How do you know God exists?

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ddoingit1posted 14 years ago
My apologies to formulate a truancy of life beyond the mirrors of life is the soul of mind bind of brain, of orical justice of earth to the apologies we are family in this crazy existence called life for to know one another is to formulate the means to an end of fight of retro-butions of not entroducing one philosophy to the ideal we are the means to an end in the knowledge we are the mind of the blessings of the orical of behaviors mannerisms, as to the mirrors of self reflective notion we are the means to an end of terriny past the postropedic meaness of meany meany meany, to the hypothesis, of religion is, we are the turning point with haleluias dream of the other persons dream of and without the desire of formulatory, past the means to an end to lift one is to lift anothers mans dream past the means to an end of logical insicurity of click?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're still high !
  Can I have some ??
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
And why am I not surprised that he still doesn't get it?
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samsbrposted 14 years ago
I did not believe that
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
I don't know God exists. I have only been convinced beyond a reasonable doubt after much study in philosophy and comparative theology.
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bukanposted 14 years ago
If you have faith or trust on God then God exists otherwise not, nothing more than that.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry that is not enough, one needs to meditate , gain enlightenment and know for sure god or ones higher self exists.The source and our home. The experience is very important for one to have, the masters or prophets inspire you to reach that state.
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
A believer's proof: God is real, how else can you explain us being here and why everything exists. When I pray to God, good things happen and they are not coincidences. When my father was cured of his illness, it's not because of the medical practices us human beings developed, it's because I prayed to God. I asked him and things happened, that's proof.

You non believers are all crazy, how can you not believe in god and in the talking snake, a virgin giving birth, a man living inside a whale, water turning into wine and raising the dead when it makes so much sense, you're crazy!!!
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
God exists. If He did NOT exist, we would NOT have faith,religion, spirituality. NOTHING. Just animal instincts, just like the atheists would have us believe.
There would be now law, justice, search for meaning, racism, hope,disappointment, etc. The fact that we have all these "things" PROVES, that either we are a ridiculous aberration of evolution, that produced this "need" for spiritual quests, or there is an innate sense of "something/someone" outside of what we can see,hear, feel, smell, taste and touch.
Get over it, and get on with it.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good try, but all of these things follow from the evolution (or appearance if you prefer) of sentience and in particular of self-consciousness. That is what most distinguishes the human from the rest of the animals.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This argument is not a valid argument. We have been self-aware for perhaps 30,000 years and the earth is 4.5 billion years old.
  
  You expect me to believe that your invisible super being sat twiddling His thumbs for 4.5 billion years waiting to create us?
  
  And then made it appear as though we evolved?
  
  God does not exist. Get over it and stop trying to convince everyone that your beliefs have any validity outside of your head.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He didn't sit around an wait. This is a stupid argument because you are trying to force my position into yours.
  Your position CANNOT include God in it at all.
  Besides, I don't believe you. You are no authority to say categorically about Gods existence.
  I told you before, you cannot know everything. There is room for tons of knowledge OUTSIDE of you.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course I am an authority.
  
  I can think.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That makes you an "authority"?????
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course. I think therefore I am.
  
  Unlike your invisible friend.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think, you must have been an eel, in your "past life". (not that I believe in reincarnation, mind you.)
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Onusonusposted 14 years ago
It is edifying to see testimonies of the reality of our living Father in Heaven and divine Savior, expressed in open forum where we have the privilege to exercise our God given right to free speech. A true testimony born of the spirit cannot be held back, it is bold and uplifting.
It is not the delivery of one’s testimony, or the magnitude of force by which it is delivered, that is important; but it is the magnitude of the spirit, and how it penetrates the hearts of the hearers, deepens the understanding of the human mind, and increases it’s susceptibility to the spiritual gifts of Heaven.
I commend those who believe in God for maintaining their integrity in the face of adversity. Strive to be a Christ-like example to the world.
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
For me the flesh of a man is ample enough as an evidence that God exists, it takes Billions of dollars just to make a strip of a muscle tissue, remarkable indeed, how about the eyes and brain whose power is many times greater than any computers on earth, they will cost perhaps many times over... a single human entity is priceless and living without a purpose is a vacuum...

I will never accept the fact that chance paved the way for my existence. Inaccurate and still unproven until now Evolution Theory, offers a lot of inconsistencies. Read this Theory, hehehe and theory is a theory... This is just my concept though hehehe about God...
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you tried drinking water from the wrong side of the glass?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haven't yet, hmmm, I think I need to look over the thread after few minutes I'm still busy for now, and for the mean time I'll make corrections with my post few minutes ago. Thanks para for reminding...
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Um, because he told me so?
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awareposted 14 years ago
Websters dictionary, in the g,s . you will find god there. it really does exist
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
@Bibowen - we've been round this loop before. You are the one shrugging the shoulders, not me. You are the one saying 'we have the answer', even though your answer is not in a testable form. Far from shrugging the shoulders, I am saying we know far more than we used to, but we don't know everything, therefore we should continue the diligent search.
In the Dark Ages, all inquiry was heresy. The Church had the answers. Yet I think you would be prepared to admit that many of their answers (e.g. Geocentricity) were completely wrong? There are people around today who seem to be advocating a new Dark Age; who seem to say scientific inquiry is unnecessary, because they already hold 'The Truth'. I hope, for all our sakes, that the spirit of willful ignorance can be held at bay.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your assumption that only empirical evidence counts for what informs us is now a failed theory of knowledge that is self-refuting. And since you don't believe there’s a response to these questions, I'm not sure why you’re still interested in telling us that you don't know and that we can't know either.
  
  My claims have been more modest than the mischaracterizations you’ve presented. Given the apparent impossibility of an uncaused event (like the beginning of the universe), the fine tuning of the universe, and our apprehension of a realm of objective moral values, the idea of a creator is more plausible than its negation.
  
  As for your characterization of the Dark Ages, you've got to be kidding? "All inquiry was heresy"? Where did you get this?
  
  "There are people around today who seem to be advocating a new Dark Age; who seem to say scientific inquiry is unnecessary"
  
  Who are these fiends that advocate these unniceties, hurtling us back to the scholastic dungeon and the rack?
  
  Look, I suggest you hit the books; hit them hard before you try to pass off these fifth grade social science characterizations as informed history.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is not my assumption. It is your misinterpretation.I'm admitting there are limits to my/our knowledge and asserting that method properly applied gradually, and sometimes suddenly, fills these gaps. My motive in this forum is to try to promote reason. Thank you for asking.
  Moral values come from consciousness within a social species. No mystery there. The fine tuning of the universe is a myth. What is true is that this little corner of it (and very probably some other little corners elsewhere) has been able to engender and support life for a time. Enjoy it while we can. We already know the mechanism that will eventually destroy the favourable conditions. As for your uncaused event, the total mass-energy of the universe would appear to have been present in the big bang, possibly from the collapse of a 'previous' universe (but note that previous does not have a simple linear interpretation here).
  Can we also agree that my inability to describe precisely how the universe came into being (something that no-one has yet been able to do) does NOT constitute an argument or even support for the argument that a creator did it? The two are not connected. Scientific inquiry is independent of theology. You can't use the incompleteness of one to bolster the other. I could have a field day with theology if I allowed myself that luxury.These points are barely worth answering. Of course there were islands of excellence even in the Dark Ages, but the thrust of the times was anti-intellectual and dominated by church dogma. Why was the era called Dark? Why were the succeeding eras called Renaissance & Enlightenment?
  
  Even in this forum, you can find plenty of people who want to deny or ignore science in favour of dogma. Some even favour torture, though they usually devolve that job to their God.
  
  It is unbecoming in you to suggest I am not well read.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You went from "In the Dark Ages, all inquiry was heresy" to the above. It would have been more concise had you just said "I overstated the case."
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your stylistic suggestions. Motes and beams come to mind.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My earlier statement about moral values had to do with whether or not morals are objective, that is, whether or not they are true regardless of what we think about them or how we come to know them. We don't take them as mere ideas. Ideas like "it's wrong to rape" are taken as true statements and not merely just social conventions that we all happen to agree upon.
  
  As for your theory about our universe being berthed from some other universe, it still does not get at the more fundamental question of why anything exists at all.
  
  As for your "little corners" model, the odds that our universe could sustain life under the conditions you suggest are so highly improbable that they can't be taken seriously as plausible. The "just right" conditions that allow for our existence suggest that the conditions were planned that way.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand what you have against 'mere consensus'. It is a wonderful thing that we are so socialised as a species that we are able to state with reasonable certainty a set of morals or ethics that only the psychopathic few would challenge. Have you ever watched snow falling? Turbulence causes some flakes to drift sideways and even upwards, but the net flow is towards the ground. Our morals are similar - consensus by the greatest number over the longest time. No supernatural source required.Science will never explain why, except in the causal sense (and even then it is descriptive), if, by 'why' you mean 'to what purpose' or 'to whose purpose'. We can tell you 'why' a tsunami occurs, in terms of moving tectonic plates, but not 'why' in terms of purpose. If, as seems likely, earthquakes and volcanoes have no 'moral' purpose, why should the same not be true of collapsing galaxies, black hole formation, the beginning of the universe, etc?Not to me, they don't. And even on the Earth there are plenty places that can't support life. And our neighbouring planets can't, and neither can anywhere else we have yet discovered. But I have no doubt that life forms exist elsewhere in the universe where conditions are right.
  
  Imagine a maggot that suddenly acquired consciousness. It would look around it and say - this rotting corpse must have been planned, because it is just perfect for me. It would see the desert and the rocky places and might say - If I had been born there, I could not have survived, so my lovely rotting corpse is so improbable that it cannot be chance.
  
  And it would be missing the point, as you are, because it could not have been born anywhere else, except where the conditions 'happened' to be right.
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  David Bowmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What you are describing is known in physics and cosmology as the 'anthropic principle.' It's quite an elegant explanation of the "fine tuning" if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It has always seemed to me to be just a more sophisticated level of Geocentricity, necessary to save face because the earlier versions have been so conclusively debunked.
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  David Bowmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Precisely. It's also another example of a "God did it" argument from ignorance.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It never ceases to amaze me how many words it can take to say "god did it."
  
  And there seems to be this belief that if they say it over and over and over and over and over and over - eventually they will convince some one. This is why they like to get you as a child.
  
  Their "moral code" allows them to do this to children "for their own good."
  
  Tell a 5 year old this often enough and they will believe it.
  
  Sad really.
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  David Bowmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sad isn't even a strong enough word. Despicable is more accurate.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't want to be accused of being militant.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All those words to say "God didn't do it."
  
  Really sad.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I appears you do not understand plain English. Allow me to explain.
  
  What I actually said was - religionists like you are guilty of child abuse and should be punished by the law.
  
  Really pathetic and disgusting. Jesus would be proud.
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  cbfglassposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Original Testament
  
  Recovery of ones inner will
  often times lost at the start
  evolves into life’s quest
  which for some seems hard.
  Corralled by Sheppard’s praising
  their obedient blind flocks
  lead many on wayward path
  away from my heavenly stars.
  Rotate away from the norm
  begin ones self journey home
  trust your guide with heart
  in the mirrors of his eyes
  you will discover yourself
  silhouette but ready to start.
  COPYWRITE CALVIN BRUCE FUSSELL
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  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Keep yelling at the sky grandpa.
  
  Evol mark! I'm sorry your ridiculously strong faith in atheism has been misplaced, but if you want to challenge anyone’s faith start at home.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Accusing someone publically of child abuse is a mistake.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? How is that exactly?
  
  My opinion is that indoctrinating children into your religious cult before they are capable of making a decision for themselves is abuse and they should be prosecuted by law.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As usual, you guys appear to have a remarkable talent for putting words in other people's mouths and calling that which you apparently don't understand "ignorance."
  
  What Barrow and Tipler (B&T) offer is a true statement, but an unremarkable one. They tell us that we should not be surprised that we are alive in our universe, because if the universe were not the way that it is, we wouldn't be here to observe it.
  
  Is that true? Sure, but it's trivially true. Given the high improbability of a life-permitting universe as opposed to a life-prohibiting one, we should be suspicious that we are here. As Brandon Carter very modestly put it, we may not be central to the universe, but we seem to be "inevitably privileged to some extent."
  
  I also note that you did not offer that element of B&T that challenges your position, namely, the fine tuning that was apparently present at the beginning of the universe. Of course, B&T dismiss the exactness of certain physical constants as "fine tuning" just as you've dismissed it ("of course the electromagnetic force is the way that it is....we're here, arent't we"? so it goes). But I have offered a response to B&T that they, in a fancy way, state the obvious, but skirt the point.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Consensus" itself can't be "wonderful," "fabulous" or any other superlative given your commitments. On what ground do you stand to magnify it? The reason why "mere consensus" is inadequate is at least for three reasons: first, the implication is that any action, no matter how horrid can be justified under your approach. I think the implications of your view are dangerous and provide no limits to the monstrous acts of the past such as those of Dachau or the Killing Fields.
  
  But second, consensus at times comes into conflict with what we know to be right and wrong. We know them to be true just as we are aware of our own existence and the existence of others. We know that it's right to love a child and we know that it's wrong to take a child, stick a stiletto in the base of her skull, extract her brain matter, and kill her while she's being born. Such actions are wrong even if the majority says they're right.
  
  Finally, how do you distinguish between the mentally insane and those that disagree with the consensus? The persecution of Christians in the former Soviet Union often proceeded under the mantra of "mental illness." They were declared such merely because they would not cooperate with the Party. Belligerents, like Solzhenitsyn, were considered "mentally ill"; today they're admired as champions of liberty.
  
  So, consensus is not the rule. Consensus is a means. It's good if it upholds objective moral values and bad if it doesn't. When the US Congress banned partial birth abortion, consensus was used toward a good end; when consensus kept in place slavery in the antebellum South, it was bad.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I recognized the lion by the print of its paw --- Quotes Isaac Newton
  
  The syntax and context of this writing is very familiar to me as well as its structure...
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is a snide way of saying that you think I write here under more than one name.
  I do not.
  I write as Paraglider. If you are interested to know my real name you will find it on my profile page.
  If you suggest again that I am writing under another name here, you are in effect calling me a liar. I suggest you should not go there.
  You can apologise if you feel like it.
  You should, but either way, I don't much care.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Right on Que Q!
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
Because Evolution Theory is inaccurate and filled with a lot of flaws that is why I believe that God exists...

Just a point of view...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hehehe
  
  Just returning the favor boss, chief, manager ... nothing personal...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What favor? I thought you were making a joke. You don't actually base your belief in god on the fact that you do not understand science - do you?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever Mark...
  
  My work spreads my time and energy thin already...
  I have some facts with me to prove the existence of God through Science (Hope so) and facts through Science that will expose The Evolution Theory's weaknesses... But I think spending a lot of time to explain them in a hub or forum is very laborious and painstaking...
  
  You said a lot of times that God doesn't exists but I'm saying otherwise that's why I mention favor...
  
  But all seems to have great ideas about both sides athiesm and thiesm...
  
  let the best group wins...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You would earn a Nobel prize if you could, somehow that's highly doubtful considering your other posts.
  
  I suspect that is a lie, however I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt to do so. Again, a Nobel prize is waiting for those scientists, please inform them immediately.
  
  But I think spending a lot of time to explain them in a hub or forum is very laborious and painstaking...
  
  Is that what you think this is about, winning and losing? How sad.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's not really a point of view, it is merely a dismissal of facts based on misinformation.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're the one dismissing the facts and btw you don't even know what fact means in Science eh....
  
  Theory not equal to Laws
  
  But law is equal to Fact
  
  Therefore
  
  Theory is not a fact
  
  Get the equation...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dismissing what facts? What have you provided as fact?
  
  No, what are you talking about?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just made re: of one of your post I think you already lost my friend...
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waynetposted 14 years ago
Because I am god and I have a beard and even if god was a woman then she'd have a beard too, because life is funny like that!

I wonder if my powers will start to work soon, because I've strained really hard and all that comes out is poop!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing wrong with poop. It makes room for more hamburgers.
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  waynetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's what Elvis said!!
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jacobkuttytaposted 14 years ago
My life is an example of God's existance
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is the death of a quarter million people in a single event an example of gods existence, too?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes!
  In the bible it says that God despises his creation, he fooled it, and that he's an avenging and raging god.
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terrowhiteposted 14 years ago
My life is an example of God's existance
......

Dude not only yours life is an example of God's existance, in fact we are are the examples of the eternity's existance..
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very good.Now please prove that you exist.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not by chance as what evolution theory tell us, is it?
  
  Would you agree that you exists by chance... ?
  
  Would you also agree that your ancestors are apes, if this is so then every apes had evolved to humans and there will be no more monkeys around?
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here's the paradox,we exist through our own perception which is subjective therefore we cannot be Objective(objective applies only to agreed upon subjective perception).Since each of us exists in a closed loop until death frees us it is Impossible to PROVE anything.Life is ordered because we agree on many points of our subjective perception.
  the entire Creation versus Evolution argument is silly.
  If you carry it back far enough both came from the same source.
  By the way,my ex thinks she married an ape but then,she also believes I can live without a heart cause shes always telling me I don't have one...
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If it is subjective with respect to being objective why dare someone to ask his/her existence... when you cannot prove anything...
  
  Given the chance you ask that to me, I would certainly say not by chance, never... Because I know how precious I am... Do you know that it takes Science to build a single muscle tissue worth more than billion dollars and with uncertain results, now how about the wonderful organs you have with you, that would cost so much indeed by a very very whopping sum... The activity that goes through with the network of nerve system of a brain will outperform any powerful computers on earth even those powered by the latest nano technology... How about your eyes... robotics fall short in creating a machine that acts like humans because of the great intricacies that involves human vision, how about the other vital organs in your body... They will cost more than the earth if you will count all what you have in your body...
  
  That is not silly man, that is a serious one. Many Atheists believes in Evolution and they are millions of them, that is fine since that is their freewill though. But what is saddening, is the thing that they believe in is a hoax and inaccurate, even Charles Darwin would like to Recant all of his works because of the great challenges and suffering he had to go through before dying, but it is too late already and his manipulated works were already published...
  
  They do not come from the same source Buddy the other from chance the other from a Supreme Being that alone refutes your words.
  
  You have always the heart man... you are not just properly equipped on how to use it well. I guess I stand corrected with this since I have no right to give any impression about somebody else when I don't encounter him/her in person.
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry it took so long to reply.you are correct about the body as a marvel of integration but thats not the point.The continuum of existence continues infinitely so creation may very well have occurred.The question is,Was the design or essence of Life placed here in an amoeba or a fully formed human?Both have the essence within them.Atheists use the words Order versus Chaos.Believers say God versus Satan.The entire argument between Atheists and Believers is a question of semantics.If you step behind the Words to the true meaning both groups live the same precepts..Have you heard about the 2050 Singularity?It has been projected that at current acceleration in computer technology a computer with artificial intelligence greater than a human brain will be built.Some believers say it will be"The Abomination that causes Desolation".It will happen that a machine smarter than humans will be built.What then?Philosophers have been trying to find PROOF of there own existence since the beginning from Socrates to Aquinas to De carte etc.It always comes down to the same "throwing up of hands".You have SELF consciousness,That is not verified because you CANNOT step OUT SIDE of your self.It is just as possible that everything your senses tell you is a figment of SOMEONE ELSES Imagination.YOU could be someone's dream.
  
  By the way,The comment about my heart was a joke that appears to have gone over your head...I will not subject you to my sense of humor again,My sincere apology...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, I see you don't know the first thing about evolution, which is what I suspected. Thanks for confirming. So much for that Nobel prize.
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dumbethposted 14 years ago
I know God exist because if he didn't he wouldn't have kept me alive till this very day.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it seems he doesn't want you by his side !
  How sad !
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How cruel and judgemental.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not!
  
  Cruel and judgemental is Christianity.
  I'm just stating what's obvious.
  By christian beliefs
  I didn't make them up.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you have a tendency to apply semantics rather than understanding in this case. The hurtful demeanor you use is not neccessary. Why do you always apply belief in God to Christianity?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this a joke ?????
  
  Christianity < believing in Christ
  Christ < Son of God
  
  For your Christ's sake !!!!!
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your simpleton approach really shows you don't know what you are talking about.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  ralwusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum darling, that is the worldly church you are talking of. I am not that way at all. I don't belong to any worldly church. I am a believer though. I don't need no stinking robbing crusading churches. BTW, you are correct.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course I wasn't talking about you, my friend !
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So instead, he had put to death a quarter million people in a tsunami so you could live till this very day? How is it that you're so special?
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
I know God exist, he exist in my heart!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't always use that heart in your post's.
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what do you mean?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know what I mean. You know the difference between heart and logic.
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  marine I have studied philosphy for four years, i grew up in the Philippines, my ancestors are pagans, but my closest forefathers are Catholics, we are already Catholics the moment we were conceived, i have challenges in life, I struggle through my own faith, there was a time i doubted because I cant prove the existence of GOD phenomenologically and all the reasons and logic I have learned, but I always believe in my heart there is a GOD...
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that a person can believe whatever they want to believe. That is and should be an individual right. I am saying religious teachings teaches you to use heart along with logic. Not logic alone.
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi pdh how is it going been busy with the religion forums recently hehehe and I'm having a blast here literally...
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it is ok, it is what I call masturbation of the mind, pardon my words, you gotta have a stand and respect is all, thats all there is to it, congrats GH< 100 YAY
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks a lot, you just don't know how very happy I am reaching that plateau... I'm at par with emievil now I hope in terms of score but certainly not her great Hubbing attitude... emie is wonderful Hubber and I look up to her...
  
  Yeah Atheism is lording it over here but like David I want to make my presence felt to show how good our God is, not by using Scriptures but with the universal language which is Science I hope I will hold my ground with God's help... People here., especially the ones that are non-believers are indeed enormous and very intelligent too...
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean fighting for God? Is fighting logical? Is it logical to ever believe that everyone will have the same belief of a God or creator or evolution, no matter what each side says?
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are a good writer in your own rights Professor,yeah I might fall in love with ralwus aka Charlie, hmmm, ask emie first
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are giving in to the powerful words of this Charlie eh... hehehe...
  Hey lover boy walrus share some hehehe not continuing anymore nyahahaha...I might get censored wakikik....
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
I like the illogical, I know he is because it defies logic.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is why people loves you, you are so unpredictable nyahahaha... ohh your with that avatar again hehehe emie might see you nyahahaha and eventually fall in love with you... and pdh too nyahahahaha... Just joking aside...
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
Well I knew that because it ain't me love. Woot! sexy woman!
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
@ rhamson

If you're looking for a fight,
you are wasting your time!

Your posts don't make any sense
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear lady if I was looking for a fight, I would find someone who knows how. Not you. I only respond to your posts because it is so easy to expose your biased uneducated and thoughtless musings. Really you should take a look at yourself and not spend all your time judging others and trying to make them feel bad. Cruelty is easy and by your postings I can tell you have an affinity for easy.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thanks for the laughs!
  
  By your statements I see you don't know anything!
  trying to make me feel bad ?
  Wasting your time !
  I'm not going to say why, or I'll get banned !
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then have a good day as I see a civil tongue is beyond your abilities and I would hate to see you banned. Your posts are most entertaining and predictable to the conversations.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So kind of you !!!
  I'm surprised !!
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Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
"How do you know God exists?"

Oh I just know. That's all that matters.
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
I am a believer and love dear tantrum. Please don't speak to my dear friend in that tone. It isn't fitting or gentlemanly or lady like. You don't know her as I do. She is fun and loving and yes, opinionated too. Love her anyway. Try not to take offense in here by anyone's post. I don't.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks dear friend !
  
  but you know me.
  I can't care less, what this type pf person thinks of me
  I know who I am !
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry ralwus. Tantrum seems to disrespect a lot of people with her rantings and ridicule. I only respond to her closed opinions when she makes cruel and uncalled for attacks. As she states that she does not care what I think of her I only respond to her sarcasm and bullying approach.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what a waste of time on your part !!
  don't you agree ?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People wouldn't believe you are a waste of time unless you yourself believed you are a waste of time.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And yours as it seems
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No! I never waste my time.
  I love to make people show themselves as they are.
  It's very interesting, and I learn a lot from it
  
  No wasting time for me
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And all this time I thought she was a he. Are you sure ralwus?
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  ralwusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes, I am confident in that. trust me fully! completely female. Most lovely creature too.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Good mornin Tantrum and ramson,
gotta go get a part for my heater, got cold last night without it. Down in the 40's out side, maybe 60 momething in side. Aint it funny, in the summer some people like it like that. We'r Always fightin nature.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think we have the ability to use logic and find common ground which separates us from other animals of nature. Some refuse logic and common ground.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mornin To you too Marine; Yes whether we know it or not there is always some common ground; somewhere between shivers and blisters.
  
  ransome wrote.. Never a dull moment when we get to going is there
  
  Mornin again... I never did wanna get into boring
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gm. How will common ground ever be found when everyone believes their belief as absolute? Not possible without faith. Logic would say that it would never happen. Possibly it could be done with logic and then faith. I wouldn't say that's absolute.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Never a dull moment when we get to going is there
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
Well, she does love it so. Just be kind and try to get to know her better. She's quite harmless you see? Trust me on this one. LOL
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wise words ralwus, I will take to heart. Thanks
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
You're quite welcome. there was a time I and many others thought she was a guy. haha imagine our surprise? LOL
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
For the ones who don't know
I explain everything here

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/24850

i'm off now
C U later
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awareposted 14 years ago
god exists in word form
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, the dictionary doesn't count as a supported facts of God.
  
  But, nice try.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
The egg shell I think
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
So, no egg shell supporting theories?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  your evolution cannot even state which came first... hehehe...
  
  HOw was that denno.
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer that the bacon comes first....not the egg nor the chichen...but the bacon. And if you could put bacon BITS on it as well....well, then we got sumpthin. Snap!!!
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ohhh common...
  
  Reply like that will not change my views being "theist".
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm messin' with ya...cuz...well...that's what I do
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awareposted 14 years ago
tiger woods in critacal condition
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Q, I think what you continually did to Picard was cruel, but effective.
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Stimpposted 14 years ago
Again, ya'll are using BIG words....slow 'er down a bit.
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awareposted 14 years ago
can i believe my way? or should i think like you do?
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awareposted 14 years ago
ill be the troll if it makes you guys happy
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lets troll together !
  
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With a case of beer...and we've got a party.
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  Neil Sperlingposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum -- you are a hoot <--0-->
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awareposted 14 years ago
i have troll doll hair. no lie .i can shape it just like you can the dolls. just by pulling on it. i can make a wave out of it that surfers would die to ride
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But can we shake you to straighten it out....THAT is the REAL question.
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awareposted 14 years ago
yes yes you can
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Alright, then you are a true troll. I can take you to Bingo and perhaps you'll bring me luck along with my bright pink dobber.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Bibowen telling Paraglider to hit the books, now that is the stuff of good comedy!
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It did give me a chuckle, I must admit
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spiderpamposted 14 years ago
Our kids are being indoctrinated everyday not by science, but by evolution. Science means you review ALL the facts and come to a conclusion no matter what it is. Evolution closes out any free thought and counter arguments(there are a lot of them) and if you question the “wholly” theory you’re fired. Tell your kids they’re an ape. Why be surprised when he acts likes one.

Say AHHHHHHH!.
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell your kids there's a god but you can't prove it and be surprised when they don't believe.
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  spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We all have choices to make. If you don't believe that’s you, but plenty of Christians grew up with atheist/skeptic parents. God can do anything with anyone’s life. Seek and you shall find. Spiderpam out~
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  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Looooooong time spider!
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
we don't
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
we still don't.
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
@Bibowen - Once again, you fail to understand what I mean by consensual ethics. I am not talking about a vote taken among the holders of power in a particular locality and time. I am talking about the general consensus through thousands of years among all non-psychopathic people - that same consensus that is responsible for the remarkable similarity between the moral codes of all major world religions and philosophies - that same consensus that is instilled in our psyches in the form of conscience. It is the product of consciousness in a social species; it is not a revelation by any supernatural power.

On the other topic, why we are here, you have not given any substantial response to my previous explanation, so I needn't offer anything further.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I do. You've explained this before. What you seem to fail to understand is why your assessment is inadequate. I previously raised the issue that what you offer is an adequate (for the most part) history of ethics, but inadequate for a moral framework. I raised the example of slavery and how your system fails to offer an opposition to it. The moral opposition to slavery has been a recent historical development. Given its recent arrival as morally prohibited and that it has not been totally vanquished world-wide, an assessment of the history of ethics does not provide you a clear affront to it.
  
  Second, what you offer is a mere "feeling" that is agreed upon by a "sufficient" number of people over a "sufficient" amount of time. However, your code cannot account for how some of these feelings are not mere feelings, but "rules" that we should either keep or prohibit. Furthermore, there is no good reason why anyone should live in accord with these "feelings."
  
  Third, you assume "agreement" is somehow a moral virtue. You assume that those that don't agree with a consensus are "psychopaths."
  
  My problem with all of this is that "consensus" is not inherently good, but you seem to assume that it is. As an example, these guys are in agreement
  
  but I hope that you can see that agreement is not enough.
  
  In the end, you will use force (whether physical or social) to impose this agreement and call those who disagree with you "psychopaths." And that's why I said earlier that your "consensus" is the will of the mob. In many respects you are no different than the tyrants of the past who have imposed their will on others. They also claimed to be doing what they were doing for the benefit of others and for the common "good." We can only trust agreement to the degree that we can say that such agreements are "good" and promote the "good."
  
  Your system fails to distinguish between what actually happened historically and what is morally right. In your view, whatever happened is right and should be imposed upon others under the fear of being ostracized.
  
  A more comprehensive assessment that comports with our experience is that we do know that there are some things that are right and wrong, that they are so, regardless of historical happenings, that we apprehend them as right and wrong, and that they have the quality of a rule to keep. This conforms with what the Bible says that God establishes the rules of right and wrong and that God has placed them in man's heart (Romans 2).
  
  It's only as these rules are in some transcendent ground that we can make sense of them as being invariant and binding, something that your system, in-and-of-itself, fails to accomplish.
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Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago
So - is slavery OK with the invisible super being or not?

Bibowen - perhaps you can answer? Seeing as you speak with God's voice.

I know child abuse is acceptable - you already told me that.

Sex before marriage is OK for men but not for women.

But I am keen to know about the slavery.

Because I am apparently not capable of determining this for myself.

And the secular laws are no good because they were not written by god. Or came about by consensus - which means no one would follow them - like all Christians do with the rools in the bible.

You really are funny.

1800 years of not following the rules laid dopwn and you are trying to tell us what to do. I would make a considered response - but it is clearly not worth doing so.
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
Sorry - I have tried very hard, but I fear you are a lost cause. You have gone so far down the path of exclusive self-righteousness (masquerading as Godliness) that you cannot even hear what I am saying. May your God go with you, and goodnight.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose some will be convinced by this dismissal as a refutation. Good luck on that....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - you have convinced me Bibowen............
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
Mark - crossed in the post - obviously I was addressing BO.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
  
  The phrase "talking to a brick wall" comes to mind.
  
  Quite apart from the obvious - no Christians follow the rules - this non-adaptive system is not a practical.
  
  I mean - are organ transplant acceptable according to the bible?
  
  And if so - are "grown" acceptable.
  
  Religionsist want to keep us in the dark ages - just so they can continue to abuse their kids.
  
  Sad.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
The saddest part of this topic is that NO ONE can truly know that God exists.

And, anyone tell you that they KNOW he/she exists is a LIAR out-right and not to be listened to or trusted.

Plain and simple.

The Human Consciousness, the power of sense of life, can not be fooled by the mind, into belief that is 100% solid. It's not possible to erase all doubt from the mind, because our nature as humans, base our own individual sense for telling what's real.

The Human Conscience can NEVER admit honesty, when forming a belief in a so-called God, because it knows it's wrong to form a belief on the basis that have no facts.

Lastly, the Human Subconsciousness, also knows for a fact, there is a more powerful essence of life and that power is your hidden potential that could be released, providing you understand your entire life and it's true meaning.

This leaves everyone on the planet with DOUBT about God's existence. Hence, the only conclusion that can be reach is as I stated when I opened this single post.

Have a great day people.
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bojanglesk8posted 14 years ago
No one can know for sure.
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
And no one will ever know because it's not tangible.
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