Can you please clarify what you are looking for in this forum as I am confused. Stating your miracles leaves no room for conversation, in my eyes. I congratulate you on your success but cannot help wondering if it's attention or converts you seek, respectfully.
Could you please clarify, given forums are for group activity, what you would like us to discus?
Ahh, the codependence of needing everyone else to agree. I do not in any way minimize or mock your experience, marine, but the only person you can save is you. It's a mutual contract between you and God. All others are responsible for themselves. Hope of saving others is not reality. Everyone must develop their own relationship with God. It's individual, not collective.
Therefore, I believe we get into the arguments and disagreements we do in the religion forums, because the path and connection to God is not a group effort, despite what religion pretends to do. Regardless of how you state, enforce it, or shout it out, the path is an individual one. The connection that you have found is yours alone and belongs to no one else. Others mock because they have not yet found it, and feel that those who thrust their experience on to them is false for them.
I am personally happy for your experience. I have had similar in my life time and now have gone the other way. Religion and dogma will never add up for me. I think it is the furthest thing from having a spiritual connection. And so while I am happy for your experience, I just cannot buy into any of it anymore.
I think this is a point to agree to disagree on. There is no reason for mockery, hate, contempt or arguing. But I have stated where I am at so that you won't tread on my beliefs, just as I will do my best to not tread on yours.
Sending best regards, and wishing you continued peace.
Okay I'll play along with you marinealways24 just in case you are telling the truth. This is just your first step in your faith walk, it's a lifetime commitment, to be 'saved' you have to continue. Nothing is strange about someone finding Jesus Christ, it happens every day. If you are telling the truth marinealways24 then Putz is right, "the Angels in Heaven are rejoicing" for you and although a little skeptical, so are a lot of people in here.
I'd suggest to Cagsil, lyricsingray and the other naysayers to come into the light of Jesus Christ.
Okay I'll sit back with the popcorn now to see what happens.
Yes, another faith based psychologist who diagnoses the backbone of the country with PTSD to support faith. Follow your sister in the protection of faith. I find it amusing how you claim to understand psychology of PTSD, yet you are unable to understand the psychology of the bible. Keep believing. Did Jesus teach you this?
You might have been ignorant...that is up to you to decide. If so...look where your ignorance took you...? Too me...you made the wisest of choices. Many times...I would look at your posts in the forums and say...there is a man in search of more on his spiritual journey in life. Looks...like you found the ultimate answer. Very Excellent! Many times...I prayed for you to seek nothing but the best answers to your questions...and look what has happened!
I have a small suggestion for you...if you have the time: Read a book on Keith Green's life called "No Compromise". I think it will encourage and strengthen you in your new found faith. he was a singer...who also had many questions while on a spiritual quest...and it took him very far while trusting in faith!
It is said that Jeebus was into Donkeys. Now I hear this from a genuine believer I am convinced.
I had previously thought this to be a sin. But apparently not - I have heard and according to research.
Now I know this is also an option - I may seriously consider throwing reason to the wolves and taking up with donkeys. Thank you for this enlightened version of events. You truly are an open minded individual. After all - this is how new species come about.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Enlightenment isn't what you seek. Enlightenment isn't true answers, it is a myth brought about by religion.
Answers I have is knowledge and understanding about life itself. I can honestly extend my knowledge and understanding, because I have no questions about or in my life. I'm not restricted by limitations others try to put on my mind.
I have faith in myself and my own ability to guide myself. Therefore, I need no external source to guide me. I live by my conscience and use honest thoughts to stroke my actions.
You have a consciousness that tells you that you're alive. You have a conscience that tells you right from wrong for guidances. You have a subconsciousness that relays, your sense of life.
You create free will thru consciousness, you create deeds thru honest thought, reinforced by honest action.
There is no room for external guidance and leads one to understand that any other guidance other than self-guidance is absurd.
It is a difficult thing to confess faith in Christ publicly these days, I respect those who are able to do so. In my opinion, faith is something personal, that need not be publicly displayed in order to understand it's power.
To often I have come to the end of the path I am on and asked..."Why?" The same answer is always there. "I walk the path that I have deemed necessary."
We all walk our own path, accepting that...I am saved.
The path I walk has been intelligently designed, accepting that...I am saved.
Entropy is the prime directive, accepting that...I am saved.
I am not saying this to be rude, but I want to know why you are patronizing Marinealways for stating something that is profound to him and to his life? I don't see anyone being rude or mean to people who open up forums to congratulate people who have made 100 fans, or a 100 hub score, or for making 100 hubs. So what is your problem with this forum?
He is happy and wants to share his happiness with others. Thats it! leave the man in peace.
That last post one was from seven days ago, but today Marinealways24 has been saved ... about 6 hours ago ... and right after he announced he was saved he finished flouncing a religious philosopher here:
Though marinealways24 shares no words in doing so, it is obvious if you go back a page he shared them a few days earlier then disappeared from the conversation for six days when he was banned for calling a person names in another topic (checked the hubtivity - no forum activity for six days straight)... and I strongly believe that ban is what 'saved' him and I believe the smiley faces under Mohitmisra's thereafter posts were meant to be a spiteful sneer.
So, that explains why I am not so accepting that he has changed his ways ... and I have yet to hear him apologize to Mohitmisra publicly, like any good christian would if they insulted someone in public and then became saved.
After all, when one is saved, they do try to right any past wrongs, right?
Now, if someone were to say they were saved and I knew them to be factual about it, or had no reason to doubt them ... then yes ... I would share their enthusiasm, as I believe in God as well.
I found God and we had a little chat. He said, 'Mr. Cow, do not despair, one day you will die and forever lay in rest. But, my dear son, just know this one truth: There will be false prophets whom speak of me and try turn you to the face of evil. Hold your faith and know that I am here. I need nothing from you, for I am God. I give you life and I give you reason. Some will falter and some will give up. I am God, I know all, see all and am all powerful. I create you in my image. Use your omnipotence and defeat the ignorant, convert them to my word and failing that, kill them all.' Strange fellow.
CAGSIL runs to the store to buy gold cross necklace, hangs it around lyricsingray's neck and see she is naked- takes her into his arms, to comfort and relax her- Fear nothing, for I shall protect you against others.
This is AWESOME!!!! Thank you for sharing. I am one who does completely understand and you will be in my prayers. I fanned you and I am looking forward to being HP BFF's. :-) (I don't know how to make those cute little smilies)
I would be hopeful with you, were it not for knowing this hubbers posts in the past. I already wrote down on a sheet of paper how long this conversion will last, and my accuracy is often better than Edgar Cayce's.
It has the wrong title but go post your savings not at the bank but ate the newest forum titled Religious Hubs (suppose to say forums) Why? I have quoted you and referenced this as a good example for my question that hope I saved, thank you
I've been expecting someone to say something like marine did as an insult somehow to believers. Now it's hard to know if he's serious or not, feels like he's biding his time waiting for the right comment so he can attack. But we have no way to know so there's nothing to say but accept it as true for now.
Faith is found immediately you ask for forgiveness and accept your and my savior Jesus Christ! He wants to talk to you when you will trust and put faith in him. Who needs logic when you can have faith? Faith is bliss!
Interesting choice of words, as you were feeding the Christians to the lions over this in the thread you posted just before you were banned.
I think it's great to be saved, but it's cynical to pretend to be saved. I don't always agree with everything said on the religious forums, but I certainly don't poke fun at them by pretending to be saved - that's just mean!
You might think they are all stupid enough to buy into this while you laugh at your keyboard, but I can assure you they are no fools and will soon discover the same clues I did which expose this for the farce that it really is.
I totally agree. And agree. And agree. And he doesn't seem to be psychotic. I find myself trying to rationalize the circumstances under which this would not be cruel. And trying not to be personally disappointed.
I don't bash people. I don't start insults. I find insults appropiate for specific mentalities, especially when you tell someone a fact and they tell you it's not.
I don't come to the forums looking for trouble, but I'm not ignorant about what's going to occur either.
The fact that I have all the proof I need to make GOD non-existent, is completely relevant to only me. I can scream all day long, about beliefs. I don't use beliefs to live my life. I use my mind, my conscience and honest thoughts.
I don't lie, because there is no good that can come from it. I'm smart enough and I understand enough about life, so as to know what to expect, regardless of what situation or circumstances comes up, I rise above it.
Yes, I have been here and Yes, I have slammed down on some. I've apologized for my actions by the request of another hubber in another forum. If you didn't get your apology, then I suggest you visit it. With all the places I post, I don't even remember the hubbers name who opened the thread or the name of the thread.
I didn't have to apologize, but I thought I would, so as to get to know more about people. What I know- is what I share.
A public apology to Mohitmisra would be a start. Remember him? He's the religious philosopher you trounced before you were banned ... and the same person who drew smilies to on each of his latest responses AFTER you were saved.
How odd you responded to each of my messages and ignored this part each time ...
Were it not for this small 'wrinkle' in your saving I might have given it some thought as the real deal.
So, why exactly did you add smilies to all of his latest posts? Why didn't you apologize? Why didn't you tell him God loves him?
Again, I remind you that you added the smilies AFTER you created this thread, so by then you had ALREADY been saved.
But here's your second chance ... you can go over to that thread I mentioned (you were in it today, so you know which one) and you can tell Mohitmisra you have been saved and that you apologize for your past transgressions.
While you're at it, you can go to the thread where you called Spiderpam a name (that's what got you banned, remember?) and post a message in that thread apologizing for that behavior. Granted, she can be a bit forceful with her opinions, but she said nothing to earn her being called names.
Atonement for one's sins is the foundation of Christianity, so assuming you have been saved, I am guiding you toward what God would ask of you. Being saved isn't a mulligan where you leave all sin behind and start with a clean slate. It's acknowledging you led a wicked life you wish to atone for and promising to lead a much better one from here on out. That better life starts with atonement and moves on to becoming a better person.
You will also note that I have only asked that you apologize to those you have recently (and directly) offended, as I believe that - given it's sincere - should be enough to prove you have turned over a new leaf and are not trying to make a fool of the believers.
Please note ... I'm a believer ... and as any believer I do not care for people who use 'being saved' as a means of poking fun at Christians. We take it very seriously, and I want to be certain that you do as well.
Does the bible say to accept false prophets or to call them out? I do not respect anyone that speaks lies. Jesus teaches truth! Not lies. The bible also teaches against arrogance. The prophet is pure evil! I forgive them both and pray they find peace and truth through my saviour Jesus Christ.
You forgive them both here ... where we could only see it ... or do you forgive them in the threads where you insulted them?
I have three children ... two daughters and a son. Now, when my son calls my daughter a name I don't accept his apology for her ... instead, I ask that he apologize to her personally as it was her feelings he hurt.
So is it too much to ask that you go to those two topics and post your apologies? And you should also mention that you have been saved, which is why you are atoning for your sins.
To offer your apologies here is just grandstanding for an audience, which leads me back to my former belief that this could be all a show.
This is because you have no faith in me. I do not encourage people to lie by appologizing for their lies. I have faith that they will stop lying, this doesn't make it logical. Forgiving them doesn't mean I have to encourage them to keep lying. You disagree?
I'm not asking for you to forgive *them*, I'm asking you to directly ask them for forgiveness for calling them names in the very recent past. Whether they chose to offer their forgiveness in return is of no concern, as a Christian makes amends for past sins with others with no concern over whether their apology will be accepted.
Did you honestly believe being saved meant you just say 'I believe in Jesus Christ' and you're in the club? There's a lot more to being saved than saying it ... God looks for proof, and if he doesn't see it ... he doesn't buy into it either. After all, if becoming saved where that easy, every atheist would shout 'I believe' once in their lifetime to insure salvation, just in case there really was a God.
As many Christians were thrown to the lions in Jesus's time, they prayed ... not only for their own souls, but for the souls of the Romans, that they might be shown leniency in heaven for their actions. They never asked for apologies, and earnestly believed their salvation was set by forgiving those who had transgressed against them.
This was not a case of the Christians acknowledging the acts of the Romans as being justified, but an acknowledgment that the Romans did not know God, and therefore, could not possibly know the right path to travel ... making it less their fault that they traveled the wrong one.
it's just another version of "holier than thou" stating that they are better because they are "saved" and what the hell. in the other spectrum, it's "i am smarter than thou" in which they are better because they are "smarter".
both makes fun of themselves. ain't that beautiful? humility is easily forgotten.
anyway, my popcorn's gone and i'm finished with this pathetic "reverse psyche" trolling attempt.
The Bible says, in I Corinthians 2:14, "the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
Since this seems to be heading to a point of contrasting logic and faith, it fits right in with a book I was reading today called Gut Feelings - The Intelligence of the Unconscious by Gigerenzer, the director at the Max Planck Institute for Human Development. Just in the front cover it says, What looks like a reasoning error from a purely logical perspective can be a highly intelligent social judgment in our fiendishly complex lives. In the book he explores many instances of logic giving the wrong answer in daily life. It's not as cut-and-dried as we might wish life to be.
Hey y'all - couldn't help but jump in at this point. I think you're all right If you have indeed found faith Derek/Marine - CONGRATULATIONS! You must have found a degree of trust in yourself in order to trust stepping onto a path out of confused mayhem. Hope your new little one helped cause you seemed to have been waiting for him to change your life.
Good book! Although I agree that life is only complicated when we allow ourselves to stay stuck in that belief, it does say clearly (and simply) "... it can be a highly intelligent social judgment" BINGO! Let's see, should I choose to piss everyone off and get banned from a site I love and in which I find my social interaction daily? Or should I embrace a path, crank up my faith, learn from a great teacher and "fit in" with the majority in society? That's what I call a no-brainer!
CONGRATULATIONS to you too Cagsil. Clearly you realize things can be simple in the here and now. Is there room to embrace the possibility that although people don't necessarily change, they may need to rise above confusion once-in-awhile? It is good for the soul and when it comes right down to it, I believe doubt is what keeps us stuck in crap like judgment - - - doubting ourselves and our worth, doubting others - who needs it? And for my final profound statement (no, please, no applause necessary) let me quote Ziggy: "Love is the answer. What [the hell] was the question?" (applause joke from Toastmaster habit - it most often means "sit the f--k down, your time's up!"
I've been gone awhile Derek. From what I recall, you didn't often use individual logic. You seemed to be stuck in "it's all crap and I don't like any of it". Am I off base? You know me, all cards on the table kind of gal. I recall you bucking anything positive without embracing a logical "it feels better to feel good than to feel depressed". You had to choose. So, have you chosen? Jesus saved me too - years ago. I was sitting on the beach trying to accept circumstances and felt like I'd been picked up and gently tossed in the ocean to be re-baptised. It was awesome and ironically, about 12 years after declaring myself Baha'i. It felt good. Since, I know I'm in God's hands and the more completely I can surrender my own judgments, the better off I get. Since then I embraced Eckankar to be more fully involved in daily spiritual practices. Now, my own beliefs essentially are to be a co-worker with God - that means spreading light, love and compassion - not attempting to convert anyone to any particular path or belief. What we believe now may not be what the next person needs on their path at the time.
Long story but the bottom line boils down to - enjoy your path of faith in Jesus without any doubt. That's where you need to be right now so it's ALL GOOD! Doubt is the only enemy. VERY, very glad you're listening!!! Faith will indeed guide you to feel love quicker than analytical distrust and depression!!!
Doubt is logic. I gave up doubt for faith. My individual logic was keeping me from believing in Jesus. I threw logic out of the window for faith. I couldn't figure out why I was depressed, so I threw logical thinking out the window to just have faith and believe I am happy. I found Jesus through faith, not logic. Logic is evil. Logic told me that the bible is simply to group belief and control us from acting as animals, faith told me that God created all and I will have eternal life and happiness through faith in Jesus.
However, questioning is not necessarily doubt. Therein lies the caveat for most believers. When others question their beliefs, they interpret it as doubt. To question is the only way to receive answers. To question is to ascertain what reality is. The old cliché that God loves a skeptic is based on the idea of questioning.
Doubt is different. Doubt is a decision, not a curious attitude.
So, to be clear, good for you for removing doubt for faith. Jesus taught that very well. But be gentle with those you may misperceive as doubters who are actually questioning and trying to ascertain for themselves where they stand in the universe.
Hello Daniel. Good to see you. We can disagree and still play together at recess, yes?
I don't agree that doubt is a decision any more than I agree that belief in a deity is a choice or decision, which I see stated often by believers. It’s flabbergasting to me when people say these things.
Thanks so much Daniel. I tried for years to ignore my doubts, and convince myself that I believed. It was very stressful, not knowing a single person who was a non-believer, or at least who admitted it. Finally I did make a decision or choice. I decided to be truthful, at least to myself, that I didn’t believe. Sooooooooo, it really gets me going when someone throws out that whole “decision” and “choice” card.
Crikey - run a few errands and look what happens... Thanks Daniel - for standing in as the voice of reason in my absence. Doubt is indeed a decision or more appropriately, normally a subconscious 'automatic' decision. Those subconscious ones are based on the programs that run our lives; the ones we adopted as children when we thought our parents were Gods. Without getting in touch with those, change is futile. Bravo again Daniel on sharing the difference between questioning to find ones way and doubt.
Pretty sure that's why there are so many jumping on you in disbelief Derek. I didn't get that you questioned to find out before - nor frankly that you were questioning because of a program in your DNA or subconscious. You came across (and still do) as if there is no logic to belief, faith, or the path we choose to follow. Hogwash! I have yet to believe ANYTHING without solid proof or verification of it's reality. Does that mean there is a reason for everything the disciples wrote in the bible? Absolutely! Noah's ark isn't there because God loves animals. Considering one level of that story, every moment of our lives ought to be better, more loving, giving, less judgemental and tranquil when we study how everything applies to this moment. i.e. two of every animal got along just fine in a tiny boat for 40 days - and you can't get along with your brother? Or sister? Or anyone for that matter?
Now that you have found Jesus, many have shared that it's about the actions you are guided to improve. And not for some silly afterlife belief, but rather for today and each moment you live. Karma is cause and effect - true belief and "being saved" may have you on your knees in a heartbeat - weeping with the realization of how many you've dissed, how many people you've hurt, damaged or scorn because of a shallow belief in materialism and merely what concerns us here on earth. Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the light - that is the path, that becomes the goal. It is not words, not a trophy, not a ticket to continue dissing those who are still lost but rather a burden of responsibility yet we come to truly believe, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother!"
OK hey, clearly, I could go on but I shan't. Bottom line - study and learn about your new path Derek - it is AWESOME and you will become a more logical, better man with each passing day. Faith is the guide, logic is the key to discernment - and as I said before, love is always the answer!
QUOTE: Even believers cannot say that. Why can't they? Because is a biological impossibility. It simply can not be done.
-------------- Biological impossibility? You're not making sense. Of course I can say I have no doubt about his non-existence. I can say I have no doubt about his existence. Faith is not "not understanding all the facts". It's the result of seeing more of the whole picture. The fact that science, religion, people in general often get things wrong at the first, second, and third go doesn't negate what's really there and really true.
When God come How many people will be saved that are alive. the bible states only 144,000, that are alive will be save out the whole world. How many dead will be saved, the bible state a number that no man can number.
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