The reality is that we are alone in this eternal, dark, and cold universe. Why can't we accept this reality? Death is the end. There is no heaven, and there is no hell. We do not need religion in order to have a purpose in life. The purpose is to survive and not harm anyone in the process. Why do we need the fantasy of hell to keep us from doing wrong to our fellow humans?
You have no more evidence to prove your "reality" than adherents to various religions have for proving theirs. The only difference between their "fantasy" and your "reality" is opinion. Just because you call your opinion "reality" doesn't make it real. I can call my cat a brontosaurus, but that doesn't make it "reality."
Furthermore, using pejoratives to diminish the opinions of others does not reduce those opinions to the status implied by the pejorative. A subtly executed insult might make people who agree with you chuckle. It will certainly make people who don't agree with you mad (and think poorly of you), and, perhaps worst of all if your point really matters in any meaningful way, it completely eliminates any possibility that you might persuade someone to consider your point of view. In essence, you reduce yourself to simply preaching to the choir. At which point one has to wonder, why bother?
Shadesbreath,
Excellent response. Trying to persuade religious people that there is no God is like trying to persuade Republicans to become Democrats. At the end of the day, Republicans will do as Republicans do and Democrats will do as Democrats do. This is what you are saying by "preaching to the choir".
If you do not want to listen to my views because you are insulted by the comparison I used of God to Santa, then by all means go to another hub. However, just because you do not like the schock you get when you touch a door knob after rubbing your feet on the carpet doesn't eliminate the reality that freed electrons needed a place to go. You may not agree with the shock. You may not like the uncomfortable sensation of static electricity. Yet, you cannot ignore that electricity is real.
R
Correct. You can show me that electricity is real. You can demonstrate it, so we can BOTH agree that it exists.
You can't, however, prove to me that death is final. That is the claim you are making in your original post. If you can produce evidence that death is the absolute end and nothing happens afterwards with the same glaring obviousness that you can prove the existence of static electricity, please do so. I anxiously await the final, irrefutable demonstration of this. Just think, in the course of a forum post, you can neatly put aside the philosophical debates that have taken place throughout all time, and by some fantastically brilliant people. Please, do so at your earliest convenience.
In the meantime...
LONG LIVE BRONTOCATASAURUS!!!!
Shadesbreath,
One thing is for sure. When our lives end, we will know the truth.
In the meantime, there is no evidence that life continues beyond death. Quite a few people have passed on, and none of them have ever contacted us. Have they contacted you?
R
No one ever contacted me from an unexplored sea cave at the bottom of some ocean somewhere either. Does that mean there are no unexplored sea caves at the bottom of some ocean somewhere?
The point I'm getting at here, is that, while we can dance around and play word games all day, in the end, you have no more evidence that life is final than I do. It seems to me, based on your responses to others, that you really have a problem with religion.
As you said, "When our lives end, we will know the truth." That is a reasonable thing to say. In fact, I would venture that you and I could agree that THAT is a "reality." So, at least, we've struck upon a real "reality" finally. That's progress.
Sorry both of you are wrong. If one dies and there is life after death, you will know it. If one dies and there is not life after death, you will not know it, because you will have no consciousness. No consciousness no thought and memory.
if someone contacted with you,you would certainly believe and there wouldnt be any good reason why you were created by god, human being is under a difficult exam. to believe GOd's existence without being contacted by them and seeing the reality is your real quiz, there are messengers and holy books of God, they are not enough? think for a while why you are living,breathing, man is not unimportant creature, not believing god is easier than believing, that needs great courage, dont worry if there is not a life after death,you wont lose anything ,but ıf there is,ı am sorry for you. ın both ways. people who believe ,will not lose
Why would an intelligent, emotionally mature God expect one to believe in something without adequate evidence. I mean, if he made us, he did give us brains... Only a twisted God would come up with this kind of behavior. It smells of neurosis. And whatever else I believe, I do believe that if there was a God, this kind of 'testing' would be beneath him.
Sophia Angelique,
I want to marry you. Wait, I don't believe in marriage. You are still awesome!!
Great response. You know, I would be more willing to believe in God, if believers came up to me and said. "You must fear God because he is insane and powerful, and he can destroy you. He is unfair and he is letting this evil dude named Satan terrorize us. Many years ago these two humans lived on the planet. They disobeyed God, and now he is pissed. So, if you do not want to burn in hell, then you better believe in him. God is angry, jealous, and insanely out of control. He also wants everyone's attention. Blah, blah, blah."
The problem I have is when people start saying that God and love go hand in hand.
R
testing of ones faith is never out of the question.
ihayaydin,
What is up with all of these tests? Really.
"People, I will allow you to suffer. I will allow you to be beat down. I will allow horrible things to happen to you and your loved ones. You must never stop believing in me or you will burn in hell. I don't care that I created you with emotions and intelligence to ask what the point is of all of this meaninglessness. You must believe in me no matter what or you will burn in hell. Sure, you can question authority when it deals with other humans. You can question your parents and teachers and government, but you cannot question me no matter how absurd your existence is. Believe in me or burn in hell for eternity." Really?
Can I just leave the exam room?
R
ElSeductor
what do you discuss?? you dont have to believe,but you have to put up with its result, your not believing does not concern me, go on thinking of yourself as nothing, we were born and will die one day , immortal life waits for us, you can ask this question God when you go to hell. the first question that you will be asked "who is creator? good luck
Two reasons: First, people want to believe that there is a point, meaning and purpose to life and that it isn't meaningless; second, people don't want to feel alone. When one is physically alone, one can not feel alone if one believes a god is watching and "with" you. Having lost my father a few years ago, I know what it's like to feel alone, to be the one who has to be the leader, the one to whom is deferred, rather than defers.
For me, though, knowing that I am metaphysically alone and that death will indeed be the end makes my short time on Earth much sweeter. Our time is finite, so it is imperative that I make the most of my time, and every day show my wife and kids and everyone else that I love them.
So why the hell am I wasting my life on Hub Pages?
twosheds1,
LOL!!! Excellent! I too lost my father when I was young. Even though most people were constantly telling me, "God works in mysterious ways. God knows why he does things. Blah, blah, blah.", none of these empty statements ever satisfied me. At the end of the day, my dad was gone. Period. All of those statements came across to me as though people were telling me, "It's too bad you lost your tooth. At least, in the morning, you will find $1 under your pillow if you place your tooth there." Oh joy. There is $1, but I still need to eat with one less tooth.
Like the story of the tooth fairy, the various religious stories related to God seem to have the purpose of providing comfort to an otherwise, seemingly lonely existence. "We can't be alone in the universe. Life cannot be meaningless." We are, and it is.
Let's focus on what we can measure. We can measure the distances between the stars. We can quantify volts, current, and power. We can intelligently deduce that we are alone, at the very least, in our galaxy.
R
The fact that in millennia of searching no one has found reasonable evidence of the afterlife is empirical evidence that there isn’t one.I'm reminded of when we left my son alone for the day for the first time when he was on summer break. He called me and said "I'm hungry." I replied, so, make yourself something to eat!" He'd have gotten pretty hungry if he waited for us to make him something.
We're alone in the Universe?
The hell are you on about? Have you seen the hubble deep-field images? You really think that in all those galaxies, all those stars, all those planets, there aren't other intelligent lifeforms? I mean sure for now we seem alone but we haven't explored enough of the Universe, or learned enough, to claim that we are alone and there are absolutely no gods. Such certainty is arrogant.
As for death being the end, if you really don't understand WHY people choose to deny that and believe in afterlives then perhaps you aren't even human. The prospect of non-existence, of all our thoughts, feelings desires and dreams vanishing into simply nothing isn't exactly IDEAL. It may be the reality we are forced to face in the end but the fantasies of life beyond life are very tempting to many for OBVIOUS reasons.
I think I replied to the very same post with the very same response, but unfortunately for me you have a gift for words that I do not. Please use your gift, and by gift I'm not inferring it is a gift from anyone but your parents.
Titen-Sxull,
Ah, thanks for the last sentences. There is nothing wrong with fantasies until they lead to murder, suicide, abuse, poverty, over population, etc.
R
I think he means alone in a metaphysical sense. Of course we're not alone, there are 7 billion people on this planet, but in the sense of an omniscient, omnipresent being who watches over us at every moment, we are alone. We are the makers of our own destinies.
By believing that there is no God once has to face the reality that after death there may be nothing. This means never seeing loved ones again. This means believing that once your loved one dies, you will never see him or her again. That can be a hard thing to face, which is why people want to believe in life after death. They want to believe they can reconnect with their loved ones once again in the afterlife. It's a nice thought and, even if you don't believe in God, you cannot prove his/her existence or non-existence. No one actually knows what happens when you die except for the people that are dead (and I'm not including people who have had near-death experiences and have claimed to have seen Jesus after they died.)
Ecclesiastes 1.
"Everything is meaningless."
R
I do not know why YOU are so afraid to accept God... Perhaps you might figure it out some day if you keep working on it. Self analytically help is sometimes the best therapy.
For many people, there just isn't any logical reason to "accept god." Especially since there are so many gods to pick from. How can one possibly know which is the correct set of myths to commit to? If you pick wrong, you still burn in hell or whatever its equivalent is.
Perhaps, this comparison will help you to understand...
We are as afraid to accept God as you are afraid to accept Islam.
"Accepting Islam" is as easy as saying ~Please Dont Kill Me.. Ill worship your God if that is what you want..." and then repeating whatever it is they are using for a recruitment phrase..
Accepting Christ on the other hand is a little more difficult.. its actually between you and God himself... and is a life long commitment.
Uh, no one is pointing a gun your head.
The same can be said about Islam. In other words, there is no fear in not accepting your god or any other god. I'm sure you have no fear in not accepting Zeus or Thor as your god, yes?
Does the point further elude you?
Deleted
MrMaranatha,
I am not afraid to accept God. I gew up as a Catholic. Then, I became a Baptist Christian. As a young child I could see how absurd the Catholic religion is. How silly is it for a bunch of grown men to be dressed up in foolish costumes all kissing each others' hands? What ever happened to the whole "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." commandment? The pope is treated as a God by all of the Catholic people. The Catholic church should be disbanded and all of their lands should be nationalized and turned in to parks.
After being a Baptist Christian for a while I realized that as much as I wanted to believe in God, there is no God.
Sometimes I wish there was a god. That way we would have somebody to blame for all of the horrors that take place every day on this planet.
R
I've thought about this for a long time. I think that it's difficult for many to accept that their lives are meaningless in the great scheme of things. It's quite hard work to find meaning for one's own life. There are several other reasons so I'm just going to list them.
a) Difficult to accept there is no overall meaning to one's life.
b) Deep need for there to be some form of social justice. So God serves the purpose of rewarding personal good and punishing the people who hurt one.
c) Lack of control of one's own life if big events come that one has no control over - earthquakes, disease, etc. If one believes in a God, then God can intervene if s/he is your friend.
d) Fear and despair that when one's life ends, there is nothing more. This is especially horrific if one has not lived a full life, or a life as full as one would have wanted.
e) The need to believe that there is hope when all about it doesn't look very hopeful. If God can intervene, then there is hope for situations to change.
f) An easy explanation to accept for things one doesn't understand. Thinking is hard work!
Essentially, it takes a lot more courage to face these issues and be at peace with them than to accept that there is a God who will take care of it all.
That's very profoud, Sophia. Very well done.
Sophia Angelique,
Beautifully stated! Sometimes I wonder if the world would be a better place if everyone just accepted all of those things that you stated. One thing is for sure. We wouldn't be killing each other over a fairy tail. That sounds like a great place to start.
R
If God does not exist, then why did you come here to enlighten us?
There is no G-d for atheists. They are born without souls so are just 'male and female created he them'. There is no reason for them to believe in what they have no part of.
Perhaps, that is the trade-off of being born with brains and having the capacity to use them, too.
I hope that was a poor attempt at a joke because if it wasn't......man. That's just sad to think there is an individual out there who would believe such as that.
Since souls have never been shown to exist, his claim is moot.
Qeyler, just curious. I'm an atheist. How do you define souls? Sure we have a life force that gives life to us. That's apparent to everybody. What exactly is a soul? How does it differ from a life force? How does a 'soul' prove the existence of a God that personally cares for one?
@A Troubled Man - in your case it is probably soul-less and brainless
Sophia; you have no G-d. You have nothing to think about. You have no soul. Nothing to worry about. That's you.
qeyler, it is a fact of life that people who make ad hominem attacks do so because when they don't have an adequate answer, they attack the person.
I notice you've written about I.Q. and E.Q. Apart from the fact that you don't appear to know the difference between Emotional Intelligence and Social intelligence (you should read Daniel Goleman sometime), you got your definition of I.Q. right.
So... did you know that the people - per capita - with the highest I.Q.s in the world are atheists, that the next in line are agnostics, and that religious people are right at the bottom in terms of intelligence...
So, I guess if I have no soul, you don't have much in the line of intelligence.
Q.E.D. And if you aren't educated enough to know what that means, it stands for Quod Est Demonstratum.
Don't respond to trolls and they go away. You have to just ignore their remarks, no matter how malicious or how strategically inflammatory. Any acknowledgement of their presence is exactly what they want. (Yes, me saying this tosses some kibbles into the craw of the creature, but I thought it best to try to get ahead of it before it stirs everyone up. It's got a very nice angle for a troll, which is highly likely to suck in folks who aren't watching closely.)
No, I'm not a Troll. I have cut away all the frills of the argument. You have on one side the Xian posse and on the other side the Atheists. There are a hundred threads carrying this debate on and on.
The point is there is absolutely no reason for a Xian and an Atheist to argue over anything.
The thing I find remarkable is the advocacy of atheism but feeling upset if someone should suggest one has no soul. What use is a Soul for an Atheist? What would that soul be connected to? Where would that Soul go when the Atheist dies?
qyeler,
What use is a Soul for an Atheist? A soul is passion, passion for life, passion for love, passion for work, passion for art, passion for music, passion for standing up against ignorance, passion to fight for the well being of everyone on the planet, etc.
What would that soul be connected to? Passion is everywhere.
Where would that Soul go when the Atheist dies? What happens to fire when you put it out? Who cares? All that matters is that it burned.
R
Geyler...
Your Quote: "The thing I find remarkable is the advocacy of atheism but feeling upset if someone should suggest one has no soul. What use is a Soul for an Atheist? What would that soul be connected to? Where would that Soul go when the Atheist dies?"
Let me be quite clear here. I am not in the least upset. I'm amused that anyone is so willing to expose their own ignorance in such a public place. That's why I have asked you for chapter and verse - so that you can expose your own ignorance...
You have not given me chapter and verse. Why? Because there isn't one.
Nor have you shown me where you get this doctrine from? Why? Certainly none of the church fathers ever taught it.
Upset? Absolutely not. Just incredibly amused that someone can reveal himself to be so incredibly ignorant and have no problem showing it.
But then the old saying is fools rush in where angels fear to tread...
Sophie, you said you were an atheist. This means you do believe there is no Higher Being, no Heaven, no Life After Death. That is what atheist means. Hence, for you, there is no G-d, for you there is no soul, for you there is no afterlife. That it what it means to be an Atheist.
The whole idea of 'soul' is that which is a connection to a Higher Being. What use is a soul to an Atheist?
YOUR QUOTE: "The whole idea of 'soul' is that which is a connection to a Higher Being. What use is a soul to an Atheist?"
Please give me the chapter and verse in the bible where it says exactly that God created some people with souls and other people without souls?
Just for the record...
a) I went to a church school where I went to chapel in the morning, chapel in the evening and morning service and evening service on Sundays. I was baptized and confirmed in the church. I had a lot of religious teaching during my years at school.
b) I spent ten long years as a born-again Christian between the ages of 25 and 35. During that time, I once read the bible from Genesis Chapter One through to Revelations 22 eighteen times in eighteen months. And, in those days, i had a pretty good memory. You could quote a verse and I could tell you exactly where it was - more or less - in the bible.
c) In addition, I read and studied the bible about two or three hours each day for a full decade;
d) I prayed on my knees another two or three hours each day. I recall one guy saying to me that in church service he could see I was the only one really praying.
e) I attended church twice on Sundays, prayer meetings once or twice a week, plus various bible studies.
f) I had no time for anything other than God and work. I had no social life during that period.
g) In the last few years of my attending church, because there were so many contradictions in the bible, and because the various pastors, priests, and ministers couldn't answer them, I started studying the secular history of the church. To my consternation, I found that the church is mostly built on a bunch of lies, myths, and misinformation. In fact, there are thousands of bible before print that contradict each other. The most accurate and closest to the early church is the Greek Orthodox bible - which, of course, contradicts the kind of Christianity taught in America (a fairly modern incarnation).
h) After I left the church with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a result of the ignorance and evil of people in the church, I started studying other things because I have always been able to feel a life force. Some people would call me mediumistic or a mystic. The shamans of Africa tell me I have tremendous power. Men in England used to tell me I was 'overwhelmingly powerful.' Just the energy emanating from me. I needed answers for much of my experience that had led me believe there was a God, and which I discovered the hard way, there wasn't.
i) I eventually converted to Judaism (my late father was Jewish). I was quite open with the Rabbi that I had no belief in God. Unusually, for whatever reason, I was permitted 'on the Bimah' throughout my conversion period (a year) while none of the other converts were. Immediately after that, I was elected to the committee of the synagogue (the most wealthy synagogue in the country). Again, it is highly unusual for someone who has just been converted to be elected to the committee as it is generally people who have served in synagogues for decades. Why? My knowledge of Torah and spiritual law was considered rare. That has also been confirmed by various Christian ministers who hold doctorates.
j) One of the advantages of converting to Judaism is that one has to learn Hebrew. I was able to read Torah in Hebrew (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deut. & Numbers). It is quite different to how the Christian bible is interpreted. That goes for Isaiah as well.
So now, let's talk, Geyler.
You said, as an atheist, I have no soul. I want the chapter and verse in the bible.
Sophia, very interesting, but I think you may have missed the point. What I think he/she was saying is that as an atheist you should think we have no soul as a soul is a link to God. Without God you have no link. He/she most likely think all people have souls, while atheists think we don't.
That being said, I am curious as to why you would join Judaism if you feel there is no God at all. Do you like the belonging feeling? Why would you join another Religion that is just as fraudulent as the last? And why spend so much time and energy reading the Torah if deep down inside you think you feel the entire premiss of the book is fraudulent?
I have a Jewish culture. Jews don't really accept one unless one is Jewish. It was a side of myself that I wanted to explore. It was mandatory to read the Torah in order to convert. It was helpful that I already pretty much knew the bible backwards and sideways anyway, so apart from learning the Hebrew, it wasn't as difficult for me as it was for others who were converting.
I need to work through my Jewish part in order to explore more of my identity. I had explored my Christian identity thoroughly.
One cannot call ones self Christian if they do not believe in God. One cannot call themselves Jewish if they do not believe in God. Being Christian or Jewish is being of a certain religion, but a particular culture. I was raised as a Christian, but that does not make me Christian. If you feel you need to explore your fathers culture, find out where he came from and explore that culture. But, pretending to be Jewish is being dishonest to those around you and to yourself.
No, Rad Man, I did not miss the point. I think you did.
My point is that nowhere in the Christian bible is it taught that people who aren't connected to God don't have a soul.
That isn't part of Catholic doctrine, Protestant doctrine, Armenian doctrine, Pentecostal doctrine, Greek Orthodox doctrine, or any of the myriad Christian doctrines on this earth. It's also not in the bible.
So wherever he got the idea that people who don't believe in God don't have souls, it' s complete and utter baloney.
Okay, perhaps I didn't explain it very well. Christians say we all have souls, but atheists say we can't have a soul because there is nothing spiritual about us. There he/she was saying if you are an atheist you must think we have no soul, because if you think you have a soul you must believe in some kind of high being (God).
So by your logic, q, if atheists suddenly saw the light and were born again, they would suddenly be given souls? If a Xtian became an atheist, would he lose his soul? How would you regain it? Soul food? Does god keep your soul in escrow in case you come back?
qeyler,
"What good is a soul to an atheist?" You have obviously never listened to music. Soul is passion.
R
And as an addenda; what does 'soul' have to do with Intelligence? Are you sure you are an Atheist?
Agree with you. There is no G-d for atheists
God exists, and he loves you very much. Start reading the Message (New Testament) so you can learn everything about Jesus.
YOUR QUOTE: "The whole idea of 'soul' is that which is a connection to a Higher Being. What use is a soul to an Atheist?"
Please give me the chapter and verse in the bible where it says exactly that God created some people with souls and other people without souls?
wow right on dude..i find that it is weak minded people that have to have god in there life..
Why does anyone need to believe anything? Why do you need to believe we are alone in this eternal, dark and cold universe? If I was going to choose something to believe, I'm not sure that would be my first choice. Why can't you accept reality? There are more possibilities than the one you chose to believe in.
I kind of agree with the rest.
It is not that I am choosing to believe that we are alone in the universe. As far as science has been able to tell, we are alone. The universe has been around for a very long time. In that time, no other life forms, that we know of, have come to Earth. Also, for as long as we have been sending signals out into space with the hope of getting a response from other life forms, we have yet to find life.
The recent landing of the Mars rover, Curiosity, is exciting. The mission is find life, any evidence of life. Until that happens, we are alone.
R
That is your belief. You are welcome to it. I disagree.
I read an article the other day that said scientists believe life on earth developed more quickly than makes sense, with what we know. They believe that the chances of life on any planet in the universe having developed to the stage we have is unlikely. But, that is some scientists.
Stop believing everything you hear. They are possibilities. Nothing more. I think it is rather exciting that we have more to discover than we already know. I've often wondered what causes people to jump to conclusions. Especially conclusions as dismal as the beliefs you claim to hold.
Emile R,
I like your fiery spirit!
Believing or not believing does not change what is or isn't. 1 billion people can believe that there is this righteous being out there who created us and is watching everything we are doing. The same amount of people can also believe that there is this evil being who brings corruption and suffering to everyone. Only believing in the good being will save us from the evil being. That's a nice story, but believing it doesn't make it true.
We can conduct 1 billion experiments, and if each time we arrive at the same conclusion, then the conclusion becomes valid. The difference is that there is nothing to believe. The conclusion simply is, whether we like it or not and whether we believe it or not.
R
do you see what your saying? it is a belief that is all !!
Who is afraid? We just don't want to or choose to buy into that argument.
Interesting choice of words. You "just don't want or choose to buy into that argument." Of course you don't want to. It's more fun to think you will live for eternity in heaven. Reality sucks, but I think it's better than a delusion. It was a bitter pill to swallow when one realizes the is no Santa, and it's a bigger pill to swallow when you realize your parents have been lying to you about Santa. If you were lied to about Santa what else were you lied to about? The tooth fairy? The Easter Bunny? Then here you are as an adult and still clinging to the delusion of a God. You've been lied to again, but this one is harder to deny because it comes with baggage. It makes you feel better about dyeing, which we all have to do. A bite from the tree of knowledge is bitter sweet because reality can be painful, but at least your not living your life for a future that does not exist.
Rad Man,
Excellent response. You said it. It definitely is more comforting to believe that once we die we will go to this special place and live forever in peace and harmony.
Like you, I believe that facing the truth is better than living a fantasy. How many religions have come about on this planet because of false beliefs? When you think of how these religions got started, it is amazing that we have let go of Santa and not religions. Let's take a look at some of these beliefs:
Catholics/Christians: God made Adam. Then he made Eve using one of Adam's ribs. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and now we are all suffering.
Mormons: An angel came and spoke to Joseph Smith. The angel gave him some gold tablets containing the rest of the bible. Of course, nobody can see those tablets.
Islam/Muslim: The prophet Mohammed was taken into heaven, or something like that, and given holy scriptures.
These stories seem far fetched. Yet, humans believe this stuff to the point of killing others who do not agree with them. Why don't we look at what we do know. We know that the universe is vast. We know that in our lifetime we will not reach other galaxies. As far as we can tell, there is no life in our galaxy.
Let's stop being afraid, and let's accept that death is the end of what we know to be life. Where were you before you were born? That's exactly where we're going when we die.
R
You are one dreary fellow. No wonder studies show a higher suicide rate among atheists. Lighten up. The beliefs of the religious are no more far fetched than your own. Anyone who believes they know anything on a cosmic scale is deluding themselves.
Emile R,
I disagree that I am "dreary". If you read my profile page you will quickly learn that I live quite an exciting life.
The difference between science and religion is that you do not see scientists killing other people because they do not believe that electrons are real.
I wouldn't have a problem with religion if it didn't cause all of the problems that it causes (e.g. over population, murder, suicide, famine, poverty, abuse, ignorance, etc.)
R
I wouldn't have a problem with extreme anti religion atheism if it wasn't a pie in the sky philosophy. If religion causes all of those problems I would think nations who attempted to forcibly stamp out religion wouldn't have suffered from any of the maladies you listed. Sadly, I think history proves otherwise.
Scientists don't kill? They just invent bombs and every other way to kill. How many did the A-Bomb kill? It was invented for the sole purpose of killing, so don't be spouting that scientists don't kill. They have had their hand in far more killing than religious people have and it only takes one of them to kill a million or more.
If you aren't going to read what I post, it would make sense not to post a reply. What are you blathering about?
Did a scientist order the A-Bomb dropped? Wasn't Harry Truman a Southern Baptist?
If you have such a hatred of scientists and what they've provided us, why are you not living in a cave? Why are you using a computer and internet connection? Did you ever visit a doctor? How about everything else you rely on to live your life?
All of these things were a result of a scientist working diligently.
Emile R,
It helps to give specific examples.
Here is an example of how religion, namely the Catholic church creates the following "maladies":
That catholic church states that it is a sin to use contraceptives. As a result, third world countries produce more children than they can afford to feed. Too many mouths to feed leads to poverty and famine. Poverty often leads to criminal activities which often involve murder. Poverty and its conditions also lead to suicide. When people are poor and worrying about what to eat, they rarely focus on educating themselves which leads to ignorance.
R
A look at what we do know:
ElSeductor wrote: We know that the universe is vast.
Me: Correct.
ElSeductor wrote: We know that in our lifetime we will not reach other galaxies.
Me: We won't even reach another star let alone galaxy. We will reach them with technology. With various kinds of telescopes.
ElSeductor wrote: As far as we can tell, there is no life in our galaxy.
Me: Most likely there is other life in our galaxy, we could even find life in our solar system, but it won't be intelligent. But with the number of star in our Galaxy and the number of planets around the stars the odds are there is lots and lots of life out there. These stars and planets are however way to far for us to visit. We could however detect there radio signals.
Xenonlit,
It is not an argument. It is truth. The truth is that Santa Clause doesn't exist. There is no argument, because it is the truth. The same is true for God. There is no God, so there is no argument.
i will say this .. dopamine!! with out it there is nothing our brains make this chemical it gives us the ability to get out of bed in the morning to seek work a women or a man for pleasure to go do things with our friends.. there is no god .. wake the fuck up people!! where is your hart? in your chest? is thaT WERE YOUR SOUL IS ? i can keep you alive and thinking with out a body..
you are all victims of your own minds.. people are so stupid.. wtf you think got you your fucking car? home? job? bank account? god? fuck no!! your all fucking hypocrites ..
It is the very existence of wrong that proves God is there.
All of the universe operates without a deceptive action one. But point your observation to this earth and all of a sudden the information is corrupt, and things said are not true?
That is called destructive material in data terms. The rest of the universe has no negative aspects of deception. The communication between every medium in the universe, apart from life on earth, is truthful in every manner.
Now take a look at our corrupt earth. The corruption came from somewhere. If that isn't obvious to you I'd being writing a 900 word post to try to spell it out.
There are systems in the universe that operate perfectly, and the data and "communication" contains no flaws. There are systems here on earth that exist as well and the data is never perfect and the communication is always flawed.
There is not one good use for a lie. If people were always truthful and loved each other we would have no problems. Deceit and greed cause corruption and hatred. It is not natural...
If you think it is natural then you didn't fight in a war and walk the front line.
God is there, I know He is, and He is reading the words you type and the thoughts you think.
And Santa is another lie made up as well, giving a good example that lies are useless and that analogy proves nothing concerning God besides the point I've been making from the beginning of this post.
vector 7,
You say that deception and lies are not "natural". That is not an accurate statement. There are creatures here on Earth, besides humans, that practice deception all the time.
For example, there are sea creatures that mislead (deceive) their prey in order to eat them. Deception is a natural part of life. Or are you suggesting that Satan has corrupted sea creatures?
You also said that you know God is hear reading every word I type. Why isn't he instead looking after innocent children who die every day of hunger. In my opinion, getting those children some food is much more important than what I am typing on this blog.
R
In your last paragraph you responded to someones comment about God reading what you're typing. It wasn't me who said this, but I'd like to weigh in on your response.
It is possible that God is reading what you're typing, since he lives in our spirit. And there are good people working through the holy spirit who chose to help those in need. That would mean that God is helping.
You'll have to take that up with God sir, in the meantime lets get back to the main subject shall we?
You are comparing human behaviour to the behaviour of animals to attempt to naturalise what happens. But the thing is you are looking from a different place to begin with.
If you look from a "no God" perspective your analogy works fine.
If you look from a "there is a God" perspective then it does not.
For the "there is a God" perspective we have the Bible because it is unprecedented and I'll not bicker about that, that is understood by the finest minds in history.
In the beginning, animals did not eat each other and vegetation provided food for all living animals. Humans didn't die because they weren't imperfect, and you didn't need to kill any breathing animals in the garden of Eden to eat, there were more fruits and veggies to eat than one can imagine I'm sure.
If God plants a garden, you can bet it's better than the crap you've seen on tv or even walked through.
So how natural is it to kill? And lie? And steal?
Would a perfect being deceive someone? How can perfection include deceit? When deceit brings about misunderstanding, and confusion? And confusion brings about chaos and destruction?
It's not natural. It is of a common occurance today, and that is what you are observing and setting the standard by. But this day and time is not when the standard for "natural" was set in place, that was done in the beginning.
vector7,
Going back to the bible for a second. Why doesn't it address dinosaurs? Shadesbreath might like to chime in right about now.
R
It does in the book of Job indirectly, but other than that why would it? It doesn't name off hundreds of animals that exist or existed but we don't question the Bible over them.
The accounts I mention are often shunned off as some "other" animal and they attempt to make it sound "believable" or to make it fit their needs.
The fact remains though that descriptions such as a "tail like a cedar" (paraphrasing here) do not fit any animal in the world save those of massive proportions, namely, dinosaurs.
If you search the internet you will also find that bones have been found with marrow and blood cells still in tack.
This resolves the debate and people try to pick it apart and make the discoveries match what they like, but the fact remains dinosaurs are not, and never were millions of years old. The earth is not millions of years old either, and evolution is not true.
The evolution they've shown in bacteria is "loss" of traits, not gaining them which is what makes them immune to certain medications. The bacteria have not evolved, they in essence got their hands cut off and thus can't be handcuffed any longer for a relevant simple analogy.
The facts line up concerning the Bible, but the truth isn't popular, and being a Christian isn't easy because people feel God caused all the pain they feel. The subject is deep, complex, and full of ranges of perceptions and lifestyles. But the end conclusion is, and always will be, the same...
God exists, and it's not easy to see because this world is an ocean of deceit and lies and to find the truth it takes work to sort out the falsehoods.
God works in mysterious ways, and I for one wish I had better ways of explaining them because I know He is there.
If the Flintstones is really a documentary as creationists believe, why is it that people were not wiped out by T-Rex and velociraptor? Why don't dinosaurs appear on cave paintings instead of deer and buffalo? Why don't the world's disparate cultures describe them in detail? How can you credibly point at "tail like a cedar" and say that single phrases nullifies evolution and validates creationism. And if these claims of dino bones still containing marrow and blood cells were true, why has Christendom not submitted them to independent genetic testing with at least three renowned labs with a reputation for integrity and objectivity.
Do you really believe that the world is not old and a few thousand years ago man walk side by side with dinosaurs. Really?
When every bit of evidence ever collected says dinosaurs haven't been around for millions of years. No evidence has ever been dated to a few thousand years ago. None, ever. Science cares not for religion so it has no reason to lie. All the various kinds of dating and they all date way way back. No modern humans have been dated back before 200,000 years. Ever.
But because you have a book that is a few thousand years and says the world is only a few thousand years old, you'll go with what the book says.
Someone needs a reality check.
In the really old days, a month was called a year. Who knows maybe a day was, so you have to remember how people thought and talked in the times these things were written down.
Also, "Tall like a cedar" could mean what a cedar grew to at that time or even giraffes.I believe in God and I believe in evolution also.
If you remember your bible correctly, when Cain killed Abel, Cain was sent to live among the Gentiles. Who were the Gentiles? My personal belief is that the Gentiles were humans that evolved, Adam and Eve were the first to know God. It is illogical to believe that Adam and Eve spawned every human today. Wouldn't we all be a bunch of deformed idiots? Of course maybe we are compared to them. The bible is a guide to live by. It does not apply the same to everyone, everywhere, the same.
vector7,
"God works in mysterious ways...." is generally the answer given when people cannot explain God and his actions.
R
Way too many holes in that argument. To deal with them all would require a reply longer than anyone would read or than I care to write. You opened up the debate, you can work through that sort of thing if you like.
Shadesbreath,
"Way too many holes in that argument." Just say, "I don't know."
R
The Bible doesn't address a lot of things. Was the point of the various books to address everything under the sun? I thought it was a book attempting to detail God's interaction with Man, and Man's reaction to that interaction. I suppose if Man had been avoiding the T Rex about that time the T Rex would have been mentioned.
Genesis was meant to be nothing more than a broad stroke synopsis of history prior to the time of Moses. Highlighting only the points the writers considered important to the relationship they believed existed between God and their line of Man.
ElSeductor,
I looked at your page, and I believe I'm mistaken in calling your sir. Forgive the mistake if it was incorrect.
How can you dis-credit so many first hand accounts of the after-life? So, you think you can dis-prove this? Oh, that's cool too. But, if it happened to you or someone close to, would you be as quick to try to prove that there is no heaven or hell?
Some of the most popular scientists in the world didn't think we were alone in this universe or any other. If there is no God then you are essentially saying there is no creator. We didn't come from nothing. And as sure as there is a source for me writing this then I'm pretty certain there is a source that created me too.
We can make the argument that we came from monkeys. But, then we'd have to discuss where monkeys come from. It goes on and on and so does the universe. So, I personally won't make any bold claims saying there is no God. We all have opinions, we just have to back them up with our thoughts and reasons why we come to these conclusions.
ahh!!! the bitter reality is that There will be a Day of Judgment for our rights and wrongs
HE is the ONLY ONe who created all Universe(GOD)
Can you imagine to make a FLY like HIS Creation(Obviously Not)
Thinking out of the box and exploring wonderful universe will definitly lead all to accept the PRESENCE of GOD
Of course you can be wrong with ones own beliefs. Was Mohammad a prophet? The muslims say no and the christians say yes. One or both of them must be wrong. The Christian's say Jesus is the son of God and the Jews say he was not. Both can't be correct. If I say there is no God do you think I am wrong?
I think you have your Muslims and your Christians mixed up.
And that's maybe why the powers 'that be' are laughing at us all.
Certainly, everyone is wrong; it's just a matter of how wrong.
who created this world? he made it beautiful for us at the start of Adam and Eve
and humans just made it filthy with their action
Please read this article I wrote on how to trust God:http://m.voices.yahoo.com/three-basic-steps-trusting-god-guide-non-11670750.html
Sent from my iPhone
Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?
The concept, ideology or the perspective as to whether or not God exists is based on man's limited understanding of life itself. Mankind is known to be flawed and constantly make mistakes so unless there is some sort of definitive proof that no deity exist than God remains on the table.
In regards to the question "Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?" Because if man is wrong then the price for not having believed will be far greater than we will ever know.
When believers make statements of faith that are not true in reality in order to support that faith, it is easy to accept there is no God. Believers are Gods worst enemies in that regard.
A Trouble Man,
Without question some believers misrepresent their fate and also make mistakes. The Christian faith however is not placing demands on you or those who think like you to believe, God is only looking for those who willingly trust in the existence of God.
So, you are saying God only looks for the gullible? Sounds like a marketing ploy to me. Do you realize how silly that sounds?
If you don't believe nobody is asking you to!
Oh, I see... you don't want anyone to think for themselves. According to you, God and YOU only look to the gullible. Can you guys all get together, I've got some land in Florida I'd love to sell cheap.
It is my hope that you keep that land in Florida and those who think like you all come together and occupy that land and stop worrying about us believers.
Stop worrying about you believers? I don't think we knock on your doors as you do ours.
Am curious, Rad, and please be 100% honest.
When is/was the precise "last time" a "believer" knocked on your door?
James.
Every couple of weeks, sometimes on the weekends, sometimes on the weekdays. Usually, it's the Jehovah's telling me Christianity is all lies and then later on the Christians show up to confirm.
Honestly about 5 months ago. The Jehovah's are pretty good at bringing a kid along so I'll be on my best behaviour. Hiding behind a child. Now when was the last time an atheist knocked on your door and tried to make you see the light?
So based on these few incidents of people taking time out of your life people like you feel justified in the vilifying all other people's religion?
That sounds juvenile if you ask me.
Accurate memo window of a witness came to my door and many times took up more time than I wanted to give but I didn't condemn their religion because of it how absolutely petty some of us have become.
I agree and using that premise I should be against cable ,since they knock on my door every 8weeks or so ...
Eaglekiwi,
At least the cable company is selling you something real.
R
SpanStar,
I have no problem villifying religious people when they crash airplanes into buildings, when they rape young boys who trust them, and when they spew ignorance. Knocking on my door at 9am on a Saturday after a night of partying is very annoying.
R
So what I take from your statement is Chris just don't make the mistake in life or you will be labeled and persecuted from now until forever. Nonbelievers please feel free to rape, murder, lie, steal, etc. WHAT-you're saying you didn't know that some nonbelievers do the SAME EVIL that some believers do?
SpanStar,
You have misunderstood my statement completely.
R
SpanStar,
We will stop worrying about believers when your religions stop causing so much suffering on this planet. Perhaps it is the believers who should go live on that land with their ignorance, poverty, abuse, murder, suicide, and famine and leave the rest of us alone to live in peace.
R
I believe one will find more nonbelievers in the daily practice of criticizing believers hub pages, articles then you will find believers criticizing nonbelievers hub pages, articles if nonbelievers have even created any so your perspective on who is bothering whom seems to be wrong.
SpanStar,
You have obviously never been visited by Jehova's Witnesses or Mormon and Christian missionaries.
R
SpanStar,
He is also saying that everyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell. I often wonder if people who say that they believe in God do so out of goodness or out of the fear that they will burn in hell forever. If there was a God, then even he knows that humans must be threatened in order to behave themselves.
R
I really appreciate the author of this post because of your heart behind it. You're right we shouldn't need fantasy of hell to do right. We should just do right. I didn't believe in God totally until I studied the bible, the standard Bible. From the bible I was able to see the past in the present. Also I realized that faith is not attainable by common sense, it's spiritual. I would like every none believer to study the bible and randomly pray that the truth about life be revealed through his word .
I agree with a lot of this. Goodness is the essence of it. I think that the Bible has in it many useful ideas about how to find inner peace. There is fabulous wisdom in it (if you can get past the barbaric stuff, obviously). You can find the same sort of insight in many of the world religions, even the older ones that aren't popular anymore, in particular Greek and Roman mythology (which had significant impact on the Bible). The stories cover the same issues. In the end, happiness is about doing right. It's about honor and compassion and humility. It's about doing good things for others. Too many people get caught up in fighting over which religion is "right" and they miss the whole point of why the religion exists.
Idiyatu Akande,
I studied the bible for many years. I admit that there is great wisdom in the bible. There is also great wisdom in plenty of other books that have nothing to do with religion. At the end of the day, I think we'd all be better off if we adhered to the wisdom in the bible without the whole God thing.
R
It's interesting. To accept that there is no God (from what I understand of your OP) is to accept that there is no meaning to life.
That it begins from nothing and ends into the same.
So, every human being in the world is a meaningless collection of cells with absolutely no purpose whatsoever?
I bet you children don't think their parents' lives are meaningless. I bet families full of people who love each other, sacrifice for each other, learn from each other while learning HOW to learn from others, who help others around them who are less fortunate - all think that life is meaningless.
Why does a life without God have to be meaningless and moving toward a final nothingness?
If that's what you truly believe life is, it's no wonder you can't conceive of a God. But, I know others who don't believe that God exists who also believe that their lives are full of meaning.
Maybe that's why people can't accept that there is no God. Maybe we believe in God because we believe in (and see around us constantly) an inherent meaning and purpose in our lives - not because we're searching for those things.
Maybe I'm just betting on the Big Guy because he's someone I will someday be able to thank for this wonderful, meaningful life I've led and am living. Maybe you're not because you're convinced that nothing means anything and you don't want to be convinced otherwise because it might force you to take responsibility for a life you've left pretty much un-lived till now.
Just my two cents.
Once again, well said! You've been coming up with some good ones lately.
I would say that was more like a gold dollars worth Motown.
I think everyone believes in God, just some of us call him science.
Thanks, MME! Fact is, many of us simply look for ways to understand our world and our lives. Some of us do so through religion, others through science, but it is a rare soul who doesn't do it at all. It's choosing to have a meaningless life because a meaningful one is too much effort that makes me sad. It does not take a belief in God to have a meaningful life - and, imo, many who don't believe would argue that point vehemently.
.. but are we afraid, really.. ?
is it not a matter of trying to blend in / live in harmony (to some extent) with the believers rather than insisting someone cuts their heads off since we are so tired of hearing the mumbo jumbo they have been speaking for x thousand years...
Drax,
Living in harmony? Have you seen what people in the Middle East are doing to others?
R
I'm not sure people are afraid to believe there is no God. For those of us who believe there is a God, God becomes "real" to us. It is like saying why are you afraid on not believing your husband, wife or kids are not real. It is not a matter of fear it is a matter of our personal reality.
summerberrie,
I do not understand what you mean.
R
This seems like a daft question to me, and I'm an atheist. To the OP, you're asking people to accept what you believe to be the truth. The conclusions that YOU have drawn from your life and your learning, they are not universal, without doubt or proven. When we we all learn some tolerance?
I agree Hollie Thomas. Using our own life experiences to intimidate others into either believing there is a God or that God does not exist is disrespectful and lacks tolerance. Christians' and atheists' core beliefs are in direct opposition to each other, but that does not mean each individual life experience deserves to be valued differently. One should not take precedent over the other. I can not superimpose my faith in God on others. If I attempted to do that all I really am doing is saying my collection of life experiences is superior to yours which is a lie.
I believe in God, but if someone tried to ram it down my throat, I would walk away. I would resist the very thing they want me to believe.
I was taught to teach by actions. I have friends who are atheists. We do not try to convert the each other. Even though I told my one friend that he can't stop me from praying for him. His answer? "Oh I want you to pray for me..... just in case I am wrong."
summerberrie,
Do we tolerate murder? Yet some people, because of their life experiences, end up killing others. Are our life experiences superior to the life experiences of the murderer?
The same goes for religion. Religion is the cause of much suffering on this planet. Why should we tolerate it?
R
Eaglekiwi,
You can believe whatever you want, as long as it doesn't affect the rest of us. Religion affects everyone.
Did you all hear about the Dodgers fans who beat up the Giants fan? There is nothing wrong with being a Dodgers fan. There is, however, something wrong with beating up somebody who doesn't like your team. If Dodgers fans kept popping out babies that they couldn't afford as a direct result of being Dodgers fans, we would all have a problem with that. (They pop out babies like crazy, but it is because they are Catholics.)
R
I hear what you are trying to convey ,but honestly everyone influences someone sometime. It may be due to their religion or lifestyle,or it may be (which is often more the case) the individual.
I accept the truth that much harm has been done in the name of the Church ie God ,but equally important and much less taunted in a forum online is Churches who do good for society,in particular the poor,sick,destitute.
I have also known many Christians who quietly without fanfare work daily to serve their fellowman.So for every person you see or hear beating their chest and playing up for the cameras, there are counter servants who serve humbly and are in line with Christs commandment to 'serve their fellowman' God instructs to do so in humilty and Not to seek glory.
These people are the ones I respect and learn from.
The others -well God said in the Bible ,they have already had their reward here on earth ie Attention and praise. There will not be another.
Now even though some may stand on the sidelines and analyze and perhaps criticize their reasons for doing so ,the action nevertheless is an outreach of their personal faith and benefits the server and the receiver (Also takes the burden of the Government and taxpayer) whom would rather ignore the problems poverty brings..
Just depends on who you are an what you've experienced in life. For you there may not be a higher power or God, for others we know it's very real. Perhaps you're just here at the moment learning the lessons you wanted to and chose your self being the atheist and having that perspective.
Religion makes some feel whole and complete. If it works for them I don't see why they would need to accept any different. Beliefs or lack of should be determined by what makes each person feel right.
"The reality is that we are alone in this eternal, dark, and cold universe"
Like the UFO skeptics say " show me the proof we are alone".
You made a completely non-researched statement. Over 40,000 planets and possibly billions of galaxies. I could go on & on but you'll need the basic 101 class.
ocbill,
As recently as today, we have not found life outside of Earth.
R
It probably as not been disclosed as many in the US govt say it would "destabilize society" http://bit.ly/PaTrDw.
should we just dismiss the testimonies of high ranking military officials from around the world, commercial airline pilots, military pilots, Gov. of Arizona, astronauts, other countries official govts who acknowledge that UFO's exist and extra-terrestrials. I know I sound crazy, (x-file music is gettign louder, etc) Just look into it yourself when you have a few minutes, which will turn into an hour or so. Disclosures and Revelations on Youtube. Hear White House Chief John Podesta request that our secret agency release the info.
That;s all from me. I know I am getting some sighs and eyes rolling over like the news anchors do when they talk about UFOs. It is what it is. Anyway, God can stil exist if there is other life far away as some passages in the Old testament bible disclose this.
God is there..He is omnipresent! We as Homo Sapiens will come and go, but the Supreme Power will be there forever.... Make sure you know all this.
We would be interested in knowing that, if it actually had an inkling of truth behind it. If there is something you know that we don't, please share it with us.
Dear Troubled Man, Why do even wana take the troubles of knowing all this... It's time to do away with all your troubles and change your username, if possible.
As far as the thread is concerned, I am not supposed to teach you philosophy or all that crap for that matter, just to cajole you into believing the Almighty!
Just know the reason for your mere existence in this world... You would know, if there is anything called as "God" !
Why do believers constantly focus on the individual instead of the subject matter? What is the obsession with you folks?
Gibberish.
I can see where your 'user name' came from...
God Bless!
Yes, and I see you are be compelled to insult me personally with my user name and then have the audacity to say "God Bless" - Your God is going to remember that and will judge you accordingly.
How can we know? Without evidence, should we simply make the decision that it is true without actually knowing? Should we believe just because we don't want to die or because we want a father figure? That's not knowing though - it's just believing without evidence.
There is no compulsion....sorry for my last statement "Make sure you know all this"
Many forums and threads have already been created and dumped one after another on HubPages, debating whether God even exists. I wrote what i believe... And what evidence are you talking about? This World and everything taking place here itself is an evidence...
You're right! Thor's mighty hammer will always crush the non-believers!
The Invincible,
I have no problem with you believing this, "God is there..He is omnipresent! We as Homo Sapiens will come and go, but the Supreme Power will be there forever.."
You have every right to believe what you want.
I do, however, have a problem with this, "Make sure you know all this."
Why do we need to make sure we know this? Because if we don't, we will burn in hell?
R
Dear ElSeductor
Hahaha....I realize the last statement shouldn't have been there. Have no clue about who's going to hell or heaven... All I know and believe is something you've already read...
Are we up for any more discussion??
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My friend, do not assume anything by just looking at the religion..
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Or just "Not saved"
Not a Bigot... I think you need a dictionary.
Hey, at least Hindus are honest about the number of God's they pray to. Christians pray to at least three separate Gods and claim there to be only one.
That shows your ignorance of what we believe. The Trinity is ONE.
What it shows is your indoctrination. The trinity is one. The three is one. The three have separate purposes, but is one. Christianity was developed on paganism. How dare you insult a Hindu when you yourself pray to at least three separate personalities.
Gandhi on Christianity, "Oh, I don't reject Christ. I love Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ."
“If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today,”
Actually when Tomas went to India, his works were greatly believed on -in fact, some believed he himself was Moshiach {Jesus} else a very powerful embodiment of one or more of the gods. Most noted was his charity and next his ability to speak to animals.
{Side chuckle: Tomas was one of the first animal whisperer's...}
James.
In fact you just acted in a Bigoted way against me.. Pot calling the Kettle black I guess... eh???
MrMaranatha,
So, you truly believe that everybody who is a non-believer is not saved and is going to hell?
R
Interesting you mention this, diyomarpandan.
Brahman is often misunderstood, as is the Upanishads and even the Vedas as a whole. Has taken me no less than a decade to go through some of it, and is no less than amazing -even just as literature.
I once mentioned that Adam and Atman were essentially the same title of Man. I enjoyed quite a back lashing from some, not all, Christians I spoke to about it and oddly enough many smiles from Hebrews. In my latest re-read, Fritjof Capra, physicist and author of the Tao of Physics, is quoted as saying the Essence is that stuff we view called energy. He has actually proven the unity between all Eastern Philosophies and Principles of Physics, including Judaism. The odd man out is Christianity -as a doctrine- not as a core approach to Creator.
Where he leaves off regarding the S-matrix theory, as well as Heisenberg-Chew, my work picks up largely and goes so far as to say, yes, that Essence is a language, has semiotics and patterns to those vibrations. As if Creator is speaking and his words echoing back at him in the many forms we call physic. Even if they equated to less than 330 million variations, it would explain in greater detail the sum of Hindu entities yet still one Essence expressing them -each and every one.
James.
MrMaranatha,
So if we do not believe in God, then we are lost?
R
I dont think people are afraid of no believing whether or not there's a god, but more of death itself. Of leaving the body and ? Unknown. Faith of whatever kind is a way for people to believe in immortality. Who knows for sure anyway?? There must be some force or intelligence surely.
ElSeductor
I think you are afraid because you know God is there.
You said; the purpose of life is to survive and not harm anyone.(if I say this is your theory,why should I believe)
Can I ask you a question; If there's no God & nothing after death then(if I say) I'll do whatever I want to(good or bad,whatever, I don't care of anything/anyone) & run??I ask you why should I do good/right deeds?(If there is no God, who'll ask me)
Second thing: if we gain knowledge of this world(of everything in it) and the universe then we'll believe that there's someone behind all this...definitely God.
Interesting perspective. It tell me a lot about someone when they say "if there is not God why should I be good". It tell me you lack moral structor. Perhaps you don't have that little voice in your head telling you not to hurt others. As far as I know the only people who don't have that little voice (conscience) psychopaths, sociopaths, and possibly narcissistic people. Do you follow one of these groups? I hope you're getting help.
Incase you are unaware of the statistics. Atheists make up about 17% of the American population, but make up less than 0.1% of the inmate prison population. This striking statistic displays just how moral Atheists are compared to Christians.
Rad Man, You didn't understand my question and talking about irrelevant points.First try to understand, then answer.
mrnasir,
You asked that if there is no God, then why should you do right deeds. The reason is obvious, or should be. If you do wrong deeds, then you will go to prison.
R
Ok if someone is powerful,rich,etc and no one can arrest him then what you say...How we can stop him?
Yes I know him, but I think there are not many examples like this one.
OK ElSeductor. Thanks for your response.
Well I'm sure if we believe in God then we'll find the sayings of God and those sayings will definitely take us to the right deeds/path.
But there are also bad deeds that will not land you in prison. You can just be a dick to people, but dicks tend to be lonely. There's the old saying "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" and it's certainly true. Also, altruistic behavior is instinctive, and appears in most animal species. Animals (including humans) that don't nurture their young or treat others with a modicum of respect don't last long. So, doing the "right deeds" is in our nature.
The fact that you insult people personally here does not equate to doing good deeds, quite the opposite, actually.
This is why I believe that organized religion is a sham. It has even been historically proven to BE nothing more then a means to control and earn money. But there has to be some faith in something, so I believe in a higher diety whether it be mother nature or a "god".
I suppose that would beg the question, why does there have to be faith in something such as a higher deity?
Thank God that I do not have to live within the parameters of your limited perception.
Your premise is rife with assumption. Are you asking a question or is this a guise to denigrate those who don't accept your position as an indisputable axiom? Forgive us our opinions to the contrary.
I think you're mixing up religion with God due to the mention of hell.
Also there is an immediate unethical contradiction in the Forum as it is phrased in numerous questions. This implies you are claiming to know stuff already and have opted out of the correct Q&A format for some reason. If you genuinely don't know something about this huge topic I can help answer genuine ethical questions. However it is clear the numerous questions are not actually questions at all but illogical unethical "non sequitur" arguments which can only lead to further endless online arguments which do not benefit the actual achievment of finding answers.
The HP site was playing up.
I was about to add that when a genuine ethical person asks such questions they are directed to courses of study in the role of student or novice. Sometimes for years of quiet study.
In other words asking a question implies a person does NOT know the answer. It implies the person asking is admitting ignorance on a certain field of knowledge. If upon recieving instruction that student were to refuse learning then what can a teacher do? Put it down to an inability to learn or sheer stubbornness or worse still a low IQ or petulance.
Now, to rephrase the question in an ethical manner it should read "why can't I (the forum questioner) accept that god does not exist". The answer: because every fibre in your being is telling you God does exist. That should be the end of the discussion UNLESS there are other hidden agendas such as propelling arguments and asking non sequitur or illogical "questions".
Or because you want a "father", a god to guide you and protect you, so badly that you can't stand the thought it might not be there. Humanity is well known for such rationalizations: "My child would never do that!" for instance.
It is a reasonable question; "Why do people believe in a god when there is zero evidence of one?", and the most likely answer is that they want it to be true.
I don't think most people even question it. They grow up in a society that believes in God, so they just continue to do so without really thinking about it.
You got it: the thought that He isn't there is unforgivable. He has to be there, so He is.
To add a tug here, which perhaps can be understood..
It is because the conscious mind, meaning the active indulgence of knowledge, cannot comprehend nor experience the existence of Creator. It was not designed to. The brain and it's contents was designed to be a processor not a controller. And, although every fiber of the individual senses an existence -even feels it to a certain degree, the confusion caused by a million-billion threads of information, keeps them in a state of loss.
Contrary to popular belief among both sensationalists and scientists -the byproducts of said indulgence; expressions of the human condition- the Adamic Inception is indeed real. We are all victims of it. Our amnesia/affliction keeps the experience, beyond thought/reason, at bay...
But still, we have to realize, that God is a concept, that describes our mutual interdependance and interrelation as growing human beings. Call it love or what you want. You can make this universe cold or you can make it warm. Whatever you want. When you direct your intention to the universe or God or the sun, you will most likely pick up on some frequencies as a result of directing your attention and intention. Creation is constant, as is change. You have the freedom to create.
Say, there is only now. What then? Everything will always be, as quantum physics adresses. So how do we make order out of this big pile of everything? We create, as the divine and loving beings we are. We make a living. We make politics, sadly most of the time though. We make love. We make music. So God is real in the sense, it's a concept, created to understand our own true nature.
There is a lot of ongoing hypocrisy, when predeterminalistic either empiricalists or fanatic priests passes on judgement to people, they don't know. Leave that up to God to judge. And now people only speak for themselves. No more war; nice. Let's call God; The Future Enlightened You. Now, you are God. You are it. Do you want to be in a cold unloving eternal universe? Fine. Do you want to be in a warm loving eternal universe? Fine. Both are possible. Now it's up to you.
What do you want?
Wow. Blindness reigns. Why are "engineers" ALWAYS prodding at what they can't [obviously] see is a mirage of ENGINEERING GENIUS? Lol its amazing the sheer number of 'accidents' people believe happen... And then think it intelligent that adding more time makes the theory 'accidents engineered everything!' more plausible.
I've never seen such an ignorant and plain stupid sentiment as random accidents creating, engineering, and building ingelligent structures and systems that operate so efficiently, and with such complexity (irreducible at that!), and precisely that not even we [yes, our brillance shunned by trillions of "mistakes" please grasp the sarcasm lol] in all our interconnected world of communicating brains can reproduce them. And even then what we DO have is copied from them.. But then... THEY engineered it all right? pahaha
There is no God in the blind man's world. If you can't calculate the simple logic and crunch the numbers, then well... God will introduce Himself to you in time. Believe me, [or don't ] you'll cross that portal. There is more evidence that God exists than that I exist on the other end of the internet...
Then you have the.. "life is all an illusion, nothing really exists.." lol, i love those guys..
Me: "Please sit right right here, yes sir.. on the coals will be fine, they aren't real it's an illusion like everything else."
Yes, a series of millions of just the right random accidents created your brain. Luckily for you.
Don't forget the billions more that were NOT the right random accidents and were "discarded".
Prove those billions of discards. That is only speculation.
And yet there are several "failed" samples between "Lucy" and us. To think that all random mutations is useful is folly; we know of too many that are not.
How do you know extinct organisms are failures? I see them as stepping stones to advancement and higher complexity.
They're not here, are they? As a stepping stone, they work but as soon as the next "stone" comes along the first one fails.
Failing merely means that the species doesn't reproduce fast enough to survive. So any of the stepping stones are obviously a failure when competing with the next "stone".
What a reply.
Same as always huh.. No rebuttal. Logic got you tongue?
Troll this one too. You'll have a win.. I won't be wasting my time. Tootles.
This entire post could have been avoided by simply asking one of the following questions :
"Why do I despise that which you do not ?"
" Why do I resent that which has made you happy in having quite simply , -faith ?"
" Isn't there anyone else out there that resents religion ?"
" Who are you to believe in a God that I cannot ?"
" If there really is a God why doesn't he single me out to prove it to ?"
should I go on ?
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