Please provide proof that atheism is true and correct

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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
what a tragic waste of love ,joy and happiness
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SirDentposted 15 years ago

This one will end this discussion for sure.
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Lee Booleanposted 15 years ago
Theism: the belief in one or more deities.

Atheism: rejection of theism, the position that deities do not exist.

Now, the question is do gods exist, or does your god exist?

if the answer is the second one, you are in all but one cases an Atheist.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i.e. your question answered, everyone is an atheist
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you say so.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  deep
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know
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aka-djposted 15 years ago
Greater love has no man, than to LAY DOWN HIS LIFE for his friends. NOT, lay down somebody elses life (instead of).
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great point!
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aka-djposted 15 years ago
God Wins = Law.
End of debate.
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
If you believe in Atheism ,does that mean you cannot communicate with diplomacy and decorum ?
Mark I hear you speak of education alot , yet I was raised to learn that sarcism ,critism , mocking and sneering are not the attributes of intelligence.....anyway guess thats another thread...

All I can say must be an unhappy person who always has to be always looking at for ways to crush Christians or their beliefs

almost sad ..certainly what are the benefits ?
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not really understanding why trying to educate people is sad. What is wrong with trying to help people understand science and the world?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Im sure (being so well educated) you can do that without being condescending now theres a challenge.
  (and dont twist my words)
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Condescending?
  
  Sorry, I am not trying to be condescending. Anyone who thinks the dinosaurs were on the planet at the same time as humans is lacking in education. I can help if you would let me.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No thanks, I have a grandpa already
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey “scientist” you could help me by answering all my questions. But you haven’t yet done this. Why? Because you have not the answers. So who lacks in what here?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Probably my fault for interrupting his train of thought Pam , but Im off to tweek a hub or two or not , byeeee all
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have a great day!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand science very well that why I know your interpretation of facts is wrong. What did you guys ever make of the T-Rex found with blood cells still inside?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ooo, yes, that was a grand story! and they breathed fire! tell us about the ark again, we need some more real science here!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Keep in mind that is was the evolutionist that announced they were blood cells not us.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I never said you were anything I was simply stating who made the disovery, don't make it personal. Do you kow when the word dinosaurs was invented?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  now how would that trivia help.. so let's call them "Bournemouth" found eating grass under some in the marshes, the main question is why not more of them were found in tact like mammoths or other animals known to have shared their history with us were.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you kidding?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not, please excuse my lack of proof reading, I could see how you might have gotten that impression.
  I have 2 points I am trying to make here:
  1) why not more dinosaurs were found in better shape
  2) why there is no real reference of them in the bible and why god did not give his writers some indication of why he would have killed all of them (unlike people they did not sin)
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Dude! WTF is wrong with you?
  
  He killed them to turn into oil. He knew we would be needing oil. so Wham ! Through a scientific process known as "rusting" (Like it say in the bible AMEN!) the dinos (firebreathing dragons) were all quickly drownded and made inter oil in a very - much faster than the lying scientists will ever admit to - fast process that makes dead animals into oil in under 2000 years.
  
  Like it say in the bible. AMEN!
  
  Everybody knows that jeebus was riding not an ass but an velociraptor. This was a mistranslation in the 3397th version.
  
  You think the lord god almighty would have been seen dead riding a poxy ass when he could have ridden a velociraptor?
  
  Sheesh - wat is wrong with you?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So sorry sir, for not seeing this, of course, as piderspam just revealed to us, animals were put on earth for mankind's exclusive use, this god must have had quite a bit of insight knowing just exactly when to kill the animals in time for us to be able use them as fuel.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, He is omni-potent. O course He knew we would be needing oil.
  
  Why do you think He made the dinosaurs (other wise known as dragons) in the first place?
  
  When we run out of oil - we will be making the next batch from Chinese people. They are all atheists anyway. Why do you think there are so many Chinese people?
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You don't seem to have any answers to questions asked of you. Your entire argument that God does not exist is evolution? Not too sharp!
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL
  
  And your entire argument that god exists is "Because I said so."
  
  Not too sharp. Downright ignorant in fact. Oh well. at least we know where the next batch of oil is coming from.
  
  Sorry you are unable to understand the theory of evolution. Not really my fault top were denied an education - but - it is not too late.
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that evolution occurs, I have never said that God exists because I said so! Instead of lying about what I have said prove the assertion that evolution created this world. Bet you won't, bet you cant, Bye.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You cannot answer any of my questions thus you don't understand evolution, and if you do explain it from the beginning. What exploded?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that batch would not be ready for another 2000 years, besides the quality issues, any believer would tell you we are in fact now in the end of times, fuel and ammunition are bound to run out since the prophecy foresees Jesus on horseback with a sword..
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I will ask again, how did evolution create the world we live in? For some reason you don't seem to have any answers.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do not have the answers, but I fear neither do you... evolution in its simplest form is a fact, an observable fact, the claim that we have known the truth all along and that people spend years in university simply to become part of a gigantic conspiracy is absurd. When a person finds a satisfying answer to his question he stops looking for new answers, The bible did not provide this for me, may very well be that there is some sort of creator, may also be that we are part of a science experiment by aliens, for all we know... but why should we be satisfied with a half true and irrational book from the bronze age?
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes things evolve, we know, at least your answer is almost honest.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  which part did you find less honest if I may ask?
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If Dinosaurs turn into oil, how come they are finding skeletons of them? Wouldn't there be an oil slick instead? Just curious.
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  frogdroppingposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know what made me dive into this increasingly crazy pit but call it what you will (devine intervention or just happenstance?) but the above comment made me howl with laughter.
  
  EG - you're incredibly refreshing. I'm having a bad day and that really cheered me up ... thankyou
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Here.
  They were all pretty much destroyed the flood of noah that they are never found completely intact. . Flood proof.
  Animals are Not human. Why try to draw comparison that's what evolution does it brings humans down. Why such low self esteem do you want to be an animal?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hu? now you are kidding right? good one!
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Our species does not make me terribly proud most of the time... animals have a better moral code.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They have no moral code.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am guessing you don't have pets, dogs will die for their masters, literally...
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I have to ask this:
  
  What are you hoping to achieve here?
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is it that you understand?
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But you fail to understand the puerile and laughable nature how the views of believers appear to non-believers. Non believers have no other choice but to mock. To mock brings a sense of decorum because it rationalizes idiotic beliefs. Mocking in this instance is a virtue.
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Star Witnessposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, that's not true either. Entertaining, though, I'd imagine.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
Well, I don't believe in God. But I am not an evil person and I will not be killing anyone.

They were human...human's are capable of great cruelty to others regardless if they believe in God or not...
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
Men kill because they are hungry for power and/or wealth.
Leaders, Kings, sevants of the Queen, servants of Emporers..on an on ...they ddidnt follow God or gods they followed their own selfish ambitions !

Just like many still do today.
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Star Witnessposted 15 years ago
Em, is this question just a little heavy for the hubpage religion posts?

There are ethical and rational Christians and there are ethical and rational atheists. Not too much rational here, though, lol.
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
Whatever floats ya boat (I guess)
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
Maximus ,give in God will forgive you for getting it all wrong
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Tom Cornettposted 15 years ago
If religions actually practiced what they preached....the question of Atheism probably wouldn't even exist.
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think the individual is responsible for practicing what they preach. There will always be atheists just as there have always been doubters of Christ.
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retellectposted 15 years ago
Religion is one of the worlds most leading cause for wars. I see it slowly bubbling here too!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More than 93 percent of all the wars in human history had no relation to religion
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But 95% of the people ever murdered were murdered by a believer.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL Yep a believer of self, not God.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
Scroll up and read what Yoshi has said...in detail...
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atilposted 15 years ago
"I do not have the answers" That's the Honest part.

Maybe almost honest was the wrong way to word it.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How about "neither do you"
  
  That was pretty honest.
  
  This atil has some proof though - right?
  
  He is not just saying god exists. He has proof.
  
  Any time.....................
  
  Until such time, we can go with evolution proves there is not a god..
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Anytime what? Proof? Can't be proven or disproved, that's why your silly argument that evolution proves there is no God is as laughable as most of your posts on this forum!
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  atilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ridiculous, evolution proves things evolve and nothing more.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Things evolve = not created.
  
  I know this must be difficult for you, but try and follow along.
  
  Adaptation to random changes in the environment and random mutations = not created.
  
  No goal. No developmental destination. No god. Simple. No big guy in the sky looking out for true beleebers. Too bad huh? Makes your life not worth living. What a pity.
  See? Not so hard huh?
  
  Still waiting to hear why god exists rather than because you said so.
  
  Any time.....
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
I agree, most people in the world...religious and not...believe that evolution and believing in God are not mutually exclusive. In other words, evolution does not negate God.
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
  
  Atil - Well I misread your post. I personally believe in god, my whole point in this thread was that asking people to prove a negative is irrational. I have met many rational and logical Christians, however I have seen very few on these forums.
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  TimTurnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I don't get it either. I'm not a christian but evolution doesn't disprove religion at all.
  
  Although, some christians in these forums argued that evolution was against the bible's teachings.
  
  I dunno. It's not a book I believe in so no need for me to worry about that. That's a problem for Christians, not myself
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It raises a lot of questions for creationism. I think that's where the rub lies.
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
I’ve been wavering back and forth as to whether I should make this particular post. I’ve decided I’m going to go ahead and do it.

I do not believe experiencing something that is obviously supernatural changes a person’s beliefs in most cases. Some people have claimed (I have heard this personally) that if God really existed he would be proving himself with undeniable signs and miracles etc… Actually when Jesus performed miracles as recorded in the Bible, he actually told people to be thankful to God for the blessing (a healing of terminal illness for example) but not to advertise what had happened to them. In fact he would state it like this “tell no man”. Why did he say this? Because people would then be seeking God for the miracles they could see or experience and not for personal relationship with him. Jesus also stated that “it is an evil generation that seeks after a sign”. He also knew the intentions of people and stated that some people followed him strictly because of the miracles he was performing.

I’ve seen movies in which someone would “command God” to strike them with lightning (or maybe just strike a tree in front of them) or to make something appear before them etc… as if this would convince them of something, when in-reality they would explain it away as coincidence or as a hallucination or in the case of multiple witnesses, as mass-hallucination. Besides this, I would not respect a God who catered to the every whim of morons and neither would you.

In reality there is no proof that can be offered someone who chooses not to believe in a creator who has a purpose for their life and who has given meaning to it. They have made a choice and they will form their own beliefs, period. This, despite the fact that the Bible itself states that, their very existence and the planet of vast varieties of life around them (creation) is already proof of God. There’s really no greater proof that exists and it’s really incredible from my view that it’s claimed to not be enough. It’s difficult to understand why even those who believe in an evolutionary process don’t recognize a supreme being. Pr0metheus made a really good statement in a earlier post, that “maybe God is the sum-total of all energy in the universe” (not his exact words but close). I like that.

With that said, I realize my sharing of the following experiences will not make a difference in the belief-choices of anyone but why not share them anyway? I have tremendous respect for the God I believe-in and in fact am totally awed by him and I’m very careful about how I go about relating these experiences. I do so as accurately as I know how (have a series of Hubs covering other experiences as well) and I have a deep respect for them.

Had I never experienced these things and if I never experience anything supernatural again, it will not change (and would not have changed) my awesome respect and belief in God. Now, here are a couple of things from this aspect of my personal experience (not claiming my experience affects your beliefs), following: (I am pasting this from a Hub, so some of it may come across as written toward those who already believe in God – no offense intended).

“The story is from 1983, a time I had been seeking to see angelic ministry in my life, after having read a book on the subject. This was not wise but I was a new Christian at the time and lacking maturity. In fact, this was the first year of marriage with my wife, whom I’ll soon celebrate 27 years of marriage with. We actually don't need to seek specific signs or manifestations of supernatural things from God because we should already realize that God performs these types of things, whether we witness them or not and we should desire to see him perform his will and not what we desire to see. This was the mistake I made in praying and seeking to see angelic manifestations back in 1983 and I ended up experiencing one and not knowing how to react to it when it did happen.

This first experience started after my praying to witness angelic ministry, with my having someone walk up to me, while I was laying in my bed at night but before going to sleep and I could sense that someone was bending over me, placing their hand on my side and trying to speak something to me. This happened several times over several nights and I told my wife about it. On one of these occasions, I could see someone out of the corner of my eye, that appeared to be dressed in white and this literally caused me to cover my head and shiver in my bed. For some reason, I could not bring myself to look directly at this being.

Not long following my relating to my wife, that this was happening, she and I were in bed one night, reading, with the lights on and we distinctly heard someone walking down our hallway and stopping at the end of it, at the edge of our room. They sounded large and it was unmistakable and absolutely not imagined or something else we were hearing, someone definitely was there but they were not visible to us! At the same time, we felt an incredible presence that caused us to feel what I can only describe as a flush that came over us and we were unable to move for a few moments, as if paralyzed. Once I was able to move, I jumped from the bed and took a rifle with me throughout the house, praying out loud.

This was proof of my immaturity and that I was not ready for a supernatural, angelic manifestation and should have instead, been believing in God to perform such things in his own way and according to his will and timing. It was not my place to ask God to show me that these things were present and working, I just needed to accept this fact by faith. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Within a few days of this experience, my employer, who was also living next door to me, accidentally ran over his approximately 18 month old girl, with a tractor and she was miraculously healed of her injuries (following prayer) that Doctors first stated were severe and included broken ribs. I was present and witnessed this accident and was the one who drove the father and child to the emergency room.

I feel that with my stubbornness to want God to work in my life through the angelic ministry that I was wanting to witness, I was not listening to him otherwise and it could very possibly be that the angelic visitation we experienced days earlier, was an advance warning about this accident, so that prayer could have gone forth to possibly prevent it.” <(Christians are led by the Holy Spirit – “inward witness” not by angelic visits.)

Let me end this post by adding that I know two men from two different states, who had experiences from the opposite side, that were of evil manifestations that they witnessed. I’m not going to go into this one in detail but will say that the experiences of the two men who had never met each other had stunning similarities.

Yes, I believe in God and I believe there is an opposing spirit out there as well and is the source of all that is bad happening throughout the world. The Bible in fact states that we live in a fallen world due to man’s purposeful rejection of God after his creation. God can and has intervened at times but he is a God of covenant (contract) and he does not desire to step-in and force his will or change what man has allowed his world to become because he was given complete authority and dominion over it. He also DOES NOT force people to accept him or to enter relationship/fellowship with him.

Man, influenced by evil is the source of all of the bad that happens as stated in Bible scripture, so when he points a finger of blame toward God, he has four others that are pointing back at his self.

I realize this post won’t go over well with some who are visiting this thread and it will be picked apart but the thread is about debate between belief and non-believe in God and experience does enter into it I would think, whether it makes a difference in the minds of anyone reading it or not, so I’ve added it.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  So this means evolutionary theory is a lie?
  
  Jeebus dun be proud tonite....
  
  Praise de lawd........
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Jim, always a pleasure!
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
Evolution Guy,

I knew you'd be the first to reply.

What's a bit suspicious is the fact that I posted it and immediately went in to seperate some paragraphs and your response was already there!

You didn't read or consider (doesn't matter to me but does make a point). The fastest speed-reader in the world could not have read it that fast.

What does this indicate? That Evolution Guy is not open to thoughts of any kind but has pre-decided regardless.

In addition to this your posts should be voted the most immature offered in the history of HubPages. They are incredibly childish and true evolutionists should not want you representing them. You actually bring more doubt to it than anything for some readers who judge partially on how intelligently things are posted. You miss the mark by a long, long way.

I've actually been glad to see it from you to be honest (I do mention you in my 3rd paragraph)!

Yeah, I'd say your "jeebus" really is proud of you.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  SO - this proves that evolution does not happen how exactly?
  
  Jeebus be dun right proud, Praise de lawd.
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Pr0metheusposted 15 years ago
Big Bang - The super string theory says it was a collision of two extra-dimensional (more than 4) membranes which caused massive amounts matter and antimatter to come into existence, collide, then explode. The left over matter is what makes up the universe.

Read:
'Elegant Universe' - Brian Greene
'Fabric of the Cosmos' - Michio Kaku
'The Universe in a Nutshell' - Steven Hawkings
If you want to know more.... Or watch the universe on the History channel.

Either way, it wasn't an omnipotent man saying "let the universe exist!"
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  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If God is God of everything which I believe he is than its not hard to accept that any big bang would /could have happened as part of the process of creation....
  
  Its rains , theres a rainbow , no biggy all part of Gods plan.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And the dinosaurs?......
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  silly, rainbows did not exist before the flood, like many other physical laws this one was changed along with the speed of light, the oxegen density that made people 900 years old and the magical dino.. oops fire breathing dragons
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is there an echo?
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  sorry, this was said before, I was away in the real world for a while. Apologies, by the way pam, why did you ignore my first post?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please repeat?
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
Pr0metheus,

Just as an addition to your last post-thought, most people who believe in a supreme being don't actually believe he is simply contained in a body that is image-similar to man's. While he can express as a person, Bible-scriptures for example state that he is also omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipresent (everywhere at once).

The word "omni-SCIENT" is interesting as is the fact that the Bible mentions "science" specifically.
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's good to hear. I believe in a god - if he were to present himself to man, I suppose he would takes man form to make himself more comprehensible by the being he presented himself to. (I say he to make it easy... I honestly doubt gender matters to God.)
  
  Eaglekiwi - I agree!
  
  <snipped - no links in the forums, please>
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Lee Booleanposted 15 years ago
Just out of curiosity, did anything said in this forum make you think, ponder or question the original statement you made?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You cannot prove a negative, positive was the original point. Therefore atheism is not true. it can only be a negative, But look how many people tried to make atheism a good thing. It's astounding.
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  Lee Booleanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  so you basically set them up for failure, very Christian of you. In case you care, I am agnostic, not atheist.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just you know I'm Biblical Christian, not religious.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Even your statement contradict.
  
  Biblical Christan, not religious?
  
  All those words go hand-n-hand.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not religious? That is all the only book you follow is about! What a ridiculous statement, I am not religious!
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Prove that god isn't a flying spaghetti monster. You can't, therefore he is a flying spaghetti monster.
  
  I win!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  FSM again! you're following me, atheist, I win!
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
  
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arthritickneeposted 15 years ago
MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm Spaghetti
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
Teaming up always works
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We win, and she admits that we win! Congrats fellow atheists (who are not atheists, but can't get this woman to read a word they type).
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well this thread can be closed finally
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Enjoy your 3 days of thinking time.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I said works, but you still didn't win stalker
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ...said the woman who emails strangers with univited rants. Pr0metheus is groovy. just because you say he is a stalker doesn't mean it's true.
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks! If this board had signatures this would be in it :-P
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not this anything again, I'm sorry Cosette. I'll never contact you again, could you do the same.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i never wrote back and have no intention of doing so, believe me.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You never wrote me back? Whatever you say. good bye
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK NOW YOU ARE LYING.
  
  i never wrote you back.
  
  produce the email with my IP address, LIAR. and if i replied through HubPages, ask the HubPages team to back you up.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A CHRISTIAN IS TELLING A LIE RIGHT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.
  
  well that says it all doesn't it. your God will punish you for lying i'm sure. isn't that one of your commandments?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And delete this lie too cos
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  PRODUCE THE EMAIL WITH MY IP ADDRESS.
  
  IF I CONTACTED YOU THROUGH THE HUBPAGES SYSTEM, ASK THE HUBPAGES TEAM TO VERIFY THAT PUBLICLY.
  
  liar.
  
  p.s. i am not in the habit of reporting my fellow hubbers, but in this case i made an exception. i am not going to let you slander me.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now apologize you'll feel better cos
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  not only are you a liar, you're crazy. i will let the HubTeam deal with you.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "I 'll read over your soucres later and give them the time they deserve"
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And I quote "I 'll read over your soucres later and give them the time they deserve" You called me a liar, now apologize.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The mind is shut tight like a fishes ass!
  
  I love the certainty expressed by religionists, but I think their subconscious will not buy it, so they spend all their time and effort trying to convert others as proof that they are right. What a dilemma!
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arthritickneeposted 15 years ago
Spiderpam:

Do you not see the futility in arguing this topic.
Everything you say in defense of your beliefs applies equally to the belief there is no god.

You ask for proof but have nothing to offer yourself.

Just because you cannot fathom another reason for our existence does not mean there isn't one.

You may be right, you may be wrong. Proof definitely does not exist. Can we agree on that?

All you have proven to date is that you have too much time on your hands and are unlikely to win a debating medal anytime soon.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The burden of proof is not on me I claim no absolute, atheists do(No God) Since you cannot prove a negative to be anything but negative, atheism cannot be true, right, logical, good or any other positive. That point that was already conceded or avoided, by the other atheist here.
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is a lost cause. Please everyone, just let this thread drop.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then stop, If you're not an atheist this thread wasn't even for you unless....
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You claim there is an invisible hostile entity ready to smite non believers, being all those who do not agree with you! How crazy is that?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And he continues
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i saw this news story last week about this duck that someone used for target practice. it was horrible. they had shot the poor duck with five arrows...someone found the duck and took him to the vet. last i heard he was ok. i cannot imagine the unbelievable suffering this duck must have gone through. if i saw this happening i would have grabbed that shooter's bowstaff and smacked him on the head with it. and if i were God i would have flicked my pinky finger and lightning bolts would have come out and fried him to a crisp.
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
I'm replying kind of selectively here but some posts are repeats and have been replied to previously.

The "rainbow" mentioned earlier by Lee is not mentioned in scripture as having not existed before the flood. It was simply pointed out due to the reason that it appears often with moisture in the air. You can make a miniature rainbow using a waterhose.

It was simply a "reminder" and not something created at that moment. The colors represented in the rainbow are described as having already existed in "heaven" (God's bow of color).

I referred to heaven and big issue is sometimes made when reference is made to it as well, such as the one that says it's a "pie in the sky" belief etc.... but heaven is basically a planet and earth in essence was modeled after it, just as man, as an eternal spirit was made in God's image - according to Christian belief.

Even Evolutionist - Richard Dawkins (author of The God Delusion) believes in the possibility that mankind was seeded here by extraterrestrials (panspermia). What's notable about these types of things is that they often go full-circle and make the very point that was being disagreed upon in the first place.

If you like, you can look at God as that extraterrestrial (from beyond our own planet) who seeded the life here. That's really not an incorrect view in my opnion.

If I can quote a fragment of scripture without upsetting anyone, just allow it for this point, look>>

"And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion..." (Gen 1:26)

I'm not preaching here, I'm simply adding to some of the thoughts being brought up.

Cagsil,

All Christians are not "religious" and the terms do not go hand-in-hand. I mentioned this earlier but the Bible does not mention the word "religion" in the Old Testament and only twice in the New Testament. It's also not in reference to Christians but was offered as a definition for people, who in those days desired to practice religion (some of course still do). In fact the book of James refers to "vain religion". Other scriptures in the New Testament talk about people placing a bondage on theirselves by practicing rudiments, traditions and dogmas. It also warns against replacing relatonship with God with these types of things. Christ offered himself as the "mediator" between God and man and so was not offering a religion but a relationship.
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arthritickneeposted 15 years ago
You claim there is absolutely not nothing.

If you are not claiming absolutes does that mean you partially believe in your god?

I am happy with nothing. It does not make me afraid.

Again you miss the point that you are essentially arguing with yourself.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
  
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Len Cannonposted 15 years ago
I have a signed letter from God saying he isn't real. Will that suffice?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
Pr0metheus,

I believe I agree that the thread should be ended but I also don't believe it has been a lost cause.

I enjoyed reading both sides because I've learned more about opinions people hold and why they hold them.

I will also say that I've believed from the very beginning of this thread and for many years of my life that you cannot offer proof for some things (also doesn't mean they don't exist). I don't however believe that means those things can't be discussed.

I'll also admit I wish these types of discussions could be done without the insults and degrading remarks that entered-in at times because disagreements can be expressed without them (many times it comes from people feeling a need to defend their selves). I know for a fact this can be done on forums or message-boards that enter this type discussion because I have seen it done and have at times been involved in them!

It didn't happen with these past threads but maybe more civil threads will occur here someday. I believe moderation might be the answer to that by someone who is neutral and non-biased (yes they exist!). I don't suggest this because most people weren't civil, actually most were with only few a exceptions. These few however (one in particular) did abuse the discussion in my opnion. Most of the heated discussion became passionate but not necessarily insulting or degrading.

We'll see what happens in the future and I personally will have to give a great deal of thought about whether or not I will get involved in any future ones here.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
I'm closing it now
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  a liar AND a hypocrite.
  
  how DO you sleep at night?
  
  oh...right....DENIAL!
  
  have fun living your unauthentic bleak little life...
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bye Cos
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't let her get to you cos... don't give her that power. Acknowledge her ignorance and move on.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She's wrong, I have the email and I'm hoping she'll apologize. But her pride won't let her, why are you still here?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  why are you so upset about this? everyone has their own opinion. plus, if your posting a topic asking people to provide proof that there is no god, then it tells me that you might have your own share of doubts. look, everyone is going to believe what they want okay.
  
  so why fight it. just as long as you know what you believe in, and follow it. thats all that should matter.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not upset, really, just annoyed.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But what if you learn that your belief is wrong?
  
  And, yes beliefs can be wrong, because beliefs are formed based on absolutes and facts, determined by reality.
  
  So, if a belief is based on a FALSE IDOL then how can one human individual justify to oneself a valid belief in "GOD"?
  
  We are ALL humans, we must deal in reality and what we can see, taste, smell, touch and hear.
  
  You get NONE of that from a supposed "god".
  
  On top of that- last time I checked........
  
  Jesus Christ was a Human Being. He was born on Earth. He walked on Earth. He Spoke to Real People.
  
  Jesus Christ claimed to be a "GOD". Didn't He?
  
  So, that would make HUMANS - Gods!
  
  Why look any further for other guidance than oneself?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And therein lies the goal of secular humanism: Be your own god,
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know what the word secular means?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well first of all, i do respect and understand where your coming from. Secondly, I never said definitely that i was right about anything. If you had read my first post on page 20 of this forum, you'll find a comment where i even said my religion could be wrong. Hell, down in africa, there are some tribes that worship monkeys, so who's to say they're religion isn't any truer than mine?
  
  Look, all I'm trying to say is from personal experience, when it comes to religion and politics, people will never change their opinions. EVER! That's from my own personal opinion, and I was trying to get spiderpam to realize that no matter how much she argues, atheists aren't going to believe her arguements, and vice versa. So whats the point of this forum topic? which is all i was trying to say.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize, my response wasn't intended for you.
  
  It was intended for someone else.
  
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  thats cool. i understand. no hard feelings. besides, like i said before, we won't know the absolute truth until we're all dead anyway. lol. not to sound grim or anything but that is a fact though. lol
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i am the first to admit if i do something improper, and you clearly are not. to compound your unethical nature and your fear of public condemnation, you add to your problem by lying about me. your God must be terribly disappointed in you right now. people on HubPages know enough about me to know that i ignore people who are jerks, especially weirdos who email me out of the blue. i never, ever write back to them. i try to distance myself from people of your ilk as much as possible.
  
  the irony is, i am not a Christian, yet i am behaving better than you are. how sad for you that you compromise your own principles to save face.
  
  produce the email showing my IP address, or shut up, 'k?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You said "thank you. i will take a look at your links when i have time to give them the attention they deserve. have a great day!" "MJR"
  Keep in mind you started this exchange here. Could you please apoplogize now and leave.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  pam, you are referencing an email you wrote to me on september 29. you sent me a bunch of links re: a forum discussion with TheTruthHurts. and i sent you that reply.
  
  frankly i didn't look at your links and forgot about it.
  
  THEN you sent me another email on October 16th. i will go further and say that i had no idea you were that same person.
  THAT is the one filled with rants about me and my son. THAT is the email i am talking about, and that is the email i did not answer.
  
  so what did i do that necessitates an apology? you posted what i wrote to you which is polite and courteous.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You said never, that was a lie. I've not changed my pic or my email. You never view the link so you lied not me cos admit it and apologize.
  Oh nevermind. What's the point.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The point is you have called a well respected hubber a liar, and it is you who lied. That is the point!!!!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But I didn't lie, Can't you read?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  she's a great deceiver ! Don't pay attention to her. She's bitter and frustrated .that's all
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as i said, if you read what i wrote, i didn't know you were the same person who wrote to me on september 29th and who sent me a bunch of bible links. that message was polite and i responded in kind and forgot about it. do you remember the names of everyone who writes to you? i certainly don't, unless we have some sort of dialog going. i apologize for not remembering you. when i got your second email on october 16, the bad one, i didn't write back, right? i came in the forum and posted to you.
  
  so i was wrong to call you a liar because in your mind, you believed i was aware that i had replied to the second email when in actuality it was the first email i had replied to, so you didn't mean to declare an untruth. i hope you can apologize to me for making it seem as if i wrote you a mean email, which is not true.
  
  ok?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok cos, I'll enjoy my "unauthentic bleak little life" but I think my last words to were "Be happy" Bye Cos
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  bye.
  
  sorry about that remark, i was upset.
  
  be well.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well I have seen you lie continuously, but having known Cosette for some time, I will say publicly that I believe her, I have never seen Cosette do anything untoward or lie.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  thank you.
  
  i appreciate that. besides, when i got her ranty email, i came to HubPages and publicly answered her and didn't mince words. that is how i deal with thugs - i expose them and move on.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  suprise surprise
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No surprise, I take people how I find them.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as do i.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with Ernest
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  haha...according to Pam, you're a stalker and i'm a liar.
  
  weirrrrdd......
  
  well she has to look in the mirror when she logs off. and when she lays her head on her pillow tonight, she will know that her God knows that she lied about someone and broke one of His commandments, so that's enough for me.
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Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago
Personally, I think this entire arguement is completely ridiculous as this like asking the same old question, "which came first? The chicken or the egg?" Did man create god? Or did God create man?

As mankind has worshipped many dieties in the past that were proclaimed gods like Thor, Apollo, Zeus, Ra, to name a few. But where are they today? Hell, in some cultures, from watching the discovery channel yesterday, talked about how some African tribes worship monkeys as gods. Are they incorrect in their belief? What makes our religion any truer than theirs. Because we come from a more prosperous country or what? And if there is a god, think of this. The way some religious leaders will have you believe is that if you don't worship him the right way, he'll send you to hell. What justice is that? Basically, the logic would be that Ghandi and Buddha, two men that lived out their lives peacefully have no shot into heaven while a guy like Hitler, could just repent before he dies and go to heaven.

However, I digress. As I'm not going to dispute this as I truly do believe there is a god. I don't know if thats really his name, but I know there is a god out there. As he saved my life several times as i felt his presence by my side countless of times. I know some atheists will argue that it was just my mind playing tricks on me, and they might be right. But who's to say god didn't get involved? You can't judge this based on merit. Maybe god did save my life to even helping me find my car keys. As some religious folks say, he works in mysterious ways.

However, I will say this to all the atheists on this site to think about. Why is it that you guys see Darwin's theory as definitive proof that there is no god? Who's to say that God didn't use Darwin's theory to create the universe? Ever think of that? I mean if we're talking about an almighty omnipotent being, than he could've created the universe however he wanted. According to scientists, they believe the Earth took about over billions of years to form to what it is today, versus religion that says only 8 days.

but who's to say that maybe in god's time, one freakin day could be like a billion years to us. So how does that scientific fact disprove god? Plus, adam and eve came from the jungle so to speak according to the bible. And so does man from Darwin's theory. So who's the say that Darwin's theory is nothing more than a blue print of how god created us, and not a contradiction.

As far as missing link goes in the evolutionary chain, I have like a few theories of my own on that.

1. Mankind is barely uncovering new species that lived on the Earth aeons ago, so who's to say we won't find it eventually.

2. Then there's my other theory is that maybe God doesn't want us to find it because he knows there would be too many atheists to try to disprove his existence, instead of using the missing link to explain how he created us. Therefore, he prevents us from ever finding it.

3. Probably the most realistic one. The catholic church and the governments have uncovered and found the missing link already, but they're covering it up. They know how it would tear religion apart across the nation as it would send religious leaders and followers into a uproar and a state of worldwide panic.

anyway, thats my two cents. sorry for my senseless ramblings, but i hope i gave you all some food for thought.
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Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago
I'll say this, anyone who wants clear definitive proof that god is real or not won't know until their dead. thats the only real way we can clear this issue. unfortunately, bringing back the dead so they can tell us will be the real hard part. lol j/k
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
Stevennix2001,

While I don't agree with everything in your comments (no two agree on everything regardless), I believe you've made some of the best comments offered on this thread so-far!
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hey thanks man. i really do appreciate that.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Yep, the most recent one
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's soooo cute! Can I pinch your cheeks please.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, I would love you to do so
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Eyes sensitive to flash?
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Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago

I checked out the scientific credentials for Kent Hovind, the 'scientist' who produced that pearl of wisdom - he has no science background to speak of, and knows as much about physics as I know about cake decorating.

He is also serving ten years in prison for tax evasion

A very credible source, indeed.

Edit: Past 3am here, so off to bed. Goodnight
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot to mention he beat 99% of evoluntionist he ever debated all over the world.
  fyi darwin didn't have any science degree
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  fyi no kidding. He was studying theology.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Beat as in he hurt them or beat as in he won them over, or what?
  
  So in other words, out of 100 debates with evolutionist 1 was not. Way to emphasis his credentials.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus did not have a theology degree.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know a bit about Hovind too! I'll go with the 1%
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Am I the only one imagining Sufi decorating 100 cakes? It's a pretty sloppy kitchen
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now that you have bought it up I can see that too!
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is wrong with my cake decorating? - look at this work of art:
  
  I am especially proud of the imitation dog turds. Kind of blows Montgomery and his cup cakes out of the water.
  
  Image courtesy of: http://parmieuxadventures.blogspot.com/ … was-i.html
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ron isn't going to like this.LOL
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Actually on my books tax evasion is a plus to credibility
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
No, too much dope
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is no such thing as too much dope!
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  he-he, just kidding. I guess my kid just caught me off-guard.
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
LOLOLOLOLOL.
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps this guy should be leading the argument against evolution ... I'd be more willing to listen to him ...
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYMuhN7OZgM
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love the video, boy his ass gets it said!
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He's my new poster child. Whenever such debates get me all riled up I have a meeting with my good pastor and then I feel much better.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Billy Graham of bums!
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now, THIS is a preacher I can get behind.
  
  Wait... no...
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, it is best not to stand too close when he is airing out his beliefs ...
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  His Mighty Wind is blowing
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The winds of change should not smell like that should they?
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  'He shall smear a stain on the non-believers as he bellows with a mighty roar. The Carpathians tremble in fear at such a diminutive pastor, for they know the power his creator has given him to unleash upon the world ... a power that will easily cause all who dare approach with pride to fall to their knees in prayer.'
  
  Gasonomy 9:11
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  RAmen
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well fall to their knees anyway!
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Lisa HWposted 15 years ago
There is no proof that there is a God. That's why they call it "faith". At the same time nobody on Earth can prove that there is not one.

Still, there is a preponderance of evidence that the concept of evolution is correct. I, personally, don't think that if people are just thinking of "natural selection" that tells the whole story, because there is such a thing as adaptation. I think the biggest problem with people "believing" evolution is their not understanding it sufficiently; or else fear of not believing what they've always believed. Evolution doesn't have to mean there's no God. In fact, if people want to really stretch their minds it doesn't even have to mean there wasn't an Adam and Eve - but only that they may have existed in some other universe or dimension; and somehow. Maybe it would make literal-Bible-believers feel better if they thought "the world" or "mankind" in the Bible meant "all of life, Heaven, and the Universe", rather than just Planet Earth. The idea that some life-starting "material" came to Earth from the Cosmos isn't at all far-fetched (although there IS "far-fetched" and "really, really, far-fetched").

In any case, I don't think religious people should be so afraid to consider the preponderance of scientific evidence or of science in general; because if there is a God it was most likely He who gave human beings the intelligence and drive to pursue scientific understanding of this Earthly world. The right religion can have its role in guiding people toward right from wrong or faith, but I don't think its role it to try to thwart and dispute the increased understanding of life on Earth that has come thousands of years after man first started pondering it.

The right science does not state unequivocally that there can be no Creator, and the right religion would, at least in theory, not state unequivocally that "all of science", particularly the evidence that supports evolution, cannot possibly be right. As I've said in another post, the Big Picture is like a puzzle that needs the right pieces put in place and that can never be entirely completed while we're here. If we're ever to have even an almost complete picture of "The Truth" (at least while we're living on Earth), those puzzle pieces can't be made from any information other than that which we can see and prove - not that which we "just choose to believe" or which someone else says we should believe. We are free to believe what we want or who want, but we can't expect the rest of the world, which seeks a truth that is right for all, to include puzzle pieces that don't fit into the puzzle that most want properly completed with "puzzles pieces made only of truth".
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again I feel compelled to say this is a reasonable and reasoned post. Nice Lisa.
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Lisa! I just posted your avatar on my wall.
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Lisa HWposted 15 years ago
Ernest and Yoshi, thanks. The quest for the truth goes on for most of us - although after the last couple of long posts I've made, I think I'll turn my thoughts to the frivolous for the rest of the night.
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ah yes ... madness is the ruler of the night as reasoning is the ruler of the day.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you deserve a break.
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
Just for interest, for those who might be interested in it, I'm pasting Gallup poll statistics in regard to evolutionist and creationist views that have been done intermittantly over a 22-year period. As far as the general public goes in the U.S., the numbers have held almost exactly the same in a more-than 2-decade period.

(After each category, the numbers for the specific years are listed.)

God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. (Creationist view)

1982-JUL 44%
1993-JUN 47
1997-NOV 44
1999-AUG 47
2001-FEB 45
2004-NOV 45

Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man's creation. (Theistic evolution) <<<{Darwin's expressed view}

1982-JUL 38%
1993-JUN 35
1997-NOV 39
1999-AUG 40
2001-FEB 37
2004-NOV 38

Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. God had no part in this process. (Naturalistic Evolution)

1982-JUL 9%
1993-JUN 11
1997-NOV 10
1999-AUG 9
2001-FEB 12
2004-NOV 13
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1. 60
  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This explains how George Bush got elected president!
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73
earnestshubposted 15 years ago
That would go a long way to understanding why the world is like it is!
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70
Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Well, that sounds about right.

Religion has had 3000+ years practice and that proves they are getting efficient at baffling people.

Thanks.
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69
wyanjenposted 15 years ago
Peer pressure?

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1. 70
  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
You're welcome, glad to accommodate!
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0
JimLowposted 15 years ago
Peer pressure for evolutionists or the others?
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Maybe mob pressure, as in a mob of sheep.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
And he almost got enough votes!
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1. 70
  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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2. 60
  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Earnest! From a fellow "smoffer."
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3. 69
  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO
  
  hey this is religion not politics. we don't want things to get ugly
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4. 59
  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I literally laughed out loud. You're awesome earnest!
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Hey earnestshub and everyone,

I'm in the answer a question with a question forum, come have some fun?

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1. 73
  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm in!
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JimLowposted 15 years ago
It may explain how Obama was elected too, since he professes belief in a supreme being. In fact so did Bill Clinton.
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1. 60
  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does this mean you voted for Obama too? Of course I'm assuming you voted for Bush, am I wrong?
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2. 69
  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  why assume that atheists are democrats?
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  59
  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't... Rational people exist on both sides of the bar (religious/non-religious, republican/democrat). Watch out for the brain-washed extremes!
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  70
  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Brain-washing....something less harmful than waterboarding.
  
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  59
  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I just loled again! Now that the originator is gone (I think I got her banned...) I like this thread!
  
  What a good answer .
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  69
  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have noticed it's peaceful in here this evening
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
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