A generous game to play
This is a very sweet gesture from you.
I learned that love or God is the basic foundation of every religion.
Love or God.
Thanks - it gives a whole different meaning
Welcome and its not only a sweet gesture but a noble one as well- hats of to you.
Phew! At last a forum safe enough for believers, hosted by a non-believer, with no threat of anyone with a modest temper upgrading!
At last a forum where we all can tread without fear! Mark my words, people from far and near! A forum where believer and non believer can meet and greet!!! Whew! What a relief! So, Mr Quicksand, are you going to join the discussion or just admire the wallpaper
We should have a sweepstake about when normal service is resumed.
I stake one bottle of finest Ouzo on Page 4.I see your Ouzo and raise you a bottle of Jack Daniels on page 3
And I promise not to be the one who breaks the peace. In the meantime, I am a big fan of the Hindu ideal of non attachment which fits with my own studies.Mark Knowles publicly displaying restraint. This I GOTTA see!
Well, so far so good
My theory behind this thread is that you don't have to believe a religion or philosophy in order to value at least some parts of it. The same is true in pure science - Newtonian Mechanics is still pretty handy even though, strictly, it is 'wrong'. (And there are plenty of adjacent threads where people so inclined can beat each other up).Great stuff - Thanks for starting the great thread, Paraglider.
I have never heard MK or yourself slate Jesus/Buddha/Guru Nanth/Muhammed. Whether you believe in God or not, most of what they teach is good. It is when things are twisted that religion becomes nasty.
Although a baptised Christian, I like the way that Sufis/Quakers avoid doctrine, dogma and clergy. They just get in the way. Might not be for everyone, but it suits me just fine!
Paraglider - Take your heretical Einsteinian theories out of here. Newton wrote in Latin, so he must have been right. Darn new-fangled Relativity - does that make my Pick-Up work? Sheesh
Good Call, Paraglider. A very good game!
Not sure where to start, as I am a bit of a Magpie when it comes to religion and life
I am Greek Orthodox Christian but:
Surprisingly enough, I like a lot of what Sufism has to say - I like their disrespect for dogma and organized religion. I have never been one for going to church or spending time poring through scripture. Most scripture boils down to one simple phrase - 'Be kind to people.'
The Quaker principle that the spiritual journey is an individual pursuit - Everybody must develop their own beliefs, rather than following man-made 'rules.'
Somewhere along the line, I picked up the Buddhist/Hindu/Jain respect for all life. I turned veggie partly because of reading about Indian beliefs, partly through my Grandfather's influence.
From the Icelandic Eddas - A Code of Honour. Not to lie, cheat or steal. Not to impose my beliefs upon others.
And, of course: From science - Evolution
EDIT~ QuicksandIn Indian or Hinduism which is very broad belief (people living of the land of the river Indus) many eat non veg food.Hunting and fishing- having such a huge coast line is a way of life for many.I love what Guru Nanak has to say" Who is to tell what is veg and what is non -veg,everything is alive it is the fool who argues on the merit of religion".
lol - My knowledge of Eastern religions is not as broad or as deep as it should be! It was based around a few pieces that I read as a teenager.
Just reading a book about Sikhism - I have read about the history of the Gurus, and am about to start on the doctrine. Got to love the acceptance of all beliefs
I promised Country Women that I would read about Hinduism next!
PG - Fascinating stuff. Hope that you liked what you read!
I tend to sniff around the mystical fringes of organised religion - that is where the interesting stuff is! Only met a couple of Sufis, but I plan to visit Jordan and Iran at some point.You will love reading about the Sikh saints ,my favorite is Guru Nanak the founder one of my idols.
Got to love the acceptance of all beliefs- shows your intelligence- keep it up.
Sufism- Jalal ud-din Rumi is also another idol of mine.Thank you for the link will read about them
Paraglider this is what I meant.You will see this essence in all religions.
I learned that love or God is the basic foundation of every religion.Mohit, Sufi - I know a little bit about Quakers. You know how we all have these 'Aunts' who are just close friends and not really family? One of mine, Aunt Kathy, was a Quaker, and not just any Quaker, but a Cadbury. Yes, the HUGE chocolate manufacturer! Cadbury and Fry (same family) were children of the Industrial Revolution. But they were also Quaker. And their religion made them truly philanthropic. They built not just a chocolate factory but a small town with simple but quality accommodation for all their workers. And amenities like cinema, shops, cafes, etc. Because they believed that profit was ok but excessive profit was wrong and should be given back to the workers in better living conditions. Not bad, eh?
And Aunt Kathy continued in this spirit of generosity by giving us (2 brothers & me) a Cadbury's variety box every Christmas.
So Quakers are OK
Sufi- You do make me want to post(also since maybe you wanted some female inputs here I am or was this a male bonding campfire where I am not allowed)...hehe
Btw it is good to know that you still remember your promise. Yes what Mohit says is true. And even when the kings used to hunt it was primarily prescribed for consumption. We have to first take care of our own body and in that process whatever least harm can be done to our environment is prescribed.
Paraglider- Now coming to your question:
From the Jains- I love there absolute belief in non violence (they even cover there mouths so that no minute creatures go inside them).
From the Budhists- There belief in the eight fold path seems to be a practical guidelines to evolve from the cause/suffering cycle.
From the Christians- There helping attitude and the ability to go to remote parts to serve the poor and downtrodden.
From the Muslims- There loyalty to something they strongly believe in.
From the Sikhs- There community service (langar) where actions mean more than words.
From the Zorastrians- Being truthful and trying to increase the positive energy(and reducing the negative energy) in us by rightful means.
From the Rationalists- Trying to be constantly enquiring about the cause/effect of everything based on logical/cognitive thinking & scientific methodologies.
From the Agnostics- Leaving the questions about God as open ended questions instead of trying to come to a definite conclusion one way or the other (sometimes questions are more important than being able to come to the "right" answers)
From the Atheists: A belief that a "action/deed" is far more effective than a prayer(although others who do believe in prayers may consider it as a subtle action).
These are some of my experiences/observations(based on both online and in person). I haven't met many Jews/Bahai and so many others yet to have an impression of them as of now.LiveLonger- WOW!! That is an excellent summary of so many beliefs in a nutshell. Btw did you get to meet folks from all these beliefs (either online or in person)? It is such a educational experience when we learn so much from different view points. Thanks to Paraglider for starting this thread.
Sufi-Dreamer - I had to google Sufism to find out more about it. It's one of the terms I've heard floating about but never had reason to explore. Now, on reading that source of all knowledge, Wikipedia, on the subject, I realise that I have met a few Sufi adherents in my travels in the Middle East. So I've learned something today
- pgrundyposted 14 years ago
0From the Tibetan Buddhist school founded by Chogyam Trungpa in the 1970s and popularized today in the writings of American Buddhist nun Pema Chodron I learned that the most toxic situations in life can be welcomed and transformed through acceptance, detached observation of what is actually happening (as opposed to rabid thinking about what I WISH was happening and editing reality to fit that), and the cultivation of compassion. This was an enormously useful lesson for me coming out of a personal situation that was tragic and ugly. The tradition teaches that such situations can be used to generate compassion for ourselves and others and therefore should not be avoided or discarded. It teaches people to accept and use every part of life and every emotion, not just the 'good' parts and the 'good' emotions.
Great thread!
Morning, BDazzler
One of the many reasons for wanting to visit Iran (the ancient history, too!).
MK is reactive - if people don't tell him that is going to the special level of Hell reserved just for Atheists, somewhere below lawyers, real estate agents and Wall St. bankers, he is very respectful of the beliefs of others!LOL ... if you can, go back and read our first debate ... Of course, I was standing up for AEvans who is so similar to my sister in so many ways it's uncanny, So, I was not exactly diplomatic sometimes
I read that one - easily done. I remember going all medieval on a couple of Creationists in an evolution debate. I was out of order, so I try to be a little more restrained and understanding. No use complaining about others forcing their beliefs if I do just the same.
Whilst I am borderline scripturephobic, I like the way that you constantly question your own beliefs. I have respect for the way that you strive to make your own interpretations, rather than regurgitate the findings of others. Different path, same destination
This is getting worrying now - no arguments on the thread. Maybe the Interdimensional Timewarp has struck again, and I am in an alternate universe
lol - A distinct lack of female input on this thread. It is turning into a sit round the campfire male-bonding session! Tomorrow the paintballing
Seriously, though - replace scripture with 'science', and pretty much the same here.
As long as we understand that we make mistakes, then there is no problem. I seem to remember you saying that your interpretation of 'born with sin' means 'nobody is perfect.' Pretty good definition - I am with Paraglider on the subject of sin, but I sure mess things up a lot of the time!
This thread rumbles on - I reckon that we are all travelling in pretty much the same direction, but choose different cars - although I could imagine MK on an old Triumph motorcycle
Good words,good thoughts and good dead's in the foundation of the Parsi philosophy.
I am half Parsi and they don't believe its food without meat but that doesn't make them any less spiritual.They are known for their honesty.The light connects
There is a story that the Masons were founded on the teachings of Zaratushtra.Today in India you will find many Masons are Parsis.I joined for some time but never attended.
Out of fear of being prosecuted by the church they held secret meetings as it was blasphemous to praise or accept any other Prophet than Jesus in Europe.I don't ... wonderful thing about "Secret Societies" is that they're secret
What secret societies?
I think they were talking about "Masons"
'Twas a joke.
So dumb of me. Yes you are right if we know those secret societies then they aren't "secret" anymore (except for their internal operations)
Yup - Pretty much the same with the mystical elements of most religions.
That is what makes the fringes interesting!One of the benefits is that we can have this discussion, in real time, around the world. Science ain't so bad
When we meet in person - you can count on it. Where I live - it is insanely expensive. Plus shipping
My time zone insists I go to bed now. thanks all for entering into the spirit of this one, and see you all in the (Gulf) morning
Good morning all
So far, no-one has mentioned the Rastafarians:
Everything's gonna be all right...
(whether or not Haile Selassie was a reincarnation of God)
Ganja peace, manNice- every master says simplify.
Mohit- Even you are a "master" in your own way. When you mentioned "love" or "God" as the essence that really touched my heart. Love certainly is the basis. Btw I didn't know you were half parsee (If my experience in bombay is correct than to be a parsee one has to have both the parents as parsee's I am not sure if there is something like half parsee among parsee's?).
But yes parsee's are very hardworking, honest and truthful folks (but there surnames which start with there professions can be funny to non parsees like Daruwala (Daru=alcohol) etc)
Paraglider- Nice catch. How could we miss that? Bob Marley was one of the most popular Rastafarians. They are mostly vegans and avoid alcohol too. Thanks for such a wonderful thread.Technically you are correct.My mother was Parsi -got excommunicated when she married a Hindu.
Then its in my blood and this debate is being fought till today.Related to the Parsi Agyari in Grant Road- Grandfather was a priest-Parsi side.
And thank you for your kindness- I do know who I am.Actually his lyrics are pretty meaningful and I don't find it surprising that lots of folks like it. I guess there are folks who like the lyrics and others who like the music more. But the best combination would be to have both. Although some of the instrumental music are by themselves in a separate class(my husband loves instrumental)
I used to have a Rastaman friend when I was in my teens. At least I think he was. He was one of about 5 blacks back then that lived in the town I live in. Sully used to say "it's real cool down in Jamaica man" with his thick Jamaican accent.
He sang in a reggae band and recorded his own music. One day he got a call from Jamaica saying one of his songs made it to the Jamaica top hits, so he was off back to Jamaica. That was back before Bob Marley died so I imagine he did alright.
PG Haile Selassie was from Ethiopia so maybe that's why Bob Marley is very popular with the Gulf Arabs. Haile Selassie is revered as the religious symbol for God incarnate among the Rastafarians. Good music too.
I Can't say I have learne an awful lot "from" other religions, but I have learned a fair bit "about" them. My real learning is actually right here on the religion forum. I mostly enjoy (really) interacting with others of other beliefs. I have no problem hearing their points of view, and do love them as people. I have said it to you before PG, I love the way you write and express your thoughts etc. I am having a great time!
:aka-dj - thanks for dropping by
The religion forum is a mixed 'church' indeed, but quite a lively one!
Mohit - quite a few Church of Scotland communicants are also Freemasons (and/or policemen!) but secrecy is still part of the masonic culture, so it is hard to know quite what they are about, even now.WOW!! That is a typical software phrase. Any problems or any enhancements just wait for the new patch/version release
Have a sneaking feeling that, with current technology, that would require a computer significantly larger than the Earth. Possibly even larger than Jeremy Clarkson's ego.
What I like best about all the religions is that they all are saying the same things, just in different words based in different cultural surroundings. The mystical teachings of the religions are much more "full" of meaning than doctrine/dogma.
I am waiting for spiritual science to be more accepted; science and religion/spiritual paralleled. I find them quantifiable and measurable...just not in the "accepted" terms of science.
Like chakras and meridian energies being accepted as truth and another valid aspect of being that affects our health and state of mind.
For every scripture I have read in the worlds religions have talked about them, but most people have not made those connections yet with day to day life. My whole life I have lived with "these energies" and it has taken a lot of doing for me to feel accepted as an individual, when these "realities" of life are not recognized and accepted as realities.
And then of course there is the soul and the validity of that as an important aspect of being. Jung was quite adamant on it.
And Astrology as a spiritual science, actually paralleling, even defining psychology, when looked at as a higher state of consciousness, not mundanely as in the simple newspaper daily blurb.
I am grateful for the aspects of 'East meets West' that have been brought forth and accepted by at least some people. This is an exciting time !when I was a framing carpenter, we had several Rasta guys on our crew...we were jammin' while walking the rafters on "high"...in the "good ole days" of my youth, "don't worry, be happy"...full of love and peace and Rasta and the Grateful Dead.........
SparklingJewel walking the rafters on high with a Rastaman carpentry crew. That's quite the image. Cool.
From my dad who is agnostic, I learned that I should always consider what makes me happy, and just go for that. And no matter what I choose, he will be there to support me.
From my mom, who is Christian, I learned that I can’t please everyone, so I should just do what I think is right.
From my grandma, who was Taoist, I learned to respect my elders, and also not to sleep with my feet pointing at the door.
From my dogs (one is Catholic, I think, and the other is agnostic) I learned not to take things too seriously, and that fresh chicken is always better than kibble.
From the Dalai Lama I learned that you lead a happier life by listening and trying to put yourself in other people’s shoes. Negative energy + negative energy = more negative energy
From Genzo Sanzo, who is a monk character in a story, I learned that you should find your own path and not be defined by what others think you should be.
From Paraglider, I learned that many people with different backgrounds and different belief systems can come together, discuss wallpaper, and sometimes even agree. We should try curtains next.
I am not sure if this is the best, but it is what has stuck with me most.Shibashake- You do learn from lots of sources. Just curious how did you figure out your dog's beliefs?
I pay close attention to which religious books are well licked, and which religious books make them so angry, they tear out all the pages.
When that fails, I try to figure out their beliefs based on their actions and temperament.
Dear Paraglider, Fantastic learning attitude is found on this track
All those who have mentioned their learnings, I appreciate and wish all of us take from this treasure what we miss
We talk about personality -
what I have learnt from my experiences is -
Personality = person + qualities
We should not just be literates but should be educated to use the literacy.
Thus a person is incomplete even though he has qualities (only awareness of qualities can be considered as literacy). Hence for him to be complete, he should be educated to utilise and express his qualities with an attitude of humbleness and gratitude which can be = Ideal personality.
Learning is complete only when we have implemented and experienced what information we have compiled. Hence we should always have a practical (learning) attitude instead of just keep on collecting information.
Wish all a good luck
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