Do unbelievers know everything?

Jump to Last Post 1-50 of 68 discussions (538 posts)

59
uszealotposted 14 years ago
Does any sane person believe that humanity has learned all there is to learn about the universe? I sincerely doubt it. Yet when unbelievers dismiss as impossible those things which superficially appear incompatible with our current understanding of the universe (e.g. the existence of a "spirit world", the Genesis account of Creation, the miracles of Christ as recorded in the Gospels, the very existence of God, etc.), aren't they implying that we do know all there is to know?
reply report
1. 59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying we should accept the ridiculous because we cannot "know all there is to know"?
  
  At what point is it reasonable to apply common sense?
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is ridiculous? Is anything that can't be perceived with the physical senses ridiculous? Is the "big bang theory " ridiculous? Einstein and most of the scientific community once thought so. Is the concept of dark matter ridiculous? Can you see, hear, or feel dark matter? Or antimatter? or even gravity? Does that mean those things do not exist?
  
  I'm not saying we should or should not accept anything. I am only saying that to dismiss as impossible or "ridiculous" anything that is not compatible with our current understanding of our universe is to greatly limit the potential for discovery. Perhaps mankind's greatest limitation is its own narrowmindedness.
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i hate to seem disrespectful but the only people who appear to be "narrow-minded" are Christian people. scientific minds have, through the ages, been the ones to question everything, imagine every possibility and attempt to find the truth, not just blindly accept what others tell them as fact. how can you talk about "mankind's limitations" when scienctific innovations have cracked open the Universe?
  reply report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Is the concept of dark matter ridiculous? Can you see, hear, or feel dark matter? Or antimatter? or even gravity? Does that mean those things do not exist?)
  
  If you talk about concepts then that's what they are: CONCEPTS. People have conceived of mermaids swimming in the gaseous oceans of Jupiter. There is no problem with concepts until someone insists that they are reality. That is when "proof" knocks on your door. The person making the positive claim needs to provide proof.
  
  There are hundreds of claims posted on the net each day. I don't see you or anybody else accepting them as fact without proof. What makes your claims so special so as to be exempt from proof?
  
  Also, if you claim a concept "exists", it only exists in minds. If you disagree, then for the purposes of science you must propose an unambiguous definition for "exist".
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a difference in "accepting" and "not dismissing as impossible".
  reply report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you serious? So you are ACCEPTING all the hundreds of claims everybody and their brother proposes on a daily basis? Both you and I know that you don't do that
  
  A claim, any claim, is not deemed to be possible or impossible. Science doesn't deal in likelihoods. If the claim is "reality", science will study it. Science is the study of existence.
  
  If you don't like the constraints imposed by science, your other options are:
  
  1) Using any system of logic, prove that the claim is true in reality. Even if it cannot be scientifically tested, prove that it is logically true.
  
  2) Use religion/faith-based arguments to demonstrate your claim in the context of a specific religion. In this context, your claim is ALWAYS true!
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So I should not apply common sense then?
  
  Because I cannot "see" gravity - I should not dismiss the relgious garbage spouted by Christians as "ridiculous."
  
  I should not dismiss the ridiculous notion that we are "born in sin" and god died to save us from our sins as being utter garbage.
  
  They could be right when they say that the invisible god is offended by homosexuals.
  
  Interesting. And this is being "open minded,"?
  
  I should not look at the evidence for evolution as being in any way indicative that the Genesis creation account is not to be taken literally.
  
  Sorry - I need to apply some common sense to what I am prepared to accept as reasonable and just because I cannot see it does not mean it exists.
  
  Plus - of course - your religion is ridiculous. Sorry.
  
  At best, I could become an agnostic - but it is much more entertaining to take a solid viewpoint that god does not exist - if only to listen to the ridiculous argument that because I cannot know everything - I should not dismiss it.
  
  But we can dismiss all the other gods, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and unicorns and the Tooth Fairy etc - because they are just silly.
  reply report
  65
  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot Santa, Mark! How dare you
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Another case of Santa Syndrome
  reply report
2. 0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not at all. in fact, scientific people acknowledge that the entire body of work that Man has done is just the tip of the iceberg to what lies yet undiscovered. there are many scientists who believe in God, past and present.
  reply report
3. 61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is 'we' ?
  who are you ?
  reply report
4. 65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The existence of a spirit world is unprovable and so cannot be categorically denied, that is right.
  
  The Genesis account of Creation is just dumb, thus the reason for not believing it.
  
  Miracles are probably performed at certain times by certain people: I don't see why not, so I agree there.
  
  God, too, could exist, it can't be proved otherwise, but the God of the Bible is a weird cookie, so let us hope he doesn't at least (I mean, maybe a slightly different version might be ok -- and you probably couldn't disprove the existence of a God like that, but lay off on some of the weirder stuff: things have got to square with common sense, and logic, at least to some degree; isn't that the criteria we use as human beings "made in God's image" to decide what to discuss, and what to forget: we're not just monkeys after all )
  reply report
5. 61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This argument is so idiotic I took about 10 minutes deciding whether to respond. Now I am, it seems so glaringly obvious what the mistake is to everyone, I'm not even going to make an effort.
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Going to Hell with us ?
  reply report
6. 0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great topic. Don't worry about mark if you want him to go away ask him to prove molecule to man evolution without voodoo. He'll flee then.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No - he won't. Sorry you cannot understand that even if evolution was a lie - your beliefs are still nonsense. Sorry.
  
  You must be very angry. I don't blame you.
  
  I would be too.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right. Imagine... a religion that says -
  
  If you believe explanation x about molecular biology you cannot enter the presence of God!
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha Do it again ACT sympathetic! It’s funny and revealing. Just remember you don't need to prove your myth. Just keep screaming it's true, bring back evol guy. 0+0=?
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, Dr. Gerald Schroeder (two doctorates from MIT)has shown that The science of the big bang and Darwinism are completely compatible with Genesis. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 891971315#
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLO
  
  So - are you open to the idea that you are delusional?
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again I say, Genesis, Smenesis. If you are a Christian aren't you supposed to be focused on Christ -- the bits about him are written hundreds of years after Genesis was put to paper, and appear hundreds of pages after Genesis in the Bible. It seems to me that some of you guys are Genesistians not Christians -- who cares about Genesis; heck, who cares about Evolution -- I thought your purpose here on earth was to be an embodied witness of Christ's transforming power through the good works that are the fruit of your faith: not armchair biologists -- you're in the wrong job
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See that’s blind faith, you must be an evolutionist. God told you to test all things and hold on to truth, He tells us not to believe every sprit and to be weary of so called science. We know Moses existed for a fact and he was descended from Adam. Jesus often quoted from Genesis so we know it's a fact. You can have blind faith, but that's not Christianity.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look, I may no longer be a church-attending Christian, but now you are insulting all those good, card-carrying evangelical friends I used to have -- why should I believe you over them!!!
  
  I'm not an evolutionist because I am not a professional biologist. I suspect evolution is right, but, frankly, I don't really care that much. I also couldn't care less about Moses (despite the great beard). Why should I?
  Tell me my friends don't believe in "real" Christianity again and I'll poke you in the eye (though I suspect I'll need a long finger -- I am very far away...)
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay?
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I'm fine, thanks for asking
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good to hear.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will assume this is what you are trying to say.
  
  Please answer my question.
  
  Are open to the possibility that you are wrong and are under a delusion?
  
  Nice though. Very condescending. You are a christian - right?
  
  Also - are you open to the possibility that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the One True God?
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Flying Spaghetti Monster IS the True God. It said so on an old manuscript I found and have taken as literal truth
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is impossible to deny unless you know everything.
  reply report
  0
  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "prey" for me
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Play on words - you wouldn't understand.
  reply report
  0
  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can't spell, I understand that! Education, get some
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  zing zing
  report
  0
  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark writes goodly
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha!
  report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Then please explain how nothing (no space, no matter, no energy, no void, no god) can surreptitiously create 3-D objects like stars and planets. The doctor is pushing yet another blood line to Yahweh & Allah.
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Law of Cause and Effect, God being the uncaused cause.
  reply report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Every effect has a cause, and a cause is an effect from another cause.
  You said that god is not an effect and does not have a cause.
  This means that god cannot partake in any cause & effect in reality because god self-refutes the laws of causality.
  Therefore god is only a concept!
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope it means we wouldn't be here if there was a infinite regression meaning God must be personal and purposeful, and eternal.
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let me try and explain (as well as I can) in terms of dimension. by definition we see a change as occuring over time, although, in a one dimensional universe everything is at one infinitely small point and hence theoretically 'nothing' without latter dimensions. These dimensions could have come into being regardless of time (or outside it's constraints, but then, there was no outside, but infentissimal inside XD), as time is one of them, so time could in theory have started without having existed. This then begs the question as to whether time does exist, which is something now being challenged by some.(but I do not know enough to fill you in exactly, and at the moment that area is almost entirely speculative, aside from proving quantum equations without means of time)
  
  The reason this is a hard concept to grasp is out understanding of the world relies so much upon progression in 'time' that it is nigh on impossible to discount it from the equation at any stage. Still, while these theories are tough to prove, more evidence is always going to come along, while humans live to persevere and explore
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting thoughts, but that's not what science says. You want put down Christians for not knowing science then when we use science you jump to philosophical babble.
  
  Explain how something can come from nothing in contradiction to the first law of thermodynamics.
  
  The universe is experiencing heat death as predicted by the second law of thermodynamics. So how do evolutionists justify proposing that energy always existed and had no beginning?
  
  What is the evidence that the universe increased in its order and complexity after the big bang in contradiction to the second law of thermodynamics.
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I bloody hate you. You know why? Because my answer to your question WAS THE COMMENT YOU WERE QUESTIONING. Did you not read it or did it translate itself in your head into some sort of mush of uncomprehension? Do you want pictures with that?
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love you, I hate no one!
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do I have a say in this? or are you now just coveting?
  report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Also, don't misuse science to your own false ends. When you give me a FULL explanation of the Laws of Thermodynamics, equations and summises intact, then we'll talk
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why? I know what they say, you don't. Will it really change your worldview? Nah.
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You evidently don't, or you would have told me
  
  Now go ahead, go search on google You MAY actually learn something.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  EVASION! Classic!
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, it's stuck record here again. Why does it *matter*!
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know it wasn't a passing Martian who caused it (or, in this case, him)?
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "passing Martian"! LOL
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually didn't you know it's turtles all the way down?
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  marry me.
  
  marry me NOW.
  
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Given you're in the Southwest, and I am northeast of the Northeast (with a giant snowstorm heading for me as I type), this will have to be a cybermarriage
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With cybersex, of course
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you had me at Calvin and Hobbes
  
  those turtles were just the icing on the cake.
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it's amazing what an effect Calvin and Hobbes has on chicks
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that what the church taught you?
  
  Here's a tip for you: In the system of classical logic, anything resolving to infinite regress is actually a logical INDUCTIVE PROOF for an eternal context.
  You have just PROVEN via induction that the universe is eternal.
  
  Good job
  
  I know, I know, you didn't see this one coming. I've nailed William Lane Craig on this one before. It's one of his favorite BS arguments!
  reply report
  79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Schroeder is a religionist, what else would you expect?
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If he flees, it will only be to escape your lack of knowledge and refusal to understand his logic, which seems to me to be undeniable.
  
  Keep it up Mark!
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you say so. Do you want to learn about evolution I'd be glad to give you a lesson.
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can try. Although I might be able to pick you up, you see I am actually fairly clued up, and have a fairly wide Biological knowledge. Give me what you got
  
  Oh but keep it short, because I'll be honest, my attention span can fade if something is uninteresting Then again, make it interesing and you shall obtain my undivided attention.
  reply report
7. 75
  thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think tis is a very strange view to take, you are suggesting that lack of knowledge is proof of God?
  
  Most scientists are more than aware of what they don't know, from Gravity to anti matter. Scientists are not particularly against religion, though mostly they are against the specific existance of God.
  
  Please remember that most people disbelieve in God because it is similair to Father Christmas or the Easter Bunny, not because of any actual scientific basis.
  
  As with Santa Claus etc, unbelievers have no real concern about other peoples belief, that is generally something that happens between other religions. I mayself have no belief in God because I view relegion as just another fairy story. It has it's uses, just as Santa Claus does, but it's something that should be grown out of, and definately be the cause of the misery in the world today.
  reply report
8. 69
  pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They usually know a gullible fool when they meet one.
  reply report
9. 61
  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sarah Palin
  reply report
  79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The thing about your stock answer Ron, is that it is indubitably correct!
  reply report
  61
  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It helps with my carpal tunnel. Now if I could only condense the other activity that aggravates it.........
  reply report
  79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  reply report
10. 83
  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just different approaches to knowledge. Many non theists are evidentialists, meaning that something is only accepted (tentatively) as true based on the evidence that supports it. And only objective (not subjective) evidence will do. The issue is that theism, by its very nature, lacks such evidence. If someone's approach to knowledge is evidentialist then it is very unlikely theistic belief could be something they can accept as true.
  
  In terms of accepting the possibility, for some non theists I don't think it's about thinking he/she knows everything there is to know. I think it's about believing that unless there is evidence either way anything we say is merely speculation, and is therefore irrelevant to the business of getting on with life and dealing with the things we are (reasonably) sure of.
  
  Don't fall into the trap of making generalisations about non theists as if there is only one kind. That's as untrue as the belief that all theists are the same. There are bigoted non theists just as there are bigoted theists. There are sensible non theists as well as sensible theists. For the most part it's the difference in approach to accumulating knowledge that separates the two. That's a disagreement between two philosophical positions, but it's fundamental to the way some people live their lives.
  reply report
11. 58
  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, they're implying that there is no evidence or proof that a "spirit world" exists.
  
  The lack of logical abilities in religious people on these threads never ceases to amaze me.....
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Having spent most of my life dealing with spirits one side of the fence or the other, I can tell you categorically that the spirit world exists and is in fact much more 'real' than this mirage we live in.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just curious......are you taking any meds? Because what you are shoveling is just sad.
  
  reply report
  0
  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  starting trouble again?
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just asking a question. That's all.
  reply report
  0
  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, the way you ask, perhaps?
  reply report
  58
  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Honestly, I agree with you there. You need to use some tact when conversing with people who are not apt to believe in it. "Proof (for me)" WILL NOT WORK.
  reply report
12. 53
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and in fact believers imply they know absolutely all there is to know based on their scriptures. Their first failure is their mistake to assume their scriptures are correct when compared with other sriptures.
  
  Of course, we haven't learned all there is to learn, that will take time. But, it would be folly on our part to make assertions for the supernatural simply because we don't have the answers readily available.
  
  The rational or open mind will entertain any and all possibilities. Accepting those possibilities is another story altogether. An open mind will not accept the supernatural. Big difference.
  
  The mind of child believes that which cannot be perceived are real. An adult grows out of those childish beliefs.
  
  One would not be telling the truth if they claimed to "know" god.
  reply report
13. 59
  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Brother! People need to say "I don't know" a lot more than preach to you on one side or the other of the argument. Any sane person has to say I DONT KNOW FOR SURE.
  reply report
0
Denno66posted 14 years ago
God spelled backwards is...
reply report
1. 61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is the Dog ?
  reply report
  71
  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you two are going straight to hell!!!
  
  ((make sure u wait for me before the fun starts!))
  reply report
  65
  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey girls, wait for me please!
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tickets for you too !
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry MOW, I bought tickets for you !
  reply report
2. 66
  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That just about sums up the intelligence that is shown here by the self same unbelievers.
  This sort of thing belongs to 8 yr old kids.
  reply report
  71
  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  are 8 year olds allowed in hell?
  reply report
3. 74
  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As a dyslexic atheist I agree There Is No Dog!
  I tried to commit suicide once but I kept jumping Behind the train!
  reply report
87
Len Cannonposted 14 years ago
Are you arguing that agnosticism is the only valid theological viewpoint since no one can know everything? Is that your pro-religion argument?
reply report
1. 59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point, but no I am not arguing that. An agnstic says "there may or may not be a God. I don't know." Therefore he is not dismissing the existence of God as impossible. He has an open mind.
  
  Believing in God used to require a great leap of faith for me. I did not "believe everything I was told" as an earlier post suggested. But as I've gotten a little older, and hopefully a little wiser, I've come to understand that the most real things of all are things which cannot be perceived with the physical senses. Now God's existence is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of knowing.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - are you open to the suggestion that perhaps you are mistaken and under a delusion of some kind?
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you?
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Will you answer the question please?
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you get shut down with your faithful belief on the second page of the thread? You can't answer a simple question? Who is the limited mind? You fear to think or answer a question in fear of your belief. Don't use logic, God might get angry with you.
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HA! I didn't get shut down, friend... just had to go have a life for a while. To answer the question... I'm open to any suggestion...make your case.
  
  As I read many of these posts, it strikes me as ironic that so many people can demonstate such rank hostility towards something they believe "does not exist". Personally, I don't believe atheism exists. I have no hostility toward atheism, because it is only a word... nothing more. I can't see atheism. Nor can I smell it, hear it, taste it, or feel it. Therefore, it does not exist.
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You refuse to accept the thought that there could be no God because it challenges your faith and belief. This is not a logical belief when you are scared to think about something.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOL
  
  Just another religionist. Sorry Marine. He is closed to anything other than he has the answer. And they wonder why they are despised? LOL
  
  It is because they are incapable of thought, and wish to inflict that on all others. Fortunately - they are poorly educated, incapable of argument and will be gone soon.
  
  Not soon enough but still....
  
  Oddly Ironic that they are unable to understand the hostility they create when they claim to have the easy answer, and refuse to engage in conversation. And the obvious lies in starting threads like this with a thinly disguised agenda. And it is apparent that their ridiculous, pathetic god does not actually exist.
  
  He is just here for a fight - the same as all the pother religionists.
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! That's civil... Anyway... Answer this question. How is it ridiculous and pathetic to believe in a creator, but perfectly logical to believe that the whole universe spontaneously come into existence from absolute nothingness?
  reply report
  59
  uszealotposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry that other people do not believe the same rubbish you KNOW to be true.
  
  You must be very angry to need to lie about it.
  
  Civil? Oh - you mean like avoiding any and all questions to push what you KNOW?
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look whose talking. What a sad little man, you must be so angry to continue to regurgitate Dawkins, as "original" thought . Keep going it’s funny! I’m sorry your irrational faith in atheism is misplaced. Remember keep to your creed, avoid questions, pass the buck, sarcasm lots of sarcasm. btw You the church 50 hail Dawkins.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am very, very sorry your beliefs have been proven garbage. You are another angry one. I don't blame you. Perhaps if you questioned evolution it might make you feel better?
  
  Seeing as jesus has failed to come back.
  
  Angry - yes. I would be too.........
  
  What question was that again? How old was noah?
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a sad little man, you must be so angry to continue to regurgitate Dawkins, as "original" thought . Keep going it’s funny! I’m sorry your irrational faith in atheism is misplaced. Remember keep to your creed, avoid questions, pass the buck, sarcasm lots of sarcasm. btw You owe the church 50 hail Dawkins.
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  2 Peter 3:2-4 (King James Version)
  
  2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
  
  3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
  
  4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
  
  Hey, that's you Mark, so God knew of your arrogance and ignorance all that while ago!
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOl
  
  How about that? People will scoff when you tell them that god did it and dinosaurs are really giant cud chewing rabbits.
  
  Prophecy right there that is
  
  Must have taken a god-like genius to work that out.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More lies and delusion Mark, you just cannot help it, you are compulsive and wrong, mixing my replies to you and your fellow travellers trick questions, validly answered and not refuted by BIG EGO MARK except with puff and wind laced with LOLOLO and stupid smiley faces.... if you can't answer, please don't just make any more of a fool of yourself
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing more arrogant than your belief that promises rewards and favoritism for believing as absolute.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...and why are you defending MK?
  
  Your problem is with God, not those who believe His word to be truth and follow His commands, God made the statement, it's not my problem if it burns unbelievers to read scripture that hits the spot despite having been written centuries ago.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol I read your belief book once and understand it better than you do. You were busy reading the inside while I read the inside and the outside. You are still in the inside.
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Marine, it doesn't do any good to read it, over and over again. It's out of context and 99% is useless. It's been out of context for centuries.
  report
  0
  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You unbeliever!
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's where all the excellent interpretations come in.
  
  I thought if something is logical, it shouldn't need interpretations. lol
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interpretation is a lie, because the truth is obscured.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's because there was no nothingness and no creator. Just show one of something that is created - just ONE.
  The universe is eternal as PROVEN with the help of your friends: thetruthhurts2009 and William Lane Craig. See page 5 of this thread. You people are so out to lunch that you don't even realize that the cause/effect argument is for an eternal universe. Priceless!
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lets rephrase that question, why don't you create something physical, out of nothing?
  
  ....and YOU were created, from building blocks supplied by God because all your daddy and mammy did was take their part, they and no other human being has any idea how to create a child from nothing, ONLY God can do that.
  
  Psalm 139
  
  1O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.
  
  2Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
  
  3Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
  
  4For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
  
  5Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
  
  6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
  
  7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
  
  8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
  
  9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
  
  10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
  
  11If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
  
  12Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
  
  13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
  
  14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
  
  15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
  
  16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
  
  17How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
  
  18If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
  
  19Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
  
  20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
  
  21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
  
  22I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
  
  23Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
  
  24And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
  
  BTW, you forgot to answer my refutal about Christ hating Christians... guess you had no answer after spreading the lie and then being proven wrong?
  reply report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (lets rephrase that question, why don't you create something physical, out of nothing?)
  
  Hey Fundie,
  Nothing can be created from nothing as it violates the Law of Identity. Read the PROOF that your fundie cohorts, including William Lane Craig, have inadvertently produced showing that the universe is eternal and NOT created.
  
  Read and comprehend some English before rubbing your tush and replying with your heart.
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Go wash your mouth with some soap before you spout off.
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You claim to have a logical mind when you have a belief that contradicts logic?
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Marine, just because YOU can't see the logic in our belief, does not mean it's not there, it just means you can't see it.
  
  I spent 41 years suffering the same fault in my spiritual vision before it got repaired.
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your belief contradicts logic. If it had logic, the logical and the faithful would believe, not just the faithful.
  
  Is it your logic to kill people when you get angry? God killed when he was angry. Run circles to get out of that.
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ?...... Strange reply, it's perfectly logical to me to understand that this world is just a mirage and that the REAL action all takes place in the spiritual world which most folk cannot see, so don't believe exists.
  
  God does not kill on a whim, because He gets annoyed, in the old covenant where he destroyed people, whole tribes, cities, nations, and yes He did do that, but it was always after many warnings and attempts to correct the error that caused their destruction.
  
  Today God has been warning mankind for 2000 years to change their ways, and mankind has been getting worse and worse, so yes God will destroy the whole thing again, one last time.
  
  But in the scheme of things (with a spiritual context) it's the right thing to do, because humanity has become a stinking mess of sin and it's getting worse.
  
  Guess you won't like that either!
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol I like how you state everything as absolute truth because it's what your bible says. I'm sorry it's too complicated for your limited mind to understand every individual has a different truth. Your belief is not the right and only belief. Sorry you can't accept this. You are not the favored one.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Marine, you can believe whatever you like, that's the great thing about Gods word, if you don't like it, just ignore it, but the whole thing about belief is that we believe what we personally have decide is truth, nobody wants to believe a lie.
  
  So I have explored life for about 47 years and been through most belief and non belief systems and found Christ and the bible to be true.
  
  Now if I had ANY doubt about that, I should get back to searching again, after all I searched for 30 years all over the world before I came to faith in Christ, so why stay in one belief for 16 years unless I was 1000% sure it was correct?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "you state everything as absolute truth because it's what your bible says"
  
  That's also wrong, I state it as the absolute truth not because the bible says it is, but because unlike many posting here I have examined both sides of the fence and proven (to myself) that what the bible states is truth.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The logical truth is usually in the middle. Not on a specific side. You are dependent on a side.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am dependent upon a God who has proven Himself to me many many times since I surrendered my rebellion against Him.
  
  How can I believe more in a lack of belief, than I do in a personage that I know well and meet with every day, who guides my steps, who deals with my enemies, and who has proven His love for me so much over the years?
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if you can believe more in a lack of belief or not. Is it logical that a belief should be limited to a book? I never said it couldn't be logical to believe in a creation, I said the bible isn't logical.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...and I said that I (and a couple of billion others) do find it logical, so why are we discussing something that we cannot agree about?
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol, Those believers don't have a logical belief, they have a faithful belief. We are discussing this over and over because everyone is insane.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Fundie,
  
  There is NO absolute truth. I have proven it. And you already know that because I have crucified Plantinga and Bogle on the same cross - and right in front of your eyes!
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that absolutely true? No. It's a self defending statement.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, here we go again with your nonsense. If you don't know what predicates are in English grammar, no wonder you believe in a god!
  
  Why don't you try refuting my proof? You know where it is. I didn't see a single fundamentalist posting anything about this absolute truth garbage in my hub. They are all pooing their pants out of fear of having an intellectual confrontation with me.
  
  Are you SCARED? Is there FEAR in your soul?
  Bogle and Plantinga are TERRIFIED of me!
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I find this particular statement and question, pretty irrelevant, because the reality of the situation is that there people sitting in front of their computers.....making statements like this.
  
  I mean come on.....what kind of fear could be generated? Like, really, do you think those who are believers are going to remain and battle? What kind of thinking is that?
  
  And, to top it off....you're trying to goat them into an intellectual battle with you? Now- that's is TOO FUNNY!
  
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not only is it funny, it's stupid funny. Everybody and their brother keeps yapping about absolute truth, yet nobody, and I mean nobody, has proven a single example of absolute truth.
  
  Do you know why?
  
  Because 'absolute truth = God = RELATIVE TRUTH'
  Get it?
  
  If you can't prove one, you can't prove the other
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What proof? Show me proof. Is evolution true? Prove it!
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The cat's been out of the bag a looooooooong time ago. Did you just wake up? The proof is in my hub. Go chew on that and then rip me to shreds why don't ya.
  Oh, and invite all your fundie friends to tear me to pieces. It will be fun.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Man, you got a lot of blind faith.
  
  What evidence suggests that mutation and natural selection changes have no limits?
  
  Why have new body plans not developed since the Cambrian explosion?
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Atheism-is-Inte … -Dont-Jump
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually his statement is a lie.
  
  There is NO absolute truth. It a lie. Truth is evidence. Evidence is facts linking to the truth, through deductive reasoning, and rationale. Truth is an absolute in and of itself.
  
  Just simply because it's part of our objective reality. And, NO reality is not different from person to person. Reality exists free of independent thoughts, desires, will, or wishes. Everything is knowable. That doesn't mean we know everything, because there is always something that is unknown. Hence, science discoveries change our objective reality when made. Hence, Medical science develops new medicine, cures become a reality.
  
  The truth is that every person has the same reality and therefore has the same truth. One only has to accept truth for what it is and move on.
  
  The bible- has not factual truth in it. End of story.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, just the end of your story, you simply cannot see what 2.5 billion other people can see... I'd say you are the one chasing rainbows...
  report
  79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  2.5 Billion people , most of them poor and ignorant with no hope in this life. Easy pickins.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does that make their opinion worth less than your opinion then?
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only rich people know the truth.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh how wrong we can be, rich folk rarely know anything about truth... most would not even recognise it!
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell that to Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Paul Getty ......
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, none of them would know the truth if it bit them, you do not get rich telling or living by the truth, you get rich by legally stealing from other people...
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which is a simple truth.
  report
  79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The difference is that I am not poor or desperate enough to hold on to any fairy story that offers hope in another life. Understandable, but sad that many people have nothing else.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So that does make their opinion worth less than your opinion then?
  
  Having the ability to decide whether you believe in God or not is dependent upon being rich and comfortable is it?
  
  Surely if your lack of belief was superior you would be out there in all those poor peoples areas showing them the positive effects of non belief?
  
  Maybe even being a missionary for nothingness?
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @aquasilver
  
  Your words, not mine...
  
  2.5 Billion people , most of them poor and ignorant with no hope in this life. Easy pickins.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually it was ernest that said that, if you check back...
  
  Your apology is accepted.
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just because you have 2.5 billion other fools to go along aside you doesn't change the FACTS of the reality.
  
  God doesn't exist.
  
  Your groupies of religious occult can have their say and even feel justified in doing it.
  
  But, every single time that one of you people(religious fanatics), rant.....remember- I know what you are - and come around the forums, claiming truth.
  
  You're sad. And, it shows you really don't understand a damn word the pathetic book you read from.
  
  So, please.......you live in a mystical belief of an entity that doesn't exist. The fact that you spent so much time unbelieved or whatnot, and then found God- is really sad, that you couldn't do it on your own. You had to accept help from something that doesn't exist.
  
  I'm seriously hoping you would seek help tho.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where are these facts you speak of? Show them, when you look in the mirror you see a creation with morals and a conscience not a reformed ape.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol why are you so angry at ape's? What did they do to you, steal your bananna?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cags, I care not one jot what you think or say, you are an irrelevance.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (There is NO absolute truth. It a lie. Truth is evidence. Evidence is facts linking to the truth, through deductive reasoning, and rationale. Truth is an absolute in and of itself.)
  
  You are not making sense here Cagsil.
  Lies told in court are evidence. People lie in court every day and that is evidence. So how can only truth be evidence? That is contradictory. Evidence doesn't necessarily have anything to do with truth. Truth is proven!
  
  If you are under the impression that truth is absolute, then go read my hub on Absolute Truth and please feel free to refute my proof by showing just 1 example of a proven absolute truth.
  report
  0
  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Poor professor Bogle. I'm sure he probably appreciates you dragging his name all over the forums (and fyi, I seriously doubt, even though you have an obsession with him apparently, that anyone else here even knows who you are talking about).
  
  I personally think you should tangle with Spinoza over absolute truth. Oh, that's right! You aren't a REAL philosopher, just somebody (ahem) who like to post zany, nutty attacks on people over the internet.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pastor Bogle has been hung to dry along with Pastor Plantinga. They have tons of extremist fundamentalist ideas, but no proof.
  
  But I see your obsession with me is everlasting - just as I predicted in my last post to you. Here's a tip for you: I am NOT interested in you! Get it? You said you'd stop posting to me but you haven't. If there truly is a God, you would have stopped already
  report
  0
  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why would I be interested in somebody who is...uh, well...as you are? You've got to be kidding. Or fooling yourself more likely. Sick. But I find posting peoples' names over and over like this and what you did in another thread nothing short of bizarre.
  
  And Spinoza clearly would chew your trash up for breakfast and spit it out. But then you are not familiar with his proof of the absolute, are you? Tool and fraud.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I told you I'm not interested in you. Why is that so hard to understand? Enough already! Please God, knock some sense into this lonely woman! Good, I'm glad you like Spinoza. Go harass and move in with him. I don't want you! Get it?
  
  P.S. Spinoza did not prove anything absolute! Nice try tho
  report
  0
  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are a complete joke hiding behind some avatar and attacking people over and over.
  
  Clearly you are not familiar with what I'm talking about concerning Spinoza...if you even know who that is. But hey, that's cool, as you figure no one else here is familiar either. Except maybe for the other person to po you enough that you post 'quotes' by them (taken out of context and adjusted for your benefit) on your profile.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  looks like you won that round....
  report
  0
  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, the one making the claim for God always wins. And wins without proof too. Now that's something magical!
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not magical, just Godly, God always wins in the end and why not, He wrote the script and we are merely players!
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Script? You're life wasn't planned. No one's life is planned. It happens as each individual thought and action occurs.
  
  What planet do you live on again?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ephesians 1
  
  4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
  
  5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
  
  6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
  
  7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
  
  8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
  
  9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
  
  10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
  
  11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
  
  12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
  
  I always find it amazing that God wrote these answers to people 2000 years before they even asked the question!
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I find it amazing you actually think that the garbage you just laid out actually has meaning?
  
  WOW!
  
  You really aren't too bright. I already know the 'bible' has no factual truth in it. So, you using scripture isn't going to help your cause.
  
  But, nice try.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said, your opinion is irrelevant and scripture will answer your every question whether you like it or not.
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DUH! It's suppose to have all the answers----too good to be true.
  
  I would've thought you figured that out. But, instead, you come in here and ranting, telling all of Us, that it is factual truth. When it's obviously a lie.
  
  Damn man, you got to get some better lines that this. The stuff your peddling isn't being bought. Regardless of what you say.
  
  Keep on praying and biding your time, until your dead. When you die long before I do, you won't be any the wiser.
  
  Enjoy. You believe a lie. Your belief is founded on a lie. Since you perpetuate it as truth, that makes you what? Exactly, I'll let you figure it out on your own.
  
  Give you a chance to use your mind for once.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are presuming I will die before you? how foolish...
  
  Luke 12:19-21 (King James Version)
  
  19And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
  
  20But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
  
  21So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
  
  Like I said, God had you sussed before you were even born...
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You keep thinking that.
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In what end, aguasilver, God always wins ?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In every end, yours, mine, even Cag's and fatfist, God wins over all of them in the end, because He's God.
  
  You can't prove or disprove that until you die, but when we do, we find out.... GOD WON.
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're funny.
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  As I'm not playing that game....
  If God wins over you all the time, why do you live? Where's the excitment of life ?
  That's a foul play
  I pass, as always !
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with you Tantrum.....no game here. Life very real.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Plenty of excitement just watching His plans come to fruition, checking off His prophesies being fulfilled, seeing silly men believe that they are 'doing their own thing' when in reality they are puppets being worked by Satan.... yep, it's quite exciting seeing the world come to an end!
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Hell it is !
  I'd love to see your surprised faces when there's no God to turn to !
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But tantrum, if there IS no God to turn to, we won't look surprised will we, use the logic God gave you!
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What if you die before god doesn't arrive? Logic that one.
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  What's up BC?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whenever I die, I either meet God, or there is nothing to meet because you were right and all I am is worm fodder.
  
  Either way I am content, especially as MY personal experience and evidence shows me that God does exist and I do have a relationship with Him.
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't try to fool me, sir !
  Maybe you wouldn't look surprised, but I'm sure you would look lost !
  
  Did I say I was logic ?
  But, Are you ?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum, I won't 'look' anything, if I have been wrong these last 16 years and the personality I meet with daily, who guides my life and protects my family, is actually non existent... well then I would just be as dead as you will be.
  
  It surprises me that people think (or don't think) that such complex things as we humans just happened along, that there is nothing else superior to us in the whole universe, that our lives are inconsequential and that when we die that's it.... strange for such intelligent folk.
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Intelligent folks use their intelligence instead of their idealism as you do.
  your ideal God doesn't exist. The proof is this real world,without God or Gods to protect us.
  where are they ?
  Can't see them anywhere!
  report
  79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's because he is busy finding a religionist's car keys instead of feeding the poor!
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you feed the poor?
  Do you clothe the naked?
  Do you comfort the lonely?
  
  Just asking...
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's those intelligent comments and smiley faces again, time for me to go to bed, you guys carry on mocking and laughing....
  
  See you tomorrow no doubt!
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you have to answer my last post first. I think ??
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which one was that, I thought I had you all buttoned up!
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  About God's sex
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You want to know what sex God is?
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. Where's his sex, the one he used to have a son. and as I said, please facts, not fairy tales-
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you can't see, so what? it does not affect Gods existence nor His ability to intervene where He is required to do so.
  
  What is the problem with you all, nobody who believes is concerned whether you can see, prove, argue against or whatever concerning God, it's simply not relevant to people who have a relationship with God.
  
  You may as well try to persuade believers that their parents never existed.
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  didn't know God impregnates women
  Is he a parent ?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One son, died saving humanity.
  report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  where God has his sex then. give me facts not fairy tales.
  report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God kills Women, Men, and boys. But keeps little virgin girls to rape. It's all in the OT.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol, you are right. Faithful will believe only what they want to believe without the use of logic.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How more logical can you get than believing in someone who you meet daily and who guards and guides.... you know the rest!
  
  It would be illogical to disbelieve in that person....
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How logical can you be to claim you meet the holy spirit and have cookies, milk, and conversate with each other on a daily basis? Is Elvis there as well?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come along and find out, all you need to do is declare to God that you give Him the authority in your life to make Himself known to you, no fingers crossed, Marines honour and all that, then wait and see what happens.... if He is not there, you have nothing to lose.
  
  It took me 18 months to realise that God was actually taking authority in my life and things were changing for the better, so don't expect microwave faith...
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It took you 18 months to realize that God was actually taking authority in your life?
  
  The only thing in your life that happened, was that you figured out an easier way to to live your life. And, obviously, it opened you up to spreading the false message of religion to others.
  
  How kind of God? to impose you and his will on our lives. Again, you're sad, you're no better than the pathetic pope. And, yes, this time I am not capitalizing it, because it has no more meaning than your belief.
  
  Again, sad.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol Submit my mind to a bible that contradicts an individual mind and life along with all logic. I'll pass. lol Instead of diagnosing me, diagnose yourself on why you are so dependent to be part of a group belief. Possibly because it makes you feel better when more people share your belief as it gives you confidence your belief is right. The mobb isn't always right. You submitted to the mobb. The bible doesn't require an individual mind.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good morning...
  
  I did NOT say submit your mind to the bible, I said submit to God, the God you say does not exist, so if that is so, give Him the AUTHORITY to enter your life and make Himself known to you.
  
  How much of a hero do you need to be to submit to a God you say does not exist...?
  
  Where's the danger in that?
  
  (listen.... I hear demons quaking in you!)
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol You make no sense. You say you believe the bibles version of God, then you say you don't have to submit to the bible. So you don't submit to the bible god?
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Confusion reigns, but that's normal when the devil gets rattled....
  
  I'm saying that YOU don't need to submit to the bible in order to INVITE GOD to make Himself known to you.
  
  IF you then find God clearly exists (because you decide that He has made Himself known to you) then you can choose what to do next:
  
  Pretend He never contacted you.
  Accept that God exists and do nothing about that.
  Accept that God exists and ask Him what to do next.
  
  I guess there are other options also, but the main point is, would you be willing to GIVE GOD the authority to contact you directly and show Himself to you?
  
  You can decide about the bible when and if you find out that God exists.
  report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell him about the dinosaurs,Daddy - That should clear all this confusion up.
  
  Satan prolly didn't know about the dinos huh? Made thu evurlushun stuff up coz he dint no about the dinos being on the Ark.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, I think you have slipped into your Evo persona with this reply, you definitely sound like when you were pretending not to be you, and the bad grammar is identical to Evos mumblings... did you just get tired of having a spilt personality or did you therapist warn you that it's not very sane to do what you were doing... of did HubPages finally decide that ghosting was wrong...
  
  In any case, if you have nothing intelligent to say, why bother?
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps you are confusing personality with mental disorder seeing how either one is so far removed from the dogmatic borishness you are so used to?
  report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Probably best to ignore the point I made in favor of a personal attack then?
  
  Good for you. Well done.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look he's playing human again come say the line "I'm sorry your......."
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Point Mark, what point, all I saw was a few senseless mutterings;
  
  "Satan prolly didn't know about the dinos huh? Made thu evurlushun stuff up coz he dint no about the dinos being on the Ark"........hardly counts as intelligent points to be answered nor even considered coherent.
  
  I posted biblical evidence that God told mankind that the earth was round centuries before scientists confirmed the same thing. In the history of mankind 12 men in the USA have seen our earth from space, and guess what, it looks like a great big circle...
  
  You chose to try and ridicule the scripture describing what sounds very much like any dinosaur concept presented by scientists... these are your problems, not mine.
  
  And my observations about your split personality (You were after all pretending to be Evo something for a while)were just that... observations.
  
  I have no need to attack you personally and that is not my intention, I would be happy to have a sane and rational, well written and grammatical response to any of the scriptures I have posted pointing out your errors.
  
  Unfortunately you seem incapable of advancing beyond bad spelling, inane comments and stupid smiley faces to illustrate you posts.
  report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh - in that case.
  
  You have repeatedly stated that the bible mentions dinosaurs and used this "scripture" to justify your contention that dinosaurs waked the earth at the same time as men.
  
  This makes everything else you say totally worthless. Especially when you quote scripture you do not understand.
  
  Sorry - you do not have any authority. Neither does your ridiculous book.
  
  I hope that is more clear.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well more coherent and it expresses your opinion well, unfortunately your opinion is just that, you are entitled to hold it, as I am entitled to hold my opinions.
  
  Pity you resorted to a snide little dig with no merit for your last sentence.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Apologies, penultimate sentence;
  
  "Sorry - you do not have any authority. Neither does your ridiculous book."
  
  Opinion. no basis in fact, and worthless!
  report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh - you mean you did not understand when I played with the vocab and grammar to pretend I was only 8 years old?
  
  And now I have spelled it out for you I am having a dig.
  
  And no - it is not a matter of opinion. Sorry you do not understand why that is the case. Doesn't really change the fact that all the rest of your "scripture" is totally worthless and without authority.
  
  Now lets address the fact that for hundreds of years - men though the earth was flat - because the bible called it a "circle" - not "round" not "spherical" not "shaped like an orange."
  
  A circle.
  
  A two dimensional shape.
  
  Go.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is this?
  
  report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  An oblate spheroid.
  
  They had them when the bible was written.
  
  What do you think it is Daddy?
  report
  0
  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think its a photo of Earth, E A R T H Earth, say it out loud.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is it intelligent to make comments about the devil getting rattled because someone doesn't share your irrational belief?
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, it isn't any fun repeating myself, but you continue.
  
  You are FULL of it. And, I've about had my fill. First off, since I can obviously see- what no one wants to say? or it's either they are just too kind..I am not sure....
  
  But, you my evil sir- are not helping society, you are simply confused, because you rather run away from your own life, then embrace....we get it.
  
  But, for you to go anywhere and spread LIES...Yes, they are lies. About the "Bible", because for a great many years now- the bible was proven wrong and not of factual truth.
  
  Yet, YOU are here perpetuating as fact. Hence, making YOU out to be a ?
  
  I rest my case. Go and crawl back under the rock you came out from under. You're no different than the POPE, everything he speaks is a lie too. You people are sad.
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Insanity has but one condition above any other; a delusion is so because the holder of untrue, illogical beliefs is in no way capable of seeing reason outside his own reality. The connection of thought intertwined and locked shut by fantasy and self centred interest in one end goal, protection of the ego and the object of its fear, the possibility of chance, the opportunity of opportunity, the true nature of self, master of itself. The insane do not know of their insanity, such is the nature of the beast.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone is insane.
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe.
  report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I think you are right on this one.
  
  Certainly is a sliding scale.
  report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Man, even you will be dead before the world comes to an end.
  
  You'll never see it happen.
  report
  0
  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. My only claim is that you 'argue' like a crackpot, therefore (and somebody help me here if this logic is not correct...for I could be wrong, indeed), you must be a crackpot troll.
  
  And I guarantee I'd pick a good looking person around my age to 'be obsessed with.' You don't qualify. Nice enhanced projecting quotes (psych 101) now posted on your, quote, quote, 'profile' though. Maybe I should e-mail your true obsession, too, concerning certain searches.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  report
  0
  Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  'Pastor' B. You should have seen the page of vitriol 'Fat' laid out concerning him a few days ago.
  report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, that's great reason to believe something. Get tired of searching for an individual truth and believe and give in to a deception to govern a one conscience belief. Thats what your belief book is, a government. It governs you through your conscience. What is government? Government is opposite of freedom and "free will". It is logical to say your bible is contradiction to a free mind because it is a governed belief.
  
  Here is a question for you speedy, why should any belief be absolute and unchanging when new things are learned everyday?
  report
  66
  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As I recall, YOU were the one who "threw the first punch".
  I, for one did NOT come for a fight, but to share, which you DESPISE.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cannot keep it to yourself huh?. You have to share.
  
  Not such a "personal relationship" then I guess.
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  there's things in the Bible that you know, through science, are simply not possible:
  
  the virgin birth
  
  a race of giants (including the giant David slew), some who had sex with women
  
  global catastrophic flooding
  
  a human (Sarah) being turned into a pillar of salt)
  
  rivers turning to blood
  
  spontaneous healing of afflictions such as blindness and leprosy
  
  there's tons more...
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rising from the dead
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh i forgot that one. hmm i wonder how they can explain that one
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's funny -- in my own dalliance with evangelicalism I can remember being told distinctly that all that mattered was my position on, and relationship with, Jesus Christ; the rest really didn't matter, because Jesus ushered in a New Age, anyway, and was the fulfillment of the all Scriptures that came before Him (and so on).
  So, which is it? Maybe these people here are idolaters: putting a false god before the real one; that false god being the Bible.
  So there
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure the giant race would be exploited for porn should it still exist today...
  
  I didn't know about the woman being turned into salt, but the rest I recognise, and they all seem pretty stupid. Unless God was an ace chemist who converted someone into salt, which could be possible to an extent? My chemistry is not as in tune as my Biology XD
  
  On that note, I found an interesting theory for the river turning to blood, red algal bloom containing neurotoxins. I don't know the details, so I won't pretend to know more than I do, but it's certainly plausible, especially with organic runoff from the Egyptians farming methods etc.
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? There was no global flood?, you need a science lesson too, and a history lesson, All ancient cultures have a flood legend which you can conclude arose from an actual event. If all the layers we see are billions of years old why are there no erosion marks? Giant my dear existed look into Smithsoniangate who deliberately kept the discovery of giants bones for out of the museum to further the evolutionary lie. The rest are miracles, and only to you do they seem impossible, but how else do you explain away the proof(in the bible and out) of the resurrection?
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How does the fact that there was a global flood (let's say there was, for the sake of argument) tell you anything about whether or not people should consider the notion that Jesus is an entity/spirit (or some other, better word) that exists right now, and can be experienced. I mean, isn't that what Christians are most concerned about. Who cares if there were giants. What has it got to do with the price of fish!!! (Oh, I guess a giant flood might affect the price of fish, that's true)
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  CONGRATULATIONS! YOUR ARGUMENT IS USELESS!
  
  Ok so maybe there has been catastrophic flooding... Let's say that for the sake of argument there was a global flood to the extent of the bible (which there wasn't).
  
  Ok now we are on our knees, one point may be about to slip away... But wait! Let's think, Noah put two of every animal on a boat?! Well the boat would have to be the size of a medium sized country at least, not possible to make back then. Then how would the animals gain sustenance and not kill each other? Oh and if that's true, how can there be creatures that only live a day or two? Surely they would be extinct? Oh and how did the water become so high it covered ALL land by a distance? Because you know there isn't enough water on earth for that
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I put this together for people just like you, enjoy.
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Noahs-Ark-Missi … complished
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Smithsoniangate"?
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hehehe -- isn't that guy from the British version of The Office in the movie of that?
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  those are the same people who believe that man kept dinosaurs as pets and the grand canyon was formed in a matter of weeks when the flood waters receded. oy.
  
  and now, Robin Williams' Immaculate Conception
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yabadabadooo
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  something tells me it is going to get very ugly in this forum. maybe this would be a good time to go sort laundry or something
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Clearly you're smarter than the average bear
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't you mean ape?
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Freakin' Darwinian. Get thee behind me
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, you're right you should credit the timegod and ask them we didn't they let it rain while all those layers were being formed. If you have a counter point please share.
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  in weeks?
  
  seriously?
  
  erosion of that magnitude happened in weeks?
  
  (insert head-banging bunny here)
  reply report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What erosion? There are none betwwen the layers that's my point Yeeesh! You know nothing of science.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone here should type out their credentials to comment on evolutionary biology, paleontology, and geology. The ones without any should then be asked to leave (of course then I'd have to leave...)
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  um, i'm not a geologist and don't profess to be, but i know enough to know that if all that water came crashing through to form the canyon, all of that earth that it carved out had to go somewhere, in which case there would be a giant mountain where the colorado river meets the sea of cortes (in the mouth, the gulf of california), right?
  
  i just wonder can you ever argue your point without insukting someone?
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Think about a a water dam and I think that answers your point.
  Insulting, I seen you do and say much worse. Things that will would make me blush.
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you have me confused with someone else. i am very careful about what i say and keep my arguments focused on the topic not the person.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope it was you, and now that I think about I have to end our exchange. Goodbye.
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  haha...you accused me of that before, which was unsupported with any "evidence", and you also accused a sweet dear hubber who would never say anything negative about or to anyone of the same thing, and he called you on it too. i won't mention his name, out of respect.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Do you want to go there, you could drop it and save face.
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  "save face"?
  
  by all means, please do post these derogatory, inflammatory posts i allegedly made towards you or other individuals. i have absolutely nothing to hide.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You were wrong here and you stated
  
  "a liar AND a hypocrite.
  
  how DO you sleep at night?
  
  oh...right....DENIAL!
  
  have fun living your unauthentic bleak little life"
  
  The person you slandered is a friend of mine on here and I'll keep the ID silent, but you said some pretty untrue and hateful, things here in this thread AND you lied.
  
  Moving on to the man you speak of he insulted me in several other times before I reacted(what I did was still wrong)
  He stated "what are you going to do call God on me. You need to be ridiculed your statements are grossly ridiculous and absurd at best. Your posts are filled paranoia, and fantasy, you've obviously lost your grip with reality and sanity, and need to accept some truth yourself. There's nothing to your claims but the inane ramblings of a crazy person"
  
  After running into the forum you're speaking of I lost my temper and apologized. I'm not perfect I make mistakes on the regular, I acknowledge them and apologize, I and don't deny them later to appear self righteous. I’m NOT.
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come on now. How could anyone wearing a hood like that insult anyone?
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's funny!
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you know what kills me about so many christians? they cannot argue their point without attacking the person making the counterpoint. when you make a point that is obviously accurate and for which they can't think of a reasonable reply, they begin to attack you personally, and shift the focus from the topic at hand to their nonsensical, inflammatory commentary, which is uncool and which shows the world the true definition of the word "hypocrite".
  
  i retract nothing i have said and spiderpam and i already dealt with this matter quite publicly and it was resolved and yet here you are TTH, dredging up something just to support your own sad position because your arguments cannot stand on their own merit.
  
  now why don't you just run along and read your bible. there's a good lad.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You must think Christians try to straighten up their lives to merit God's presence, but that's not the case. The church is a hospital for sinners, not a coutryclub for saints. Only if you have no standard could you not be a hypocrite. I'm hypocrite, broken and have many flaws, but it's Jesus that gives me life. btw what counter point are you talking about.
  
  You know what bother me about atheist that. You all have the same motto “There is No God and I hate Him“. You go on and on about OT verses and called them evil, but if there is no God, whose to say what is evil it's all subjective. You have borrow Christians attributes to refute them you have to sit in God's lap to slap Him. It’s madness.
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's silly. There is almost universal agreement about a lot of things that are evil: genocide is evil; dictatorships are evil; child abuse is evil; lying to an entire nation and sending them to a bogus war is evil; rape is evil; flying planes into buildings is evil. Who would disagree with this?
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Serial killers, rapist, dictactors, the people committing genocide, Evil cannot exist on its own. There is an objective law, there must be a lawgiver.
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why not? If there is no objective moral standards(and there are) Who could logical put anyone in prison. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soVQrBelj_s
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I mean why does there have to be a lawgiver? Why couldn't it simply be "in our nature" to find these things evil?
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  [/b]
  
  alas, this question has been asked here many times before (myself included), to no avail.
  
  fasten your seatbelt, it's going to be a bumpy night!
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (I see what you mean)
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is nature? In nature they eat they their young, and kill without conscience and commit heinous action and in humans society he find wrong. We have a conscience, if evolution were true animals would be aware of wrong doing as well, but they are not unless beaten into submission. Evolution cannot account for morals. There is a transcendent law above our heads
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. So I used the wrong word. I'll rephrase. Why couldn't human beings not "automatically" recognize the evils we just listed, as evil"? The same way a baby "automatically" smiles at its mother? The same way a mother "automatically" tends to her baby. The same way men "automatically" like boobs...
  
  And I'm not talking about evolution; I realize evolution is controversial. So I'm sticking to the here-and-now. The fact is there are lots of things we "automatically" do, so why can't "recognizing some things as evil" be one of them?
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "automatically?" means nothing it's like saying by chance. If I toss a coin and you there a 50/50 change it will land heads. what does the do? Nothing What makes it land heads? Your thumb, the force you put into the flip, the wind around the coin all these things contribute, what makes a man know killing and beastiality is wrong? There is a objective standard which we look to whether we like or not. It is was automatic it would be universal throughout, BUT we as humans are a special creation. Praise God.
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What? Yes there are objective standards that (mostly) all of us recognize. So you don't want to use the word "automatically"? OK, no problem. How about, simply, to quote you: "There are objective standards" and (most all of us) know what they are. Period. I mean, why is up up and down down. They just are. Some things just ARE.
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's it?
  
  you're talking about spiderpam, who sent me unsolicited emails which were highly improper and personal attacks besides, especially about my son. i did not "slander" her, she stated that i sent her nasty emails, which was definitely not true. initially, she sent me one email with links to religious sites and i didn't know her at the time, and i replied with something general like thanks very much. ONCE. then, out of the blue, she sent me the emails that were "not so nice", which were personal in nature and which i did not respond to.
  
  as far as your other comment re: the man, i have no idea what you are talking about there and i am not going to comment on it.
  
  you got anything else?
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Son?
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't care what she did, that wasn't the argument you said you don't get personal and you obviously do. From what I saw you first stated that teaching her child bible and creation is child abuse and that’s what started her responds with you have no basis for morality which for an atheists is true(unless you take the moral atheist stance which is inconsistent).
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what is this about, really?
  
  why are you bringing up all of this now?
  
  what is your intent?
  
  do you want to have the last word, is that it?
  
  you can have the last word, i don't mind.
  
  you can say whatever you want about me, but it is not going to affect me. i have stated my position and explained myself quite adequately, and i am done doing that. i am not going to attempt to justify something that needs no justification, nor am i going to rise to your bait.
  
  you managed to shift the focus off of yourself and onto another hubber, so i guess you can call your night's work a success. good for you - i am proud of you! i hope you feel better now.
  
  *pats you on the head*
  
  adios, muchacho.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You right, Congrats!
  report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i know, right?
  
  thanks for clearing that up!
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "In the early twenty-first century there was a theological debate about rocks. One side thought you went to hell depending what you believed about them. The other didn't"
  report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Odd - I am seeing this a lot from religionists lately.
  
  When some one points out a flaw - they immediately accuse the other person of doing the same thing - even if it is not true.
  
  As though this makes it OK.
  
  It is OK that the catholic church covered up child abuse. Because Pol Pot was an atheist.
  report
  0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you, Don't get me started on Catholics. You called me a liar, because you were lying, now I get it. Thanks for making that clear.
  report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know that through science?
  
  The fact that science is limited to natural laws makes no difference to God who is NOT subject to natural laws.
  
  The problem (which will never go away) is that science keeps changing its parameters as new science discovers new things that disprove what they were certain about yesterday....
  
  If you cannot believe in miracles, so be it, you cannot experience any in all probability, and you limit yourself to earth bound natural laws.
  
  But it does not have to be that way, and most disciples of Christ will have experienced Christ still healing the sick, and setting the captives free.
  
  The bible lives for believers, it does not for non believers.
  
  Neither 'side' can prove they are right, so why argue?
  
  Why is Christ such a threat to non believers? - why don't non believers simply ignore we believers and get on with their lives?
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not going to happen Daddy.
  
  Keep your ridiculous beliefs in your head where they belong and we are good to go.
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's just not worth answering you.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You asked - I answered. Sorry you do not like the answer.
  
  Stop spreading the Word and I will stop telling you how ridiculous it is.
  
  Understand?
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I'll do as I please, you can be as stupid as you like, it matters not, so I guess we will continue treading on each others toes for a while longer.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  What did you ask for if you did not want an answer? But - I see I am stupid now. Witty repartee it ain't.
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, we must not question the Lord! I'm willing to bet that you're the Antichrist!
  reply report
  87
  Len Cannonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess don't follow then, unless, perhaps, an open mind is possible. Atheism isn't about believing you know everything. Nor is it about having a shut mind. It is about a simple lack of belief.
  
  There's nothing inherently "closed minded" about atheism, at least no more than being a baseline Christian. Both have the same evidence and have come to different conclusions. I have not met a single non-believer who would dismiss God if given scientific proof of it.
  
  Most atheists are firm believers in science. Any scientist will tell you that one of the main tenants of the profession is an understanding that we know less about the universe than we think we do. That does not mean believing in everything, but it is certainly far from "close minded."
  
  As someone who values, studies, and participated in science I don't think I've ever met a single non believer who would refute God given the proper evidence. Some, I think, would probably feel relieved. You can't reasonably expect people with different value structures to suddenly place an emphasis on "faith" and gut instinct, and it certainly isn't a reflection on anyone's belief that they "know everything."
  reply report
  83
  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's not strictly true. Atheism is more intricate than that. It falls into two categories, implicit and explicit atheism.
  
  Implicit atheism can be characterised as a lack of theistic belief. Explicit atheism is sub-categorised into weak and strong atheism. The former is refraining from theistic belief, but not denying the possibility of deities. The latter is holding the belief that deities do not exist. Technically this would be better described as anti-theism, but it's commonly called atheism also.
  reply report
71
myownworldposted 14 years ago
(((leaning back...sipping drinks....with Denno, T & Misha in HELL...watching this thread...while 8 year olds play nearby....such joy!)))
reply report
1. 61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  ((((yeah !)))))
  reply report
61
DogSiDaedposted 14 years ago
Ooo just had a thought, would a virgin birth not be possible nowadays? Strange to think eh?
reply report
1. 72
  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  parthenogenesis has been observed in nature.
  
  http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 … 1021a.html
  reply report
0
ralwusposted 14 years ago
I know everything, I just can't figure it out yet. It's right there in front of us all, within us all. Wish I was a physic exert. I make a mathematical formula for ya. All is matter, plus or minus 2 tants and divided by three Knowles times the 10th power of gentry.
reply report
0
B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 14 years ago
No living human could possibly know everything about everything..it is impossible.
We all learn something new every day about something.

I want to meet this person who knows every bit of information about every single subject there could possibly be..when you find them I will be glad to give them my address, but if they know everything, they already know who I am and how to find me and where I will be at the moment they are found...

LMAO!!!!
reply report
1. 65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do unbelievers need to know everything? I thought they only needed to "know" Christ (I mean, of course, from the Christian perspective). Why does it matter what else they do or do not "know."
  reply report
  0
  B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It does not matter because no human could ever "know" everything..
  
  I believe in God and Mother Earth working as one....only a spiritual being could possibly "know" everything..
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well yeah, but that doesn't mean there is one.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It also does not matter because a God that condemned people for what they believed about rocks and monkeys would be a bit of a loon
  reply report
  0
  B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I fully agree with that..you are perfectly correct about your statement of comdemnation - that god would be a loon.
  reply report
  61
  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is something missing...? XD
  reply report
61
DogSiDaedposted 14 years ago
Also thought you guys should see this shirt I bought to celebrate this discussion XD

http://www.zazzle.com/carbo_diem_fsm_ts … 4175885438
reply report
61
DogSiDaedposted 14 years ago
This thread just ain't as good without Mark showing people up, I'm outta here (For the time being)
reply report
0
cosetteposted 14 years ago
reply report
0
cosetteposted 14 years ago
animals kill to survive.

i have seen plenty of people raised in secular homes who are very moral, and people raised in religious homes who are very immoral. the ability to distinguish right from wrong comes from your conscience, not from a holy book. even a two-year-old knows it's wrong to hit another little kid or take their toy away without asking.
reply report
1. 0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where does conscience come from? Morals don't come from a book(whoever said that?) it comes from God.
  reply report
0
cosetteposted 14 years ago

i'm going to have some soup, play with my bunny then write another hub. good luck out there!
reply report
0
Denno66posted 14 years ago
Bunny soup? How ghastly!
reply report
1. 65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There was a movie about that too: Glenn Close -- also ghastly (Glenn Close I mean, not the movie)
  reply report
  0
  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh good, I was hoping you weren't going to say that Glenn Close was in Brown Bunny. That would pretty much end it for me.
  reply report
71
AEvansposted 14 years ago
Honestly I do not believe that either side knows
everything and if they believe they do then they are politically incorrect. There is not a single person that walks this earth that knows it all.
reply report
1. 0
  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Maam! Thank you.
  reply report
0
Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
Nope afraid not...no body knows everything. We have to learn as we go and make our own choices of what we believe or don't believe. It isn't up to ANYONE to force what they believe on others. We make mistakes and we learn from them as well, our knowledge about life growing.
reply report
61
ronjer1posted 14 years ago
come on buddy, nobody knows everything.
but you try to imply nonbelievers say they do. They don't. And believers don't either...

But nonbelievers know one thing. that 'idea' you call God, is only an idea in your head, and not in reality.
you don't have to be omniscient to know that one simple thing.
reply report
1. 71
  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are naughty , it isn't an idea and I am certainly a realist, however you believe in what you believe and I believe in mine so we should not be mudslinging again because there will not be any end.
  reply report
  61
  ronjer1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sure it's an idea. monsters, fairies, santa, godzilla, etc. are ideas just like god.
  if you don't want it to be idea, then show it in reality. This is not an issue of what you or I believe...
  reply report
79
earnestshubposted 14 years ago
No, but the OP thinks he does!
reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
MOOOooooOOOo.
reply report
61
quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
The Light shines in the darkness
and the darkness cannot comprehend it.
reply report
1. 60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think your dark bold quotes and close up picture make you look more like the prophet you think you are?
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Neither.
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think your truth is the absolute truth?
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because I am a liar by nature...I do not accept the term "your truth"
  
  I have none.
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You said you believed the bible before, now you say you have no truth. Did it change?
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not know your truth Derek...
  
  you asked me "Do you think your truth is the absolute truth?"
  
  and so I gave you an answer...."your truth" does not exist in my vocabulary.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice play on words.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are a liar by nature. Hmmm....that defies your nature. So, you are here to play games, more than anything else.
  
  Why am I not surprised.
  reply report
2. 67
  awareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i can pop that zit on your nose if you like. lol jk i had to you set me up so well
  reply report
67
awareposted 14 years ago
noone knows everything .its imposable.but a everything bagel with cream cheese that everything i know to be delicious
reply report
1. 68
  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ben and Jerry's has a flavor called Everything But The...
  I know that everything is also delicious.
  reply report
0
Denno66posted 14 years ago
I like bagels.
reply report
1. 61
  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Yeah? Well I don't!!
  reply report
72
WriteAngledposted 14 years ago
I don't know everything. But then, I'm not an unbeliever. However, I don't believe in Jehovah of the Old and New Testaments.
reply report
67
awareposted 14 years ago
ron you dont like bagels? really?
reply report
61
tantrumposted 14 years ago
Do unbelievers know everything?

Of course !
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No tantrum we believers only know what God has told us in his word, only God knows EVERYTHING.
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's why we know everything and you don't know anything !
  You only know what God told you .
  We know the rest!
  
  reply report
79
earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I do not understand how anyone who reads the bible could believe the entities spoken of are gods? One helpful hippie maybe but the rest of it is all about how this benevolent god is gonna rip you a new A hole!
reply report
0
Denno66posted 14 years ago
Insanity is so fun, though.
reply report
1. 60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is pretty amusing when accepted!
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
i know everything.
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank God for that... who's Professor Bogle then?
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
Guess the churches are going broke?
reply report
1. 61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure are !
  reply report
2. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Chance would be a fine thing.... don't think for one minute I exclude false churches that fleece the people from my statement, getting rich means you make someone else poorer, unless you are the government in which case you let the Fed print a few more billion and make EVERYONE else poorer except the bankers... (rhyming slang)
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You amuse me to no end
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
every dog has his day huh

even the rich dog gets a bite on the ass
reply report
1. 61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  By whom ?
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
"Spinoza’s deliberate use of a traditional theological vocabulary for the transmission of a new set of concepts and his substitution of the signification of this traditional vocabulary by these new concepts, can be judged, according to Walther, a cause of the semantic revolution that took place in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and finally would effectuate the destruction of the metaphysics underlying this theological vocabulary and in the case of Spinoza of all metaphysics."

Source:http://autodidactproject.org/blog/culture/index.php/2008/08/spinozas-semantics/

I doubt that will make sense to you aquasilver and I doubt my attempt to simplify reality for you as follows will make sense either, to paraphrase the above;

Spinoza is not a believer, never was. Try think of it this way, (to use a concept of your creation, try opening your spiritual eyes) Spinoza, in a vain attempt to reason with the unreasonable, accepted the fact his audience was of closed mind. Not only a philosopher but a poet but much misunderstood, his faith in the faithful, similarly misinformed.
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Has it ever occurred to you that believers are 'of closed mind' because they are 100% certain that God exists and that those who do not believe are seriously disadvantaged.
  
  They are certain of Gods existence because they meet with Him and as stated, He guides and guards their lives... now it's obvious that you cannot understand that and that it means nothing to you, as your quote on Spinoza means little to me.
  
  Spinoza was entitled to his opinion, you are to yours, believers are to theirs.
  
  What's the problem, I'm not trying to convert you to anything, you can believe or not believe, but I will not sit here and see people attack my Lord and just let them spread lies and propaganda as they see fit.
  reply report
  63
  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your lord is a big enough boy to stand up for himself in front of anyone. "He" doesn't need you to stick up for him - unless he's just an imaginary being in your mind.
  
  There is one thing that is certain though. He is TERRIFIED of me!
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are a fool and not even a funny fool...
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As above. Bovine Currency.
  reply report
79
earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Goodnight aquasilver, sleep well.
reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
good idea

Sleep well.
reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
aguasilver wrote:

Tantrum, I won't 'look' anything, if I have been wrong these last 16 years and the personality I meet with daily, who guides my life and protects my family, is actually non existent... well then I would just be as dead as you will be.

It surprises me that people think (or don't think) that such complex things as we humans just happened along, that there is nothing else superior to us in the whole universe, that our lives are inconsequential and that when we die that's it.... strange for such intelligent folk.

Such complex things....

is not your god theory rather more complex than humans, a creator with no creator...

just, happened along?

Logic is more superior.
reply report
1. 61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Too late, whatever.... (standard good night reply)
  
  As we are made in His image I would imagine that God has both sexes present in His personality, but as there is no sex in Heaven, as we know it, sexuality will be a moot point.
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good night!
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Smart choice. I wouldn't argue with me either.
  reply report
79
earnestshubposted 14 years ago
aquasilver, I think you are relying on your belief, and the results of that belief are positive in your view so you defend them. I think that if you believe the tooth fairy is behind it all you would get the same good result.
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ernest, believe me if the tooth fairy spoke to me, guided me, protected me and sent me daily provision I'd listen to him, but the only person I know who believes in the tooth fairy is you!
  reply report
61
quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
I am the author of no truth...so I cannot say "my truth"
reply report
1. 60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you do or don't believe the bible as truth? "Drumroll"
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm... no answer?
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I even added a drumroll for him.
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe the truth when I find it...wherever I find it...same as anyone who looks for the truth...cymbal crash!!!
  
  The truth comes from no man...men are liars.
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And men wrote the bible. When did you change your mind that the bible was divine truth?
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Men write plenty of things...if it is truth...it still did not originate with them...truth originates with no man...divine truth is just that...divine, unadulterated, pure truth...not concocted by men.
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice take.
  reply report
60
mobilephone guideposted 14 years ago
Science works in this way, religion too. Logical fallacy of affirming the consequence:
Theory P predicts that we will observe Q.
Experimental observation shows Q.
Therefore theory P is true.

Just because a theory works, it doesn't mean it is ever certain. It can only be accurate only on a number of decimal places. Surprise! No one knows everything.

However being an unbeliever (of anything, question everything) lets you be free of hindrances like fundamentalism. It lets you think more. If new evidences are presented then you should/could re-evaluate your beliefs.

Have an open-mind and humility, these traits lack, although not all, in both atheists and religionists. Both asserts belief in no-god and "there is god" and sticks with it and does not bother to look even more. An atheist haven't experienced god and does not bother to look. A religious person with full faith in whatever scriptures also does not bother to look.

/end blabber
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Main Entry: fun·da·men·tal·ism
  Pronunciation: \-tə-ˌli-zəm\
  Function: noun
  Date: 1922
  1 a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs
  2 : a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles <Islamic fundamentalism> <political fundamentalism>
  — fun·da·men·tal·ist \-tə-list\ noun
  — fundamentalist or fun·da·men·tal·is·tic \-ˌmen-tə-ˈlis-tik\ adjective
  
  "interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life"....YES
  
  "a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles"
  
  Hmmm... now the second definition seems to fit just as well to non believers as they explain all the various rules of non belief we believers need to keep to in order to answer your inane queries...
  
  Yes I'm a fundamentalist, yes I'm brain washed, because my brain DID need washing from all the accumulated junk and nonsense that 30 years of serious thinking and exploration had filled it up with.
  
  When you guys make accusations (another of the names of Satan; the accuser) when you do your masters bidding, practise first in front of the mirror...
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So -how come lying by omission is OK with Jesus? Your definition says:
  
  "literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life"
  
  yet you then pretend it says:
  
  "interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life"
  
  which says something completely different by omitting one word.
  
  You are just persuading us that Christians are liars. Why do you do that all the time? I am already convinced. Do you like my new forum signature?
  
  I am not anti-Christian.
  I just don't like lies.
  reply report
  60
  tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, right
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry I do not like lies.
  
  You must be very angry.
  reply report
  60
  tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And yet you say you are not anti-Christian?
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry you did not understand.
  
  I can see why you are angry. I would be if I were you.
  
  I am not anti-Christian.
  I just don't like lies.
  reply report
  60
  tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I understand alright.
  reply report
  59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you understood - you would not need to ask so many inane questions.
  reply report
  60
  mobilephone guideposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  first time i've heard that brainwashing is good. well that's fine, if it works for you keep it to yourself.
  accuse? accuse of what? from that statement, i think it is you who's doing the accusing.
  reply report
79
earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I disagree. Most non believers here seem to have good bible knowledge. Religionists are only allowed to see what there god tells them to!
reply report
1. 60
  mobilephone guideposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes, in that way, they are too dependent on god and fundamentalism got into their heads.
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Morning Ernest...."Religionists are only allowed to see what there god tells them to!"
  
  errrm....
  
  1. Who does the allowing if our God does not exist?
  2. Why did my God tell me to read the Quran, The God Delusion, and may other 'non Christian' books if He was censoring my reading material and thoughts?
  
  You've made the statements, now answer my queries, I'm interested to know who (in your atheist world of nothingness) is commanding my thoughts and actions?
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
is it just me or is there a small sect of threaders here causing most of the problems, for religionists and non-religionists alike. I am getting sick and tired of the fraud. If you want to take high moral ground, stand your ground. If you admit fault, do not then expect people to forget if you then go about the same behaviour. Apologies mean nothing if you don't change and if you act so proud but have no integrity, no tricks will help you save face.

This is a general message and not directed personally, I know it should be obvious to most people and there are some I have in mind but it is a general worry and not to me, it is getting out of hand.
reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
P.S. That was not a surrender note, I am not vacating on the account of a few pests.
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi BC.... for the record, am I a pest?
  
  (Nothing snide or ulterior, I am genuinely interested to know how you perceive me on the forum)
  
  John
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
if you genuinely are interested in my opinion, you can email me.
reply report
0
poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
no unbelievers no nothing.... well you did ask
reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
all is as expected...
reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
The loaded question @ Mission: Critical
reply report
77
Sa Toyaposted 14 years ago
We do not know all we need to know, I'm a believer in God and exercise my faith but I also know and believe I do not know absolutely everything, The Bible does not have everything in it- I always thought of it to be on the 'need to know' basis.

Many scientists are avid believers in God and I do not believe all of them are out to disprove or prove his existence they just want to know more about our world, our universe ad I'm good with that
reply report
60
Gregg Biancciposted 14 years ago
Anyone that tells you they know everything, religious or otherwise, most likely knows nothing.
reply report
1. 71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, only God knows everything, the rest of us see in part, as if through a glass darkly.
  reply report
0
cosetteposted 14 years ago
if i were God, i would make sure to have my word (the Bible) written in such a way that there would be absolutely no room for doubt or questioning, as i would want to be understood by every man on Earth (and other planets in the billions of galaxies out there). even Harry Potter had books with moving pictures in them, so i would make the bible with moving pictures (and sound, even), so that people would know it was made by a god. it would also glow with a golden light and i would divinely transport one copy on every doorstep in the world, in every language, depending on where i was leaving it. i would also, since i know the past, present and future, mention things that exist now like space shuttles and cell phones, for example...i would explain them in words anyone could understand but also use correct terminology and be very specific. for example: "in the future, Man will build flying ships that will take him to the stars, these ships will be called space shuttles" or, Man will be able to talk to his fellow men anywhere in the world on vessels called cell phones", that sort of thing.

also, those commandments would include "honor thy children" and "thou shalt protect thy child first and foremost and not harm them". that always killed me that God thought it so important for man to honor his father and his mother but left the kids out of the equation.

i bet if the bible was like that, more people would believe it.
reply report
59
h.a.borcichposted 14 years ago
Hi Cosette,

Not looking to get into a war or anything by any means.

You mentioned about the Bible not adressing protecting children. I do know of one verse which I do not recall where, but it says basically it is better to be cast into the sea with brick shoes than to be a stumbling block to a child.
Not arguing or trying to change anyone's belief, but wanted to share what I remember.

Personally, I consider that to be a strong indication of God's position on harming a child.
Have a good one, Holly
reply report
1. 61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Too bad Abraham killed his own son.
  reply report
  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And his daughters raped him while he was drunk. eww.
  reply report
  59
  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  WOW! That was amazing... I simple mentioned a verse I remembered and somehow I am underfire for whatever else.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not YOU under-fire. It's the actions stipulated in the bible. What she said...was correct according to the bible.
  
  His daughters had sex with him when he was drunk. That's all Sandra was pointing out.
  reply report
  59
  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is fine and well, but it was not being debated. All I did was respond to something another hubber wrote - and viola - I am faced with that? Seemy point?
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know.....bunches of people STEP on other people's conversations....that's difficult to stop. Sorry.
  reply report
  0
  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's called freedom of press.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, YOU are WRONG, yet again.
  
  It's freedom of speech, NOT press. Freedom of press is for media personnel.
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  "Truly you are a God who hides himself, O God and Savior of Israel."
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Error again, please get your facts right.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be nice for YOU to get your facts straight.
  reply report
  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh sorry, he raped his own daughters. My mistake. eww.
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hey agua, what's this 'error again' anyway?
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get it. Don't Bible-literalists have consciences? Why don't they just do like the rest of us and follow that? Or... believe these things, but not worry about whether the rest of us will or not BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER (though it is fun though, as someone above pointed out )
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong, you are thinking about Lot and his daughters.
  They wanted to keep the family going because their mother was dead.
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Heaven forbid the blood line stop!? But the bible says kill homosexuals. Makes so much sense now!? Sick.
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So incest is OK ?
  
  Lot was a great guy !! how smart and lusty !
  
  reply report
  71
  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Error, Abraham did not kill his own son, he killed a ram that God supplied, Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son, just as God did later, and it was a pictogram of what God knew would happen, including the sacrificial ram provided (representing Christ).
  
  At least get it right before you attempt to slander God.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you eat pigs? (Just wondering)
  reply report
  60
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think a creator of all would need you to stick up for him to protect your own faith?
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Motion seconded
  reply report
  0
  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't slander god. God doesn't exist.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be nice, if YOU yourself knew what you were talking about, and since we know that you don't.....he happens to be correct.
  
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey man, take it as symbolic; I assure you, you'll get much more mileage around here (and across the whole cross-section of American/North American/Western society) if you do -- as a symbol it is very powerful: as a metaphor, you know. Taken literally it, well, sucks, to be frank... barbaric, in fact (though I guess, perhaps, it is a matter of opinion, I concede)
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (And do you eat pigs: you didn't answer?)
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is it you are addressing here?
  
  I eat pigs
  
  And The Books? I can see the metaphors... no problem there. I just find it highly amusing when chumps cannot see it that way.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not you. Chumps
  reply report
  61
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No he did not....read the passage.
  reply report
  59
  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What difference does that make if he didn't get to actually kill his son? If God had not given him something else to kill; that schizophrenic would have killed his child. God aint talkin to the likes of me, you, Abraham or anybody else. When you do start having conversations with God; get yourself some help.
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Plus he (likely) didn't exist (Abraham, I mean)...
  reply report
  59
  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  59
  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or course he did. The Bible is also very good history book for those that are able to separate truth from fiction.
  reply report
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
  61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How does one separate the truth from fiction? The book was written by men, the truth and the fiction are bound.
  reply report
2. 0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hello.
  
  that would be the Book of Luke, and it was Jesus who was telling people not to cause seekers to stumble. he was talking about those who were just starting out in the faith, and he referred to them as "little ones", which was a metaphor for new followers. the actual verse is as follows:
  
  He said to the disciples, It is impossible that no stumbling blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." (Luke 17:1-2)
  
  i'm not offended by your comment at all. i appreciate your being respectful, and i hope that i am to you in kind. best regards.
  reply report
  59
  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Cosette for pointing out the specifics I only offered what I remebered trying to help. Thank you for realizing my intent. Take care, Holly
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you're welcome.
  
  one thing i have learned about the religion forum - you gots to walk softly and carry a big stick
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. I've been snowed in for two days (ok, well I was at a bar till early Sunday morning for part of that time...), and you guys *still* haven't decided if unbelievers know everything or not???
  reply report
  65
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who was that -- Teddy Roosevelt? Didn't he ride into battle on horseback, so maybe not the best authority on tackling artillery...
  reply report
  0
  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oops...i was wrong. he said "SPEAK" softly and carry a big stick, which means try to negotiate peacefully while at the same time brandishing a big stick just in case
  
  and those teddy bears look so harmless too
  reply report
61
Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
"Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand,
but the passages that bother me are those I do understand."
— Mark Twain

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/BibleQuotes.htm
reply report
0
poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
you know what i feel so sorry for so many of you that frequent these religious forums and wish with all my heart that you had better things to do with your time

so what am i doing here i wonder myself
reply report
1. 0
  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Feeling sorry for them?
  reply report
2. 61
  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you reached a conclusion?
  reply report
0
poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
more than sorry actually sad sad sad creatures
reply report

Post a Reply

jump to first post

12 Next

Necessary
HubPages Device ID	This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
Login	This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google Recaptcha	This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
Akismet	This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google Analytics	This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic Pixel	This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web Services	This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
Cloudflare	This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted Libraries	Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)

Features
Google Custom Search	This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google Maps	Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google Charts	This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host API	This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTube	Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Vimeo	Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Paypal	This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook Login	You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Maven	This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)

Marketing
Google AdSense	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClick	Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index Exchange	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Sovrn	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook Ads	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexus	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Openx	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon Project	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLift	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say Media	We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing Pixels	We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking Pixels	We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.

Statistics
Author Google Analytics	This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
Comscore	ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

Do unbelievers know everything?

Arts and Design

Autos

Books, Literature, and Writing

Business and Employment

Education and Science

Entertainment and Media

Family and Parenting

Fashion and Beauty

Food and Cooking

Games, Toys, and Hobbies

Gender and Relationships

Health

Holidays and Celebrations

Home and Garden

HubPages Tutorials and Community

Personal Finance

Pets and Animals

Politics and Social Issues

Religion and Philosophy

Sports and Recreation

Technology

Travel and Places

About Us

This website uses cookies

Do unbelievers know everything?

Related Discussions

This website uses cookies