I'm kind of curious. If you are a woman and you add value to a forum thread by your knowledge and expertise, do you find that you often go unresponded to, unless you make a flirtatious response to the forum's male participants?
I interact more with women than the men. More often than not, the men cannot see past themselves, even more so than women.
Most men are all about ego than anything else.
Most women are all about emotion than anything else.
However, I respond more to women, simply because they are more refined.
I'm rather curious as to how you would arrive at such a conclusion myself.
I don't really think about flirting on HP forums. I'd rather do it in person.
As far as responses, hmm, I really don't even think about it in that light. I know I had a forum thread about tennis because I love tennis, and one guy responded. I was kind of surprised that there weren't more tennis fans responding, but it's a holiday weekend, so there are better things to do than spend time on a forum.
I guess it really depends on why people spend time in the forums.
Couldn't agree more...but how do you feel when your point is deflected by flirtation, or by, as Cags offered up earlier, male ego?
In all sincerity, I can say that I've never encountered that problem on the forums here. Most of the men are quite willing to interact with me if I ask questions or seek input from them, without my having to flirt.
People in general tend to react to us like we approach them, so I've found that most of the men are solicitous and respectful when I come into the forums.
With this forum post you made two minor mistakes. A person reading it on the forum page is lead to believe you want input from both males and females.
Men do get flirted with also, and sometimes they are not the instigators but in little ways let it be known they don't object.
I have often heard it said that there is a time and place for everything. At the right time flirting in hub pages might be acceptable depending on the circumstances. People from birth to death need to know at times, especially when their world comes crashing down, that someone cares. Flirting during these times is a way for someone to know, they are cared about enough to be of value. This works for both men and women.
I think for most writers here if you ask an honest question you will be answered. Most authors don't look at who asked, they are replying to the question. There may be some exceptions to this by jerks but I have not seen it.
Motown2Chitown you are so open and honest I can't see anyone flirting with you. I look forward to seeing your smiling face and do know a little about what you have shared of your life.
It is so interesting that this question, as explained in my op, is directed more to women than to men. Glad you both stepped up here with your thoughts!
I don't believe there is much flirting in the forums. People are intense about the topic. The forums are fun and a great learning experience most of the time.
Untrue. I flirt with as many ladies who will allow me to do so.
The question one might ask me is "why"?
And my answer would be- to make them smile. That's all that matters.
But does your good intention to make them smile derail the point? And thereby put the focus on you and not on what the point was or might have been?
You said, "Most men are all about ego than anything else."
I would hope not.
I haven't experience it and pleas trust me, I've been at this a long time.
Yes, I said that, but I can see past mine and don't need my ego stroked by anyone. It makes me feel good to know that I put a smile on their face. That's all.
Try this one out, brakel2...
This is not to say that women don't flirt, too.
I agree. I . . .really try not to flirt on Hubpages, as I'm pretty serious about either one of two things all the time here: 1. my writing, or 2. trying to make a buck with it.
There are times when there is not a response, but not to often.
And see Sally's Trove, your post brought out one of HP's most beautiful women...AEvans.
@AEvan- always a pleasure to see you.
Oh, how sweet, and I mean that sincerely...but isn't this a flirtation that derails a train of thought?
Not actually, because I've told her plenty of times before. I was only pointing out that AEvans posted to your thread.
I don't think there's anything wrong with friendly flirting....
as long as it's not inappropiate....which cagsil is not
flirting is part of being friendly
Welcome back and yes this did bring me into the forum,lololo! Always a joy to see you too!
This is hilarious...there are two women who chimed in with their thoughts, thoughts which were not flirtatious in any way, and the thread has gone to...?
I would rather the woman enjoy the conversation on some level, even if they disagree with my point on the topic.
Example: *sigh* a quote by you.
Apparently, you were laughing about my initial post, which means you were smiling and now we're addressing your post? are we not?
I always find you engaging, Cags, have from the very start of knowing you.
But there's a point where no one wants to be patronized (not sayin', exactly, that you do that). But I do have to wonder if you have the same thought about wanting a man to enjoy a conversation on some level, even if he disagrees with your point on the topic. If so, how would that play out?
I would prefer a man to enjoy the conversation and many who disagree with me, have told me they enjoy the conversation. Just not too many.
With men though, it's about "intellectual" honesty, which what I try to convey, regardless of whether or not, we agree or disagree.
I always bring honesty to the table.
So, is there no intellectual honesty with which men and women can engage?
I sure there is, but my experience has shown that women lead with emotion more than they do with rationale.
cags! go wash your mouth with soap! you just uttered the dirtiest statement (and, no, I'm not being, god forbid, emotional!) you just implyed that women are not rational! which, after all your claims about how you understand and love women and respect them, makes me want to be mean to you! YES! mean! women can be just as rational as men! we just don't happen to think being rational is the most IMPORTANT thing in the world. I hope you will see the error of your ways and change. If you think the men of hubpages (what does that remind you of?) are more rational than the women of hubpages, well, just how can you be thinking that when you recall some of the incredibly irrational bs that men have come up with here! for shame on you cagsil!
Hey Mega, for the most part they are not.
And, that would be any different than any other time you talk to me? How exactly?
I didn't say that men were rational. I said women lead with emotion. I didn't expect you and this post to be anything different. And, it's sad that you cannot see that this post is pure emotion than it is rational.
Rationality is emotion free. You can think whatever you like, but that is truth. Once you step away from the emotional feelings and THINK, then it becomes rational. Got it?
Go learn more about yourself, before you rant about me. Damn women, this whole post is nothing but emotion.
Mega1, you need to seriously get a grip. Did you think I was talking "specifically" about just the people on HP?
Shame on YOU. You only proved I was right. Thank you.
so, which is it? you like and understand women? or
you think they're emotional and seldom rational and you just like to look at pretty women and fantasize?
your opinions on women are so conflicting!
All three. Some are pure emotion, some are seldom rational when they put aside their emotions and think. And, my collection of Playboy(20 years worth) would say that I like to look at pretty women. But, as far as fantasizing about them? From time to time, all men do and there is no harm in that.
basically, I'm saying that your generalizations just don't hold up - of course, these are your opinions, but I definitely feel you are conflicted about who women are, what they're capable of, and how they speak and do things - generally speaking. I will never agree with your view of women, found that out from my first days here, but that's ok. Just needed to get it off my chest! You go ahead and try to have a nice day, ok?
Hello AEvans, nice to see you here... or anywhere for that matter.
Just a thought. I wonder what the ratio of men to women hubbers?
I know I have more female followers than male.
You should take a consensus, could be interesting. I have more men then women who follow me.
Maybe admin could inform us? Interesting that you have more male followers. I wonder if it varies with the subjects we write about?
I wonder to what degree HP keeps statistics about Hubbers. I don't recall if I ever coughed up there that I am male or female.
I guess it was a bit naive of me to suggest it. I am me here and everywhere else, and made the silly assumption that others are as well.
Hang on.... when we signed up didn't we have to give our real details?
Hubpages should have the sign up names at least, and the sex of the hubber.
I really don't know what data they captured...I can't recall fessing up to being one sex or another, and I can't find anything in my current HP profile that says what gender I am. If I think about that long enough, I'll love HP much more than FaceBook. In whatever way HP might be getting demographic info from me, at least it's not by gender.
I've heard that happens sometimes, usually with very young children - just forgetting whether you are boy or girl, man or woman, male, female, or other - and I, myself, have been confused sometimes when it was late and a loud noise woke me from a deep dream of being a gay man, then I was somewhat relieved to find I was not a gay man, but was female, such as it is. So don't feel bad!
Hey you raise a good point.
If I come back ,Im coming back as a man ,because men tend to earn more money my adsense would then be jump from 10c to $1..
I have more female than male followers, but with a handle like WeddingPlanner, what would you expect? Just the words would make most men run in terror!
That should have been obvious to me. DIYWEDDINGPLANNER is pretty specific!
I have a lot of car and mechanical hubs, Maybe I should have called my profile Pistonbroke.
It would have been descriptive and to the point!
Yep! Providing I can avoid being pist and broke!
Well, there is that!
I could have used a good car guy yesterday when the nice people at Firestone tried to sell me an entire set of tires instead of just the one that was losing air.
If we want to talk about how women are treated anyplace, let's talk about how they are treated in auto shops!
Yep! I know about the way women are treated at auto shops and motorcycle shops too.
Gaining them as customers was as simple as not talking down to them, and explaining things in a straight forward fashion.
Women thought they had found car or motorcycle nirvana when they found my shops!
I won't comment on that or I'll get accused of flirting in a serious thread!
. . . and then there is my ex-wife who telephoned me to tell me that she had broken down on the motorway and I was to come get her. I asked her what had happened, she said that the car would not speed up then it made a little knocking noise and just stopped.
Driving up behind the car there was a black oil stripe about 200 yards long with bits of crankcase, then chunks of engine, followed by piston heads and most of the remainder of the engine, followed by the car in a pool of still steaming oil and water !
a little knocking noise !
Funny stuff! What a coincidence I should read this now.
I just came back from seeing a car with a "little knock" that if revved one more time is gonna spray it's guts all over the road like your ex wife's car did!
I wonder what a big knock would sound like?
Maybe a BIG knocking noise would sound like hubbys head rolling off his shoulders ,because he failed to maintain the car properly
(Standing up for the ladies)
As much as I want to agree with you, WK, and as appealing as it sounds for a man to take care of my car (and me!), if I drive it, I take care of it.
Of course men are doing most of the mechanical work and servicing in auto shops too.
There are only a small percentage of female mechanics.
Can't use mine earnest its taken. LOL
I follow based on what interests me. Nothing else matters in this decision. I answer questions based on can anything I say make a difference and that solely.
I believe this can be done and still have fun which to me is part of what the forums are about. All work and no play makes wheelin a dull boy.
Could be, but how many wish to read about Ovarian Cysts? lololo Then again there are quite a few who may find interest in it. .
How do we know whether an entity is a man or a woman on HP, or anywhere else on the Net for that matter?
With that said, I believe (have a sense that) more women follow me than men.
Cags, are you a woman? AEvans, are you a man? I wouldn't know, as I don't know either of you personally. I know Robie2, Trish, Marisuewrites, Sabu, and others away from this venue of HP. But if I didn't know that, how would I know who's a man and who's a woman?
Just a thought.
I consider this is a pretty neutral place to put your work. You can create an avatar that's gender-unspecific. I did that at first: no one knew whether I was a man or woman. So there was no bias in the response. I let it be known that I'm a woman. There still doesn't appear to be any bias on that account in the responses I get.
yes, well, I get the same number responses from men as from women, and men respond usually without a hint of flirtation - maybe that's because most of the men here know that I'm not a buxom, vivacious young witchy woman with a pet crow - but instead I am a crusty old (82) crone with dentures, a walker, and an oxygen tube in my nose. So far, none of the hubbers, male or female, have let that get in their way and when I act out one of my sexual fantasies here, they are always very civil and try to act as unshocked as can be. Is that what you wanted to know?
Well I am a simple man and only go by the avatar.
Anyone without a photo of themselves are assumed to be non human.
I was gonna use an avatar from a famous movie star, but what the hell would he know about adjusting the crown wheel and pinion clearance on a differential?
Anyway, posting my rough head on here is no big deal.
Some poor individuals have to see me in the flesh, so you guys get off easy
Love, love, what you had to say.
I don't get those flirtatious responses either, and I think that's because men believe I am a trunk in an attic (very much different from your avatar).
Is that what I want to know, you ask.
I don't flirt or invite flirtation. But, and I'm almost uncomfortable saying this, maybe that's what some want and thus an "intellectual" conversation gets derailed.
What do you think?
I try not to have intellectual anythings, definitely not conversations. I keep it lighter than light - pretty much as airy as it gets. That's because the few times I tryed to respond with a bit of intellectual wit I've gotten all the facts wrong and was called on it!! So I learned my lesson.
And if you don't get any flirting from the (supposededly) guys it may have to do with your feminine kind of craft-oriented avatar with a "girls in the attic" kind of air to it - that and cats turn guys off, I've heard. They could care less about our gorgeous hand-crocheted bedspread and the vintage dress we have framed on our wall. They seem to get all turned on, however, when certain hubbers talk about doing it on an airplane or some such nonsense. Between the religiosity, the political creepiness, and the incredible lightness of being some of us subscribe to, HP forums are not a source for any substance. I'm terribly sorry if that disappoints you, it actually makes me happy! but I'm easy!!
Reading further through the thread, I would say that yes, in some cases, I think that IS what some people want. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that, but in some cases, you're right, it can derail the thread.
I try not to engage in it, although I'll admit that on occasion a thread has gone so far to the side already that I'll engage in a bit of casual banter with another poster just to be friendly.
I've never been aware of flirting on these forums at all. I do notice some Hubbers (male AND female) who regard the forums as a place for chat rather than real debate, and will derail a thread with banter - which can be flirtatious, but can also just be light-hearted or silly. I don't think that happens because women feel they have to be flirtatious, I think it's simply what those people think forums are for.
Well hell, I just looked at my stream - like ten minutes ago in Q and A I called someone "Pretty Lady," . . .so whatever.
I am female and have no trouble getting a response whenever I post a new topic. I have never had to flirt to get the attention of anyone on forums.
They are just envious of us men, Earnest! Do you blame them?
Well, maybe of Earnest, Randy. But you...nah!
I just don't understand women these days. It's gotten to where they think they're just as good as the men!
Let me guess Randy... the wife is outta town?
Even tiger snakes ain't that brave!
Great! You still have time to delete the post!
She can't read anyway, Earnest. She was educated in South Carolina!
I'm going to let that go, reminding myself that the snake was the root of all evil and the downfall of women in general. Hey, because of you, women (and men!) wear clothes. See how badly you screwed up!
that's true - but then if we didn't wear clothes what would we do with our Diors, Chanels, Armanis, Versaces and those french shoes, and prom dresses. It's all good!
I always figured if god wanted folks to run around naked, they would have been born with no clothes on.
And snakes do not eat apples!
I just think it depends on which forums you're talking about exactly, as I've seen quite a few religious, political and social issues forums where the topic never goes astray with flirtation. Then again, I usually only read my own that I open up in those categories, so I could be wrong on that. However, this is just from my own observations.
That's a cool insight, Stevennix2001. I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the discussions about religious, political, and social issues becoming so passionate that there's little room for lightness. I've ventured out into a forum or two in those areas to make a point, but have NEVER been addressed. That makes me think that there's an engine of passion surrounding those issues, propelled by mostly the same people, that just forges on, under its own steam, and obliterates anything different in its path. Something different would definitely be flirtation.
Thanks Sally, and you bring up some valid points here as well about this. I think you might be onto something there with your last statement. As I think most people tend to get so passionate about those particular subjects, it's almost as if they feel it defines them individually, so they feel the need to defend their point of views no matter what. Leaving very little room for the topic to go astray.
Plus, I seem to recall several atheists stating once in a religious forum, they felt it was their moral obligation to spread their views as much as possible to people. This tends to make me think that maybe the reason why politics and religious forums don't often get away from the topic is because people feel it's somehow their moral obligation to spread their views onto others; feeling the other side could corrupt our society if left unchallenged. Of course, I could be wrong on that, but I'm merely stating an opinion based on what I've seen in forums in the past here.
What is the forum for?
It's an individual perspective and left up to that specific individual and how they want to use it.
I agree wholeheartedly, Cags. Each individual comes to not just the forums, but to HubPages as well for their own reasons. If determinations are to be made about whether those reasons are acceptable or not, I believe they should be made by the staff. Sure, occasionally threads get derailed, but how often does that lead to other, and, in some cases more fruitful conversations than the OP may have intended?
I'm late getting into the social aspect of the net, a social aspect which is different from social venues in other places, namely, where people appear as physical bodies and engage with each other. In those venues, people can modify and enhance their communication with the addition of body language and other sources of cues to enhance one person getting a message across to another.
You are right, Cags, a forum can be a place with no boundaries imposed by rules (disregarding the occasional moderation imposed by the forum host, like, no direct slams or obscene language or all those other things).
So, if a forum is a place of "...individual perspective and left up to that specific individual and how they want to use it...", then there's no grounding of how to behave in a forum, a place of social engagement, where old rules of respectful attention bite the dust.
I guess that's the new age...anything for "me".
Actually, there are rules that apply. Those rules are based on character, which shows behavior and understanding of one's own life.
The problem with "respect" is it is subjective to the individual and has many other factors involved. Some people expect a level of respect to be granted and some people expect an extremely high level of respect must be granted at all times, and not at just specific times.
However, HP does have rules for the forum, which apparently obvious, only a handful of people actually read.
I don't necessarily feel that enjoying the social aspect of internet forums means that a person is either selfish or likely to throw all social conventions to the wind. For example, at a cocktail party where discussions begin easily, it's quite natural for a conversation topic to be derailed by two members of the party, who then excuse themselves to continue the new conversation that has begun, leaving the others in the group to close the gap and go on with their discussion.
The difference with internet forums is that there isn't really a way for the individuals who have begun a new conversation (which flowed from the original topic) to really excuse themselves without beginning a new thread.
Often, I think people find it easier just to talk in the thread where they originally posted. I don't personally find it rude. It just means that others in the thread need to ignore the conversation.
Sure there is....post to another thread and not come back to the one they were posting in to begin with.
I like your thoughts about this. So, if two people are in a physical setting among a group of people, but they find they want to engage one-on-one, they do manage to find a way to excuse themselves from the group, removing themselves to another "room" to carry on their personal agenda. But online, that's a stretch.
That's where I don't quite agree...there are plenty of opportunities for folks to IM with each other, away from the forum (i.e., to go to another room).
I think folks persist in derailing threads, through bantering or flirtation, as a matter of territorial prerogative. The territory being the thread, the prerogative being the false belief that it's OK to dominate, or piss on (in the vernacular).
yep, that's what happens. been guilty of that myself! haha - much as I hate to admit it. I know that I get bad sometimes, sorry. Also, I think that it is true that when I am flirty, that's what I get - but unfortunately, often when I am trying to be serious I don't get any response. Most often, as illustrated earlier between Cagsil and me - if I approach someone directly either seriously or not, I will get a response. But very often when I've spent a lot of time formulating a serious response to a serious question, it just goes ignored. Mostly, I don't care about that, because I did speak up, and that's all I wanted to do really. I am not usually here for responses - usually.
mega1, that's exactly it. Do you think some fractious guy persona ever apologizes for being "bad sometimes" with a "sorry" appended? Never happens, well hardly ever. Yet some girl persona will do that, to the end of inviting being ignored when it comes to expressing beliefs, thoughts, and expertise.
Never apologize or make excuses for what you think.
I'm here with you about this: mostly, I don't care about being relegated to the back burner of a conversation. I know what I think, and if they don't get it, or don't want to engage about why they don't, then phooey on them.
yeh, phooey on them! believe it or not, I am having a lot of fun today! with exclamation points and baiting Cagsil to the point of ridiculousness. Do you know, that if I just respond each time certain people say something, they really get their panties in a twist and I know its evil, but some days, that's all the fun I have! well, that and watermelon!
For some participants, you're right. But there are those who don't engage in social media outside of HP, which doesn't offer any sort of IM availability inside the site.
As to your second point, I agree completely - there are those who make every effort to dominate any thread they enter. That can certainly be frustrating. The pissing can be downright infuriating.
I'll admit that when intense threads begin to get heated enough that insults and pissing are likely to begin, I'll often begin a lighthearted banter that I hope will defuse the situation. It's not necessarily intended to derail the thread, although it occasionally does.
Yes, I am guilty of going off-topic in some forums and also of bantering with some Hubbers on occasion. I'm sorry if it offends some here, but it is merely my nature to enjoy conversing with others who do not take everything so seriously.
Feel free to report me if I go too far. Just don't make me wear that dunce hat again!
Aww your not so bad-for a guy
p.s Wear does a snake wear a hat?
(Never mind dont anwer that)
@ mega1 and Cagsil...
Yesterday, I thought the two of you were bantering, with liberal lacings of sarcasm, and that the exchange between the two of you was based on some kind of inside snarky humor because you both know each other.
So, without the opportunity to sit down to coffee or cocktails face-to-face with either or both of you, I don't get the shift in tone between you.
Of course, maybe there wasn't any shift...I could just be hallucinating.
Not really. No humor or sarcasm on my part.
It isn't difficult to understand when "agree to disagree" has been reached. It can be recognized.
Actually isn't a shift of anything. We both voiced ourselves and there isn't a need to continue along those same lines.
oh, Cagsil and I have agreed to disagree on most everything, but especially on his view of women, which, in my opinion is so convoluted it isn't even funny. I often get irritated that he makes definitive statements without indicating that it is his opinion, only. In other words, "women do this" "women do that" which is first of all a generalization and an unbelievably demeaning one, but also it comes from the same guy who made a hub called "Women of HubPages" out of his proclaimed love of women here especially and how smart and beautiful they are! Then he says we're emotional and irrational - so wow, I just want him to acknowledge someday that he is conflicted about how he feels about women. Also, we get sarcastic and rude with each other because we have been responding to each other here for months and know that it doesn't really mean much.
I feel the same way about anyone who makes declarative statements as if they were fact, when they are only the speaker's opinions and not based on anything real, just their take on the subject. Its very irritating and misleading to do that! Cags often does that, in an arrogant way, as though he really believes he is a world authority on these subjects! but he's not the only arrogant one here. I guess it keeps the conversation flowing - but I could do without all the arrogance and posturing! Oh, and also, how about people who won't directly answer a question, when it is uncomfortable for them. They just talk and talk around it, never answering! They quote your question and respond as if they were answering but when you try to figure out exactly what they're saying it is impossible. Then finish up with something that is supposed to diffuse their comments like : "just a thought" or "you TRY to have a nice day" - often making it seem like you are the one who is over-emotional and angry, but when you read their words they are very emotional responses! "just a thought!" and also
They are, which is what you seem to be missing.
It's not a conflict, which you apparent seem to think there is. Emotion is void of rationale. What part do you not understand?
I wasn't being sarcastic. You were just pure emotion, like I said.
Actually, you've already prove yourself wrong, when you responded to my post.
Ironically you would make such a statement, especially when I don't make such a claim. Goes to show your perception of me as an individual is skewed by you yourself. But, good luck going forward.
The fact that you see what I say coming from arrogance is a perfect example of your skewed view.
Then, change your view and how you see others, then you would have a problem.
Now you resort to mocking me without actually mentioning my name. Must be nice to be you. You must really make yourself proud. And, yes I can see you attempting to turn it around and I wouldn't be surprised if you did. You will however only prove my original point.
As for my statement of telling you to have a good, was courtesy, considering it is how you ended your post to me.
Well Mega I can't say that I haven't had some of the same observations myself about not only Cagsil, but hubpages in general. However, I think it's worth noting that whenever you use "!", it's basically the same thing as if you were typing in all caps online. Which basically tells the reader that you're yelling, so they might think you're being emotional even though you're not trying to be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you meant to come across that way but from my own experience from talking to people online in general, you can't type in all caps and/or use "!" if you don't want people to think your yelling. Otherwise, most of the will automatically assume you are, as it's fairly obvious to misinterpret things online when you can't read a person's face or body language.
I was yelling !!!!! but I was not being emotional!!!!!
Okay. sorry, i didn't realize that your intention.
Well I never said you were being emotional, so don't look at me. Besides, life is too short to worry about what others think anyways.
sniff, sniff! (blowing nose and wiping tears away) I really thought you, Stevenix, of all people, would understand! Without my emotions, what would I be? Just a glob of bland paste, primarily. I treasure my emotions. They tell me when people are being pedantic, boring, overly abusive, and crude, as well as funny, informative and loving. Yet, some people (who will remain nameless) continue to assert that being emotional is a bad thing!!! What? Imagine the forums without emotions - would we even continue to come here? I think not! and now for the obligatory emoticons:: all of which were invented especially for women like me! and also !!!!!
Aw don't cry mega. I didn't mean like that. Besides, emotions can be a wonderful thing, as it can give us strength whenever things aren't looking so great. Or make us appreciate the little things in life as well. Besides, I don't disagree with anything you said in forums so far, so you shouldn't cry. Plus, I wouldn't want you to change Mega, as hubpages would be boring without you around.
(stifling sobs) You do? you really think so? Oh, Stevie, thanks! I feel so much better now~! and I feel the same way about you (and your friend!)
I don't do, and don't really like the flirtatious thing - from me or 'them'. The other lot - women basically. And posters pretending to be women of course.
Basically I'm not interested in that particular forum game. As for viewpoints - it makes no difference to me what sex the poster is. A coherent, interesting, entertaining post can come from anyone.
For me, forums are for fun, showing off, and subverting - but most of all, just to add something that is worth a read, a chuckle or a thought.
A world away from 400 words of cut and pasted religious or political stuff.
I'm with Mark on this one. The flirtation, or whatever you will call it, often completely hi-jacks the thread. As I flirt better in person, I tend to mostly avoid such conversational gambits in forums, and try to stay on topic.
I've never seen your forum posts as sexist or subversive. You always add something, and never demean.
So far I have received a couple comments and I just reply to them as I should and I write to them how I would want to be written to. I think it all has to do with how you put yourself out there! <3
mega1 and Cags, you have such an interesting affinity with and for each other.
I don't like flirting unless its genuine. So if I ever appear to flirt w/ anyone its a misconception, I'm just being humorous or lighthearted. But women shouldn't have to feel like they have to use flirting as some sort of current of magnetism. You Women are magnetic creatures. Just go with it.
I'm not sure I know what you mean about flirting being genuine. It seems to me that flirting is manipulative, a way to get attention. It's really got nothing to do with the object of the flirtation but rather with the game initiated by the flirter, where the objective is to score a self-serving, gratifying outcome.
Okay then I guess I just dont like flirting, period. Thanks for clearing that up.
Sally, I disagree. You are certainly correct that what you've stated is often true - but sex or flirtation in general are not just self serving, but also natural and healthy things -gifts from the creator; but only when they are not attained by manipulations.
Men mistakenly think (this is a generalization - not a truth) that women only want their money, and are basically for sale
Women are not pleasure toys, and men are not just providers of material nonsense.
The women who see things in the manipulation scheme of things often lead unfulfilled lives with horrible relationships - because they don't seem to value what is most valuable about themselves, and what is most valuable is who they are.
Oh - don't get me wrong - I'm the most lust filled creature this side of Eden, but I at least have learned that sex is mostly a young man's pursuit, and that we've sometimes got old age and life to look forward to, and good conversation, tastes great, and is more fulfilling.
I enjoyed your comment, although I don't agree with all of it. I do like the sense of it that portrays flirting as a natural manifestation of how men and women relate, like what bower birds do.
I don't know what men think about women wanting their money. As you imply, and I agree, there are other reasons men are suspicious of women, among them their own deeply personal reasons for avoiding commitment (not that all men do, of course).
With all that said, you and I can agree to disagree. I think flirting is manipulation, but it just may be that I am a female bower bird and have not yet found a male willing to work hard enough to put just the right combination of things in place.
I'll end this comment by saying that the men who see things in the manipulation scheme of things often lead unfulfilled lives with horrible relationships, as well.
Hmm. This thread turned serious since the last time I saw it. I'm one of those women who doesn't know how to flirt. If I think about it, though, I realize that when I was a teenager and working in a store with lots of teen boys who were flirting with girls who worked there, I flirted back (a little). There was something flattering and innocent in the ways these 16-year-old boys (who weren't at all sure of themselves with a girl they kind of liked) flirted; so it was kind of easy to just join in. I see it going on when I now shop at the grocery store and a certain kind of conversation goes on between the cashier and the "sacker" sometimes. It brings back memories.
Then, though, I outgrew that and got so where I wouldn't pick up on just any guy's flirting because I'd gotten old enough tor recognize it for what it was (which was pretty much along the lines of the "bower birds" thing, I'm guessing (although I've never heard of bower birds. ) Or else, it was just teens getting used to socially interacting with lots of other teens of the opposite sex (with "who finds whom appealing" being a factor - but 16-year-old boys tend to find most girls appealing).
The only other time I ever got involved with any behavior that seemed at all like flirting was when it was someone I was actually interested in, and who was interested in me, and what - again - it kind of came as part of the awkward, sending kind-of-like-you, signals thing. The rest of the time in my grown-up life, if some guy seems to be flirting my reaction runs from dismissing it to finding it kind (or very) obnoxious. So that's offline life. Lots of women (like me) aren't into being manipulative, wanting to seem to be "leading someone on", or interested in "meaningless silliness" in interactions with guys. (No offense intended to anyone who enjoys flirting. I just don't happen to get it, and it doesn't happen to be in my personality." Something that CAN happen, though, is that sometimes I'll be being my usual friendly self, and someone will interpret that as flirting (and it really isn't). I suppose in a world of so many different kinds of people, misinterpreting stuff is going to happen. )
Online, nobody seems to flirt with me . I'm guessing that's because I don't put an actress picture up, I write about serious stuff much of the time, and I make no secret that I'm old enough to have grown kids. Back to the original thread question: IF anyone were to flirt with me in respond to a serious post I'd ignore it. When other people flirt back and forth I figure it's their business and move on too. Personally, I don't get flirting online because much of the time the people involved are flirting with a fake avatar that could really be some "gross" person in real life. (Based on my own thinking about, I guess I must "know how to flirt" , but I guess I have to be interested in the person before I'd find myself behaving in a way that would called "flirting", even if I weren't aiming to be "a flirt"). I guess nobody involved minds (or else they know, behind the scenes, who the other person really is) It's all fine I guess. People like different stuff. I just happen to be someone who isn't a big fan of online flirting for myself (good thing, eh? ) I like plain, old, social interaction that leaves flirting out, whether a thread is a fun one or a serious one.
As for me, I don't post in the forums too much, In the R&B forum, that is just a MISTAKE IMO.
But in the other forums...I've asked questions about my computer having no sound, or something else, and both men and women have come to my rescue.
Unfortunately *sigh* men don't flirt with me unless it was a long time ago.
But as far as contributing to the forums...I don't think I feel like I have to flirt...................................I don't think I know how!
I've never known how to flirt...One year, many ago, a co-worker recognized this and offered to teach me.
There was an older gentleman at the company, a security guard with a solid marriage, and my friend suggested I "try him out" with her coaching, to see if I had any flirting potential. She'd prepared him for this lesson of mine, and me, too...and guess what? I was a total failure. Just something I never learned how to do.
Ewww, what a horrible idea - suggesting that you use some innocent bloke as "practice". OK, so your friend told him what was going on but it almost sounds as though she set you both up for her own amusement. I hate that kind of stuff. And I'm crap at flirting too. I also think that if you need to act drastically out of character (i.e. flirt) in order to be able to embark on a relationship, then the relationship isn't worth having anyway.
I'm so sorry that you felt an "Ewww" was in order. He wasn't an innocent bloke (thought I made that clear); his agreed role was to coach me in cooperation with my friend. He was as much for my "education" as my friend, out of the goodness of his heart.
As for your thought that if one needs to flirt in order to be able to embark on a relationship, I agree the relationship is more likely than not doomed, although I think there may be exceptions.
I'm so glad y'all have cleared that up for me. Flirting is basically nasty, unless you do it right!
Now, who wants a margarita?
The interesting thing about a female bower bird is that she doesn't initiate flirting or flirt back. She simply accepts or rejects the advances in her direction.
Sorry Klara, but that's the kind of bird I like too. Prevents alot of time wasting.
As always with your comments, Lisa, there is such richness, so many paths to walk down, so many things to think about.
Maybe there's an article idea in this for you or me...who has the time to see it through?
You and I share this awkwardness of what it means to be flirtatious, yet it isn't that we didn't have models to show us the way, if we wanted to go down that road.
Thanks, Sally's Trove (although I'm not sure a lot of the people who come to forums are always looking for "so many paths" - and yet I post anyway. )
It is a good idea for an article. If you see it as something you'd like to do in the near future, I'd like to read it. If you don't have time, it might be something I'd add to my list for "some day" stuff (which means there's a good chance I'd never get to it anyway), but even if I ever got inspired to write about the subject it would be from a very different angle Actually, here's a Part II to your article if you decide to write it: "How Not Being Flirtatious Can Actually Be Very Effective in Attracting the Right Kind of Person".
Please add to your "some day" list, as I will. Maybe we can collaborate in the future. If I have the time for an article like this, I'll definitely email you. Sometimes two heads can be better than one, and I think you and I have a lot to share about this topic.
Hmm, can't say I've ever witnessed anyone get engaged on HubPages. What an interesting idea. The whole 'on bended knee thing' would have to be closely monitored by HP -you know, for the safety of the proposer.
Question is, how to do "Hubber/Hubberette" episodes, and will HP allow video casting per episode, like ABC or Hulu? Will there be a "Hub Ceremony" as elimination round? And what about Hubs of their travels to say Tahiti, Hong-Kong, Morocco? Sky Diving Dates and such? Cocktail Parties. Post season interviews and follow-ups?
He he, I am just having a laugh.
I think you should propose this thought stream of yours to HP. Goodness knows HP needs something to propel them into a site of interest and value. Reality TV's a big thing these days.
Laughing with you.
Actually (provided this was not make-believe), I think there were a couple of people who did end up getting married after meeting on here. (Of course, who knows what the heck to believe or not believe? It could have been two alter-ego/sockpuppets marrying each other, for all I know. Goodness knows sockpuppets have been to known to have whole conversations with themself (themselves?) on here.
There's so many kinds of flirting! I bet there are many people do it, and claim they don't! and that's part of the game.
Then there are the "outrageous flirts" who don't give a rat's a$$ who can see them flirting like sluts - I'm not one of those - anymore. I have to confess that in high school I was the outrageous kind and I had a blast manipulating the teenage boys (especially the ones who were a couple years older and thought they were manipulating me!) and making them blush and scrape their feet. It was the best fun I've ever had, and I'm so sorry if I was rather sadistic, but I was hormone-driven too, and couldn't help it. I think the boys were enjoying it too, and learning a lot at the same time - we all were.
It's just that it was like that teen giggle that bubbles up from somewhere and you have to release it or you will explode and then once its out it is so contagious and every girl teen nearby is giggling for no good reason and it is pretty damn hard to stop. Thanks for the memories. If flirting and loving it is something bad, then I don't want to be good! I only wish I had my 15 year old powers back again! Those were the days.
I don't think flirting is bad. I do feel silly to think back on some of the boys I found worthy of flirting with, though. As for giggling, I still find that whenever a group of close women friends are together there still tends to be lots of it (although when you're a woman it's called "cackling" )
Megan flirting outragiously?!! Noooo!! That would be unimaginable!
Flirting was very much a part of HP about 12ths ago.
Met some wondeful and humourous writers here.
At least once a week someone got ,naked ,had too much to drink ,or argued shamelessly for 4 or 5 pages before the thread was closed down.
Then the flouce farewells would begin,well we still have them I guess ,just the drama is not as funny
It tends to more serious now,and dare I say a little uptight, well kinda ,sorta.
I guess its part of evolving
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When I tell a straight girl that I am gay, the usual response is "men can do a better job" Why...do straight girls feel the need to try and convince me that, that is what I should believe?
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