Am I the only one who finds it insulting god is given credit for saving lives fr

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   RealityTalkposted 11 years ago

   Am I the only one who finds it insulting god is given credit for saving lives from a tornado?
   
   After the Oklahoma tornado tragedy, I heard a few survivors credit their prayers to god as the reason they survived.  Meanwhile other people, including babies, died.  They are implying god favored them and let others die.  I understand many people are afraid of life and death and the truth.  And because they have no answers for either, they have to invent a god in their own image. A god who favors them and follows their lives from when they brush their teeth to when they change their socks.  But to proclaim to the world that they are favored over babies, children and other people is insulting.

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   xanzacowposted 11 years ago

   First, let me say, I do believe in God. I do not, however, believe that God causes, or intervenes in weather or any other tragedies termed "Acts of God".  I believe he simply allows these things to happen, and is at no fault for deaths, and no responsibility for those who made it through alive. Yes, I do find it irritating and insulting.

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      Rayne123posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well I have to disagree, God does intervene oh yes he does

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Rayne, to answer as definitively as you have, I suspect you discussed this matter over dinner with god recently?  Rather I suspect, this definitive response came from your head.

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      Dan Barfieldposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LOL! Rayne123 think they 'know' something... bless.

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      Rayne123posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      What I mean is he will intervene for any one of us if we ask him to. I believe that God is angry with the way we have destroyed the world. If we dont take care of it he is not going to jump in and say ah well its all good ,whatever you do I will fix

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   JThomp42posted 11 years ago

   Live and let live. This is only them showing their appreciation for living through such a traumatic event.

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      xanzacowposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are right, as always. But what irritates me most, is that people blame God for such occurances.

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree my friend. It goes both ways I suppose.

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   Billie Kelpinposted 11 years ago

   I would prefer people say, "I have no idea why I survived.  I feel great sorrow for my neighbors who didn't.  It's quite mysterious.  All I can do is pledge to be recommitted to making this gift of life meaningful." 
   I find it dangerous for people to think that God answered their specific prayers over others and a bit arrogant, actually, to think that God answers prayers at all.  When I was growing up, the only prayer I thought it was respectful to pray was a prayer of gratitude and not petition. 
   The condition of nature, as JThompson suggests, is that as human beings we are often filled with gratitude and there seems to be no place to put it unless we thank God.
   When my heart is overwhelmed with gratefulness for standing on the shore of the Pacific or watching a flower bloom in my garden or knowing that my daughter is well and happy, it's hard to direct that gratitude.  I thank the "Universe," put it out to the "Universe," but that doesn't feel satisfying enough.  Whatever it is, deep within the human psyche is the need and desire to be grateful to SOMETHING or SOME ONE.  I find that need quite lovely about the human condition.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Billie,
      A very good answer.  I am not a believer in a man god, but I understand the need to thank some-one/thing. Our upbringing influences these needs. I find thanking a doctor for medical; my parents for birth & upbringing, etc. satisfying for

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   IDONOposted 11 years ago

   This sounds like a bad case of "ME, ME, ME".  Why would you be insulted because someone elses conception of a higher power differs from yours? The only way you should be insulted about anything is if a statement was made personally to you or about you. Someone mentioned gratitude but didn't know where to direct it. These people chose God to direct theirs to.
        I doubt that any of these people would be insulted by whatever you believe in because there conception is personal. It has nothing to do with you. They have found the ability to get out of themselves. If you are insulted, you haven't .

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If your child was killed by the tornado, you can honestly say that god chose to save that other couple, but not your child?  I think you are thinking of yourself and your belief in a god, not the feelings of others who have lost loved ones.

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      IDONOposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Did you lose a loved one in that unfortunate event?

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      Billie Kelpinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      IDONO "insulted by" is simply a way of saying "Do you find it strange that people would believe that God personally intervened in saving their lives over saving another's. I should think the one being insulted would be God at this assumption of him.

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      IDONOposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Let's be fair about assumptions. How do we know that the "others" aren't thinking had they been closer to God, they may not have lost their loved ones? There are 2 ways to look at this. Believers never deny their belief for any reason.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Idono, I am a "believer" too.  A believer in "reality."  Your comment that those who lost loved ones might have thought if only they asked god for help that would have saved them is egotistical self-serving delusional thinking. In short, "insulting."

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      Billie Kelpinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Reality Talk, I'm with you.on that last comment!!!

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Billie, thank you. You read like an intelligent person. And you understand the question asked. It is not about choice of philosophy, which many religious cannot seem to see past as they reply "defensively" while missing the question itself.

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      IDONOposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Reality. My comment was a mirror image of your question. It was not a statement. You must enjoy being insulted. That would explain the spin you seem so good at with other's comments. I'm insulted by ur expert evaluation of everyone else's thinking.

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      RealityTalk.... Do as I do, if something on TV offends you turn the channel. Free speech is a wonderful thing. But, we are not going to always agree. Insulted? A way bit far.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       idono, the only "mirror" is the one before you.  You cannot see beyond yourself. You have missed the meaning entirely. And if you are insulted by my "evaluations" I am not surprised.  The truth hurts those who do not understand.

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       IDONOposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I understand that your evaluations mean no more to me than anyone else on Hubpages. Your ego, far out weighs the value of your pointed responses. I will take JThomp's advice and change the channel. Thanks for your time.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       idono, "ouch."

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       Billie Kelpinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       RT, I HAD to go to your hubs to see what you are all about.  There are TEARS in my eyes over your Valentine animation to your wife.  You are truly a lovely soul.  My husband left after 20 years, so you can imagine how you're video touched me.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Billie, I don't know what to say except I hope life is good to you and will always be good to you.  I read your profile and you seem to be into everything. I admire your adventurous spirit. You seem fearless to attempt almost anything. Never change!

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   mintinfoposted 11 years ago

   I wholeheartedly agree that it is illogical but it is not insulting to me. Whatever comforts the souls of people is their business. IDONO gave a very logical answer which says that those of us who do not believe in a god should not judge those who do. Sometimes I ask these kinds of questions also but that is only to “poke fun” at the illogical nature of religion but everyone deserves to be respected for their beliefs. It promotes tolerance.

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      IDONOposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I understand why people wonder why God let's bad things happen to good people. We are told that everything has a reason. If we understood all that, there would be no such thing as faith. That's why they are called believers, not knowers.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You miss the point & answer in typical dogma.  YOU are showing NO tolerance.  You dismiss those who do not "believe" and credit only those who do.  Respect should go 2 ways. To say you live because you pray & I die because I don't IS insultin

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   Lisa HWposted 11 years ago

   I'm somewhere between not being entirely sure what I believe/think about God and not really wanting to be public about it anyway; but I'll say that I'm very much a common-sense/reasoned type of person.
   
   I do know, though, that a lot of people who have complete and utter faith that God exists also tend to believe that God has a plan for everyone, that everything happens for a reason that nobody will ever understand, and that death isn't necessarily the end of life anyway.   So, I'd think that anyone who believes that way wouldn't be seeing it as God's "favoring" them, but as God's not choosing to take them away from their families and life on Earth at this time.  So there's that...
   
   Also, though, I can tell you from first-hand experience that when you go through something that involves someone not far from you being killed and you not being killed, there's that, "I don't know why I was allowed to live," kind of thinking that can show up; and there's very much the awareness of how very close you came to, maybe, being killed and assuming that "for some reason, it wasn't your time".
   You're grateful that it appears it wasn't "your time" if you think God had something to do with it.  If you think it was nothing more than luck that you lived you're still grateful to feel so lucky and be alive.
   
   Whether you believe it "was the other person's time" or was horrible luck, you have to reconcile your horrible, overwhelming, grief for them with the fact that you're happy to be alive.  It's a mixed up set of emotions and thoughts, and people who have only recently gone through that kind of thing are usually in shock.  It seems to me more like someone else may infer that they think God "favored" them; because having been only about six inches away from someone who was killed, myself, I can tell you that the set of thoughts/emotions that go on aren't even coming from anywhere/anything at all like those that come from someone who hasn't just been through that kind of thing.
   
   When you've only recently survived a close call you can be kind of "euphoric" in a way (not in the medical/scientific sense), but you get the idea.  You can be kind of "hyper"; and if you had the chance to see whatever it was coming, you can be relieved in a way that lasts for a very long time.  If you add fear for your own family (especially your children) to the mix it's even more complicated, overwhelming, and confusing.
   
   Those people shouldn't be judged - what? - a week or so later.

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      Billie Kelpinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I like your comment, especially the insight that after surviving a close call you feel "euphoric".  I agree that we say things out of gratitude.  We have to put the gratitude somewhere.

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   taburkettposted 11 years ago

   You judge, yet you know not.  You ridicule, because you refuse to accept.
   Those that deny suffer - those who worship do not.
   Age has nothing to do with this fact.
   Christians know that the Lord is with them always - regardless of the evil and devastation around them.
   Proclaiming such in times like a terrible tornado is very natural to a believer.  They are not proclaiming that they are favored, but simply that they are followers.  And, as followers, they are still dedicating themselves to the Lord. 
   Those who ridicule simply have rejected the spirit and so will never understand the true believer.
   "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. ..." Psalm 23
   Nonbelievers will always challenge the spirit of belief - yet none can alter the spirit of those who truly believe because true believers have individually felt the spirit of God within their lives.
   True believers question not why others have died, nor do they proclaim any superior stature amongst mankind.  They simply possess their own love and devotion to the Lord.
   Reality Talk - you find it insulting, because you do not hear and you do not follow.  As a nonbeliever, you challenge the rights of others to follow because you do not.  The true believer recognizes that this is the way of the wicked - those who want to deny the righteousness of those who believe.  I pray you find the Lord before your end has come.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      taburkett, you are lost. You do not think. I "believe" - truth. You believe fantasy. You believe fables of the long dead from ignorant times. I hope someday you open your eyes to reality.  Because quoting a book of fables, your eyes are wide shut.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Reality-so lost that you will never find, feel, or comprehend the spirit by which the righteous live.  Like many others before you, you will continue to challenge those who have found the spirit because you wish to lower them to your lost level.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      tarburkett, lost is a relative state of mind. To me, you are lost. You quote people you never knew. You believe fables with no proofs. And you condemn all who don't believe your personal delusional thinking. As thought goes, you are but a child.

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      taburkettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Reality - you have erected a physical boundary around yourself.  I have not.  You deny - I do not.  You will never - I will always.  Your boundaries do not enclose me because I am with the spirit every moment of my life.  With this, I reach above.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      taburkett, We r on 2 different planets. Believe what u will, that is your prerogative. U do not know me however, so your pretense is only sad. We are what we chose to be. I will believe reality & search for truth. U can continue to quote scriptur

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   Savio Dawsonposted 11 years ago

   Hi RealityTalk,
   
   I remember a sermon in our church once. Take a minute to read it.
   
   Once a five year old child wanted to play with a knife and asked his father. His father did not allow him and in fact, chided him. The kid thought that his father did not love him. The only interesting toy that the kid found was denied to him. But the father knew that he had done what he had done in the interest of the kid. The kid may take some time to understand or may not understand at all, but the fact remains that the father had taken care of the child.
   
   Even in our lives things happen which we may find to be unreasonable or extremely bad, but the Father has a bigger and better plan. I will not doubt my God, no matter what others think or say.
   
   And anyways, if you give it a thought, wouldn't the children who passed away, be having a better and more quality time with their Creator? If the answer is yes, then where is the insult?

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Savio, I appreciate your sentiment, but you are thinking from one side; god exists. The other side is equally loving and romantic, but sees no man-god with a plan and death is painful - body & mind. There is no better life than now. I want my chi

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      Savio Dawsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I get your point Reality... The sad part is that people who live feel that they were saved and hence the relief.... Honestly, those who passed away also live, don't they? Eternal life... So, the misplaced relief is what causes them to thank God..

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    sarahmooseposted 11 years ago

    I say each to their own, if people want to thank a higher being for their survival and that is their belief, then that is their choice. Personally, I would just think myself incredibly lucky for living through such a big disaster. I don't see the point in being insulted by other individuals' life choices.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       sarahmoose, you miss the "point." You can believe what you want, fantasy or reality. But when one pronounces that they were chosen to live over others, it is insulting. That is stating one must believe what they believe; "see, we know better."

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    RealityTalkposted 11 years ago

    jthomp42,
    
    "RealityTalk.... Do as I do, if something on TV offends you turn the channel. Free speech is a wonderful thing. But, we are not going to always agree. Insulted? A way bit far."
    
    Not much of an answer.  Telling someone to "look the other way."  Reminds me of a South Park cartoon episode about Family Guy's airing an episode showing the image of Muhammad. South Park was afraid the Muslims would attack them if Muhammad's image was shown on TV.  The residents of South Park's answer to their fear was to bury their heads in the sand.
    
    Let me propose a scenario for you.  A tornado hits a small town.  A temple, a church and a charitable organization stand side by side.  The tornado wipes out the church and all its attendants (women, children, babies, 50 in all).  Afterwards, the Rabbi at the temple announces to all that can hear, "praise god.  We prayed and he saved all his chosen ones; the Jewish faithful."  The head of the charitable organization, an atheist, announces to all that can hear, "god did nothing to help those Christians.  So much for praying. We all hid in a safe room and we all survived.  Those fools just prayed."
    
    I would find both what the Rabbi said and the atheist said as insulting.  Neither one was very sensitive to the beliefs of the other.  I am a realist (aka an atheist) and I find both the Rabbi and the Atheist's announcements insulting.  There is a entire church of Christians dead from a catastrophe.  They need sympathy.  Not pronouncements of how their philosophical choices brought about their deaths. And that is what is being said when christians announces praying saved them.
    
    And as far as turning the other channel.  That is called not voicing one's opinion.  If you truly believe what you say, then do not reply to this comment.  Just turn the the channel.  In fact, you never had to answer this question.  But you did.  You did because you could not turn the other channel.  You had an opinion.  We should all invite free speech.  Free speech "is a wonderful thing."  And it goes without saying, not everyone is going to agree on every issue.  But implying that if we disagree that we should speak, not listen and walk away does nothing for anyone.  Ideas are born as much from without as within.

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    Rayne123posted 11 years ago

    God gave us tools to fix the world and we used those tools for mass destruction instead.
    
    God did not do anything to the world we did.
    He allows things to happen and if God wants to tilt the sun he will.
    
    what I am saying is if we ask for help God will help us and we should be ever so grateful for what he has and does for us.
    
    Of course these people are grateful to God for helping them through the storm and of course they are sad for others that did not make it. Its a tough world out there with many mysterious, and the only one who can actually solve these mysteries is God.  We are not "the world" we are in the world.
    
    God will give us what we want if we live his will. However he does not sit up in heaven and allow his planet to be destroyed and come right behind us and say its all ok I will fix everything do as you see fit to my planet. This is what I mean by God intervening for us
    
    God is angry with the wicked everyday and by no means will he allow them to go unpunished. If so we would all be walking on a time bomb, then what is happening in the world today.
    
    I am not saying God caused this earthquake however i am saying he helped everyone through it, he gave peace to those that needed it and helped those find a way to help each other. God does things to lead us to where we need to be for our destiny and that may be meeting others even if it is for a short period of time.
    
    And yes I actually do talk to God and like most can understand, he leads me to my answers or directions of what and where I am suppose to be.
    
    God does not favour anyone and I really do not think those people that gave thanks for their lives meant that at all. I believe if we thank God for what he has/is doing it is only out of love and in return that love passes on forward.
    
    we are mere creations of Gods plan hanging in his battle field preparing for our journey.
    Laurie

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Rayne123, if believing what you wrote gets you through each day, then "god bless." But others like myself believe we must intervene to save the planet. Man is responsible for not only destruction, but construction. Man is responsible for good & e

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    fpherj48posted 11 years ago

    Each and every time I encounter a hub, question or forum, related  to God/Religion, I am compelled to share my own heartfelt belief.  This amazing quote from the last  of the five, Good Roman Emperors. Marcus Aurelius....161-180 AD
    "Live a Good Life.   If there are gods, and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
    If there are gods and they are unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
    If there are no gods...then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life, that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       fpherj48, I love your quote; words to live by.

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