IF NOAH SMOKED WEED?

1. 61

   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   If Noah would have gotten stoned instead of getting drunk, would weed be legal and alcohol be illegal?

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      Davinagirl3posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think we would be smoking weed and enjoying hemp products if it wasn't for Hearst and Anslinger.  It is all about money, not morality.  Only the minions believe weed is worse for you than tequila.  Prisons boost the economy in rural areas.  Just think of how many people would be without a job if little Johnny couldn't get busted for his herb.

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         Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Aren't there varieties of hemp that are not hallucinogenic which can be used to make paper and fabric for clothes.  I love hemp clothes, they're so expensive though.  Should be cheap if we grew hemp as a commodity like cotton.

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            Davinagirl3posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            There are types of hemp that are not used for drugs.  Hemp cannot be grown in America because W.R. Hearst owned paper companies that used wood pulp.  He also owned most of the newspapers in the free world.  He and Anslinger started a smear campaign on marijuana to outlaw ALL hemp.  Hemp paper costed him money... hence, weed is illegal.  It didn't even start as a drug issue.  Marijuana, becoming illegal, was collateral damage.

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               marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               lol thanks for sharing, I am not up on my hemp history I see.

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                  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Hemp was used to make ropes for boats. There is a hemp store next to my school. They make frames, books, coasters, etc.

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      2. 61

         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I don't know about you or anyone else, but I find it pretty amazing and odd that no one has spoken up to say weed should be illegal? Why is this? Someone had a word in keeping it illegal.

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            Davinagirl3posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I don't see the logic in keeping it illegal when alcohol is legal.  There is a documentary called, High, (I think) with a lot of good insight. 
            It is called, "High: The True Tale of American Marijuana".

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            Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Personally I think it should remain illegal.  However, I want some politicians with balls to stop the monopoly of the cotton and paper industries.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      neither, he would be dead.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         lol why would he be dead?

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            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            he got stoned to death..pretty common then.

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      getpaidtopostposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Come on, God? Noah's ark? think your the one on drugs if you ever believed this story.

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      chukra Gposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      who is this NOAH?

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         A character from the bible who supposedly built a boat and put all the animals on earth onboard when the world was flooded, thus saving them all.

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            chukra Gposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            supposedly, so he failed in his mission?

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               earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I guess he did chukra, I do not believe the story is true, but many do.

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                  chukra Gposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  

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   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   If he would have fell asleep stoned instead of drunk, would he still have fallen asleep naked?
   
   How did a drunk build an arc to hold every animal in the world? Does God favor naked drunks? If he would have been a stoner, would God still have picked him?

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3. 73

   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   I don't know how the law would be, but we may have missed out on a lot of infighting amongst the isms.

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   Leta Sposted 15 years ago

   I'm sorry.  I know this is very serious...but lololololololololololololololo

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      your fault

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   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   If the bible is made from hemp paper .......

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      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      makes sense, someone was very stoned!

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         "Falls outta chair"

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   Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

   Wow. That is a really interesting topic. I hope you get a good discussion going on this!
   
   And what if, at the wedding at Caana Jesus hadn't turned water into wine, but had turned salad into mary jane.
   
   And what if, instead of gold, frankincense and myrrh, the 3 wise men had brought the Baby Jesus a load of purple bud instead. Hmmmm.
   
   Well, it seems to me that the modern implications of Biblical weed are that to the extent that our laws are made by people who use the Bible as their reference guide in making such laws, then weed would be legal. Alcohol might also, tho, because it is mentioned quite often in the Bible in various contexts.
   
   There is certainly Biblical precedent for a variety of laws governing us today. "Thou shalt not kill" "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods" are two that come to mind...

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      They might as well have put "thou should not get baked" because it's the same as leaving it out. I think the prophets are hypocrites! How can you talk to God if you aren't stoned?
      
      
      More to add to my "theory". Religion is a conspiracy to have people not think! Why would they want to mention a "thinkers drug" which is not a drug at all.

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Very, very stoned!

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   Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

   What about tripping? I think Moses probably dropped some shrooms up there on the mount. Normal people don't have visions of burning bushes or hear voices.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      

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      Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      ROFL. That's such a visual.

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      dennisemattposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      are you saying Im not normal????

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         Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You're as rare and precious as the shrooms on the mount.

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      Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Shrooms on the Mount - I think that could be a great hub from MM. Can't wait for that one.

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8. 61

   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   Seriously, what else would they do? Sit and pray all day? You know they smoked bud.

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      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      And got off on the "Gold tops" and "blue meanies" mushrooms are an old life form.

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   Many religious people will not try drugs. The idea that there is more to learn from them never gets tested. I would like to see them all well bent.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I do not classify weed as a drug because it does little to no damage. I think it's facts for doing good far outweigh the bad.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I do not understand why "some" religious will be alcoholics and will judge those who smoke bud?
      
      
      I thought religion teaches not to judge?

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         fortunerepposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Because Alcohol is "Socially Acceptable"  where  as weed is not so they just smoke it at home on the down low

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            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I'm glad you said this. I would like to make the point that alhocol "prevents thought" while weed "increases thought".

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10. 67

    fortunerepposted 15 years ago

    If only Goldentoad was here for this one!
    
    Now weed has been around since well forever.  It was used as rituals in Indian Ceremonies.  I am sure it was one of those gifts to baby Jesus for the parents, frankinsense, myrrr um.......

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       So why does religion and the bible hide weed? To prevent free thought?

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          Bob Cedarposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          It's like Bob Marley said "They don't want you smoking the herb, because it makes you too solid"

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11. 75

    Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

    Eastern spiritual leaders are totally into drugs. Remember the transformation of the Beatles after their magical mystery tour?
    
    But booze def seems to be the vice of choice for most religious leaders. Communion wine. Yum.

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Gimme 6 of them gold tops mushrooms, 2 white buds, and I will build you an arc and load it with animals including quite a few brand new ones that I just invent.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I'm not floating in any arc you are building! I don't like swimming!

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       fortunerepposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       what's a white bud?

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          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          One particular strain of MJ turns white on the outside when it is peaked properly and ready to pick.
          I have only had it once in Australia at a place called Womens Mountain, it was very psychedelic and only took about three tokes to be away in fairy land.

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             A true professor! I want to hop with the kangaroo's!

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13. 61

    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    I think were onto something!

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14. 61

    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Why does the government not want weed legalized? Are they scared of thinkers?

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    fortunerepposted 15 years ago

    Heck yeah marine I am with you...
    
    slow it down now Ernest, It is getting scary
    
    The government want legalize weed because of the  money they make.  If a person is caught with a large amount of marijuana they have to pay the taxes of it's street value.  If the farmer can pay fines and taxes he get off pretty easy.  Money always talks. Marijuana always walks.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Isn't weed California's number 1 cash crop? How is this possible when weed is illegal? I think some politicians are dealing bud.

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    fortunerepposted 15 years ago

    duh, ya think.  they are not what they seem

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17. 61

    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    How much taxpayer money do we pay for law enforcement, criminals getting arrested for weed? Pretty ridiculous amount.

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18. 61

    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Why would God expect someone to get through life without smoking some bud?
    
    Did God not naturally put weed on the earth?

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    flread45posted 15 years ago

    If Noah smoked weed,he may have wrecked the Ark and we wouldn't have any creatures to look at!!

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Sir, If Noah would have gotten stoned, he wouldn't have attempted to build an impossible arc in the first place.

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20. 61

    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Where is the religious to tell me I am going to hell for smoking some bud while your preacher gets drunk?

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21. 61

    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Do they have jakelope's in australia?

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       No Jackalopes, plenty of kangaroos and wallabies though.

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I like all of those as well, still nothing like a rabbit with horns.

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             earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I'll say! How big is a Jakelope?

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    Phlashposted 15 years ago

    Isn't the only reason weed is illegal is because there was such a threat to the paper industary from hemp, that congress was forced to illegalise it?

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I have no clue but you have to be stoned!!! I'm jk

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       Amanda Severnposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You can make good quality fabric from hemp too. Perhaps the paper lobby and the cotton lobby got together on this one.....

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          Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          It was, I've no doubt.  God damn it!  Maybe Obama is powerful enough to change this?  We can hope, yes?

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             Amanda Severnposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Hemp grows well on inhospitable ground, and it's a great crop on so many levels.

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                Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                It's a travesty.  I can't understand it, other than to think the monopoly on cotton is the issue.  But this is making this thread serious.  Everyone wants to be stoned and have munchies.

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Maybe it is illegal because they will not be able to regulate the growth and regulate the taxes.
    
    Or maybe it's illegal because it is a "thinkers drug" and the government does not want people to think of how jacked up things are?

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    Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

    LOL. The government comes up with some pretty lame reasons to to make things legal or illegal. Somehow, I doubt it's because they don't want its citizenry stoned and thinking deep thoughts.
    
    They make weed illegal because they are on a crusade to get rid of obesity and they don't want people muching out on fast food. LOL.

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    fortunerepposted 15 years ago

    yea it's a conspiracy, I think too much without it I can't debate with you, you agree and I agree so that is not debatable.  Why the government want legalize it is.  But, I think Obama Rama will before it is over with.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Eh this is interesting. Does Obama really want people thinking right now?

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    They make weed illegal because they are on a crusade to get rid of obesity and they don't want people muching out on fast food. LOL.
    
    LOL Outstanding, is this the theory?
    
    If this is correct, then the government will probably start promoting coke and crack to make people lose weight!

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Will someone still get into heaven if they arrive at the gates stoned?

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       fortunerepposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       If I suddenly die and end up at the gates of heaven I will surely have lost my buzz by then, know this.

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know, I don't wanna mess with trying to find my way through any clouded tunnels stoned. I might be delayed.

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             fortunerepposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             How do you know there are tunnels?

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                marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I watched people come back from the dead when I was stoned watching discovery channel! lol
                
                If there are tunnels, I would need a GPS to find my way if I was baked.

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       Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       What if it wears off before you get there?  Apparently it's a journey and not automatic.

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Ahhh, but what if it is a stoned "journey"

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    fortunerepposted 15 years ago

    He will approve of anything that takes peoples negative focus off of him and onto something else. When I was doing mu hub yesterday on the Swine Flu update, I noticed that out of all the the states in America Washington DC only has 33 cases compared to my small state with 255. He hides alot of shit.  Probably got the vaccine for all potiticians and lobbyists.  I have been there, it is as congested as NY. People from everywhere.  But NY has close to 3000.  Lets have a debate on the Swine Flu some don't think it's a threat.  ARe you kiddin me.  Yeah I am thinking too much
    dori

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I don't really fear the swine flue however I will say that you are obviously a thinker! I don't think government likes thinkers, I know the military doesn't from experience.

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          fortunerepposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          the government hates me, I knew it.

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Quite the opposite. The government loves you and me because we pay their ridiculous salaries.

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I would like to add something. I do find it curious as do you how Obama will continue to place blame taking any attention from him or his party as you said. This has also been widely mentioned on talk radio. What you didn't think I listened to talk radio every now and then because I smoke bud?

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    If someone would have gotten stoned and debated a prophet, would the stoner have gotten stoned with rocks?

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       fortunerepposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       according to the bud, it may feel like cotton balls and hilarious too.

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Where did earnest go?

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    viryaboposted 15 years ago

    Im laughing so hard, my ribs are cracking. Great and funny posts.
    HP forums are the best.
    My opinion? MJ i think makes you think and can give you great creativity and inspiration.

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    David Bowmanposted 15 years ago

    There's no telling how many animals we wouldn't have today if Noah had toked up on some reefer. Can anyone say "munchies"?

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    Colebabieposted 15 years ago

    I could go either way with the debate. There are reasons why weed should be illegal. But in my own family, and in most others, I see alcohol as more of a problem. Weed has been the source of arguments between my brother and my parents, but it hasn't caused any serious harm, yet.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I'm not trying to jump on you or anything, I would like to know what areas you think it should be illegal. I think it should only be illegal until a person is 18.

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          Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Well my sister is 18, and she tried weed for the first time, had an anxiety attack, called 911, rode in an ambulance, and was in the emergency room for a night. Not a pleasant experience. I was called out of work and told my sister was in an accident and to go to the hospital. She'll never try pot again. If it was legal, it would have to be regulated? Which means big companies? I dunno.

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             With all due respect, I haven't heard many cases like this one however I appreciate you bringing it up. Do you think a case like the one with your sister should have weed illegal when it has many good purposes?
             
             I think the government is scared that they will not be able to regulate and tax growth or either they do not want the public to use a thinkers drug.

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                Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I work in health promotions at a university. My sister's case is not uncommon. Does marijuana have many good purposes? Of course. Should it be denied to those who need it? Of course not. However, I'm not sure what providing it to the general public would do.

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                   marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   I'm not educated enough on the medicinal advantages of weed. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on that will comment. I will say from the mental standpoint that it works beyond wonders for stress and anxiety.

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                      Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Yes, for you. While some others may become extremely anxious and stressed. I know this isn't in most cases, however, just like certain medications, there will always be different effects.

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                Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Yes it will be difficult to regulate. While brewing companies have been in America for decades and are regulated, as well as tobacco companies (although both are iffy)... would there be weed manufacturers? Would this decrease the amount of home growers and sellers? It is not "thinkers drug" that they "fear" but rather the effects of legalizing something that can be grown an modified in one's home, and the actual effects of the drug itself.

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                   marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   I agree with your comments. I truly have a "high" suspicion that it being a "thinkers drug" has some role to play. Why do they drink in religion but not smoke weed? Maybe the religious would question or debate the religion if they were stoned.

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                      Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Not sure what you mean specifically about "thinkers" drug? Could you explain? Maybe religious figures did smoke? Who knows? As far as comparing it to alcohol use, possibly it was easier to drink because it was more available. I don't know the complete history of the plant, but it tends to grow better in certain areas. Like where I just came from vacation

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                         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         I "guarantee" religious leaders smoked bud while the followers likely did not. How else would a prophet see God in a flame of bushes?
                         
                         On the thinker drug comment, I do not know the physics behind it's working. I can tell you that deep thoughts and ideas for most some people run very "analytical" when baked. With some it may slow the mind down, with others it may increase depth or debate in thought. Again, I don't know the medical terms or how this happens.

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                            Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            Again, not sure if pot was grown in the area. Other hallucinogen, maybe? As far as being a "thinkers" drug.... sure some people have expansive thought while under the influence of drugs or medications. Many of the world's "geniuses" were stoned off their asses. Kary Mullis who developed PCR for amplifying DNA was on LSD when he came up with the idea. However, I don't think the government fears this. Edgar Allan Poe used opium, but he also died at the age of 40.

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                               marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               About the examples of people you used, I find this very interesting that all of these people pretty much wrote their own books in life. If weed makes people stupid like religion or politicians will say for their part of the debate, why are over half of the philosophers, geniuses, inventors, probably baked. Possibly because they think without boundaries? I think this has a lot to do with it.
                               
                               
                               I know Ray Charles and others used heroin, LSD, others, I don't agree with this. I only think weed should be legal with the others that are highly addictive or fatal being illegal.

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                                  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  Well my examples weren't weed, but being a hallucinogen I guess it could have the same effect. Do I think weed makes people stupid? No. But it can do other things. Thinking without boundaries, sure. You say you don't agree with LSD but with pot? Yes many geniuses were "baked" but on pot, I'm not so sure, other drugs, yes. But that doesn't mean they should be legal.

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                                     marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                     lol I would have to say no to agreeing with LSD being legal.The effects of LSD are unpredictable. This is why. I know what i'm doing and what i'm seeing when I smoke bud. The results are also "predictable". I don't think anything should be considered legal with an unpredictable result.

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                            Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            OK, think you need to take a wide berth on the term "thinker drug."  Free thought?  There's no doubt that when a person is more relaxed the mouth opens more and a less inhibited person may feel free to say what's on his mind.  Major limits to the effects of weed on the mind.  Think of caffeine (not totally a good example), but initially it clears the mind, it's a stimulant.  Taken to the extreme you are wired and other chemical reactions occur.  Being wired doesn't make you intelligent.  Can make you anxious.  When caffeine wears off, it's like being dumped on.
                            
                            With the case of marijuana, you can get stimulated (or not).  Have you ever noticed the amount of bullshit that comes out of a stoned persons mouth.  Major limits to the positive effects of marijuana on the mind.  Doesn't take long before you are incoherent and talking like a possessed alien.
                            
                            Thinker drug?  I've never heard of this term before.

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                               marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               Lol What have I written that looks like an alien?

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                               Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               are you smoking it now?  Look at the context in which it was written.  Hey I have to go out for awhile, I'll be back to get your wrath.

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Here is the contradiction in our laws. A fresh recruit can enter the military straight from highschool. They can sign the paperwork while still in highschool. Our government will put a rifle in an 18yo's hand, expect them to kill and watch friends be killed, yet the soldier/marine and not allowed to smoke some bud? Maybe that would make the marine or soldier question the motives behind the orders and the wars they are fighting if they smoked. Scary thought. If anyone can explain logic in this, please do.

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       Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Or have a drink for that matter. It is just the way our culture has developed. Alcohol is not a part of a meal but rather a way to get drunk. MADD won't let the drinking age be lowered, rightfully so I suppose, since most Americans drink to get drunk. Weed, again, is not a part of our culture, but an illegal substance that is normally used at a certain point in someone's life. It's hard to change precedence.

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I would like to make a comment on alcohol compared to weed. I do think alcohol should be illegal until at least 21. From my time in the Marines and Working in a bar, I have seen countless people destroyed from alcohol use. I have "never" seen weed do "anywhere" the damage of alcohol. I don't like to use alcohol as a comparison because non stoners will say I'm just using alcohol to justify weed. However, the results are in for those who want to be real, weed simply does not compare to the damage from alcohol usage.

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             Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I was using alcohol as a comparison when discussing culture and precedent. I wouldn't use alcohol as a comparison of negative effects.

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    \Brenda Scullyposted 15 years ago

    This is an extremely disrespectful hub in my most humble opinion.......

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Do you drink? Noah drank? Is wine better? Good thing Noah didn't have a car, he would have gotten a DUI. How is this thread disrespectful? For using thought?
       
       
       In all due respect, I forgot that religion does not use logic.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Disrespectful to whom?

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    \Brenda Scullyposted 15 years ago

    er ...... Noah, and people who believe in that account, what is it about anyway....

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       How can you be disrespectful to an imaginary dead guy and people who believe that account? 

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    onthewritesideposted 15 years ago

    Some religions smoke weed.  Remember that church down in Florida?  LOL!  Anyway, of all the stoners I have ever had the pleasure of knowing, I can think of only one that had "bad effects" from smoking pot.
    
    As far as alcohol being more dangerous to society?  I would have to agree with that whole-heartedly.

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       Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah I live in Florida. As far as "bad effects" I know quite a few students who have had them. Alcohol being more of a danger, yes I think we can agree on that. But I'm not in the 9th grade anymore and I have stuff to do... so I choose not to smoke Dinner with friends after working all week, yes I'll have a glass of wine. And lung cancer runs in my family, for every year you smoke on a regular basis your chance increases 7%.

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    \Brenda Scullyposted 15 years ago

    so now you are being disrespectful to me, but if you and I ever agreed on anything I would really worry, but I do like you, don't know why, I am just a respectful kinda person I suppose x

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       Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I think Mark is just wondering what about the forum makes it disrespectful. I think it is perfectly fine to question the past.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Then you should respect my opinion that the account of Noah is complete garbage and never happened.
       
       I never said I did not like you either. Guess I am just a respectful person at heart.

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    I'm waiting for someone to throw a waterboy line in, "weed is the devil!"

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    onthewritesideposted 15 years ago

    hey marine....I left you a post to "smoke on" over at your atheist thread...

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    enderw1gginsposted 15 years ago

    OK, what if Noah picked the shrooms from all the animal feces? He would be the ancient psychedelic Timothy Leary..man. Have you ever read the bible? Have you ever read the Bible....on weed?
    Man...wheels within wheels, seas parting...proof of total stonerisms man. The bible is groovy and far out man!
    Wait what if instead of King David, he was actually Chong? That would change things man.
    I made some killer sandals out of hemp. It was sooo heavy man!

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    Davinagirl3posted 15 years ago

    Weed is considered a "gateway" drug because it is illegal.  I was buying weed once, like when I was in college, and I thought "primo" meant "good weed", as in premium.  When I found out what it really was, I was shocked.  This would not happen if it was legal.  Dealers are criminals and would try to sell cocaine to a pothead who didn't know any better.  If it was legal, all this "gateway" nonsense would be squelched.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I love when some will bring the "gate way" drug up. How exactly do they know that the individual wouldn't have went to another drug "without" smoking bud? How do they know that the alcohol they got tanked on wasn't the gateway drug? Every idea to keep it illegal is irrational. This is why little to no people have written to say it should be illegal.

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          Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I can see the dangers of marijuana, it's more the cellular damage of the brain.  Could also say alcohol should be banned also because of the destruction it can cause on the drinker, and the flow on effects this has on families and child abuse.  That's an experiential knowledge there.
          
          I advocate it's controlled us in medical situations.
          
          You know, at the end of the day you could say sugar should be banned also.  It's causing so much havoc on society as it also is mind altering, but not to the extend alcohol and marijuana is.
          
          If you need to learn to relax and chill out there are other ways of doing it that don't need drugs.  Full on meditators (I'm not talking the new agers who use it for positive thinking), have proven that marijuana and magic mushrooms - mind altering drugs used to go into blissful states are limiting.  The spaces of a non drug user compared to a drug user are much different.
          
          So I guess be really careful with the weed cause you may end up in some space you had no control over going to.  That's the main difference, you are out of control in your state of consciousness.

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             LOl I will respectfully and kindly disagree. The last statement was entirely false. You want to ban sugar also? Anything else? Ridiculous, how can you agree to ban everything you don't agree with? Do you think meditation would work for everyone because it works for you? Doesn't work this way. I would like to theorize with any of the people who claim that thought is limited when stoned. Please explain how I am out of my consciousness when stoned?

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                Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                On the sugar subject - firstly it's also a drug, it's a stimulant and the majority of the world's population is addicted to it.  Besides a person's will power to abstain, the main causes of obesity are sugar, sodium and fats.  The vast majority of processed foods contain all of these ingredients.  The ability to get free of these substances is akin to giving up heroin.  And considering it's more difficult to get off cigarettes than heroin, imagine what it takes to get off sugar, sodium and fats (processed foods).  Coca Cola is full of caffeine - it's a drug, is also full of sugar.  Nicely addictive isn't it.
                
                Consciousness is massively limited when stoned.  You are not in control for starters.  I've had the privilege to have experienced both, so unless you have done substantial periods of meditation perhaps you need to do some before you can comment.
                
                With weed, you usually stay in a boundary.  You think wow, this is groovy, but there is a ceiling, definitely a ceiling.  Is so funny, when you come out of a meditation it's not unusual to say "who needs drugs."  It's so amazing.  Thing with meditation there is a very marked sense of physical and mental wellbeing.  With weed, there is a fog, a heaviness that hangs around.  Often the immediate withdrawal from marijuana can trigger emotion - not always, but basically you are back where you were before you inhaled.

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                   marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   "Thought is massively limited when stoned.  You are not in control for starters"
                   
                   Wrong again. Thought is not limited when it has no barriers. How do you know if i'm in control of myself? This is an irrational statement. How can I pick out your irrational statement when you aren't limited right now?
                   
                   "With weed, you usually stay in a boundary.  You think wow, this is groovy, but there is a ceiling, definitely a ceiling."
                   
                   This was your experience. I am picking out your irrational statements rather than staring at the ceiling.
                   
                   I will honestly say that I cannot comment too much on meditation because I have not tried it. However, bud seems more entertaining.

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                      Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      OK that's fine if you want to have your hallucinogenic experiences.  To say I'm wrong is
                      limited to your own experiences - that's cool.  Try it without the dope and then get back to me we can then compare notes.

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                         sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         I will compare notes with you.  Though I do object to the "groovy" statement.
                         
                         Some Buddhist monks do use mild drugs such as marijuana before they meditate.  You would think a monk is a pretty good mediator with or without the use, so why would one chose it one day and not the next?
                         
                         Have done both, I can say sometimes when stoned I cannot meditate because my mind is too busy to slow down.
                         
                         On the other hand, sometimes my sober mind is to busy I need help slowing down.  I would get stoned.
                         
                         I would say the use of marijuana is subjective when it comes to meditation. However I will say that after words, the results are the same. 
                         
                         If I was stone, I feel sober when I am done.  If I was sober I feel quite stoned when I am done.

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                            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            Sandra you need better hooch, with more THC Delta9

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                               sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               I save that for rainy days!

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                            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            Excellent thought you added Sandra or maybe it looked excellent from my limited mind with barriers.

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                               Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 Sorry if I've offended, not my intention.

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                                  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  Jewels, I am not offended, I promise. I value your opinion as much if not more than someone that would agree with me for the questions your belief brings. I simply disagree with some of your comments. I am simply stating in my individual experiences, I an conscious at all times. Maybe some have rarely experienced some of the sides you mentioned however me or anyone I know has never experienced them.

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                            Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            I can't quote writings, but am aware that Buddhists, Buddhist teachers in fact did use drugs to induce alternate states of consciousness.  They in fact wanted them to take them to where they were told they could reach through meditation.  Apparently it worked for awhile, but it's through their own experiences that they found out that it limits the mind - or limits consciousness and does not help in the long run.  Even Buddhist Monks have bad days!
                            
                            Meditation is a discipline and in the beginning the mind is the enemy.  Interesting you can start out having experiences of a fairly quiet mind - say you did 10 days with a teacher, you may get fairly good results.  Then all of a sudden the mind starts to go crazy.  You'd think that after your initial 10 days you would have got somewhere.  It doesn't work that way.  Mastering the chitta - the ceaseless and stupid chatter - is something to overcome through discipline.  If you take marijuana you've created an addiction already to it being the way to quieten the mind.  I use the term addiction loosely there - I don't mean having a 12 step program addiction.  You've used an outside influence to assist with an internal state - it's a crux.
                            
                            Sandra, respecting your experiences. Am wondering what it is you are wanting out of meditation.  If it's relaxation then go for it, if it's to learn to quieten the mind and discipline it and find your 'centre,' marijuana won't help in the long run.
                            
                            Yikes, I think I'm making a light thread heavy. Sorry people.

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                               marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               Please explain to me more on meditation if you don't mind. Please explain how meditation will cross over conscious thought? What if one doesn't need to sit in silence to get into deep thought? I think weed and meditation would be a good debate.

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                                  dennisemattposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  you mean like...if your in a crowded room and suddenly you realize someone is waving thier obnoxous hand in your face saying  "DOOOOODE!!! Wake up!!!" or my personal favorite..."HELOOO!!Anybody in there?"

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                                     marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                     lol yeah, I guess that could be considered an example of deep thought.

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                                  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  Ultimately meditation is about getting out of the mind.  States of consciousness are many and varied, many layers, many spaces
                                  
                                  No doubt deep thought is pensive and there is an element of involution. Nevertheless deep thought is still thoughts.  Rhyme and Reason is a great topic and becomes massive when you get into it.  I spent allot of time last year doing that.  I ended up creating structures, like snakes and ladders type of structures sorting out the if then, therefores.  It was still very mindy.  Contemplative of course.

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                                     marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                     Please explain "getting out of the mind"? I'm already out of my mind sober, literally, near insanity. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to figure this meditation thing out.

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                               sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               It's a little more than that Jewels.  Though I do respect what you are saying.  So let's take this a little further.
                               
                               We know that we can create new neuro pathways n the brain.  I am guessing that your thinking is that the use of drugs limits the pathways and ultimately limits the ability to reach the state of nirvana, yes?
                               
                               Now consider.  The use of a drug to induce other states of consciousness opens other neurological pathways that normally wouldn't be reached in a sober state. 
                               
                               The purpose of the use is to generate other new connections that were not previously there before.  It is a disciple, reaching and opening and connecting as much of the brain as possible. 
                               
                               I think you are saying that it is not possible for while under the influence, yet I know that while one is being closed off, another is opened... It is a fact that the use of marijuana does not "destroy" neurons but has a "sleeping" effect.  After a person has stopped using it, it returns to it's original state.
                               
                               Now when I say I do use it when my mind is going too fast, I am intentionally slowing down my mind because I cannot focus and likewise sometimes my mind is feels numb and needs "pick up".
                               
                               Drug use that is not abuse is a respectable disciple that works to achieve a particular balance.  One that is otherwise unknown if the person use is not objective.
                               
                               All in all it works to achieve a balance.  However I know that some people are "allergic" in a sense and do not like the effect that pot has on them and chose not to use it.  I respect this very much and wouldn't tell someone to use it just because it works for me.
                               
                               However for those that do use it, I would suggest a mindful exploration into the state of mind interconnectedness just for the sake of awareness in an altered state. 
                               
                               -in other words, think yourself sober.
                               
                               The use of marijuana does have a "short term memory loss" property to it but the memory loss is recovered once the neurons wake up and rebuild their original connects.
                               
                               What is left is a brain that not only established new connections that remain but has also recovered the ones "asleep" and from there has also built new highways. 
                               
                               So the use of the drug has a function that broadens a person mind.
                               
                               Medical use of marijuana is used for several reason and they use the same gateways in the brain because the psychedelic effects are useful for personal healing.
                               
                               Meaning the psychological role marijuana plays on the mind to heal it's body is important.

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                                  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  Excellent, Very Informational. I can say from personal experience that weed works wonders for me with controlling thoughts and emotions. I have never been diagnosed with ADD, however I will lose complete focus on train of thought when sober. When you mentioned "balance", I completely agree with this.

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                                     sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                     And your prolly the most intelligent Marine I have talked to!

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                                        marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                        lol I appreciate that. It's the weed

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                                           earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                           This is a balanced view of drug use. The whole process of thought is chemical, and we are as individuals, unique chemical processes, so you are right. MJ is not for everyone.. The marijuana neural pathways do not need to be established, they are already there in the CNS. Modern man goes to the doctor because he is depressed and needs seratonin re-uptake inhibitors to access the most commonly deficient brain chemical..... seretonin. Stress and modern life has meant this set of "mood modifying" drugs are used extensively around the world with famous names like Prozac. The other thing we need to be sane is access to dopamine.
                                           Marijuana makes changes to the brain that has a fast effect on mood, whereas the others can take 6 weeks to work even slightly, and most treatment with common anti-depressants fails.
                                           Anti-depressant drugs have uses in pain management as well.
                                           I have written this from memory, but any one who wants to know the whole drug technical data can go to David Pearce's "good drug guide" at hedweb. He has the definitive site on drugs.
                                           Keep on tokin, It isn't hurting your thinking!

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                                              marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                              Excellent information earnest, thanks for adding. And some people say stoners are stupid. It's stoner conspiracy! lol

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                                  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  I agree in part to what you are pointing out.  Marijuana is useful to a point.  It's a temporary fix for a problem.  All medications/drugs are a temporary fix until the body copes and heals itself and you find the pathways without the crux.
                                  
                                  Meditation is to get your out of the mind and out of your body, literally.  It's an ultimate goal.  The brain is a physical element of the body and there is no question we limit it's use because of our inability to expand the pathways available. 
                                  
                                  There is a hub I've done about meditation and thoughts being beyond the brain.   So that basically answers how to slow down thought - get out of the brain to start with.  If you watch thought you see they are not in the brain but above it.  This is a common experience with meditators.  You learn to watch them and can feel them come down into the brain.  the brain is stimulated and off go the nerves and we respond and do stuff.
                                  
                                  What you can see when you slow down thoughts and watch where they emanate from, they come from above your head and not in them.  There is a process that can be taught to hold them above. and tap into them, instead of letting them fall into your the head.  I also did a hub about the light bulb being above the head.  Now I never made that up, that comic scene has been seen in many tv programs and comic strips.  Why does a light bulb go on above the head and not in it?  How many people turn their eyes upward when they get an idea.  It's a reflex action because something knows it's not inside the head but above it.
                                  
                                  Too much stimuli of thought can send people crazy, can limit sleep, can give headaches, can cause anxiety, etc. etc. Stress is related to the inability to manage these thoughts.  Too much stimuli creates heightened nerves and for many reasons, often emotional, stress is the result.
                                  
                                  Marijuana and meditation - It limits physically and metaphysically.  You've heard of chi, Chinese medicine is based on it.  Now you can't see the energy meridians, they would not show up on an xray machine, but they are there.  Marijuana, like cigarettes are a toxin and overuse blocks meridians.  Now as well as meridians being in the body they are also outside of it.  Meditators rely on these (called subtle bodies in Steiners work)  When these meridians are blocked the ability to expand pathways (similar to the brain) above the head is limited.  You create a ceiling effect.  It's just like arteries being blocked only these layers are subtle.  They are not subtle however, to a full time meditator.  When you do allot of meditation you become very sensitive to outside stimuli.  It's like when people speak, it's like they are yelling at you.  And your smells are heightened, you see things differently, and you feel more.  What one could easily tolerate can become intolerable.

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                                     marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                     I will try the meditation thing a time or two just so I can explain how weed is better lol. Thanks for your explanations.

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                         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         I am respectfully saying you are wrong to judge my mindset. You say my thought has barriers? I will debate thought if you wish and we will see who has barriers. This is an irrational statement. Only I know my mindset. As to the meditation, I didn't say I wouldn't ever try it, I just said bud is more appealing.

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    WE MUST HAVE STRONGER MAIJUANA LAWS!!!
    The Marijuana is not strong enough.

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    Jewelsposted 15 years ago

    Control seems a silly word to use when going into altered states. With marijuana you say you want to be out of control, like that's the whole reason?  Not sure what the individual's reason is for doing it.  Thing is with meditation you are consciousness of the spaces and you have some navigating choices with it.  Difficult to explain this one.  Lets say with drugs you lose center, with meditation you have a perspective of self.  Even though when you reach Self (Atman - an ultimate state of meditation) you can lose consciousness.  With weed you will never get to that state.  It may not be your aim, fair enough.  But it shows the ceiling, the limitation.

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    JonTutorposted 15 years ago

    @Jewels Thanks for the wonderful fan letter.... It's difficult to explain things when the other person hasn't had similar experiences or at least is open to the possibility.... I have had some past life experiences which very few can understand... for others it might be crazy talk.

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       Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I've heard lots of past life stories - you won't scare me there.  Though at the end of the day it's about how they relate to you in this life.
       
       I agree, a person can feel like an island at times.  We need to build more bridges and be open!

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    my-success-guruposted 15 years ago

    I don't know if Noah smoked that stuff but I hear he had a really big boat LOL

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I would love to see how many cubits long and wide the boat would be to carry 2X all the species on the planet!

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          my-success-guruposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          And how do you round up all those animals when America wasn't even discovered yet LOL

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             You use the divine animal whistle. lol

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    cindyvineposted 15 years ago

    Maybe he did smoke weed and that's why some animals look funny as he paired them wrongly and they mated and created strange new species

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Ah, now that would explain a lot.

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          Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I agree, something went mayonnaise with some of those beasts.

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          sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          that or the boat wasn't big enough to support the dinosaurs...thus extinction.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       good stuff

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Jewels, please add your thoughts on what happens to thoughts during meditation?

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    dennisemattposted 15 years ago

    ANYWAY I missed the part where Noah got drunk and naked? I always thought weed was illegal cuz everyone smokes it, so they can take anything they want from you and say its "evidence." money, cars, dogs, houses...whatever...as long as you got some weed in there....I had no idea it was Noah's fualt.
    Oh, but I just thought of something, if Noah HAD to have had some on the boat, or we wouldnt have any now...also, Moses saw the burning bush...

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    When getting out of the mind, do you mean losing emotion, hate for love, ego, interferrence, outside existence, ego?

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       Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       totally no emotion.  More feeling, but feeling is not the same as emotion in this instant.  Have to understand there is a difference.  Emotion is always responsive, generally it's reaction.  Feeling is more a state of being.  Bliss is being out of the mind, it's a feeling state. Glorious.
       
       Interesting, when you come out of the state, you wonder why you had no thoughts.  It's weird.  You think you tricked the mind in some way, but really you were not engaging it.
       
       Love has different meanings.  Love of pizza is not the same as love of a divine source (call that what ever you want).  High states of consciousness feel like a state of bliss which is really full on love.  Has no connotations of anything other than it just Being.  So it's beyond the love a mother has for a child even, but saying that - usually the love a mother has for her child is a good way of coming close to describing the feeling of being in bliss.
       
       And you don't feel your body.  That's a great indication that you are out of your normal state of consciousness.  You can be in cross legged position, straight back, meditation position, you're involuted so much you have left your physical body, or more your mind has turned away from the physical and into something more astral.
       
       Now it's after midnight. I must recuperate.

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          When you say getting out of mind, I don't think I have ever been in my mind. Could you give me a short summary step by step of how you enter the state of meditation? If you haven't already, please let me know how meditation has changed your life. Are you happier, joyful, ?
          
          
          Can you give me an example of a specific idea or thought that meditation helped you on?

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