I am discouraged by the number of fake Christians I have known. They attend church on Sundays, read the Bible and even wear crosses around their necks. But they: 1. Own expensive cars and homes. 2. Give little to charity. 3. Rarely donate their time 4. Look down their noses at the "lazy" poor. 5. Act immorally for the sake of money, status and power. 6. Vote for politicians who enrich their supporters and oppose programs for people in need. What is your definition of a true Christian?
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@charlie (celafoe) said:
"Though Christianity should mean followers of Christ , today it usually means followers of certain men, which are false religions." Unquote
I agree with one here.Modern Christianity does not belong to Jesus. Please
People who still believe in the distorted biblical interpretations R just as off as 'churchgoers' about Christ. U R set free when U realize the pagan gospels R lies & awaken to 'God within' as Christ did.
This crazy notion that church goers are bad people is insane. Hatred of churches is hatred and is not according to Christ. Get together and have some happy and rejoice in Christ. Screw dogma for or now the de jour against church.
eric-again you accuse falsely. I never said churchgoers are bad peoplehe church system is not of God and those who serve a man or a church are not serving Christ. Disciples of Christ serve Christ not any man or plan of man.
Stop telling lies
Charlie, you are not telling lies if you don't believe they are lies - and your perception is based on conspiracy theories. You're both 'off' where Christ is concerned. It is yet another good example of Christian chaos.
It is fine to say that the HS told me that and it is different than what the HS told you. But I firmly believe that if both views and interpreted through love and thought they will find commonality.
Commonality? Really? Christ's message is more of a general fairytale, then - nothing 'real' about it if we can just sort of piece things together within our own mind and find a common sliver with others? That sounds like a complacent excuse...
Can we judge someone and love them at the same time?
We are not to judge the person, rather the sin. Slight difference but very important. If we judge the sin we can still love the person, but judging and loving the person at the same time would be difficult if not impossible. Mt 18:15-17
I agree completely. Thanks for a clear answer to my question.
Scott there is a mix up on who and why to judge.
We certainly are not fit to to do the Heavenly Father's work based on Jas 4:12 There is only one who is Lawgiver and Judge,
We are only to use the word in our case that we judge our own steps.
If one does not believe the Bible 'is' God speaking, why believe at all (Jn1:1;14)? If God said His Word is "...profitable for reproof, for correction..." (II Tim 3:16)is this not God "judging" when using Word & not 'man?'
Do you think someone who walks the walk " example responds to evil with true grace and temptation with blessings temptation with fortitude" can't only respond so with supernatural powers provided only by The Father?
Also Eric will we quote from imperfect human errors when we have a perfect choice as an example .humans have failed us never our Heavenly Father.
Perhaps K&T those you have followed have failed you. Do not presume they have failed me. Perhaps you chose poorly.
II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed... There is no list of scriptures & we KNOW there were edicts destroying hundreds of texts. R U SURE the Romans didn't censor or manipulate to suit their pagan beliefs? God can be PROVEN, read my 1st hub.
Socialism, in its purest form, is about people working together as a society to ensure that the fruits of their labours are distributed in a fair and just way so that nobody suffers. That is also the essence of Christianity.
I agree, John. Taken too far, it also can weaken individual responsibility in some people. So it seems that a combination of the best parts of socialism with the best parts of capitalism can serve Christianity and society at the same time.
If it became LAW that we had to be Christian then how would we punish those who miss the mark or refuse? Sounds alot like Israel before Christ!
Inquisition and witch hunts Gregory. On socialism I think we right here and now have a close to good amount now. People who are hungry or homeless here now have much more than poverty to blame. Christians are doing well also.
the one true church of Jesus Christ has no resemblance to socialism. It is fully serving God in in His way,theocracy and freedom. socialism serves man and his desires- foolishness and bondage
I agree, God guilds us through the holy bible, and by the teachings of Jesus in so many ways, helping us to make difficult decisions.
not true scripture states clearly that we are no longer sinners after we become true disciples of Christ. we may sin but we repent. sinners lifestyle is sin
Susan some people like to say "I sin but am not a sinner because...." Semantics are funny that way. I trust far more a man who recognizes he is a sinner.
anyone that says a true born again disciple of Christ is still a sinner has no real comprehension of scripture. says scripture
I would assume that this comment means that the Celafoe no longer sins. Far out. I have never met such a man before or after baptism. But Charlie is special.
eric again you show you lack of understanding and love for lies. I never said I do not sin, scripture says a real disciple of Christ is not a sinner, we sin ,repent are forgiven but IT IS NOT OUR LIFESTYLE. sinners do not repent or change
U know NOTHING about sin, Charlie - U don't know what God created it for; and you you're clueless about its purpose in our lives. This is where C's do the most harm: allowing imposed pagan views to continue harming vulnerable souls.
Charlie you do well with faith. But do not venture into semantics. What you just said here is complete word games. One who sins is a sinner. Is that hard for your your understanding of words? One who sins is a sinner. So clear and so true.
"One who sins is a sinner. So clear and so true." Everyone who believes this is in bondage to the pagan version of Christianity. Moreover, U believe in lies meant to deceive & keep U from the truth. Do your homework, C's.
A focus on sin seems to me to emphasize the negative in Christianity. Is it healthier to focus on virtue and righteousness?
tithing was for the old testament only, only a natural levite could collect a tithe. it is NOT PART OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AGE. It was part of the previous age and was finished at the cross with the rest of that age
I know that. But, tithing is also a thing people do. For the church. ;)
gr- but true Christians do not. and they do not "go to church", they know THEY ARE THE CHURCH. They do noting for the "churches of men".
only disciples of men go to "church"
You can continue to try to separate Christians into as many piles as you want, Charlie - that's how we ended up with so many denomenations, LoL! How many more do you think we need to explain things? Think outside of the box...
Don't question my spirituality. I am a Christian. I go to church occasionally to learn a little more about the Bible and see if they teach the stuff I do know the way I do.
Thx! That's your view, this is mine.
Clear as a bell with no ambiguity whatsoever: Matthew 7:1-3.
Celafoe you are false doctrine.
eric- as usual your scripture reference has nothing to do with he scripture at hand. you do not understand scripture at all, but the you say it is not needed , just your perverted idea of love is all in all.
Not even a question, GalaxyRat - no doubt you are a Christian. Contentment of belief is within our intentions. But, some Christians see themselves as judges of everyone else; and its amazing how twisted things R just among Christians.
Charlie you preach false doctrine. At least I do not say I am right and you are wrong. At least I do not claim to be God's spokesman as you do. And yes I do not teach hate and condemnation if differing from me, I teach love is God.
Thanks Catherine- being Christian is accepting Jesus, keeps a clear head (at least tries to), tries not to sin, and all that. Also: Charlie, you may worship differently, but that doesn't mean we do as well.
Each man/soul is created by our God and Savior and the Holy Spirit. Please have your own belief on the Trinity concept. I like the different aspect of ourselves. And so God created our belief unique. Good for Charlie, not how God made me.
The problem with trinity is that it harmfully distorts Jesus' human example & purpose - plus, it defines humans erroneously as 'unworthy sinners' (this is the very idea Jesus came to FREE souls FROM cuz it ALREADY existed in paganism).
Ecc 7:20 is 'true' for we were all "born in sin" (Rm 5:12) and is why "Ye must be born again" (Jn3:5-7) thereafter He "...remembers our sin no more"(Jer 31:33; Heb 8:10; 10:16)!
It's not the 'money' but the 'love of money' that condemns us(ITm6:10)!
Misfit you are a human that is also no match to perfection. Who changes your opinions many times.
I do not think humans have our solution and cures global only the Heavenly Father does we can rely on him a 100 percent on that.
You are limited
If eternal damnation really exists & God loves us - WHY make 'salvation' so tricky when he gave the Israelites 10 Commandments so easily TWICE cuz they were 'sinning' with an idol? Answer: Its not tricky, just very misunderstood. Read my 1st hub.
Great answer! Short and simple, but very true.
Very thought and belief provoking. Well done.
Misfit the only person is right is the Heavenly Father. Again thats what has preserved before our birth and will continue .The point is are we in cooperation with those words written. Or are we drawing attention and distracting from the truth.
You are making no sense, as is often the case K&T. God does not need an incomplete, mind-manipulating, man-made book - 'his word' is SPIRIT. Try actually reading my hub for a change instead of replying with irrelevant distortions.
K&T I have listened to you for several years now. Is there a possibility of personal there and not just quote quote quote. I think that you have taught us you have no personal mind. Kudos that is great. But for here it is blah blah blah.
Eric I read the words of the Heavenly Father as the highest authority of human life .I take it very serious as it is truth and has not failed in what its outcome will be. My or yours our Misfit can not ever equal that power or knowledge. We need him.
Thanks K&T I think those might be the first two comments that I remember at least where "you" spoke and did not just quote.
Eric at Matthew 4:4. Jesus quoted from scriptures many times He quoted from Deuteronomy 8:3
Man must not live on bread alone but on every word coming from Gods word.Also at (Luke 4:16-19) he quoted Isaiah 61: 1-3
Matthew 21:16.it is refrences .
One of the most harmful things C-founders did was call that book 'God's word' - cuz now people WON'T & DON'T take the time to 'listen' to him for themselves. It has dulled our minds & our spiritual development. Twisted truths are not our real
Catherine your answer you said that you were now "enlightened". Don't you think that there are many more people that are "enlightened" than there have ever been. I don't think we now have more non-thinkers/hearers than before.
MC, How about the concept of free will? I consider myself a person of faith, not a religion. You're right about erroneous dogmas. Most Christians know so little about the history and original text of the Bible. Problem is religions are made by people
The concept of free will is very covered in my hub, Mike. It exists, big time. The 'new' basic spirituality is stuff that both atheists, christians & other religions have been exploring for at least three decades. God exists, its proven.
Yes! The Spirit is the basis of all Christian beliefs and the insight that is so helpful in understanding it. Otherwise, a person is left only with morality and doctrines.
actually he is correct in judging the fruit of those professing Christianity. It is required of Christians. see I cor 9:12
God gave us the ability to judge. You judged me by implying I am a hypocrite.
charlie, I agree with you 100%.
if the same effort is made at finding the judge scriptures then you could come to a full understanding of judging ourselves, fellow believers, and out siders. Some we are to other we are not.
Sorry, Corinth 9:12 has nothing to do with judging others. My point is there are no perfect Christians. Can't say, if you don't do what I think is right you're not Christian. Not right. Romans 3: 10 to 19
Mike, I agree there are no perfect Christians. No one is pure including me. But if God gave us the ability to judge, and Christ asked us to live a certain way, then we learn what it means to be a Christian in part by judging -- ourselves and others.
Scott, we agree. I get tired of Christians saying who is and is not Christian. I had a Baptist tell me Catholics weren't Christian. The list goes on. I believe evil wants us fighting with one another. If I see something bad I say God has this.
Your scripture is not theological at all. We are to judge be vigilant and do it constantly. The word judge there means to "be critical. So read it like this " Do not criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be criticized and condemed"
Only the Word of God "judges" (Is 8:20) because the Word 'is' God (Jn1:1)to be used to "correct" (II Tim3:16)
IF we are disciples of Christ!
Also Eric are you a person who claimbs God , but says listen to me , the scriptures are there for a reason and preserved for our salvation into the New future.
Humans are in the condition of world wide atrocities because they can not rule or solve.
K&T you hang out with the wrong persons. those who I hang out with are not as you describe.
mike- neither does Ro 3:10-- it talking about using the law to judge not about judging according to the NEW testament. you clearly have no scriptural understanding of the subject on judging of judging which is required by the NT
Hi, Daniel. Great point. I agree it's not a sin to have wealth.
I believe it's hypocritical for someone to pursue wealth over everything else, destroy people's careers to gain power and attend church on Sunday to put on an act of being righteous.
Yes Scott, that is where the pride come in. This happened to me. When I lost all due to sickness, a brother who had enough came in to help, but he tried to subdue me as a result of the help he gave out. I was defenseless because everyone believed him
Is there a school of thought that reflects this view or is it just yours?
Sounds like Gnostic.
It is truthful and reasonable.
Others should also believe it if they are are reasonable and are not reason-blind. One could differ with me,however, no compulsion whatsoever. Right? Please
absolutely false doctrine.
This is the new perspective on Paul I've been telling you about, Eric. YES, Paul taught something completely different than what C's have been taught - BUT Paul is not the conspiracy, the pagan church was. Many C's hate Paul, now - SO sad!
Paarsurrey. I respect your rather Gnostic/Islamic approach. But for sure I need not remind you that most people who are not Muslim recognize Jesus as the Son of God. For sure even Buddhists.
That is not true, Eric. Buddhist & other religions consider Jesus to be the 'same kind' of Master that Buddha was - which, he was. Plus, as I have told you so many times - Christian perspectives are changing, big time. Read my 1st spotlight hub.
Once you give your life to Jesus it body no longer belongs to you. Which means you have Christ living in you. So, before you do something that you think is not right pray and say to yourself: WWJD? What Would Jesus Do?
That's a thorough and informative answer. I personally find your insights about Pharisaical attitudes helpful to me. Your link is helpful as well. Thank you.
"...have the supernatural presence of God living inside of you in relationship through the Holy Spirit."
Amen! "You must be born again" (Jn3:5-7)!
Thanks, Matty. I do believe they have money, power and status as a priority. Some of them also use church attendance more for status and image than for fellowship.
I thought Word says "God is the Potter and we are the clay" (Is64:8)yet we try to continue in "Muscular Christanity" trying to help Him!
Titus 2:11-12 "Grace" (aka Jesus; Jn1:14)"teaches us that, denying ungodliness..."
Mr TW based on Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young,,, the point here its working with Jesus not against him.
why would Jesus care about the earth since He understands that it will be destroyed and replaced with a new one at the end of this age?
scripture contains the Word of God, nothing else does.
There is no official list of scripture - just a collection of picked-thru, manipulated texts (hundreds others were destroyed & people killed over them). Trust Rome's power-hungry killers if U want. I know better now & other C's do too. Catch
Very enlightened responce, hopefully what you mean by through Jesus... He is the chain of command. Then you refer to the Holy spirit. The Holy Spirit isn't a conscience, or anything but CHRIST, it iS CHRIST. This means relationship with the trinity.
I believe the Holy Spirit is a what rather than a who. It is the spiritual experience that touches enlightened humans and gives them the insight to understand God. Without it, belief in God is merely a concept.
Scott! If I speak "through" a microphone; "who" is speaking?
Acts 1:2 "Jesus spoke "through" the ["Glory" of] Holy Spirit & gave commandments to chosen apostles."
Jn 14:26 says the Holy Spirit was "sent in His Name" (aka Jesus)!
What? You are not serious here are you?
Erik Dierker Why wouldn't I be?
Torah? and not the new??
This is probably one of those conspiracy theory people who sees Yeshua as the Messiah and NOT Jesus Christ. The New Testament has been getting a bad rep among Christians bcuz of PAUL. Reasons Y R in my hub.
Erik when did i I say Torah and not the new? I said Torah and the new. Both of them.
Catherine Yeshua is just what is believed to be the Hebrew name for Jesus. It's still the same person, just a different name.
You didn't include 'the new' in your response; and there are many conspiracy theorists who believe that. I'm glad to hear you are not one of them. :)
Adding the new makes me glad in this discussion. For sure Torah and the new. So exciting in my life and that of my family. It is like hanging out with a 90 year old and a 30 year old and they speak in sync.Read with unison is synergistic love.
Actually, they do sync up - but bcuz most C's have the gospel story distorted, they don't; and there are LOTS of silly explanations for out-of-sync contradictions that you see. Everything made sense to Jesus. What is the difference?
I agree that a true Christian represents the qualities of Christ. But after a long life, I still don't know how any of us can understand the mind of God.
I Cor 2:10 "But God hath revealed them unto us 'by His Spirit:' for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."
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all good and Christian things but not the measure of a saint, recognition of being a sinner, repenting, being baptized in water AND THE SPIRIT, committing to Christ and following Him are the most important and ARE REQUIRED
They R not required anymore & never have been. The ONLY reason people still say they are required is because they still believe the old stuff that has been proven to be tainted & harmful to the soul. Read my spotlight hub to clear stuff up.
How does one rectify the advice of someone who insists that the only advice comes from personal study and the HS and not from him? "Listen to me, but do not listen to me". Or is it, listen only to me and the HS, others are false? To hard to follow Ce
misfit-- I have no desire to read anything that is contrary to scripture
And thus, the reason Y so many Christians R still operating in the dark. Its okay, darkness is as valid a place to play in as the light; and we all find our way in perfect timing. I respond for seekers searching beyond the muck & mire.
Catherine, Christians are made better by questioning and then questioning. Thinking!! I love Descartes for faith with thought.
And I also love the overflowing of love from Christ.
U mean well, Eric - I know it seems that I am here to squash Christian beliefs - no, I'm trying to help get them in perspective as Jesus actually taught; cuz there is much more there than we knew about. The 'real' truth is FAR MORE amazing!
Catherine so true. "Going to church" should be a good time had by all. Knowledge of Christ should be me alone or you and I shooting the s---. My wife and son and I love to talk about the big it. Maybe some day we will find it.
Sí, el Espíritu Santo que viene de Dios debe tener un lugar más alto en nuestras vidas que cualquier iglesia.
That's a practical, down-to-earth answer, Jaloni. Thank you.
Jamie this sounds really good.But clear up one part please. "going to church". I think I get where you are coming from but if you mean a building or traditional services I get nervous.
a true disciple of Christ knows he IS THE CHURCH, he does not go to church. you have described the doctrines of the "churches of men" and not the church of Jesus Christ
false doctrine according to scripture
The scripture never mentions "true" Christians. Maybe Paul eludes to attempting perfection but not even Jesus suggests, true versus non true.
eric- how ridiculous a statement. We are constantly warned in scripture to beware of false brethren (those professing to be what they are not there are true and false in everything . Those professing Christ and using other doctrines are not true
Amen to that mirror shot.
A cold calculating personal determination of who is Christian and who is not is False doctrine. Matthew 7:1-3 is so cool and should guide you.
Charlie, for someone who is accutely aware of the difference between the church of men & of Christ - you sure cling to that book that powerhungry pagans created to put your mind in bondage. God's word is SPIRIT, not ink on paper.
eric- still going with the cheap shots satan. I know the scriptures well and am always standing ready to be judged by the same measure I use-- but ONLY BY GOD,and Spirit filled real Christians not by you
Would it shock you to know that I am a spirit-filled Christian who still speaks fluently in other tongues, Charlie? Wake up to what God has been bringing out to Christians in a big way for about 3 decades, now - catch up! :)
Matt 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it
Yup, you've got that fear-inducing book down pat - just like pagan rulers wanted U to. Prayer to Mithras: Spirit of Spirit, if it be your will, give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again - and the sacred spirit may breathe in me.
Funny that, some run on in the notion that Greek, Aramaic and Latin should take fear of God to mean something less than total respect. Sorry but I love God and I am not afraid of Him at all.
I was talking to Charlie. I have no doubt that U are only afraid of God in the 'respectful' way that Christians were taught to be afraid of him. There is absolutely no reason to fear God, only religious people.
It even translates into acting in Christ. My 7 year old totally gets me and mostly is in awe. Not because I am great but because his love is respect and his respect is love. And I damn well promise that it goes both ways. Loving respect is so cool.
When you fear or respect someone because you HAVE to - there is a serious disconnect. In reality, fear & respect are not interchangeable - thats just manipulative BS that you don't understand & your kid (of course!) thinks its NEAT if you do.
No matter how rich we are, we must humble ourselves and behave like kids, as Jesus Christ did. Remember what He said about the rich-man. Every rich christians need to stick to those sayings if they wish to be with him at the end.
this is contrary to scripture. this earth will be replaced with a heaven and earth. a true disciple of Christ is described above
NO, SEE ABOVE
This is really good. I posit that it is he who lives and cares and loves.
If God loves us & Hell exists - why didn't he go out of his way (like he did for Israelites 10 Commandments) to make 'the way' FAR more clear? In fact, he did. Research or read my 1st spotlight hub if you want a good place to start.
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