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Does GOD ````` Negotiate?

  1. underhiswings profile image56
    underhiswingsposted 8 years ago

    Does GOD reason with mankind?

    Argue things out?

    Discuss matters with mankind and make a discussion afterwards?

    Does GOD ever come to people and say what He intends to do and then people argue with Him and He says, OK then, we do it your way?

    1. Margie01 profile image56
      Margie01posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      If you read the bible you would not even ask this question; why would the creator of everything in his perfection debate with us (sinners) and sometimes opt to go our way?  Following him you won't want to debate.

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I have been reading it everyday for 30 years and I did not ask the question for my own benefit or amusement. smile

        Based on your response it would appear that you might be giving an opinion rather than truth.

        So what is your answer because you made a statement and asked a question, not an answer.

    2. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      How can a myth discuss with Men or talk to them?. the prove is nobody ever spoke with God. Who heard his voice ? Is it low, high, what ?In which language ?

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        ooh, i always wondered that too!

      2. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        He speaks them all.

        1. tantrum profile image59
          tantrumposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Easy answer.sad  Have you heard him ?How does it sound? what did he say?

          1. underhiswings profile image56
            underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            He sounds like whatever He wants to in order to get the point across.
            He can make any sound He wants. He can speak in silence as well, you have to listen to the stillness. If He wants to be audible, He can. His voice can be thunder, can be like water, can be a whisper, can be like a man, sound like the wind, can be gentle, can be harsh.

            1. profile image0
              cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              "you can paint with all the colors of the winnnd...." smile

            2. tantrum profile image59
              tantrumposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Sounds like He-Man  big_smile

    3. mobilephone guide profile image58
      mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      that would not be "godly"

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting that Jacob wrestled with GOD all night long and said
        "I will not let YOU go until YOU bless me" and so GOD did.

        Jacob was godly. It's not as if you are going to hurt HIM if you wrestle.

        1. mobilephone guide profile image58
          mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          he must've had shrooms

    4. Danny R Hand profile image60
      Danny R Handposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      God is unchanging. When man or woman decides to go outside his law, be it spiritual or physical, they will deal with the established order. Although at times God may be merciful. That being through grace, not bargaining.

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        So no place in the scripture did GOD negotiate with anyone?
        Have you read it all?

        1. Danny R Hand profile image60
          Danny R Handposted 8 years ago in reply to this
          1. underhiswings profile image56
            underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            To present ones body as a living sacrifice as an offering...sound familiar?
            Sounds like we do have something to offer. Of course we do not bring our own righteousness as an offering (filthy rags). And even if we did not have anything to offer, He is still kind enough to reason things out with us.

            As we grow in maturity this part of the relationship gets deeper.

            I know I can offer all of me and nothing less...GOD sees this as a lot more than "nothing"...He does not ask us to do things and count it nothing...it is called our worship and that IS...what we offer.

            I do not know who told you we have nothing to offer, but you will not find that concept in scripture. Why would it say to give, if we have nothing to offer? Why does it say bring an offering? Why are we chastised if we do not bring gifts and offerings?

            Jacob, Abraham, Samson and I could name scores of others who negotiated with GOD all throughout the scriptures always did it knowing the kindness and compassion of GOD, so they were not afraid to do so.

            GOD has a consistent pattern of coming to people and reasoning with them just like a Father would. big_smile

        2. UpHisAss profile image56
          UpHisAssposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Excellent work. Great job. Preach the WORD louder that more may agree there is only one way. Your way. They are listening, now is your chance.

          Does GOD negotiate? I have his word and I CAN say ABSOLUTELY that HE does. What do you want?

          1. Danny R Hand profile image60
            Danny R Handposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            In the scheme of things I know very little. What I do know is that to claim to know all is to make myself equal with God. Which I in NO WAY even want to suggest. I don't even suggest that people follow any particular teaching.  That is between them and God. I personally try to keep judgement and pride at bay.
            Why do you ask me what I want? I dont understand the context of that question.

            1. UpHisAss profile image56
              UpHisAssposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              That is because I was not speaking to you.

    5. Daniel Carter profile image89
      Daniel Carterposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      If God is supposed to be constant and unchanging, as religions and scripture says, then we only negotiate with ourselves. That's my take on it. What we fool ourselves into believing is that God is a person like us. If he's all powerful, all knowing, etc. then he ISN'T like us. To me that simply means that by getting on this plane of talking to God that we learn more about ourselves than we do anything else. I don't know why some "negotiations" seem to work and some not, but to me it's the same as trying to explain how some miracles happen, and others, despite desperate prayer, don't happen.

      I don't know why or how. I only have more questions about it all as I get older. I just know there are good things that happen that we can't explain, and I think negotiating with God is more about self discovery than anything.

    6. andromida profile image76
      andromidaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      God loves only one way traffic.

    7. carolegalassi profile image68
      carolegalassiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      In my opinion God does not negotiate.  When judgement day comes there will be no speaking on your part.  There is no just coming under the radar.  You will either go to heaven or hell.

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am talking about while mankind is here on the earth, long before the final judgment. smile

    8. nikki1 profile image55
      nikki1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      He gives us the ablity to make our own choices. God is a spirit. He is a loving spirit. He has a code and requests that we respect them. Called the 10 commandments.  There is no need to argue. With what he has given us. We all should be saying thank you to him.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        there are 613 commandments in the bible. Complete with threats. smile

        1. underhiswings profile image56
          underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Promises "if you obey, blessing and life, if you do not, cursing and death"
          Promises that can be counted on.

          Tell you what Earnest, why don't you take a few dozen commandments and run along and break them and see what happens to your life. You can start with having sex with animals, rape, murder, sex with your children, your brothers wife, lying, stealing, sodomy, perjury, property damage, lewdness, witchcraft, breaking your word, cursing your neighbor, moving the boundary markers of your property, bearing false witness in court and sacrificing your children on a red hot statue of Molech!!!

          Then come back and tell us how it all went for you if you live to tell about it. Go ahead and break them all, they come complete with sowing and reaping.
          In fact, why don't you keep a diary. If it's all just stupid commandments then run along and break them Earnest. Keep mocking as you commit lawlessness while you're at it too.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Lion again!

          2. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Tell you what dogs breath, I have no reason to bother with your insinuations. You are a filthy minded perverted despot, and not someone to be trusted.
            Look at the trash you speak about people you do not know.
            I will leave the despicable acts you describe for you to involve yourself in.
            Your thoughts, your stuff. The world is a mirror! lol

            1. underhiswings profile image56
              underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Like I said, if you want to mock the commandments...run out and break them or just shut up about it. smile

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                And as I should have said, you are a filthy minded peace of human excrement!

                1. getitrite profile image79
                  getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  TRULY DISTURBING!!!

  2. Dolores Monet profile image89
    Dolores Monetposted 8 years ago

    Didn't Abraham bargain with God?

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Correct, several times.

    2. profile image0
      ralwusposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      He did, and so did Moses. Ezekiel did it too. I just did recently and here I am.

  3. ediggity profile image61
    ediggityposted 8 years ago

    I think GOD already laid down the law in the BIBLE.  Every time one disobeys the lord they are essentially trying to argue, or bargain.  Just hope he hears your call for forgiveness.

    1. Misha profile image73
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Did he tell you this? lol

      1. ediggity profile image61
        ediggityposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Actually, GOD told everyone this, but it's your choice to listen.  Good luck.

        1. Misha profile image73
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Surely, after he proves 1. he does exist, 2. he is not Satan smile

          1. ediggity profile image61
            ediggityposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Ask him to. So you believe in Satan, but not GOD?  Very confusing.

            1. Misha profile image73
              Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I have so many voices in my head I can't really tell who exactly of them is invisible super butcher. smile

              1. profile image0
                cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                haha!!  lol

                http://i37.tinypic.com/2mgjtsl.gif

  4. darkside profile image81
    darksideposted 8 years ago

    He made a bet with the devil in the book of Job.

    And some time between the Old Testament and the New Testament polygamy went from the What's Hot list to the What's Not list.

  5. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Afraid not Misha, you're gonna get scripture again as "proof" lol

  6. Misha profile image73
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    You think this time too? yikes

    Do they ever think?

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      No, they just assert their belief then post "supporting" scripture. smile

  7. Pearldiver profile image88
    Pearldiverposted 8 years ago

    Yeah a lady at Subway said he asked to have them give him a Celebrity Discount of $2.00.. just becoz the special was his favourite! hmm
    She also reckons that he walks amoung us (well.. through Subway anyway)and claims to know it is Him by the way they find the Gerkins cut and the crumbs left behind. hmm

    Pssst: pass it on.... smile

  8. underhiswings profile image56
    underhiswingsposted 8 years ago

    I would hope you 3 or 7 would be somewhat serious big_smile

    1. Pearldiver profile image88
      Pearldiverposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps we hoped the same of you! Should you not be writing a hub? hmm

    2. darkside profile image81
      darksideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      My response was serious.

      In Job it appears that God and Satan had themselves a bet on Job.

      In the OT David, Solomon and others had several wives. But now, not so much.

      Dolores Monet brought up a good point too.

      Care to respond?

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I know you were serious, so it did not apply to you. big_smile

  9. Misha profile image73
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    After you manage 1 and 2, we can talk about it. And no, bible does not count as evidence. smile

  10. profile image0
    TMinutposted 8 years ago

    he did allow negotiation about sodom - and agreed to new terms

  11. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    This thread is begging the question (assuming an answer in the way the question is phrased).

  12. sooner than later profile image56
    sooner than laterposted 8 years ago

    off the top of my head I think of the book of Job.

    then the men Abraham and Moses.

    1. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Were you there?

  13. underhiswings profile image56
    underhiswingsposted 8 years ago

    Did Jesus ever negotiate?
    Tell someone the answer is no and then they said something that brought about a yes after they pleaded their case?

  14. Lisa HW profile image82
    Lisa HWposted 8 years ago

    What human being is to say that if there is a God, and if someone were to aim to have a personal relationship (even friendship) with Him He might not be willing to do the occasional negotiating?  How does any human being know, for example, if a person is faced with a couple of choices or difficult options and does "bargaining" with God (one of these things like, "If I can't have both then would you let it be...."), that the choices aren't really the person's and maybe even some kind of test; and that the choice he makes when he attempts to bargain may be the one he's given?

    The day God shows up in the sky and yells, "I don't ever, ever, negotiate" is the day I'll accept that He doesn't.  Other than that, I don't think there's a human being (now or ever) who should presume to be too certain about what God does or doesn't do.

  15. getitrite profile image79
    getitriteposted 8 years ago

    This is useless and very unintelligent. God is immutable, REMEMBER!

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      GOD is love and that is immutable. Love does negotiate.

      1. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I guess Love is out there negotiating all over the universe-with planets, quasars, blackholes, and the like.

        1. underhiswings profile image56
          underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Your mocking is well noted.

    2. darkside profile image81
      darksideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Socrates once said "The unexamined life is not worth living."

      1. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        What does that mean, in this context? I don't quite follow you.

        1. underhiswings profile image56
          underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Seems like you lack wisdom and you might want to be quiet and learn then.
          The context and meaning are self contained in the statement.
          Go examine your life or do not bother to live it.

          You say.
          "This is useless and very unintelligent."

          You think what I am saying is useless, only shows your lack of understanding and wisdom.smile

  16. rebekahELLE profile image87
    rebekahELLEposted 8 years ago

    why wouldn't God negotiate?

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      God is within man so who is negotiating with who?

    2. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Here is some of your god's negotiation!

         If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.   (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

      Sick little god! smile

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yep, lying in the name of GOD is a capitol crime and it should be.
        Gets rid of liars!!

  17. profile image0
    TMinutposted 8 years ago

    QUOTE:
    I do not know who told you we have nothing to offer, but you will not find that concept in scripture. Why would it say to give, if we have nothing to offer? Why does it say bring an offering? Why are we chastised if we do not bring gifts and offerings?
    -------
    It doesn't necessarily mean that we have something to give, it's for our benefit, don't you think? If we're commanded to do so, it's not an offering anymore anyway. The tithes and such were used to support the priesthood and to help the poor. Giving was how people understand that we are all to be one, a society that freely shares would be a united society, one team.

    I can't really think of how to make what I'm thinking clear enough here, I'll try again tomorrow. But having something to give to persuade I AM to negotiate violates the intent I believe. How often in a conversation or even an argument do we see things differently? If not immediately, then while thinking it over later?

  18. underhiswings profile image56
    underhiswingsposted 8 years ago

    Call it "reasoning things out" or "an argument" or "negotiating"
    GOD often has had conversations with mankind that were discussions and reasonings and arguments and negotiations.

    The first one I can think of was with Cain and it was about an offering.

    Not real sure what the disagreements with this concept are about, but if your just read the accounts in the scriptures, they clearly show GOD having discussions that state HIS intent to do something and then after talking about it with the ones HE loved, HE gave them what they asked for and sometimes the person had nothing to say after hearing the argument of GOD, but they still discussed it.

    Why do you think GOD says "come now and let US...reason together"?

    It is NOT beyond HIM to reason (same as to argue) with mankind. big_smile

    He did it with Moses, Abraham, Wrestled with Jacob all night, He told Hezekiah he was going to die and then he pleaded with GOD and was allowed to live 15 more years. GOD reasoned with David, Solomon, The City of Nineveh who were told they were going to be toast, but were spared after the repented. He granted the requests of scores of men and women after having "debates" with them. How about the prophet who spread a fleece before GOD?

    Jesus reasoned and argued with people quite often.

    Where do you think we got our ability to reason and argue? It's not evil to do so. Most people are afraid to reason and argue and negotiate with GOD, like as if you were going to hurt HIS feelings or something.

    HE flat told Moses to step aside and I am going to wipe out these stiff necked people, then Moses reasoned with GOD and GOD said, OK fine, your request is granted.

    It is a mysterious thing no doubt, but undeniable it appears all throughout the history of GOD and mankind interacting. Yes, sometimes GOD makes it clear that some things are not open for discussion. big_smile

  19. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Is this your idea of reasoning?

    The Lord has made everything for his own ends, even the wicked for the evil day.   (Proverbs 16:4 NAB)
    and then punish what he made? No reasoning there either! smile

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yep, do not act wicked and you do not get the prize of the evil day.
      Simple enough.

  20. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    And how do you make sense of these sorts of quotes, this from a loving all knowing entity?


    About the same time I realized that some of the men of Judah had married women from Ashdod, Ammon, and Moab.  Even worse, half their children spoke in the language of Ashdod or some other people and could not speak the language of Judah at all.  So I confronted them and called down curses on them.  I beat some of them and pulled out their hair.  I made them swear before God that they would not let their children intermarry with the pagan people of the land.  "Wasn't this exactly what led King Solomon of Israel into sin?"  I demanded.  "There was no king from any nation who could compare to him, and God loved him and made him king over all Israel.  But even he was led into sin by his foreign wives.  How could you even think of committing this sinful deed and acting unfaithfully toward God by marrying foreign women?   (Nehemiah 13:23-27 NLT)

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds to me like going astray is not a good idea and GOD means business.
      KINGS mean business as I would expect them to.

  21. getitrite profile image79
    getitriteposted 8 years ago

    Where would a person get the balls to negotiate with God?  I would be afraid to even think that. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!

  22. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    No god, nothing ever said by a god, no proof, just myths. smile

    1. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        how can he negotiate if he didn't get his job done right ? he made a mess of his work ! Who could want to negotiate with him ?

  23. underhiswings profile image56
    underhiswingsposted 8 years ago

    Here is a very candid and lengthy conversation / negotiation and notice Abraham discerns GOD "I am going to destroy them" and then starts with 50 and negotiates down to 10 in order to spare the city. I think this is a window into the ability to reason / argue / negotiate with GOD.

    Gen 18:20        So the Lord told Abraham, "I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil, and that everything they do is wicked.
    Gen 18:21       I am going down to see whether or not these reports are true. Then I will know."
    Gen 18:22       The two other men went on toward Sodom, but the Lord remained with Abraham for a while.
    Gen 18:23       Abraham approached him and said, "Will you destroy both innocent and guilty alike?
    Gen 18:24       Suppose you find fifty innocent people there within the city-will you still destroy it, and not spare it for their sakes?
    Gen 18:25       Surely you wouldn't do such a thing, destroying the innocent with the guilty. Why, you would be treating the innocent and the guilty exactly the same! Surely you wouldn't do that! Should not the Judge of all the earth do what is right?"
    Gen 18:26       And the Lord replied, "If I find fifty innocent people in Sodom, I will spare the entire city for their sake."
    Gen 18:27       Then Abraham spoke again. "Since I have begun, let me go on and speak further to my Lord, even though I am but dust and ashes.
    Gen 18:28       Suppose there are only forty-five? Will you destroy the city for lack of five?" And the Lord said, "I will not destroy it if I find forty-five."
    Gen 18:29       Then Abraham pressed his request further. "Suppose there are only forty?" And the Lord replied, "I will not destroy it if there are forty."
    Gen 18:30       "Please don't be angry, my Lord," Abraham pleaded. "Let me speak-suppose only thirty are found?" And the Lord replied, "I will not destroy it if there are thirty."
    Gen 18:31       Then Abraham said, "Since I have dared to speak to the Lord, let me continue-suppose there are only twenty?" And the Lord said, "Then I will not destroy it for the sake of the twenty."
    Gen 18:32       Finally, Abraham said, "Lord, please do not get angry; I will speak but once more! Suppose only ten are found there?" And the Lord said, "Then, for the sake of the ten, I will not destroy it." (but HE never found even 10)
    Gen 18:33       The Lord went on his way when he had finished his conversation with Abraham, and Abraham returned to his tent.

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      It is clear, here, that Abraham was, completely, delusional. And God is depicted as very indecisive and somewhat foolish. And why is he saying "I have HEARD that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil?" Isn't he suppose to know?! I mean he is GOD?!!! And who the hell did he hear it from?

      GOD and not GOD at the sametime.

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        HE hears from where HE sits, nobody told HIM anything.
        Yes, HE did know, HE knew what HE heard the city doing.

        Indecisive? Not hardly, HE came to discuss the matter with HIS friend (Abraham was called the friend of GOD) and nothing wrong with talking to ones friend before making a decision.

        There is such a person who is called a mediator between GOD and mankind, always has been.

        Nobody is delusional who reasons with GOD, nobody that is who is not afraid to do it. Again, Jacob wrestled with GOD all night about something, big deal.

        Your perception about GOD is an illusion. smile

        1. getitrite profile image79
          getitriteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I've been made into a strawman! And I'm no longer present. Here the strawman takes over.

  24. underhiswings profile image56
    underhiswingsposted 8 years ago

    Perhaps if people were less afraid to negotiate and more willing to engage GOD in an argument things would go differently. smile

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Again, God cannot be God and not God at the same time!

      1. underhiswings profile image56
        underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Well your understanding is lacking about GOD and HIS character.

        HE is a KING and Kings negotiate with their servants and all are HIS servants. smile

        1. mobilephone guide profile image58
          mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          do we negotiate with ants?

          we crush them, spray insecticides, burn them, pour hot water, turn them to candies, study them and put them on a glass. sounds like the bible.

          1. underhiswings profile image56
            underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Ants are not made in our image and likeness.
            Let's try to have serious questions. smile

            1. mobilephone guide profile image58
              mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              god is everything isn't he not? oh i forgot, he SHOULD have our likeness and image.

              1. underhiswings profile image56
                underhiswingsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                That question is a double negative.

                1. mobilephone guide profile image58
                  mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  [edit for great justice]Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

  25. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Or perhaps if they read and understood the bible without being indoctrinated, we would have no more religion based around a god who's writers had him claiming electricity as his power in the sky! What a shirt full of rubbish! smile

      He covers his hands with the lightning, and commands it to strike the mark.  Its crashing tells about him; he is jealous with anger against iniquity.

        "At this also my heart trembles, and leaps out of its place.  Listen, listen to the thunder of his voice and the rumbling that comes from his mouth.  Under the whole heaven he lets it loose, and his lightning to the corners of the earth.  After it his voice roars; he thunders with his majestic voice and he does not restrain the lightnings when his voice is heard.  God thunders wondrously with his voice; he does great things that we cannot comprehend.

    Laughable! lol

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 8 years ago in reply to this
  26. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Rotten nasty little psychotic god!

  27. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Some of gods little ideas for mankind to contemplate.. smile

      "I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD.  "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die.  I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD.  "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship.  I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear.  For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars.  They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too.  So now I will destroy them!  And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do.  They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings."   (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

    Neurotic crazed little god. smile

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      When you do not follow instructions and commandments and law, this is what happens, yep, sure does. What you failed to mention is the practices of Baal and Molech worship Earnest...by leaving that out, you are telling a lie. I know you are aware of what the practices where too, and you always leave them out. Buring children alive comes to mind first. Guess we should just let them parents have a nice day eh?

      "Neurotic crazed little god."......not hardly Earnest....it's called justice!!!

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Justice !! O Y G !! yikes
        You're not serious !! yikes yikes

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sadly I think the poster is serious!
          Anyone offering up this naive crap has a closed mind. smile

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Not to mention his avatar representing an animal famous for eating Christians! LOL

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Now there is a quaint idea that could be re introduced! lol

  28. aka-dj profile image76
    aka-djposted 8 years ago

    Rom 9:21  Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?
    Isa 29:16  O your perversity! Shall the former be counted as the potter's clay; for shall the work say of him who made it, He did not make me? Or shall the thing formed say to him who formed it, He had no understanding?

  29. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Yes when threats were not enough, reason was tried. Not very good reason mind you! smile

    1. aka-dj profile image76
      aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      So says the clay to the potter.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this


        No not to the potter to me. Remember, I think it is a myth. smile

        1. aka-dj profile image76
          aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          You see? You THINK, it's a myth. That does not make it so. In your mind it does, in mine it does not.
          Mind you, the stuff you write, and the thoughts you present, I have to agree with you. It's all a myth!!

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this



            I think. So shoot me! smile Of course I think it's a myth, there is no proof, the story is anything but consistent, it demonstrates it's psychological naivety clearly, and degraded people consistently throughout.

            Men do that, not gods. smile

            1. aka-dj profile image76
              aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I don't want to shoot you. Men indeed do as you say. As for the reality of the Gospel, well, we are commanded to preach it, teach it, share it. All the while, knowing that some will receive it, some will reject it. Some will even attack those who do so. All too obvious here on HP. Only here the attacks are disguised as "opinions" and reduced to (mere) words. sad

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Commanded says it all for me. smile

                1. aka-dj profile image76
                  aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Good. We are on the same page then.
                  (As if) lol

              2. getitrite profile image79
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                These are not attacks disguised as "opinions" these are facts.  We present facts disguised as nothing but FACTS. It is a FACT that the belief in imaginary beings is delusional.  Thats not an opinion. It is also a FACT that just because billions of people believe in imaginary beings doesn't make it true.  We are trying to encourage you to heal yourself from this delusion by making you think--for just one moment.  THINK! and your delusion will disappear.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  getitrite, you got it right again! smile

                  1. getitrite profile image79
                    getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks. My friend

  30. VioletSun profile image70
    VioletSunposted 8 years ago

    Does God negotiate? um... don't think so! These are human traits being attributed to God by man's idea of what God should be like. We hear of God being angry, jealous, even vengeful,  these are again, human emotions and projections. With thoughts like these, we create the separation we see in the world, and not the unity many of us seek. smile

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Please read this an see if any negotiating is going on.

      Gen 19:1       That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom, and Lot was sitting there as they arrived. When he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed low to the ground.
      Gen 19:2       "My lords," he said, "come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up in the morning as early as you like and be on your way again." "Oh no," they said, "we'll just spend the night out here in the city square."
      Gen 19:3       But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. He set a great feast before them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast. After the meal,
      Gen 19:4       as they were preparing to retire for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house.
      Gen 19:5       They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out so we can have sex with them."
      Gen 19:6       Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him.
      Gen 19:7       "Please, my brothers," he begged, "don't do such a wicked thing.
      Gen 19:8       Look-I have two virgin daughters. Do with them as you wish, but leave these men alone, for they are under my protection."
      Gen 19:9       "Stand back!" they shouted. "Who do you think you are? We let you settle among us, and now you are trying to tell us what to do! We'll treat you far worse than those other men!" And they lunged at Lot and began breaking down the door.
      Gen 19:10       But the two angels reached out and pulled Lot in and bolted the door.
      Gen 19:11       Then they blinded the men of Sodom so they couldn't find the doorway.
      Gen 19:12       "Do you have any other relatives here in the city?" the angels asked. "Get them out of this place-sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone else.
      Gen 19:13       For we will destroy the city completely. The stench of the place has reached the Lord, and he has sent us to destroy it."
      Gen 19:14       So Lot rushed out to tell his daughters' fianc├ęs, "Quick, get out of the city! The Lord is going to destroy it." But the young men thought he was only joking.
      Gen 19:15       At dawn the next morning the angels became insistent. "Hurry," they said to Lot. "Take your wife and your two daughters who are here. Get out of here right now, or you will be caught in the destruction of the city."
      Gen 19:16       When Lot still hesitated, the angels seized his hand and the hands of his wife and two daughters and rushed them to safety outside the city, for the Lord was merciful.
      Gen 19:17       "Run for your lives!" the angels warned. "Do not stop anywhere in the valley. And don't look back! Escape to the mountains, or you will die."
      Gen 19:18       "Oh no, my lords, please," Lot begged.
      Gen 19:19       "You have been so kind to me and saved my life, and you have granted me such mercy. But I cannot go to the mountains. Disaster would catch up to me there, and I would soon die.
      Gen 19:20       See, there is a small village nearby. Please let me go there instead; don't you see how small it is? Then my life will be saved."
      Gen 19:21       "All right," the angel said, "I will grant your request. I will not destroy that little village.
      Gen 19:22       But hurry! For I can do nothing until you are there." From that time on, that village was known as Zoar.

      Gen 19:23       The sun was rising as Lot reached the village.
      Gen 19:24       Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the heavens on Sodom and Gomorrah.
      Gen 19:25       He utterly destroyed them, along with the other cities and villages of the plain, eliminating all life-people, plants, and animals alike.
      Gen 19:26       But Lot's wife looked back as she was following along behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
      Gen 19:27       The next morning Abraham was up early and hurried out to the place where he had stood in the Lord's presence.
      Gen 19:28       He looked out across the plain to Sodom and Gomorrah and saw columns of smoke and fumes, as from a furnace, rising from the cities there.
      Gen 19:29       But God had listened to Abraham's request and kept Lot safe, removing him from the disaster that engulfed the cities on the plain.

  31. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    A nd the bible is full of them! smile

    1. loveofnight profile image84
      loveofnightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      this is true, that is why i tell people that i was raised a christian but life made me agnostic. the bible is full of wars that god headed telling them to kill men, women and children.it's a nice story but it is not a way of life.man is always trying to take charge and be in control by reminding you of a god who would torture an imperfect man in hell fire for an eternity..makes no sense to me.

  32. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago

    Wouldn't a supreme being already know how the negotiations would turn out?  If so, what purpose to negotiate?

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And knowing the outcome for mankind after making the devil and the garden of eden to tempt them, what would be the point of making man anyway?

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        God solitaire?

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Apparently! Although I have noticed that in these forums that the beliefs vary a lot in conclusions about god.

          The idea is to get the selective reading right. If the old testament is quoted and it disagrees with religionists, they just disconnect it until needed again to prove their religion is right, then it is OK to quote from. smile
          Of course the new testament although toned down, still has plenty of threats.

          The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers.  They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.   (Matthew 13:41-42 NAB)

          smile

          1. underhiswings profile image56
            underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers.  They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.   (Matthew 13:41-42 NAB)

            AND ???

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              And once again you quote from the book of hate. You just don't get how psychologically naive this is do you?
              First you make an omnipotent, omniscient, omni potent god, then you endow it with every low life hate filled psychotic trait and use it to threaten others with. Stupid!

            2. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              AND, I don't believe any of it!

              1. underhiswings profile image56
                underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                That is your choice and the truth is not changed by men.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Sure it is, common men made up the bible.  There is absolutely no proof it was inspired by god in the first place.

    2. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      GOD does know every possible outcome that can occur, no matter which you decide to say or do, HE knows all the combinations.
      If you say nothing, then it will be as HE said, if you talk to HIM, HE can grant your request, or not. Much like talking to your father, he knew what you would say, but talked to you anyways.

  33. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    There is always calm waters after a storm.
    There always will be light.
    There will always be Faith
    Light leads to Life.

  34. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    If by light you mean education and understanding, then the best strategy would be to read about real life, rather than following ignorant 2,000 year old doctrine based on a flat earth that is 6,000 year old. Madness! smile

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Utter trash...the scripture states the earth is round and you should know that...you studied it Earnest...you lie!!!

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't tell lies, or repeat them from old untrue books.
        Want me to find a scripture from your old untrue book?

      2. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Do I?

        the flatness of the earth's surface is required by verses like Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds. If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to the earth's farthest bounds, but this is impossible on a spherical earth. Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory. Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him.

        1. underhiswings profile image56
          underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You lack understanding...no use explaining it to you...you think with a carnal mind and reason from this realm.
          Every eye can see His cloud at the same time as it is not a natural cloud and He will encircle the earth with it and He will come as the lightning and move even faster and appear as brightness able to be seen by all.
          I am not going to bother to tell you about the others, you just want to mock.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It is pretty easy to mock rubbish interpretations like this.
            God also took credit for the power of lightning in another scripture. It is all goat droppings. smile

            1. getitrite profile image79
              getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Earnest, put on your dunce cap and come sit in the back of the class with me.  This person is just to intelligent for us to debate.  We totally lack sufficient understanding. We are so inferior. And god is just so wise. SCARY! lol

  35. loveofnight profile image84
    loveofnightposted 7 years ago

    to me the BIBLE means...BASIC,  INFORMATION,  BEFORE,  LEAVING,  EARTH. a good BOOK but a BOOK none the less

  36. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    Oh! are you in an angry mood.
    Sure if i spent my time reading about life.
    I wouldn't be able to live my own life.
    I don't read the Bible i just say the Rosary.
    It gets me by.

  37. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Well good or bad mood I have little time for the bible.
    Do you know the bible well? smile

  38. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    I don't Know the Bible at all Mr earnestshub.Surely that does not make me out to be an unbeliever.Please excuse my spelling as i am Dyslexic.Can't help it.You say you have little time for the Bible. Which Bible would that be?You see where i get confused is that there have being thousands of Bibles printed and reprinted and reworded that i just don't read any of them.
    Although in saying that.I have being told to read none other that the old Jerusalem Bible.
    Mr Earnestshub,my only advise to you is gently and calmly is that if you have no time for the Bible just ignore it,and it will go away. Sometimes when people are trying to shove a different belief down your throat the best thing is to walk on.Famous U2 song.
    I respect your beliefs and you as a human being.Love and peace.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The points you have made are the reason I post here. It is not possible to read any bible and see it as truth. Mathematically it makes no sense that anyone can devise a religion that is "right" from reading these old stories. smile That is why I do not tolerate flat statements from the bible presented as truth. I do not like controlling lies no matter what the source.

  39. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    Mr Earnestshub.
    I do understand when you say that you do not believe in flat statements from the Bible.What has Maths got to do with it.That makes no sence to me.
    Who devised it.I am sure in the begining there was truth but because it has being passed down through the years it is like a story that keeps changing.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I mean that people use statements from the bible to support their beliefs, but there is so many ways to read the meaning, that to say "This is truth" is incorrect.
      The mathematical chances of any one person having the truth from the bible is a very long chance indeed.
      My opinion is that it is written by controlling men who used it to subjugate people, and is not even about truth. smile

      1. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
        ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        As i methioned before i am Dyslexic so please be patient with me earnestshub.All i can say is that throughout time and especially now we are all trying to be comformed by someone.
        All i will say is i live by the Ten Commandments and i say the Rosary
        Conform and be Dull!

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Whatever floats your boats!

        2. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well I agree with the first part.
          The 10 commandments are a part of many others, but they all come with threats!

          Nothing wrong with a lot of the common sense ones, but life teaches us those anyway. smile
          I could never believe in the hateful psychotic god of the bible or quoran. All about threats and control. Even a reasonable business manager does not use these tactics as they don't work.
          They wind up with robotic people as workers who can't think for themselves anymore.  smile

  40. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago

    He's lion!

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeh, he's been lyin since he got here! lol

  41. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    So your invisible sky fairy is gonna drop in for a chat? I'd like to see that! lol

  42. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    I'm gonna kill you all, Oh wait a minute I'm gonna be kind and leave some of you alive, gee I'm a great god! What a pile! lol

  43. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    And that Randy is why god looks after his own, and leaves the world to drown in hate. Oh and the god made devil is the cause of all the worlds problems, or man is because he .... well it's a long story! lol

  44. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    How about this earth.

    1 Chronicles 16:30: He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.

        Psalm 93:1: Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm

        Psalm 96:10: He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...

        Psalm 104:5: Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.

        Isaiah 45:18: ...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast.

    1. underhiswings profile image56
      underhiswingsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Obviously you do not understand the scriptures Earnest.
      Something round can and does have a foundation in the middle.

      The passage saying the earth is round is Isaiah 40:22:

      He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You need to be blind not to see this.

  45. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago

    This ought to be interesting!

  46. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    earnestshub,do you not sleep.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I always get 8 hours, and often 12 why do you ask?

  47. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    Because you always are on my computer when i plug into it.
    ow is everything down under?

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Not so bad. The economy is holding up fairly well, we have some much needed rain. smile
      Our Prime Minister is in America so politics is boring. smile

      1. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
        ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Oh! That's good news.
        I may return downunder when i become an old lady.
        Our's has just returned home from New York to a hackling.
        He got a lovely welcome home reception. Ah ha ha

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry to hear of the hacking. I love New York!
          Spent some holidays there in the 70's and again in the 90's.

  48. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    New York is a great city.
    Melbourne is a great city too.
    Dust storm over Sydney again, Whats all the fuss.Sure it used to be Bush before it was invaded by Mr Captain Cook.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Cook and his mob have got a lot to answer for, but it was a different world then.

      Yes I love Melbourne too. On the bay and two rivers with the ocean nearby and two hours to the snowfields!
      Population is around 4 Million now.

  49. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    The snowy Mountains.Great place.
    So are you enjoying the debate on your subject?

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Not really, I just do it because I believe that when people offer "proof" they should be able to prove it, especially if it is "out there" as far as logic. smile
      When religionists makes threats of death and worse from their gods, I object on moral grounds.

      I guess I do not like what I see as bad moral judgments. smile

      The snowy mountains are beautiful! smile

      1. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
        ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well in my opoion.Some just keep downloading scripture.
        I am thinking if they did'nt have the material to download
        could they Quote it all from memory.Just Curious.
        Do you not think that it depends on the different cultures that are replying to your opinions and topics of conversation.
        Oh! i only believe in one GOD. 'gods' don't interest me.
        I do enjoy listening to all inout though.Very interesting especially when it is totally amusing.I do get a laugh for the day.
        The proof is in the pudding as my Mother used to say.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I do not believe in any notion of god, as the bible is the only source, and I do not believe the bible. I have no beef with those who follow a religion, as long as they do not ram it down my throat. smile

  50. ScarletRyan1970 profile image46
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    True,true,
    Sometimes when listening to so much B.S i can hardlyly swallow.
    That wouln'nt happen here where i live, they would be put into a Nut house.Sure there are a load of Priests heading into the Goal here in Ireland for abuse.Big investigation on here at the moment.The vatican and churches are still trying to hid it all under the carpet.They have already paid off some of the victims with Vatican money.
    No i go my own way.I say my Rosary,and believe in the Ten Commandments.Sure that's what i was taught as a child.Although my Father believed in nothing.My Mother used to say Sisters of Charity have no Mercy and Sisters of Mercy have no Charity.
    What do you believe in,I am thinking you may be like my Father.
    Believing in nothing.Each to their own.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      smile Oh I believe alright, and strongly! I believe in the human spirit, love, children, helping wherever I can and keeping it all real. smile

      I also have a complicated belief system that even contains soul and spirit in it's form.
      It is, like all beliefs, just that.
      I do try to be guided by empirical evidence as an adjunct to proof, and will choose a lot of empirical evidence over a lot of faith. smile

 
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