What does this verse mean to you Matt 7:6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces
I believe that Jews of the time referred to Gentiles as being dogs and pigs. Even Jesus called the Syro-Phonecian woman a gentle dog before she asked to at least have crumbs from the table. If Jesus is referring to Gentiles it ties up with his statement that he had come for the Lost Sheep of Israel, the inference being he didn't come to the Gentiles.
How so Rad Man? After the resurrection jesus told his disciples to tell the World. This wasn't a change of mind but the next phase in the programme.
You don't think your statement is ironic? "the inference being he didn't come to the Gentiles."
Not at all. He came to reach Israel and after the resurection he began phase 2, the Gentiles. It is normal on complex projects to split them into phases, we do it all the time in work.
Mark 16:9-20 - This section is a later addition and the contained command to make disciples of all nations is full of errors
Mark 16:9-20 has been called a later addition to the Gospel of Mark by most New Testament scholars in the past century. The main reason for doubting the authenticity of the ending is that it does not appear in some of the oldest existing witnesses, and it is reported to be absent from many others in ancient times by early writers of the Church. Moreover, the ending has some stylistic features which also suggest that it came from another hand.
The gospel of Mark (Mk) was the source of the gospel of Matthew (Mt) and Luke (Lk). Lk and Mt were written with the additional part which later was added to Mk. The source (Mk) was subsequently supplemented by their derivatives (Mt, Lk).
Verse from the additional part (Mk 16:15):
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation ..."
See Matthew 28:19:
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ..."
See Luke 24:46:
"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations ..."
The BIG QUESTiON: Why there is nothing mentioned about such statement in the book "Acts of the apostles"?
In the dispute (see Acts 11) among the apostles about the possibility of non-Jews becoming followers of Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, there was not mentioned a single word about a command of Jesus of Nazareth in which he said to them that they should make disciples of all nations. (Compare: Mt 28:16-20 with Acts 11:1-18)
It was only mentioned: "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'" (Acts 11:16)
Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, never gave a command to make disciples of all nations.
Wow, everyone is reviving dead and rotting threads.. lol
You're getting ahead of yourself. Back up, big picture:
Keep the following keywords in mind when reading...
And yes, I am quoting the King James. Hope that clarifies what He didn't say.. (on the record) but certainly implies here. (obviously)
Of course the thread is 2 yo, but it was one of the first google search results and so i wrote a response.
You should also keep in mind:
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Mark 10:18)
You're misunderstanding his statement.. Read the context. He is pointing out that the man is attributing something that belongs to God.. to um obviously Him (Jesus)..
This is another "I am" statement. (though it's obvious you can teeter totter on this one if you wanted)
"18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!"
Just a little context for you. I prefer context.
Notice the end.. Jesus was pointing out that the man called him good, not telling the man he was wrong. At the end in verse 23 Jesus obviously takes on a role that shows this..
He begins telling everyone standing around who is to enter, and who is not to enter the kingdom of God. Do you know who holds that power? God alone, just like only God forgives sin. It's all in the context.
And I wasn't bashing you for reviving the thread. Just thought it funny so many old ones have been brought back up lately.
The point is that Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, is not god, but is a servant of God.
Jesus of Nazareth answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from the One who SENT me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own." (John 7:16-17)
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of Him who SENT me." Jesus of Nazareth (John 5:30)
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who SENT Me." Jesus of Nazareth (John 6:38)
The most people never asked what the Children of Israel really mean with the term "Son of G-d". Because the term "Son of G-d" is not about God having a son, but the phrase was applied to those who kept the covenant and were considered righteous. Like f.e. "Son of Peace" for a man of peace, "Son of Truth" for a man whose words are honest, "Son of Kingdom" for a man who serves the Kingdom and so on. In other words: "Son of G-d" = "the righteous Servant of God"
Since Davidh ben Yishai was King of Israel, the term of "Son of G-d" also was strong associated with the Kings of Israel (see: God's words to King David about David's son Solomon in 2.Samuel 7:12-16).
"Son of God" in the sense of: the righteous servant of God and King of Israel. Not implicating that the one and only God without a second would have a Son or any other personification.
The eternal One is beyond all forms, mind and words, different from the known and above the unknown, beyond the three forms of time, without a beginning the cause of all existence, the eternal being and only one worthy of adoration.
The prophet Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, was called the Messiah and King of Israel. Thus he was called "the Son of God, the King of Israel and Messiah". In other words: "the righteous servant of God, the King of Israel and Messiah".
Of course, there is no trinity or a son the g-d. Also the dispute between Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, and his people was not about that he claimed to be a kind of god, but it was about the circumstance that Jesus of Nazareth was not willing to be appointed as King of Israel by the people and even was hiding himself to avoid it (John 6:15), but later said that he would be indeed the awaited Messiah.
The cause of his strange behaviour became visible in a later dispute with his people about his self-justification:
It was because Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, didn't wanted to kill human beings, but his people wanted a King Messiah (מלך המשיח) and waging war against the enemies of Israel which means killing all Roman intruders and not stop to destroy them until they are completely gone forever.
The Messiah becomes the power to do this from God. If Jesus of Nazareth would have been really the messiah, his people could not understand why he was not ready to start to kill the Roman murderer of innocent people which were even his brothers and sisters.
Thus many Israelites simply made the conclusion that Yeshu ben Yosef me'Nazerath (HY"D) was not the awaited Messiah and they have to wait for him until he will come and brings justice and peace to the world.
Everyone will sooner or later recognize the truth. Believe what you want, it is your decision and only you yourself will ultimately drawn to account for it. Peace.
As if I'm going to accommodate all that babble. I've been at this for over twelve years Mr islam. I know more than you can enlighten me on. (humbly)
Thank you for the attempt though. Enjoy your forum debate.
It simply is a failure to interpret the message of the gospels in a non-Jewish way. Everything in the gospels must be seen in a Jewish context.
The term "Son of G-d" in a Jewish context: "the righteous Servant of God"
The Roman-Graeca interpretation of the term "Son of G-d": "Son the g-d"
Look another example:
"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 13:32)
Please try to understand the simple fact that Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him, is not god. And even if the world is full of liars, at least be honest with yourself.
"Jesus felt pure and calmly thought
Only the One God;
Who made himself to be a god
Offends his holy will."
-- J.W. Goethe
Jesus was born Jewish , he was the promise Messiah .That the Jewish nation known as Isreal then was to keep a look out for his arrival
they were blessed that he would be born through their family tree., but even though he came through their line , his purpose would benifit all human life. He purchased many with his own fleshly life , returned in a spirit body that he had as and Angel, as Michael, But with more Authority then ever before.
We as humans benifit from him giving up his flesh. Because not just those born in the generation he arrived in , but even up to now he covers ours as well,
Jesus died for all humans not one race , not one Generation , but his value can not hold a price tag ,too High !
Even though he came through the Jewish line.
his message and purpose and benifits cover this whole planet earth.
Ac 9:15 But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel
Mt 24:14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The point here is that his disciples were to spread and announce his arrival to the nation of Isreal and later to the Gentiles .
Ac 2:4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
So the what ever was learned in Hebrew and Greek became known to the nations .we all have access to this message.
@Kiss andTales "we all have access to this message."
That's also the reason why everybody should think with the own brain and not blindly follow erroneous pre-made doctrines. God gives us the ability to think, so we should do so.
I don't want to harm any feelings, but the Roman doctrine of trinity is one of the biggest imbecilities which i have ever heard. Everyone can give an answer to the following question by himself:
How would you feel if someone would say about you, that you are a human with three persons as your inmost being ?!?!
Note: From the Catechism of the Roman Catholic church about their dogma of the Trinity:
Unum Deum in Tribus Personis - transl.: One "god" in three persons;
intimitas Eius Esse ut Trinitatis - transl.: "god's" inmost Being as Trinity
Sounds much like a description of a multiple personality disorder. Anyway, such weird concept of multiple personalities has nothing to do with the monotheistic principle and is a respectless insult about the one and only God.
Did anyone said "Pearls ?" Oh, yes, Jesus Christ has some explanation to it, "The kingdom of heaven (kingdom of God ) is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls. Having found one pearl of great value he went away, sold all he had and bought it."(Matt. 13:45).
Suppose, the things pertaining the highest value are only for serious seekers of God's righteousness; not for everybody . The kingdom of God - spiritual eternity = gold's rule in the heart of man.
The pearls you are speaking of is not in the same setting ,
Mt 7:6“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.
Which this means at
Pr 9:7 The one who corrects a ridiculer invites dishonor, And whoever reproves someone wicked will get hurt.
So food for thought is even though you have great value in the tongue and may speak much truth, ridiculers will attack you just because they see no value in your words. But when I speak I know they are there , I really focus on the people who are quite the opposite. Jesus had the same troubles and he set example for us to follow.
We might be speaking the same, (by your admitting). Both those scriptures are well known to me, and I perceive that the "word of God" mainly spoken by Jesus Christ presented in subaudition and all of them have s p i r i t u a l implication. Agree with your cautioning to speak " wisely '' when speaking the spiritual eternal value all the time (not only to strangers), yet using wisdom and the Spirit's guide, we are commanded to do it anyway.
Jesus meant that we are not to give that which is sacred to those who not only blatantly disregard Christ's message, but also takes pleasure in crushing and destroying what was given to them.
Proverbs 26:11- "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a foo, repeats his folly"
2 Peter 2:22- "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."
We know the behavior of swine and dogs. There is not one decent thing they will do with pearls. With that in mind, This scripture presents a fitting analogy using the behaviors of these animals to possibly compare to human beings who are adamantly not receptive of, but rejects truth and Jesus' love. Even Jesus avoided going to certain cities that were full of evil people unwilling to receive or listen to him. He knows hearts, so He is saying, "shake the dust off your feet"and look for better pickings. Sodom and Gomorrah would be swine because the people refused righteousness.
What it means to me is that I shouldn't throw my "stellar" hubs in front of people who are illiterate and can't understand a word. Just a simple example.
Wow He describes exactly what His Father did to Him. I had always just read it as words of wisdom in dealing with those who do not want to learn new ways. People who live by their own understanding and hold that sacred.
But now I see also as a prophecy. The Pharisees are the swine. Christs' loving message the pearl and Christ who they turn on.
I'll bet you 100 bucks that Peter and James did not get it all ;-) But thought He was talking about piggies and doggies.
Religions are based on ignorance, hence the statement was made as an insulting claim of superiority over others who don't share the beliefs. It only serves to show the lack of morals and ethics contained within the religion.
Personally, I believe that we are not to share divine wisdom to those who mock it. Dogs and pigs in my opinion are symbolic for the filth in the hearts of those who mock Christianity. It could range from pharisee, rabbi, another religion and most of all, the determined atheist who relishes the chance to set traps and expose our mishaps when angered by them. Keep in mind, the examples I gave are ones who mock our beliefs, not those who are not Christians yet respect the right for us to believe and leave well alone.
That respect is supposed to go both ways. You're showing a lack of respect and dignity by calling those who don't agree with you pigs or dogs. It shows the ethical growth of a child in a school yard.
Hey, wanna go for a bike ride.
No thanks, I wanna play video games.
You're a pig.
That about sums up the mentality behind those types of comments.
To Mr RD I think no one comes out and call people pigs , That is your statement bluntly. and you can disagree with out name calling , many do on hub pages, but the text used was a symbol to represent the situation of meaning. While your meaning is more vivid ,this is not the case for others.
Example , You save money for a college fund for a student ,say 25000 dollars.
You present it to a student that you feel worthy of your gift. That is that they would appreciate what you have contribute to the cause of education, You feel that they will do something with the gift that will help them for a life time.
Yet a year later you find out that this student is not a student anymore ,he dropped out of class the first year, and he bad mouth you as being stupid for giving him this money anyway, because he squandered it up . So with that thought your attention was in the right of your heart. And you stuck out on a good choice for a deserving student. this student would not be called a pig ,yet that is how he acted ,he did not appreciate valuble things.
Sorry, but your religion offers nothing of value, quite the contrary, in fact.
There you go again telling someone they are acting like a pig because they don't do as you want.
Some people love to argue it does not matter about the word it maters about the meaning ,and in many cases in the example i gave the word was not needed because you get the point. You do not have to name call literal for you to understand that people do not appreciate valuable things .that is the point of text.
Now if you want to be literal with your understanding then you can. But others see it different.
Oh and in the text not just valuable things ,but spiritual things that are referred to as pearls. words here are just symbolic .to understand the meaning of lesson. That is all. Why make more of it .
"Spiritual things" have never been shown to exist, so they can't even be considered the specks of sand required to make a pearl, let alone pearls.
To Mr T M I never expect you to understand ,or want to ,or even try to ,your motive has always been very clear, to tear down, discredit, make people think they are wrong for their believe or faith, and that is all you have to offer because you can not prove anything you say. And maybe that works for you, you keep other people's faith strong ,because many do not want to be like you If you notice I have not change ,and neither have you .
I do not debate you,I do not try to explain to you, and when I do respond I thank you that you have proven the point to the subject,
The presentation of reality in the face of your faith requires no proof from me, reality is the proof unto itself demonstrating faith is little more than wishful thinking producing the same results as happenstance. I am not making anyone think they are wrong, reality is doing that for me.
Yes, I know.
That is your reality ,sorry you do not share the reality of others, This is what they go by. Sorry for your limit of reality. That explains your standpoint.
You miss the point entirely, there is only one reality. There's no such thing as sharing the make believe reality of others, at least, not with our current technology.
I do not place nor limit reality in any way, it is impossible to do so. Reality places its limits on us, not the other way round.
One needs to take into consideration complete teaching on " blueprint for the Kingdom of God, Matt . 5-7; ( intro. Matt 4:17) the kingdom of God is that great pearl ( Matt. 13:45 ) Jeaus of Nazareth ( Emmanuel, God-with us) knowing His business , telling to those who will WILLINGLY choose to become part of IT : do not force TRUTH upon those who would choose not to accept moral code of the Kingdom, openly rejecting IT ; it would be - allegorically speaking - as giving holy things to the dogs or as throwing pearls before swine ( Matt 7:6) as simple as that: the end of the wisdom. Not calling names, no pointing fingers : your reaction to the Truth according to your faith or your own personal conviction. There are two groups in this matter : who is not with Me is against Me , says the Master.
I am not bothered by those who are offended. If you had of left ridicule out of discussion in the first place and left well alone, I would not of had to ask this question.
Do you think disagreeing with you is ridiculing?
I am always agreeable to disagree in any matter. ATM on the otherhand likes to kick dirt in our faces with his ridecule and whines foul because of one word. I have told him a number of times to feel welcome not to comment on anything I ask, yet he continues to mock believers.
Skip over his comments. If you don't read them he can't offend you.
I do, it was a responce for Beth who has been somewhat troubled by ATM lately.
I meant to encourage a fellow Christian, not a God mocking heathen.
You really, really need to rethink your understanding of spirituality. I'm not sure you are getting everything out of it you are supposed to.
So do you Emile. John 6:63 tells us the Christ's words are spirit and life. When I read His teachings, I look at them in its spiritual meaning. A pig as He worded it does not mean someone who stinks and is filthy on the outside, he is filthy on the inside. It is not the slop we eat that makes us dirty, it is what comes out of our mouths from the heart that makes us filthy. I use the word us, because we were not always Christians.
So what does it mean when you call someone a pig?
read my posts. I aready said what I mean. i am not repeating myself to blind eyes and deaf ears.
I see you don't understand my question.
Swod said "it is what comes out of our mouths from the heart that makes us filthy."
Rad said "So what does it mean when you call someone a pig?"
It seems to me that when one calls someone a pig nasty filthy stuff is coming out of their mouths making them filthy on the inside. Still want to call us pigs?
The funny thing its that pigs are actually pretty intelligent creatures in a sense. Maybe he's just admitting that atheists are smart in a roundabout way :-)
Additionally, if all atheists and non-believers are swine, and not worthy of even conversing with, then all conversions would cease and the religion would gradually stop spreading and maybe even die out. Interesting that they would be interested in seeing that happen.
You didn't tell me anything there I didn't already know you thought. You obviously didn't understand my comment.
Yup, keep the insults coming, you're contributing more to atheism than anything else.
Sorry, but that is false, I am not mocking you. I am criticizing your religious beliefs and sometimes the comments regarding the beliefs are hilariously funny and often absurd.
You, on the other hand, are openly insulting people, calling them swine.
Do you not even know the difference?
Yes, you will happily insult us and will not care about it, while bleating all kinds of false claims of victimization.
No one is insulting you personally, yet you are doing that yourself.
Yes, and we can see from your response the attitude of superiority, arrogance and lack of morals your religion is teaching you. This is only serves to further divide mankind and blight our societies with that tripe.
Not what you think it does.
But, please ignore the first part of that chapter. I've copied it for your consideration (which I bet you won't bother to think about):
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
That precedes your convenient reference. Unless you can show us how you have abided by the first six verses, you are wasting time expecting any to accept that you honestly want to understand what was meant in the next verse.
I asked a simple question and now you come here to attack me personnaly. Is that just as Christ like? Can you at least tell me what you think Matt 7:6 means to you before you attack me first.
OK, I'll humor you and pretend that we don't both know what caused you to start this thread.
I think Jesus had a better understanding of human nature than the next guy. He knew how we act when we share something we consider to be precious and it is not well received. The Bible speaks to people uniquely. What are pearls of wisdom to me might not be the same things that are pearls to you. So, he wasn't referring to pearls of wisdom, he was referring to those things you hold precious spiritually.
To not throw pearls before swine was an attempt to help you not create contention. Not create a situation which would cause ill will and ill thoughts. Keep those things that are precious close. That which is sacred to you is for you, and you alone. Sure, you can share joyfully with others of like mind; but if you share with those who are not of like mind and they share that which they find sacred and precious and you don't agree with them; it makes a mockery of your inner thoughts and emotions and a mockery of those of another. You think ill of them and they of you. At which point the name calling starts. Both sides reacting the same emotionally.
He meant pearls of spiritual wisdom.
That most people don't want to hear it, and will at least make fun and mock you, and at worst torture and kill you.
Great reminder and you know sometime you get that thought in your head and just keep talking! Great words!
Could you imagine throwing a diamond to a pig, he see's nothing of it's value ,but that also may say somthing about the person who through the diamond that they should already know what kind of animal it is ? meaning you can not change a pig into a lamb.
It appears to me to be a nice easy way of belittling those who don't agree with you.
Well what person would be happy and celebrate rejection, when attempted ,the person behind the good or bad issues never likes rejection, that is why forums keep going.
If you're gonna quote the Bible, don't use the NIV--it just makes the text sound even more idiotic and ridiculous than it already is. At least the Geneva and King James bibles try to sound dignified and important while being laughable.
Jesus of Nazareth (there's more about Him,those with Faith know), came first - [ second to redeem ] -to teach/show those who were/are teachable and willing to continue in "God's idea' originally imposed in the "Garden ". Right at the beginning of His 'public service', He is pointing to ultimate rigorousness of the message : do not force TRUTH upon rebellious, defiant or those who will reject it, they might come back as fault -finders , evil speakers ... ( evidences prove to be right ).
To you it would not apply , because you fit the example I have given. And besides you no nothing of my religion,
Yes, and even though you said, "I think no one comes out and call people pigs", you just did.
Oh yes, we know a great deal about your religion, far more than you, actually.
You see you said it I didn't. You use the word ,I used an example. A difference.
Yes, you essentially referred to me as pig. Why not just be honest about it?
I don't know why anyone bothers, because it appears those using this are less than honest with themselves. But if I said we shouldn't expect neanderthals to understand simple logic anytime a Christian disagreed with something I thought made sense, would you consider that an insult?
Oooh, this is the thread that started it all eh? Did I comment on it? I didn't see where I did.
Ill be honest, Im really bad with details Emile. When I read a news paper, I miss all the headlines and only see the story. Im that way with everything. A lot of times when I comment, I may not even know what thread I commented on, or have read more than the comment above mine, or the op. Anyway... I don't think Id seen this thread before.
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (KJV)
Rend: Cause great emotion pain (in the heart)
Lest: To avoid the risk; in case; the possibility of something undesirable happening.
Swine: A person regarded by the speaker with contempt and disgust.
Dog: Something of inferior or low quality; An investment that produces a low return or a loss.
So this scripture essential means : Do not give anything of value/good/holy to something/someone that will turn it against you or other innocent people because they may/possibly cause great emotional pain or cause undesirable things to happen.
Essentially, don't trust evil. Don't give what God has given to you to false prophets. Don't invest your money into things that will bring low return or loss.
He is teaching us to be prosperous in this scripture.
No, He is teaching you to be selfish, suspicious and intolerant.
So giving to evil people so they can use their power against you and others and trusting evil is a good thing?
Who said anything about trusting evil? It was not mentioned in the verses or in the definitions you provided.
Is it automatic for you to assume those who don't share your beliefs are evil people? And, they are trying to use their power of evil against you?
Looking over your replies, you just offer bitterness. I am sorry you have such little faith & invest so much into a world that is evil. If you don't believe in the Bible, that is fine, but don't poison a discussion for the rest of us.
That is what his motive is ,if you notice he just reject any commit on any subject of God ,he feeds off his power to destroy helpful thinking, do not not allow the negative of this person to disturb you ,usually you find out how strong is your faith. Jesus had many alike in his day , that is even more prove that the bible is on time and is accurate . Also notice he does not post on the atheist hubs because ,he gets no joy of others like his self. To him and there are others like him enjoy the hunt!
<--- me offering bitterness
You need not be sorry, you invest and have as much to do with this world as anyone else. I don't need faith to escape it, but instead use understanding to appreciate it's splendor and magnificence. The world is not evil, deal with it.
Oh, I see, you don't want any of us sitting up and taking notice of the discussion, you know, the one in which we're being labeled as swine?
"Rend" means to tear or shatter, especially something solid like muscles or bones.
"Lest" is the same thing as "or else."
"Swine" has always referred to things non-Jewish, whether it be the animal itself or people who just plain aren't Jewish.
"Dogs" refers to anyone beneath your perceived station or anyone you deem to be less holy than you.
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