up a "Rule of Law" issue, which I have yet to address. We in our society judge criminals in courtrooms, and execute those we have decided are too bad to remain alive. Sometimes we send innocents to prison, and sometimes we execute them. What further proof is needed that man's judgement can be flawed? God's cannot. When you know God, accept him, if he gives you feeling that homosexual activity is wrong, then sin no more, if he gives you feeling that it is better to love than to hate, then leave judgement to God, because He is in you, and you are in him, have faith that He ultimately wants us to accept others. Love, Peace, and Brotherhood.
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Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago
Um, yeah, 10. Really good reasons count twice.

As inferred, sexual identity is very personal. I don't ask my friends and family about *their* sex lives, and I think identifying ourselves by a sexual preference is a mistake. It sets up a scenario of instant side-taking. Being gay, hetero, or whatever, is not who you are. It's indicative of behaviors, not of who the person inherently is.

You should flesh this out (so to speak....) and hub it. Really, please do it and let me know when it's done so I can thumbs-up it.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
LGBT has been caught many times attempting to influence our education system and push thier immorality agenda on our children as normal behavoir.

No one cares what they or gaypeople do... we do get tired of the agenda being pushed in our schools and all throughout our societal institutions, etc.

It is really very simple.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is very simple. And hetero people have been forcing sex ed on our kids in schools long before that in all kinds in of "inappropriate ways". Two wrongs don't make a right. And generalizations about groups of people reveal how little truthful knowledge some people have (or perhaps refuse to accept).
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  Teresa McGurkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know where to begin. I'll just say that education should open minds, not close them; I'll leave it at that.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So your point is you don't care what LGBT's or gay people do?
  
  Bravo sir, bravo.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Ron... but you never seem to get anyone's point... so no biggy.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well yours are always sort of...
  
  um....
  
  what's the word?
  
  cloudy?
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  Teresa McGurkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do we need to explain that the "bravo, bravo" comment was ironic?
  
  I don't know where to begin. I'll just say that there are those who understand irony, and those who don't, and I'll leave it at that.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I could have said LOGO, but that would have really confused him.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I understood just fine... I also understand his inability to grasp anothers point is most definitly by design.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK then; explain it. If you get it right I'll petition HP staff to bump you up to a "5".
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am happy at 1... or 2... 5 is to high... I would feel like an elitist and have to leave hubs again for another couple weeks.
  
  I am a simple man, ron.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I have nothing to add.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow again. Amazingly low hubber score, dude. I have never seen anything quite like that. I mean, everybody kinda automatically gets an 80, I thought. How in the world did you accomplish a 3?
  
  Did you earn that all by yourself?
  
  Holy hubscores, batman. I am impressed.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But it's up from 1!
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Read his hubs. He earned it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda? Is that you?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you don't care if they get married? Good for you.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
Are you for real?...

One... "your kids"?... Are you saying that for centuries homosexuals have had children and sent them to the "hetero" schools only to have to suffer their being indoctrinated into the "hetero" world?

You have fun with that one... lemme know how it works out for you.

And which generalization would you be talking about... LGBT?... It is a fact that that group has been hyper-active in its undertakings to advance a homo-centric agenda throughout the schools and the education system in general.

So whats your point?...

And homo-sexuality is a choice... nothing genetic about it.

No proof of a gay gene what so-ever. So it follows that no "gay children" are being indoctrinated into a hetero life-style.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. Always blows my mind how one-sided people can be.
  
  Why no respect for them having to put up with our world but all kinds of bullcrap fear when it comes to us having to accept them into it? Do straight people own the earth?
  
  LGBT's only agenda is to be accepted. Why do you find that so distressing?
  
  And you know nothing about nature vs. nurture on this, noone does for sure, however, the evidence available certainly supports nature in this case.
  
  Not that it matters, as long as this is a free country.
  
  Say it is a choice, which you apparently made at some point in your life, it's a choice that belongs solely to each individual. Why do you wish to deny them their's?
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So I guess other homosexual animals make this "choice".
  
  How interesting. I wonder if homosexual birds go to hell?
  
  You really don't know much about homosexuality, do you? Does that ever bother you? I'm guessing no, am I right?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Keep up, read more widely.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beg to differ guy, the discovery of the "Gay" gene was announced on the news networks (Specifically Fox) weeks ago. Gotta look at current events.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, you believe everything from the news right? You're too funny! Especially, when you said FOX news.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So because a gay gene would make the great Cagsil wrong, it can't be true?
  
  Oh, that makes it easy.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But that's for female mice and The Six Formerly Known As His Threesomeness has already told us there is no such thing as homosexuality in animals.
  
  Actually, he probably is a Six, a Six who made a Choice.
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  Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No proof of a gay gene what so-ever. So it follows that no "gay children" are being indoctrinated into a hetero life-style.
  
  That's not true in my case. I knew I was gay from a very young age. And I also knew I could tell anyone or be seen with anyone other than a girl. From about the age of five I had to lie and pretend. As a teenager I had to hide my disgust while having sex with girls. As an adult I had to blend into my work place. So, I give you true life experience when I say I'm proof of a gay gene. And as far as indoctrination goes, I just played along to get along. I never lost sight of who I am. I'm pretty angry about the treatment I and other gay children then and now, have to suffer through.
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
Boy, do I feel stupid.
All these years I thought gayness was something you caught from the toilet seats at school.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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Rainbowloveposted 14 years ago
I myself can say that I never once said being gay is genetic or that it was a choice. I said neither.
If you think your right answer these questions.
How can a woman be with a man if she is afraid to see,touch, or hear about the penis?
How can a man be with a woman if he is afraid to see, touch or hear about a vagina?
There is no way to decide to against your own fears and touch a penis if your afraid to or have it touch you.
The same goes for men, but I will say this if you believe that it is genetic or that it is a choice than you are obviously straight and have NEVER been in a gay persons shoes.
I don't understand why straight people insist on saying that it is a choice when choice is irrelevant in what your prefer.
I, myself, find the dick ugly and disgusting. I enjoy vagina, boobs and the girls delicate skin.
If it is a choice than being straight is a choice.
What if this was in reverse?
What if gays overpopulated straights and we were fighting over straight marriage being legal.
And straight people were fighting for their rights?
You make no sense old man.
:]]
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have issues... I have not spoken to you at all during this thread. Other than my original post to begin with in regards to the topic. if you wish to continue to rant at me feel free. I am used to leftists and wild rampant spoutings.
  
  So.... I am going to ignore you now.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My answers to your question young lady. Do have a great day.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't get you sometimes, Cags.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look at the post...things are in bold type? Cannot tell the difference? Come on...pay attention.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it surprised me, too. I thought you were an intelligent person, but you seem to be arguing against homosexual rights and equality?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And quite snottily and rudely as well.
  
  Ah well, such is life.
  
  See ya all later. Been real fun. Haven't wasted this much time in the forums in ages.
  
  Miss you all and love you all but if I come back here on Monday kick me out cause I'm supposed to be working...
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, how in the world did you arrive at that conclusion from my post???
  
  *this should be interesting...
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then explain to us what the heck you are saying.
  
  I honestly don't know. You insist that sexuality is a choice. I think that is utterly ridiculous.
  
  Most people who spout such nonsense go on to insist that it is the wrong choice. If you are not doing that, then fine, I have no beef with you. You are wrong, but it does not matter.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When you commit to sexual acts, it requires choice, the selection options are male, female and animal(in some countries).
  
  I do not care what label you prefer to put on people. But, understand that every action is choice, as is decision making.
  
  To think otherwise is to think that one person has no choice in the process and THAT is utter nonsense.
  
  Edit: You have a choice in your own actions.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sexuality is not an action.
  
  It is a preference. An interest. A desire. Even if you never have sex with anyone but yourself, you still gave sexuality.
  
  Sexuality is not a sexual act. You are confused.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deciding which sex you want to be with IS an action, regardless of whether or not, you want it to be.
  To make a preference, you have to select, that means pick...that means choose.
  This comes from being curious, but does not negate choice about what to be curious about.
  Again, begins with choice to choose your desires which to follow up on.
  If you never have sex with someone else, other than self?? You are kidding right? Sex requires two people or did you forget that?
  Sexuality is a choice for sexual acts. Not confused. But, you must be.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are wrong. I already know from other interactions that you'll never see that, so I'll let it go.
  
  I could choose to have sex with a man. I'd make that choice rather than die, for example. I would make that choice if I had to in order to eat, and I'd make it long before I was even close to dying. That would be a choice. I might even make it in exchange for a big pile of money :-)
  
  That wouldn't change my sexual preference, which never was a choice.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cags... you know it doesn't matter what it is... for the purposes of thier conversations, things are as they want them to be.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look what just latched onto your coattails , Cags.
  
  If THAT doesn't convince you that you are wrong, nothing will :-)
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's more than obvious you know less about your life than I thought. Oh well.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cags I understand this is coming from your desire to make people understand they can determine their own life, but I think you're taking it too far.
  
  You say you can choose which sex you want to be with. Not true. There's only one sex I want to be with no matter what I choose.
  
  I don't know, Hon, more importantly I think it may benefit you to check how you come across to people in your writing. It doesn't ever help when you sound smugly self-righteous, belittling, or get so hung up on any one idea that you can't see anything else.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You gotta know you're wrong when the big '3' is backing you up.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You guys run from every debate to hide behind insults and attaks... and then think your so cool. Just like the leant leftists I know and love.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What debate? Hey look, you're a four now! Congratulations!
  
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gotta be one or the other, unless of course you think it is disease, or a virus. Nah... couldn't be!
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mega1posted 14 years ago
it scares me when a lot of people get married - you look at them and you think - MARRIAGE? THESE TWO? I THINK NOT! haz nuthing to do with their gender.
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
Sexuality is a spectrum.
I have no idea how many people fall naturally on either end or in the middle. But I do know that open-mindedness can (and does) enable experimentation.
I do believe that some people truly are biologically predestined to prefer members of their own sex vs. members of the opposite sex.
I also believe that some of the loudest protestors against homosexuality might actual enjoy it --if they let go of their fear/prejudice and gave it a try!
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  Rainbowloveposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your awesome. :]]
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Flies eat poop. I don't have to try it to know I don't like it.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I actually agree with you, and I'm gay. I've never been with a woman and know enough about what I'm naturally attracted to to know that experimentation is pointless.
  
  But you and I are Kinsey 1 and 6, respectively. The 2-5s are another matter. As difficult as it is for those at the ends of the range to understand it, human sexuality is along a spectrum.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Close mindedness cultivates unacceptance. Y'all think Jesus, Buddha, or Ghandi were intolerant of others and close minded? Even those "heathens" the native americans accepted those who were sexually different in their preferences.
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
Whoa.
Leftists and wild rampant spoutings?
I must be following a different thread. Pardon the intrusion.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He says that so often it's almost his sig.
  
  I'm getting better at skipping his posts since, like his hubs, they tend to be parroted and unoriginal.
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  Rainbowloveposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He was referring to me so don't feel too hurt. He's just being rude to me haha. He's stalking me.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have not been rude to you.
  
  Your the one ranting and attaking people solely because they won't agree with you.
  
  And liv... is just liv... i know where liv stands.
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  Rainbowloveposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When have I attacked anyone? haha.
  Just because everything I say goes against everything you say doesn't mean I'm attacking you. I was joking around about you being rude to me. In fact I do kind of find it weird how you followed my topics though.
  But honestly I never attacked you.
  Especially physically, because that would be rather funny to see me pop up through your computer to beat you with a shovel. haha.
  So no, actually I was NOT attacking anyone at all.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Microsoft is working on it, be PATIENT!!!
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mega1posted 14 years ago
There is love scene in Girl Who Played With Fire - just about convinced me - now to find some older girl who wants to play!
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
The problem is- people arguing it is not a choice. That is utter B.S.! Science backs up! A person chooses before any action is taken.

Anyone can be attracted to anyone, for almost any reason.

I know women who told me to my face in front of dozens of people(so as to embarrass me), they would never sleep with, and out of 5, I've had 3 of them. We're they lesbian? Because they CHOSE not to sleep with me. No. or Maybe? Who knows and who cares.

Mine is not argue whether or not it is right or wrong(as of yet in this conversation), but do not tell me it is not a choice.
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  Rainbowloveposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did this just start up in this topic too?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did what? The argument of choice has been the argument I've been having. I do not know what you are arguing about. But, I gathered from your posts that you do not like people who tell you it is right or wrong.
  
  Again, that's just what I gathered. I was pointing out it and how it is based on choice, so as to educate you about human mind.
  
  Everything begins with thoughts, those thoughts turn into actions. Before you commit any action, you must choose what to do.
  
  There is no way around choice. That's all I was saying.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't know my nephew when he was a little kid. Used to be with you on that one. Now, I really don't know. Genetically, it is a supportable conclusion that it is predispositional. After all, each of us is half our mother and half our father. Other kinds of imbalances are common in mankind and all other species on the planet. For all we know, it's a mutative gene, leading to an evolutionary dead end. Peace, Cag!.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Big difference between an imbalance... and genetic homosexuality.
  
  Imbalances infers a lack of normality, or not to be in balance.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was referring to a genetic imbalance as opposed to a chemical imbalance, Doc
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The word imbalance infers what it infers.
  
  You used it... whether chemical or genetic, it would still infer a lack of normality, a skewing of the balance or normality of the genetic code.
  
  Don't blame me... you said it.
  
  Perhaps you should choose a different word than imbalance.
  
  Say what you mean.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So what? Not typical doesn't mean wrong.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you see, "wrong", anywhwere above in my posts.
  
  And the "evidence" in no way leans toward what you claim.
  
  Just more progressive propaganda.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's implied quite strongly in every post.
  
  And yes it does.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually dude, it's a genetic mutation which happens. Could even be God's way of thinning the Heterosexual herd. Tweak the genes and watch 'em die off. Better than sterilization
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not sure if you read any of my previous posts, besides the one you responded to?, but your statement implies that you didn't.
  
  In case, you haven't noticed, or learned, evolutionary dead end? Is an oxymoron. Evolution accounts for the evolution of existence, not only human beings. So please.
  
  We evolved to our present situation, through manipulation of factual evidence discovered by science and common sense has been robbed from most.
  
  In today's society it promotes that an individual has rights. Those rights, are based on a two part equation- (a)right to life and (b) right to choose or right of choice, whichever you like.
  
  These two fundamental rights are to be up held. The problem is when people have no moral value, then harm befalls others. So, laws are in place to punish those who harm others.
  
  You have the right to life, however, your rights are not to infringe upon that of another person's right to life.
  
  You have the right to choice, however, your rights are not infringe upon that of another person's right of choice.
  
  Which means, you live your life and they live their life.
  
  Too many people running around telling other people how to live. Instead of teaching them about life and understanding it.
  
  This message gets blurred with the lines of politics and what the "majority" types think rules. The majority of citizens in America are of some religious practice/faith, so this drives the fight against homosexuality type behavior.
  
  Again, the message on TV/Cable news networks and the truth is far from one another. If someone live their life by that lifestyle, then they have a right to do so, because of right of choice or right to choose. Religious folk need mind their business.
  
  The other problem is what is "normal" acceptable moral behavior?
  
  And does homosexuality, the lifestyle actually qualify as moral or immoral? The behavior, by religious folk is that it is immoral and a direct violation against god's will.
  
  However, the religious folk need to remember their place. The self-righteous attitudes are ancient history, and not acceptable any more. The self-righteous is a long forgotten position in America, the second- Equality For ALL was established. That put everyone who lives in America, on the same footing. No one is better than the other.
  
  Well, I guess that's my rant on this topic. Take for whatever you will.
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  Rainbowloveposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you on this. Very well put. It made a whole lot more sense than some of the other comments. I was getting confused with all the sentences mixed together.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't initially discussing anything else about it, except that it was a choice.
  
  Then, some decided to make comments on my comment, which is the reason for my long winded post.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gee Cag. The paleontology books are full of "Evolutionary Deadends" can we say Neanderthal? Homo erectus, Giganpithicus. The list goes on and on, soon, we may even be able to add Modern Man to the list... Oh yeah WE WON'T BE HERE! And who you calling religious. Merely because I know how a rocket works doesn't make me an astronaut! You haven't read my stuff either. I tear down the religious edifice, and what I intend to leave is Man standing alone.
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
A genetic imbalance that creates a chemical imbalance perhaps? The various levels of testosterone experienced in the womb. Read about that once somewhere. Or was it estrogen? Or both?

I forget. Whatever it was is supplied to the baby in the womb via the mother's body. It could have nothing to do with genetics, but still be something you're born with.

Science hasn't figured it out, but all the evidence is leaning very much towards nature over nurture or personal choice. The christians haven't figured it out yet either, despite their vehement insistance otherwise.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, your dig shouldn't be public forum, cause it's a private matter. I'm not curious about your sleeping arrangements, as I feel you shouldn't be curious about mine. It's NUNYA and should stay that way. The thing that worries the part of the populace addressed in this piece is that the gay community seems (I said SEEMS) to be intent on flaunting their sexual preferences. After all, heterosexuals don't get their own parades, and wether your preference is known to others (some people don't have a clue!) or not, "Gay" bashing is also an accusation which can be thrown around rather easily. Most wouldn't mind y'all comin' out of the closet, just as long as you kept it in the privacy of your own bedrooms.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And would you allow them to marry? With the same level of sanctity straight people pretend to enjoy?
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
I have read all four pages of this thread and I am amazed that you folks can not seem to under stand that you are arguing about 2 different things.
Group A,
"I have no choice in how I am attracted to or in which gender make my blood boil."
You are right! This is not a choice. it is a fact of your life.

Group B,
"You choose to act on the feelings or you can choose not too."
You are correct! Before anyone enters into a relationship they make a choice about that relationship.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It comes down now more to the issue of Genetic Homosexuality, there is no scientific proof to support that assertion. We are aware that at some point there is a choice made, some just do not want to admit it.
  
  Science though, does not assume a thing to exist without evidence, that is the antithesis of science.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am going to go out on a limb here and ask you three questions?
  1) Are You a straight male?
  2) Are you married or in a relationship with a woman?
  3) did you ever once need a scientist to tell you how you felt?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do I get three from you?...
  
  Again it is not genetic as some would propogate with such blatent disregard for the facts.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will answer any question you ask I have nothing to hide. Ask away!
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
  
  Yes.
  
  No.
  
  But that does not prove the existence of a gay gene, omha.
  
  Yes. The desire to have inter-course is a genetic imperative... but the choice of mates is just that.
  
  A choice.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In your opinion is there any other choice for you? Could you simply decide to be attracted to a man?
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe that's the answer.
  
  If we posit a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being strong attraction to men and 10 being strong attraction to women, , then if I am a 10, I would feel I had no choice. But if I were a 5, then perhaps, rather than just leaving it at that, I did make a choice and forced myself along one path.
  
  So that would explain it. Perry Mason made a choice and thinks everyone else did too.
  
  It would also explain the cases of strident gay bashers who later announce that they are gay and the flip-floppers who get caught, find religion again very publicly, and go back to what they think is straight. They DID make choices.
  
  That could explain the insistence on choice.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you might be onto something there. As a 1 myself, I certainly don't see being gay as a choice as forcing myself to be attracted to women would feel wholly unnatural.
  
  Maybe TMMason is bisexual is bisexual, and suppresses his gay urges by "spouting" all sorts of "leant" conservative propaganda? For him, not acting on gay attractions is indeed a choice, which makes him all the more likely to ignore the plethora of scientific evidence suggesting otherwise.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's hardly unusual. Look how many congress critters and other politicos we have had who voted against gays and poured out the hate speech and oops, turns out they were secretly gay.
  
  They probably "chose" too.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it is a choice... and all your insults do PC, is show the dribbling surge of your intellectual prowress.
  
  Maybe one day you will figure out that insults do not win debates. But there are many leant leftists on here who cannot do anything except attack and sneer.
  
  So your in good company.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you insult and sneer and make slimy implications just as much as anyone else.
  
  So if it is a choice, be quiet and let them make their own.
  
  True, there's no definitive proof yet for how or why homosexuals are homosexuals. So you think they should stop claiming to be born that way.
  
  Well, since there's no proof of your god either though, we expect you to stop claiming one exists in return. Deal? Yes, I thought not.
  
  There is plenty of proof however, that homosexuality exists. And it isn't going away. So be quiet, live and let live, judge not less thee be judged, make your own choices, and let them make their's.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A similar argument is:
  
  We don't know exactly how the universe started, so the universe doesn't exist.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We can see the universe liv... stop being so simplistic in your arguments.
  
  Also as I stated in another thread...
  
  I want to know why, if homo-sexuality is so normal... all of you are so adverse to it being a choice.
  
  Is it that your ashamed of your behavior?
  
  Is it that if it were genetic, it wouldn't be your fault?
  
  Seems to me you all should be proud of your choices... if there is, as you all say, nothing wrong with it.
  
  If it is so normal stand up and be proud of your CHOICE.
  
  At the risk of you suspending me because you don't agree...
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is my choice not to be closeted, and to be open about whom I'm attracted to.
  
  I assume you'd rather people who are attracted to the same sex stifle it and pretend to be attracted to the opposite sex. That doesn't fly in my world.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is your Choice... exactly... that is the whole basis of the conversation.
  
  If you choose to be gay, all the power to you.
  
  But you do not get to preach about it being genetic without scientific evidence.
  
  Of which there is none.
  
  You all keep trying to turn this into a Mason's bashing gays, thing... and it isn't.
  
  It is a Mason correcting those who are promoting lies as science and stating science has evidence of a gay gene.
  
  Science does not have any such evidence.
  
  That is a fact and you all can hate it all you want.... but that doesn't change the fact that there is no gay gene.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because the vast majority of them will tell you it wasn't a conscious choice for them anymore than it was for you.
  
  Why do you say it's abnormal? There's always been a segment of the population which was homosexual for as long as history has been recorded. It's no more abnormal than having red hair or spock ears.
  
  Is having red hair or spock ears a choice?
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The fact that because gay people were invisible 50 years ago, and now there are growing numbers of people coming out, that they think it's "spreading" like a contagious disease, and they worry that eventually everyone will choose to be gay and humanity will go extinct.
  
  I mean, that seems like an understandable fear if you don't believe scientists and are prone to paranoid fears.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't even know who he is replying to, do you, Threesome?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think perhaps Mr. Mason that you should check your facts before you start making such wild and ugly remarks about someone you know nothing about.
  My position on the debate of choice vs genetics in relation to this topic have nothing to do with my political views.
  I have not insulted you in any way. I simply asked you to consider a question.
  It is obvious to me that although you consider yourself morally and intellectually superior to everyone else on the planet that you really are quite confused about a number of things including the constant badgering in this thread about genetics and science yet you vehemently argue the existence of God without any regard to the fact that there is no scientific proof that he exists either.
  Pick a horse already! Either science has the answers to everything and negates your irrational beliefs in god, or the possibility that science may not be correct in every case. You do not get to have it both ways.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is your problem?
  
  I have no idea what you are speaking in regards to. I have not spoken to you today that I know of. Please be more specific Ohma. I have posted alot of replies on here today.
  
  And I stated in my post today... somewhere. That science does not pre-suppose the existence of a gay gene, as it does not pre-suppose the existence of God.
  
  So I don't see what your getting at.
  
  My faith is just that. My faith, it is simple. You and all others can have faith that there is a gay gene... but that does not prove it.
  
  So?... I don't see the issue.
  
  And you know something Ohma... I have been nicely answering all your questions, not rudely. And I have not asked you one question.
  
  Yet you act like that to me?... ?... ...I was thinking something about true colors.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once again {{sigh}}
  My last post was in response to the rude and uncalled for post you made to me that I quoted in my response.
  You know nothing about me and do not have the right to lump me into any category that you see fit simply because I dared to confuse you with common sense.
  When asked you could not respond to a simple question. Instead of responding, you attacked (typical). If you do not need science to tell you that you are attracted to women then why on earth would you assume that anyone else needs scientific proof to know who they are attracted to.
  
  If science has all the answers as you are trying to convince people of in this thread then explain how you justify believing in a clearly unscientific god.
  
  These really are not difficult concepts.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ohma... I have never said science has all the answers.
  
  So stop trying to twist stuff.
  
  You see Ohma. I can have my faith, and know that science is quite capable of one day unlocking all the secrets of genetics.
  
  But I also know that Science has not dis-proved god and in fact is not in the God business at all. So I don't understand what has you so confused.
  
  They and you seem to think there is scientific evidence of a gay gene.
  
  There is not.
  
  And for as you quoting the post with the issue...
  
  You mean this one
  
  TMMasonposted 23 hours agoin reply to this
  
  It comes down now more to the issue of Genetic Homosexuality, there is no scientific proof to support that assertion. We are aware that at some point there is a choice made, some just do not want to admit it.
  
  Science though, does not assume a thing to exist without evidence, that is the antithesis of science.
  
  God Considers it an abomination... and evolution is inherantly antithetical to homo-sexuality, (It would sort of render survival of the fittest usless. Why fight when they will just be born gay and there will be plenty of mates for all.)
  
  So either way you argue it it is not a normal behavior. And morally it is not acceptable to most. I cannot help it that you get all upset because I will not play the lil trans-valuation of moral values games with you.
  
  Your not going to convince me it is genetic... because it isn't.
  
  And Evolution has no place for it, either...most logical people can understand that.
  
  You can get mad all you want... I am no lil child in school.
  
  You cannot indoctrinate me.
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, evolution has plenty of room for homosexuality. Many people with poor understandings of science think that the purpose of evolution is to make sure one's own individual genes survive, but that's an oversimplification. Evolution is more concerned with the survival of populations than individuals, and there are several ways that the existence of homosexuality improves the long-term viability of populations: http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-the-existenc … -evolution
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is the post that you made to me. It's content is clearly insulting.
  
  I am not trying to indoctrinate you into anything. I am simply pointing out that you are being inconsistent.
  I do not know about a gay gene as you call it but I will tell you this, I know that I am clearly straight and all of the reasons that I know that about myself and you know that about yourself are the same reasons Gays and Lesbians also know for themselves who and what gender they are attracted to.
  I did not make a choice there was none to make. You did not make a choice because there was none to make. I could no more sleep with a women than you could sleep with a man, why? because it is who we are. Just because others are different does not mean thay have any more choice in the matter than we do.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So the propagande goes.
  
  Why don't we chalk homosexuality up to what it is, kery.
  
  People succombing to the urges of immoralism, or the need for sexual gratification.
  .
  We don't need science to answer it... as ohma said.
  
  It is just that simple.
  
  We don't need to justify it with any propaganda.
  
  And you can call it my lack of understanding about whatever you want.
  
  That'll keep it simple also.
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that's where we're different. I don't regard sexual gratification as immoral in the slightest, provided it occurs between consenting adults who take appropriate precautions against unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Why should it be?
  
  If you think sex is a dirty, sinful thing that should occur only for purposes of procreation, I'm sorry for you, but please don't inflict your medieval ideas on the rest of us.
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This ancient and harmful thinking is one of the main reasons that I totally reject religion. It is not that some people object to others for their own reasons, which is their own business, but religious people seem to be impelled to broadcast their retarded views and ancient wars onto others. The ridiculous ideas and views here are from people who are not threatened in any way by gay people, any more than men are threatened by women or vice versa. It is all a part of the rich and diverse life around us, if you don't like it then nobody is forcing you to. It is not necessary to insult gay people at every turn and post, all you are doing is pointing up your own unsubstatiated prejudices, or displaying your lack of confidence in your own gender; it is a well proven fact that the most vociferous gay-bashers have been suppressed gay people or generally unstable personalities. Most people who hate for hate's sake have a serious personality or mental issue, just look at McCarthy and his vicious and shameful witch-hunt.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have any scientific proof that fulfilling our need for sexual gratification is immoral?
  
  No you have an old book containing the opinions of long dead goat herders. What makes you think that justifies fulfilling your desire to discriminate, castigate, terrorize and destroy?
  
  I applaud the OP and all others who have spoken out on this issue, and you will continue to see postings like this one all across the web, and gay pride parades all across the country, and appeals for legal equality in our courts until people like yourself stop using an ancient book of myths as an excuse to oppress others.
  
  Homosexuality isn't immoral. Hatred is. Oppression is.
  
  Congratulations. You've allowed one of the world's millions of myths to turn you into a jackass.
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  drej2522posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow Pandoras, applause applause.
  
  I've always went with this motto...I'm only prejudice towards one type of person:
  
  People who are prejudice. I hate those mother f'ers!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said!
  These haters are usually religionists who read their fairytale of hate and the project it on to others to allow them to feel superior.
  
  The bible and quoran are both so dumbassed that they would have died out ages ago if people weren't so darn gullible!
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow...
  
  You just cannot help but to simplify things and twist them.
  
  I think the morality of attaining sexual gratification is in the way you attain it. Rape would not be a morally acceptable way of attaining release... and niether would alot of other ways.
  
  But you go ahead and act like you don't know what is said to you when it is spoken clearly.
  
  As if your twistings will fool anyone.
  
  Ohma speaks to me like I am a child and thinks if she leads me to the "right" answer with questions I will realize my lack of understanding and agree with you all. And you think you can twist a plain answer in a conversation to mean whatever you want.
  
  Thats funny. You guys have been indoctrinating children too long or something.... are you two teachers by any chance?...
  
  That would explain alot.
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  Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "God considers it an abomination..."
  A complete and utter lie passed down for generations. God had nothing to do with the sexual likes and dislikes of Man.
  
  "So either way you argue it, it is not a normal behavior"
  Wrong again...homosexuality is a normal part of nature.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This
  
  and this
  
  are not polite
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ?...
  
  Hurm?... ah?... I have no idea what you are talking about.
  
  And as far as your political views... I am sorry I maligned you with that term... "Progressive".
  
  I know. I shouldn't call poeple such a God awful ugly thing... but many are.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think someone who decided to be with the same sex after all thier life of being straight would simply do so.
  
  A choice.
  
  As for me... if I were to decide that I wanted to set aside my morals... and try homosex, I would.
  
  And in doing so I would make a couple of choices... a. to set aside my morals and... b. to try something new. What would be the big deal, it is a choice like anything else. But I wouldn't pass it of as psuedo-science genetics.
  
  Now.
  
  I do believe that a child can be exposed to homosexuality, and in that exposure, learn to become aroused by that activity.
  
  We know that certain things during puberty and the time of sexual arousal, can attach those things in the psyche of devoloping minds.
  
  Thus the theories in regards to sato-sexual killers and such. It is called behaviorism, and we have decades of studies to back it up. (probrably a few in that big library you all have there in that university at Berkley. if you haven't burnt them all.)
  
  Unlike some of the phantom studies alluded to by some on here.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it doesn't. What it comes down to is that it's none of our business, and it matters not whether it's genetic, chemical or indeed a personal choice.
  
  The whole 'choose not to act on it' line of reasoning is pointless and dumb.
  
  Sure you can choose not to act on your unchosen gayness, but there's no reason why you should.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know Pan... the conversation was as I stated it was, if you don't want to be a part of it, fine... but it is the conversation.
  
  Some on here want to state Homo-sexuality is Genetic while infering there is scientific evidence to back that blatant assumption up.
  
  It is not Genetic, it is a choice. And there is no such evidence.
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  Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you TM homosexuality is definately a choice. No genetics involved. I do think some people are predisposed to certain lifestyles, but it is more about nurture rather than nature.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All the christian scientists around here...
  
  Guess we should call the real experts and tell them to stop looking, Diane and Mason have already figured everything out and know all the definate answers about it.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, Diane and Mason just do not spout assertions about genetics, that are unfounded.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well with TM you seem to have it all sewn up - I guess you must be gay to have such in depth knowledge and such definate answers,
  
  the only others who display such blatant ignorance are those weirdo christians who think some selected bits cut out from a few ancient documents and woven together in a clearly fictional story tell everyone some 'truth'. Or the Pope, of course, who sanctioned by denial the constant abuse of children by his priests and bishops, but still speaks out against gays. But then he was an enthusiastic member of the Hitler Youth so I guess that is all right then.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We are not discussing religion AP...
  
  We are discussing homo-sexuality being genetic.
  
  There is no proof of that assertion, and science does not assume the existence of things without said proof, or should we just assume the existence of all those gods you hate so much?
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have all the time in the world for gods, I am even thinking of having one installed in my house by a Dao priest. I like the idea of having some presence for the unknown that I can talk to and light incence sticks to.
  
  About the religion - what normal person would even ask the question or bother to castigate gay people except religious people. You saying you are not religious ?
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, totally godless people can also be endowed with a twisted morality, or can veiw a moral code totally outside the confines of a religious framework. If you think that only religious people are upset, you haven't been paying attention. Besides, a "phobia" is described as an unreasoning fear of something, so to even say that they are wrong is missing the point, Agoraphobes, aracniphobes, and all the others CAN'T help it!! So wrong or right, they are probably here to stay, until all the gay people brainwash all the non-gay people (Who incidently, are not all Homophobes)
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Better to cut off the offending member rather than to risk hellfire.
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
Well done, Ohma, and with grace. Namaste.
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wademcmasterposted 14 years ago
I think its typical, racism, sexism, its all stupid. Treating a race differently despite what good deeds they'vwe done or who've they've helped. Its actions that makes the difference of a good or bad person.
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Rainbowloveposted 14 years ago
One last statement to generalize this (it's not meant to any one person I am just adding on to my main argument).
The LGBT community would not have to take up their own actions in trying to defend ourselves, for instance my five reasons above, if their was no hatred being passed around their would be no subject to talk about. The main point of this entire thread is that people are taking part in other peoples lives and we simply don't just WANT to flaunt our shit but to get the point across to the people who think its wrong we'll do what is needed. It might not be in the best way but it's the only way to do it WITHOUT resulting to violence or strong hateful words. I don't really want to start an argument up over this but I am simply adding on to what I said before.
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Diane Insideposted 14 years ago
So if being gay in genetic, does that mean that you are all genetically abnormal.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, Diane, what a sweet christian comment.
  
  Well, at any rate, why would you even ask, when in the post just above this one you adamantly state that it's all a personal choice and "no genetics involved"?
  
  So you're not sure? God hasn't revealed it to you?
  
  Can we call the scientists back in now?
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In relation to heteros, yes. The first ape that came down from the grapevines and stood upright was a genetic anomaly, and eventually, that anomaly became the norm. It's called evolution. Which, according to Cag, makes me an oxymoron. A believer who embraces evolution. This is not to say that ALL of it is genetic. It CAN also be a choice, and necessity can also induce genetic mutation.
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
Ok, so here's food for thought:
If, as someone suggested (I think it is on page 3 of this thread), you CHOOSE to only have sex with YOURSELF
does that make you homosexual?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey MightyMom, no offense intended, I responded to that post and said that sex requires two people.
  
  There is no sexual intercourse or sexual anything else, without a secondary party. It takes two to tango.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I heard it makes you BLIND. Not exactly celibacy, but I heard the big G doesn't like masterbaters either. It's about wasting "seed" so this verboten territory is really about the Prime Directive "MULTIPLY"
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
You know (I think) I'm just being a smart ass
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know, that's why I said no offense intended.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Besides, it's physically impossible, with regards to the definition of sex in and of itself.

Masturbation isn't having sex with oneself. It is giving oneself a release of sexual anxiety.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like you've GOT A GRIP on this subject, now that the discussion has turned to beatin' it. HA
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your post insinuates "ignorance" by nature. Maybe you should get away from learning about Nature, and learn about Human Nature instead. It might be helpful.
  
  Just a thought.
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afro's mistakeposted 14 years ago
now I dont know about embracing what one thinks is his or hers sexuality you are right when you say that no where in the bible is it called the unforgiveable sin.
I'd like you to read my Hub entitled "will all gays go to hell" and tell me what you think.
I personally think you might like it
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Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years ago
*walks around and has a look ,first to the left, then to the right......*

Noone brought beer?????? *cries......*
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  .......here's one for you...from Canada....take off, eh?
  
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
Varying levels of testosterone in the womb. I'd have to look it up, it was years ago, but seemed like a very sound theory to me. This gives you your 1 to 10 scale, and does also explain the in betweens, bisexuality and those straight people who don't mind some form of bisexuality, homosexuals who are able to suppress it, homosexuals who can pretend they're straight for some period of time as they try to make it in a straight world, or those who aren't sure, and those among us straight who are totally sickened personally by partaking in such activity.

It also would mean genetics wouldn't be involved. Just a normal function of pregnancy that delivers a particular substance to the child and creates a broad range of diverse individuals.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe the leading theory is around epigenetics, since there are many identical twins in which one twin is straight and the other gay (and they have identical genetics and womb environment).
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7aUlWjPZVw
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
People don't just wake up one morning and say to themselves "I think I'll be gay today". As far as I know, they discover that they are attracted to those of the same sex. That is not a choice.

No one in their right mind would "choose" to be gay with the way they are treated and hated by many.

Funny how some use science for supposed proof when it suits them and at other times such as evolution say it's all bunk. No one knows exactly why people are gay. No one can say it is this way or it is that way.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "No one in their right mind would "choose" to be gay with the way they are treated and hated by many."
  
  With that logic, then no one chooses to be an addict, or a rapist, or a murderer... That logic doesn't cut it UW. Many people choose to do things that will result in them being shunned or treated badly by others and society in general.
  
  And liv... the twins thing.. them having identical genes and one being gay and the other straight... seems to me to support the choice argument. One of the two chooses to be gay... the other is as straight as the day he or she was born.
  
  Again... there is no evidence of a gay gene.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you watch the video?
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you choose to be straight? You made a conscious decision that you were going to be attracted to girls?
  
  That's what I don't understand about people who claim it's a choice. As a mostly straight woman, there was NOTHING conscious about my attraction to guys - it was more like a switch flicked on in my eyes when I was about 12 and all the sudden I was looking at the opposite sex with entirely new eyes. Lustful eyes.
  
  I have to wonder how many of these "being gay is a choice" people DID have to make a conscious decision to be attracted to the opposite sex, and if they realize what that suggests about them!
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Men like this usually tell you that they are so morally right that they resist the temptation to engage in homosexual activity...like they resist the temptation to get an abortion, too.
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See, if they're tempted at all, then by definition they're not straight, they're bi or gay. Awfully sad to hate themselves so much that they feel the need to inflict it on the rest of the world too.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes if you feel like you don't have much going for you, you have to invent new standards of superiority, even if they're absolutely ludicrous. And, I agree, so much misery stems from simple insecurity and self-hatred.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, all people who do not embrace homosexuality are homophobics who are closet gays... who are self hating.
  
  Nice cover all excuse liv... but it just doesn't cut it.
  
  lol I am a closet gay who hates myself because I won't agree homo-sexuality is genetic.
  
  Okay.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, you are a Six who made a Choice.
  
  It all fits.
  
  You don't have much of a grasp of evolution, do you? I guess you probably don't like science very much anyway..
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was naturally attracted to the opposite sex.
  
  As Nature intended it to be.
  
  Look around you... contrary to the popular leftist retorict... nature intends for you to be with the opposite sex, so as to "pro-create".
  
  It is a biological imperative you know.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So it's not a choice, then?
  
  Nature clearly intends for a vast majority of all animals to be attracted to the opposite sex. But Nature clearly also intends for a minority to be attracted to the same sex.
  
  Because we do not yet understand "why" or "by what mechanism" does not mean that it's not a fact.
  
  Nature clearly understands that the perpetuation of a species does not require 100% to procreate.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your assumption of nature wanting a few to be gay is only that, an assumption.
  
  You don't have to justify your choice to me liv... I believe all have the right to live as they want.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well no, there is research that suggests it could be a means of population control for some animals - maybe even for us. So it's a bit more than an assumption. Not that this scientific nonsense matters to you, of course.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah.. right...umhum...
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In that case, since you claim your own (hetero)sexuality was not a choice, why do you assume that homosexuality would be any different? Especially since 95% of homosexuals you will ever meet will tell you that that their sexuality was not a choice, any more than yours was.
  
  Is it because you think it's unnatural? Well, somebody forgot to tell the animal kingdom that. Homosexual behavior has been observed in more than 1500 animal species, from flatworms to chimpanzees. There have been many human societies that regarded it as normal and natural as well. In fact, anthropologists have found human societies with up to six separate gender identities for different combinations of biological sex and sexuality. Why does your personal opinion matter more than that of whole societies?
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, we were all brainwashed by those perverted heteros
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Last word for me, cause I stopped taking this forum seriously. You'd think that with highjacking the word "gay" that they would be much happier.
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canadawest99posted 14 years ago
What 2 consenting adults to behind closed doors, straight or gay, it is their business, but don't push it in my face. Same goes for religion. Its a personal thing, keep it that way.

Where people go wrong is they want to flaunt it and convert people to it and that is simply wrong. if I am interested enough, i will educate myself and I don't need anyone coming around to do it for me.

I will also point out, that while there is no evidence of a gay gene, there is plenty of evidence of male and female hormones being skewed which can lead to one being straight or gay. A fetus is androgynous until about the 3rd trimester and those 2 little hormones, testosterone and estrogen, are what make our genders and if they are even slightly out of balance then things aren't quite right. Sometimes the person asks science to intervene and set things right, other times people feel like that are ok and want to continue on. That's fine, its a personal choice on whatever makes you feel right.

Lastly, if you are christian or religious fundamentalist who wants to quote the bible and pass judgment on anyone for their lifestyle, remember, according to you, god made everything and god is infallible, therefore, it follows from that that all his creations must be so too. A perfect being cannot create imperfect creations, right.

Or maybe you are ready to believe that we are just a batch of random chemicals that organized themselves in the primordial goo 4 billion years ago? Congrats, you just made your first step to true enlightenment.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even though I have never quoted any scripture on here and am not in the habit of it in life either... I will adress this statement. And i am not meaning to be rude or mean, just clear.
  
  "Lastly, if you are christian or religious fundamentalist who wants to quote the bible and pass judgment on anyone for their lifestyle, remember, according to you, god made everything and god is infallible, therefore, it follows from that that all his creations must be so too. A perfect being cannot create imperfect creations, right."
  
  That shows a total lack of understanding about why we are here and the physical world from a Christian perspective. The entire Bible is spent expounding upon the imperfection of this world and the phsical realm in whole.
  
  There is not one word in the Bible which speaks to this world being perfect in any way.
  
  But I do get your point... and I will say that, "judgment", is prohibited under the Christian religion.
  
  But this conversation has been more about the teaching of Homosexual behavior in schools, and what age is right or even if it is the schools right to do it, and about the "gay gene", alot of the discussion is about the supposed genetic aspect, and psuedo-scientific evidence trying to support it.
  
  Niether of which has to do with judgmnet on my behalf or anyone elses who simply are stating an opinion on those subjects.
  
  People can do what they want... they just don't have a right to push it into the schools and propagate it. And the fact that there is no science to support or prove the existence of a gay gene is in no way a judgment... it is a fact.
  
  And of course we all know this was a bait thread... look at the title... speaks volumes about the bias and agenda within its intent.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sigh.
  
  You are wrong. But you'll never understand that.
  
  Schools teach reality. Homosexuality is reality. It is legal and in some enlightened states, homosexuals can even marry.
  
  But you don't want children to know reality. I bet you want them to know all about your Make Believe Buddy, don't you? But not reality.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
Ah you leftists are so full of assumptions.

I don't believe it is up to the schools to teach any child the ins and outs of homosexual behavior. As most Americans do not.

And I think the children will learn to accept homo-sexuals as being there in, "reality", just fine on thier own.

.That is just a plain fact.

And no, religion doesn't belong in the classroom either.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
Please show me where I spoke to you as a child.
I sincerely have no clue what you are referring to. Unless it is of course that you feel childish by foolishly clinging to your conflicting statements and demanding that they are both accurate, in which case I would have to say that is something you are doing to yourself.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no confliction, ohma.
  
  I can have faith in God, and know that there is, no scientific evidence of a gay gene.
  
  My question to you was; Are you a teacher? Of any stripe.
  
  I answered all yours.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not a teacher per say. I do however train the associates That I supervise at my job.
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
There is also no scientific evidence that there is not a gay gene...

Geneticists are make new discoveries every day..
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Science does not operate on the assumption something exists, UW.
  
  We covered that earlier...
  
  TMMasonposted 25 hours agoin reply to this
  
  It comes down now more to the issue of Genetic Homosexuality, there is no scientific proof to support that assertion. We are aware that at some point there is a choice made, some just do not want to admit it.
  
  Science though, does not assume a thing to exist without evidence, that is the antithesis of science.
  
  If you read from wayyyyyy back there ^... you should be caught up.
  
  Also... you can assume... or have "faith" there is a gay gene all you want... still doesn't prove it.
  
  As faith in God does not prove the existence of that God.
  
  See how that works.
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Everything is not known... Not even you know everything...

Regardless if there is a gay gene or not people are gay...and they do not choose to be.

And who is talking to whom like they are a child now?
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
Does it even matter WHY gays are gay?
They ARE and that's that.
And they deserve to be who they are.

"Medieval views" is exactly right.

One could apply the same "argument" to handedness. As in, for a long,long time left-handed people were perceived as evil (see definition of "sinister"). For years people who would naturally employ their left hand to write, swing a golf club, etc., were physically forced to use their right hands because the moral majority (HA) could not tolerate anyone being different.

So tell me. Is being left-handed a choice, too?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say it mattered.
  
  That is all you guys... I love the way you al l try to twiast things one after another.
  
  The propaganda machine spouted its propaganda... and it got corrected.
  
  Someone on here, many actually, attempted to pawn off psuedo science as fact and that is where the problem is. You can be whatever you want, but don't try to pass off junk theories as fact to support your agenda.
  
  Good nite... you all are getting repetative and boring.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
Defending a persons right to express who they are is not an attempt to pawn pseudo science or anything else, and it certainly is not propaganda. I honestly do not understand you.
Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that every person in the world has the same rights as you expect to be given? You do not take kindly to anyone here whose views differ from your own, I can only imagine just how frightful your response would be to a real live person actually threatening to take away your rights.
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
What exactly do you think you're doing, Elpaso -- trying to palm off your own experience as scientific proof?
Don't be surprised when the next question you get asked is whether you are a scientist. Otherwise, your observations (about yourself and your life) are clearly FALSE!

You know full well you would not have "chosen to become" gay if you hadn't been indoctrinated at a young age. Stop twisting things, will ya? Geez
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  Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Calm down!
  Now try to make sense.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm 100% sure MM's comment was tongue-in-cheek. (Maybe yours was too?)
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  Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow...that one went right over my head! Opps!
  Sorry MM!
  Guess no one will be asking me if I'm a Scientist.
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