Well conservatives are typically religious, not always I know. If you were conservative you would at least appreciate the moral guidelines the Bible provides because you would want an ordered sociaty. If the Bible worked, whether you believed it or not , you would encourage it's use.
Thats because I'm stupid. Extracting all variables and classifying behaviors as typical: liberals live for short term pleasure and conservatives typically have longer term goals that provide security and balance. Thats how "I" see it.
I never said you were stupid Sneako, nor do I think it. But by generalizing you are losing out on a lot. But it is your life, and you will do with it what you want. It isn't about short term pleasure Sneako. I wouldn't be working my ass off for four years if I didn't think it would satisfy life goals. Quit making assumptions and generalizations, you don't know the people you are talking about.
We've all been there and there will be those after you and those after them. It's life we had a youth and I had youthful exuberance too. I thought I had it all figured out too. When reality comes knocking it knocks down even the toughest. I was a hippy and so was my wife we did what hippies did. We decided to get married so I went in to the service to help pay for her college. I didn't fight but I had to help put lives back together and I picked up the human debris after suicides and injuries. When I went out the same type people that I used to hang with called us murderers ,spit at us and picked fights with us. That ended my liberal days. And when the gays vandalized the churches in Cal. I saw it all over again. I'm a Christian and I'm proud of it and thats all there is.
But just as you have a story so do I, in addition to everyone else in this world. I would hope that your experience would teach you not to generalize everyone into little boxes and judge people before you know them. Or assume that just because they don't believe as you do that they aren't good people or can't contribute to this world or couldn't be a positive influence on your life. Stop believing that my youth makes me ignorant or naive. I know who I am.
I haven't read all of the answers to this-- it may have already been answered. The early Christian scriptures say this will happen. So? Get over it. Christians should expect this-- if it were otherwise, the scriptures would be wrong.
You're so right! This is actually doubling as typeing class and it's hard to keep up. My wife says thatI'm going to freeze up but I don't listen to her she types well over a hundred words a minute. I know it's coming.
Thats it isn't it? Thats it in a nutshell. Its the harsh treatment of homosexuals. The politicizing of abortion. Tele-Evanglist who in large part are nothing more than con artist. Much of the Religous right is seen as no different from the Humanist left. Rightfully so, in my opinion. I consider myself a Christian. I grew up in that enviroment. I have heard the double talk. I was there when Jimmy Swagart said "I have sin'd"... "I have sin'd against you". I also was there to see the good Christians are capable of. Because I was able to see both sides I decided to, at least in some part keep the principles and throw away the community. The "church" community realy needs to take a hard look at how they are percieved by those they wish to "save". To so many of non believetd, the problem with "born again" people is that they are such a pain in the ARSE the second time around!
I have to say that the trials and tribulations of Jimmy Swaggart and the Tammy Faye and all those other televangelists of that ilk make for good but very brief entertainment. Can't help but snigger. I agree with you that they are a problem but not for one second do they represent Christians to me.
Well I thought that's what we're talking about. People who look at Christians tend to take the televangelist as representative of Christians while they don't look at jihadists as representative of Muslims. Hence they worry more about Christians.
Do not try and justify someone elses choices. Its futile, frustrating and pompus. Set the example. A quiet example makes a bold statement. People see the truth, even when they wont admit it. Hammering someone, or arguing them into a corner only brings out the worst in them and ultimately you as well.
The majority of people in the world believe in some conception of God, Sneako.
This forum is just weird, for one. And 'liberals' in general I don't think hate Christians, either. I personally do not care much for Christianists...which is a different thing...but Christians are OK.
It's a bit like this: The cool kids here are atheists/rationalists, so the others don't say anything, because they don't want to be thrown in with the geeks (lol, which are your 'Christians' here on the forum). Also, the most rational of people, , are relatively keen to keep their beliefs to themselves, because it makes the most sense.
Cool is mostly a function of age and this is a forum. But I do agree most conservatives wouldn't bother with this nonsense because it wouldn't be worth the time. Sterile because you sound like you left your emotion at home.
No, i dont hate any religion person God is one it might be in any religion. The True is only Mankind there would be no differentiate Man is the only True no religion nothing is there. I love every religion people all are men thats the truth rest are bull sit
I am a good woman. I am a great woman. Figure that! A "liberal" and a great person. Goes against every preconceived notion you ever had, doesn't it? And obviously I don't hate Christians. So stop thinking you can speak for an entire group. Listen and learn from others. Because your beliefs and your experience does not speak or apply to everyone.
I don't hate christians ! i have a lot of christian friends, who accept me the same way I accept them. I despise the ones that think I'm a poor sinner doomed to Hell and that they have to pray for me, in order to save me; When they know that I don't believe. I think they're disgusting . They don't deserve my respect.
It is difficult to feel rejected or judged by people, when they have no right to judge who you are and what you believe. Some of the people you are referring to feel it is their God-given duty to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat and end up throwing the "You are a sinner who is going to Hell if you don't buy what I am selling you" mentality at people who reject their pitch. Buying into that negativity and standing in judgment of them for what you believe to be their self-righteousness may be just as bad or maybe even worse than what they are doing to you.
As a born-again Christian, I can't say that I agree with your beliefs, but of course I do accept them and accept that everyone has a right to their own beliefs. I also know that I was not always a Christian, and before I was "saved," I did still hold a belief in God, I just didn't know how to direct it and had never formally been a member at any church.
Whenever a person is ready, the right thing will happen. I think the saying "When the student is ready, the teacher appears" is an old adage. That has always proven true for me. When I was ready to find the Lord, He found me by putting me in the right place.
You can only save yourself. It's a matter of personal decision. If you believe that there is no hell then that is your choice. But the greatest bestselling book of all times did mention hell. I believe it is real.
But why generalize at all? Are liberals making your life miserable? If you really think so, you need to get over it and live your life. Quit generalizing and putting people into little boxes. If you spent as much time as you do categorizing and spreading negativity on something positive you would improve the world you blame everyone else on destroying.
Add me to the list of Christians, BUT - I'm nonjudgmental and very accepting of others. I respect everyone's right to believe in their own form of religion or spirituality, or not to believe in anything beyond themselves. It's their own personal decision. Judging them is "above my pay grade."
I've also found that the "Christians" who are berated on these forums are sometimes very judgmental, and some of them are just downright mean! (not talking about you, sneak) They give the rest of us a bad name. We should be models of tolerance and acceptance - not ridicule and judgment.
We all have a right to believe - or disbelieve - what we chose, and no one should be berated for that. Some of us worry far too much about the beliefs of others when our own beliefs are the only ones that really have any affect on our lives.
My friends are from all walks of life ... believer, non-believer, and those that are uncertain ... and I allow them all to chose their own path.
Cole I'm very simple but I try to walk a tight-rope. A devout Christian and a moderate and sometimes I don't get either right. My wife is saying leave them people alone that meansit's bed time. You're great and keep working hard it's worth it. Good night.
It isn't about "getting it right" its about being happy. That is my problem. People who feel the need to conform to a label, rather than just living and doing what they feel is right. You put people into boxes but don't feel it is right to stereotype. You can't stand liberals or those who aren't Christian but agree it is important to be accepting to those of all beliefs. Just do what YOU think is right. Stop trying to be something you obviously aren't.
Like a few other here, I have friends who are liberals, ultra conservatives, Christians, atheists, and those who are undecided. One of my closest friends is a left-wing liberal from the North, and she's also a Christian - yes, many liberals are Christians.
One thing I love about the US is that it's such a melting pot. We can learn so much from each other if we just open our hearts and our minds. I love "hanging out" with people from different cultures!
You hate them for that? I agree that they contradict logic, but I don't hate them for their belief. If you believe in separatism through belief which is exactly hate, you differ from no Christian. So, because someone chooses separation from you because of your belief means you choose separation from them? A logical mind should rise above a faith filled mind to learn more, not be content with separatism.
Why hate anyone? What is the point? Respect each individual for who and what they are inside, not their political or religious views. Hate uses energy - bad energy. Time is better spent looking for the good and acceptance.
I'll have a coffee with you . . . maybe add a little brandy . . .
I don't think anyone hates Christians (except some radical Muslims) I think a lot of people are just tired of their holier-than-thou attitude to those who don't think like they do. You know, the "you're going to rot in hell forever if you don't believe as the Bible says to" stuff.
There are many paths to God. Those who are zealots should just be happy that a person believes at all and not try to micromanage some else's belief.
I don't think that every liberal hates christians just as I don't think that every christian hates liberals. First of all a Christian shouldn't hate anyone. I am a conservative and a Christian and I do not hate liberals, I may not agree with them. Disagreeing with them tho is far different than hating them. It is discouraging to find however that when I voice my opinion I am often seen as stupid and a back wood thinker. Why am I labelled when I do no different than anyone else by voicing a different view? I do not lose sleep over it at night, but it is discouraging.
I have no bit of hate, not one bone in my physical body, nor my spirit and aura hates Christians or anyone..We are all allowed to believe in what we want, and I feel no one is right or wrong for having a belief..
so go ahead, hate me..it does not bother me, but I will never hate you back just because your rights to belive in any religion you want..
I only have hate for child molestors, theives, serial killers, and dark people...
I'm far too much of a liberal to hate any religious group. On the other hand Christians are people and when Christians are spewing out nonsense about the age of the planet or the facts of life or the justice of murderous wars(a minority I know but still a significant number)I sometimes find my eyes starting to roll in my head of their own accord.
When a great religion is popularized and led my ill educated, self-seeking crowd pleasers as it increasingly is, it is hard to find the tolerance that the New Testament teaches. If Christianity wants respect it needs to reconnect with the idea that God is Truth.
I don't think its imagined ,especially in the forums, that the liberals aren't liberal. They demand tolerance for bizare behaviors and cry foul at those who don't jump in. I'm convinced that had they controlled their urges to act out and had more respect for themselves, they would appreciate the Christian position. The saying "misery loves company" is exactly the case except they demand company feeling "if every one does it" it's ok. It's not ok with Christians and it's not ok with God. It is your choice, free agency, but with every choice we make comes consequences good or bad. To make a choice then demand no consequences is very immature.
Does it have to be Christians against liberals, Sneako? No two Christians are alike, no two liberals are alike, no two snowflakes... etc. How about considering the idea that some people are just apt to feel angry? Besides, I haven't finished my green tea yet!
No it doesn't. I wish it wasn't. And I agree about people but issues in general are pretty much divided. There are variables that cause people to ebb and flow but you either are for some issues or you're not.
@ Sneako: I am for good lively debate (you and marine always put on a good show) about the issues but not about the worth of each others views. I am also not for placing labels on each other for unkind purposes.
I appreciate the discussion CJ, it's unfortunate though there is very little of that taking place elsewhere. If someone disagrees with me that's okay and we can discuss it. However I'm not afraid to get into it if you start verbally abusing me, I try to give as good as I get. And I usually don't do anything until someone starts it first.
I am very troubled by the attitudes represented in these posts. Obviously, we all feel the need to wave our judge mallots from time to time, but the nature of this debate is quite volatile. As far as I believe, we are all children of God and God's love for all of us is unconditional regardless of our belief. Our true form is spirit not body. When we seperate ourselves through belief or through hatred or through violence, we are simply being resistant to our natural collectiveness and the unconditional love that God feels for us. Peace be with all of you. My only advice is to give in to love . . . first for yourself. The rest is quite easy.
I admire your feisty spirit, Flightkeeper. I even agree with some of the things you say... which make you wrong on whatever point that happens to be! (I was kidding with C.J. in case you hadn't seen the post.) Cheers!
First of all , no one should really have anything against anyone, does'nt matter what they beleaive, I personally am a proud christian, but that does'nt mean all I do it "worship" so stop!!!! putting words into peoples mouths!!!! who are you to judge!! seriously, everyone has different things they beleave in, leave it alone, leave them alone and start to worry about YOU.
Charles March, a self-described evangelical Christian and professor of religion at the University of Virginia, examined the speeches of numerous "influential evangelical ministers" in the six months prior to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. According to Marsh, "The single most common theme among the war sermons appeared to be this: Our president is a real brother in Christ, and because he has discerned that God's will is for our nation to be at war against Iraq, we shall gloriously comply."
I am an atheist and a civil liberatarian. That means I fall on the side of a strong sense of personal responsibility. However, unlike the GOP when a company doesn't live up to their responsibilities I say nail 'em to the wall - instead of "we need less regulation". But I digress.
Most of this post will seem like a digression but I'm trying to make my point via an example.
In my experience, the fact that I am an atheist automatically makes conservative Christians call me a liberal even when I agree on many supposed conservative principles - i.e. personal responsibility and small government issues. However, because of their preconceptions, everything I say is viewed thru the lens that I am a liberal. As a result, many questions of politics - such as gay marriage - are viewed as coming from a liberal, Christian hater. That's just not true.
I think gays should be allowed to marry because it is a matter of equality for all. And since I don't believe that the government has any business regulating matters of faith then I also believe that marriage - as a function of government - cannot be a matter of faith. We do not deny atheists the right to marry. Nor do we believe those people who quote the Bible when saying the Blacks cannot marry Whites. I don't think Christian beliefs about marriage should influence the way our government regulates marriage as a matter of law. If an individual church or denomination chooses to not marry gay people that is their right. If you choose to shun gay couples that is your right. However, forcing your religious beliefs about marriage on all of American society is not. There is no hate here but rather a disagreement about the boundaries of government intrusion into religion, our lives and our choices. You can probably guess how this opinion has been received among my conservative Christian friends.
My point is simply that there is no hate for Christians in opinion but my views are still considered hateful simply because I disagree. So when I read posts about "9 out of 10 people hate Christians..." I wish to clarify that there is no hate or malice much of the time. Often times, like so many parts of life, we are talking past each other and not listening at all.
One final observation... The atheists who spend a lot of time trying to tear down religion are no different (IMHO) than those Christians who spend all of their time preaching and trying to convert others. Both do so primarily because of a lack of faith and self-respect. Arrogance should not be misconstrued as self-respect.
The anger response is, IMHO, due to a crack in the armor. We get angry because we don't fully understand our own beliefs. We do not understand the "unknowables" about our belief. And we don't trust our own decision making. Sometimes that is due to a lack self-respect and sometimes it is due to a less than conscious understanding that haven't really scrutinized our own beliefs so we implicitly understand our beliefs have hidden weaknesses.
CHRISTIANS ARE HATED BECAUSE OF THEIR LOVE FOR CHRIST. IF YOU HATE JESUS CHRIST YOU WILL HATE HIS FOLLOWERS...CHRISTIANS. THE BOOK OF ST JOHN CONSTANTLY SPEAK THAT WE WILL BE HATED BY THE WORLD BECAUSE THEY HATE JESUS. (ALTHOUGH YOU FIND MANY WHO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS BUT YET HATING HIS PEOPLE). DON'T BE EXPECTED TO BE LOVED BY THE WORLD. REALITY THE WORLD DO NOT LOVE CHRIST NEITHER WILL THEY LOVE US. DO YOU THINK SATAN LOVE GOD? ...WRONG!
I think this question raises from a rather conflict model kind of approach. This approach is not typical for atheism or Christianity or so, it is prevalent in both (and other) communities. Atheists like the 'new atheists' are notorious for it and 'Christian nationalists' / fundamentalists are notorious as well for this type of exclusive behavior. When you have an open mind though, on both sides of a gap, you can talk with people on the basis of reason, commonsense, mutual respect. As a Christian I have many atheist friends - atheists are human beings and they can be reasonable & polite just like any other kind of people, it's that simple.
I personally love Jesus. He is amazing. I would just like to apologize if any of you have been hurt by Christians. I'm definitely not perfect- often I fall into the trap of religion instead of a vibrant relationship with God.
Jesus hated religion. The pharisees were experts in religious law. The pharisees hated Jesus. He challenged societal norms. He loved those that the pharisees deemed untouchable.
I pray that one day I would be able to see the heart of those I come in contact with first and foremost, the way Jesus did.
As long as "believers" keep ramming their ridiculous crap down our necks, I for one will fight them all the way! I am well over religious hypocrites telling me and my family that we are going to rot in hell. It's your hell, you rot in it!
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