When we close our eyes from the great and wonderful inner and external worlds believing the creation and working of the same by self,by chance ,then we are presuming a magical world by deceiving ourselves like atheists,therefore,I stated that atheism is no more a deception.Atheism is an'' intellectual''attempt to avoid one ''unseen'' God by replacing through impossible imaginary and magical universe.
A world operating on the natural laws of the universe is a "magical" one? We have very, very different definitions of magic.
To most people, "magic" denotes events or actions that violate natural laws, not follow them. Things like wine spontaneously turning to water, dust turning into people, and stars/solar systems forming in hours instead millions of years. These would be "magic", not animals slowly evolving to fit better in an ever changing environment.
Wilderness,,it is correct that a world working under natural laws is not magical but a world evolved'' by self'' and working'' by chance'' under the natural laws as presupposed by the atheists is not more than a magical world.This'' by chanced'' and ''self evolved'' world is magical not the world working under natural laws.
psycheskinner,Progress is not confinement of the reason,it is application of the reason,for example, when atheists say they can never believe a God who can never be'' touched ''or ''seen'',they just express their ''confinement of reason'' and not the'' application of the reason'',therefore,atheism is the religion or deception of confinement of reason.
Atheism may be courageous in the sense it over throws ''gods'' but it is extremism or nonsense when it denies ''God'',it may be helpful in understanding the ''fictitious gods'' but it is ridicule when it rejects God.
I know nobody has taken a spaceship to the Universe and checked out or looked under every rock for God.
Saying, I don't know, gives us freedom and a better chance to get a closer understanding. So far, it's the greatest BS story I've ever heard, still trying to understand better, for all of us are in the same boat. Maybe most of the BS will just float away into space in time.
I accept that is for you, fine for you. Please do not assume that my disbelief is in any way inferior to yours. That is all.
If theism is true for you, fine. If atheism is true for me, fine.
Any presumption that theism is superior to atheism simply brings in competition. Such presumption can cause breakup of families, social antagonism, skirmishes, wars, even capital punishment for those who "waver." Why can't you just let people choose for themselves, instead of presuming that we all need to be converted? It does not matter what we believe, as long as we learn to live and let live.
I can appreciate that what you say would make perfect sense and would be a great way to think IF God were not real and true, and IF truth really was merely subjective. But since God is real and true and he himself is in fact truth, it doesn't benefit us to perceive of ultimate, absolute truth as any subjective thing. To just each believe whatever we want is harmful in many situations that require action: If we have cancer, but wish we did not and so we choose to believe we do not, then we will not get needed treatment and live; If our house is about to explode, but we wish it were not so we choose to believe it is not, then we will not get out of the house and live.
If a doctor tells you that you have cancer, they are not evil for it; If someone tells you your house is about to explode, they are not evil for it. In fact it is the one who knows you have cancer or knows your house is going to explode, yet says nothing, who is actually acting in an evil manner. Likewise, those who tell you your spiritual action is required - receipt of the free gift of eternal life is necessary to make it go into effect for you - are the ones who are trying to benefit you and who truly care about you. Even if you do not agree, and you think it leads to conflicts (which it does), can you at least see that to truly believe and care means the believer will attempt to alert you to what they see as a dangerous situation and attempt to show you how to escape and live?
Unlike absolute truth, there is truth that is subjective by God's design and we are free to find our own truth in these areas. So truth for one may be that classical music is beautiful, while truth for another is that hard rock is excellent, and truth for yet another is that both are glorious. God has so wonderfully made us to each be who we are and to appreciate differing things, which are all valuable because of their value to one or another person.
If while wrting all that irrelevant rhetoric, CAT333, you still cannot understand that your perception of god is subjective and can in no way be proven as "real," then there is no further need for discussion with you.
I am hostile to your presumptions in the way you declare your beliefs as if they are final, undeniable and applicable to everyone. I have often declared your right to hold those for yourself and continue to do so. But please be aware that when you preach your fanaticism to others you are NOT preaching truth, only your personal beliefs. Just make sure they know that. Don't deceive them.
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. (1 Corinthians 2:12-14) Those with the indwelling Holy Spirit and those whose hearts are being softened by the Holy Spirit will recognize the truth.
Well, when someone goes out of their way to tell me they are an atheist, in real life, they tend to be that way. You guys on the internet seem pretty interesting. Although most do still seem to be unimaginative. As an artist, I wouldn't think that applied to you.
I suppose that everything is never in black and white. So, you are right. In some respects an atheist can be imaginative. However, atheism didn't give us all of the benefits you are attributing to it. It was a group effort to get us where we are scientifically. That assumption is one mistake the laymen who advocates atheism makes.
I do still believe that, even if an atheist were responsible for a great scientific achievement, that does not make them imaginative. It would make them imaginative in some respect. By denying the possibility of a greater force in the universe one does limit one's thought processes on that front. So, when the question of imagination is posed in a religion and philosophy forum it is not unreasonable to label atheism as an unimaginative philosophy.
It was probably a religious person who came up with that schtick. Like, George Carlin came up with Dogma. Usually, when we laugh at ourselves we create the most humor. I don't know that I've ever met an atheist who was good at laughing at themselves.
I think the problem is, when you go out of your way to label yourself, you lose some of the ability to be more than your chosen label.
I was going to counter with another three words but I don't want anyone thinking I have a problem with atheists. There is nothing wrong with each of us being true to ourselves. We may not mesh on every level but that isn't a bad thing at all.
Whereas Christians have every confidence in their 'sure and certain hope' of a resurrection as stated in The Bible, by the same reckoning atheists would have every confidence in their 'sure and certain' disbelief.
You are quite right; the actual passage :'in sure and certain hope of the resurrection to eternal life' occurs in the Book of Common Prayer,' not The Bible so I stand corrected. Nevertheless believers are just as certain of their beliefs as atheists are of their disbelief.
Stella, with respect, "beliefs" do not really come into the atheistic mind-set.
I, with atheist understandings, dwell on observable facts. When a fact is encountered, the need for "belief" disappears. "Belief" here describes something that cannot be proven. It depends on several mental tendencies:
A desire that something is so, without knowing for sure that it is so. A sort of pigeon hole, where any unknown is put pending further evidence for or against A need to show some kind of superiority over other opinions
I do not put my refusal to accept the premise of an over-lording "god" as a belief. Belief does not come into it. What I see, hear, feel, taste, smell, plus a bit of imagination searching for more clues....this is adequate for me in my everyday life.
Acknowledging that others have different mental needs is part of my compassion as a human being.
Can't stop now, have an appointment....helping a young person to learn mathematics.
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