Why do do many believers assume...
...that someone is an atheist because they never looked for god? Why assume anything about a non believer without taking the time to ask? Many many atheists are Diener believers, even former clergy members. How arrogant is it to assume that their belief was not genuine or "real" just because they no longer believe?
Do atheist ever consider believers' belief as genuine and real?!
Are not atheists arrogant to assume believers's beliefs as bogus?
Why expect courtesy when atheists don't have much of it to offer?
C.V.---It would seem that the epitome of arrogance is to believe that a god created the universe for the one who believes that he exists. The universe is estimate at 92 billion light years across. That is 92billionX6 trillion.
CV and why is it appropriate to answer a question with a question? How would you know if they had anything to offer...closed minded people...
This is simply untrue, CV. I absolutely accept that believers genuinely believe in whichever deity they ascribe to and that their beliefs are genuine. That doesn't, however, make what they believe in true.
Mistakes made in the name of religion are still mistakes and they should be corrected. It is the ability to accept change that will make a difference in the world. Dogma doesn't appear to work very well.
Most atheists recognize that religious people hold beliefs. But, they do not accept religious people's beliefs as true anymore than Xians do not believe in other gods. Atheists have a problem when Xians hold their beliefs as fact.
atheists have no problem with Xians beliefs so long as the beliefs do no harm to others. But when we see children dieing from lack of med care while parents "believe" prayer and faith will cure them, that is where I draw the line.
That type of behavior is of course ludicrous. No where does it say in the Bible that people should do this. This type of behavior gives Christianity a bad rap. Just as many hateful and rude atheists give atheism a bad rap.
JT, I'm sorry that you feel I have been rude to you. It's not personal at all. I have my beliefs and you have yours.
Yes we do Austin. I think at times we become overzealous in our beliefs. Saying that I am sorry if you think the same of me. Have a great weekend Austin.
Last word... Humanity is encased in a cocoon of dangerous religious fantasy. Break free and use your resources, time, and intellect to advance and protect humanity while you still have the chance. No cockamamie god is going to do it for you...
I agree Craig. If a god was going to save the planet, he/she/it would have done so in the first place. All the belief in the world will not create a savior where none exists.
I think the reason people subscribe to an omnipotent, omniscient deity is because they really want someone to make everything okay. Less worry if you think someone else has your back. Look how many people "leave it in the Lord's hands."
Bam! That is the hammer hitting that nail squarely on its head!
As Christians this is a completely false accusation. God says plainly in the Bible that he helps those who help themselves. We cannot leave every problem we have to God. If nothing else, Christians have much more on their plate than non-believers.
Aren't Christians the one's that are always praying to their "savior" though? It seems as though you still want something else to save us from ourselves. To be Christian is to believe in "the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ". You have even said that.
Of course we do Austin. But, this does not mean that God grants every prayer. God knows our needs, and our "wants." We do not need all that is prayed for. The hardest part is people put us on a higher standard and call us hypocrites if we defend God.
JT - Not you personally, but there are a lot of hypocrites out there in the religious world. Sure, most are sincere, but the ones that say things like "pray away the gay" and women are inferior to men are just heinous. We need to educate them..
I agree Austin there are religious fanatics just as there are those who are fanatical about other things. I call it "inherited religion." They will believe what they are told by their elders instead of researching it in the Bible themselves. Not good
JT, not a false accusation, a very valid observation. You assume that I have no understanding of Xians. Trust me, I was one. Went to Catholic schools and was indoctrinated. Read the Bible. Familiar with the passage. Xians still expect help.
Catholicism is a complete variation of Christianity. Their own Bible, and very staunch man made rules in which are not accepted in the majority of Christianity. Catholics worship Mother Mary and the pope. Christ is the only common denominator.
LOL The majority of Christians are in fact Catholic. Not only are they the biggest group but they make up more that half of all Christians.
Dudley- not to mention without Catholicism there would be no Bible today - that in fact protestants REMOVED canonized books from the Bible that were at one time included, and Catholics are responsible for canonical Scripture and preservation of it.
A complete and utter display of ignorance on his part.
JT -- The tired old insults about Catholicism, eh? If I were still Catholic, I'd be offended by your ignorant statements and your name calling. Catholics do not worship Mary or the pope. Churches in other denoms use the same prayers. Seen it myself.
I just want to say I KNOW the percentage of Catholics concerning Christianity. I respect their beliefs and their worship of a man and of Mother Mary. This does not mean that I agree with it. As far as nasty comments; they are not necessary.
For most deity worshipers, it is a selfish and very egotistical position that centers on themselves and what they believe. There seems to be no empathy within these people and definitely very few have any knowledge of the history of what they believe and what knowledge they do have is twisted and convoluted to fit nicely into their own comfort zone,
Atheism, agnosticism and the non affiliated numbers in this country are rising at a rapid pace and it would be silly to think that they were born into these mind sets. They are converts from the religious, which means that they were there and possessed that 'belief' syndrome and turned their back and walked away.
For the non-believers, in humanity, the gods provide a safe haven from the realty of life, from the responsibility of living a good life based upon their own abilities and not hiding behind a facade of the pretense of a god.
Simple, most people are trained as a child to believe in what they do.
If your a believer in a merciful god, go to Youtube and watch a few of the Japanese tsunami's. If you still believe, see a cult deprogrammer...
I have watched them several times. It actually increases my faith in God! What a fury of nature only God can create! A man hardly 6 ft tall with a kilo or two of brain thinks he can intellectually analyze and declare God does not exist!
I wonder what you would think if you were on high ground during one of those tsunami's and watched your entire family get washed away? You'd probably go to church, light some candles and leave some more money right?
Indeed the scenario will be the most difficult one for me to digest. But I think a theist will behave like a theist only in such a situation. He will only cling to God to get succor for his pain and sorrow. contd...
After witnessing a tragedy like that, anyone that still believes in a merciful god I'm forced to consider insane. By the way, I'm 73 years old and an author of three books. I never heard the words theist and succor before. Interesting!...
C.V.Rajan, honestly? If you believe in a merciful, all powerful god, why didn't your god prevent the tsunami?
I think the "over-emphasis" with God's mercy needs a very very subtle understanding of religion and spirituality. It is impossible to understand it without accepting Karma and reincarnation. As per Hinduism destruction is also God's play.
I can answer that Maggie. Simple, there is no merciful god.
CJ, see the danger here? You just can't say "beats the hell out of me can you?" Your going to believe no matter what...
I think you may have your cj's and cv's confused.
C.V., so you talk about how your god can create a fury of nature, but you're quick to explain away why your god murdered people because you believe in reincarnation. Why rush the process? We all die. At least most people do ;-)
Why not just take it for what it is. "Mother nature" was created by God as well as everything in this world.Just because mother nature can be a fury and take peoples lives does not mean that God is at fault.Those who disagree look up 'Free will."
JThomp, so you're willing to ascribe all good things to your god and not all bad things? And yes, I understand the free will concept. But how does free will involve a tragedy that no human can correct? Again, if you believe in a merciful god...
With all of the natural disasters that happen on this planet; who knows how many he has prevented for happening. If he was truly an unmerciful, unjust, egotistical God would he not strike down those who oppose him?
Maybe he doesn't care. Or maybe he isn't all powerful. Or maybe he has his own problems. Or maybe he doesn't exist.
You said why rush? Let us say a mad killer starts shooting indiscriminately at street killing many people. The police comes and shoots the killer to death. Will you say, why rush the process?! Human justice can be explained; God's, diffclt.
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to say, "how can man with limited intellect judge God who is unlimited? Can a one-liter-vessel hold 4 liters of milk?"
Your god has no compassion and no justice.
Believers accept their beliefs. They do not appear to be able to accept "non-belief", or the facts and conditions that lead to non-belief. Believers are stuck with the "faith" thing. They have been told to "have faith in their deities". Even when that faith is a lie, they cling to it. Faith is not proof. Faith is not effective at healing the sick, or replacing lost limbs. No matter how much proof is presented that faith doesn't work, believers will continually look for proof that faith exists and works. Faith is different from trust. Trust is science and proof based. Faith is based on unproven dogma. Believers are unable to see this difference.
Which part of my comment is "claiming my way is the only way"?
Well said except you offer no solution. Before we annihilate humanity we must bring an end to organized religions that perpetuate the deception and lies for their own personal gain. I say, believe what ever you wish, just stay away from organizations
Who said anything about annihilating humanity? I do agree about annihilating organized religions. But they need to replaced with free contraception and education. Without education, we cannot change the world. And there r just too many people!
In only the last few decades we have possessed weapons that can annihilate humanity in a matter of days such as smallpox. How long do you suppose it will be before some religious moron decides to pull the cork?
Craig, I think your comment should be posed as a separate question here at HP. It doesn't appear to be related to JM's question, or my answer..
Your right Austin, I diverse but if we don't do all we can to stop this religious insanity, we won't have HubPages to express our opinions in any more or anything else for that matter...
Since cries of "censorship" have already started, I will simply say this: I do not delete comments of believers. I delete the comment of ONE believer because of his tactics and methods for interaction which have been proven time and time again to me and many, many others. I have told him previously that he will be deleted on my questions due to his behavior. That type of behavior will not be tolerated in my answers or hubs, especially since the Hypocrisy displayed is laughable. Resourcing comments are welcome, regardless of what you believe.
Thank you for saying this. The person in question doesn't seem to understand polite discussion and the editing that goes along with posting on HP.
Very good explanation, JM. I agree. I'm having the same problem with one of my questions right now. A certain Hubber seems to be set on just mocking for the sake of it.
Actually you're wrong about this, Jeff. From Jack's first post on my question, it's been nothing but manipulation. He insists that I meant something that I don't. His deceit is certainly not reflecting well on his supposed Christian faith.
I don't expect you to sit back, but is it too much to expect Christians (who say they serve the God of Truth) not to outright lie and deceive? Is it ok to lie about someone if they're an atheist?
Well, I'm not involved in whatever you're talking about here. It just seems to me that Jack is further proof that's one's supposed Faith doesn't keep one from lying and manipulating others.
Yeah, I haven't lied. His behavior is atrocious, and he deletes the answers of some atheists, which makes his complaint hypocritical. All true. Still deleted. I'm done with that type of childish game playing, sorry.
Jeff, I've known you two (on HP) for a while now and I have to agree that you do play childish games with atheists and never listen to them. Also, if you have been banned, you know it's because of something YOU did...we can't just have you banned.
I have told you several times that I will not interact with you. You can see that as a victory if you want, I don't care. You will be deleted from my questions solely due to your behavior, not for any other reason. I'm sorry you don't understand
The problem is that it's your behavior overall, not on one particular question. Everyone sees it, and when you claim to be attacked for criticism or challenge of your belief but do the same to someone else, it's disingenuous and dishonest.
Thank you for so eloquently and maturely affirming my point.
Craig Suits - your response about the Japanese tsunami rung a bell. I once substitute taught a high school class where the lesson was about tsunamis. I told the story of a man who was the oldest resident of a tiny island in Japan. The ocean receded, and he was the only one who knew what that meant, because it had happened when he was a little boy. Yet, he could not warn the other residents because this happened in the 14th century, and there was no mass media in those days. I asked the class what they would do in his place. They had no idea. One girl responded, "Pray to God". I didn't say this, but it occurred to me if God gave a rip, tsunamis wouldn't happen in the first place.
What the old man did was go to the top of the hill, where the village rice crop was dried and ready for harvest, and set it on fire. Everyone rushed up there to put it out, scolding him the whole time. But they discovered why he did it when the tsunami came in. Not one life was lost.
This is a quintessimal Japanese tale. Japan's main religions are Buddhism (non-theistic), Confucianism (atheistic), and Shinto (polytheist, and a type of ancestor / nature worship). They don't cater to one jealous, allegedly all-powerful deity. Yet they're getting along just fine.
That was a very smart guy. As far as them getting along just fine I'm not so sure. They still believe and practice ancient beliefs that keep them from learning thr truth and cost them billions in resources and centuries in progress.
How is that? Japan is one of the most progressive countries in the world!
There are so many negatives for any society that's engrossed in religious practices it's staggering. Just think of the money and man hours wasted building shrines and praying when science could be advanced 1000 fold.
Actually, Japan's government stopped funding Shintoism after WWII. People there still practice Shinto and other religions, but it's not hindering their progress; Japan produces the world's best engineers. So they're doing just fine.
Yes, it does seem rather arrogant doesn't it? I'm sure that of no surprise to you though. There is no need to be shocked by someone's arrogance when that someone also believes this vast universe was made entirely for him and with only him in mind and all the maker wants in return is his love and worship. His love and worship is somehow immensely important to the maker of this vast universe.
The arrogance seems to just follow the profile.
It's because people are egocentric and just assume that atheists have the same experiences that makes the believer believe. Either that, or they've decided that atheists are dense individuals, are people who don't believe in a god because they're gay (yes, I've seen that argument on Facebook), or are people who are basically bad who don't want to live with rules.
I'm pretty stunned by those beliefs, but there you go. For the record, I'm an agnostic heathen. You can take that for what it's worth.
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