Why does the Religion Forum cause such anger and hostility?

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darksideposted 14 years ago
The world will never know peace. How can it? People are too busy enjoying hating each other.
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  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this a little like the "saltines are socialist" post? lol
  
  The religion forum is as it is because the internet (and Hubpages, by making it free to sign up) has given voice to those who ordinarily would not be able to publish anywhere and who probably, in real life, nobody listens to.
  
  I find the discussions pretty lame (with a few notable exceptions and contributors). It's said that approximately 14% of the US population has a 4 year college degree...and I have never thought of that as significant before, and because in reality one generally associates mainly with those in your social group who are in many ways similar to you. Hubpage discussions have really opened my eyes to what education/and or decent self education does for a person, (A.
  
  And B), there are some just plain scary crack pots out there who really believe everyone should think as they do, and who if they didn't have the forum as an outlet to vent (or whatever they think they are doing), would probably be doing some real damage out there in society. ....Seen in this light, perhaps the 'anger and hostility' expressed is a positive thing.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed
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  Ghost32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Darkside, your post is right on target. As for the question posed in the title, I can only say...no clue. How any human can become upset by the contents of another person's mind (i.e. thinking process, belief set, etc.) is--and always has been--beyond me. If you send your cow over to eat my cow's grass, that's one thing, but anger because you think Brahma cattle are sacred while I think Angus are good to eat? I don't get it.
  
  For many years, I've had a "stock" answer for those who would ask about world peace or any similar "we are all one" topic, and that answer agrees with your own conclusion:
  
  Put any three people together, and two of them will promptly begin plotting against the third.
  
  Of course that "rule" is riddled with exceptions; it's not meant to be concrete-literal. But it does underscore the point: We humans are, when considered en masse, a contentious lot...and that aspect of our construction (sadly) does not seem likely to wink out of existence any time soon.
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  zampanoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We shouldn't forget the "hardware".
  A man of nowdays, is still a "homo erectus" with its hunter cro magnon brain with its fears and its carnivorous teeth.
  No change has taken place in man's nervous system since.
  His pulsions are still the same as they were at the time.
  Cultural veneer doesn't change much of this state.
  It would need a major genetic mutation for a naked ape to behave like a god.
  But we're not really longing for it. Aren't we ?
  I think this accounts for much.
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  dejajolieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I try and stay away from those and Political forums..."people fear what they don't understand" We also tend to forget what is "right" for me does not have to be right for you doesn't make my beliefs 'less true'.....
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  carolegalassiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's because a lot of people are burned out searching for the truth. Especially the way the world is today. The world says whats right is wrong and whats wrong is right. Like abortion, it's wrong yet the world says it's ok.........a choice.
  The truth will set you free. People are frustrated because they can't find the answer or even get close to it.........and it is as close to them then they think. It's the distant from the heart to the mind. Change the hearts of man and so will go the mind and the way we think.
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shazwellynposted 14 years ago
Life is for living! Lets just love each other!! x
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rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago
very true words, sadly. religion and politics divide, they don't bring together. I wonder what it was like before they were defined.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, lets just go beyond the ego, break down barriers with love x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Happy.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Before they were defined, there were no human beings !
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  omg.. yes.. absolutely! Marx had it right about the fairest way to live but the only thing he didnt take into consideration was HUMAN BEHAVIOUR! There are similar parallels here hon. Brilliant!
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Problem is Marxism became like a religion for people who distrusted religion. Just as Jesus' message of peace and brotherhood inspired the people who carried out the Crusades and the Inquisition, Marx inspired some of the most malevolent dictatorships in history.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yep, human behaviour again! It goes and spoils everything.. boo hoo!
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you know what I mean. I guess with the first man, who looked up and saw lightning and communicated that god was displeased.
  
  and the other one, said, no, no, its the angels.......
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Jonathan Jancoposted 14 years ago
Apparently, the religious forum is a place to project or unleash anger. I'm often in there trying to bring everyone to a nice middle ground. Then I'll read a thread that really p***es me off and all of a sudden I'm just as guilty as everyone else. Just as well since when I do post threads that are attempts at peaceful resolution, one of those nice Christians tell me I'm going to hell because I don't quote scripture, therefore I'm not a real Christian. The religious forum is a no win and put on your thicker skin before entering.
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  Godsweirdsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, we have confused two totally different things trying to use the same definition.I don't believe that true Christianity is a religion. By definition, religion is man seeking God. Christianity is God seeking man. So if my "eternal" destiny is up to me and what I do, then yes I am going to argue that I'm right and your wrong. But if I am in a relationship with my Creator, and so are you, then it opens the freedom of being an individual.
  Allowing each other to "work out their own salvation" as Paul says in Philippians, is what we need to concentrate on. No, we don't "work" for salvation, but we DO work out our own daily walk with Him.
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Jonathan Jancoposted 14 years ago
Better yet, post a quote from the Old Testament and then go on a three paragraph rant that has no conceivable correaltion to the quote. You'll fit right in.
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wyanjenposted 14 years ago
You make it sound like a scary place to go...

I love scary places
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
All the best ideas always end up in the trash. What a pity.....
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like seeds from a poppy, most are wasted hon. Most things are wasted, dont you think?
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, yes. But the ideas are so good. People get into the mix and it gets all muddled.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I often wonder how many 'Einsteins' have been wasted because there was no opportunity?
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or how many were ,um, eliminated in the countless purges of countless dictatorships?
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  as you said, most is wasted
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Still happening today.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely. I see the frustrated ones - they know they are disempowered. The controllers are so bent on control, they keep em down cos they are a threat. If they question or attempt to make them accountable, they silence them. The only way is to try and beat the controllers at their own game. Dont show them your cards or they will stack it against you.
  
  A story... I worked to empower people with learning difficulties and challenging behaviour. I believe in being used as a tool so as they can live life independently. The only thing was, that the team were controllers and werent interested in empowerment (which was my job description) but control. They did for them, they didnt care about dignity and respect, whereas i did.
  
  I advocated for the clients. What happened? They made my life a misery.. until I left. So what good did it do for the clients. f all. So I learned to play lip service. Act as a 'controller' but be an empower without the team knowing. That way the clients got choice, although limited. You cant beat the system, im afraid. It is the nature of human beings. x
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just became a victim of that as I just couldn't keep my big mouth shut. I advocated real change at my work that would have given the floor workers more autonomy, where in this case, it actually would have benefitted them and overall production, but it circumvented the Production Manager and Poof!, my job has been eliminated. Go figure.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh, denno....
  that sucks so much!
  Do you need some help kickin' butt? Let me know buddy!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I want him to still be there when I graduate from college so I can go up to him with a smile on my face and thank him. Success is the best revenge.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More power to you my friend
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bad Karma sucks.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes Karma can use an assist...
  I know some guys...
  
  Joking aside, you've got a great attitude about things. I know you are smart, because you are a smart-ass. Smart is the prerequisite for that.
  When you graduate with honors, go on ahead and thank the man
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It will fry his ass. I'm not being completely Angelic about this, I'm just playing by life's rules.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, btw.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome!
  baaaa
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We are taught to be kind and considerate to others. To think in terms of fairness and freedom. As the child grows, there is this constant conflict in those ideals. There is a social rule and there is a survival rule.
  
  I am sure that we are taught to be passive and kind because
  
  it suits those in positions of power - it is a way of controlling people's behaviour.
  
  Control is a form of bullying. We are all bullied, every day - at work, by governments and by someone who's social status is always slightly better than our own. It is like blackmail.. if you dont do such an such.. you will have a pay cut, go to jail for not paying your bills etc.
  
  Thinking about this, a song enters my head. 'Know Your Rights' by the Clash..
  
  This is a public service announcement
  
  With guitar
  
  Know your rights all three of them
  
  Number 1
  
  You have the right not to be killed - Murder is a CRIME!
  
  Unless it was done by a Policeman or aristocrat
  
  Know your rights
  
  And Number 2
  
  You have the right to food money - Providing of course you
  
  Don't mind a little Investigation, humiliation
  
  And if you cross your fingers, Rehabilitation
  
  Know your rights
  
  These are your rights
  
  Number 3
  
  You have the right to free Speech - as long as you're not
  
  Dumb enough to actually try it.
  
  Know your rights
  
  These are your rights
  
  All three of 'em
  
  It has been suggested
  
  In some quarters that this is not enough!
  
  Well..............................
  
  Get off the streets
  
  Get off the streets
  
  Run
  
  You don't have a home to go to
  
  Smush
  
  Finally then I will read you your rights
  
  You have the right to remain silent
  
  You are warned that anything you say
  
  Can and will be taken down
  
  And used as evidence against you
  
  Listen to this
  
  Run
  
  Know what I mean?
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what a provocative question. I have thought this also working with young children who are so bright and then they are told not to ask questions about why something is? some of the greatest insight comes from a 4 or 5 year old. they don't set boundaries on the universe ...
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
It's an issue of pride, people will argue all day over what they heard or read instead of honestly admitting "I just don't know" Isn't that why its called belief because we don't know for sure. We believe because its what seems right and most plausible, if we knew for sure though wouldn't we all be knowing, not believing. I hear alot of talk about science, and its refusal to believe, but I have seen many a scientist say, "We just don't know". I also hear them say quite often in the face of new evidence we have reevaluated our conclusions. Try to get a religionist to say, you know what "I'm just not sure", see what happens then and bring a helmet and pads.

For any human being to say that "I know for sure" is the ultimate act of arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. The very act and basis of faith is built on the notion of not knowing for sure. The very premise of science's search for answers is that we don't know for sure. So why can't we just stop fighting and say what is true, " I just don't know for sure."
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  because they want to believe that their faith is based in something more than a mere presumption .
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awareposted 14 years ago
because no one believes exactly alike . agreement on the issue is impossible
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Jonathan Jancoposted 14 years ago
It's not that scientists don't believe, Scott, they just believe something else. And speaking of science, as ridiculous as the creation myth in Genesis is, I think what keeps so many people believing in it is the utter absurdity of the Big Bang theory. After all, what created the thing that banged so big, anyway?
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have a good point but here is when mass misinterpretation comes into play, physicists and astronomers do not believe that this Singularity or big bang was the origins of creation or the universe but of this current one. There are equations and calculations that mathematically show the existence of something before that event, Scientist have always said that as to what happened before they do not know given the current evidence. They admit to this but the average religionist will try to tell you that science believes everything began with this event and that it proves their belief in a lack of God, when that is not the case at all. Too many people confuse the comments of extremists on both sides as the actual stance of that side.
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, you always get me Scott. I don't know what it is, maybe the Fluid. Thanks for adding to my comment. Perhaps that will provide some clarity to some people.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Science isn't a belief.
  This is where some of the hostility comes from, I think.
  
  Scientists may or may not have a belief, but their work involves using evidence to prove or deny theories. Science is not like the bible, which can be interpreted in different ways.
  
  2 + 2 = 4: No dispute.
  Thou shalt not kill: An unbelievable amount of dispute.
  
  The math argument doesn't create a lot of controversial arguing.
  The commandment on the other hand, get everybody riled
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is the "utter absurdity" of the "big bang" theory?
  Qwark
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer to believe there was no beginning. Makes life a lot easier. No big bang, no creator. Just is.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can't find fault with that.
  I thought that your use of the words "utter absurdity" indicated that you had studied all facets of the theory and rejected it as "balogny." Your answer seems to be just an opinion....NP..opinions are a dime a dozen. Yours is just as valid as any...:-)
  Qwark
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awareposted 14 years ago
the bible isnt my thing but if its yours im ok with that. im not the book burning type
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awareposted 14 years ago
i wish to dispute the 2 + 2 = 4 . 2 girls + 2 boys does not = 4 girls . nor 4 boys.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are wily...
  
  but you can't dispute that you have four people just the same.
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  awareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol good to see you. 68 + 1 = 69. im happy to be one person equaling your 69 fans.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  geez, I've been hoping somebody would join me or quit me. You are the first one to call me out though
  
  cue the relentless "69" teasing....
  
  Good to see you aware, how have you been? I have not forgotten that project from a few weeks ago, with your ideas for me about paper recycling. I'm hoping to finish and publish tonight. Or, tomorrow. I'll let you know.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wish to dispute all math- 1+1=3
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Paradise7posted 14 years ago
The people who feel the most strongly about a particular religious view get on the religious forums and anyone with more moderate ideas, willing to listen to others' points of view, doesn't have a look-in.

The religious forums here are apparently for "Fanatics Only" so anyone else has already been driven away.
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relacheposted 14 years ago
A HubPages version of FTFY...
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myownworldposted 14 years ago
religious forums = my idea of hell
'abstinence' is the key !
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  Paradise7posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you go girl. True!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The delete key?
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  shift delete, actually...
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  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if only it was that simple...!!!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is, I just keep missing the damned keys.
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  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I pressed mine so hard, it got jammed! I've been cursed now!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would not have believed that
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  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh I know u're going to hell with the rest of us for sure! imagine the fun we'll have there...ah heavenly!!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In heaven there is no beer.....
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In hell there is beer... only YOU CANT HAVE IT! lol
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's rich!
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  Niteriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tut, tut, tut. Have you people no respect for the sanctimoniously pious? ...where'd you say the beer was?
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wyanjenposted 14 years ago
OP, I don't think the forum causes anger or hostility.

It simply attracts it. And then condenses it to extra-strength.
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myownworldposted 14 years ago
Heaven:
- no beer
- no casual sex
- none of us
- all the religious from the forums!

Give me hell any day!!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm gonna race you there!
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  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yeah, that's me in your avatar in pink!!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah, take the one who's winning
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wyanjenposted 14 years ago
Hey wait...

we're supposed to be angry and hostile here.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Oh yeah. Um, my God is better than yours. Yeah ,that's right I said is........
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that's no insult to me since I don't have one.
  so, go to hell.
  oh wait, same problem....
  
  ummm...
  
  you've got cooties. neener, neener, neener
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's just downright mean! My God's name is neener! And, I already have my handbasket picked out.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh.
  
  neener neener neener is a sign of... tolerance... and um... respect.
  or something.
  
  Where you going with that handbasket? Oz?
  
  'Cuz the whole world is going to Oz in a handbasket.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, but not in mine. I got mine all tricked out in suede with fuzzy dice hanging off the rearview mirror an' stuff.....
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  more like.. I believe in god... No, I believe in god. *fighting over the same thing*
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're kidding, right?
  
  This was a joke between a christian and an atheist. See, we're not all enemies...
  
  Sometimes a joke about sheep is actually a just a joke about sheep.
  Not in the "lord is the shepherd" sense, just the regular old four foot wooly animal.
  
  There are some bullies and haters no doubt, but how often are people reading in their own hostility?
  
  This is a general statement, not directed at you shazwellyn... I really can't tell if you were kidding
  
  If an atheist says go to hell, it's not really an insult, is it? That's why I said, you're going to Oz with a handbasket.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was sooo insulted that I sheared myself in protest.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know how self-righteous I am when I send you to Oz.
  You are styling with that basket though. It's much nicer than mine.
  
  How long will it take you to grow back that wool? It's getting cold you know. I hope your protest got fair market value, anyway...
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, in the current U.S. market, I wasn't going to do well, sooo...I sold it to some search engine tycoon in China! China!
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not fair market value... hair market value! lol
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Nicely done.
  I was fairly sure you were being ironic... but I don't assume
  
  And for some reason, people do seem to get offended when we make sheep jokes... Not a lot, but there are a few...
  I think that's what happens when somebody skips right to the last page of the forum. They miss all the "subtle" points.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Denno loves it! Denno is one of my favourite people here - such a sense of humour! Gives me joy and a chuckle, especially when subjects get seeeeeeeeeeerious!
  
  Life is for living! *wink*
  
  x
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no.. I was being ironic. All religions believe in the same thing.. so why fight? x
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sorry babes.. who is the athiest and who is the christian? x *confused, totally lost the plot!* lol
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
I've got your violin and your neener right here!
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Bibowenposted 14 years ago
OK, to all of you self-anointed brightlights (and you know who you are). Is this question really seeking an answer or is it just a thread to bash the people you don't like elsewhere? I hope you can appreciate the irony of this thread in all the love it’s spreading to dispel the hatred on the religion forum.

Isn't anyone yet tired of the listening to the bore who puts down the guy who always thinks he's right? I guess he think's he's wrong when he's bashing Bubba for being a know-it-all….

The fact is that debating religion is a fine tradition that goes back many centuries. Ever heard of Luther v. Eck? The reason for the intensity is that people believe they are right about the points pertaining to religion. That's what makes a debate interesting. Who's going to tune in for 5 minutes to listen to two debaters verbally shrug their shoulders as if the topic isn't important? I want to listen to two guys who are certain they are right go at it.

In American universities and in some in Europe, there has been a surge of interest in debates pertaining to religion. University religious clubs, not normally noted for having a large attendance to their meetings, often find themselves overrun with students in their club-sponsored debates on religious topics, like the existence of God, the veracity of the resurrection, Intelligence Design, etc. I've heard this story repeatedly over the last 5+ years. Our students appear to be interested in topics pertaining to God, Jesus, the afterlife, etc. And the way they are choosing to explore this interest is through a debate on religion.

The fact is that debates on religion are intersting and are more likely to attract people's attention to Hubpages than some of the sad-sack musings I've read here. Your welcome.

Now, I know for saying these things that I'm going to be showered by affirmation and love, unlike the no-nothings on the religion forum who would call me names, engage in character assassination, etc.
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  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As a self-anointed bright light (or whatever...I guess), most of the stuff I read in the religion forums does not even APPROACH what I'd call reasonable debate. The lack of basic knowledge of world religions and different schools of thought is kinda scary. I hope to God people are not 'debating' like much of what I've seen here at the university level these days.
  
  I seem to recall DISCUSSION on the thoughts of St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, Golda Meir, Khalil Gibran, the principles of morality and ethics, etc., etc. Not an insistence that one Christianist God is the correct way to indoctrinate children, ie.
  
  Mainly, I personally just stay away, unless posters I respect start a discussion, because there simply is no point in talking to wingnuts. I figure they must be getting something positive (or a release) out of ranting, but surely I would never call any of it 'interesting.'
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes...I seem to remember a thread when we talked about comparative religion and they all assumed it came from one book
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
seems as though intiligand discusion is a good thing,and intresting,
Debate betweem two people who can not listen is booring
When neither are willing to think about the points made by the other; time is wasted to extreme.
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Ben Zoltakposted 14 years ago
Clearly this dialogue would benefit from a less erudite quote, "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." Willy Wonka.

Religion is a set of gold-plated toggles engineered by the wealthiest members of all the world's societies. Inflammatory gestures are cultivated by well-meaning if somewhat less intelligent leaders who blindly worship the aforementioned wealthiest elite. The Human race is too fruitful for it's own good and is only placed in check by one of two forces: war or famine. This is the dogma engineered by the elite. Religion is this world's most notorious double edged sword used both to heal the sick and weak, while at the same time used to inflame the strong bodied and weak minded, thereby allowing the elite to cull the herd. You, me and most everybody we know are the herd.

There are other paths to take, but in the history of mankind, rarely do we take the third path, namely: exploration. It costs as many lives as war or famine, the rewards are vast wild resources, but the risks of earnest exploration are conceived of as, ironically, too life threatening!
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this post seemed to get lost in this thread, but says so much.
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice bump. I enjoyed that.
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Quilligrapherposted 14 years ago
Someone said earlier in this thread, “The reason for the intensity is that people believe they are right about the points pertaining to religion.” This reminded of a story told to me many years ago:

When people die and go to heaven, they are divided into groups and taken on a tour of the place so they will be able, later, to find their way around. So it was, one day, that the Angel Gabriel was leading a group of new arrivals, pointing out the various parts of paradise. At one point on the tour, as they were approaching a place totally enclosed in high walls, Gabriel instructed the group to be very quiet while going past this area. “Walk softly,” he said, “and don’t make a sound.” Of course, everyone did as they were instructed. Once they had passed the area, one person raised his hand. “Yes?” said Gabriel. “Do you have a question?” “Yes I do,” said the new comer. “Can you tell me why we had to be so quiet when we went past that place back there?” “Well, you see,” Gabriel replied, “that’s the part of heaven where all the born again Christians live and they think they are the only ones up here.”
Q.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They WILL be the ONLY ones up there. Haven't you read that yet? It's in Red Text
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  Quilligrapherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your opinion, d. But, the fact that it's in print, no matter what the color, does not make it true.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL...that is great
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Well that party got derailed by those with no sense of humour quickly enough...
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myownworldposted 14 years ago
((((this thread is in serious danger of turning into one from the religious forum!!)))
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  zampanoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was thinking just that when I got to your post.
  how are you ?
  Beware of "abstinence"...
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shazwellynposted 14 years ago
The forums, from a psychological perspective, are great for anaylising human behaviour. It reflects behaviours safely, and can be viewed comprehensively, the inner thoughts and feelings of individuals. This can be lost in a 'controlled' environment, where people are aware of social context and may be closed in their feelings.

When debating religious context, people feel strongly because it isn't about the subject matter - but something deeply personal. Something that is so strong in peoples identity that it is taken as an afront to them.

Considering the identity, it might be thought of as the foundations of a house (the house being the whole person). When an aspect of the identity is scrutinised and disected, it is like damaging the foundations of a person. If these foundations are damaged, the house starts to subside. The person starts to break down. It is fundamental to the individual's well-being to attempt to keep these foundations in tact. The attacking nature is a form of defense. They need to defend their whole being so they don't crack and subside.

This is why the forums are so challenging, because the subject stirs up challenging behaviour. Signs of what is happening within an individual can be measured by the behaviour displayed.

This is my input from a psychological perspective. I hope this helps x
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  Quilligrapherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is a good input at that! Well said.
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evebey754posted 14 years ago
I am new to HubPages but wanted to add a comment to the topic. I feel that the problems with religion is that each group believe they're right. When someone believes they are right, then someone else is wrong. However, if each group believed that their way is only "one way" and not the "only way" we would have a different result and less problems regarding the issue. An analogy: Think of a tree, it has many limbs and branches, but only one trunk with lots of roots unseen underground. The limbs and branches represent the various religions and the trunk (God) represents the one link to everything else. Meaning all parts of the same Source. The roots (connected to the tree) are unseen but without them, the tree could not exist.
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TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years ago
Anyone considered religion as a control system?

One can be easily misled and manipulated. There is a saying which goes like this;

'repeat something over and over and people will blindly believe it.'

Ever considered that the religion people are taught by their masters or priests isn't the religion their masters and priests practice behind closed doors?

Look within and the truth shall set you free!
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UPStarposted 14 years ago
religion and politics are both important.
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  TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Important to incite wars, segregation, racism, split the masses and keep the super wealthy in power.
  
  Even more important to keep the world suppressed of truth and to be living in fear!
  
  As long as people pay their taxes, support the system that doesn't support them then everything will be just fine!!!!
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  UPStarposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would say I utterly disagree, but I dont want to create anger and hostility. So... how's the weather?
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  TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not that great in England, never is to be honest.
  
  However, I accept your opinion and we can both agree to disagree if you like. The biggest crime ever to mankind was when the few got to enslave the many. If you really knew what religion was or what people were actually worshipping then you would have a totally different outlook on life. I am not the one who can tell it how it is for it is up to the individual to seek the truth for themselves. Politics and religion or socialism is devised to keep the sheep in line and for the sheep to compete against each other for a slice of success, but never for a slice of freedom!!! Only the select few can taste freedom for what it really stands for. How inhumane!
  
  Don't let your feelings get you down and have a good day!
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  Quilligrapherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nearly every civilization known to exist in recorded history, of which “ours” is but the latest, has condoned physical slavery in some form. Most of these civilizations predate modern religions, so it is hard to argue that religions created slavery. I think that most people know what religion is and most adults that actively practice a religion know what they are actually worshipping. Religions may have many flaws but I would not say they were devised to herd sheep although there are plenty of examples of how religion was used for that purpose.
  
  Religion has two characteristics that attract large numbers of followers and both are among the main reasons why it exists at all. First, it provides answers to all of the questions about life that we humans can not yet explain rationally, albeit many rely on interpretation and faith. The origin and the purpose of life, and what ever comes after, can all be found in the teachings of religion. Secondly, religious practice grew, not because it enslaved, but because it empowered mankind. Early religions provided the weak and the meek who lived in constant fear, with a “sword” they could use against men more powerful then they were. In their defenseless existence, the commandment “Thou shall not kill” really advocated “thou shall not kill me!”
  
  While religion may not have been intended to enslave people, it has proven to be an effective “glue” for bonding groups into individual societies. When combined with language, traditions, and customs, it becomes part of a viable alternative to anarchy and people freely cooperate for the purpose of their own identity and the overall good. In some modern cultures, the influence of religion is waning because it is less essential for physical survival.
  
  Q.
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  TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Slavery comes in many forms not just physically. There is all types of emotional slavery and mental slavery. In the past people were forced into slavery by physical means and they were given accommodation and food to stay alive. Nowadays we live in a more sophisticated society where a false sense of freedom is pulled over people's eyes. There is no need to use brute force against the people anymore because people willingly accept slavery today as a part of life.
  
  People are giving up their freedoms in so many ways today and in most cases without knowing so. The birth of terrorism in the modern age has given those in power the tool to restrict people of their constitutional rights. What people are also unaware of is when they sign the dotted line on certain documentation they have willingly but unknowingly wavered their rights as a human being, especially when joining a corporation. Religion is also devised to herd the sheep and to segregate the mass population. If you dissect any modern religion you will find so many similarities between them all - albeit the change of names and locations to suit a particular culture. If you dig a little deeper you will see that they all represent the same principle. Any holy scripture or doctrine are based upon the most earliest ancient worshipping but have been cleverly designed to give half truths and myths to keep people scratching around in the darkness.
  
  While people play the system and let themselves be manipulated and misled - chasing dreams and materialism - those who are practicing the only way to experience real freedom are the only ones really enjoying the ride while they dangle carrots for the few along the way, but there are so many that won't even get a glimpse of it!!!
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ..so? What does that tell you about the majority of human life? Do you have a remedy?
  Qwark
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Andrew0208posted 14 years ago
This is very common with all Religion forum. When you see people ravaged with hatred and hyprocricy while playing the game of Religion. Religion stinks without love.
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
there is so much hatred and hostility here because they are taking it personally when in fact they can argue but being respectful of all opinions
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Niteriterposted 14 years ago
Oh Ben, you are so studious and sincere. I salute your great knowledge and your willingness to study the issues. Nevertheless, the more often someone injects a little levity in threads like this one, the less likely it is someone will go all postal on us.
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, niteriter that's hilarious! Maybe it's because I was raised by a Postal Worker that drank a lot of coffee, I learned to try and diffuse anger early on!
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
Moo
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Baaah.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
If cows and sheep can get along...
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Help! we are being out run by hoofies! 'duck everyone, before the splurg!'
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
It's the hairless monkeys that have a hard time playing in the same sandbox.....
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The hairless monkeys. Love it!
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They constantly try my patience.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey now.
  Scamper off and play.
  Let the monkeys throw their poo in peace.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I left you a present; don't look down.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does a gorilla poo smell better than chimp poo?
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Depends on which religion the gorillas are.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What if they are communist gorillas?
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Make mine a naked ape!
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
Otters and monkeys playing together
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
I think the religion forum itself causes no anger. People become angry when they feel threatened by views that differ from their own. Or they're already angry, but they use religion or the lack thereof as their scapegoats. Or they use the forum to spread untruths and misconceptions about other religions, then do not respond well to correction.
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lets be honest here.
  
  Your religion makes people angry and hostile.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, blame my religion for your anger and hostility.
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  Anna Erwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How about, people like you in your religion make people angry and hostile.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree
  But she wouldn't see that!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Always the victim never the bride! Hey Tantrum!
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  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL
  
  Yup that is a Christian right there.
  
  "Don't go blaming me for your anger and hostility. It is not my fault god said you are a fool and are going to burn in hell for all eternity. Plus - you are a sinner because you do not follow the rules I tell you god said are right. Why oh why is everyone so hostile and angry?"
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Anna Erwinposted 14 years ago
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  kewl x
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TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years ago
..so? What does that tell you about the majority of human life?

-----------

TWO words

SUPPRESSED and IGNORANT

Remedy?

Look within and don't let the ego guide them.

Remember this saying...

'The best things in life are FREE!'

How do people recognise this?

By Opening their eyes and snapping out of the induced coma!
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
Pride will always be the driving factor of contention. It is the "unseen" walls we build up from childhood. It is that superficial veil we build to protect our ego and perceived self worth. The test is in finding the courage to burrow a window in that veil that new light and understanding can penetrate that secret room in the soul. Only then can one find true liberty in their agency to choose in life.
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TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years ago
your remedy is purely idealism.

-------

We are living in a world driven by self interest. What does this do? It separates people from each other, promotes competition and satisfies the ego. This splits the population into thinking a particular way. Religion, politics, racism and socialism are designed so that the super elite can rule and divide. When wars are waged, fatal diseases are distributed and financial depressions are created the masses are chasing dreams and materialism, satisfying the ego and thinking about what time they should call round for the football match with a case of beer or what shoes would look better with the dress they are wearing.
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I admire the conviction behind your arguments "All C-ing I" but your last post excerpt," while the masses are busy chasing dreams and materialism, satisfying the ego and thinking about what time they should call round for the football match with a case of beer or what shoes would look better with the dress they are wearing"
  
  this begs the question: What superior diversion are the elite indulging in that is so much better than the masses? To read your other posts, you imply that the elite must only be indulging in that which is "free" so from your logic you imply that the elite only partake in going to the library, long walks in the park and the occasional buffet at their neighborhood soup kitchen. Some how I think the elite chase the same dreams and materialism as the masses, only on an inordinately grotesque scale.
  
  I am curious how you would vote in my hub:
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Vote-For-Who-Yo … or-Zealots
  
  Let me know and I'll measure the degree of your magnanimity for free, so you know it's gots to be good!
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andromidaposted 14 years ago
As long as people giving more importance to religious leaders rather than the true human value or the real message which every religion convey-all religions in fact convey the same message- such anger and hostility will continue.
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TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years ago
The elite can indulge on a grand scale there is no doubt although they too can take that quiet long walk in the meadows. Yet they do so with free thought, do so without having to play the system or make any sacrifices of their own.

Life is about seeking energy for that is all what life is after all!

While the masses fight it out amongst themselves for the scraps of energy that is allowed into the system the elite can sit back and bathe in it at the expense of us all. Life is simply to be lived. We either live positive or negative. We create our own reality and our own environment. Free isn't just rolling around in the fields, kissing and cuddling and eating fruit and veg. Free goes so much deeper than this, but to experience the deeper, one can only see this from within.

If we choose to chase outside fulfilment then we become locked into the system where we have to play the game. Money, religion, materialism and egotism is an outside form of worship which creates competition. It is designed to make us feel separated from everyone else. It is created to make us feel individualistic and it is also designed to stop unity and a coming together of all.

While people are too busy judging others and blaming everything bad that happens within life upon others instead of looking within and seeking understanding of self - thus seeing the real problem for what it really is - they will be subjected to negative thinking which brings to them low feeling that manifests their reality.

The press, government, religious institutions and entertainment business are controlled and structured to make people look outside of themselves for both fulfilment and answers. While people scratch around in the darkness seeking that thing, that particular thing that can make them feel whole and complete, to fill the huge gap that is gaping in their lives which always seems to be there, the deep empty feeling that is eating away at them, sucking the energy from them, making them feel alienated from everything around them you can be assured that the elite are experiencing that yearning which the masses seek.

Money, religion, politics and entertainment are simply put before us to act as a smokescreen to give us a false sense of freedom and security. It also diverts our minds away from the truth and away from the things we aren't supposed to know.
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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TheAllSeeingEyeposted 14 years ago
I also enjoy your multifaceted rendition of freedom. I would have you know though, that many regular non-elite, enjoy these kinds of liberty.

---------

They enjoy it because they don't know how to enjoy life period! Their minds are controlled and their life experience is guided by others with their consent of course...

While they sit back with their feet up, drinking fluoride and aspartame beverage and munching on foods tampered with preservatives and toxins, reading a magazine filled with negative thinking or watching the latest action packed movie complete with subliminal messaging and symbolism that all goes toward occult worshipping people like themselves somewhere in the world are being killed off and sacrificed in some war without a cause or hate filled crime. Let's just hope it doesn't happen to them....
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  Ben Zoltakposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will hold tight to what you said about happiness residing within, that is solid advice I can use. Also not to affected by outward negativity! Thanks EYE!
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
With out a doubt the religious forum does not cause anger and hostility.
Anyone that believes that it does is lying to themselves.
The truth is that when anyone has a chip on their shoulder and want to dare someone to knock it off, the most popular place to do this is the religious forum.

And there are other benefits as well.
The believers can think that they are showing the non believers the truth the light and the way.
And sometimes people come on here only with the intention of hijacking the thread and the subject mater that would have been discussed is pushed to the wayside.

Any one should feel free to ask honest questions or express honest comments but; just to rob the opportunity for others to do the same thing is just wrong.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
To do that you would need to ban religion.
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Why does the Religion Forum cause such anger and hostility?

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