Christian Discussion

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   I've noticed there's a zillion threads about Christianity and other beliefs, etc.   (Well, not a zillion, but ya know);  and I think they're all hugely interesting.   But haven't seen one that's specifically labeled for Christian discussion.
   Someone please point me to one if there's one around?
   If not, that's what I'd like to make this one about, if anyone's interested.
   
   ?

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      There have been several but unfortunately they don't get far because those who oppose christianity or all religion altogether come over and hijack it into a hate fest.
      
      Plus, some people have it in their minds that if you start a Christian thread, then some how you must believe that you are better than a non christian and God is a hateful figment of peoples imagination because anyone who believes in God has a superiority complex.
      
      Thus (phew, taking a breath) by creating animosity in the relgions forum, some can point to God as being the sole cause for the conditions of life and give them every reason under the sun to exact more hate.
      
      Then it spreads like a disease.  One group wants to talk about the good stuff, the other group wants to talk about hate and push the hate button to the point where when a Christians says something not entirely positive, they can once again say... see what your God does, hater!  Neener, neener, neener.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah.
         I've already observed that kind of thing happening around here..
         
         Well, hey, it's still worth a shot.
         
         I'm not one to shy away just 'cause there might be opposition.
         
         But also, since many have made it clear they don't like prayers and related stuff,  just maybe they'll pass this thread by and leave it to those of us who really are interested in fellowship and discussion.

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            h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            That is my hope too, Brenda

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               sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Sounds good.  Brenda, how about you lead the discussion. 

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               Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Holly, I hope you're doing okay today!  It's already been good "meeting" you on this site.

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                  Internetwriter62posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Sandra, what you're saying is so true.

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                     NA the greatposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     i agree with you. Its improtant to follow everything what is written in the book rather than looking at those things which we enjoy.

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                     CollBposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes definitely.  However, I can only say that we have a choice of believing or not in a God and that it is for others to chose what they want to believe by reading what Christians and non believers say.
                     
                     It's a combination of faith, life experiences and doctrines as well as what we know from friends and family, as well as society.

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            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            it is even simpler than that. Don't start forums by attacking non believers and most of us are happy to let you chat among yourselves!

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               h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I would have been more convinced of your "letting" the chat be if you hadn't popped in :)Holly

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            Specialk3749posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I have noticed this too!  Thanks for getting this thread going.  I really would like some "real" Christian fellowship.  I haven't participated in much of the religion forums because of the negativity.

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               Internetwriter62posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               One of our Christian brothers, who is also a pastor started his own Christian Fellowship site and I think part of his reason for doing so, is because he wanted Christians to experience some fellowship.

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      Specialk3749posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      One of my favorites:
      
      Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose.
      
      This verse assures me that there is nothing coincidental!  God is in control of all things, good or bad, and He will use them to bring out the best in me. It really helps increase my faith.

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      lcg4jcposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Brenda,
      I am so blessed to see your hub. Thank you for not permitting others to go off the subject. You have great administration over your hub.
      God bless you

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you lcg4jc,  and welcome to HubPages!  I'm gonna read some of your hubs.   Hope your day's going well. 

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      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Then how would you define a Chirstian? JWs and Mormons say that they are the only true Christians all others e.g. Catholics and Protestants and the like are heretics?

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I define a Christian as simply a follower of Christ.
         The Christian "religion", however, has been shaped by and under many different denominations....
         Some of those have turned into a whole other religion.
         Some of that fame of the denominations or religions is taken control of by church leaders, etc., when in fact the church members may not all know, nor agree with, some of the doctrines.
         
         For instance, I believe the Catholic Church teaches much error, but that there are Christians in the Catholic Church, in spite of the man-made writings of the Popes and other catechisms.  And if those Believers will pick up their Bibles instead of depending solely on what the priests say, they could succeed in changing the Catholic Church into a religion full of born-again children of God! 
         
         Mormonism I know very little about, except that most preachers have exposed its core beliefs as based on false assumptions and interpretations, like the J.W.'s.
         Anytime I'm confronted with Jehovah's Witnesses,  I say I AM a witness for Jehovah (God), but not of the J.W. religion.
         It doesn't bother me one whit if J.W.'s and Mormons call me a heretic!   I have the knowledge of the simplest form of any Christian "religion" that I can think of, or that anyone else can think of.   All one has to do is go to the Bible and read what Christ did for mankind, and go from there, searching out who He is and what His plan is for us, and it unravels all the complications that "religion" ensnares people with.

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            paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The bitter reality is that almost all who call themselves Christians follow the mythical religion of Paul instead following the pristine teachings of real Jesus.

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               Me, Steve Waltersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Every part of what you just said is a contradiction. Paul followed Jesus teachings. Sorry if you don't see it...but Christian believers do. I promise ya' they do...and with out all the the theological rationalizing of merit and consequences...in thought...that you seem to give it. We simply take Jesus at his word...and all his followers. It is not a novel concept. I am pretty sure you do the same thing with your religion!

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Jews aren't christians, unless, of course, they have accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Last time I checked christian jewry is a minority aspect.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            paarsurrey said "JW's" (Jehovah's Witnesses), not Jews.
            
            But I agree with your post.

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            Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You are right Druid Dude.Jews are not Christians.They reject the Christian Faith because it conflicts with their old Covenant ways.It is written in Rom 10 v 1,2,3....my prayer for Israel is that they might be saved.Some will and some won't as it is and will be in all other genders,faiths, and nationalities of the world.
            And also in verse 2....  they have a zeal,but not according to knowledge.
            And in verse 3.....they have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
            How can one wash without water?

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               paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Like Christians are not Jews; both have gone to the extremes of the Truthful Word of the Creator-God; if one is on the north pole the other is on the south pole.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Christianity isn't extreme.
                  
                  The belief in God, the Creator, exists in both Judaism and Christianity.
                  
                  Let's talk about Islam, which IS for the most part a polar opposite of Judaism, and of Christianity.
                  
                  The Jewish religion is similar to Islam in one way only that I can think of------they both missed (or deny) the first coming of the Messiah Jesus.
                  
                  paarsurrey, did your god Allah love mankind so much that he sent a manifestation of himself to die for all of mankind, giving us an opportunity to have our sins forgiven?
                  
                  Does your god love us, paarsurrey?

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      Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      First you have to separate Religion from Christianity.Religion is a made-up and self-inspired way of presenting God by personal agenda.
      Christianity is from above and related to God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
      Most do and will claim the name,but cannot claim the fame.Christianity is misunderstood,and misinterpreted by the masses.
      
      Image and Identity follows every true believer as it is written in Matt 7 v 16 ye shall know them by their fruits.
      The world wants to have their cake and eat it too.So they invented ways of  trying to do so by promoting their own Religion.But,as it is also written:Not everyone that call Me Lord,Lord shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I agree Christianity is often misinterpreted and misunderstood, and that, yes, there's often a difference between religion and Christianity.
         
         I also agree with you in your second post.
         
         Hope you're having a wonderfully Blessed day today, Apostle Jack.

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            Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks Brenda.I will connect with you as a contact.I seems that God have bless your intellect to understand.And by that token It is an honor to meet you.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It's more a matter of I simply love the One who first loved me.  All honor and glory and power to Him who sits on the Throne! 

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                  Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  All praises is due to Him,but He rewards us by His grace as a light that is recognized by our action and reactions in this world.The choices that we make in life brings honor or dishonor to our spirits.Your choice was honorable,not that we are honored above God.How can God be honored within us if we don't make the right choice for Him to be seen therein.
                  We are spirits within flesh. That spirit have to be recognized as a good or evil spirit by what and how we perform in our spirits.
                  But it is good to know that you put God first in your life.That is also an honorable trait.I said that to say this......expand your knowledge as to what honor is.

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm....not sure what you mean.  I don't worry about honor much from other humans.  I do want to honor God in my life.
                        Jesus was both revered and honored by some, and reviled and persecuted by others.  And at different times, loved and yet denied by the same persons/people (such as Peter). The life of a Christian contains all those things and we must face each as it comes, and within our abilities.  Some things I just leave up to the Lord because He is the one who can keep me from falling.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Honor thy father and thy mother,as it  is written in the 10 commandments.Why do you think the word honor is there?

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, that's good Scripture.
                           The first commandment with promise of being well and living long!
                           I, as well as many people, I imagine, including other Christians, have learned something about that the hard way.  I've dishonored my parents several times.  My only consolation is of course that I've obtained forgiveness for those sins.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              So now what I said to you I now say again:expand your knowledge as to what honor is.And may God bless your spirit in doing so.
                              
                              Your choice will bring you honor or dishonor.The right choice will glorify God in your spirit.The wrong choice will dishonor yourself and God within you and bring negative consequences to your spirit.

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                                 Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I'll try to consider that.  Hopefully you can provide me with more Scripture references to back up the idea you're trying to convey?  Because you're still a bit unclear about what point you're trying to make.
                                 Will you also consider the book of John, first Chapter?  It clearly reveals something that you should know.   ...I've actually known a few strong Christians besides yourself who didn't recognize Jesus as God until they looked at those Scriptures and were exhorted to do so more fully.

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      pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I do declare brenda...please commence to just letting this old thred die instead of digging it up every time you miss it. its just disgusting and boring as a church pughe.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I find it quite refreshing actually.   And thought-provoking, and full of fellowship and a good place to express Christian thoughts and wonderful Scriptures.
         And even fascinating sometimes, such as when it draws in someone so obviously in need of prayer, like you.   I'll pray for you.  Thanks for coming by!
         

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            pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            you seem like a sweet 'blind' creature that means well.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you!  Sincerely.

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      Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What is a Christian but one that separates themselves from paganism and world religions.One that keep Church and state separated like oil and water.
      A true Christian don't vote nor hold hands with politics
      .A true Christian have a separate image from corruption and falsehood.They don't sell the word of God for it is written"as freely as you have received...freely give.
      There are so many ways to raise money for whatever need there is for church regulation.
      To sell the word of God is to sell ones soul to the devil.....because that is where the idea originated....it did not come from God.
      True Christians don't believe Santa Claus nor pagan traditions of the world that opposes biblical principals. Just for the record.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Apostle Jack, I'm not sure why you brought up the subject of "selling" the word of God, and....I could argue some points about the other points you posted like the "church and state" issue,
         
         but for now I'll say this---
         
         A true Christian is simply a born-again child of God, one who has repented of his/her sins and accepted Jesus as their Savior.
         
         And I see no reason why a Christian shouldn't vote.   Matter of fact, I believe the votes of many Christians helped get George Bush elected, while the apathy of many got the anti-Christian Obama elected.   So it seems very needful to me for Christians TO continue to have a say in politics.
         
         I wish I had been online before now.  I would've debated better with ya!  ha.   But I've been having a bad bout of arthritis and other things going on at home, so I've been very scarce, and probably will be for a while longer...
         So, maybe "argue" with ya another time!

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   I'm interested in hearing your favorite Bible verse, and why; what special meaning or application does it have in your life?

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      h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Brenda,
      
        I am not sure where the scripture is located, but roughly...
      
      There will be a day with no more pain, no more tears, when the burdens of this place will be no more.
      
        For me it symbolizes when my flesh has failed, I will no longer suffer and live on oxycontin and pain meds. That all my physical pain will end and cancer will have lost.
        Holly

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         Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Amen!
         I'm so glad you've shared that.  I pray for your comfort here in this life and yes the next Life is gonna be soooo awesome!

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            sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Amen to that as well. New flesh, no pain and harmony. Something none have experienced before.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You know that I am not religious. But, I agree with you. I think death of this life is the easy part and nothing to fear when we have to leave it.

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            SL Perrinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            A note from observations:  Many say I am not religious, or I have no religion.  Maybe they will ask what religion are or maybe what denomination?  Well from what I have noted from Scripture Jesus mentioned religion, but that was towards the Pharisee's, and Sadducee's who had and ran a religion.  Their religion was saying I know there is a God and instilled many acts along with the words.  Jesus made his counter statements to them when he was attacked by them. 
            Now my take is I have no religion or consider myself religious, rather a person of faith with Christ as my Savior.  The denomination does not come into play with me just as it did not with Jesus.  He was never divided therefore neither shall I be.
            
            Oh by the way Brenda the piece I told you about is on the hub now.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I have no religion either!
               
               I consider Christianity to be simply following Christ.
               
               But legalistically and denominationally, it has taken on (or rather, been given) a myriad of definitions, many of which are twisted or false.

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                  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  And how do you follow Jesus?

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Adore Him.  He is God, after all.  Read His word (the Holy Bible, which is HIS story;  it's "all about" Him, both the Old Testament and the New).  Have the Love in one's heart that He had/has.  The kind of Love that tells others about Him and doesn't want anyone's soul to burn in the lake of fire.

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            ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Marine!

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      Dave Mathewsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      John: 3: 16-17
      "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall have everlasting life,for God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world but that through him the world might be saved."
      
      This is my favourite quote from The Holy Bible and for me the most important one. By my belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, my Eyernal Spirit will be saved from damnation when I die, and I will be able to be with my God and my saviour for eternity, and know them personally as my family.
      
      Brother Dave Mathews.

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      paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend Brenda Durham
      
      With all courtesy and civility I would state that I am the only truthful believer of Jesus Christ, all others according to my faith are only Pauline.
      
      The only verse in part in the Bible which could be from Jesus mouth in Jesus' mother tongue Aramaic is:
      
      Matthew 27:46   And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
      
      Jesus had prayed to the Creator-God Allah YHWH to save his life most fervently with crying and weeping that he was sure that his prayer has been accepted and would be saved a cursed death on Cross; yet he knew that he was only a human being not needed by God so God could turned down his supplications at His own discretion at any time; so he said O' my God why have you forsaken me.
      
      God was with him and saved him and he was delivered in a near-did position and in reward Jesus was awarded a long and peaceful life of about 120/125 years.
      
      I am only expressing my faith; others could happily differ with me with solid reasons, if any
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful muslim

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         Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Jesus was...a person that no one can compare fully to, and none could even come close to  comparing well to him at all, if it were not for His grace that covers us.
         
         Jesus was at once fully human and yet in Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead.   He was a man.  He was the Son of God the Father.  He was God.  He is God.
         
         You say others could differ from you for "solid reasons", and by that you mean earthly reasons.  I say I will differ from you for more Powerful reasons than that.  I will differ from you because I've met the Man and the God toward whom you hold such unbelief.
         
         
         Jesus was the perfect example for all of mankind.  He still is, for all intents and purposes of God.   Those who think they've become so "spiritual" that they dismiss Jesus's sacrifice are making an error.  Skye2day said it well;  Christ's Spirit (the Holy Ghost) IS the Anointing.
         
         
         How could Jesus possibly set the perfect example for all mankind if he didn't go through persecution and literal physical death as a MAN?   He suffered physcially;  his pain would've been unbearable if it were not for the Spirit inside him;  perhaps he would have cried out and denied the Father, if it were not for that.   That Spirit is something we can all have; that's what Jesus was showing us.   
         
         When he cried out "Why hast Thou forsaken me?",  he proved his humanity and his need for God's help; it proved his submission to Him.
         
         The Bible says "..He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."
         Those words are in the New Testament, but the Plan was begun in the Old Testament, and it applied to Christ, as well as to all Believers.
         The Father knew Jesus's heart, knew Jesus's intent and determination to fulfill his mission.   Dying on the Cross was the Plan for Jesus;  and Jesus made up his mind to fulfill that Plan;  the Father knew this.   Just because he cried out as he was dying doesn't show doubt;  it showed his complete trust in the Father; it showed the perfect example of how humans must depend upon God to help them, not only at their last breath, but especially at their last breath!
         Jesus was aware of his divinity as well!  It was just housed in an earthly body.  He knew he could've called legions of angels to retrieve him from the Cross;  yet he chose to depend on the Father's Plan to be fulfilled,  to allow that human body to be killed,  for OUR sakes!  For YOUR sake, paarsurrey.   The followers of Christ are telling you that you need Jesus in order to be saved, in order to be born again, to become a new creature in Christ, to enter heaven eventually.
         
         The Word has gone out to you.  You will either lend an ear to it, or else you will continue on your own path, following men that wouldn't endure much at all for your sake, much less death;  that's your choice.

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            paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend Brenda Durham
            
            I don't agree with you. Can one be a sibling of a rabbit and horse at one time? No, it cannot be; and it never was.
            
            You have to select one; either say Jesus was a god or that he was a man.
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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               Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               It is written that God walked with Adam and Enoch. I am quite sure thst God would have apeared as looking like a Man.
                
                  He must have taken human form?

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                  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi friend  Jerami
                  
                  It is the style of writing or translating of the scribes of Judaism. Judaism do not believe that the Creator- God Allah YHWH was a physical being. The meant God was pleased with Adam and Enoch.
                  
                  Thanks
                  
                  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                     Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     This is the core reason that there so much division in the church today.....
                       I realize that in this instance, God is not the one saying this    But every time God is being quoted; Everyone has got something diffrent to say about what God meant to say.
                        
                        Do people not think that God speaks well enough to say what he means to say??
                     
                        Sometimes I think that people are looking for some other meaning in everything that they read, than the one thing that is simply expressed.

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                     Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I am not a Muslim but Paarsurrey is right that God did not come Himself...He sent His son.Misinterpretation have cause the masses to convey the wrong message concerning this matter of father and son.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  He walked in the spirit with them,not in the flesh.Which is why humankind lost certain spiritual knowledge because of the sins of Adam and Eve.
                  Now we have to regain that spirituality which is why Christ was predestine by God to come forth to give us back what we lost.
                  
                  Humankind is lacking in spiritual knowledge, and they try in vain to put everything in one basket.When they get tired of bumping their heads against the wall,only then can they see beyond the end of their nose.

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                     Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Apostle Jack ...  You may be right ?  I personally do not see that it makes a difference if God were seen as if he were in the flesh or not.  It is written that no one on earth can look into Gods face and live.  But they were in the garden of Eden which I never understood to be on the earth or in the physical realm.
                     
                     
                        What this means I have no idea.
                     
                        I just know that I have a relationship with what I preceive to be the God of Abraham, and my understanding of Christianity is diferent than most.  In the end ....  I don't think that this will make any difference.
                         I will be true to the God of Abraham to the best of my ability as I understand him to be. 
                        I think that this is all that any of us can do.
                        And I don't think that he expects any more than that from any of us.
                        
                       BUT   I Know NOthing.  I only believe whole heartedly.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        You spoke well,but you are lacking in knowledge.In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth is where God created the garden of Eden.
                        
                        It always make a difference as to what we believe or don't believe.Correct and incorrect are stipulations based on what is true and what is not true.
                        It concerns direction,ability of spirit,purpose,image,and intelligence.
                        These things make a difference to the integrity of who we are,where we have been and where we are going.
                        The wrong direction can send you into a tail-spin,confusion,and distant from the reality of God.
                        Like fiction is from and none-fiction,or like oil is from and water.They are as far away from each other as evil is from good.How and what one believes makes a big difference in the out come of what is said and done within our spirits.

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               wilmiers77posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Why? Who says that you have to choose Jesus as being a deity or a  human being? Apparently he was both by the evidence in history. Until you find His body and prove that it is Him, I say nonsense to your statement.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Amen!
                  I say nonsense to paarsurrey's statement too!

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            NA the greatposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            its so true, most of the commandments written in the Bible are not at all followed especially by the new generation. those who follow them are considered mostly outdated. this thinking should have been changed

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               Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks for coming by this thread.   Sorry I didn't say hello before now;  but my internet connection seems to have a mind of its own sometimes, and cuts out in intervals.

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      Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Wherein I suffer trouble as an evil doer even unto bonds but the Word of God is not bound. II
      Timothy 2:9. I have troubles and sometimes let them bind me, I have to ask God to forgive that and set me free from the bonds I place on myself. But God is not bound His Word is not bound and as Paul said I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. We need to learn to CONTINUALLY give everything to Christ Jesus and not let our flesh be bound by our own ineptness to truly trust and follow HIm.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Amen to that Word.
         
         (I'm back in the AMEN Corner!  Thank you Michael.  I think I'm too tired to really be debating anything tonight.  Maybe you will elaborate even further on what that liberty in Christ means?)

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            Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Liberty in Christ oh man where shall I start. I had a sin debt I was about to drive my wife away from me, she had all she could take but loved me so much she couldn't go. I knew I was the one in the wrong but pride and shamelessness kept me pushing. Our marriage was over, yet we deep down in loved each other but something had to happen. I finally hit my knees and quoted Jeremiah, just a few little words,"I am cut off". I came to her and told her I knew exactly what needed to be done, I knew if we were to keep our marriage we needed to put ourselves back into church, we needed to trust God and God alone, quit taking the advice from friends and family and give it to Him, I had been BOUND up by my sin, I had not trusted HIm for answers and was trying to go at life alone and by myself, I had distilled in my heart that the only person I could ever trust was MYSELF, and I didn't even do that well. BUT I knew my favorite verse"Wherein I suffer trouble even unto bonds, but the Word of God is not bound", I knew God could save my marriage, I knew if I gave it all to Him He would see me through, I knew I needed to repent of my erring ways and restore the joy of his salvation I had so earlier came to in my life. I had to go to Him or He would come to me, not in the way I would have wanted either. But in God's grace and glory I was able to cry out "oh God forgive me a sinner". No I did not specify sins I gave oit all to Him and cried for forgiveness, and my God forgave me He made me whole again, he broke the shackles off my flesh that I may serve Him, My wife and I have two ministries now( see my hubs) and we are a living sacrifice for God our King, we gave it all to Him and He has abundantly filled us with His mercies and treasures beyond our feeble comprehension, therefore, I will serve Him from now to glory, I will make known the paths of the Lord, His precepts I will learn and teach,His ways are my ways, I a,m a Christian born again not of corruptible seed but the seed of the father in Heaven.I praise God I am in His will I am doing His work and He is allowing us to do so, PRAISE GOD AMEN!!!          ( I almost feel I should give an invitation now!)

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               Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Now THAT's an edifying testimony!  Sounds like the Spirit-filled little ol' Baptist Church I grew up in! 
               Thank you Michael; and thank God for this, because it's been a while since I saw someone let it all spill out for His glory the way you just did!
               Hey, come on Brother and give that altar call! lol 
               His Word never returns void, whether it's now or whether your words sit on a page and aren't seen til another time.  That I believe!

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                  Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Brenda glad hear you grew up in a good ol' baptist church! I only preach what I know and by the direction of God's Holy Spirit. I do not have the itching ear syndrome so many preachers have today. If the Word of God offends someone preaching the unerring truth then they need to make a decision for their direction their lives have taken, I make no apologies ( yet if I do err on the truth and a brother corrects me I am humble enough to listen and accept what is said)

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Then you are one of the few-and-far-between that walk in that Spirit.  Tonight I pray the ears of those in need of the Savior will be opened and their hearts softened toward the God who Loves them so much!   He is a patient Lord, but He has said His Spirit will not always strive with mankind.  I'm so glad to be reminded that He IS still at work in many ways!

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                        Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        The old preacher slowed his voice and softened his withered hand, tears rolled down his cheeks as he said," let me end with this, my friends we have not the promise of tomorrow, God said his spirit will not always strive with man,( his voice cracking eyes engulfed in tears) last week I was on a porch of a dear man to show him salvation is of God, after 20 minutes of talking he told me he was not ready perhaps later, I reminded him God's spirit will not always strive with man, he said he understood that but he said it was time for me to go. I walked off that porch and heard a thud,(now emotionally spent and sobbing the preacher finished) the man had his hands clutched to his chest, dead, his heart gave out, no heart attack it just stopped, my friends what will you do today"'

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Didn't see that post yet;  can't pass it up!
                           Thank you so much for posting that!

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                           Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           I have heard some of the greatest preachers in America today preach the Gospel, I have sat and eaten lunch with them, their education is truly amazing and some even are homiletics profs, but this about the old preacher man he was in his 60's at the time(25 years ago) and he had a 6th grade education but was one of the best preachers I had ever heard.

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      Cedar Cove Farmposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
      Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
      Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
      
      This is the "Litmus test" of our faith.  Any bible teaching should pass this test.  This is a great thread, thanks.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Here's mine! "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son,that whosoever believeth in him should have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world,   but,   that the world through Him,   might be saved."
      
      This says it all for me!

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      heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I like these verses in the bible>Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
      
      As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
      
      Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
      
      For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
      
      Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Amen!   Such awesome encouraging verses!  Our God is able to keep us from falling by the power of His Love and His word,  when discouragement is all around us otherwise.
         
         Thank you so much for posting that, heavenbound.  It's a timely word today.

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   Lita C. Malicdemposted 15 years ago

   Not very good in bible passage search but here's my guide in my daily life:
   
   "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness".
   
   Makes me feel good all the time, teaches me not to insist on my own but leave it all to God's righteous ways.

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      nellseenposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I WAS RAIISED  AS  A   PK   AND NOW I AM SIXTY ONE AND NOW JUST HAVE THE RELATTONSHIP  WITH GOD THAT I 'M FREE FROM ALL THAT STUFF PEOPLE  LIKE TO  SREW UP ABOUT GOD. I  JUST READ   PALSM  91   AND  HAVE  FAITH   IN HIM

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   So cool!
   I love this "meeting" already.
   Good to meet fellow Christians every time.
   I gotta go do some stuff;  hope to see y'all again!

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   kessposted 15 years ago

   Are you willing to hear how false christianity is From someone who actually know the Christ?

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   Sorry, kess,
   but I stopped listening to the Devil a while back.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   My favorite Scripture is simple
   
   Genesis 1: 1
   
   If someone is willing to believe that verse,  all the rest of the Word will fall into order.

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      Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      One of my favorite verses is like Gen 1:1 it is John 1:1

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         Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Yes!  Awesome Word, ain't it?! And AWESOME Word He IS! 

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            You are funny sometimes.
            
            He? LOLOLOLOLOL

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               Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Indeed on both counts.  Thanks!
               Yes, Jesus is the Word.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  LOLOLOL Yes - I know you did not understand the bible - you have made that perfectly clear. Jesus? LOLOL Funny stuff.

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                     ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Doing your best to keep the herd from multiplying i see.

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   SL Perrinposted 15 years ago

   Hello to all visiting this discussion.  I have a couple of areas that I use for myself as well as to explain things to others.  Psalm 1 all 5 verses help me to understand that without the proper nourishment we will dwindle.  After having read it multiple times there are still many views to derive from it.  Everyone that I know is a Jn 3:16 quoter.  My question is do they or maybe you understand the verses before and after it being Jn 3:1-21.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   Great verses, all of them.
   I love John 3;  it tells us about being born-again, Amen!
   I would wish everyone were interested in that Chapter.
   Do you have more thoughts on it you'd like to speak about or discuss?

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      SL Perrinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I had written a piece on that chapter and set of verses in a book (short but written nonetheless)  I would be glad to share on my hubs if you would like to read the whole of it?  I share many of the ideas I have written on scrap-notes and those I have l lived through or friends have shared with me.  Reading John helps me to remember that I am a sinner, and a human put in this world, but with his help and guidance I do not have to be of this world.  My acceptance came from his mercy and grace upon the sinful ways I managed to accumulate; yet asked for his forgiveness from them.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Sure I'd like to read 'em.
         I love any Biblical interpretations and especially testimonies about our awesome God!

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            SL Perrinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I have another one in mind to post tomorrow, but I will also post the John piece as well tomorrow.  I had a very encouraging input from Mckenzie on one of them too and when I receive such it shows me that others get an uplifting as well.

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    SirDentposted 15 years ago

    Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
    
    I love this scripture because it says, "Whosoever will, let him come." This includes everyone.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Double AMEN to that, SirDent!

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    aoiffe379posted 15 years ago

    I have quite a few but I will use the one found on a calendar for the day and year I was born.It is Psalm 81:10.In that text, I hear God saying to me that He is my Deliverer from bondage. I do not need to be a slave to sin or negative habits. When God tells me to open my mouth wide,I recognize it as a call to sing praises to Him and to pray constantly. Lately, God has been using me to share His Word as a teacher. Before my sister gave me the calendar with this text, I used to say that I did not know what to say and was like Moses. God must have laughed at my excuses.After I read and studied the text,I realize that God will tell me what to say- give me a mouth and wisdom my enemies cannot gainsay nor resist.Nowadays,I am thrilled to open my mouth and let God fill it.God is both awesome and amazing!

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    SL Perrin,
    
    I did go read your hub on John.
    Good deal!

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I would rather there be no leader.
    I'd prefer we all feel equally free to start a topic or continue a topic, etc., or pop in for prayer requests or whatever.     It can make for some very lively discussion as well as getting to know each other as Christians.
    I'm just glad there are some people interested!

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    zampanoposted 15 years ago

    Quite interesting
    Song of Solomon 1:4
    Take me to you, and we will go after you: the king has taken me into his house. We will be glad and full of joy in you, we will give more thought to your love than to wine: rightly are they your lovers.
    
    This is not cheap provocation. It's a reminder.

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    TLMinutposted 15 years ago

    zampano, reminder of what?

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, feel free to elaborate, Zampano.
       If you have questions, maybe I or someone else can answer or attempt to answer.

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       zampanoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       That the scriptures are also made of honey and milk, wine and love.
       Each one of us remembers best what is kept by affinity.
       I don't hear much quotations of Solomon's words.
       This is the sense of the recall.

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I like that reminder! Amen to it.

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    SL Perrinposted 15 years ago

    Brenda thank you for your note of encouragement.  The other hubs are of similar methods using Scripture and life as known then and now.  I wish all would take the time to venture into the pieces written.  Encouraging notes are nice to see, but keep in mind the Lord has shown me how to relate life's issues to Scripture.  I have few, but those few are worth the look.
    
    How often do you folks as Christians read the Bible?  When you do read it do you question any part of it as to how can or does that apply to today's issues, or even to yourself?

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    SL Perrin,
    
    I admit I don't read the Bible as often as I probably should.   I grew up in church and hearing the Word, and am often searching the Scriptures, but I'm sure I could be more faithful about that.
    
    I'd say most Christians apply the Word to their lives on a continuous basis, wouldn't you?

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Hi,
      I try to read daily, yet I know I could do better. I appreciate the history within the Bible, but there isn't a whole lot that I can do about the past. So I try to focus on learning how I can be a better person today and tomarrow.
    Song of Solomon...I usually read with my husband:) Holly

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    SL Perrinposted 15 years ago

    I thank the friends who answered the amount of time reading question and doing so very  honestly.  That is hard for some to do even if they are claiming being Christian, maybe because they don't others to know just how little they do read.  Personnally I read every day, but I will admit I have particular books of the 66 I delve into more tham others.  I guess I want to study them more; yet I know I need to study all of the 66.
      Of the 66 I really enjoy John, Hebrews,Jude, Rev. for the NT the OT would be Sam, Esther, Ruth, Jer.  I suppose I will eventually get to the others in greater depth.

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Hi,
      Just thought I would pop in and let you know I was reading in Job today. We are moving from a very big house (3500 sq ft, 5 car garage), to a small 2 bedroom of about 950 sq ft. I am looking forward to it much more than my hubby. So we read in Job hoping he would have more peace about the move.
      God is good and showed hubby what he needed for peace Holly
    
    Hope all are having a good day

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       SL Perrinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Holly, how is Job helping you and hubby with this transition?  I don't doubt the help I am wondering how it has affected and effected the choice and action?

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          h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Hope this isn't too long or boring....
          
          Hubby and I married in Dec of 2006
          I was diagnosed with advanced cancer 6 weeks later in 1/07.
          I had surgeries 1/07,2/07 3/07, 4/07 then started chemo 4/07  through Sep '07,more surgery later in the year, too.
          By 12/07 they found bone mets and put me on palliative care.
          I lost my $75,000 a yr job.
          Then his ex moved his kids clear across the country.
          The housing market fell and we have been carrying 2 houses and 2 mortgages.
          More happened but you get the idea - He feels like Job.
          
          The lost income and high costs of my medical care have put us in a rough spot that we need to sell his big house and live in my little house. Also, my Mom is across the street and can help me on the really bad days. And the bad days will get worse. He is not liking whathas happened and asks why.
          
          Reading Job has helped hubby see his blessings. Yes his kids are 2,000 miles away - but they are healthy. Yes, the economy is bad - but he has work. Our marriage is good and built on the right values. and more
          
          Does that help? God Bless, Holly

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             SL Perrinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Thank you very much for the verbal diagram of your family points and that of Job.  Reading and really trying to understand Job will put many things into perspective than just seeing comparisons.  One thing to remember with Job, Satin came in uninvited and stayed until it was founded Job was on solid ground with God and no other.

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    TLMinutposted 15 years ago

    All day I've been trying to decide what verse is my favorite but it isn't working like that. Instead I just keep singing (mentally only - I wouldn't treat my family so badly that I'd sing out loud!) part of a song by Kutless:
    
    I hunger and thirst for your righteousness
    but it's only found one place
    Take me in to the holy of holies...
    
    God just keeps surprising me.

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       SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I love this song. We play it in our worship services quite often along with a lot of Third Day songs, Crabb Family songs, Chris Tomblin songs, etc. . .

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Like others here, I love that song too;  it's so moving;  I cry every time I hear it or sing it in church congregation.
       
       
       Hey, do you or anyone care to discuss what the "holy of holies" was/is (pre-Christ and post-Christ) and if we can actually enter in there today,  or do we have to wait til we get to Heaven?

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          aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I believe the 'Holy of Holy's' was the inner part of the temple, Gods Holy place, which ONLY the High Priest could enter, and then he had a bell and cord tied to him, so that IF God was angry with the Israelites and refused the sin offering, killing the High priest, they could drag his body out.
          
          This chamber had a 4 inch thick curtain shielding those outside from the radiance of the Ark (which was stored there)
          
          It's covered in Leviticus 16:
          
          The Day of Atonement
          
          1 Now the LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered profane fire before the LORD, and died; 2 and the LORD said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.
          
          (continued: for a full understanding read the book)
          
          This is the veil (curtain) that was torn asunder (ripped apart) when our Lord was crucified, and signalled the end of the yearly atonement required until that time.
          
          Since then we have had Christ as our sacrifice, a once only sacrifice made for all humanity.
          
          What a wonderful Saviour we have!
          
          My favourite scriptures are:
          
          Psalm 91....
          
          He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
          
          I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust.”
          
          Ephesians 6 12:20
          
          For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
          
          Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
          
          And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints - and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
          
          This is a blessed topic and peaceful, I than the Lord for that and hope we can continue to meet daily?

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    SirDentposted 15 years ago

    Jer 17:7  Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
    
    Psa 133:1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    God willing I will be here. Holly

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    aguasilver,
    Thanks! I agree with your interpretation.

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    aguasilverposted 15 years ago

    I must away to bed, my son returns to New York tomorrow until July, working with Metro Ministries in Brooklyn (he's in Coney Island) so we must get him to the airport in 8 hours time!
    
    I'll miss him tons!
    
    See you tomorrow (its' 1.50am here in Spain!)

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I pray for traveling mercies for him!
    
    Be Blessed; good night!

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    SirDentposted 15 years ago

    Psa 150:6  Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

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    SL Perrinposted 15 years ago

    Do any of you remember the riots of our times and how much it meant to the people then.  Did any of them initiate the riot for the correct reason, and are there still followers of such, or was it all political insights?  I know of one that initiated his own riot and to this day still has followers from that cause.
    
    (R) righteous
    (I) indignation
    (O) of
    (T) truth
    
      initiated by GOD

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Well, there've been riots about different things from people  protesting the Vietnam War to people protesting racial discrimination to people protesting against gays wanting their "rights" to gays protesting for their special "rights". 
    
    Most are political.  And some, like the latter, are incorrect and have no moral validity.
    
    I'll try to discuss more of this later,  but am hoping other Christians will give more input because it's a subject I've not ever really delved into much!
    
    I love your R I O T listing there!
    Amen!  Whatever God initiates is a good thing!

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       SL Perrinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       This view of riot I gave to a congregation at one sermon and spoke to the young about their rebellious ways they may show to mom, dad, school teachers or who ever.  But I wanted them to see they need to follow a true leader that has provided a meaning to have the riot.  All other uprisings are short lived, God's uprising is forever going.

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    WriteAngledposted 15 years ago

    First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out.
    
    Pastor Martin Niemöller, initially supported Hitler then founded the Confessing Church with Dietrich Boenhoffer to oppose Nazi influence and was subsequently interred at Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    WriteAngled,
    that makes me think of something....
    
    
    They're coming for us,  and when Christians speak out, many (even other Christians) say we're not supposed to be involved in politics. (To which I've said and still say phooey).

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I see.  Cool!  And Amen!

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I'm asking for prayers from any and all Christians who're willing----
    
    Not an emergency or anything, just pray for strength and wisdom for me as well as my Mom and rest of family.  We're moving her from out-of-State in with me and my husband since she's in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's and needs to not be so isolated as she is now.   My brother has done an awesome job for years of helping her and taking care of the things she can't do on her own,  but he has a job and commitments he has to see to,  and with her poor health both physically and mentally,  this is the best alternative we can think of;  we don't want her to go to a nursing home unless all other options are considered.
    
    I'm really looking forward to spending time with her, and she is also looking forward to the move!   But we all know it could get tough.
    She's a wonderful Christian woman with awesome Faith.
    
    Thanks so much!

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       Joy56posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       this is a long time ago, how is your mum.....

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          Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Joy56,
          This had gotten lost in the middle of a discussion I guess.
          Thank you for asking.   She's in later stages of Alzheimer's it seems, according to her behavior and abilities.....
          Her mind isn't good, but her soul is intact and safe in the hands of God.  That much I believe sincerely. 

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Something I've often pondered on---
    
    
    What was Job's sin?  Or did he sin?
    I asked a Pastor that once, and he said Job never sinned.
    What do you think, and why?
    
    
    Chapter 1 verse 1 says he was "perfect and upright,..."
    
    Yet in Chapter 42 verse 6, he says "I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
    
    What happened between Chapter 1 and Chapter 42?  I know a LOT of things happened! ha.  But did Job sin during that time?
    
    Or was his statement to God about repenting simply a renewed understanding of God's sovreignty?
    
    
    Second issue is----how do you interpret 42: 12 where it says the Lord blessed Job's latter days more than his beginning, as that may pertain to his children (who had all been killed)?
    It seems to say that children are replaceable with other children....?   Or does verse 13 qualify that?
    
    
    Just interested in hearing others' opinions....
    
    I may be a bit scarce for a while, but will try to check back sometime soon to see if anyone responds.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       if i may.
       
       job was found righteous in His eyes.
       as a result, darkness/lucifer, tested jobs' character, his perspective of the image.
       
       much happened indeed.
       he was tested in all areas, even to the point of death, but was kept from it.
       
       jobs' image of himself was much different than the Creators.
       as such, the troubles came upon him.
       :: that which i have considered/pondered/fretted over/feared in my heart have come upon me ::
       job lost everything, his kids, wife, house, you name it.
       
       when it was all over -meaning job 'got it' -he realized that the image of who he was to be was that image he was created to be.
       hence the fullness came upon him and he had 10 times more than what he started with.
       proving the Creators desire to give freely to all who follow His ways -His vision - His image of who we are in Him.
       
       job never actually sinned in that he never denounced his belief in the Creator, but he also was an example that the Creator is
       1. not a respecter of persons
       2. gives to those who 'see themselves as He sees them'.
       
       remember, job lived BEFORE -long before the Law. Same as Enoch. so he could not be judged by the law but by righteousness, which is of faith.
       
       
       

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       Joy56posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       my take on this scripture is that god saw Job was a faithful man.  Satan challenged god in saying he only served him because of all things he had.   He then took all his children, livestock, became ill, his wife turned aginst him, still he did not denounce god.  God won out ........  He was indeed a faithful, i would certainly not like to lose my children, even if i did get more........

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Twenty One Days,
    I appreciate your post!
    I'm still thinking on it, but you've helped a lot.
    I sometimes wonder if I "see myself" as God sees me (which is righteous simply because I've accepted His Son), because I know I could do better, and I do "fret over" things lotsa times....

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Brenda,
       
       my pleasure.
       
       again, i stress this point: we are ALL the image of G-d/Creator.
       This is the fundamental teaching of Christ -his day to day life, his death, resurrection & ascension. his most powerful statement to us: as I Am, so are YOU in this world.
       
       We often forget we should be the exact, perfect and genuine manifestation of the image He wants us to be. Y`shua explained it to us for 3 1/2 years. Even when He rose again, reminded us of who we are.
       
       as He is so we are. not so we should be or are supposed to be, etc. He sees us as perfect. We need to see ourselves this way, no less. Anything less is a deception, a lie, a half-truth, ya know?
       
       
       
       (man if i could teach people this, how different things would be for them and the world)

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    ...I'm not sure my exact response to that...
    
    He did say "be ye perfect"...and since we're redeemed and forgiven, we're blameless for our past sins.
    We do still sin sometimes, though, and have to repent.  And we have to keep striving for "the mark" which I consider ultimate salvation.  (You see, I believe we can give up our salvation if we willingly sin, refuse to repent, and deny Christ).
    
    So, I'll tell you this---I myself am far from perfect!  The only perfection there is, is in Christ.  I can say, however, yes, that if I remain in His grace it makes me "perfect in Him" so that I am a child of His, a daughter, if you will, of God.
    
    So I guess I'm not understanding what you mean by "anything less is a deception"...
    
    
    ...I know a Pastor who once said we could "be equal to God" because he interpreted a certain Philippians passage to say that.  You probably know the passage I'm referring to.
    
    Please tell me you don't think like that?!  Because that Pastor was deceived.   There has never been a man who walked this earth who was perfect except Jesus Christ.  The Bible says all have sinned and come short of God's glory.
    
    I plan to keep striving for the mark.  I hope to be perfect someday, but that'll have to wait til I die and go to Heaven...

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    TLMinutposted 15 years ago

    The Bible gives several references to people who were 'perfect in all their ways before the LORD'. Noah (didn't stay that way), Asa, Job...

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    Brenda, I mean no offense and apologize if i have offended you.
    
    What I was explaining, was a rather powerful truth, often overlooked, sidestepped or mentioned little, about us being made in His image/likeness.
    
    One of the key points is that Jesus himself made many statements regarding:
    
    1. he called us brothers/sisters not servants.
    2. We and He serve the Father
    3. He taught the apostles these truths about faith and so many examples of the KoH/KoG for us to live -not just live by (or as my old pastor used to say: in the by-and-by ).
    
    We can never be 'equal' with the Father, that would be just crazy to think that. But we are to be the 'fullness of Him who fills all in all'.
    
    That little measure of faith should become a mountain of trees bearing all kinds of good fruit. Each one of us has this gift, this seed, this ability -so long as we live in unity with the Father.
    
    Yes, the statement is true -all have sinned (past tense) but now we are new creatures in Him. All sin was paid for past, present, future. Wherefore, everything of old has been fulfilled, everything has become new. It is very inspiring and gives us an altogether new perspective of our place with Him.
    
    What most modern believers are taught is that they have to 'work' to be made perfect. But it is the same thing as saying we need to 'work' to become saved -which we know is impossible. Hence why Jesus came. So the idea that we should 'see ourselves perfect' is true. The Word says that however a person sees themselves is how they will be (parable of the mirror).
    I think it is awesome to say that He sees us perfect!
    And awesome to believe we are perfect.
    It is all a matter of our perspective/mirror reflection.
    
    

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    sidebar note:
    
    the Luficer v. Adam/Eve story shows us this truth.
    In that Adam/Eve were tricked into thinking they were something or should be something other than what God made them to be.
    It was a sly trick.
    
    
    much love.

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    TLMinutposted 15 years ago

    My favorite Bible verse was Micah 6:8 for a very long time. But then I AM showed me something and now I completely love the first part of Acts 17:28.
    
    In him we live and move and have our being;
    
    I had never known how EVERYTHING God is. All-encompassing, immense, more than I have words to convey, perhaps more than any words exist for.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Amen TLMinut; I love that passage also.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Twenty One Days,
    Thank you for this discussion!
    I love to discuss and/or debate (lively but friendly debate) about Biblical interpretations.
    
    No you didn't offend me!  Sorry if I said anything to make you think that.
    
    I want to ask if your interpretaions have anything to do with the views of Calvin?
    
    But only if you want to share/discuss.
    
    I'm just trying to understand how you think as compared to myself.   We might not be on "the same page" but it looks like we're in the same "Book".  ha.  So that's a good thing!

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Bumping just for the heaven of it.
    

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    SirDentposted 15 years ago

    2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    
    2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Amen.

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    megs78posted 15 years ago

    "He who is without sin; cast the first stone."
    
    Hi Brenda, I can't remember what verse that is, but I always found this to be comforting scripture as I was growing up.  I was around many judgemental people all my young life and was always feeling so sinful and bad until I came across that verse.  It was just so freeing to hear those words.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Hi megs78.
    
    It's John 8: 7.
    
    Lotta room for discussion on that verse, and the surrounding ones.
    
    I'm glad it means something to you.
    
    I think it has an opposite meaning for me;  it always reminded me of my own sins and made me, like the prostitute, stay and beg Christ for His forgiveness....

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I must add.....
       
       
       and to "Go, and sin no more."
       
       
       Megs78, thanks for sharing;  I hope you'll elaborate and post more anytime;  this thread gets kinda slow, since most Christian and other religious discussions are already covered extensively in many threads around here;  but I like this 'cause it's specifically titled about Christianity.

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          megs78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hey Brenda, I think that I found that scripture freeing because it meant that people didn't have the right to judge me.  Only God has the right.  It didn't give me a golden ticket to do whatever I wanted.  I didn't see it that way.  I always knew that sin was something that I couldn't escape, I just didn't want to be judged by others (by 'others', I mean the Baptist Church I grew up in) for everything I did wrong.  And I am talking about me at the age of 6.  Thats how old I was when I started to see the hypocrisy in my church.

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    Hokeyposted 15 years ago

    Are Buddhists allowed?
    
    
    Whether one believes in a religion or not,
    and whether one believes in rebirth or not,
    there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion.
    
    
    Dalai Lama

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Yes, of course anyone is allowed, as far as I'm concerned anyway.
    I agree that everyone appreciates kindness and compassion.
    
    ...I'm sure, though, that the belief in Christ will be strongly defended in this thread, and other beliefs challenged, if the occasion arises.
    
    Thanks for popping in.
    
    Hope you're having an awesome day!

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       Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks! Not looking for debate.

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    peptalkposted 15 years ago

    This is the friendliest, most polite Christian discussion group I've seen so far!  Great job guys.  It's so refreshing to see people talking about the small things in their faith and religious lives, the parts that bind us together, instead of arguing about what separates us.
    
    It's late here, and I've had a long day so my brain isn't working all that well anymore, but I may drop tomorrow to add something.

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    Hokeyposted 15 years ago

    Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle,
    and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared.
    
    
    Buddha

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       TLMinutposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Hokey, that's wonderful! AND it's what I was trying to remember, either that or an example like it that I used to tell my boys when they were small. They would worry that loving me meant they couldn't love their dad, or if I loved one of them, what about the others? Now my grandbabies are going through that confusion (an age thing?) and I couldn't think of anything that multiplies with use. This is one.

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