My beliefs are personal and individual to me. However, I was thinking, if I was not to have my belief system, how would I feel? I can tell you, I feel utter terror. Comments?
Yes - I agree. Fear is the only thing driving most religious beliefs. You nailed it right there.
So what is it you have decided to believe to alleviate the terror ? And what is it that terrifies you so?
If you don't mind me asking...........
That my life has a deeper, meaningful purpose. That this life is a spiritual development exercise and that I have to learn my personal lessons of life. That my soul will continue when my body has expired. With this, I have no fear of death.
So - you are scared of death.
And you have decided that to negate that fear, you will pretend that your worthless life has some "deeper, meaningful purpose" which clearly it does not. If you cannot do anything"deeper and meaningful" with your real life - what makes you think you will be able to after you die?
OK - sounds perfectly plausible. Your life is worthless and without meaning, so you will have meaning to it after you are dead? Wonderful.
And now you discover that this is a ridiculous notion and want to make sure the atheists are frightened as well? Hate to break it to you - but this atheist is not "terrified".
Scared of death? No, just its processes and challenges it presents, but then life does present many of these and, I guess, many of these can be pretty frightening also.
My intention was not to frighten anyone (whatever denomination they are), just to find out how others feel is enough for me. I am glad you are not 'terrified'. My perception of death through my belief system, doesn't 'terrify' me either. Whether this is 'truth' or not, doesn't really matter... I live my life today to be kind and be happy.
I am happy and glad you aren't 'terrified' x
So, what is it that you are "terrified" of then? Quite honestly - your opening post was offensive:
What you are basically saying is "How do those poor atheists cope?"
Now you tell us that you deal with terminally ill patients and "help them to die"
How do you help the atheists to die? Convert them on their death bed?
Still you have not really answered the question I asked. You were pretty adamant that without your beliefs (whatever they may be) you would be terrified.
Now you have answered ""that my life has a deeper meaningful purpose and that your soul lives on after you die."
What is this "deeper, meaningful purpose" that apparently only manifests itself after you are dead? And why do you need this crutch to get through life without being "terrified"?
ooops. It was not fear to drive me to God when I was an atheist. It was His love.
Excellent point as usual. It is truly shock and awe to realize how little we know. It takes a true individual mind to admit to not knowing what happens after death. You and I know, the believer mind gives in to the the rebirth through heaven. A driving motivation to believe.
I hope, when I die, I feel that I have lived a fulfilled life in which I've helped a lot of people and made people happy and smile.
I don't think it would be terrible, it'll probably be like the world was before we were born. How did you feel before your birth?
I'm guessing you are not really a dying atheist? So then how would you know their thoughts? Funny, most believers come across their greatest doubts at the brink of death. Fear is a given at death and only rarely does one not fear it. They don't call it the great journey for nothing.
I'm not an athiest, just wanted to get into the mindset to have insight. I help people to live and die. I feel this is my purpose. I know that athiests get quite aggressive on this issue. I don't know why... I don't force my views on them - I barely mention them - but they seem to 'shout down' the debate. It is a shame x
This whole topic is asking what dying atheists would think. I think they have a right to voice their opinion. This thread is turning into another attack on atheists, they have every right to fight back.
Because your belief system is based on a government god that guarantess bliss after death. People get irritated at the bibles ignorant assumptions when it explains nothing. It is also contradiction to having an individual mind. If the bible didn't give you something to believe, you might have to figure it out through individual thought. Couldn't have that.
Actually, I dont believe in a 'governmental god' or any other of your accusations. I believe in love, kindness and happyness. I dont go to church. I am not part of any 'religious' organisation. I just have my own way. *respect* x
Maybe leave the word atheist out of it. Your call. Fear of death relates to everyone regardless of belief.
It's a wonderful service to help people at the time of death. An amazing experience.
Well, I have termed this title, after a Muse track 'Death of an Atheist', it inspired me and it might inspire others, whether or not 'Atheist'.
You said: 'It's a wonderful service to help people at the time of death. An amazing experience -
It is an amazing experience to help them to live too! x
Yea you are right, lady. There will be more atheists in the heaven as one would presume.
Trust me - if it is full of people like you, that is not going to happen.
Tell me about the extra oxygen again...
No - I would rather live in hell than spend eternity with you guys. Can you imagine?
"See - we were right after all."...................... *shudders *
LOLOLOLOL OMG, EvoGuy, that's hilarious. I don't know if that's a real photo of you in your profile, but I totally just envisioned that guy shuddering. (And I think his beard wiggled!)Hilarious. Thanks for the laugh so early in the morning!!!
My pleasure. Um - that is Charles Darwin in his later years.
You do know who that is......... right?
I've heard of Darwin, I just never saw a photo. He's kind of cute
Wasn't that the dude they drew into a monkey for having an indivdual mind?
That would be the one.
The ignorance of the biblical believer today protecting faith by rejecting individual thought and ideas. I can only imagine what Darwin went through for having an individual mind in his days. Definately one of the strongest individual minds to date.
Atheists are not a whole with only 1 mind. So how would you know What atheists think.? We are individuals. Some people fear death more than others, despite their beliefs. Being a believer is not a guarantee that you'll not be afraid.
I am an atheist and don't fear death. I don't believe in any God, but I believe in myself.
Although as you say, you are not a whole with only one mind, if you are an Atheist, then you are part of a group of people who share a common belief. So the question is perfectly valid.
You share a common belief, so, what do people in the belief group of which you are a member, think when they die. What do you/they think happens? Please tell.
Being an atheist is not like being a believer. Atheists have a lot more ways to approach death. But nor the atheists nor the believers as individuals have the same way of approaching death.
But if you want my opinion, atheist fear death less,as they don't have to be judge by nobody when they die.
And if you're wrong?
You make that absolute statement Tan like you know that for sure. Do you really?
And if you do, how do you come to "know" that?
You might adopt that "belief" but to know for sure you would have had to have searched the entire universe and beyond and then not having found Him might draw that conclusion.
Nothing in science disproves there is a God is my point here so please to all the evolutionists who argue about it (evolution) "proving" that you need to have an open mind to the FACT that it (evolution) has not. So your points as to "oh so because it hasn't you believe he does.", is mute. The real question becomes where your proof lies that He doesn't. As you are the ones who assert He does not.
We as believers show our proof and you ignore it as you do not believe our evidence. Thats fine. You do do not adopt that belief, ok. But where is the proof or evidence you bring to support your beliefs?
You can say, "well the Bible is wrong, and a fairy tale". Does that support your belief then?
You say, "well we believe the universe, the earth, and man evolved from a random event happening so m any millions of years ago." Does this support your belief that God does not exist?
And if so, how?
How do you know that your conclusions drawn from evolutionary theories are correct if science itself cannot conclusively draw that conclusion?
You study what these men write in scientific journals and books and say, you believe them. Ok. But how does that support your disbelief in God? If even the men who have written these books and journals, studied these processes and performed their experiments cannot and do not assert what you do?
Have you Tantrum been able to fill in all the holes to their theories to assert what you do? can you explain where the first life cell came from? How it came to be a LIVING cell other than a being giving it life? Is there any evidence in the fossil record of man evolving in the way they claim and not that a being created him? Have you found the missing link? Has science?
Yes, science is so right on they even believed at one time they had! Until it was shown to be a fossilized skeleton of a lemur. lol So you have no proof, no real proof to justify your belief yet alone to make such an absolute claim.
And this all regardless of the point that you assert we as believers cannot "prove" the existence of God. Our beliefs are neither here nor there when concerning whether YOU believe or not. You can adopt whatever belief you want to. As a belief in God is a personal choice just as much as a non-belief in Him is.
So the atheist, they have adopted the belief based not on any facts but rather a personal choice just as with the believer. You look at evolution and say " I believe this" We look at creation and the Bible and say "I believe this". So which one is really correct or true?
You say, we have nobody to judge us.
You base your absolute statement on your personal choice belief no really "knowing" that absolute is correct and that is where your problem lies, as you do not "know" you are right in that belief. So on the day you die, if you are proven wrong, what then?
You stand there accused being judged by this one you chose to believe away, and now realize you were wrong. What is your defense? You have been given a pardon by Him in this life, and yet you rejected it. So what then?
These are the questions atheists need to ask themselves. It's not done out of fear as some believe. Rather these questions are asked out of reason and responsibility. Taking responsibility for ones actions on earth which were against God, His laws, His righteousness, His Word.
We as believers do not consider ourselves to be better than anyone else in our belief of this. Everyone on the planet is guilty of sin and deserves that judgement. We as believers rather consider ourselves just better off spiritually as we have accepted that pardon. Knowing that we as people are not worthy of it, but that God being gracious and forgiving offered it.
We are humbled to accept it and agreeable that we NEEDED it.
Atheists are not a humble group of people. Rather they are prideful in that, they have chosen to erase God from their lives as they do not believe they NEED Him. Why believe in a God you do not need right? And you said it here "atheist fear death less,as they don't have to be judge by nobody when they die."
What you were really saying is atheist fear GOD less as they do not have to be judged by Him when they die. They have no NEED for Him then since they are above being accountable to anyone other than, themselves.
So - you are so skeered - you are going with it just in case?
And oh - yeah - humble. First word I think of when you are shouting the WORD.
Assumptions are always humble when they are absolute truth from the government god book of belief. It takes faith.
So you might be asking, "Do believers fear God?" We fear Him, yes. But not as in the terror type of fear. All children have a certain amount "fear" of their parents when they know they have done something wrong.
But this is also true.. When we offer our children a "pardon" for breaking the rules, they are over joyed and accept it of course. no child likes being grounded, punished etc.
we may offer a pardon of sorts to them when we believe they are repentant. In other words when we know they understand what they did was wrong, (You in your disbelief do not believe you are wrong or what you have done is) ask for forgiveness (You have not asked as you do not believe in Him to ask) and too when we believe they will not commit the act again and again.(You go on day after day committing the same sins and storing them up)
God offers His pardon to you however regardless of the situation or the person you are but it is offered only through belief and acceptance of Christ as it was His blood which was given in sacrifice for that pardon to exist in the first place.
We as believers know we NEED God. We know we are wrong and have done wrong. That is the difference here Mark between my choice to believe and your choice not to.
You choose to believe the way you do out of pride. Your ego in thinking you are good without applying the rules/laws God set. You choose to erase him thus you conclude that if you believe him away He does not exist and you are free from having to adhere to any of His rules or laws in this case that he set. So in that, you do not NEED him. Yet alone love or respect Him.
It is not though whether I believe out of fear or not. I do not believe out of fear as I have a relationship with my father in Heaven and know that He has given me that pardon freely and lovingly through His grace. I believe in Him as I have chosen to accept what the Word says about Him. I believe as I feel Him in my heart and soul, every fiber of my being. This is my personal choice. As your disbelief is.
I do not fear God, I love Him. I know I am set free. There is no fear when you have done nothing wrong. In Gods eyes, as He sees me, I am blameless before Him.
This is not pride or ego, it is truth. Gods truth. As He states it in His word.
The atheist however is not free from that judgement or punishment Mark. It is rather, YOU who should fear Him Mark. Not that you or anyone else for that matter does not have the choice of taking that pardon.
Its like this: Anyone can say, "well I don't believe that murder is a crime". This sounds ridiculous but follow me for a minute. There are those that kill and do not believe they are guilty of murder since they kill out of a belief that they are justified in that killing. The law however sees it differently and regardless of the fact that the one who committed the act truly believes he was right in doing so, the law remains what it is and the person when caught goes to prison and may even be put to death this of course is according to how the judge tries the case and sets the punishment.
Now lets say the judge sees fit to offer the guilty one in this case a pardon. He sees the person as being justified by a certain set of circumstances in the case and releases them.
The judge then has given the justification according to the circumstance which did justify the guilty ones actions.
God is the same. It is His laws, He is the law, jury, and judge. And as such sets the punishment but then being loving, forgiving and full of grace, He has offered a pardon through Jesus. (Jesus would be that "set of circumstances" I wrote about earlier above)
You as an unbeliever are guilty of breaking His laws. They were written for you to understand and obey you are not found innocent because you are a loving dad which I believe you to be or that you are considered to be a "good person" here on earth. You are not "justified" in those things as is nobody else for that matter either!
Your reason for justification for your sin is that you do not believe in God. So there is no judge for you to set a punishment or give a pardon. But regardless of your strong belief Mark, He is there, gave your pardon if you are willing to accept it, and if not, will judge and will punish. Jesus is the only "mitigating circumstance" Mark for you or any unbeliever for that matter to receive that pardon. If you choose to believe Him away, you are then believing that pardon away as it (the pardon) does not exist without Him.
There is then: no excuse, no witnesses to call, no evidence you will provide to excuse you. None of your "scientific jargon" will be enough to convince God you are blameless. None of your "good works" can save you either.
And this is not only true for you and other nonbelievers, but Christians as well!
It is not by "good works" we are saved. It is by the grace of God and belief in His Son who is the manifestation of that pardon from sin.
First of all. Im'm not for the evolution theory either.
I can't care less where do we come from, or where are we going.
I've said millions of times I'm a bloody selfish atheist.
A problem with that ?
I enjoy life. As I don't have to fear any God in the process.
I'm a very happy person, who at the moment have time to come into this forum to get a laugh or someknowledge, that will never come from you. I'm sorry to say
You see it too, it's simply irrational. A believer in no absolute truths clams to know an absolute truth NO GOD. it’s lunacy
Yes, no bible god. Your belief book is pretty ridiculous. 1 mind, 1 belief. Are you in the military?
"No Bible God" another abosulte it means nothing coming from you, but don't let that stop you from borrowing logic from us Christians. Marine
Your belief book defines a lot of things that contradict each other. You contradict a logical mind with your 1 system belief of faith.
What is logic? How do you know you have it? Where did it come?from
It came from an individual mind. Something you have not discovered. Your belief book doesn't teach how to have an individual mind.
Whose individual mind is really individual?
Are they individual if they think like you? or does that refute the point?
According to your logic no two people can have common ground or they will lose their individuality?
How can anything be solved this way?
The simple fact is you can only be individual if there is something to be an individual of?
So I am an individual in the way I disagree with your individuality.
You still have not shown your basis for your logic.
Because you cannot account for it. Again I ask what is your logic? Where did it come from?
Contradictions contradict logic. A grouped/taught belief is a contradiction to forming individual belief. Sounds logical to me.
I debate everything I read and hear until I find my individual belief on the subject. Individual belief should be found looking at every side. Individual belief isn't found through fear and threats like the bibles grouped belief. I believe the follower as yourself is more accepting to what you read with minimal debate and logic. I believe you fill in the gaps of logic with interpretation through faith, contradictory to logic.
You say nothing can be solved. The world you are in was founded by individuals/leaders, not the follower mind. Followers of a grouped belief contradict a leaders mind. The followers are just the sheep. It was your free will to become the sheep.
There is common ground when individuals believe in equality rather than a favored belief system. There is also common ground when individuals admit to what they don't know. This inspires ideas in the evolution of thought. There is no evolution of belief or thought in your belief book. Your minds belief is limited to a single book. A contradiction to an individual mind.
Wrong again, keep trying though. You're almost there.
A sheep trained response. Bahhhhh Keep the faith. Bible study at 10:00 am. Get some rest. Study your taught belief.
Marine, it was my free will to become a "sheep." However, that does not ALWAYS imply that I accept what I read "with minimal debate and logic."
Like you, I believe in equality. I often admit what I don't know. I am looking for "evolution of thought." That is why I look though these forums. I am willing to listen, to learn, and to adjust my beliefs if necessary.
Equality is not a separatist/favored belief system as the bible. I agree, everyone in a follower mindset maintains the ability to individualize when they remain open to debate.
Spiderpam is a "brilliant" example of a closed sheep mind. She refuses individual ideas and thought to protect her faith. A trained faith. She is a perfect example that a mind may/can never individualize when they attack individual thinking.
Again you have no basis for such thinking. Thought is immaterial. You cannot pin it down just to serve your own ideal. It's for all to use as they will For you say I have none, because you don’t agree is the ultimate contradiction. Why don't you realize that?
With all due respect, what are you talking about?
"You have no basis for such thinking." What thinking are you refering to? In the post that you quoted, she was expressing an opinion. Opinions are based ON our thinking.
"Thought is immaterial." Are you for real with this? All words are thought. How are you a writer if you think thought is immaterial? That doesn't make any sense.
"You cannot pin it down just to serve your own ideal." WHAT?! Pin what down?
"It's for all to use as they will." What is "it?" Thought? Then your sentence backs up everything that Tantrum and Evo and Marine are saying - thoughts ARE for all to use at their own descretion. They are our own personal thoughts. They are ours to own - we get to do with them whatever we want. Share them, debate them, throw them out.
Pam, I beg you, stop fighting. Just stop.
No they are saying I cannot use my individual thought to be Christian without giving that up, they no basis to draw such conclusion. If you don't understand imagine how they feel. They're claim an absolute without holding absolute knowledge that a HUGE contradiction.
I used logic to put it together. You are a trained sheep. I have read your book of belief. You are the one that doesn't have self awareness of your trained belief through emotions. You believe individual thinking is the devil.
Most likely, you also believe "evolution" is the devil. Correct?
What logic? How can you say I cannot use my individual thought to be Christian, you can’t without claiming absolute knowledge. And believe or not you don’t know everything and even what you think you do know is subjective, because you have no foundation, please don’t become a contractor. I think Darwinism is a lie and so far no evolutionist can prove me wrong, I've trying to get answers to no avail.
I know nothing in absolutes.
You are the one with absolute belief through faith and interpretation from your taught grouped belief that is a contradiction to an individual mind. Individual belief is learned and debated, not taught and trained.
If you know nothing absolutes, you can't absolutely say Christians are the void of individual thought, it's your subjective opinion. And it doesn't hold water. In order words blah blah blah.
And to quote you blah is ignorance and ignorance is bliss. so enjoy
It is a fact. Doesn't have to be an absolute to be a fact.
Your grouped trained belief contradicts having an individual mind to learn/find individual belief. That is a logical fact. Prove it wrong with faith and interpretation of your absoltely trained belief.
That is just fear. No worries - just imagine god is sceered too. That way when the oxygen goes back to normal when jeebus comes back, you will live to be 800 years old.
That is how it werks- right?
I guess my feelings would depend on the actual situation. Maybe I'm shot to death by a gang, maybe I die in a hospital, die from an overdose...
I can only speculate in what I would think. If I'm close to death in a peaceful area I suspect would think of all my ex-girlfriends, my dog, family etc... good things and bad things.
I would certainly not pray to some type of god and feel utter terror.
The thoughts of a Dying atheist?
I've never been in the mind of an Atheist but I don't think they believe in heaven or hell. One thing I do know though is they will end up in either one of them.
My mother was not an atheist per se but was very skeptical when it came to religion. She passed peacefully (or at leat it looked that way to my sisters who were with her in the hospital) at the age of 89.
But about 18 months later I did see her in my dream state. She looked strong, younger--about 45--and in a setting that looked like the Montana log ranch house where I grew up, she was being hassled by a group of young men. She was fully clothed but had backed up against her old bed and was kicking at them with her cowboy boots. After I thumped a couple and ran off the rest, I looked at her and asked,
"Mom, you do know you died, don't you?"
Her response? In utter bemusement, she wondered, "Can it be true?"
Moral of the story: Who says you can't take it with you? If it's spiritual confusion, it would appear that you most certainly can.
An atheist would think no more or less than anyone else when dying, I'm more interested in what the atheist would be thinking when he met God!
And why on earth would that be of interest to you?
Oh - you mean - you are right and there is a god that needs to be worshipped?
Do you think he punishes the atheists?
Does he burn them forever in hell fire?
Daddy, daddy - will I really burn for eternity if I do not believe?
Did your daddy love you in a special way until you believed as well?
That would be a behavior popular with atheists.
You know you really are an unpleasant individual Evo, you snear, you insult and you use innuendo to try and silence people who you cannot answer, in fact you manipulate, intimidate and deceive, all elements of witchcraft... are you really a Satanist?
I just want to know what you will say to God when you meet Him?
if there is a god out there...fuck him. he sits and watches inocent children get BOMBED! that's no god of mine.
After this last two years of financial disaster visited upon this country and it's people at the hands of uncaring, thoughtless, "me, me, me" arseholes who can only think of a quick way to make a buck and to hell with everyone else my dying thought would be.
I'm glad I don't have to go through this special hell again!
An atheist was walking through the woods.
'What majestic trees'!
'What powerful rivers'!
'What beautiful animals'!
He said to himself.
As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him.
He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards him.
He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing in on him.
He looked over his shoulder again, & the bear was even closer. He tripped & fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw & raising his right paw to strike him.
At that instant the Atheist cried out, 'Oh my God!'
The bear froze.
The forest was silent.
As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky!
'You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist, and even credit creation to cosmic accident.' 'Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?'
The atheist looked directly into the light, 'It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian?'
'Very well,' said the voice.
The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:
'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.
most people would pray when dying, but an atheist would not get comfort from that would they........
i heard their is no atheist on a battlefield, wonder if that is true.....
Condescending garbage I suspect. After years and years of "god" being shoved into your brain by the sheeple, probably just an involuntary reaction to swear don't you think?
Get shot "Oh G**" or "Oh F***" No real difference - just an expression. Saying it won't make it come true. So - don't you worry - if you believe - you are still wrong and will not be living forever.
Are any generalizations true? What do you think? It is a good question though since a lot of atheist despise a grouped belief system. The system of unbelief could somtimes be considered a grouped belief unless the thoughts have individual balance.
That is not true.
Prayer and religious beliefs are fine.
Patriotism and political ideology is fine.
Philosophical debate and intellectual discussion is fine,but I promise you all of them disappear when the first shot is fired.
The only thing that matters at that point is the man on your left and the man on your right.
Of Course afterwards all magically reappear.
excuse me, that is not very polite is it.......... I have sat with lot's of elderly people when they are dying, and some just want the comfort of another next to them. I don't know how you know what i will be doing, living forever or otherwise, since you are not god.... you are very rude
Oh - should I preface it with "I believe" then?
Why is it rude for me to say you will not live forever?
I don't understand how that is rude.
What is common with dying people is the hope there is something else other than the box and being worm fodder. Something akin to a godlike figure would be nice, wouldn't it! No guarantees though.
you know i watched my mum die last year, she was helpless, machines keeping her alive for days. Her mind was brilliant, she could buy and sell me and was loved by million. She had a strong belief, that this life is not all that there is, so do i, god did not want all this suffering and ultimate death, i really believe he cares. I know lot's don't and that is up to them, but my talking to my creator every day helps me.... so that is fine, if you don't believe that is fine too i suppose.
What difference does it make to you if there are people who do not believe what you believe?
God did not want death? Then He should have changed the laws of nature. You die. we all die.
Believing that you will live for ever is not going to make it come true.
God cannot change the nature of course. If He will change, we want, then sin will change the heaven to hell. Then why bother to have a heaven?
Why do you hide your identity? Why do you fear, friend?
I fear the constant barrage of attacks from believers upset that I do not accept their irrational beliefs through my profile page that necessitated me creating a new identity.
Now - this is not fear in the sense that YOU are scared of dying, this is more fear in the sense of "it is incredibly annoying and I need to keep my personal and work stuff away from the verbal attacks of religious people who are offended that I do not believe the same crap they do."
If he created all, why create sin? Are we an experiment?
I'm neither for nor against, the initial question was asked to insight ill will. Call me psychic!
The thing there is an assumption that an atheist will die in a terrible way because of a disbelief in god.
I know of people who had strong spiritual beliefs, or thought they did. But at the hour of death there can be such fear. That's what I was passing. And there is the hope there is something else, but a fear there will not be something on the other side.
I personally am sure of a continuum of consciousness, but it's not about a blind faith due to my experiences.
If you really look at it, we learn a great deal from suffering - every negative action has a positive re-action. I feel we learn a great deal from experiences... for example, how do we know happiness, if we don't go through unhappiness. How can we truly live, unless we are touched by death? How can we truly empathise, unless we have felt the suffering/exhaltation of others? I feel this is God's way. Experiences make us who we are today. Everything is an evolving, changing thing, whether it is personal mental development or spiritual.
I have been close, many times. Never feared it, usually too stupid to even realize what is happening. I am not an atheist, but I am certain they fear death as most do. It is a normal reaction, even animals fear it, thus the fight or flight response. We have it also.
i don't know whether this is relevant, but it just came to mind. Remember, for those who believe in Jesus, the sinner next to him,,,,,, when he was dying sinner for want of a better expression. He did not judge him he said, you will be with me. A spiritual person would show kindness to anyone when they were dying of course, atheist or not....
~Then, maybe, there is no 'utter terror' for the dying athiest, then? Cos when it happens, there is calm, light and love for all?! That is a lovely thought. The fear, therefore, is for the living, eh? Maybe an emotion to make us live to the full, perhaps?
I don't know what happens after death and since surviving cancer I don't fear it. I have no idea what my last thoughts will be.
I help people to live and help them to die. These are cancer patients. In my experience of this, cancer patients have a new awakening and a realisation of what it is to live.
Hands up to you, my friend, I know your experience has made you a wiser person. x
i will be writing a hub about this. "athiest" is a label. can someone who doesn't believe in the CHRISTIAN GOD be spiritual?
<--- my mad face
p.s. i think the title of this thread is offensive. what are the dying thoughts of ANYONE?!
Let them be !
. As Jesus said:
Forgive them Father because they don't know what they're doing
i expect anyone - tinker, tailor, soldier, spy, priest, nun, prophet, WHOEVER - knows fear and maybe even pain during their dying moments. what, do Christians feel no pain and ascend into holy blue light surrounded by bluebirds and butterflies, while their "heathen" counterparts are dragged kicking and screaming into eternal hellfire going "oh god if i only BELIEVED!"?
He was just pissed off because he got nailed !!
Awww, I didn't mean to be offensive .. labels can be demeaning, I guess. FYI.. Im not Christian... I just try to be kind and happy x
I agree, though I'm not really offended, just getting tired of the games.
Atheists aggressively talk about their belief of no god, just as Christians aggressively talk about their belief of a god. While you may not always think you are being particularly forward with your belief, others find the sheer illogical ideals insulting.
The fear of death is something that everyone faces at some point. Some people turn to God, others face the fear, and others seek comfort.
When it comes to belief, sometimes it fails at the end, sometimes it doesn't. When it comes to the end, I'm an atheist, and I don't know how I will feel.
My mind as it stands though, sees the end as just that, the end. I do not feel any need to form some attachment to an afterlife.
Good points. I particularly like your first point. What you are emphasing here, is that the whole idea inspires great emotion to all. I'm unsure whether people find the way they see their ideals as 'illogical'. We all live in our own reality and that reality is very logical to the individual. Personally, I believe in respect to all, whatever nationality, religion or creed. I TRY not to judge. I TRY to be aware of everyones perceptional realities. When I feel my 'biases' rising, I consciously take a step back and rationalise them in a logical way (or what I think is logical, anyway!). I believe in empowerment and respect. If I find myself moving away from this core belief, I check myself and put myself back in line.
*Respect and Love to All*
Back to thoughts of death, however, no one really knows how they will feel, until the end. No one will know if there is more, until the end. Until then, *Just be kind and be happy*
Right, I have given this some serious living thought. Here are some possible thoughts of a dying Athiest:-
"I knew I should have given up smoking, could have had a couple more years"
"Oh well, I had a good innings."
"Fuck... I should have checked the batteries in the smoke alarm."
"I have been hooked up on this damn machine for ages, I cant wait for the beeping to stop."
"Wheres my only son whilst I am laying on my deathbed? I'm glad I remortgaged my house in '07 for that month in vegas, the fast car, and the hookers."
"Shit I should have gone to church more."
"Where are the cabs around here? bugger it I'll drive" (after 10 shots of liquor)
I really like this! Great bit of thinking here babes! xx
I really like this one, too. I kinda knew it was Ryan's without even looking.
I wonder if anyone really knows it when it's the very end. I think it might be people die thinking they're still gonna live for a little while. It might that moment finally catches us all by surprise. We don't think anything--we don't have time. Time has suddenly run right out, and the clock has stopped.
Are you an atheist? Then you don't know what they will think when they are dying. Are you here just to make trouble?
Trouble? Your very name implies same, but do I fault your presence here?
Well, you have said time and time again that those who don't believe don't belong in the religious forum and can't discuss religion. So why should you discuss what a dying atheist will think on death?
Please don't lower yourself with personal attacks.
Are you a prophet to protect believers from the devil?
Well, I never said I didn't believe in an after life. All I've been saying is I don't believe in God ar any god for that matter.
You don't have any point there.
As I said before ,we are all individual selfs atthe death hour. Different circumnstances, different approaches.
GIVE UP! you can only reply to my posts with 'BLABLA '
It's so funny thanks for the laughs. Appreciated it !
Correction I can only reply to you and other "atheist" with blah, that all you speak. Who cares what you say, but you care what I say. Why? There in lies the rub.
I don't care what you say. I think it's funnny .that's all. You're not that important, you know.
Oh I just notice...
If you don't care what I say, Why you're always replying to my posts then ? so funny !
Don't you have anything to say this time, my dear friend ?
No - we are ridiculing what you say. Can't you tell the difference?
Jeebus would be proud..............
I have to say a big thank you though. If ever there was some on who persuaded me I made the right choice in discarding the Christian religion as meaningless garbage - it is you.
Although - why the need to attack atheists?
And more importantly - why the need to make yourself and you religion look so ridiculous by attacking accepted scientific facts?
What purpose does that serve?
"Phsssst... anyone see a M-M-Moose tiptoe through this thread?"
Which definition of God are you using for your hypothesis? If it is the classical Christian definition, i.e. omnipotent, omniscient etc, then giving such advice implies you are as capable as an omnipotent, omniscient being. That's only possible if you are an omnipotent, omniscient being yourself. As that definition asserts only one God, you are effectively claiming to be God! I tentatively believe that to be untrue
Seriously, any hypothesis you make needs to be consistent with whatever definitions you are using. If you weren't using the classical Christian definition, which definition were you using? If you were, then your comment is essentially meaningless.
Odd that you choose to question me. I was responding to some one else. She defined god, not me.
You must be a beleeber in jeebus
They are fond of the semantic attack.
Could you possibly mean this is the difference in being 'subjective' rather than 'objective'?
Well...I'd love to stay here and chat but I have to do some writing...
Coming to the original question.
I would say, a principled atheist will ask a believer nearby to pray for him!
that's the last thing i would do. I'm an atheist. What about you ? you sound like a believer.
I doubt you ever see a true atheist just these new ones with the I am my own god mentality. Frederick Nietzsche was a true atheist he had spent his entire life hating God, The Bible God denying his very existence and he really despised the bible, but he spent the last 11 years of his life insane begging his mother to read him bible verses and only words he spoke were bible verses. He died spiritually dead.
The True Atheist
Only a weak one that gives into fearing death to believe. Belief should not be drivin by fear.
you said: "Only a weak one that gives into fearing death to believe. Belief should not be driven by fear."
I believe most people become weak in death bed-- Physically and mentally. When death looms large, basic human tendency is to cling to something somehow and be alive. Hard cored principles too, I believe, may weaken, at that crucial juncture.
I agree with having faith in something on the death bed. Just not faith in an afterlife of worshiping jesus and singing bible songs.
If it's not faith in an afterlife or in a god, what faith could that be ? You're not making sense
It is impossible to know what anyone would think or say at the moment of death. One thing for certain, everyone will be alone when they die. No one can cross that threshold with you.
Even though I know Mark, (and many others), will have something sarcastic to say to this, I will say it anyway. There is only comfort in Jesus Christ at the time of death.
Edited after original posting.
A true atheist doesn't spend his life hating God. How can we hate something that doesn't exist ?
I don't hate God.
I don't hate you.
I find you very interesting and funny
But your very presence here says different. You can't be an atheist without God.
Because I don't have God, I'm an atheist!
You sound funnier each time you post.
You didn't go partying last night, didn't you ?
So - you do not even know what the word "atheist" means.
Why would anyone take you seriously?
You said "There is only comfort in Jesus Christ at the time of death."
That's for a believer of Christ. Some other personal God for some other believer.
Awww Moose to You........... Stop Spamming and find some witches to burn!!!
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing." — Mark Twain
A wise man?... speaking of lazy people that can't find the time to think for themselves or to make a research of their own.
not all of us are that way.
You're just in the mood to fight aren't you?!! LOL
Tantrum, I am interested in knowing what exactly an atheist is. I see that you put a person that doesn't believe in God (based on the original latin meanings).
Does that also imply that atheists do not believe in a creator? (or Intelligent Design)? Do all atheists ascribe to the theory of evolution? Does that also imply that atheists do not believe in an afterlife? Do the majority of atheists believe the same thing? Or is each atheist an individual?
I guess I'm asking if atheism is like a religion with basic tenements to the faith. Not that you all have meetings or whatever, but just a group of people who all don't believe in the same thing?
if you would take the trouble to read my posts, you'll get your answer.
I'm not taking the trouble to explain myself to you
I'm sorry if something I said did not come across genuine, Tantrum. I wasn't asking you to "explain" yourself, I was asking for the purpose of understanding. I truly wanted to know. I have read your posts, but the definition you gave to Pam "a person that doesn't believe in God" is pretty vague. I was asking clarifiction, because I am interested in understanding your perspective.
EvoGuy - maybe you care to elaborate on what exactly an "atheist" is?
He can't without using God, or deity God. But watch them try anyway.
An atheist is some one who does not believe in god. Simple.
Pam, if they do try, I truly hope you can read their answer(s) without bias. If they do try, I hope that you won't immediately attack their post. If they do try, and you do feel the need to respond, I hope that your response is in regards to your common ground.
I thought I would copy and paste the dictionary definition of atheist. Hope this helps!
atheist Also found in: Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia, Hutchinson 0.01 sec.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. atheist - someone who denies the existence of god
disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever - someone who refuses to believe (as in a divinity)
Adj. 1. atheist - related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings"
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2008 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.
noun nonbeliever, pagan, sceptic, disbeliever, heathen, infidel, unbeliever, freethinker, irreligionist She is an ex-nun who is now an atheist.
"An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support" [John Buchan On Being a Real Person]
"By night an atheist half believes a God" [Edward Young The Complaint: Night Thoughts]
"No one has ever died an atheist" [Plato Laws]
"There are no atheists in the foxholes" [William Thomas Cummings I Saw the Fall of the Phillipines]
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
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atheist [ˈeɪθɪɪst] N → ateo/a m/f
Collins Spanish Dictionary - Complete and Unabridged 8th Edition 2005 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1971, 1988 © HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2003, 2005
atheist [ˈeɪθiɪst] n → athÃ©e mf
Collins English/French Electronic Resource. © HarperCollins Publishers 2005
n → Atheist(in) m(f)
adj attr → atheistisch
Collins German Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged 7th Edition 2005. © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1980 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1997, 1999, 2004, 2005, 2007
atheist [ˈeɪθɪɪst] n → ateo/a
Collins Italian Dictionary 1st Edition © HarperCollins Publishers 1995
atheist → مُلحِد ateista ateist Atheist άθεος ateo ateisti athée ateist ateo 無神論者 무신론자 atheïst ateist ateista ateu атеист ateist ผู้เชื่อว่าพระเจ้าไม่มีจริง tanrı tanımaz người vô thần 无神论者
Multilingual Translator © HarperCollins Publishers 2009
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ATHEIST : A person that doesn't believe in God
Both words from latin
Hope it helps
thats what they said!
But your very presence here says different. You can't be an atheist without God.
You can't be an atheist without a religionist.
"Nonsensse" my point exactly take out God you are simply WITHOUT.
don't try to jump to a buzz word to avoid the complete negative of your position, mark. You are without nothing
There is no god. I understand that you are too ignorant to understand this, but:-
There would be no atheism without people like you shoving their garbage down other people's throats.
I would not need to say "I do not believe in god" if you did not keep saying, "there is a god"
I know - hard to grasp.
No religionists = no need for atheists. Simple.
You say "there is no God" Why do you believe that?
There is no god. Any fool can see that. Let's face it - a bunch of people like you telling me there is, is not exactly persuasive.
How about a 100% total lack of evidence in favor.?
Plus - when you understand the evolutionary process, unless"god" just threw everything together as an experiment (Which I could actually accept as making some sense if you are interested) there is no need for a god in the process.
Oh mark do you really want to bring evolution here you still can't answer the basic questions, but since you brought it up:
Where has we seen life com from non-life?
Where did the space for the universe come from?
Where did matter come from?
Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
How did matter get so perfectly organized?
Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)
Take your time.
"Which I could actually accept as making some sense if you are interested" ...really? ok
but in response to your other statements:
So your belief then is, because you look at the evolutionary process as all fact, you believe there is no need for God in the process of it?
And so, being there is no need for Him as you see it, He does not exist?
did I get the gist of your views right there?
Not in the slightest, no.
Firstly - looking at the biblical account. Makes no sense, No evidence for - therefore - after examining people who do believe - like you . Worthless garbage.
Now - question: Where do we come from. Hmmmm. Millions of facts that support evolution as happening. Evolution theory makes sense based on these measurable facts. Best answer to date.
See- first - lack of belief in god. Second - evolution proves that is a rational decision.
Next - re-examination of the bible and deeper understanding after letting go the insistent though that there is a god. Interesting - makes much, much more sense. Even warns about people like you . KEEP AWAY it says. BAD BAD people Look inside if you want to grow. Lo and behold, it is right.
Heaven is here on earth. Promises of a eternal life if I bow down? King James wrote that.
Must admit - people like you are the ones made me question it in the first place.
Thanks. But no respect due because you have not even considered what you quote ad infinitum. I understand - much much easier answer. No work for you.
A shame really.......
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! for this! I can much better understand your perspective with this breakdown.
Now I'm REALLY going to do laundry!!
Here is My View: I Believe You Act Like A Moose AW!! Therefore you must be a Moose? While I appreciate that Moose have evolved from Wolly Mammoths; I must ask you how we should treat the piles that are left on the floor after each posting that you make in the forums?
Is it best to drive carefully around them and treat the piles like a roundabout or do dung beetles pick it up later?
Really? Moose evolved from mammoths? Where is your proof?!!
Has science produced proof of this? Then why do you believe it?
They lack the evidence to provide proof of that and yet you still believe and then say you do not believe in God because of a lack of proof.
That to me illogical.
And as far as the those piles you speak of?, You are the monkey so you believe, so you get to throwing your own piles around here at everyone. nice.
AW.... I speak the truth!!! God Told Me.. I am merely telling you what HE SAID to ME. My Proof is: God Told Me!
Oh.. I'm so happy... I could hug a moose!
Thank you AW thank you.. I was enlghtened in my monkeyness!
Rejoice Sister Moose.. Rejoice.. He has made me an honest monkey!
I know it must be hard for you to believe that moose came from Wolly Mammoths () But the monkey god sees, hears and speaks no evil!
Rejoice, Rejoice in your mooseness.... But on your way out: There are still tracks across the forum floor (& a few piles) leading off to your ivory tower.
Were you going to clean then up or are you saving them for winter?
Yous said: "A true atheist doesn't spend his life hating God. How can we hate something that doesn't exist ?
I don't hate God.
I don't hate you. "
If you neither hate God and others, there is Godliness in you which is waiting for the right time to get manifested!
Something aside the above:
In some Hindu mythologies, there are demonic characters who hate God all through their lives and inflict pain to the believers. Their lives will end by God coming to the rescue of his believers and annihilating the demonic character. And you know what happens? God invariably grants them liberation, because, they have been "thinking" of God all the time! That's the mercy of God, the mythologies say!
NICE!! Sorry that I didn't ellaborate so well when I asked WTF is an atheist anyway?
@ Tantrum.... I was referring to the one who posted the quote
Pearldiver - do you mean me? If so, glad I could help. I just hope to get an answer
PS - whenever I see your screenname, I think of the line, "Don't cast your pearls before swine." And it reminds me that I shouldn't spend too much time in these forums. LOL
Yep and Yep... according to the Urban Dictionary... There are for me; Far More Enjoyable pursuits to indulge in!
after this statement I wouldn't bother to clarify my perspective on atheism. I'm sure my opinion is of no value for you . And I don't think you're really interested. Only being ironic
You can't without God, Without God you are simply WITHOUT. Admit it and move on.
I've been admiting I'm without God in all my posts, as I don't believe in him. Is that so difficult to understand ?
And why are you after me all the time? Do you want an autograph ?
Take God out of it. you are without, I know it's hard to understand your own absurdity.
I am not being sarcastic in my request, Tantrum. I truly want to know. I've never actually asked an atheist what makes them atheist before. I'm sorry if it comes across patronizing. I'm interested. Contrary to your statement, your opinion IS of value to me. Why? Because you are the most vocal, and so I want to understand where you are coming from.
The reason I reminded myself about not spending too much time on these forums, is because I have about 20 loads of laundry to do and yet I've been on these forums for over 3 hours...
Rational thought is what "makes some one atheist".
Simple really. No proof of a god. 1800 years of fighting over it and uneducated, ignorant people spreading the message?
And really - if you think about it. Born in sin. Need to accept jesus. God loves you. You will live forever - but ONLY if you believe? What nonsense.
Where does your rational thought come from? Science? The early scientist believe in God. So how can you really trust such science.
Would that be the scientists who were tortured by the church for stating scientific facts such as the position of the earth?
I'm quite sure a lot of today's scientists believe in God. The two are not mutually exclusive.
The world has come a long way in 150 years...
First of all, not all people who believe in a higher power are uneducated. Second of all, not all people who DONT believe in a higher power are rational or educated. Gross generalizations and insults only serve to incite animosity, so please stop.
I will agree with you,EvoGuy, there is no tangible proof of God. That's why it is called "faith." As I stated in another forum, I know that my beliefs come across as irrational to non-believers. I'm okay with that. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/24432?page=6#post445300
I'm not asking you to believe as I do. I was only asking what it is that your "independent thought" has led you to demise about this "rational" world. Thank you for clarifying a little bit.
I sure am glad you and I seem to have found some common ground, EvoGuy - even if we do disagree on the definition of child abuse
Ah - so when you said:
You did not really want to know. You were just looking for a fight?
Great. Yet another religionist. Odd really - even though you have been asking the ignorant, uneducated spiderpam to stop fighting.
Odd - I never said everyone who believes in a higher power was ignorant and uneducated.
But - lets face it - they are the ones pushing it most aggressively.
Let me say it one more time: YES, I do want to know about atheism - from atheists (not a google search). If I am to take your typing at face value, why can't you take my typing at face value?
Where do you see that I am fighting? I thanked you for another of your posts that I felt added some clarity to your perspective. I thanked you for the "rational thought" post, because I felt it added some additional clarity. What am I fighting you about? I agreed with you on some of your points. Are you using discussion/debating and fighting interchangeably?
"I never said everyone who believes in a higher power was ignorant and uneducated." You specifically said, "uneducated, ignorant people spreading the message." When you said, "the message," I assumed you meant the message that there is a higher power. My assumption led me to my statement that not all people who believe in a higher power are uneducated. My apologies if my assumption was incorrect.
"Great. Yet another religionist." You have used this term a lot to imply someone who refuses to listen. Where is your basis for classifying me as someone who refuses to listen? Or are you meaning it in a different way in this post? Please explain what you mean by "religionist."
I have not, nor will I ever "PUSH" anything. My beliefs are mine, not yours. They stem from my history, not yours. I've never asked you to say a salvation prayer with me, I've never quoted Scripture to you, and I've never invited you to a Bible study. Yes, there are some who are aggressive in their beliefs, but so aren't you?
Religionist is such an awkward word. Theist has always sounded much better, especially in the contest of the conversation.
Both of my parents were such devout Christians, they could hardly wait to die to see Heaven. They actually looked forward to it!
Most atheiests I've known believe their energy continues in some way. For example, one I know wants to be buried at the base of an oak tree so that he can "fertilize" the tree and become part of it.
An atheist is a person who does not believe in a higher power. Any further attempts to categorize them is impossible because atheism is not a "religion" in the sense that there is a doctrine of belief others follow. An individual atheist will generally come to their decision on his or her own.
As there are no values ascribed to the belief, there are divergent views on the world among non-theists. You will see a large number of humanists who believe in doing the right thing for the sake of doing it rather than due to a belief in the supernatural.
You'll also find hedonistic LaVey Satanists (the mention of Satan belies the central tenant that there is no God or Satan) that believe humanity is meant to be used and social mores are useless.
You'll find colder athiests who believe in enforcing and encouraging evolutionary pecking orders. There are athiests who are just apathetic other than not believing in a god. Angels and monsters and next door neighbors.
In short, the only belief that is required for an athiest is that there are no god(s).
What Absolute BS!! No Higher Power? May Thoth strike you down for your self righteousness and totally impotent pomp!
Thank you for the response, Len. I have to go do laundry, but I will definitely look it over. Hopefully I will have time to do some research to understand all these different terms.
Thank you again for your willingness to educate me.
I agree with Uninvitedwriter's post about tolerance and acceptance. I'm a Christian, but I don't feel it's my duty to judge others. I understand how some non-believers have a negative view of Christians who are always judging and condemning others for their beliefs or for the lack of belief. Actions like these will never "win people over to God." In fact, it often sends them running in the other direction.
My thoughts are that...my dad was an Atheist, died in 2004 and I miss him! Doesn't matter what his beliefs were!
Do you think I'm buying you're truly interested in my opinion? I wasn't born yesterday OK ?
You can Google different atheist's opinion.
Mine, are all over the forum for you to see.
Just know that I am sorry that my message did not come across sincere. Is there an emoticon for sincere? I would use it.
I'm disturbed by the question. If you want a debate of Religion and Athieism, then just say so.
The question just creates anger and hate to each others views.
I'm a Christian, but I didn't support asking questions that divide us even further.
It is your separatist/favored belief system that creates the hate and separism. You are looking inside the box you are in.
I appreciate that, wish more people thought like you. But as you notice all the questions in the forum about atheism are meant to create division.
I think an atheist thinks this before they die. "Well, let's see what's going to happen next."
The origin of the definition doesn't matter. You are free to dispute the definition, or assert you don't believe the defined thing exists.
If you do neither, and instead hypothesise using the given (or assumed) definition, then your hypothesis must be consistent with that definition. If it isn't, then it's inconsistent and essentially meaningless.
That isn't semantics, it's very basic reasoning. And as you've commented frequently on the lack of reasoning shown by others, I don't think it "odd" to point out the flaws in your own. In fact I think it wholly appropriate
What are the Thoughts of a Dying Atheist?
Well, I don't practice any form of religion, which is what an atheist is or does.
How ever, as to the thoughts of a Dying Atheist, I am forced to leave it to the individual person. I can not nor will I expect anything I say, to be anywhere near what one would be thinking.
However, on another note-
If you're as strong willed as I am, then I would be trying to correct the wrong in your life, so you can get back to living your life.
Do not fear death. It will eat away at your self-spirit and diminish your view about your life.
This will cause you to die faster and will not slow the process or even prevent it.
Your inaction and acceptance of death, will only lead you closer to it.
Yes, I agree. As someone with no denomination, if I was given a choice as to how to die, I think I would want to know I have a time-limit, so as I can right my wrongs. Great comments here x
Thoughts of a dying atheist:
I hope I did enough to provide for my family. I hope they will carry strong on after I'm gone.
Well, yeah, but I still can visit my friends before I go, right?
Oh, alright then
On a more actual note. When my dad died, the night of his funeral he visited me at around 3 o'clock in the morning. His visit woke me up, I was a little fearful until I realized who it was. I acknowledged his presence and rolled over and went back to sleep. The nerve of those spirits, waking me in the middle of the night!
“Believers” believe there is a God. “Non believers” believe there is no god. Each believes their viewpoint is correct and the other viewpoint is incorrect. Neither has solid proof to support their beliefs. Therefore, it seems illogical that neither side is willing to admit that they might possibly be wrong. Why is it so difficult for some people to say, "I don't accept your belief system but I could be wrong."
I understand where you're coming from, but what if you found out that your belief was proved wrong, through proper understanding of humankind, would you change your belief?
Probably not, but you might rethink where you faith lies.
The correct answer is yes if I accept your given that I found a proof that my belief was wrong. I not sure what "through proper understanding of humankind" has to do with this.
Well, think about the word "human".
You are a person of free will, who can make rational and sane thoughts, which take form in your actions.
Your consciousness, the awareness that tell you are alive, allows you to understand to what it means to be alive. You can tell of your own existence, unlike animals which are guided by nature's automatic system. Animals don't even know they exist. There is no soul or spirit, to speak of inside animals. Then again, there is also no soul or spirit, per se, physically in humankind.
Those words "soul" and "spirit" are man-made words, to describe an individual person.
Example: He had a good "soul", he helped a lot of people.
Example: He has a competitive spirit which drives his motivation.
To be a human and alive, you can not go against your own ability to guide yourself, either be to religion or not.
You must make an active mental thought, which to form your belief, which means you are guiding yourself toward making decisions.
Your belief in religion or it's text(god's will and/or words), speaks of things, which are not based on facts in evidence. Therefore, "faith" is required.
But, your own consciousness' need for self-guidance is oppressed, which is destructive to your life.
Your conscience when working with consciousness/awareness, that you can guide yourself without external/outside guidance.
You know in your head, what is real and what is not. Common sense and your consciousness/awareness allows you to determine what is and isn't.
When realized, you learn to understand that it is truly YOU who are in control of your own existence and not by other sources, who claim to know what you're suppose to do.
You can develop a purpose for your own life, through your thought forming free will. Therefore, your purpose should not be left in the hands of someone else.
You are to decide what purpose your life has and NO ONE else can tell that, except for your inner-self, which is your consciousness.
Your consciousness/awareness will never go away and it doesn't sleep or stop running, even when your asleep, just because of the pure fact that your are still breathing, which means you are alive and well.
I'm not sure, that helped.
Perhaps we are here to learn the lessons of our lives If, therefore, we were 100 percent certain that there was more after death, perhaps the experience of life or its purpose would not be worthwhile? I don't know for sure, but perhaps there is a bigger picture?
This is great! It shows you are someone who has respect and tolerance to people and their views. This is 'objective' rather than 'subjective'. Keep being kind and happy x
This is an atrocious misrepresentation of the truth.
The truth is - most believers have a set of rules that their god needs you to follow and most believers feel the need to evangelize. Like it tells them to in the bible.
You say "there is a god" - I have no problem.
You say, "there is a god and He wrote this book for you to live your life by and - you see all these churches we built to honor His glory - well - you need to help pay for them."
How very "objective" of you to ignore the millions of believers that do though.
And like all good Christians - are prepare to lie to get your beliefs out there:
"I suggest that if you believe in a Kingdom of Heaven, then you will find Judas at the right hand side of Christ!"
Why is that? You are saying you do not believe in christ and the bible then?
I don't really know. I like to explore options and keep and open mind. An idea might come to mind and I think... ummmm.. what if?! x
Odd. That rather directly contradicts your opening statement:
Must be the utter terror that is making you do that.
That doesnt stop me from having an enquiring, open mind, does it? Dont you think that life is an evolving, changing thing - its about development in every way. I am open to be 'developed' as a human being. I think that in order to get the most out of the exercise (i.e. life), one has to be open to all views and experiences.
Of course it stops you. You have already decided that the only thing preventing you from succumbing to utter terror is your belief system.
Odd how believers (and this includes you apparently) seem to think "open minded" means "believing something completely irrational."
And it almost always - as you so clearly stated - stems from fear - or "utter terror."
You don't know what I believe, hon, and I am not about to spout off to you about my beliefs. I respect your views and I know, just like me, you have a choice to have a personal belief system, whatever it is, just like everyone. x
I do know what you believe, pet - you made it plain as day. But - you go ahead believing whatever alleviates the utter terror. Whatever gets you through the day sweetie pie.
Thanks for not spouting off about the utter horror you feel and wondering what atheists must feel like when they are dying.
Not that you were or anything, petal.
Have you considered that what you have just said could be wrong?
I prefer, "I don't accept your belief system, but... we can still get along."
In matters of the head I'm always open but in matters of the heart, I'm committed.
A strong belief carries a lot of conviction regardless of which side you fall on. It's that conviction that we rely on in times of crisis.
Then again, I'm the one who says we are all supposed to fight! We're not supposed to agree.
My 2 cents
Nice to see you again jen.
Thanks for your 2 cents.
Back at ya Cagsil
I really do believe we are supposed to be at odds. Maybe not at WAR although I get a little snarky myself sometimes.
I'm a strong atheist who accepts that faith is important. I only have a problem when that faith becomes a weapon against others. Make sense?
There's another penny.
I have no real interest in guiding people toward a hidden agenda.
I don't claim to have ALL the answers.
But, my unique understanding must be shared.
I feel, don't believe, compelled to tell people what I've learned.
That's why I took to writing, so I can express it.
Having a new found consciousness myself, because of my due diligence research, has become my driving force to tell others.
I'm not spreading lies, I'm spreading understanding, through human consciousness awareness.
Faith: means to believe in something that is not real. The word was derived many centuries ago.
The only faith that you can rely on is the faith you have in your own ability to control your own life. Knowing and understanding what you know, creating rational and sane thoughts, which form to make a decision or action.
Faith is not a luxury, humankind can afford. Because, as of right now....it is literally killing society and will eventually wipeout humankind.
IF, the realization of self-responsibility in oneself, guided by oneself's own thoughts, through human consciousness and awareness, cannot ever be realized by "ALL" humanity, it will result in the destruction of the human race.
I hope that made sense to you.
"Just in case... I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior!"
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