So first you die..
and then what? Every religion seems to have it's own spin on the afterlife. Speaking solely from the doctrines and teachings of your particular flavor of faith, what is going to happen to you (or someone from your denomination) when you die?
I'll give my answer after a few others have given theirs.
- helenathegreatposted 15 years ago
0I consider myself sort of a Thomasine Gnostic (though I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a part of the Thomasine Church), but my spirituality is becoming more complex than that as I get older as I ascribe more and more of my beliefs to the Law of Attraction.
Neither philosophy addresses death directly, though most Gnostics agree that Jesus resides in Heaven with God. Thomasine Gnosticism focuses on the knowing (gnosis) of God through the knowing of oneself, or at least that's how I think of it. Gnosis is not to be confused with wisdom or understanding, as it is more of a combination of the two. It's like conocer (which would be gnosis) in Spanish versus saber.
This gnosis leads to Illumination, which can be seen as complete bliss, Heaven, or a number of other things. But without Illumination, I don't believe that we go to hell.
So I guess we die, and because Jesus said that God loves us we join him in Heaven. Sorry for making that so unnecessarily complicated.
Great thread! I agree with Misha on this except that we can always restart the game, or change character and even cheat: fly, walk through walls...
LOL Kenny, I did not say you can't cheat - the trick is to learn how to do this
And game restart is called suicide, and frowned upon in all (or almost all) religions... Looks like we are supposed to play our games to the very end
Another analogy I tend to muse over is of the ocean and a drop. Like when the ocean hits the rocky shore, drops separate from the body of water and for some time have the life of their own - but one way or another inevitably return to the main body of water... They have personal characters while they are separated, but not before and after... but they don't disappear, you know... they blend into...Thanks, Marisa :blush:
I don't think I deserve the credit, though. I think I read this analogy somewhere long ago - should be one of the Buddhist/Hinduist or even Pagan books, cause Christianity/Islam/Judaism seem to use different set of analogies for our after life...
Brother, i didn't say suicide. I meant my soul who is up there somewhere, decides to make me drop out of this earthly school and try again fresh. That's what I meant with restart.
You may save the school analogy, too, for your concepts. I think my soul has taken this uniform of a body to attend school here. I have to come back again and again till I graduate.
That's Hindu philosophy.
I read all what he wrote, too
When I think more about original question of this thread, I realize it cannot be satisfactory answered. Granted, we can tell how this and that religion describes what happens after, but there is a built-in flaw in this - our language. All what is there is beyond this world, and probably differs dramatically - but our language is designed to describe *only* this world.
It is like trying to explain what the ocean is to the person who lived in the mountains in the middle of a continent all his life. And his tribe lived there for the whole duration of its history... They just don't have words for that...
Or I just recalled one old Russian joke about a small remote northern tribe guy, who happened to visit a big city and tried an orange there. For the first time in his life and in the life of his tribe. He comes back to his tribe and tries to explain the taste. After several attempts he gives up and says - it's like an intercourse!
Religions face exactly this same problem in describing what happens after the death. Every one of our religions is using its own analogy to try to convey the same message - hence the difference in religions... Simple, yeah? But I think this is how things are...- helenathegreatposted 15 years ago0
Misunderstanding cleared
I like your school analogy, brother, and tend to think along those lines, too... That our Lord learns himself playing with us... This gives the purpose to one's life - a real purposeAnd meet you up there, after school, where we can be real brothers. Or even sisters, who knows?
Or may be sister and brother... :puzzled:
Where is Charlotte? She promised to post her own views, too...Actually, more like a guess (or wishful thinking).
A hypothesis must be testable and falsifiable, and the existence of an afterlife is currently neither.
Thanks Mark
I had to look it up, though - I'm not that fluent in Greek philosophers' teachings Guess this is one more area to explore for me - before I die
And, yeah, Charlotte,
Looks like most of us are pretty much on the same page. I don't think anybody is seriously expecting his body not to hit the dirt Too much evidence suggesting otherwise
LOL can't you move this to private email exchange guys? It seems to be more convenient this way
I have a sin of dancing on the remnants of dead threads myself, but this one seemed to be pretty alive just before you stepped inLOL is right. Heavy stuff that goes over my little head!
Jewel,
Are you talking about this thread? :horror:But it could go on to a better place and live with all the other dead threads.
Great, atleast we know there is life after death for threads!
That's a relief. Because even one belief can create a god or an afterlife!
It will atleast create a religion
- emmabalmerposted 15 years ago0
Ha, ha..... no "Emma Balmer" is not my real name, but I do use it as an alias in shooting competitions. I think that most people that walk through the door requesting my services are not actively religious. In fact, I think that many of them don't really know if there's an afterlife or not. I never tell them about my personal experience or try to force my beliefs on them. That's not my job. I think that most of my clients would rather be safe than sorry. With that frame of mind, they often choose to recite Biblical scriptures or even find a minister they don't even know to officiate for the funeral service. Even if they aren't religious, they still recite the verses because they think it's better to be safe than sorry. Thanks for the comment
Emma, I'm glad you chimed in
Your experience makes this discussion much more - umm - comprehensive.
Welcome to HubPages, by the wayYes, Misha, right. You know much compassion and love those children evoke in almost everybody. I think they have come here
1. To spread some love, and make people feel teh capacity to love, and
2. Like you said, learn something advanced through giving themselves a handicap.
You know, I play comp games without cheating and my little fellow asks me why, as cheating is easier.Kathryn,
Emma has a hub about this http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-Do-You-Want … -MorticianThanks guys! Just to let you know, I am writing about my experience in more detail, but it will take awhile to compile all of those thoughts and emotions. It gets pretty overwhelming when I try to put it all into words. Slow but sure, I am getting it out. It's difficult to type through watery eyes, but it would be selfish of me just to keep it to myself when so many people are wondering whether or not there really is a life after life. Like LdsNanna has mentioned, not everyone will take me seriously, but whether they take me seriously or not does NOT change that fact that it happened to me. I'm just going to keep everything as accurate and honest as possible.
Oh, by the way, the spiritual thing goes much farther than just my comatose experience. I believe I have been given some sort of gift. It's like a door in my brain has opened or something. More on that later.... I don't want to overwhelm anyone and make everyone think I'm nuts It's all still confusing and "new" to me.
Hey Kenny,
I've always felt that life was a school, but I didn't know that was a Hindu concept! Can you recommend any good overviews on Hindu philosophy written in English?
My sense of it is that when we die, nothing changes at all, except the limits on our perceptions. Our perceptions are limited (and I believe that's by choice) while we are having an incarnate experience.
One limit on our perceptions is the experience of linear time. Eternity isn't what we normally envision - one moment after another without end - so much as it is every moment for all time happening at once.
When we are perceiving from an incarnate position, we experience all incarnations at once, as well as non-carnation (if there is such a word). It's kinda intense ...
I believe that becoming incarnate is analogous to focusing closely on one small corner of an intricate work of art, for the purpose of experiencing it fully.
What I believe may, of course, not be actually True (if there is such a thing as absolute Truth - now there's a thread on its own). However, believing this leads me to actions and relationships which enrich my current life, so I choose to keep believing it.
I am always open to "better" beliefs, as measured by their impact on my quality of life.
I think I am probably best described as an "agnostic", since I am not convinced there is any objective reality, or even that "I" actually "exist", in the way we commonly use those terms.
I act as though reality is real, though, and I exist. I'm humoring everyone else until I figure out what's going on.
Jenny
Oops, sorry, that is a derivation of one of the Hindu concepts. I used the word 'school' to mean spiritual education. The soul has to incarnate gain and again till it's evolved enough to embrace Godhead. Apologies.
Yes that sacred texts link is a good one.
LOL Time to time I'm still ranting, too
But yeah, overall I try to be positive and just let go negative things
Thanks for the url, I'll give it some serious attentionThat's the best post I've seen yet.
I don't own any underwear in the currentlife
LOL -They will see my bits.
I have a feeling I will be worrying about the bus more than that though - RFoxposted 15 years ago0
Well, I am a Buddhist so letting go of attachment to material possessions is a good thing. Your non-attachment to underwear makes you highly advanced Mark. Lol
As for what happens when you die....well, we usually focus more on what you do when you're alive....even though there are lengthy discourses on death and the wheel of life.
We believe in rebirth not reincarnation. There is no soul which transits from life to life, however everything comes from something. General law of the universe according to physics so a sentient being is reborn after death into one of the many levels of existence. They are not the same being nor are they an entirely new being. (Did I mention Buddhist philosophy gets complicated and difficult for someone like me to explain?)
Karma is what drives the universe and as such we have a great measure of control over our present and future existences. However, as a Buddhist I strive for Nirvana, which is not existence or non-existence but something completely outside of life as we know it.
Now to complicate matters even further, even though I strive for enlightenment and Nirvana, I have also taken my Bodhisattva vows which means I will continually be reborn again and again until every sentient being in the universe achieves enlightenment. (That's what the Dalai Lama is all about.) This is because I do not wish to achieve enlightenment unless everyone else gets to as well. I also strive to help others with this.
Note: You do not have to be a Buddhist to achieve enlightenment it is a purely personal quest.
So death holds no fear as it is simply a transitory state. It is the same with Heaven, Hell, Animals, Humans, Gods etc.....they are all transitory states of being in the wheel of existence. Some last longer according to linear time concepts but time as we know it really is a human invention.
And for Misha: A long time back in this thread you couldn't remember where you had read the drop in the ocean philosophy. I have seen that analogy used in Vedanta and I believe that is where it comes from. I will try to answer your question here Thom.
As I said before we Buddhists aren't really focused on the "afterlife". The Wheel of Life is discussed merely to show that everything is impermanent. Life leads to death, death leads to life. This meditation on impermanence allows us to actually focus on the present moment, which is the most important.
We meditate on death to free us from the attachments of daily life. The less attachments we have the more loving kindness and genuine compassion we can cultivate towards others. And we don't try to be good people to achieve some kind of heaven. Being good because you're afraid of going to hell is not truly altruistic. Say you have two people who give money to a charity. One does so because they want the benefits of a good deed: a good name in the community, the fast track to 'heaven' etc. Then the second person gives to charity because they truly feel compassion for those who have less than them and want to help make others lives easier. The first persons' intention came from selfish motivation. The second persons' intention was truly altruistic. Even though the end result was the same, the karma generated (which determines what happens to you in your life and future lives) is very different. In Buddhism it's all about your intention.
Being completely selfless and thinking of others first is not something human beings are usually good at which is why as Buddhists we meditate on death and dying to remove our personal egos.
As for 'evidence' of our philosophy towards rebirth and karma. Well, the law of physics states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If this theory holds true then everything we do in every minute of the day has far reaching and sometimes unseen consequences. This is karma (a very simplistic explanation!) You can produce negative, positive or neutral karma and it is this that propels you through this life and creates your rebirth.
The other 'evidence' for rebirth does require some faith. People in the world do remember their past lives. The present Dalai Lama is the fourteenth rebirth of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Avalokiteshvara. Before a Dalai Lama dies they go into deep meditation and pronounce what signs will be around when they are reborn and in which geographical region among other information. When a child is suspected to be the rebirth of the Dalai Lama they are taken to a room with all manner of Holy possessions (such as prayer beads) and are asked to pick out which objects they like the most. If they are the next Dalai Lama they always choose all the objects which previously belonged to them. Sounds too mystical for some but that's what happens. The child remembers their particular objects from the past life.
There are documented cases of children who have begun to speak a foreign language fluently that they were never taught. There are also the music prodigy's who can play Beethoven at age four but were never taught. To a Buddhist the reason people can do this is because they are remembering things they were taught in past lives. The karma surrounding those things was so strong that it carried over into the next life.
Of course, as I said, this still takes faith to believe.
Hope this explanation helps somewhat.
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