Why does religion cause such anger and hostility.

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Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years ago
I am not long doing the Hub thang, i think there are some really cool, intelligent, original and one of a kind people in this little community. Everyone here has good input and views but why is that religion brings out so much hostility and turns these cool people against each other.

Can people believe what they want to believe in or choose not to believe in, can't people respect everyone's right to their own personal beliefs with out belittling them or attacking them.

I am a Catholic, that me, but whatever anyone else is or is not into is totally fine with me, as long as its not hurting anyone.

I just want to see what everyone thinks? Thanks for taking the time to look at this.
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  Freedoms Roarposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can only say that like many...allowing everyone to have their own beliefs is fine. However, that is NEVER where it stays. Religions and religious people are similar to a ‘virus’...they grow uncontrolled and have complete disregard for whom or what they infect or destroy.
  
  History teaches us that religion forms the basis for hate and destruction. This doesn’t mean that all people who are ‘believers’ are destructive...it does mean however, that religion can and does provides a catalysis for ‘troubled’ individuals and destructive behavior.
  
  I sadly refer you to the destruction of yesterday at Fort Hood.
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  Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So therefore angry people who feel they have God on their side fighting some supposed cause, can do as they feel against non-believers or whatever,because they believe they have God(a God) with them?
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  Freedoms Roarposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Iraq, Iran...Fort Hood. What is the central theme?
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  Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ya i do agree with you but if it wasn't religion wouldn't it be something else?
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pissed off people with GUNS?
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  War kills in many different ways?
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With a long range weapon or suicide bomber
  Wicked mind is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether your stowaway's son or BBC 1
  Dis-information is a weapon of mass destruc
  
  You could a caucasian or a poor asian
  Racism is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether inflation or globalisation
  Fear is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  My dad came into my room holdin his hat
  I knew he was leavin, he sat on my bed told me some facts son
  
  I have a duty, callin on me
  You and your sister be brave my little soldier, and don't forget all i told ya
  Your the mister of the house now remember this
  And when you wake up in the morning give ya momma a kiss, then I had to say goodbye
  
  In the morning i woke momma with a kiss on each eyelid,
  Even though im only a kid, certain things can't be hid
  Momma grabbed me, held me like i was made of gold, but left her in the story untold
  I said, momma it will be allright, when daddy comes home, tonight
  
  With a long range weapon or suicide bomber
  Wicked mind is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether your stowaway's son or BBC 1
  Dis-information is a weapon of mass destruc
  
  You could a caucasian or a poor asian
  Racism is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether inflation or globalisation
  Fear is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether Haliburton, Enron or anyone
  Greed is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  We need to find courage, overcome
  Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction
  Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction
  Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  My story stops here, lets be clear
  this scenario is happenin everywhere
  and you ain't goin to nirvana or favana
  You comin right back here to live out your karma
  with even more drama than previously, seriously
  Just how many centuries have we been waiting for someone else to make us free
  And we refuse to sleep, the people overseas are just like we
  Mad leadership, amigos, unfettered and free
  They feed one the people theyre supposed to lead, i dont need it
  We need to pray away, for the lord to make it all straight
  Its only now we do it right, cos I don't want my daddy, leavin home tonight
  
  With a long range weapon or suicide bomber
  Wicked mind is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether your stowaway's son or BBC 1
  Dis-information is a weapon of mass destruc
  
  You could a caucasian or a poor asian
  Racism is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether inflation or globalisation
  Fear is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  Whether Haliburton, Enron or anyone
  Greed is a weapon of mass destruction
  
  We need to find courage, overcome
  Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction
  Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction
  Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Places the US Army shouldn't be?
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i think it is more about belief system and identity. Identity is about the foundations of a person. When there is a crisism of the belief... whether believer or not... it is taken as a personal critism - the identity. Each individual, therefore, feels it personal. Does that make sense?
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  dana17posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, this is my whole take on it... because the Bible is left to interpretation... believers of all doctrins believe they know the "Right" way to get to heaven. So, as a result they wind up judging each other in the name of salvation... the really sad part is that judging is judging... none of it gets you into heaven or anywhere else semi-good.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you Lloyd. The fundamental problem is the brand of Christians who don't agree with you. They post threads on the forums proclaiming the truth of their particular religion, and that everyone who doesn't believe in it is going to Hell, or is an idiot, or deranged,or an agent of the devil.
  
  That is not passionate faith, that is bigotry. It's deeply rude and offensive to the people they're insulting, so it's not surprising if people bite back.
  
  What's sad is that those threads have made the atmosphere so charged, even a reasonable expression of Christian belief can be jumped on. There are two or three Hubbers who are normally sane, reasonable people, who seem to have developed a Pavlov's response to any mention of God.
  
  That's a shame, because it was certainly a bunch of closed-minded religious bigots who started all the ruckus in the religious forums, but there are a few non-believers who are preventing the more enlightened Christians from having meaningful debates.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because it's important.
  Some things are worth fighting over, just as some things are worth fighting for.
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  speaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The main reason is because. Religious beliefs are something that people are very passionate about, more so than almost anything else. When someone says that what they believe is wrong or a waste of time. It brings out that passion.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like Politics. sigh.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
  
  The bible is separatist. Not hard to understand.
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  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, it's actually somewhat beyond me. I actually thought religion with a big 'R' was somewhat passe in most Western countries...except maybe in the Bible Belt or through down winds coming out of Alaska in America.
  
  I think most of these religious discussions on the forums...which are of a very low level, mudslinging variety, and hardly ever of a philosophical or comparative nature...are testimony to the democratization of internet publishing. What is depressing is how lacking in tolerance and education, frankly, you realize most people really still are.
  
  Of course the fundamentalists of any religion are scary as hell, and I wouldn't want any of them near any policy decision or button I know of. But to divide the line between "Believers" and "Non-Beleivers" is just as scary and almost as fundamentalist. Then you have what I would call your 'Freshman Atheist,' usually people...some very young, some not...who have thrown (supposedly) all religious tradition and culture to the wind, perhaps somewhat because "isn't that cool (?)", who have basically found a new religion. Or at least a new way of proselytizing, lol, which is every bit as bad as what most moderate people dislike about the rampant Christianists.
  
  On a good day, looking at all this is laughable. On a bad day...I dunno...it makes you glad you have all that student loan debt, lol (spoken like a member of the American middle class, whose culture was formatted partially on religious tolerance by others, long ago, with a Calvinistic work ethic thrown in).
  
  Hey, Mr. Christmas: This is one of the reasons we celebrate your favorite holiday. It's all about lighting the darkness, .
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  Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, great post Lita and thanks for the corrections ,yes lighting the darkness in "The Season of Good Will".
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I think the same as you. I TRY to be spiritual.. very hard mind you, but at the end of the day... judging others can't be a good thing, can it? I like to work in the realms of ... first do no harm. Wishing you well, my friend. x
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  child of christposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THE REASON RELIGION IS THE CAUSE, THAT IS BECAUSE re-ligion means real devils ligion means devil
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  Janondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Until 2000 I was involved deeply with a religion. When my church, along with other, mainly Christian, churches, combined forces to gang up on the gay community, I questioned why. Last year when their efforts against the gay community increased, I not only became angry at organized religion, but I became an ally and activist for the GLBT community. I wrote a book which I titled The Spell of Religion and the Battle Over Gay marriage which chronicles my exit out of my church for what I believe are unholy and un-Christ-like practices of discrimination. Does that answer your question?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And why would they do that?
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Worthy of applause. Well done that you upheld your truth amid a very strong adversary - organized religion.
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  Rhianni32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Why does religion cause such anger and hostility?"
  
  Because too many people need validation in their beliefs via others agreeing with them. The more people believe in what you believe in obviously means you are right.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If your belief is based on no facts, then it is you who are doing wrong and destroying your own nature of life.
  
  If you have any religious beliefs whatsoever, you are in essence saying, that you do not understand your life.
  
  A belief doesn't need to be reinforced, because usually beliefs are based on factual knowledge and understanding of that knowledge, and what reality truly is.
  
  If you form a belief based on no facts- you make a huge assumption, without any real knowledge or understanding about what you belief or how to form a belief.
  
  That is wrong.
  
  If you need to confirm your belief to yourself, then your beliefs are weak to begin with and have no ground or foundation for existing.
  
  Meaning, the belief is fake.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Says you.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Says, science.
  
  Says, philosophy.
  
  Says, reality.
  
  Says, logic and reason.
  
  Says, rational and sanity.
  
  If you don't agree- then you are irrational and don't understand your own existence.
  
  Says, ME!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're not the boss of me!!!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're right about that. And, wouldn't want to be.
  
  I have enough do as it is.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, now that is a hurtful statement.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How is that hurtful?
  
  What? Because I want you to accept full responsibility for your own life.
  
  I figured I would be doing you a favor and not trying to control you.
  
  But, hey- if you like living your life under someone else's control. So be it.
  
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're not married are you?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Marriage is for sheep who need self-assurance that their life matters to someone else and a religious doctrine.
  
  Marriage is for suckers and an illusionary religious attempt to give life more meaning.
  
  LOVE has nothing to do with marriage. If you LOVE your partner, marriage isn't a requirement.
  
  As for the supposed benefits you receive from being married is just a government system of control to reinforce religious doctrines.
  
  So, what next?
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're making me cry. Oh, boy you have an answer for everything don't you? See? I am a beneficent being as I chose to ignore the obvious malicious taunt.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A St. Bernard! I like it!
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  vrajavalaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely. Everyone has free choice about their beliefs, as long as that person's belief does not killing the infidel. Some peole wonder why I take a harsh view of allowing Muslims to get way with so much nonsense in the name of political correctness. Possibly, it's because I've listed to some ex-terrorists, like Walid Shoebat, who say that it is the Quran's teaching to conquer the world and convert, or kill the infidels.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not that I am a supporter of any violence or advocate it but I remember something from my course that has stuck with me....
  
  One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
  
  As I said, everything is a matter of perspect... this is my truth, tell me yours x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You sure you want to go down this particular road?
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Baaaaaa...no.. this would be suicidex
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I didn't mean to be nosy, but language like the above is scary at best.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It just highlights perspective and belief system. Im not going down the righteous road of dictating - I just believe in love (well, I do live in Glastonbury! The land of happy hippies!) x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, cheesecake, no. I'm not saying you're being righteous. I was saying that in this day and age, extremism is impossible to talk to. No offense intended towards you
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, we live in a world of paranoia - shame but true. It would be lovely if we could all just love each other and get on.
  
  Can I tell you a story? I went on holiday to Egypt. There were police with guns outside the hotel. I talked to them. They said..
  
  "We HATE Denmark (or Sweden, cant remember)". There was great hostility over the cartoon drawing in the paper re: Mohammed up in the clouds with God, Jesus etc - do you remember? Anyway, this was highlighted in their papers creating a whirlwind of emotion. They, like us, believed in their media. I said "Who actually published this cartoon?" he listed... editor, journalist..etc. I asked him how many people had instigated this emotion. He came up with 9 individuals. I highlighted, how little that was out of a population. Suddenly he realised. It wasnt about condeming a population but a very tiny amount of irresponsible people who took a joke too far.
  
  Through this short discussion. He had learned the power of the media, both Egyptian and western world. He had learned not to condemn a group of people who had no responsibility to the act itself. It didn't take much to change a view of a single person and, who knows how much he had learned spilled out to this friends and family?
  
  You see, it is all a matter of perspective.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I completely agree. Great story, by the way, thanks. If the peoples of the world relied less on second-hand information and really got to know others not like themselves, they would see just like themselves they really are. Happy Hippies, huh?
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A happy hippy in my heart... I dont each sheep! Am partial to a bit of chicken, bacon and fish though. There is more protein in this - grass can be a bit boring, don't you think? lol x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a recovering grass addict
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Neil quote... 'heavy, heavy, heavy.... man!(the Young Ones) x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I loved that show! Vivian was my favorite(those stars on his head were outrageous)
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Vivian... mindless violence! LOL Do you remember the episode 'Sick'.... omg.. hilarious! What about University Challenge??... and the one where one of them.. cant remember the character name.. but he killed Neil and ran around shouting 'OMG.. Ive killed a hippy!' lmfao just thinking about it!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I remember the University Challenge and the one where the missile landed in their dorm and Vivian was hitting it with a hammer!
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh god, yer! Going a bit off topic now though. No one here will know what we are talking about... think we eating the cud again x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've been getting Off Topic alot lately. Seems as though every other thread is about Politics or Religion(hmmmph)...
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well.. someone needed to liven this one up a bit! hehehe
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come on Deanno.. you know you just want love, peace and harmony! Lets go in the field and do a bit of roaming!x
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, that's the point I've been driving at the whole time and SHE makes it stand out with her statement.
  
  One person perceptive is a matter opinion to others in their eyes. This is the truth.
  
  How you perceived something, without knowledge and understanding of life, is based on a false perception.
  
  What you think you know? Is skewed by what you believe to be true. If something is true, just because you don't perceive it to be true, doesn't make it untrue. It remains truth, it is you who is wrong.
  
  Our "LIFE" is all about purpose, living and the effort we put forth into knowing and understanding, both our objective reality and ourselfs. This creates openness for all possibilities.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  *spins around and dances* singing 'life is for living!*
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a Catholic also, and I feel the same as you.
  
  However, behind all the anger and hostility shown here on Hubpages, are individuals passionate about their point of view, and greatly fear the unknown. Sad really.
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  Mrs.Nitaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know I've often asked myself the same question, but that's the issue. Religion is man made. For those of us who believe in God, God is concerned with our worship. God loves worshippers. In the New Testament, Jesus tells us how to pray, to take care of the widows, orphans, and prisoners. People get so caught up with being politically correct that they make living a holy life so hard. It's way more simple than we wish to believe. One day I was talking to God about personal issues and when I read my bible God spoke to me letting me know that no matter how far I go, it's never to far for Him to reach me. We need to focus more on our relationship with God and less on judging others for what they do or don't believe.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Lloyd, the more you come to these forums I think you will see that there are some friendly healthy discussions between people with different religions as well as between people within different denominations. That is as long as the people that do not belong to a religion allow those discussions to happen without trying to attack them. Not long ago there were more friendly healthy discussions in here than what there are now. I'm sure you will eventually realize this question that you ask should mostly be directed to those people that come into these forums that do not belong to a religion seeing they seem to be those ones that are preventing friendly healthy discussions in here. But I'm sure you have already seen this within this thread.
  
  "Can people believe what they want to believe in or choose not to believe in, can't people respect everyone's right to their own personal beliefs with out belittling them or attacking them"?
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  CollegeSpecialposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  FROM COLLEGE SPECIAL
  
  First of all Welcome a board. I hope you enjoy Hub Pages. I do.
  
  People are afraid of what they do not understand. I am a Southern Baptist. We take our religion very seriously and follow doctrines. I learned early in life there are two things never to discuss: Religion and Politics. I try my best to let them both be debated by others.
  
  Religion should be a private thing between you and your higher power. What you believe should not be public or debatable. I do not care what religion you are you are still a person and I respect you for that. If I am your friend I do not look at your color, ethnicity,gender, religion or political believe. I want to get to know the person.
  
  Everyone has freedom of religion. Freedom of speech. You are free to believe in what you choose, although, some people think it is wrong. Sometimes it is fear, sometimes it is just ignorance on that other persons perspective. Live you life the way you choose and do not worry about what others think or believe in.
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
Because they're afraid of it.
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Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years ago
I don't know it just doesn't make sense to me, its kinda like when you have two friends that you think are great but that hate each other.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, there could be alteria motives here.. jelousy for example.. some freakish link to some other experience. Life is a bit of a lottery really. Just do everything you can with good intentions x
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elayne001posted 14 years ago
I agree with you. For the short time I have been here, I have learned that the forums can be a hostile place, especially regarding religion, so I avoid that topic. I guess if you say something they do not agree with, they think they have the right to belittle you. What happened to free speech and religious freedom? There are some great hubbers who have even warned me not to say anything back because it will only cause trouble. Come on people, lighten up and allow others the same freedoms you enjoy.
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Religion is all about man made traditions /rules and hierachy.

Christianity is not ,or at least not the Christ like examples Jesus set and instructed of his followers.
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  myra636posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for this it is one of the trust thought I have seen on the forums.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The bottomline CORE to all religions and occult disciplines are to make one search for truth from the inner-self. To become one with yourself, so true consciousness can be obtained.
  
  When you break through to enlightenment-consciousness, it is like being re-born, per se, and you see life in a totally new perspective.
  
  The old-traditional 'religions', ones that are centuries old are out-of-date and shouldn't exist, because consciousness is already widely known, but not accepted as it should be.
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
hi eaglekiwi, religion is the opium of the massess, according to Karl Marx.... It is the biggest business in the world.
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  TimTurnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I had a directory assistance job at one of the largest companies for that and with every incoming call, there were four categories that every place was located under....residential, government, business and state.
  
  All churches were under "businesses."
  
  Churches are big business
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah well who cares what Karl Marx had to say seeing the political system that he spawned is responsible for close to 100 million deaths in the 20th century mainly because those that died held to their religious belief.
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
@ Lloyd

I don't really get it either. But the people who are really hating any religion are practically foaming in the mouth. There is the perception that here in the US that the fundamentalists are just about to take over. But I see this hostility from people even in countries where they don't have a lot of evangelicals. Of course, it seems to be only Christian religions. I really don't see them mocking Islam. On the other hand there might be consequences if you mock Islam.
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rhamsonposted 14 years ago
Because their egos demand they be right.
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  kverdasmithposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have to agree that the ego is the problem.
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
I don't really think its religion that causes the issue but the racism, bigotry and hate that its used to cover. Most of the arguing I partake in really has nothing to do with God, but an attitude of placing blame on one group or another and then justifying it with words and holy books. The heart of the matter is some people want to justify how the dislike another any way they can.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So true.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, agreed. And if people can't use religion as a hook to hang their bigotry on, they'll find something else (extremist politics and football hooliganism being two examples that spring immediately to mind). Religion per se doesn't cause bigotry, it's just a handy conduit for people who are already bigoted.
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN, MY BROTHER! Power, Control, Fear, and Hate. That's how Religions operate. All religions. They are all cults used by the lowest of human beings to act out the hate of their fellow man using the word of God to control them with fear and hate. God is love. God is not in them.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
The idiot liberals have a conscious problem and rather than deal with their short-comings they feel it neccesary to attack those who choose morality over immorality. They don't want to live with the guilt associated with their behaviors. So if they can insult or legislate their way to their version of social justice to clear their conscious they will. The religious just aren't having none it and we're what stands in their way.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My point exactly
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are probably going to have to explain that.
  
  Irony does not work well on true believers.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The irony is too sweet it made me gag.
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Puking myself.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a picture just for you Evolution Guy
  
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have requested a hub from evolution guy... he has never published a hub... Would you publish a hub about Athiesism and why there is no belief system
  please touch on Darwinism and how to disprove the theory of the soul.
  Maybe in a hub, his rants might teach us something. Im open to change!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I think I can try to disspell or disprove the theory of a soul.
  
  If you simply eliminate religion and every piece of religious text- what the definition of a soul would be? You wouldn't find an answer, because it wouldn't exist, because religion wouldn't exist.
  
  A person doesn't have a soul. The word soul and spirit are religous terminology. Science hasn't proven a person actually has soul or spirit, so in reality- these things don't exists.
  
  Reality exists free of independent thoughts, desires, wills, or wishes. Reality is all knowable.
  
  Reality is defined by what you know and create ourselves.
  
  As an example: a cure for cancer. (in reality this doesn't exist). But, once the cure is found- it then becomes part of reality. Because, we know it exists.
  
  GOD doesn't exist in reality. Why? Because science hasn't proved that GOD exists.
  
  For those of you of the forum- I'm sure some of you will gladly attack 'science', such as Evolution.
  
  I'd really hate to burst your bubble- Evolution isn't a theory. It is a proven fact.
  
  A prime example: Mankind was NOT always a conscious being and the pure and simple fact that every being on the planet is now conscious of their own life- that would tell you that mankind is walking proof of evolution.
  
  Mankind didn't always have their consciousness, as we do today. Many millions of humans were guided by nature, living out their daily lives, completely unknowing that they are alive.
  
  When mankind's LEAP of the mind, from nature's guidance to consciousness- it was seen as evolution. Absolutely bound to happen at some point.
  
  So, let's try to keep the knowledge or information real. Please.
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can't really believe this?
  
  When, where, why, and how did
  
  a. Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
  b. Single-celled animals evolve?
  c. Fish change to amphibians?
  d. Amphibians change to reptiles?
  e. Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)
  How did the intermediate forms live?
  
  Show me facts!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have seen the facts, ad nauseum! You just don't want to know!
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  GO TO SCHOOL!
  
  Damn, I would of thought that you would eventually figure that out.
  
  Why are you asking me? Where they come from isn't relevant. They are life-forms and you can leave it at that.
  
  Again, you have questions that are irrelevant or need not be ever answered.
  
  Move on, but keep it real.
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Went to school was taught evolution through lies in my textbooks(Deceptive drawing and restorations of “ape-men”, Haeckel’s embryos, peppered moth, Lucy) After college I started to think for myself and through research I can conclude Evolution(Cosmic, Chemical, Stellar and planetary, Organic, and Macro) are all religious. They existed in the minds of those who want evade the Creator. If you can show me proof, not interpretations of facts I’d be willing to listen.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again, I take it you didn't read my post.
  
  I told you the missing link to evolution, to make it fact. Yet, you didn't bother reading my post.
  
  It wasn't an interpretation of a belief of someone else. Evolution is based on science(is what humans base facts on) and philosophy combined.
  
  Science itself doesn't prove Evolution without philosophy.
  
  Philosophy is the reason science works as well as it does.
  
  Humans were NOT always conscious individuals. Humans walked around NOT knowing that they lived, guided by nature like animals.
  
  Evolution is proved, because mankind didn't develop consciousness on it's own, it happened as the human races grew in complexity. The mind was forced to evolve to consciousness, so as to better deal with the complexity of society and the changes that were occurring.
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  Rick Marlowposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What always amazed me about evolution was new discoveries of bone fragments.Researchers in the desert can find a tooth and from that tooth draw a whole supposed creature.Then create all the scenarios of how it lived it`s life and what it ate ect.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is because science knows quite a lot from previous information from whole fossils and other bones and teeth found over hundreds of years.Individual finds are not always right, but that is not the point. They must confront scientific method and all that went before, unlike biblical beliefs which have only one source.
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  Rick Marlowposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Earnest,How are you? I suspected there was some method used.I just wondered how they came to some of their conclusions,especially in their artwork.
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The fact is fossils exist, both evolutionist and creationist have interpretations of that fact, Why do evolutionist try to erase the line?
  
  The bible has been put through more scrutiny then any other text ever! With over 25,000 evidences to back it up, not including prophesies and it still stands if even other classic text went through the same scrutiny we would have any of the classics.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your sheep mind is strong with faith. Faith can't be proven wrong. Logic can.
  
  Keep the faith!
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Weak! So can do better than that use that mind you claim you have.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You arern't worthy of a thoughtful response when you refuse to think.
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are so weak minded, what a hypocrite!
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Please tell me you are at least intelligent enough to understand the difference between the bible and other "classic texts" that do not claim to be the word of an invisible super being? No? Sheesh...........
  
  The bible has withstood absolutely no scrutiny as far as it's divine claims go.
  
  Sorry your beliefs have been proven to be utter garbage. You must be very angry.
  
  No need to attack people who do not believe the garbage you are so scared that you believe.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I saw that at least one of your hubs is on your personal experiences, but I think that your confronting the lack of evidence from darwinists as you conveyed above would make a great hub. Perhaps you've done it and I missed it.
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The soul isn't some religious mythical word. It's just a word to describe that which is our personality, our characters. The soul = psyche in Greek literature. Psyche = thoughts and the seat of emotions, passions and lower rational faculties.
  
  If we didn't have the soul, we'd be blobs. The soul = that which animates our consciousness. Widen the breadth of understanding of soul. It's not a religious term and is void of "godspeak."
  
  Just keeping the knowledge and information real here.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know you are very clever Cagsil, you could EASILY write a hub on this subject, the question was aimed at Evolution GUY! lol x
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry - missed this - yes - I will.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great, shall look forward to this! Can I say that I cracked your hub virginity? hehehe
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Shazwellyn,
  
  I realize, where your comment was directed, but since you didn't include one of his posts, as per, to what you were responding, I took your statement as meant for everyone.
  
  I thank you for the compliment that I could easily write a hub on the subject. I like your faith in my ability. It's greatly appreciated.
  
  With that said- Do you agree that Evolution is a FACT now, and not simply a theory, as I laid it out.
  
  Some people on the forums have given Evolution Guy many rude posts when he claim Evolution was indeed a fact.
  
  The problem many people don't realize is that evolution did actually take place and it was mankind who made the leap for automatic natural guidance to self-guidance conscious thought.
  
  That's EVOLUTION for mankind. The evolution of human consciousness is proof positive evolution is fact.
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  BannedMarine3posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a belief.
  
  It's proven by the research of science and medical evidence available about the how consciousness came to be in existence.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, I have an honours in psychology, one of my heros is Darwin (as well as Jane Goodhall) and YES I believe in Evolution. However, I also understand that we live in our own reality and each persons perspectives differ. This is my truth, tell me yours and as someone who tries to be objective - I am open to change as and when new evidence appears. I respect everyones views as, however slim, us monkeys can be wrong.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, reality is perceived by every individual differently, but objective reality is the world we live in. The perceived notion that mankind can not handle the responsibility of their own life is seen almost every day. The question is WHY?
  
  What drives the human to expand their own knowledge and understanding of their own reality and of life. Them NOT seeking real answers and looking at some mystical realm for answers, show the ignorance of some.
  
  I am of the understanding that LIFE is more than realized and has nothing to do with the spirituality of religious beliefs. I understand, the reason for religion to exist and have found the basis for it- the core of all religions and occult belief/disciplines are to force an individual into true consciousness, which I live each day.
  
  There are many aspects of life many people don't understand, but also at the same time, take for granted. For example: most people don't realize that they should be really living their live by their own internal guidance system, but refuse to accept full responsibility for their existence.
  
  The problems that exist in the world is because people do not understand the real truth about their life and that they have been lead astray by those who enjoy to gain power, glory, wealth or whatever else they want from them.
  
  It's absolutely ridiculous to understand life is simple, because it made to look overly complex, so people can be controlled. To see life for what it really is - all the matters.
  
  So, what's your take on what I say.
  
  The reason I've included religion in alot of what I said, was to stay on topic-
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK. Right. I believe in a balance of three - the mental or the mind, the body and the spirit. I believe that all evolve and change. The body has changed in accordance to Darwinism, the mind evolves in development, the spark of life (that electrical impulse that runs through us) the soul - we come, we live, we learn the lessons of that life, we may choose to come back and inhabit another body to live another life.
  
  To me, it is not enough to ponder upon life and its meaning, but to LIVE it! If we knew the spiritual dimension totally existed, then there would be no point in living.
  
  If you don't LIVE your life, it is EVIL. Notice the reverse message here? L I V E = E V I L. It is evil because anything that stops you from living a life is about stagnation, standing still and not developing onward. If you stagnate, you don't learn.
  
  I hope this gives you some understand in what I mean.
  
  I am a peaceful person, tolerant of all as I understand that we are all at our different points of progression. So no attacks please x
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're no mystery to me pal.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO ROFL
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not an immoral person. I just don't believe in God. I don't hide behind any religion to justify bigotry. I also don't call those who disagree with me idiots.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you read any of the post's written by your liberal buddies in this forum?
  
  Sincerly Sheep.
  
  PS- if you support abortion, gay marraige, Robin Hood laws or peace with terrorists your morality must be questioned. You're right about liberal bigotry, liberals do lay it out in plain sight for all to see.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Translation: If you think women should be able to decide what to do with their own bodies, respect love no matter what form it takes, or realize that not every muslim in the world is out to kill you...you are WRONG and you are going to HELL!
  
  Glad you cleared that up for us you reactionary, insular, bible-thumping enemy of sanity and reason.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe anybodies going to hell unless they really want to. Do you want to? Oh yeah, who speaks for the innocent?
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since I don't believe in it, my wanting to or not has nothing to do with it.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And if you are referring to this comment I was commenting on what you have said about Muslims and others in the past.
  
  So...it's okay for you to call liberals idiots but when we kick back we are bullies?
  
  Anyway, I definitely won't be commenting in the religions threads anymore, I'm not a fan of banging my head against the wall.
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
The central theme of all violence and killings are self centeredness and the hunger for power--to control, show off, meaning they are all insecure..lack attention....
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  EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agree with everything you've said, plus there's an extra thing IMO: a sense of entitlement and a belief that the end justifies the means.
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  correct
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Religion causes anger and hostility, When Christians say that we Atheists are doomed to Hell, either we want it or not, either we believe or not, stating that their's the truth ,despite what we choose to believe.
That we are sinners, even we don't believe.
And being so arrogant as saying we are poor lost people and that they are so kind and loving that they have to pray for us.
I personaly think that's rude and offensive, so I reply accordingly.
Why should I accept that ridiculous point of view?
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  Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ya Tantrum, i have noticed that and i do agree with ya i have to say, you have a mind the same as everyone else and who really knows who is right at the end of the day.
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  Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. I am a Christian, but if you are not, does that mean I'm suppose to judge you, NO! I know Atheist who love bigger and have hearts of gold & could run circles around a holier than thou bible bangers who believe its "their way or they highway", I don't live my life that way. My choice to believe is my choice and the last thing I choose to do is shove it down someone's throat. Live and let live.
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  jenblacksheepposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I completely agree. I hate it when people tell me they're gna pray for me. They know I'm an atheist, why would it comfort me to know they are gna pray. I find it very very offensive.
  
  That aside, I think that the problem is that neither side can prove their position beyond doubt. Noone can show that they're right, no matter how sure they feel about their position. That is why believers have 'faith'; you wouldn't have faith in something that was a certainty.
  
  When people can't prove that they are right they become frustrated and that's when the arguments become personal. Believers and non-believers are equally guilty of this. And also when you trust in your view that strongly, it's very difficult to see the other point of view.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, the truth about life gets lost in all the bickering and insults.
  
  If you rationally look at life, and understand Life's meaning, then you are good to go.
  
  If you inject 'religious' beliefs into your life, it defeats the nature of Life.
  
  I am a student of life. I share knowledge I have and gain knowledge from other by learning their response to my expression.
  
  A belief system has to be formed on the basis of reality. Anything outside of what's real is against your nature as a man or woman. Anything outside of what's real is not in existence, so why try to bring it into reality.
  
  Mythology and mysticism were denounced as stories or illusions.
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  jenblacksheepposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, a Christian or any God-believer would say that God created the universe and the world and humanity etc and that that is the basis of reality. My point was just that once you reach an impass like that when two people have contradicting views then an argument or debate is only going to end with personal insults and remarks.
  
  I do agree with what you're saying about life and reality though. I wrote a hub about my views on meaning of life and tried to start from what we can observe in reality, and nothing outside of that.
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
I like when people pray for me. I do so many things that can be considered sinful. I figure any praying can give me room to do more.
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  <snipped - no personal attacks>
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wondered how long it would be before you came on the scene.. come on babes... bring it on! lol x
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a good way to look at it!
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Rick Marlowposted 14 years ago
I personally don`t see or encounter other people in the real world that act like people do in these forums.People tend to be more reserved when you`re talking face to face.If We concider another to be a troublemaker in real life,we generally shun them,at least I do.Maybe it`s the anonimity in the forums that attracts the agressive and uncouth.I believe for some it gives a sense of power over another to force themselves and their beliefs on others. As you will note,the same ones go from post to post and regardless of topic,push the issue to the same direction over and over and over.Just a guess!
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  in person you might not want to argue with a person bigger than you are LOL, but when you are in front of the computer, you can say whatever you want to say? is that so?
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  very good. That is one aspect, i guess. good one mate!
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i have come across people who attack - dont know why, they have preconceived ideas, i guess. Oh well... nevermind x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is something to correct in the masses of people as the thought goes...
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
You learn after a while that the same people come on here to argue, just because they want to argue, it is done in the name of religion, but nothing really religious about it. As wars are fought in the name of religion, but bobviously are anti religion.....
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Jewelsposted 14 years ago
Seems to be an over abundance of force when it comes to religion. People don't seem to be allowed to BE who they are or what they stand for. Someone wants to come along and change your status quo because what they think and believe is somehow better for you.

Perhaps the art of giving took a crooked road when the giving turned out to be persuasion. Righteousness is subjective and who gives one person permission to change the lives of another, in the name of opinion disguised as 'God's will.'

Religion is an opiate and when people wake up from the drunken stupor they usually get pissed off.
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  atilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are describing Democrats.
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not the Republicans? Perhaps it's a matter of opinion!
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Rayalternatelyposted 14 years ago
Religion is used as an excuse for people to do far worse things than be hateful to each other in these forums. If all this vileness could be channelled into a few forum threads that the rest of us could ignore, the world would be a much happier, and safer place.

To clarify, before all the hate mail floods in, that is using religion as an excuse for this behaviour, not whatever your religion may or not be. We are all of course free to believe or disbelieve whatever we think is right.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Sooner or later, people must start to realize the underlying problem to their life.

People continue to live their life, thinking that they know what is best and they really don't.

I find that scary.

It's almost shameful. It's very disappointing.

I mean, the evidence about 'god' was blown out of the water, when Aristotle re-defined "What is Reality?".

The 'god' concept was debunked as a myth.

The simple fact that people refuse to accept science and philosophy for answers about Life, just shows a misunderstanding about Life in general.

If I can make even a little bit of an impact on some people, then maybe I can bring back to reality, instead of them wasting their life on something to never come.

I understand life on a different level, because I was a religion follower for a number of years, then I decided to dig deeper and broke through the hoax. I came to a self-realization that people are afraid of themselves.

They can't imagine themselves guiding their own life, because they think they are not worthy to carry that burden. Which defeats any meaningful reasoning or knowledge known about life.

In essence- religion is destroying life, because people feel like they have to be servant of 'god' otherwise damnation. They live in fear and by someone else's authority, when in FACT they should be self-responsible for every thought and action, and answer to only their conscience.

I find it very easy to live. It's refreshing to be in control. The pressure religion puts on you burdens you from living life. And, I realize that now.

I know you have your beliefs, I'm just to explain my position. I have no religious affiliations anymore and haven't for several years now.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
It's interesting to see your guilty conscious betrays you my liberal friends. The only way you can rationalize your behavior is if "everyone does it!" Well everyone doesn't and if your attitudes and behaviors are immoral they're immoral, period.

For the record, I really don't care what self-righteous Christians or liberals think, you make your own peace with God. I have on patients for Christians or liberals who tell people how they should believe. I have never said anyone is going to hell, in fact I believe everyone is going to heaven barring the most evil.(hitler stalin, mao, gacey etc.) I have never once quoted scripture and I won't.

I personally am worried about the direction we're going as a country and as a sociaty. All great civilizations collapsed when they forgot that we have rules for a reason and families sustain civilization. the case in point is the settling of the western US wasn't done by guns it was women and families. It's too bad the enlightened progressives never learned, "if we don't learn the lessons history teaches we're doomed to make the same mistakes." Now thats an "irony" for you.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
The truth about life does get lost in the bickering.
When you reject the existence of the creator it cripples the nature of life
When we trust our belief and/or non-belief too strongly we can not hear any logic other than our own, and then frustration is inevitable for both sides of the issue.

It is my understanding that there are few ancient (OT)text available that have not been re-constructed. This adds to our delimma.
Why, we ask, are there so few ancient writings that the dates of origin are verifiable? I have my views.
In 135 AD, after the last Jewish rebelion was put down,Hadrian immediately began evacuating the population of Jerusalem. He held an official ceremony burning all of the Holy sacred scrolls during the dedication to his God Jupiter. Two statues were sat up on the site where the temple had once stood.One of Jupiter and another of Hadrian. It was common for a Roman Emperor to declare himself to be a God but as far as I know Hadrian was the only one to do it while standing on the temple grounds.
Any way all of the holy scrolls in Jerusalem were destroyed. And when Constantinople was taken many books in the library were destroyed. And again when the Holy Roman Empire was in control of the Holy Land any remaining documentation was gathered and taken back to Rome.
Little was left except for the books that were accepted by the church in the fourth century.
Had all of those books not been destroyed we would still be having these debates concerning the existence of God.
But believers would have a great deal more to substantiate ourselves with. There would be a whole lot more proof if the anti God movement had not destroyed it almost 1000 and 1900 years ago.
I believe that if we had that documentation there would not be so much debate.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you kidding....right?
  
  The creator? Where did you come up with that.
  
  Please, life exists without 'god' and if it wasn't for your man-made religion, YOU would believe what you believe. Because, it wouldn't exist.
  
  If man never made religion- you wouldn't think there was a 'god'. DUH! I figured you were smarter than that.
  
  Anything that cannot be explained by science and/or philosophy, is not part of reality.
  
  To think that something exists beyond reality or controls reality is absurd.
  
  I guess you think your life was pre-planned too? Wrong.
  
  Your life came to be because you had parents or at least a mother who gave birth to you.
  
  If you form an unfounded belief system based on mystical entities and bring it into reality, then you apparently don't have a clue about Life, in general.
  
  Your supposed 'god' apparently lives without time and space too. Since, he is all-powerful. He control time and space? Right. I'm sure....and the tooth-fairy leaves you quarters when your teeth fall out.
  
  I mean come on. Keep your mind focussed on reality. Things that are real is better than imaginary ones.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So many gods and they all know the truth about everything, amazing!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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jenblacksheepposted 14 years ago
Material evidence will never prove an immaterial God
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just keep on keep'in on and when day comes you can explain all that rationalizing in person. I'm sure you'll say it was the Lord's fault for not drawing you a picture.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That statement says it all. If He came up to ya and pulled a tree out of your nose you would WANT to believe that that was a halusination.
  You didn't sound like a free thinker in that statement.
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  jenblacksheepposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a free thinker ... I was bought up in a religious family, I got to atheism all by myself, you have no idea how much I wanted to believe in a God, but couldnt.
  
  I'm a free thinker until it comes to breaking logical laws. So ye, maybe I am close minded in that I don't believe logical laws can ever be broken.
  
  Secondly, if he came up to me then he wouldnt be immaterial.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize for the delay. I almost didn't see your reply.
  Also for sounding a bit snippy. I just do not think that an open minded person can undoubtedly rule out any possibility of something not proven. I was not raised in a religious family.
  We were taught to believe in a God and to follow the golden rule. No one in the family was overly religious.
  I would not want to be classified as being Religious.
  I will confess to having a relationship with a spiritual entity whom I believe to be the creator. Sometimes I get a bit zealous with the desire to share. I sometimes get a bit snippy when I am told that I am crazy for believing my hallucinations.
  If it is a hallucination it is my hallucination and I want to keep it. I do not want you to have any of it if it does not please you. I don't want to push it on anyone.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
When a person does not WANT to believe no amount of proof exists.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
a tree outta yer nose! Ack!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well everybody does rabbits what would that prove
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  say no more.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All I have to say, he better make it hurt when he pulls it out.
  
  Because, if I don't feel anything it isn't likely to pass for real.
  
  How ever, if I need to point it out to you again- 'religion' was made by MAN.
  
  Why? Because Government and Religious Leaders DO NOT think you can guide yourself. Those with power formed Government and Religion, as a two-way backstop against people, so they don't have to think for themselves.
  
  FREELOADERS won't accept responsibility for their life.
  
  Thanks, much appreciated. NOT!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you kidder, you
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is kidding? History shows you why religion was formed. Formal government were incorporated as a second-tier of control, because civlization advancements grew too fast and did the population of humanity.
  
  I'm not joking. This is what I learned.
  
  It is absolutely ludicris to have any belief in religion, because it is man-made on the sole belief that people can not be responsible for their thoughts or actions and needed to answer to a higher authority, so to prevent a perceived chaos, if left alone.
  
  It's amazing to learn what life really means. FREEDOM is awesome.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  um, check out my above statement.....
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
We can not imagine the vast amount of knowledge that went into the fires during the book burnings or even what is locked up for no one to see.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
The Vatican vaults would probably make you cry.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I have no argument with you about religion. In fact I have a bad taste in my mouth about religion. Jesus didn't come to the earth to establish religion. In fact I think that religion was the beast that John saw rising up out of the sea. Having 42 months to establish religion.
I don't think that God even likes religion
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
I don't believe in organized religion myself.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Life truly does seem to be an oxymoron. The hurrier I go the behinder I get. There seems to be a little truth and untruth in most everything on this physical world. Most of the people in the Churches are really good people and some aren't.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't fault the Church's soldiers, just the self-appointed God-Warriors.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Everyone does serve A God. Sometimes that God can not be seen unless there is a mirror close by. Or it has fishing tackle in it, Inteligence or good looks. some people loves the gift more than the giver
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
I'm partial to the giver, meself
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I'm looking forward to some more of your story. but don't hurry it up.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  which one?
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sannyasinmanposted 14 years ago
I believe that the problem is self-righteousness. The overbearing need to be "right" and for anyone who does not agree to be "wrong".
A quote from a recent hub (of mine) . . .

"Self-righteousness is probably the most pernicious problem that the world faces today, be it religious or patriotic. Needing to be “right”, and unable to tolerate a different point of view, or even worse, launching a crusade to snuff out any conflicting beliefs, can have only one consequence. War"
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen to that!
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
@ Denno 66 I was efering to the jump 1, 2 and 3. I liked them.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll get going on that one ASAP. My other series The Ten is not doing so well, and therefore I've just stopped altogether on that one.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've realy been busy but will check it out. No rush on the jump4 make it as good as the other three.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You got it. The other series is way different as it is part of a book I'm writing. I wanted a test audience, and it seems that it has failed the litmus test.
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rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago
one word~ IGNORANCE.
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rhamsonposted 14 years ago
If I were to boil it down to one word I would have to say "pride".
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats exactly what I think! Non-believers can't swallow their pride and be humble.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We don't need to be humble. We don't believe in Sin !
  
  And what about you, believers ? I don't see any humbleness in you either ! What with all that babble about being better than us for being saved !
  Saved of what ,? I always wonder...
  Maybe saved of yourselves !
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frogdroppingposted 14 years ago
Religion doesn't cause anything.

It's human kind that's the problem
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. It is separatism. Can't have separatism and expect unity from everyone.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's right again! So put on your best dress and head on off to church then you'll be on the same page as the majority! There's no reason to be left out come on we're waiting for you!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you refuse intelligent thought? I believe you do.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  C'mon! Get dolled up and lets go!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Point made.
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  frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely Marine. But we're the instigators. Not religion. That's what I meant by human kind is the problem, not religion.
  
  But then again, didn't we create religion. *shrugs* Or was that God or Allah or whoever.
  
  I'm out. This sub-forum is hostile in itself
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you there. When getting to the root of the problem, we are our own destruction. Religion is a great example of how people group belief creating separatism. Only a psycho creator would be the creator of grouped belief when we are all born individual. Religion contains no logic.
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
religion is not the problem, it is just a tool, it is up to the people to stand in what are the things they value, but people live in a specific culture and way of life, so there is a process called acculturation also, you become and talk like the other people that surrounds you, but you should maintain individual morals and stick to what you believe is right because religion can be used to oppressed people.
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rhamsonposted 14 years ago
The reason I said it was pride that causes the rift between the believer and the non believer is the resistance that both have towards each other.
The believer thinks he has the answer to the question does God exist and how to give it to others. Whatever means such as using the bible or the arguments of the congregation seem to be the ammunition that is employed to proof the argument.
On the other hand you have the non believer who either knows for themself that there is no God or that proof through the bible and congregation is unacceptable and has no validity then becomes hardened or open to hear personal beliefs being offered by a believer that may have some positive effect.
This paradigm is what is at the basis for this never ending argument.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One thing you left out. The non believer doesn't believe they are favored by a contradictory divine being for their belief.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is true to a certain extent. The term contradictory may be a judgement call though. Some things can have differences without being contradictory.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If they have differences, they contradict being the same.
  
  If they have favoritism, it contradicts equality and unity.
  
  If they have faith and interpretation, it contradicts logic.
  
  If they are in a grouped belief, they contradict being born with an individual mind.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nor should they. The non believer stands on their own. How can a divine being be in conflict with a non believer if the non believer doesn't believe the devine being exists? Kind of a boogey man theory isn't it. Mind you the pride of knowing there is a devine being as opposed to thinking there is a devine being changes little when someones pride is in question.
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Golly gosh you people do manage to twist things to suit
  
  Religion causes such anger and hostility because people who believe in an invisible super being invariably feel the need to "share the love" and inflict the "wishes" of that super being on everyone else.
  
  Fortunately things have moved on and now us unbelievers can tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine without fear of the stake.
  
  Too bad huh?
  
  Bet you are wishing for a return to good old fashioned family values (like slavery) right now.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No we just wish you were invisable.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then there would be no one to make you think.
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And that pretty much sums it up........
  
  Guess you need to pray harder? IDK - If you believe that sort of stuff it might be worth a try?
  
  Eventually I will die or get bored or something and you can pretend it was god's will to take me into the bosom of his loving abundance and further evidence of His existence.
  
  I guess for now I must be proof positive that the devil rides abroad.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We still wish you were invisible.
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Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years ago
And don't get me wrong, i am not trying to draw any lines, quite the opposite. I do not think that my education, or lack thereof, is important, it is just to open up a debate on being more tolerant of each other.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds a little naive. Don't you think?
  
  It also sounds like you are not a self-responsible person, like many others.
  
  You said " I do not think that my education, or lack thereof, is important, it is just to open up a debate on being more tolerant of each other." was said for what reason?
  
  Was your reason to start an argument? Or something else?
  
  If you are to move forward in life, your knowledge(education) is vital to your survival. Your understanding of that knowledge(wisdom) is your sole foundation for forming a belief.
  
  To use an emotion to create a belief is to use 'sand' as a basis to build a house. It's irrational and not of logic.
  
  You want to be believe in a 'god', that is your choice, but please don't sit there and make claims that knowledge doesn't matter, because the facts dispute what you claim.
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  Lloyd Christmasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, i was just trying to say that i have my opinions the same as everybody else, my education is as it is, i am not trying to annoy anyone. My education goes only so far in life as there is more to it, emotion and experience are also important. Education can only go so far in developing people.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No problem.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Hmm, that's kinda sketchy Cag. ;-/
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everything in life is based on knowledge and your understanding of that knowledge.
  
  What is sketchy?
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your reply. You assume that knowledge in its absolute form is the answer to everything.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Before you can understand anything- you must first have or gain knowledge.
  
  I don't see me assuming anything.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
So, you've convinced yourself there is no other way. How pious of you.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Amongst the biggest.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Didn't take my bait this time, Cagsil; that's good.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your bait?
  
  What bait? That I think I'm above others. I don't think I am.
  
  I find anything that is to be understood, has to come from knowledge(learning).
  
  Wisdom is the understanding of the learning you've done over the course of your life.
  
  If your understanding of What Life means? is skewed in any way, like not based on facts and only on experiences, upbringing and environment, then your knowledge about life is false.
  
  I'm not exactly sure, what you think about concerning overall of life, but if you have any unanswered questions - the only way you're going to find the answer is through knowledge and understanding that knowledge.
  
  To be pious? Don't know- don't have knowledge in who that is or what that is? So, I really can't respond appropiate.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Hmm, it's okay Spock. Somethings just defy explanation
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everything in reality is explainable. Because it is all knowable.
  
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everything in reality is explainable? Really ?
  Good we should be able to save a lot of money on research from now on !!!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's what I took away from it.....
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where in the world did you come up with that?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scientist used to dissect animals looking for "THE LIFE" that is in it. They couldn't find it therefore life does not exist. We can not prove that life is real. It is just a figment of our imagination. There we have it; Life is a fairytale; imagination is real. Now; is everyone's imagination real? Not necessarily! I can not prove that! I can only prove that MY imagination is real because you may be just a figment of MY imagination?
  Or am I just a figment of someone else's imagination.
  Shoot !!! I'm getting more confused all the time!!
  But why would God show such favoritism to me?? WHY?
  OH .. I got it now... Everything is just a figment of Gods imagination
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And since science can not find a soul I guess it will have to be a figment to our,uh, no my, uh, no Gods imagination.
  
  I hope that science stops not finding stuff cause I'm running outa stuff.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you talking(posting) to hear or read your own posts?
  
  You answering your own posts, seems like you are driving a car, but on the wrong side of the street.
  
  But, I would like to point out something to you- religion is man-made, created centuries ago. Why?
  
  Was it ignorance? Was it control? Was it arrogance?
  
  On another note- IF there were NO religious text to speak of and you were never ever told anything about "GOD".
  
  Would you have any thought of "GOD" whatsoever?
  
  NO You would not!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where does thought come from ?? You might say from their sences ? And then I would have to ask would a blind, and deaf, paralized new born ever in it's whole life develope a thought of any kind. I bet you are going to say NO! I do not remember the details but I did read a long time ago that there was such a child and it was proven to have a thought patern. And I can only wonder where that thought might come from? Please don't say that thought paterns do not exist because science can not see or hear or feel or or hold one in their hands.
  If science does not have a picture of something then it is not reality. Is that correct?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your senses are specifically that senses.
  
  And as for this "a blind, and deaf, paralized new born ever in it's whole life develop a thought of any kind- I bet you are going to say no!" statement which you answer on my behalf is simply naive.
  
  A blind and deaf, paralized new born WOULD have many thoughts running through it's head. The only problem- the likelihood of them ever understanding those thoughts is virtually impossible. Depending how long the new born actually lives.
  
  As for your question and whether or not you're correct, would depend on what definition you are using to define reality.
  
  There are more than one definition, but the correct answer is Reality exists. Reality exists free of independent thoughts, desires, will, and wishes. Reality is all knowable.
  
  That comes from one of the most trust science and philosophers of mankind's history- Aristotle. Who was conscious human being and a teacher, unlike Plato, who dealt in mysticism.
  
  Where does thought come from? The mind creates thoughts because of consciousness.
  
  Consciousness created awareness, which created free will.
  
  Since you have free will, you have the ability to form thoughts and actions for those thoughts.
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  Rick Marlowposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I did read an article about Helen Keller some years ago and she was relating a story of some time in her life where someone was telling her about Jesus.Her statement was,(Oh, I already know him,I just didn`t know his name.)I never forgot that statement.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Just when I was getting all Dr. McCoy on you.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Some of these people need to go down to the research and development department. The government needs their help
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
It must be quite difficult to know everything. Oh, the burden!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  with knowledge comes responsibility
  From now on God don't have to take all tha responceability.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Giggity. Oh, na he kin res up an stuff...
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, with knowledge comes responsibility.
  
  If more people were 'self-responsible' then the world wouldn't be in such a messy situation.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that everyone is responsible for their actions.
  to say that Christians do not do that is bit of a sweeping comment. Atheists are no better or worse on this issue than any other group. As far as the shape that the world is in is, more the blame of those that know everything. Us stupid people at the bottom of the totem pole are not the ones making tha decisions.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, first off- I don't remember anyone mentioning 'atheists' or christians for that matter. Yet, you brought it up? Hmm....?
  
  The people who know everything aren't the people in power. The people in power is those who have the strength to rule and enough knowledge to manipulate the people who do know everything.
  
  Government is just another manipulation of people concept. Just like Religion.
  
  Government forces you to follow law(s) because you can't be trusted to be self-responsible for your actions.
  
  Religion forces upon you false idols, doctrines that have no hope of ever working properly, and then tells you how you are to live your life, while at the same time, treating you no better than dirt.
  
  When all anyone has to understand is - you have a consciousness and a conscience that are your guide. You follow your own thoughts and execute beneficial actions so society can advance forward. In essence- the meaning of life summed up in one sentence.
  
  If you can be 100% self-responsible for all thoughts and actions, without requiring outside guidance- that's what it means to be ONE with oneself.
  
  You will live a life of pleasure, happiness and wealth.
  
  I see life through my eyes and not others. My thoughts and actions are under MY control. I use my consciousness to understand Life. I know how I came to be. I know why I exist. I also understand that many people will not treat me equally, because they will think that I think myself better than them.
  
  Which I am not. I am a human being who has grown his clarity about life, so he can help other people learn about life.
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  Rick Marlowposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There you go Jerami.That should get us off the hook.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you indicating something? Or something else?
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I fire in the dark and see who yells 'ouch!'
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see.
  
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you can avoid the bullets.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
He moves in mysterious ways that one
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  It that your final answer or is that just my imagination talking again ?
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, can I phone a friend?
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
He's baaaaaack!!!!
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Religion and Politics will always draw fire from every angle. Coming to an agreement of sorts is rather tricky at best.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But do you understand WHY? Religion and politics are always under fire.
  
  Because, they are both ill-conceived and perceived notions of man.
  
  Politics only exists as a screen for actions. It's all about perception in the eyes of the people. Which can sway in different directions, at a whim.
  
  Religion only exists as a screen for thoughts. It wants you to believe in a higher power, because the perceived notion is that you CAN NOT guide yourself and therefore seek guidance from somewhere else.
  
  Politics is nice, when dealing with another Nation, forming relations with other countries is required to form global unity.
  
  But, politics on a domestic side is sorely misplaced and misconceived, because there are very few citizens of the U.S. who actually believe anything that comes out of "Government" mouths.
  
  Religion needs to die, so LIFE can really be lived.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oi. Are you trying to get beat upside the head in here? Humans are emotional animals and many may take those statements as a personal attack on their personal beliefs.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be on tha war path. Have the Christians been peeing in your cornflakes. Burning crosses in your yard. If so you should find that "individual" and kick the tar out of um.
  If he is in high school I wouldn't burn the school down or anything but I'd kick the tar outa them. I think that we should slow down... breathe in....breath out.... again...
  Ya shouldn't let religion get ya mad like that. Anything that makes ya that angry has power over ya. Take controll of your feelings. hear yourself ? are you wanting to kill religion?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The spiritual fulfillness people seek, shouldn't be in a higher authority, it should be in satisfaction one receives by do good work for others.
  
  There is absolute no ryhme or reason for mankind to answer to anyone other than themselves.
  
  That is my point.
  
  I consider religion a man-made viral disease that is destroying mankind's existence.
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