Jesus was said to have acted violently against salesmen in church. Should we fol

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   Joe Cookposted 11 years ago

   Jesus was said to have acted violently against salesmen in church. Should we follow suit?
   
   Matt 21:12 states that Jesus overthrew tables & drove salesmen & money changers out of temple.  He was taking physical affirmative action against misuse of church.  If we are to walk more closely in Jesus' footsteps, if we are to become more like the lord our saviour, should we not follow his example by being more physically assertive, and consequently more violent against injustice in Church?  The next time someone begins sinisterly proselytising for money should we (in the spirit of Jesus) drive him/her physically out of church? p.s. Rhetorical question please don't  actually get violent.

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   Ann1Az2posted 11 years ago

   Jesus didn't actually get violent. He turned tables over and freed all the animals. They were using His Father's House of Prayer to sell and buy stuff on the holy Sabbath. Violence is never justified. I think it is our duty as Christians to set an example. We shouldn't buy or sell on the Sabbath (which I believe to be Saturday). If a preacher is trying to force the issue, then he should be taken aside and spoken to by the elders and/or the parishioners of the church. It should be done with love and a desire to correct the issue, not as a judgement against the preacher. And in no way, should violence be used.

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      Joe Cookposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are mistaken. Jesus WAS violent. It says Jesus overturned the tables. Violence = a physical force intended to damage someone OR something.  Violence is never justified unless done by Jesus? Is that what you are saying?

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      Ann1Az2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus' intent to overturn the tables did not constitute violence because he didn't do it with the intention of hurting anyone, or the tables. His intention was to make the point that they were misusing the temple and that's what was accomplished.

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      Joe Cookposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Ann - The definition of violence is not the intention behind the act but the act itself. If I punch someone with love in my heart - it is still violence. There's no way to get away from this - Jesus' actions were violent.

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      Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's absolutely ridiculous. How can you punch anyone with love in your heart? Only righteous punishment can be like this, and there is only one who is righteous. If God didn't love us, He wouldn't punish evil... But He does. Just trust Him.

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   Mitch Alanposted 11 years ago

   They were not simply salesmen...they were money changers who were cheating the people.  Someone should refrain from openly "doing business" during the service, but I think that believers sharing their businesses with each other is a good thing.

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   Efficient Adminposted 11 years ago

   I always wondered if this verse meant there should not be flea markets conducted on church property, or even perhaps a popular guest preacher selling books in the lobby after the worship service.  Once I was a Mary Kay Beauty Consultant and I didn't want to hold skin care classes on church property because of this verse and instead had them at my house.
   
   To answer your question I believe the scripture teaches if anyone is sinning in the church then the elders should approach and reprove them with love, and if they don't turn from their wickedness well, quite frankly, they get kicked out of the fellowship.

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      Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Anything that prospers our faith sold outside of the church yet within the premises, is for ,me, still pleasing to the Lord, for it is used to glorify His Name.

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   skye2dayposted 11 years ago

   Jesus did not physically handle a person. He overthrew the tables. The money changers were into selling for their own gain. The money people were selling animals as offerings for sin at a huge fee. They were playing on peoples emotions  to make money. These robbers literally stole from people. Jesus never sinned, ever. He acted in discernment. He made known that the church is not a den for robbers  but it is His Fathers House a House of Prayer. If a church gets robbers ( and there are plenty) in this age I would only hope that the elders and or members would say no way out of here and standing firm using discernment. You can be firm and discern at the same time.

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      Joe Cookposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He didn't physically handle a person true.  But violence is physical action against a person OR property.  So we can say Jesus acted violently!

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      skye2dayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      joe cook look up the word violent

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   Civil War Bobposted 11 years ago

   Only if the salesman is wearing a polyester green suit....

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      Joe Cookposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Very good point.

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   SparrowMinistriesposted 11 years ago

   Sure.  Right before we go to the cross and die for the sins of the whole world.  Remember back then they were bringing animal sacrifices and the people were selling animals at exorbidant prices and rejecting perfectly good animals for sacrifice and forcing people to buy their animals at high prices.  They probably sold the "flawed" animals to the next person as an acceptable and expensive sacrifice.  Jesus is the true sacrifice and really the only one to hold them accountable.  Remember too He is the Creator.  Yes we are to be LIKE Him in this world but we are not Him.

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   Ceegenposted 11 years ago

   Jesus grabbed the whip to drive out the livestock, not the people. He was driving out the cattle so they couldn't buy/sell in the temple of God. Kinda like, "Ya know, if you're going to buy and sell, don't do it in my temple. That is not what this is about! You shouldn't be trying to make a profit off my people, who are only trying to fulfill my laws! You're creating a burden for them, that they can't get out from underneath. You've created all sorts of laws, and holidays I didn't tell you to, in order to get people to buy more of your livestock to pay for their sins. How dare you!"

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      SparrowMinistriesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I like that saying, "How dare you!"  Jesus wants us to know that we cannot pay for our sins.  He did that for us. Or at that time was going to do it, but God exists outside of time and so Jesus' sacrifice was in effect even before it happened.

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      Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      God says that in quite a few places, but in more of a non-direct way.

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   Jackie Lynnleyposted 11 years ago

   Jesus was not, nor has ever been violent. Yet you can imagine from this action when all is said and done that it will not be do as you please and walk right into heaven as many who call themselves Christians claim. We have a book and we are responsible to read it and if you want answers you would do well to also. To not love Jesus is one thing but to go after Him? It is something I know better than to do, but then I know Him and love Him and feel His love for me. Only those who do understand His actions cleaning up our Father's worship place that was to be kept holy. He died for our sins, what more would anyone want?

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      Joe Cookposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are mistaken. Jesus WAS violent. It says Jesus overturned the tables. Violence = physical force intended to damage someone OR something.

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      Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So many Christians trying to reason with you, Joe Cook. Why do you fight it? Have you ever actually read it? I'm thinking not, because that's just your perception of the story, not the truth. God bless.

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    Oscarlitesposted 11 years ago

    I think Jesus being indignant that people would take advantage of Gods house caused a human frustration and vengeance within him that he had to speak through his actions, just as we at times reach a place with some situation that we must do "something about it."   It brings to mind that "all it takes for evil to prevail. is for good men to do nothing!"   The only difference here is that as eternal God robed in flesh he is the one that IS allowed to pass judgement on men, and WE AREN'T.    BUT scripture says that we are to judge all things, lest WE be judged. its just not our job to clean up the planet, though Jesus certainly as the Son of God, as well as being God in Flesh, felt he had all the authority to administrate judgement especially in the house of God, just like he did as a boy when he was lost from his parents for three days, and he was found finally in the temple doing "his fathers work".

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    whonunuwhoposted 11 years ago

    Yes there is a lot of the wrong messages sent in some churches and on television about sending money and donating. It is a worthy thing when it is done in goodness and faith. When it is done solely for profit making then this is against the church and should not be supported. We are not Jesus,but only his disciples. It is for Him to deal with the false witnesses of his ways. May God have mercy upon the souls of the wrong doers.

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    Edwinoel Tanglaoposted 11 years ago

    My first question would be: "Did the salesmen and money changers do it inside the temple?" And my second question is: "Are what they were selling anything to do with enhancing or building faith in God?" And my third question is:  "Is it glorifying God or an insult to God?"  Anything done inside the temple meant for personal gain and not to glorify God is never worthy of praise in a  sacred place of worship, a place where worldly and selfish intent should at anytime be vehemently discouraged (may not need to be physically violent as this is not of Christ).
    
    This is plain and simple 'sacrilege,' and if God in Jesus overturned the tables and yelled at the evil doers, is this not a clear and strong message to all that 'no one' should abuse, disrespect or dishonor God's place of worship? 
    
    And in the same light, if the human body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, as in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20, should we not feel more responsible in keeping our body clean and not defiled from worldly stains, abuse, addiction, gossips, bad mouthing and other evil practices which cause us to sin?
    
    Respect and honor to God's place of worship, respect and honor to God's commandments and to His Words which should go beyond all things material in this world, do all these not lead to respect and honor to God and to human life?
    
    Is Jesus not reminding us how truly important love of God is, more than love of the world, where "anyone who loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him,"  as in 1 John 2:15?

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       Ceegenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Voted up, and has my nomination for best answer. Very eloquent, and full of truth.

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    PrometheusKidposted 11 years ago

    I wonder why the devil and interest where the same thing back then? I wonder how interest can rob a man's fortune blindly?

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       Mitch Alanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Unfairly high interest, especially on a fellow Jew, was looked down upon...we are called to help one another...it was the amount and mindset of the interest that was the issue.

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