Surrender

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   manatita44posted 10 years ago

   "I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the Will of the Father who has sent me." John 5:30 (King James edit. Red letter).
   
   It seems to me that the Christ is successful and has been successful, precisely because he constantly gave all credit to God. He did not - like so many - speak of a 'free will' or wanting to act on His own. Rather he demonstrated, in so many passages in the Gospel, that He was reliant on God. He knew that of Himself he was nothing, that all power comes from Him who sent him, The Christ. Consequently, He was able to achieve His mission. How I wish to live in the true spirit of self-surrender and abandonment to the Divine Will!
   
   Share your thoughts on the discussion and said quote.

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      taiwokareemposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Its true bro. We have to surrender to God before there are positive changes in our lives. Remember the lord's prayer where it said. "May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven". He never said may our will be done

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         manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Taiwo.
         
         Glad you appreciate this divine poem and its profundity. Higher blessings.

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      Paul K Francisposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      We do not need to give up our own free will when we surrender to Christ. Surrendering gives us direction; surrendering enables us to choose wisely, so when we come to those many forks in the roads, when we need to choose between meanness and kindness, or between anger or patience, we know what to do.

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         manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         What can I say, Paul. Thanks for the input.

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         manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         That is part of the problem, Paul. Man tends to think that he is in charge. Grace walks with us unseen as well as consciously. It carries us when we are weary and nourishes our inner hunger. Where do you think the capacity to surrender comes from? Yourself?
         
         "O Lord, I have chosen you, only because You have chosen me first." Peace this Sunday, Bro.

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            Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            You alone are responsible for your actions and your words. We are responsible for what we do to the earth and to each other. Except responsibility for your accomplishments and your errors. Stop blaming someone else, time to grow up and be a man/women.

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               janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Well said.

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      Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      His mission was 2,000 years of division and conflict?

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      Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You are only surrendering to your own mind. Simply giving into your sub-conscious mind rather than reason. Allowing yourself to be lied to by yourself. Welcome to the grand illusion.

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         bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Just thought I would come on in and see what's happening, (I've paid the price and got my tickets to the show).

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            Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Someday soon we'll stop to ponder what on Earth's this spell we're under
            We made the grade and still we wonder who the hell we are

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               manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               So beautiful? Radman, You've just entered the Path of Self-enquiry? This is my supreme message to you. Funny thing, you seem to know this. Persevere!

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               bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               But don't be fooled by the radio, The Hubs or the magazines.  They show you photographs of how your life should be, but they're just someone else's fantasy.
               
               Oh to de young again.  Nevertheless, some of this just styx with you!

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                  Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm told I'm no longer to de young, instead I'm gowen to get old.

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                     bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     You see the world through your cynical eyes, you're a troubled young man...I can tell. 
                     We see it one way when our eyes are de young, now gowan a new way we've found to be well.

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            manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Funny Man, Berean.
            
            Nothing happens without an inner cry, and perhaps you are hungry. No fear. I speak of the living hunger, not the mundane one. Ultimately they are intertwined but that's another story.
            
            Happy to have you, and hoping that you benefit from visiting this Hub. Much peace.

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               bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you Manatita44.  Just an fyi regarding nomenclature; this is a "thread" on a "forum".  "Hub" refers to the publications Hubbers create and post on this site.

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                  manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes. You are right, Berean. Thank You for reminding me. Peace.

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   janesixposted 10 years ago

   I prefer free will and control over my own life.

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      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Ditto.  I can't imagine living for eternity on bended knee, always a vastly superior entity giving the orders and directions.  A living hell.

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         manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         This is not the surrender of which I speak. Those who experience this state, know only supreme joy. There are no slaves and master there, only Oneness. Still, my friend Wilderness. I appreciate your input. Peace.

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            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I guess it's a matter of perspective and attitude.  Some people need that "guiding light" in their lives; others prefer to make their own way.  As far as the concept of slavery here, I don't really see a lot of difference between "Do what I say or be tortured for eternity" and "Do what I say or be beaten and tortured, perhaps to death".

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               manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               By the way, My Brother Wilderness,
               
               I am a God-lover. I know very little about Religion. But yes, I am familiar with many Teachers of the Way. I walk along a devotional Path of Self-inquiry and introspection, and I speak only from the standpoint of inner experience. The Light within me, has corresponded with that of the Teachings of the Great Teachers of the world, both past and present, and so I have faith in their teachings.
               
               I do not know about a 'torture for eternity' from a loving God. This is not my box. I have not come into this world to sing a separation song.

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                  Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Yet like all "gurus" you have a book to sell for profit - yes?

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                     manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Righteous, I answer because you seem to have given me a smile. I have faith in you, in man. I feel the inner Light. Let it shine, Bro. We have no quarrels here.

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                        Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        No quarrels - just asking for your rationale for cherry picking what the bible says.

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                           manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           I am not really a bible person, Bro. But I love the Christ. I love Ramakrishna and Krishna and Mirabai and Rumi ...... there's more
                           
                           I love the spirit of unconditional surrender to the Will of the Supreme, and I love those who strive to love mankind. I commend those who sacrifice in order to elevate humanity.
                           
                           Where are you Bro? It's quite early and I am hungry. I may eat soon. I am in the UK. What do you do?
                           
                           Much Mehta (loving kindness)
                           
                           P.S I like your second symbol, too.

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                              Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Pretty short sighted don't you think? This "sacrifice" causing so much discord. I am in the UK at the moment and work online.
                              
                              Just as a matter of interest - how did this Christ that you love elevate humanity exactly?

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                                 manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Christianity is full of Saints, Bro.
                                 
                                 You will find the bad things if you look for them, sure. But I can rattle of 100 or more inspired and inspirational men and women of God without thinking. Some adorn the walls of our own homes, shops, the plates we use. Also, there are about 33 percent of the worlds population that are Christians, most are practicing Christians.
                                 
                                 My experience is that if one has Faith in Something Higher and prays to It, then there is definitely some solace, no matter how small. I'm sure you know yourself that many people will swear to this. Indeed men and women will die for this. Not me, and  I have nothing to defend here. My Teacher is Sri Chinmoy. But it is foolish to say that thousands if not more, have not benefitted from the teachings of the Christ. Why is the Bible one of the most sold book on Earth?
                                 
                                 Great Souls have come into the world, and have caused the advent of stupors, and temples and domes and churches and numerous places of worship where humans go to get some comfort. Why would they go if not for some form of release?
                                 
                                 I will quite happily agree that there is a dark side Bro. It's there in plenty. Would you turn away from your loving child, because six of the seven are bad?
                                 
                                 So you live in the UK. Cool. Would be nice to meet someday. Not for this, though. I have just entered the realm of the reasoning and rational mind. I don't usually. Spirituality is the language of the Heart. If you wish to swim, then you will have to enter the water. So I say, pray daily, regularly, with discipline and do this ceaselessly for three months and then come back to me if it does not work. But you must try, Bro. That's reasonable, isn't it? Yoga Philosophy is based on individual effort accompanied by the Inner Grace. Have a great day!

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                                    Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I would prefer it if you did not give me advice on what I should be doing. The assumption that I have not looked and therefore did not find is somewhat offensive. I have looked, have found and while you may get "solace" from whatever it is you believe - it always seems to be the case that when people feel they have found something - they want everyone else to do the same, and they simply have not tried hard enough if they come to a different conclusion. So I say - try thinking rationally about what you have found. Spend three months trying to understand it and - maybe - just maybe - you will come to understand that spirituality is actually the product of your imagination. But you must try to combine this "heart" with "mind" to properly understand. If you still don't understand in three months of diligent rational thinking, come back to me. But you must try to understand instead of accepting what your teacher tells you. That is reasonable isn't it?
                                    
                                    The bible is prolific because of 2,000 years of the spread of Christianity at the point of a sword.

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                                       manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       My apologies.
                                       
                                       No offence intended. I most certainly do not believe in conversion. Each man walks his own Path. All my love.

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                                          Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                          No need to apologize. I understand and did not take offense. Just wanted you to know that the underlying assumptions can be offensive.
                                          
                                          Pax.

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      manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      This is a way also. If and when it brings you pain, then let me know. Thanks for the input, Janesix.

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         Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry, but if I remember correctly your way has caused her great pain.

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   lone77starposted 10 years ago

   Beautiful, manatita44. For many years I had the misunderstanding about free will.
   
   As spiritual beings, we fell into darkness of the ego "self" (self-concern). This is the opposite of the outward, loving attitude of which Christ spoke.
   
   Being self-reliant is an illusion. It's part of the separateness that is the lie of ego.
   
   In reality, we are one being and depend upon one another for this reality.
   
   I was surprised a few months ago to learn that the Bible had been written by Kabbalists in code. It wasn't a big surprise, because I had discovered 15 years ago their "Tree of Life" matrix embedded in 2 chapters of Genesis.
   
   But in all the miracles that I've experienced, that is one key theme -- surrender. Ego wants to take credit for it all. When we become humble, we are following the wisdom of Christ. The "First" (egoist) shall be last, and the "Last" (humble) shall be first.
   
   When we love others as ourselves and wish for them everything that they desire, then we are doing as God does. He bestows gifts on all of us without distinction or reservation. The only problem on our end is that we are poor receivers of those gifts, because of ego.
   
   We need to learn to be better givers so that we can receive for the benefit of others instead of ourselves.
   
   The following short video is a real eye-opener for those who are ready.
   
   http://perceivingreality.com.

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      manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you my spiritual Brother, Lone star.
      
      I have read your words for some time and seen you grow. I know that your slant have been different lately and for the better. They were good before but from my standpoint, you've improved. Perhaps the lady has helped you, Bro. (smile)
      
      You and I, we are both sojourners along the way. I stress on practice and inner experience quite a lot, but I have also sat at Sri Chinmoy's feet for 32 years. Perhaps this is my advantage.
      
      So happy to hear from you and to see your growth. I am growing too. The concept of Self-transcendence, is an ever-transcending one. Much Mehta. (loving kindness)

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         Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         One of my hero's of the faith is a man by the name of KP Yohanan. I wonder if you've heard of him?
         http://kpyohannan.org/ He gives away many of his books and I can say they changed my life.
         http://www.gfa.org/kpyohannan/

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            manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I'm glad that he inspired you. Good is what takes you towards the Light, and 'lesser good' is what seemingly takes you away from it. Never do what makes you weak. Have an intense faith in Something Higher, and walk in prayer with your brothers and sisters: mankind. There is more ... but you will discover this yourself with progress.
            
            Thanks for your contribution, Sed-me.

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               Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               So you haven't heard of him?
               Ok, then nice talking to you.

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            bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I had not heard of him or this ministry before.  Having spent some time at the site now, I must say it is both inspiring and humbling.  They are worthy of support.  Thank you for sharing the information.

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               Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Please order one of his free books. "Revolution in World Missions" is a terrible title, b/c it is the story of his life, which was awesome. His ministry is amazing as are his books.

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   taiwokareemposted 10 years ago

   There is a verse that says Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
   
   This is an assurance and free will. Any other thing that brings depression or pain or burden is not from God so if you feel this way and call yourself a religious person, it's worth thinking about life again.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

   Surrender is not submission. Surrender has to do with free will. Submission has to do with abandoning will. Abandoning will-power is not in the cards.
   Mine anyway.

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      manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I speak of unconditional surrender to the Will of the Supreme. Jean Pierre du Cassaude, the great Christian Saint, called it Abandonment to Divine Providence or the Sacrament of The Present Moment.
      
      Those who know, ultimately say: "O God, I came to you knowing that you came to me first." So ultimately, there is a continuous thread of underlying Grace.
      
      Thanks for the input, Kathryn.

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   Perspycaciousposted 10 years ago

   The one thing we can give to God that He doesn't have is the free agency/free will He gave to each of us.  When we surrender our will to the will of our Heavenly Father (by living for Him in keeping with His commandments and giving Him the glory) we find a joy and a happiness we cannot fashion on our own, but with God everything is possible.

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      bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Well said.  +1

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      Righteous Atheistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting - another one limiting god. Why is it that you guys don't shine with joy and happiness then?

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      manatita44posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. So happy that you see this, Perspycacious. True wisdom here.

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