Let's have a polite discussion of religious beliefs

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  1. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 11 years ago

    good 4 u   Bye ! smileI'm leaving as well

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I answered you...been busy.

  2. easyspeak profile image67
    easyspeakposted 11 years ago

    Hey Ron,

    You can't prove that God exists.  But you can't prove that he doesn't exist either.  Thus, your agnosticism feels rational based on scientific evidence, because you can't prove it either way.

    In light of that, you have to ask, which one has a greater consequence?  I wrote this in one of my hubs about Pascal's Wager.  This is basically why Pascal thought believing in God was the most rational decision.

    There are four possibilities with four results.

    Possibility #1: God doesn't exist and we don't believe. Result: We had a great life living the way we want.  There is no after life, so nothing happens after we die.

    Possibility #2: God doesn't exist and we choose to believe.  Result: We had a harder life, one where we are self-less, sacrificing and possibly suffering for our faith.  There is no after life, so again, although we had a more difficult life than the former, nothing happens after we die.

    Possibility #3: God does exist and we don't believe.  Result: We're screwed and go to hell.  We had a great 70-80 years of pleasure, but now we suffer in hell for eternity.

    Possibility #4: God does exist and we choose to believe.  Result: We lived a hard life, but we have eternal pleasure in heaven.

    I believe God exists because He has proven it to me enough, but it will never be enough where it won't require faith.  All I'm saying is, looking at the scientific lack of evidence for or against the existence of God, you should really try to find out the answer for yourself because of the eternal consequences.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I've heard this argument.  Problem is, it is bible based, and I know enough about that collection of stories to accept it for what it is:  Some books of decent writing that even have good suugestions about how to live your life; and some absolute trash about serving kings, women being subserviant to their masters (men) and the ultimate myth about hell.  I am agnostic, meaning I don't know whether or not a higher power exists, but I have no doubt whatsoever that the god of the bible is a complete fabrication.

      1. easyspeak profile image67
        easyspeakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        How can you be so unsure about things but be so sure that the god of the bible is surely fabricated?  It takes faith to believe that.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I refer to it as individual truth and logic.

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          No, I don't rely on faith to come to logical conclusions.  There is a great deal of information available through many media that explains how the bible came to be.  Modern investigative techniques used by literary critics have shed much light on the origins and purposes of many of the bible's books.  Are you familiar with the book "Q", the root source of the synoptic gospels?  No copy has ever been found, yet we know of it's existence. 

          No faith involved in my knowledge of the bible; just pure, objective facts.

      2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
        quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Hummmm...an agnostic who doubts about GOD being real is telling us he has "no doubt whatsoever" that the GOD of the bible is a complete facbrication"

        Interesting that a double minded man is now teaching us he has no doubt...LOL ROFLOL!!! big_smile

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I of course have never said I have doubts about the existence of the god portrayed in the bible.  I am absolutely certain that that entity never has existed.  I have taught you "the truth" about posting in all caps and using bold type.  Would my prophet now like to plumb the depths of emoticons? yikes

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            to quote you
            "meaning I don't know whether or not a higher power exists."

            To say one does not know is by definition admitting doubt.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              h i g h e r  p o w e r  in the English language is not an alternate spelling of G o d.

  3. profile image0
    Crazdwriterposted 11 years ago

    I'm raised Roman Catholic and I do consider myself Catholic though a more open minded catholic. Two of my best friends are Witnesses and we have discussions about religion. We don't find over it just comare what is the same and what is different.

    I enjoy learning about other religions and hate when people fight over religion. My favorite bumper sticker that two other best friend has is Coexist in the symbols of different religions. I am thinking of joining my two friends at the Universal Unitarian Church where everyone are welcome and we don't discuss religion but other topics. A place where everyone feels welcome and religious differences aren't an issue.

    1. earnestshub profile image85
      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am a not religious, but that does seem more democratic!

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        If religious differences weren't an issue, would it be religion?

        1. profile image0
          Crazdwriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know if it would be a religion, all I know is that it's great! I mean shoot even Athiest go to this churhc. :-)

  4. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 11 years ago

    Why would a divine being need a man to write a book for him, with religion assuming it's a him. Why would a divine being make the book only logical to a follower mind and not an individual mind?

    1. Bibowen profile image93
      Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If He is a divine being, he does not need anything. What need would a self-sufficient being have?

      1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
        quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Right, HE does not "need" anything, HE gave, we receive. HE freely gives, we receive, we should freely give as we have been given.

        Truth be told, people who believe in GOD, weather you like them or hate them, they GIVE more than anyone else does. They that know this principle that is.

        And HIS logic transcends your understanding capacity, HE stands alone, needs nothing, He gave words to us just like I do my kids, they do not understand them often, but I do not have to explain my logic to them either. I AM IN CHARGE of my family and my children and they follow my instructions because I love them.

        Shalom

        1. earnestshub profile image85
          earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I find it interesting that the biblical god has so many needs.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image61
            Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What in the hell does God need us for? Oh! I answered my own question. LOL

          2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            NAME ONE...NO, NAME TEN

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Polite discussion precludes the constant use of all caps, which is very rude.  Please clean it up, Thank you.

            2. earnestshub profile image85
              earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry I don't take orders, smile
              I'll give you one that you can find hundreds of references for of the top.. That god wants to be worshiped. Psychotic insecure and needy. not my idea of omnipotent!

              1. Bibowen profile image93
                Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                OK, we're waiting. But if you are just going to give us verses that indicate God should be worshiped or that God commands people to worship Him, they will not do. You need to show us verses that explicitly show a need on God's part.

                If a parent demands respect from a child, that does not necessarily show a need for respect on the parent's part. Rather, the parent knows that if the child shows respect, it will be better for that child.

                Similarly, God could demand these things that, on the surface, seem to indicate that He craves them (like being worshiped and adored). But it is not necessarily true. If the God of the Bible exists, then he does not need anything from us. As a self-sufficient being, what need could he possible have?

                1. Misha profile image66
                  Mishaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  It does. Those who don't need don't demand. smile

                  1. Earthscribe profile image75
                    Earthscribeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Cheers

                  2. Bibowen profile image93
                    Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Trite and false. If you are a parent, you know that statement isn't necessarily true. A police officer who demands that a suspect stop has no necessary, psychological need for that suspect to stop. It's an order; as an agent of the state, he carries it out. His ego may enter into the event, but it does not do so of necessity.

                    It's also false if we are talking about the God of the Bible. That God is a necessary, self-sufficient being. By definition of who that God is, He has need of nothing. It's one thing if you don't believe in that God, but it's simply false to say that the God of the Bible has a need for something. It makes no sense for you (if you are an atheist) to argue "God does not exist and he has needs that are fulfilled by the forced worship of His creatures."

                    Perhaps you see it that way because you view the world that way. That is, you only make demands because you have a personal need that those commands be fulfilled. Consider that.

                2. earnestshub profile image85
                  earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I thought it unnecessary to show supportive scripture for the biblical god's insecurity and neurosis, it is all over the bible, my dog could find the references!
                  The only way I know to get respect is to earn it.Screaming that your gomma be tortured for a few million years if you don't worship me is not the way I keep the respect of my children.

                  1. Bibowen profile image93
                    Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    None of the things you say here are reflective of what the Bible says about God. As for your dog, give the pupster a chance; perhaps he'll have better luck than you.

                  2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    You just do not understand, so one more time as you still find a need to mock GOD.

                    Definition of worship (idolize: love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol, show devotion to, a feeling of profound love and admiration)...

                    You say "HE wants to be worshiped"
                    Wrong, you are the one who worships, we all worship something, HE knows what is best for you in that BECAUSE you worship, HE just gives you the best offer and it is not out of need anymore than a rich man NEEDS something from a beggar. HE does NOT need your worship, you are the one in need of worshiping HIM.

                    HE does not need anything from you, so embrace it and stop trying to get HIM to answer to you. HE does not "NEED TO" answer to you because HE has no needs...period!!!

                    HE has given you life and breath, you will give an account for what you have done with it.

                    A parent does not need to answer a child, they chose to.

                    GOD has no weakness. Only a fool says there is no GOD

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Exactly a divine being wouldn't need anything or request anything. This would be intervention of free will.

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      God works through man and man is god. The book is aimed at the individual who can understand and follow, its for everyone.

      1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
        quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Man is NOT God...GOD IS GOD, men are created, GOD is not created.
        Men do not have the power of GOD, that is a joke.

        And, only he who has ears to hear what God says can obey HIM, not "everyone" can hear HIS voice, much less obey it.

        An individual who hears HIS voice, can either follow or go they're own way. The choice is yours and your choice will echooooo in eternity.

        Shalom

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          "The kingdom of god is within you" Jesus and the other masters were not joking.
          This is the meaning of enlightenment, knowing your inner self , knowing god the Light is you.
          This is why Jesus said "I am the Light".

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You are missing the point, GOD is alone The King, The Ruler, The All-Mighty and no man is HIS equal, period. He is Holy and set apart from sin. Men can be called (judges, little god in Hebrew) but they are NOT GOD as in All-Mighty...big difference.

            Messiah is THE LIGHT, we can shine like HIS LIGHT, but we are NOT THE LIGHT. Period, We have to know HIM in order to do this. We must confess HIM as LORD and SAVIOR. Confess our sins to HIM too. HE alone is LIGHT AND TRUTH. (I am using CAPS because I always try to when referring to HIM out of respect.)

            Yahshua (Jesus) was NOT "one of the 'many' masters"...HE is THE MASTER and HE IS GOD All-Mighty. Period. Any so called masters who claim to be equal with Jesus are liars!!!

            HE IS the visible IMAGE of the invisible GOD...everyone else is created.

            No man is HIS equal. Period

            1. earnestshub profile image85
              earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              And so with an ego the size of a small country you believe that out of the thousands of religions and beliefs in the world, your belief alone is the only right one.
              A bit like buying a ticket in a lotto then claiming that because you have one ticket you are the winner!

              1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I quote Messiah, He said HE is THE ONLY WAY, If you do not like it, then move on. It's not MY belief, it it HIS TRUTH

                HE is "the ticket"...Messiah said what HE said and it is THE TRUTH...again, you can take it up with HIM.

                HE is NOT a religion....HE IS LIFE and THE CREATOR. HE is GOD.

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I have already gained enlightenment, didn't need Jesus or any prophet.Today I spread god knowledge exactly like Jesus did in his time.
                  God gets irritated when someone praises their prophet and negates other great prophets this planet has seen.

                  1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    One more time, only a fool says there is not GOD.
                    Jesus is THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE...HE said it and HE is THE TRUTH...anything else is a lie and belongs to liars

            2. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              All prophets and masters are equal and Jesus is not the greatest, this is wrong philosophy.
              When you get to know yourself you get to know god, the light is you.
              The Light is within and you have three stages man- god-man and god. Its on death that man fuses with totality with god- becomes god, till he is in the human body he is limited.

              HE IS the visible IMAGE of the invisible GOD...everyone else is created.
              Everything is the visible image of the invisible god or light.
              Every human has the potential to become a Christ-Period.

              1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                What you said is an absolute lie and you are a liar for stating it.

                1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Not really understanding the whole politeness concept are we?

                2. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  If I am a liar so was Jesus.
                  http://find.franklin.com/nav/ca/spiritu … r/ebooks/0
                  1.Holy Bible, King James Version
                  3.Ponder Awhile-Mohit.K.Misra
                  4.Holy Bible, King James Version

                  1. aka-dj profile image75
                    aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    1. $39.95
                    2.$1.50
                    3.$26.95 if my memory serves me correctly! lol lol lol
                    I wonder what rating it would have if you charged similar price. lol lol lol

        2. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Not a big fan of listening when some one gives you the truth then?

          The TRUTH is, as has already been explained to you, is that using CAPS is the online version of shouting and considered rude.

          The accepted way of emphasizing your irrational beliefs is to use bold or italics.

          You can even use them together for something extra irrational. wink

          Ramen

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yup, I did not know one could do that, now I understand the format tips better...I get it. And that is the truth. If I raise my voice, I will make that clear.

            By the way, I am still waiting for an answer from you Mark.

            You said you had the truth, so go ahead say on smile

        3. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          An Individual who hears your Gods voice is not logic or an individual in my belief. These are not individual beliefs. They are drawn from the bible and religious teachings.

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The term "logic" came from the Greek word logos.
            GOD is the ultimate logic...In the beginning was THE LOGOS (logic)
            Only a fool says there is no GOD

            1. earnestshub profile image85
              earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I do not appreciate being branded a fool, especially from someone who doesn't have enough guts to even question their totally illogical beliefs. You want to get a handle on your mouth!

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You are absolutely wrong through logic. The bible is aimed at the "follower" mind. The individual mind will see truth when reading. The individual mind does not pick the parts that it wants to believe.

  5. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    Frankly put...HE does not answer to us or to you.

    He does not run a democracy.

    Shalom

  6. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    HE no more answers to you than a General answers to a Private.

  7. Bibowen profile image93
    Bibowenposted 11 years ago

    I believe the biblical teaching is that God gave us life so that we might enjoy Him. I think it's the Westminster Confession that says that man's purpose is to enjoy God forever. It really has nothing to do with need. We did not need God prior to our existence; God certainly does not need us.

    I don't know if you can see the wonder of that or not. It's not based on need; it's based in love.

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Amen...well said brother.

  8. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    ~~~(2ND POSTING)~~~

    Religion can be "man made" and for the most part what we see today is just that. It is not pure. It has been adulterated by lies while maintaining an appearance of truth. This keeps the sheep at the feeding troff and the building full.

    A relationship is quite another matter. We need to ask ourselves just one question and that would be.

    DO WE WANT TO KNOW AND HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRUTH???

    Do we want to know the answer to the question "what is truth?"

    So what is truth? Not your truth, because that can contain even the slightest lie or error. Not my truth, because it could contain the same.

    We are welcome to "our opinion" but, they are tainted far to often and they vary from moment to moment, person to person, they can be changed when more of THE TRUTH is revealed to us, so an opinion is shaky.

    My truth and your truth are both impure and limited in understanding.

    THE TRUTH stands above anyones opinion or point of view, because THE TRUTH is not subject to making an error or lying. THE PURE TRUTH cannot be deceived at all. Men often get some truth and quickly twist it and destroy many with mindless religion.

    THE TRUTH cannot be changed by anyones opinion or perception or list of so called facts, THE TRUTH cannot be changed by mens formation of any one of 300 religions.

    THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH and dwells in a secret place far above our tiny minded concepts of "my truth" or "your truth" that make us feel comfortable and fat and satisfied.

    Our perception, we think, is our reality. NO, reality is alone REALITY and your perception is limited and often a pure illusion. The difference between an illusion, a perception and TOTAL REALITY is often hard to see.

    But make no mistake, TOTAL REALITY AND THE PURE TRUTH are not subject to our limited understanding. THEY ARE FAR ABOVE US ALL.

    THE TRUTH can find an error in any of us.

    So, does anyone want to know THE TRUTH? Or are we afraid to know?

  9. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    The use of CAPS means I am speaking up, if I was yelling, I would write "I AM NOW YELLING!!!"...one can speak up, one can whisper, one can talk in bold or italics, no big deal.

    Even if one shouts, not big deal, not to me it is not.

    Letters are a limitation, so I use them to the uttermost they allow.

    Shalom

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That is not "the truth" when it comes to webcom.  Overuse of caps is extremely rude.

  10. Eaglekiwi profile image80
    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

    I remember reading some verses from the bible when I was feeling really disappointed with life , I wasnt exactly depressed ,but I guess I was looking to make sense of why people are they way they are etc etc ...soul searching I think its called anyway...Gods words that day just made sense , the only sense I had heard all day....so I wanted to read more
    and more.........then I wanted to know the author....and finally one day I introduced myself...smile and we been friends ever since.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I have found comforting passages in the bible under similar circumstances.  Much of what is written, especially from the sermon on the mount is sound psychological advice regardless of your religious beliefs.  Other books, such as Leviticus and Deuteronomy sound like the rantings of a sociopath and do not represent the expression of any god I would want to know.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
        Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        lol yes they do ,I totally agree. For me what I get though is God showing mankind, that he knows and loves everyone ,even the shall we say more challenged in society ,the whiners, the drama queens ,they are all in there huh. And they all , me included challenge Gods wisdom...
        I certainly dont read it ,like some suggest and naively accept 'every' word, but it makes me think. I like that.

      2. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You can found soothing words in the Q'uran, or the I Ching as well for that matters... even in new age's books...if you look thorughly!

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
          Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I dont doubt those books comfort and help many. On the contrary Jesus when challenged by his disciples to rebuke a group of 'other' beleivers said this to them
          "No, if they are not against me, they are for me"...so that tells me even though they clearly did not worship or behave the same way , that was an example of how to treat other religions.
          "whoever is not for me ,is against me"    the words were not
          "if you go to the same church as me" or as RooBee pointed out
          even if you go to church

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Interesting slip of the tongue there kiwi. wink Sad, but true - this is what most people believe. "whoever is not for me ,is against me"

            Sad............

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
              Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Why sad?
              Facts are this is what scripture states
              If someone is against you , they dont beleive what you believe?
              'against'

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                So, you do not see any difference between:

                "No, if they are not against me, they are for me"

                and

                "whoever is not for me ,is against me"

                lol

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
                  Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yea thats what I wanted to do when you put up pictures of monkeys ,but I had some manners.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    What? Who mentioned monkeys?

                    LOL

                    That is the entertaining thing about speaking to you guys. You do not know what you are saying. Merely repeating things and getting it wrong.

                    "No, if they are not against me, they are for me" - loving expression meaning leave them to believe what they want.

                    "whoever is not for me ,is against me" - declaration of war.

                    Oh dear..........

        2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Soothing words are nice, but we are in need of salvation from our sin and words do not offer this, The Messiah is THE SAVIOR and perfect offering to free you and me from sin. Books do not save you.

          1. mohitmisra profile image61
            mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            This planet has seen prophets and not just one prophet- your prophet.Jesus will not save fanatics as they have yet to learn the meaning of his message.

      3. quietnessandtrust profile image60
        quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        HIS logic, reasoning, understanding, wisdom, knowledge, judgments and TRUTH...all of them are beyond our grasp and HE does not answer to men, nor does HE need to explain HIMSELF to us or why HE does what HE does.

        That's why HE is GOD and we are NOT.

        1. Colebabie profile image60
          Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          So you just live life without question?

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          And yet you claim to grasp them.........

    2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      AMEN and well said...glad to hear it sister!!!

      PRESS ON!!!

      Shalom

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        More important than the formatting of your posts is the ability to offer thoughts that are relevant and add to the discussion rather than attack and trying to convert those with different views.

        Do you not see the huge difference between Ek's post and yours?

  11. RooBee profile image90
    RooBeeposted 11 years ago

    Hey Ron, great thread you started here. I was hoping there would be cupcakes, though!
    For me, I suppose agnostic would work if I must label myself.
    I've studied much and attended various events and services given by different Christian groups throughout my life. For the most part, religious groups contain some great folks who have some fabulous guidelines by which to live.
    That said, there is always a point at which my admiration for said group comes to a screeching halt and I quietly tiptoe for the nearest exit. There's always a catch, a kicker, a twist. Always something that positively smacks of man trying to instill guilt & shame as a means of control over the masses.
    I will never, ever believe that one particular religion has the monopoly on truth or communication with Creator. I will never buy in to the idea that I have to go through a priest/bishop/rabbi/pastor to sup w/ my maker. That is pure hogwash. We are not born as sinners, and we are not meant to walk this earth in shame of what we are.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      http://bloghungry.typepad.com/blog/images/06cupcake_1.jpg

      From a kindred spirit.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
        Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        oh that was mean , so close and yet so far ...sigh

    2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No one religion has the monopoly on the truth. Religion is not GOD. THE TRUTH is GOD and HE has all TRUTH and HE alone is The Truth, The Way and The Life. This One came and offered Himself up for your sins and short comings. Confess that HE is The Savior and you shall be saved. That is the simple and powerful TRUTH. Religion is not a Savior.

      1. earnestshub profile image85
        earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        As I said before, so with an ego the size of a small country you believe that out of the thousands of religions and beliefs in the world, your belief alone is the only right one.
        A bit like buying a ticket in a lotto then claiming that because you have one ticket you are the winner!

        1. aka-dj profile image75
          aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Not quite. Bit like having a ticket to a show, with seat numbers. You are guaranteed a spot.
          Or better yet, an invitation to a wedding, to which you have RSVP'd. You will be welcome, not like a party crasher who forces their way in. big_smile

  12. RooBee profile image90
    RooBeeposted 11 years ago

    big_smile big_smile big_smile

  13. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 11 years ago

    Are those divine cupcakes?

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      They are if you believe they are.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Ah, I have "faith" that they are the divine cupcakes!


        Maybe I should burn "incense" before I eat one.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          No, that would block the essence of divinity currently emanating from them!!

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            lol  How about I "sacrifice" my dogs before I eat them?

          2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Mockery...you will reap what you sow.

            1. earnestshub profile image85
              earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Well lets hope not, for your sake!

            2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I'm counting on just that.

  14. megs78 profile image60
    megs78posted 11 years ago

    I was raised in  a Baptist home.  Strict rules, no leeway for bad behaviour and almost impossible to live by expectations.  For me, it turned me into an extreme rebel.  I was not baptized and plan to stay unbaptized, but as I matured from rebel into adult and mother, I started to see God in a whole new light. I always believed in God, I didn't need any proof from anyone for some reason, I feel Him.  But I just couldn't get back into religion because of the pain I endured as a child in a Baptist church.  But I believe that you dont have to be religious to have a close relationship with God.  And regarding the question of how I can be so convinced of my faith and of my God, you need only to look around you to believe.  I just cant accept that we, humans, animals, and nature were all one big accident.  We are too amazing, our bodies, the environment, how everything works is a miracle.  A coincidence? I don't think so.  Humans are too analytical.  It is such a relief to let go of the doubt and the worry and the analysing.  I guess what I want to say in response to the original forum thread is that being sure of God and of your faith is something you can feel.  Some people dont feel it, and i truly believe its because we are always questioning, questioning.  Let go of doubt and critical thinking for awhile and just feel and see what happens. Hope this isnt too corny, its just how I am from time to time when something really moves me.
    Megs

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
      Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Good for you smile, ya gotta be true to yaself welcome to hubpages Megs  an thanks for sharing.
      Im off to make a boring tuna sandwich ,since Rons cupcakes makin my tummy rumble...

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I do believe there is a creator/creators. When you say "God", this brings peoples minds to the bible and religion. I don't think our creator/creators are known. I think the bible and religion are horrible assumptions meant for control.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
        Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Perfect Love (God) casts out fear marine...(dont be afraid) smile

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          A person that finds individualism is far from afraid.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
            Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You said religion are horrible assumptions meant for control ,I mistook that for fear , my opologies.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              No appology needed anywhere. I believe more fear is involved when someone individualizes than when someone turns religious, especially when we are breeded to be followers. Once individualizing, there is no more fear, only questions.

    3. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for posting Megs.  Your words aren't corny at all; I think we all have feelings and experiences that can't be rationally explained. I also "feel" and can't prove that we are not at the top of the spiritual chain.  I accept "it" without knowing precisely what "it" is.

  15. Eaglekiwi profile image80
    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

    If religious differences weren't an issue, would it be religion?


    Doesnt make sense Earnest?

  16. Eaglekiwi profile image80
    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

    No it was not a slip of the tounge Mark.( words in brackets are mine)

    Mark 9:38-41

    'Teacher said John We saw a man driving out demons in your name,(different church practices) we told him to stop ,because he was not one of us ( different religions)

    "Do not stop him" Jesus said No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me For whoever is not against us if for us

  17. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years ago

    http://broadsides.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/farside-dumb-bunny.gif

  18. earnestshub profile image85
    earnestshubposted 11 years ago

    I'm gob smacked that you cannot find a reference to god demanding worship and obedience. The constant threats supposedly made by your god in "the good book" are there to see. As a once born again Christian (no longer, and don't give me the John quote about how I will always remain one) who has not only read the bible and quoran and studied both I'm not playing the "lets swap meanings" game that all the religious tomes set up. The bible, like the quoran are dutifully unreadable apparently. You religionists can come up a bible quote to support anything you believe. The bible is quoted by 300 or so religions from the one book! Hows your math?
    It is just silly to deny the biblical statements of god's bi polar and psychotic threats. They prove beyond doubt that the bible was written in a time when you could threaten to get obedience. These days we know a lot more about psychology.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
      Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And you atheists should be less concerned with what Christians are doing and more concerned with your own

      destiny.

      You dont believe in the Bible and it sounds like you dont want anyone else do either .
      Rather controlling that.

      1. earnestshub profile image85
        earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You as usual do not address the issue I raised. I do not care what you believe, but ram it down my neck as truth? then you have a response.

        1. aka-dj profile image75
          aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          It continues to baffle me what "gluttons for punishment" you all are!!!
          You come to the Religion forum, and read the threads(all freely, no one compels you to) and then carry on like some little children.
          "mummy, they are shoving their religion down my throat!" "Woe is me,oh, what am I going to do? It's SO OFFENSIVE!" I say pitiful!
          Grow up will (all) of you. (I say that collectively, because you, earnesthub, only because you happened to voice it here, yet again. sad

          1. Bibowen profile image93
            Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well, dj, What have you learned? For people that hate religion, they love to hang around it. Have you noticed who keeps showing up on the religion posts? The usual suspects. Even when they are discussing "science" in the science section, they can't stay on topic. They start out talking about science and end up talking about philosophy or religion! For people that think that religion is for the mental lowlifes, they spend a lot of time talking about it.

            No one's trying to "ram something down their throat" or "force them to believe"...it isn't happening. They feel that way because, apparently, they are dealing with other issues.

            People that define themselves by something that doesn't exist are irrational. On this approach, the desk I'm sitting at and our house cat are also atheists because they also lack a belief in God.

            The historian Paul Johnson called John Quincy Adams a "great hater." Love is gone, except the love to hate things; what can I say?  They are exactly as the Bible describes them.

            1. earnestshub profile image85
              earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              No it is a lot simpler than that. Religionists make assumptive statements that are inclusive, and as far as I see, that is why the responses from so many of us, who do not consider ourselves in the way your statements try to enforce.
              Because this is a religious forum and not your specific religion's property, you will get comments from those who disagree with your beliefs..

              1. aka-dj profile image75
                aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I say it again, in case you missed it.
                It continues to baffle me what "gluttons for punishment" you all are!!!
                You come to the Religion forum, and read the threads(all freely, no one compels you to) and then carry on like some little children.
                "mummy, they are shoving their religion down my throat!" "Woe is me,oh, what am I going to do? It's SO OFFENSIVE!" I say pitiful!
                Grow up will (all) of you. (I say that collectively, because many have voiced the same thing.)
                Jesus was the One Who said that He was the ONLY way, (to God the Father), not me or any other (religionist, a word that doesn't even exist) person posting here. But I see your point. You can't lash out at Him, so we are the next in the firing line.
                Not only pathetic, but infantile too! cool

                1. earnestshub profile image85
                  earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus was the One Who said that He was the ONLY way, (to God the Father), not me or any other. This is the sort of presumptive crud you come up with and then say you are not stuffing everyone else with?
                  Insulting and stupid childish remarks are all you have? Jesus said nothing. His story is a lot older than he is, but you would not like to know, so you don't ...convenient.

    2. Bibowen profile image93
      Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I guess this is meant for me......

      You have proved something "beyond doubt" by writing the above, but it's not what you think it is....

      How is it that you could have been a born-again Christian if there was no God. That makes about as much sense as "dutifully unreadable."

      300 or so religions quoting the Bible....OK....what do you think this proves?

      I do deny that there is anything in the Bible that resembles your characterization of God. Bipolar? Psychotic? Psychobabble.

      Besides, the God of the Bible could be all those things that you said--a real raving lunatic--and it has nothing to do with my original statement (if you'll recall) that as a self-sufficient being, God has need of nothing. Can't you stay on topic?

      My math is fine; how is your capacity to focus?

      1. earnestshub profile image85
        earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Excellent thanks for asking. What a lot of rot.I pointed out that I had believed in the past, why do you have trouble with that? The point I make is that everyone gets a different read, and understands it 300 different ways.
        If I read a manual that tells me to how to do something, it usually does not have 300 or so different meanings depending on who read it! So to your original point, I agree completely. No omnipotent being would require help from we mere mortals nor require being worshiped.

  19. profile image0
    Ghost32posted 11 years ago

    I've been a member of a non-Christian faith since 1974.  Steps to get there included:

    1.  No church till  3rd grade.

    2.  I asked to go to Methodist Sunday school, wanted to quit a month later, was told tough cookies, and was "force-trucked" to Sunday school until graduating 8th grade.

    3.  Atheist through  high school.

    4.  Post high school, agnostic till about age 29.

    5.  Around that time (age 28-29), read 2 books on The Way of the Sufi  that helped me start thinking outside the Christian box and outside the "agnostic box" as well.

    6.  1973, went through a lot of different studies including astrology and some of the psychic stuff (not Wicca or anything, just learning this and that).

    7.  1974, was loaned a book on Eckankar by Paul Twitchell and haven't looked back since.

    The reason I've stuck with the same path since then (1974) is simple:  The teachings make sense to me, and I continue to better understand my life, why I where I'm at and doing what I'm doing at any given moment, better and better as time goes on. 

    Of course, every spiritual path (Christianity, Islam, Eckankar, whatever), has plenty of detractors--and why not?  We're not clones--not yet, anyway.  Each of us holds a particular state of consciousness at any given moment and may relate to "Religion X" but not to "Religion Y" or "Nonreligion Z".  We're all where we need to be, whether that "place" be in Fundamentalist Christianity or in atheism.

  20. Ron Mariano profile image58
    Ron Marianoposted 11 years ago

    I'm a Deist. I believe in a supreme being who created this amazing universe that we enjoy. That's about it. I go with reason and not religion. I don't believe in any religions however, I respect them. I respect other people's beliefs.

    Religions are just clubs with ideas may it be good or bad. Some claim that all they preach is good, but there's bad in every good. I'm sure you agree. But, I respect those claims.

    Some believe that there is no God and that's fine. I believe that there is a God but he just doesn't care about us. He gave us reason and free will and what we get out of what we do is karma. That's it. He doesn't control everything. But that's just me. Don't judge me for that.

    To believe in Jesus and Jesus only is okay. There are so many other prophets and religious figures but we can't say that those prophets/religious figures are wrong, never existed or not acceptable. I respect Christians, Muslims, and Jews. I respect them all for what they believe in for there is nothing wrong with that.

  21. upal19 profile image60
    upal19posted 11 years ago

    Well, this is a question that is there any god? One thing we must admit that everything we see or not see is created by someone mightiest, wisest, a nicest planner. the nature is not created by itself automatically because without any plan the nature can't be created. Behind the plan we must agree with this that there is planner who first planned for everything. So, we must say there is god. God should not be a worldly person. So he doesn't need a child because he doesn't need any wife. if he has no wife why he calls a man his child? If he has a boy child where is his daughter? if he has a one child where are his other children? So, Jesus can not be the god's child at all.

    If we find reason behind a reason and go past we must stop at one point and that point is the god. Moses said that there would come a messenger like me who would tell everything. in Bible Jesus said who is coming next I’m not eligible to untie his shoe’s lace. So, I’m not telling you all, he will do this. You should wait for him. People waited for him and found him. The man is Mohammad. muslims follow him.

    If you have any question please ask me. I can answer every question.

    1. earnestshub profile image85
      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      How very clever of you to be able to answer all questions.Can you tell me why you are right and the rest of belief systems wrong? Or how out of all the beliefs in the world you can provide satisfactory answers? Good luck, the odds of that being true are enormously stacked against you!

      1. upal19 profile image60
        upal19posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Actually belief systems are wrong or right that is not question,almost all belief systems go to one thing that is there is a god. so people are believer. but one believer should have his belief clear and free from superstitions.

    2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You do not know the scripture you mentioned. It was John The Baptist who "said the one who comes after me, I am not worthy to untie His shoes."
      He was walking about THE MESSIAH...Jesus never made the statement you claim...find it and quote it chapter and verse.

      Jesus did not point to another man as coming after HIM.

      Mohammad is a false prophet and you are not GOD so you do not have every answer to every question.

      You prove it by misquotes just for starters.

      1. mohitmisra profile image61
        mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Muhammad is a false prophet?
        "Why have you forsaken me?" Jesus
        He didn't know whats going to happen to his life forget predicting about a future prophet.
        Your statement about Muhammad is seriously sad.
        "Do unto others as you would have other do unto you ." Jesus
        Would you like it if a Muslims says Jesus was a false prophet and Muhammad is the greatest and all should follow only Muhammad?
        I am the Light, I am god.

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Muslims can say whatever they wish, they cannot change THE TRUTH...it does not bother me a bit, THE TRUTH stands alone, far above a Muslim or a Muhammad

          1. mohitmisra profile image61
            mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            This is fanaticism and nothing else.
            The truth is Jesus and Muhammad and not you.You have no idea what god or truth is.

            1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
              quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              JESUS IS THE TRUTH...and HE IS GOD...muhammad is a dead man and a thief and a liar period.

              1. mohitmisra profile image61
                mohitmisraposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                You are a thief and a liar, ridiculous behavior.

                1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                  quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  DO you need a diaper change and a fresh bottle now? How about a Kleenex.

                2. JonTutor profile image61
                  JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Another religious war of words.... why folks who read about love/peace/tolerance in holy books don't practice it?.... and this was supposed to be a "polite" discussion topic.... lol

                  1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Sorry if you take offense....I do not take mockers lightly friend.
                    No place is it written that one tolerates a liar, or makes peace with them.

                  2. Bibowen profile image93
                    Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Jon T is right. I don't think the discussion has to always be peaceful....there's something in the Bible about a "time for war and a time for peace." But we can always be civil. Less name calling, bold print, smiley faces (I think my jr. high daughter use to do that with her e-mails--what kind of message are you giving people when your emotions remind us of the mark down stickers at Walmart?), and wearing your feelings on your sleeves.

                    Indianapolis Ron, where are you? This was your idea. You were suppose to keep the discussion on the up and up....

              2. earnestshub profile image85
                earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Now you are displaying that you are a zealot. I wish I was surprised. You know quietnessandtrust, you are noisy and untrustworthy, is your name some sort of joke on yourself?
                Jesus is not dead, he was never alive, just another religious recycle of the same old story going back to the times of Osiris when man was even more ignorant than you are now.

                1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                  quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Your current lie out does the previous ones.
                  Fools, liars and mockers all sleep in the same bed, like sisters.

                2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                  quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yet another foolish statement of a lie "Jesus is not dead, he was never alive"...Historians have proven HE lived, even those historians who do not believe in him have shown it to be true, but of course they are not fools who say HE did not exist.

                  Ignorant means to be without the knowledge of GOD, I am disqualified thus. You are highly qualified in this area.

                  And again, GOD does not answer to mocking foolish idiots, never has, HE is needless in this regard and all others smile

  22. Moonchild60 profile image75
    Moonchild60posted 11 years ago

    A polite conversation on religious beliefs ha? Guess not. I believe in God.  Religion is man made.  I seriously doubt God said "God forth and create religion so there shall be man against man fighting for who's group is the one true way"...yeah, don't think so. 
    I believe that we are here to love and give and care for each other. To be the best individual human beings we can be.  To learn and grow as divine spirits.  Period.  No one can "cram" anything down anyones throat.  You believe what you want.  Why does everyone get emotionally involved?  You are not here to convert anyone and shouldn't try.  Worry about your own soul and let them worry about their's. 
    People really do spend too much time getting up in everyone else's business...

  23. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Well that sounds fun and all. But I think I'll step aside. Carry on sir, carry on.

  24. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Lots of bold up in here.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He has a new toy.

  25. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Sooo much bold...

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Bold font. Weak thoughts.

  26. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    No bold! No bold! Yes!

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Damn!! we were hoping he would forget.  Thanks a lot.

      1. Colebabie profile image60
        Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Oh. I thought maybe he was learning that the bold didn't help his argument. I hope for too much. I know, what can I say? I'm an optimist.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Don't sow that optimism, you might reap the rewards........Wait, that would be a good thing.

          Never mind

  27. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Back to bold? Seriously?

  28. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    Yes I talk in bold sometimes, sometimes CAPS, and???

  29. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Didn't Jesus wear sandals?

    1. Moonchild60 profile image75
      Moonchild60posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Being logical one would assume Jesus wore sandals as that was what was worn in "his time".  Unless of course he didn't like sandals and went around bare foot...we can't really know for certain can we, as none of us were there.  Unless one of his prophets mentioned his attire, and then we would have to believe that they really said that and not that one of the many authors of the bible made it up, or that they themselves were being honest.  Alot of assuming has to be done for such a simple question doesn't it?  So it makes me wonder, what makes people so certain of their beliefs when they are all based on assumption?

  30. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years ago

    http://iansbrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/atheism_good_enough_for_these_idiots.jpg

    FOOLS

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Many well educated men out there who are fools.

      It's not my quote either.

      The qualification for being a FOOL is to say there is NO GOD.

      Pretty simple.

    2. Bibowen profile image93
      Bibowenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I love this poster! This is gotta be the best propaganda piece since the one where the atheist is eating his baby son. I think the truthfulness of this poster is contained in Ian's brain somewhere.

      I don't think half of those guys were even atheist. Lincoln (center-top)? Franklin (bottom-right)? Besides, where are the women, like Madalyn Murray O'Hare? Not very inclusive.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I'm actually not a big fan of it either. I've studied Franklin's life a bit and he was certainly no atheist.  I pulled it up in response to someone's ridiculous statement that all atheists are fools.

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          "THE FOOL has said in his heart that there is no GOD"
          Therefore "GOD does is not real" = FOOL. Simple.

          The beginning of wisdom is the fear of The Lord.

          1. Moonchild60 profile image75
            Moonchild60posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Fear the Lord???  What a bunch of ignorant crap that is and believe me, I am being incredibly polite.

            1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
              quietnessandtrustposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  tantrum
                  429 posts
                  Joined: 6 weeks ago
                  Hubs: 8
                  Fans: 32

              If the beginning of wisdom is to fear a lord, that's superlative ignorance !

              ONLY THE FOOL does not fear GOD

  31. earnestshub profile image85
    earnestshubposted 11 years ago

    A little bit about worship to make a point.

    "I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers.  Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin.  There are no survivors to even tell what happened.  I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now!  Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.'  But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn."  So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations.  For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them.  All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy.  "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together.  My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings.   (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT) You worship this god right? Even as a human he would be a complete failure!

    1. aka-dj profile image75
      aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So,if one of these nations practiced human sacrifice (esp. children) to their "god's", you would tolerate that?  If you know your Bible so well, I am sure you read that this WAS a common practice among many nations in the region about which you posted.
      But then I have my answer from your own lips (writings), that you would, and indeed do. Abortion. sad sad sad sad

      1. JonTutor profile image61
        JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You know something... My eldest cousin in Idaho ran off with a guy.... she came back after a week....  but got pregnant...  to cut the story short... her father was staunch pro lifer ... but made an exception when my cousin was concerned..... abortion done.... I never believed another word from him... he gotta preach but not practice.... lol

        1. JonTutor profile image61
          JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          @Aka-dj What do you think of my uncle.... and his anti abortion stand now?

          1. aka-dj profile image75
            aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I don't have an opinion. I have been in a similar position, (though not identical).Each man carries his own burdens. Irrespective of what he did, or what I think, it's still wrong because it's wrong.
            I hear all the BS about rape and all that, but the truth is that 90-95% is all for "convenience"!

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, abortions are very convenient.  How many have you had?

            2. JonTutor profile image61
              JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              You know what.... He thought as a dad... but his position as a Catholic.... not very cool.... when he preaches pro life all the time. smile

              1. aka-dj profile image75
                aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Just pray (if you pray) that you never face hard decisions like that. cool

                1. JonTutor profile image61
                  JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm gonna be 21 this Nov.. no teenage daughter anytime soon smile ...  just gotta be careful with my GF  wink

      2. earnestshub profile image85
        earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        As an omnipotent entity I can tell you what I would not do. I would not wipe out a people because of faults in them that I had created!
        As it happens I do know the bible. Studied it in Hebrew and Greek as well as English for your edification.

        1. aka-dj profile image75
          aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Child sacrifice is "just a fault". N I C E !

          1. earnestshub profile image85
            earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You do not have any answers from my lips because you put up a straw man and then knock it down. With your beliefs, not mine. According to you God made man, man no good god no good.

            1. aka-dj profile image75
              aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              So, what is your answer? Do you approve of abortion, yes, or no?

        2. aka-dj profile image75
          aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Sounds like you would qualify as a Pharisee. They knew their Torah backwards, but still managed to miss the coming of the(ir)Messiah. sad
          Only I will give you this much credit, they were responsible for Jesus' crucifiction, whilst your only guilt of blasphemy and persecuting believers. It must be a lesser charge. hmm

          1. earnestshub profile image85
            earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Blasphemy is in the eye of the beholder, it is you who believes this tripe, not me. I agree a knowledge of the bible is no indication of intelligence evidently, as none of you can agree on it. 300 od interpretations from one book and you are the only one who is right about the meaning. Why am I not surprised. What a sad little mind. smile

            1. aka-dj profile image75
              aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Did I question your intelligence? I can't see that anywhere? So why accuse me of a "sad little mind"? Actually, I believe that the Pharisees were among the most intelligent of their generation. They were the elite, respected leaders in their community.
              I now question your knowledge of the Bible, because at least this point would have been obvious to you.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
                Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Well said DJ!

                1. earnestshub profile image85
                  earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Dj I apologize. You are right, you did not deserve the personal attack.
                  I did not miss the reference to the Pharisees, I responded emotionally for which I am sorry. I did not appreciate being told that I persecute believers, I find it the other way around, with flat statements of belief as fact, there is no room to be polite in response to much of the "are you still beating your wife" types of questions, which I do note, you are not an instigator.

                  1. aka-dj profile image75
                    aka-djposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you. Apology accepted.
                    I try really hard to leave emotion and accusations out of the posts. Like you, I see them as counterproductive. I feel I would be "getting in the gutter" if I did so.
                    It seems to me that WHAT one believes is more important than WHY that one believes, rather than the other way round, but it never gets to that point in the discussions.
                    I know WHAT I believe and, more importantly, WHY I believe it.
                    Anyway, I will stop rambling, it's late. smile

            2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
              quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Blasphemers are FOOLS, ignorant, arrogant and mock GOD, or at least they try to, for GOD is not mocked and you will reap as you have sown, just like a fool who says that GOD is not real.

              I am not moved by FOOLS. They cannot change THE TRUTH. Period!!! 

              I do not care if you have studied the Bible in 3 languages or 33 of them, you are a mocker, a scoffer and a fool. education is not wisdom. THE FEAR OF GOD is the beginning of wisdom, you have not even begun.

  32. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years ago

    Nonsense in bold font is qualification for what?

  33. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Sir, you have never lied? You have always told the truth?

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      All humans have told lies. I use to lie when I was ignorant of THE TRUTH...telling a lie comes out of fear, no more fear no more lie.

      THE TRUTH sets one free from ALL fear.

      To be transparent is to have no fear and to tell no lie.

      Tell the truth and you have nothing to keep track of.

      1. Colebabie profile image60
        Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        So after you knew the TRUTH (aka accepting Christ) you haven't lied?

  34. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    By the way...does it look like I left Mark?

  35. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Sir why are you so mean and angry?

    1. JonTutor profile image61
      JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He thinks "BOLD" means courageous... not BOLD as in Upper case/darker black font....lol

      1. Colebabie profile image60
        Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        smile it isn't just his font, but his words. so angry.

        1. JonTutor profile image61
          JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe frustration... when others gonna believe my  version of "truth".... Where is Usmanali?.... I'm missing his Anti America rants.... he is more entertaining.... lol

          1. Colebabie profile image60
            Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Oh I don't miss him. He didn't say very nice things to me. hmm

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              The freemasons are breathing easier since his departure.

              1. JonTutor profile image61
                JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                @Colebabie Sorry to hear that... don't take a nut case seriously.
                @Ron Not yet.... Make Money still gonna track those freemasons.... lol

                1. Colebabie profile image60
                  Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh I don't. His comments were ridiculous.

                2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't notice that MM had a problem with freemasons.

                  1. JonTutor profile image61
                    JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    He believes freemasons spreading "new age" thingy... attacking Christianity... what bull... lol

    2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Mean??? Angry???....neither

      Bold yes...unbelievers bring they're mockery of GOD and I stand up to them and do not back down. They can say what they will.

      Messiah did not run from mockers and GOD laughs at them that mock HIM.

      If they had honest and sincere questions instead of mocking, I would speak to that.

      A soldier does not cut and run.

      Shalom

      1. JonTutor profile image61
        JonTutorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        @Colebabie See I told ya... lol

      2. Colebabie profile image60
        Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        No sir, your words are mean and angry. "I've got soul but I'm not a soldier" Why not speak politely anyway? If they are "mocking" and you are responding with angry and mean words, then you aren't getting anywhere are you?

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          My words meet head on the mockery and insults hurled at the GOD that I worship and adore. If you had a husband that heard a bunch of men mocking you and insulting you and he just stood there acting "polite and nice"...WHILE they would not shut up????

          Would you say to your husband "good job honey"

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That would be the Christian thing to do.

          2. Colebabie profile image60
            Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            If his motto in life was quietness and trust then yes. Otherwise he would be a hypocrite.  I would expect him to stay quiet and trust that his words will do no good in changing the way the men are.

            1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
              quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Your missing the point, Ok so what if the mockers started to beat you too, then what?

              My user name comes from learning to be quiet and trust while learning from GOD....and HE teaches me to speak up when needed.

  36. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    GOD is not mocked, you reap what you sow.

    If you are going to mock HIM, do not expect his children to just go crawl into a corner and let you continue like a mindless idiot!!

    What??? Do you think because I am a believer that I am going to run from YOU???

    I do not "need" anything from you and I will certainly not run away from your foolish mockery.

    1. Colebabie profile image60
      Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      What "mockery" sir? Calling me a "mindless idiot" isn't very kind of you.

      1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
        quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I was not calling you that...you are not mocking right?...right.

        When I said "if you" I was referring to the ones who were.

        1. Colebabie profile image60
          Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Well calling anyone a mindless idiot still is not kind.

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's NOT me...a mocker by definition is a fool and an idiot...it's just what the word means by default.

            1. Colebabie profile image60
              Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I thought a "mocker" was just someone who mocks. Someone who ridicules or mimics something. Can't find "fool" or "idiot" anywhere.

              1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                fools, mockers, idiots....all the same in the scripture.

                Mockers of GOD are fools and idiots, no other word to be polite about it.

                1. Colebabie profile image60
                  Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Is "idiot" a word from the scripture?

                  1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    a foolish or stupid person

                    — idiot adjective

                    Same word as "fool"...yes it is in the scripture a massive amount of times.

                    Mock : to treat with contempt or ridicule

            2. earnestshub profile image85
              earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It's not you? Your word and your definition of it. Means nothing. Just shows you can't take the heat or reply to any criticism.

              1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                If I use a word to describe a persons behavior...am I THAT WORD now?

                That is what I mean.

                I do not sweat anyone esp a mocking fool who is arrogant and ignorant on top of his education.

                U.S. Navy Seal fears no man.

    2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You seem to confuse yourself with God.  Are you feeling mocked?  There are meds to help with that.

  37. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    time to go to work.

    1. earnestshub profile image85
      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Someone emplys a zealot like you? Where do you work, in the church?

  38. earnestshub profile image85
    earnestshubposted 11 years ago

    I enjoyed it to. I think a bit of humor is called for in this forum.

  39. arthriticknee profile image68
    arthritickneeposted 11 years ago

    As the son of two science teachers i guess my religious leanings were foretold.
    Interestingly, my parents are the minority with 100% of their close personal friends being deeply religious. My father's best friend in the 80's was the local Reverend, they spent many a night arguing over the odd drink, my old man's theory being that if the church would just say that God created evolution everyone would be happy.

    I personally feel that religions origins are based around man's desperate need to find meaning in the unexplained. I know it is controversial but I think that organized religion is merely a stage of evolution and is becoming increasingly irrelevant. My hub:
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Death-of-Religi … out-of-God   puts forward my opinions but I respect the beliefs of others.
    I have always said that I don't believe in God but I do believe in faith. Faith has the power to do amazing good regardless of the existence of god.
    Reasonable debate is often sabotaged in topics such as religion by the inability of many to see the other side. I am not about to convert, but many of my friends are religions and it works for them. They lead happy lives, and so do I.

    Unfortunately, the passion that stirs in us when religion is on the table often leads to arguements, terrorism and war.

    I hope we get over it soon.

    1. earnestshub profile image85
      earnestshubposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hope we can get past religion completely. I have many  friends and family who are religious, but unlike many on the religious forum, they leave room for other beliefs.
      I have discussions with my friends about religion and they are just that. Discussions. No one gets angry or upset.
      The problem with the forums is that they are loaded.
      Titles that leave no room for discussion, statements that imply or state that whoever disagrees is a liar or worse, and threats from religionists gods of death and purgatory do not help a debate.

  40. arthriticknee profile image68
    arthritickneeposted 11 years ago

    I think we are very much on the same page Ernest.
    Live and let live.

    I agree there is something about religion that turns normal people into raving maniacs - and that counts equally for believers and non-believers.

    Let's all chill people

  41. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    How was work?

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Work is great thank you.

      How are you today?

      Just to say again, I did not call you a mocker, I was referring to the other men.

      You seem to be sincere. smile

      Shalom

      1. Colebabie profile image60
        Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I'm doing well. I have work in a couple hours. I understand that you didn't call me a "mocker". I just don't understand why name-calling is necessary. Or why if someone doesn't believe as you do you must put them down, be rude, and push your ideas.

        1. Misha profile image66
          Mishaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Cause he's a Christian Cole. That's how Christians do. smile

          1. Colebabie profile image60
            Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Not all. I have plenty of friends who are Christians. Some of my family is Jewish. They do not push their ideas on me. I am invited to go to church/temple with them or ask questions. But they have never, ever, told me what to believe.

            1. Misha profile image66
              Mishaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              LOL Then we have a hubpages variety smile

              1. Colebabie profile image60
                Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I guess so. It just confuses me. Because they really don't get anywhere. Inviting one to ask questions is awesome, I think it shows acceptance, and the willingness to teach. But condemning all that do not believe the same as you, and preaching your beliefs over and over again, totally defeats what you're trying to accomplish. I'm confused hmm

              2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, this particularly virulent strain is not representative of the species in general. Many are kind, thoughtful and can understand the nuances of formatting text for effect.

          2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ummmm...let's not call me a Christian or assume that I am one OK?

            Never said I was one. Look at the postings, you will not find it.

            I take no stamp or label on my head.

            Nor do I "approve" a "religion"...I approve of THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH is a person.

            1. RooBee profile image90
              RooBeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Nobody is going to take kindly someone's perceived "truth" being shouted loudly, rudely, and condescendingly at them.

              1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                THE TRUTH is in CAPS because HE is a person. I am not talking about a "perception"...I am talking about REALITY.

                GOD is the ultimate reality and has no lie in HIM.

                I get bold when it is called for, no shame in it.

        2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Mocker, scoffer, fool, idiot, rebel, atheist, murderer, thief, liar.

          All are just to describe the behavior of people. Call it what it is.
          And do not hold back. smile

          1. Colebabie profile image60
            Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So if one does not believe in what you do, then they are all of these things?

            1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
              quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              If someone does not believe in THE TRUTH, then they believe a lie.
              If someone has questions about THE TRUTH and has no fear about getting to THE TRUTH in a matter, that is fine and good. I love THE TRUTH and anything that stands against it is a lie.

              If people are a mocker, scoffer, fool, idiot, rebel, atheist, murderer, thief, liar. Then that is what they are, they make that choice. If they want to know THE TRUTH and stop doing those things, great.

              I am not THE TRUTH...Messiah is and anything short of that is a lie.

  42. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Do you understand why I'm confused hmm?

    1. Misha profile image66
      Mishaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Not really. In my experience, it is habitual to most people to behave in a way that guarantees results that are opposite to stated goals. smile

      1. Colebabie profile image60
        Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Really? I suppose I can see that happening in a lot of cases, I don't know about most.  I was looking for Q&T's opinion as well. But not sure if he'll give it, since it doesn't require bolded text and harsh words. Anyways, have a great day Misha. I have to get ready for work. smile

        1. Misha profile image66
          Mishaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I am off to sleep, it's almost midnight where I am now. Good day to you. smile

          1. Colebabie profile image60
            Colebabieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sweet dreams then. smile

  43. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 11 years ago

    Well good luck sir. You keep having to rationalize your actions, so you're taking away from your "message" or HIS "message", whatever. You may want to rethink your strategy.

  44. quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years ago

    "My truth" and / or "Your truth" can be tainted with a lie, even the most microscopic of lies.

    How many times have we "thought we knew something" only to find out we were in error? So all the while we spread "our little truth" which contained errors. Then we learned better and changed our mind.

    THE TRUTH however, never changes, it remains constant and unmovable and contains no lies and anything outside of THE TRUTH is a lie without exception. This is not debatable at all.

    So what I am saying is that no man has the whole truth, THE TRUTH only does.

    This is a universe of difference.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I really wish you could see yourself in 3rd person.

    2. Haunty profile image84
      Hauntyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      this doesn't seem like quietness to me, quietnessandtruth

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        This is a universe of difference and you're right in that one. But this in not the manner to show the Truth

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I think this is because he or no one else knows "The Truth", only "their truth".

      2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
        quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I find quietness and trust being in HIS PRESENCE...then HE gives me words to speak and so I do...I speak.

        I can speak in any manner required by the situation at hand.

        I have quietness and trust in HIM and HIM alone. When HE tells me to be bold, I am, I cast out all fears.

        Boldness is needed. I speak like I believe it.

        Shalom

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Do you think "he" favors you over everyone else that doesn't share your truth?

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Again, it is NOT "my truth" and you keep saying that like I am going to fall for it.

            When I say THE TRUTH...I am talking about "IT"..."THE TRUTH"...not talking about me and or "my truth"

            And THE TRUTH favors, nor respects anyones person, HE is NOT a respecter of persons.

            THE TRUTH stands far above me and or you...I just point to THE TRUTH.smile

            1. tantrum profile image59
              tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                So you're not answering me !! That's rude !

            2. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I think your pointer is broken.

  45. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 11 years ago

    I'm giving him the chance to explain himself in  plain English

    1. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If this is a universe of difference how come you know among all those differences which is the truth?....I'm still waiting

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        no answers....as always lol

        1. tantrum profile image59
          tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The truth is you can't back up your truth lol  I'm out of here! Bye

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
            quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The truth is, I am in one of 4-5 forums at any given time and I do not wait around, if nobody is posting, I go to another one. Plus I have emails to deal with, writing hubs, phone calls, web site matters etc...so stop crying OK?

            So enough with you feeling like I just sit here and wait for you to post up...so if you post 4 things in 10-15 minutes, you get to wait.

            You said "If this is a universe of difference how come you know among all those differences which is the truth?....I'm still waiting'

            I know THE TRUTH and THE TRUTH is the ultimate reality, it is the whole of logic, it is without a lie, it is all knowing, it has no fears, it has no needs, it sees all and answers to nobody, it's wisdom cannot be comprehended, nor it's understanding grasped.

            And that is just to start.

            1. tantrum profile image59
              tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              If its wisdom can't be comprehended nor its understanding grasped, how could you know then ?   You're not making sense

              1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                It's called revelation. The revealing of wisdom and understanding, the more you seek it the more you receive, I am a nobody, just a vessel who receives as I seek and am given to.

                Again, I am not THE TRUTH...HE IS.

                1. tantrum profile image59
                  tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Is this all you have to say? A revelation ? That's nothing... you can't prove anything

                  1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Again, I will answer you when I get to you or can you NOT see that I am talking to 4 people in this forum alone or do you think that YOU are the only other one in here?

                    Just post up and come back.

                    As far as "proving anything"...THE TRUTH does not need to be proven to anyone...HE does not answer to any man to be proven anymore than I answer to you for how long it takes me to reply.

  46. Davinagirl3 profile image61
    Davinagirl3posted 11 years ago

    I thought this was supposed to be a polite discussion!  Here's the deal... No one is going to change anyone's mind, so deal with it.  If you believe what you believe... great for you.  It shouldn't matter to you what other people think anyway.  What's with all the hostility?

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Ummm...if you think my statements to be a bit rough, read the scriptures, I do not even come close to how some of them talked.

      If you think me to be harsh...I cant' even stand in the same ball park with the way GOD can talk to someone who challenges HIM...not even in the same country.

      Shalom

      1. Davinagirl3 profile image61
        Davinagirl3posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I have read the scriptures and, frankly, I prefer them.  I think it is laughable that you think you should be harsh because God is.  I also think it is laughable that you automatically assumed I was singling you out with my post.  God? Is that you?

        1. tantrum profile image59
          tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          lol lol lol

        2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I do NOT think it is laughable to be harsh...just do it when it is called for is all.

          In general I am frank, direct and to the point, no ambiguity here. I tend to speak like a military person.

          I can also be gentle, kind, empathetic and nice.

          It just really depends on the challenge at hand like I said.

          I did think you were talking to me because I was the one talking like this.

          Sorry if I offended you sister smile

  47. sgreen1025 profile image52
    sgreen1025posted 11 years ago

    I'm actually shocked at many of these responses, but I know I shouldn't be. I was raised Baptist and now attend a small non-denominational church. I consider myself a Christian. (Unfortunately, this title does not carry much weight in this world and Christians share the blame.) There is absolutely only way to God and heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. I, by no means, am perfect and never will be, but God understands this and loves me (and you) anyway. I recall some of the comments about how can an all loving God send people to hell. My response to this is that if you allowed someone to live everyday (and supplied provisions, protection and other essentials and even desires) and this person never expressed gratitude, cursed you, declared your nonexistence, completely ignored you, what would you do? Would you take this person in or send him away? I'm willing to bet that many, if not all of you, would send him away.

    I believe I am accurate in recalling another comment about not receiving answers from God. Interestingly, this was the topic of my Bible Study last night. The conclusion: it's likely that you will not hear God's voice if you do not read the Bible, pray, meditate, talk to God. These things are essential in being able to accurately recognize God's voice. How can you be sure that you are not hearing God's voice if you do not know God's voice? This goes back to my earlier example of how God can send people to hell. If you do not show any gratitude and just flat out ignore Him, why would He give you the time of day?

    I, by no means, declare myself an expert on this topic. However, I did just recently make the decision to be a serious Christian. I have a long way to go, but having lived the life I've lived, no one can tell me God is not real. Even more, my mother has lived for years with a bad heart. She just got a pacemaker in July and the nurse couldn't believe that she was living without one. There is no scientific explanation for that. That was purely God.

    One last thing - I believe someone mentioned not being able to find the right church. I had the same problem, when I decided to get back in church. Fortunately, God led me to my current affiliaton, where I get the truth - no sugarcoating, no cherries - the raw truth. I learned that this was it for me by the way I felt - convicted, but loved. You should really be careful of pastors who always try to make you feel good or shy away from offending others, never acknowledge your existence or are too harsh. (I'm sure there are others.) The Bible warns of false prophets and the world and cable are full of them today.

    1. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Agre ,even I'm a non believer. But i don't like people preaching me and not being able 2 sustain what they proclaim as Truth : ) if u know what I mean

    2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      WELL SAID AND AMEN...glad you found a place that does not tickle your ears.

  48. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 11 years ago

    Sow here is the truth,  ...oh I see... the pointer is broken...is that so marine ?  Unbelievable lol

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, and that is "THE TRUTH"!

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Allelluyah !!! you find it !  So talk me about it. I haven't  seen it yet smile

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The Truth is..... No one has a clue. lol

          1. tantrum profile image59
            tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well you should ! you just found it. Comn man, shoot lol

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Ok, I will "shoot". I think the truth is, we are supposed to evolve, learn, teach, grow, individualize. Not maintain a follower mindset that society and nature breeds us to have. I think the point is to evolve from the animal mind into the human mind or beyond. We have clearly not evolved as a majority into an individual mindset.

              1. tantrum profile image59
                tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I don't think that's the truth ,but a very intelligent way of  seeing reality. Individual mindset is allrigt for individuals, and that's the way I live, but society hates it becuase it makes it looses  all control

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Ty, Nice addition.

                2. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I wanted to add on this. Maybe it's not "Absolute Truth", but truth. If the universe is continually expanding/evolving along with life, why would it not be truth to continue evolution or speed it up? Look at the strides "we" have made in technology in the last 200 years. Would you not say that was evolving in technology/science?

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image80
                    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Yes ,and those minds that designed ,created could they not have been also programmed to think in a sequential pattern?, hence telephone -cellphone-radio-stereo etc etc.
                    Would that also be a truth.

              2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                THE MIND of MESSIAH is the MIND above all minds...HE IS THE TRUTH....HIS mind cannot even be comprehended, it is far above any human mind, far above any evolution, far above our understanding or comprehension.

                It can be sought out though, and with more seeking comes more revealing of HIS MIND.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  If you are thinking there is a Messiah, you are failing to think with an individual mind.

                  1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
                    quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Like I told you before about 9 times, I am an individual and can think quite well. i do not accept THE MIND OF THE TRUTH / MESSIAH without first realizing that HE knows more, sees more and understands more than any individual, or for that matter all of the human races individual minds put together.

                    You cannot fathom that there is SOMEONE GREATER than you and understands everything you think and knows your thoughts before you even think them...now that's a MIND for ya

  49. Bibowen profile image93
    Bibowenposted 11 years ago

    Warning! Lecture Ahead....

    There is too much preoccupation with method. The most important thing is what is being said, not how it is delivered. If you have to be softened, coddled, soothed every time you hear something, you are not going to know much that is worth knowing. In fact, your world is going to be a small one.

    So if he uses bold print? It's his quarter to spend. In the Old Testament, God told the prophets to preach to the people of judgment to come. They were as offensive as this guy. And how did people respond? About the same as on here. They stopped their ears; they didn't want to hear it. It wasn't sophisticated. They were stoned, beaten and sawed into for proclaiming an unpopular message to people who had to be verbally stroked before they could listen.

    Wipe your feelings off your sleeves. If you oppose people's views, expect to be hit back. If you don't want to be hit, go bake cookies and then send us all some. I work hard (overtime) never to take the comments personally.

    Yes, that was a lecture, but I told you it was before I started....

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      lol Good job. Give him fuel to believe he is chosen by God.

    2. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Not much I can add to that brother, so I won't say anything but AMEN and AMEN.

  50. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 11 years ago

    quietnessandtrust, You're not going to convince me without proves, so I think this argument is pointless. I respect you 4 ur belief, but I can't accept it. I'm sorry smile

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
      quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are the one who needs the proof, you can go find it, that is what I did, nobody searched it out FOR me and GOD is to be sought out. If you want to KNOW THE TRUTH...you seek, you knock, you search and you SHALL find it.

      Not sure of your sincerity here though.

      Shalom

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Well that's insulting ! you question my sincerity ? well you got yourself an enemy

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image60
          quietnessandtrustposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Your enemy is GOD...until you come to HIM in all humilty that is.

          I just deliver the messages.

          Shalom

        2. tantrum profile image59
          tantrumposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Messiahs don't have mind as they are not people

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