Christian Discussion

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   Cagsilposted 15 years ago

   Hey Brenda, you must be reading only what you want to read. Considering there happens to be huge contradictions from NT and OT? And, many hundreds of believer know that to be truth. If you do not see them, it is not because you know the truth, it is because you absorb what you want and ignore the rest by choice.

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   ediggityposted 15 years ago

   Matthew
   {16:23} But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
   
   Even the chosen need a reminder.

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3. 59

   Jeramiposted 15 years ago

   Good to see ya 
     It is also written that the scriptures are not of "private interpretation." They must be rightly divided,
   
      I agree with this part as stated above.
   I however have a diffrent understand of the meaning of "Rightly divided" 
      I think that this means that the spirit will guide us to the information but we must rightly divide and analize the proper order in which they are to be understood; the scripture  presented before us.  Does scripture say any place that the holy spirit will interpret it for us?
        
   
     I could be wrong but that just makes sence to me.

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Joh 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
      
      Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
      
      There is a very good reason why the Holy Ghost is called the Spirit of truth. These are Jesus' own Words also.

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      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I do not intend to be confrontational but merely inquisitive when I ask this.
         
            
            And is it possible that Jesus might have promised a little bit more to his disciples than he did the rest of us.
            I think that sometimes Jesus was speaking privately with the disciples promising promises for them only.
            
         
            Does the holy spirit teach everyone the same things.
         I don't think so or there would be more agreement among Christians diffrent denominations.
         
             The spirit can show me a truth
             The spirit can  show you another truth.
         Some where along the lines I think that we have to do our own "Rightfully dividing"   Just a thought.

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            SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            God is not a respecter of persons. He doesn;t esteem one higher than an other. Paul wrote also, "We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God." This means all need a savior and there is only one savior.
            
            The Holy Ghost only teaches truth. There is only one truth. He may reveal something to you that He will not reveal to me, but this isn't what divides people. People are divided because of their own lusts. 
            
            
            When left to our own devices we fail. God knows we cannot do things right. This is the whole reasdon we need Jesus in the first place.

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               Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               God is not a respector of persons... I agree
                  As I have said on numerious ocasions.I can't remember chapter and verses very well.
                
                 If I remember correctly God said this on diffrent ocasions in the OT.  And yet he did send his Messenger Angel to Daniel and Ezeliel etc and not to everyone.
               
                 To each is given a diffrent gift of the spirit. I don't remember them all now but to Some the gift of prophesy others tongs, to others interpretation and so on.
               
                 He is not a respector of persons any yet he gives to each diffrently???

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                  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  I know how to do sign languge so I am able to carry a conversation with a deaf person if the person has been trained to use sign. Not everyone can do this.
                  
                  God speaks to all who will listen to Him. Not all will listen or even want to hear.
                  
                  I am a bass player for our praise and worship group. We have a drummer, a lead guitar player, a keyboard player and four singers who only sing. I cannot play the lead guitar, but I can play the bass guitar.
                  
                  In the end, God gives to whom He will. He said, "I will give mercy to whom I will give it." (paraphrased)
                  
                  The Holy Ghost cannot contradict the Word of God.

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   SirDentposted 15 years ago

   Been a good discussion Jerami, but it is late and I am headed to bed. Will continue in the AM before I take off.

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5. 59

   Jeramiposted 15 years ago

   I like to think that I am examining both sides of a single coin when having this kind of discussion.
      I just can't get over the feeling that sometimes Jesus was saying things that was intended for their ears only.
      And sometimes he was speaking to the whole crowd.
      I can honestly say that I think that the spirit has lead me to many of the conclusions that I now hold.
   
      I was lead to many verses that I then had to examine what I thought it meant and use discernment as to what else it might be saying.
       I think that asking for understanding  is kinda like asking for patience,  He is not going to wave a magic wand and shazzam I got it patience.  He rubs it in very slowly and for a long time.
   That way he knows it is going to stick on ya.
   
      Understanding is kinda the same.  Ya gotta work for it so you can understand better and deeper.
     Or something like that

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   Part of understanding is, at times, actually realizing that we're not going to understand everything.  Isn't that where Faith comes in again?   I think so!   I know it's good to search the Scriptures and do our best to interpret it all, but when it comes right down to it, there are still things we may never know while we live, or maybe even after.   Because we're not God, and never will be.   The Bible is about God/Christ!  It's about us and our relation to Him, but it's definitely not all about us. 
   
   Even our Spiritual knowledge is limited, and rightly so.  If John, who was close to Jesus, mis-took an angel for the Lord (twice!) in his vision, who are we to think we know everything?
   Those passages are some of my favorites, not because John erred without the angel's admonishment, but because they warned us to never worship anyone but God/Christ and it humanized John just as we're all human, showing his dependence on God.
   
   We're told to always be ready to give an answer, but it's an answer of the hope that's in us, not necessarily an interpretation of every passage every time.   Sometimes it's good to just say we don't know.   That, of course, will get demeaned by sinners and sometimes by other Believers, but in fact it's a product of Faith; it shows our dependence on God, who is knowable in the personage of Christ, but who always has been and remains totally Sovreign and omnipotent, many of His works above anything we can even imagine.
   
   It's when our thirst for knowledge overtakes our humble Faith in Him that we're in trouble.   Mainly because salvation itself is the main goal,  and salvation requires no expanded knowledge of Scripture;  it simply requires a heart open to the call of the Spirit.

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7. 68

   ceciliabeltranposted 15 years ago

   I like
   "I am the way the truth and the life" I think it's brilliant.
   
   Self, Path, Truth, Life. Head, heart, reproductive area, feet.
   
   love self, love the journey, love the truth, love life.
   
   this statement's meaning can go on and on.
   
   
   it's about how humans mature in various levels of experience.
   physically you are born head first and feet last. spiritually you value self first when you're young and when you grow up, you learn to value all life.
   Mentally, all knowledge should begin from self-knowledge to create path, truths and then seeing all that knowledge come to life.
   
   love that saying.

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8. 59

   Jeramiposted 15 years ago

   Brenda Durham said   Part of understanding is, at times, actually realizing that we're not going to understand everything.
   
   Jerami said   Absolutely,,  And I've come to realize that god may not want everyone to know the same things,  This should cause us to need each other even more than we otherwise would.
   
     It is written that God will not lay a burden on us that we can not carry. And complete understanding would be a bigger burden than anyone can carry.

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      This is a good statement. Believers are supposed to make up the body of Christ. The hands cannot do what the feet do, as the legs cannot do what the arms do. One thing in common is that all need the head to function. Jesus is the head.
      
      It is true that God will not burden us with more than we can bare. It seems much of the time men put on us enough to break our backs. Moses asked to see God's glory. God said, "I will show you my hinder parts." This means everything that was behind at the time. This is how the first books of the Bible came about.

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         ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         what is actually means is, Moses will see what it does but not what it is...very very profound.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry; I wasn't trying to change the subject;  it's a cool discussion!
            Carry on.  Maybe later someone will have some input into the millinial issue.

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      2. 59

         Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         And the right hand should not know what the left is doing.
         
           It is taught that at the end of days, "people will run to and fro and knowledge will increase".
           I don't think that this is talking about worldly knowledge.
         such as what the computer age has brought forth, but of the revealing of gods plan kind of knowledge.
            When this knowledge is first revealed it will not be accepted by many cause it will not all fit within previously held boundaries of understanding. 
         At least I think so. 
           When that new knowledge comes forth we should be ready to properly divide it with discernment and the help of the holy spirit.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Does that mean you think there's some "new" prophecy in addition to what the Bible shows us?  Or just some greater understanding of what's already in Scripture?   (You probably know that I think any "new" prophecy is impossible because all prophecy will be simply a confirmation of Scripture's over-all prophecy).....

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               Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               It is just my opinion but I think that you are absolutely correct.
                 I think that the new knowledge will be revealed when the revoval of the seal that Daniel was told to put on that prophesy that was given in Daniel 12:4 is opened

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               1. 68

                  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  well there is such a thing as the Bible Code. I read it, it was really really bizarre! I have two books on the subject matter, there really is a code in the Talmud.
                  
                  also, all the codes formed a kind of galactic spiral, it was super super weird!

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                     Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     From what little I know about .. it seems plausable and not contradictory with my understand of scripture.
                     
                       Just got ready to go to work; maybe make a dollar or two.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay, I'll have to re-read Daniel sometime.....you've mentioned it several times.   But for right now I'm gonna say "I DON'T KNOW"!  haha

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                     Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     For now I gotta go do something more productive toward my survival. 
                        
                     I do believe that a new knowledge will be revealed when Daniel is properly understood.
                     
                        Until now it seems as though the wisdom clearly stated in this book has been overlooked (sealed).
                       Or I should say hidden with tons of Interpretations.
                     
                       To simply read this book and understand it analytically rather than seeing it as a parable that needs to be interpreted there is much revealed.
                        Focus on the prophetic chapters instead of being distracted by the interesting stories about the furnace and such.
                     Chapters 2, and 7-12. 
                       10 and 11 are difficult to analyze but we can see these as yet another description of things that take place from the time of Cyrus until the 14 emperor of the fourth kingdom comes to his end.

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                        Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        I may try.  But I'd rather just order the episode from Jack Van Impe!  lol and
                        
                        Analytically instead of parable interpretation??.....
                        
                        I have problems analyzing anything, especially Scripture, without focusing on the spirit/Spirit behind it......

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            SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            You may be right about this, but what I see from it is this. Scientific knowledge has increased by leaps and bounds over the last few decades. Just over 100 years ago the Wright brothers flew the first plane, automobiles were first invented not long before that.
            
            As knowledge increases, more and more people slip away from God. We do not depend upon God like people used to because things are so easy these days.

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               ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I wouldn't worry about that. science is a good thing.

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                  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I am not worried about it but science is not always good.

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                     ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     science is just a product of people. like religion is. its only as good as the people using them.

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                        (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Not true. The scientific method will always be a good method of understanding how things work, despite the people using it.
                        
                        Religion will never be any good for anything, no matter who uses it.

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                           ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           did you use the scientific method to come up with that conclusion? i think not.

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                              Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              The scientific method is also ritual system, based on the human condition of necessity. No different than the sensationalists, apart from the steps taken.
                              
                              Neither side, equation or sensation, can absolutely prove anything using these applications, because they are always subjects of the human perception of the applied or dismissed condition.
                              Oddly, if any/all were absolute proofs, we would not need to proves them. HA!
                              
                              They are inquisitive and fascinating or warm and fuzzy, but definitely not absolute facts or infallible proofs. They are accepted terms and assumptions based on either method.
                              
                              Science is its own religion. A lot of scientists are in denial, just like the sensationalists. It is the NTK at work. The ever constant need to know, to balance to understand, to be superior or inferior.

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                                 (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 Would you please take the time to understand the scientific method, first. Thanks.

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                                    ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    i understand it and use it...you associate with it like it's a popular kid.
                                    
                                    motherhood statements like you just did is unscientific.

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                                       (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                       Woo-wooism is not the same thing, sorry.

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                                          ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                          and that's why you're not a real scientist...

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                                             ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                             line up in the looong cue to get in the party, Q. It takes lateral thinking to come up with superstrings my dear...or fractals....or general theory of relativity. It also takes some philosophical understanding of what the equations imply.

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                                                (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                                Sorry, but a Woo-woo party can be dangerous, what with all the Woo-woo's running around just frantically waving their arms.

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                                    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    How cute, a scientist using sensationalism as a defense mechanic.
                                    When one method falters, load the weight the other side to balance the equation.

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                                 ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 I know what you mean, I was just pointing out the irony of his statement.

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                              (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes, I know.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I agree.
               People forget how God handled the Tower of Babel event;  they leave their "first Love" (the Lord) and find new ways to try to reach Heaven without His help.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

   Amen.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I do have a question on an issue that's controversial and has bugged me for a while now.
    
    Does anyone know how long the concept of a literal "millinial" Kingdom on earth has been around in religion including Christianity?
    
    I'm not asking necessarily if you're "amillinialist" or "post-millinialist" or any of those;  just asking if you believe the idea originally comes directly from the Bible or if it originated from the Jehovah's Witnesses opinions......(that's the first I'd ever heard of it, was from their religion)....

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       Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Morning Brenda  Revelation 20 is the only sourse that I am aware of.  This needs to be read very carefully, and see that those that are seen in heaven have been killed  ..  and they reign with Christ, not the other way around.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       the kingdom is not a kingdom but a "reign". the other site that I participate in that are into this (mostly rabbis, decoding the thing) the reign of the G-dhead.
       
       and they say its now. it started already.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       one of the most overlooked points in that passage:
       
       it never states WHERE that reign takes place, merely that they reigned with Him. Also noted is the passage states they came alive -not all, but some-
       
       

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          ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          "Reign"
          
          will reign on earth,meaning take over. there is no place. it is a conceptual reign. what this means in mythological speak, is empowerment and altruism will reign. the reign of G-d in Judaism is the time of the Mosiach, the time of World to Come. meaning next world, the next phase.

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             Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             yuppers.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Thanks.  I actually agree with  ceciliabeltran and Jerami on those posts.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       its a cool thought that we're ready to see a new layer of understanding previously hidden by our own ignorance.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 15 years ago

    read the bible code. its the coolest thing to ever.

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       Michael Adams1959posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       The bible code may be good I have heard of it but never read it so I won't offer any opinion over it.     Advancing the Watch is a very good book explaining most all the questions on this long posting. It explains the book of Daniel in a very detailed way.

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          ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Well, the Bible code is not a subjective interpretation, it's mathematical. So it is a different sort of trip. But will take note of that Daniel thing

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Twenty One Days ...one of the most overlooked points in that passage:
    
    it never states WHERE that reign takes place, merely that they reigned with Him. Also noted is the passage states they came alive -not all, but some-
    =====================================
       Jerami thinks ....
    All of these visions take place after John was caught up into heaven and this is where John sees those that were beheaded for their testimony. And those that did not take the mark of the beast.  I think at this time "(14:13) all of those that die in the Lord henceforth rests from their labors and their works do follow them". They live in heaven after their body dies.
      And after the 1000 years Satan is loosed.
      And the Kings of the world gather their armies together for the last battle. 
      I think that we are watching them being gathered to the battle of Armageddon as we speak
     
      Which would mean that the first resurrection happened over a 1000 years ago.

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       Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       In the last 11 months we have stumbled upon this subject and chapter on numerious ocasions.
        
          And as soon as we discover what it actually says;  Every one gets quiet and forgets that we ever stumbled upon it.
       
         When we read what this chapter actually says, our belief system is suddenly threatened. We put it out of our mind as if it no longer exists.
       
         I do not think that the holy ghost is leading us to do that.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 15 years ago

    Are religious people happy, this study says yes:
    
    http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/happy.htm
    
    and that is using the scientific method...by mr. PhD, also a Nielsen, name known for research.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I know what a wog is, but not sure what an arm-waving "woo woo" is.....haha

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       (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Here's an explanation to the Woo-woo's...
       
       http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/woowoocredo.htm
       
       They wave their arms around in order to get attention to their woo-woo ideas.

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I won't follow that link, Q.
          It has the term "rat" in it.  I'm leery of rats; and I followed a link once that shut down my computer...
          
          I only know I'm a "whosoever", no longer a "wog".  Maybe a woo woo does wave his/her/its arms?   I admit I wave the American flag, and I admit I wave the Bible around (praise the Lord!) but I'm happy to remain only a whosoever.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I know what you two are saying, but the Christian sees it not as a conceptual reign, nor even just a symbolic reign,  but a Spiritual reign!   For the Spirit is the ultimate reality.....God is the ultimate reality, and His people will one day be with Him truly in Spirit and Truth.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       it is? the passage states: some came to life, not all, until after the thousand years had finished. Sounds quite physical & spiritual.
       
       why always the "one day" things with believers. That still irks me.
       Why is everything always afar off. last i read, we have been -past tense- given all things. Just wondering...

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Because we have not "attained"!  Even Paul says he had not attained to the final {salvation}.   That only happens after we're dead.  I'm not dead yet.  Neither are you.   We've only attained to a certain amount of knowledge/understanding.
          
          
          Edit that to say "as we die".......
          Death is the end of choice and ability to attain anything.

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             Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             dead? there is nothing to suggest that anywhere in Y`shua teachings or post-resurrection. why is it an accepted policy?
             
             that would say that Enoch/Elijah etc do not have full salvation, correct? If yes, then that makes Him partial, no?

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                Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I don't know for sure, but I believe one can safely assume that Enoch and Elijah were, yes, "saved".
                
                ....I once heard a preacher (that I had formerly respected much) say that if the rebellion in Heaven amongst the angels happened once, it could happen again!   That's not the way God gives us hope of eternal life!  So, the man was wrong IMO.   Our security will be set, fixed, eternal, the day we die.
                
                Just because Elijah and Enoch were "translated" doesn't mean they didn't die physically!  Tell me, what ELSE could it mean to be "translated"?   I'd say it means to be changed from a physical being to a spiritual one, wouldn't you?   They didn't "see death" because their transformation happened instantly....
                Doesn't that make sense?

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                   Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/32501?p … ost1007890

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             Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             death to consciousness is the end of choice -INDEED!
             
             but physical dead serves no purpose, in regard to it.
             we CAN become dead to choice, by superseding it, being swallowed up by grace/free will.
             
             edit: this is the translation, transcending, blink of an eye, transformation -as the present resurrected Savior...
             
             This is what people have been missing from Genesis to Rev.
             This IS salvation. A totality of unity -body, brain & spirit- less necessity/choice with Him.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I was making my post as you posted yours....
    
    reading it....aren't we saying the same thing?

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Okay James.....
    
    ...I think you're....hopeful maybe that you as a physical person will be "translated" instead of dying a natural death?
    
    But how many people did/does that happen to?   Not many, right?     We're human, and most humans actually die a natural death, whether it's escalated by disease or old age, etc.
    
    "It is appointed unto man once to die, and after that the Judgement".....

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       They did not die it states.
       Now, look at Rev. It says some came to life w/ Yeshua at the resurrection and were witnessed many places. So, the purpose of him resurrecting and showing us what we are going to look like when we immerse ourselves fully in grace. No reason why we cannot, should not be able to. This is that measure of faith, producing the fruit of the spirit/kingdom of heaven. That seed is now in us, the word. So, all things are possible and do-able, now.
       
       IMO:
       1. most people have never considered it.
       2. have never really been taught it.
       
       Most are taught the 'appointed' thing and so, they accept it and die. There is NO earthly thing that should effect us nor any non earthly thing. These are the promises under the New Covenant. Also, based on those events and the Rev info, it would put a big damper on the Armageddon thing, yes?

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       that is the curse of the old covenant.
       we have a new -and much better- covenant, yes?

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Yes.  At least, we have a covenant that Spiritualized much of the old covenant.
          
          But still, we remain flesh and blood until we die.
          
          If God translated every Believer in the way you seem to mean, individually at times of His choosing, then why aren't people suddenly disappearing all over the world? And then what happens to the non-Believers?   Or are you saying you're believing in the "Left Behind" theory?

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             Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             no, the no person left behind theory is for the skeptics.
             we are flesh and blood, yes. But according to the new covenant so is Y`shua.
             
             I do believe any believer -actually all believers- should be transformed. This is their gift of grace, salvation. I am not concerned about non-believers seeing or not seeing. If they did -all the more reason they would believe or else they would be scared to death. (no pun intended).
             
             I believe the teachers of faith are not telling the whole truth.

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                Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Y'shua isn't still flesh and blood.  As another poster mentioned John 1: 1,  Jesus is God;  a manifestation of God Himself;  and what is God?----God is Spirit.

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                   Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Of course He is. He is the mirror image of the Father in bodily form -bodily, being fully complete, meaning encased -if you will- in spirit. Much of the Talmud explains this with regard to Adams appearance and that of angels. And why the angels were in awe of human beauty -because we were spiritual beings and physical beings combined. Just gorgeous.
                   
                   According to the NC, this was Y`shua resurrected.
                   Fully clothed in spirit, but physical. To the point of Thomas and others actually touching his body. This is the glorified stasis.
                   I fully support it.

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    Well, since we are talking about it, let me pose the following:
    
    1. Can you consider the possibility of being transformed now
    2. Can you consider escaping choice & living in free will.
    3. Would anyone want to die (omit any ailment).
    4. Can you consider the resurrection and anointing as evidence and proof that it is possible -because of His work/promise.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Choice IS free will...

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          Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          ps, choice is NOT free will.
          choice is needing to decide
          free will is living beyond the need to choose.
          
          

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             Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Drat it James!  haha
             
             ...If I ever hear that you've just up and disappeared, should I assume you were translated or should I file a missing persons report?
             
             Sorry I couldn't help making a joke.
             
             ...You're not alone in hoping for more Spiritual power to pervade the lives of Believers.   A pastor I know's been preaching how it would be good for Christians to be able to do as Peter did and the other disciples and heal people instantly, etc.
             
             And it would be nice.
             
             But indeed who do you think they'd idolize then?
             
             Would it be God, or would it be the worker of the miracles?
             
             Do you have the humility to handle that kind of Power?
             
             Do you even believe in Jesus as God?  I think you've said you don't.....?
             
             That Power isn't for non-Believers.   It isn't even for some Christians!   Our egos get in the way.  Our temptations get in the way.  We have enough trouble keeping ourselves in His will.   We can (some of us anyway) can only spread the message of His sacrifice, which we're all called to do.
             
             ...If I thought it was common-place for Christians to be able to weild those practical powers correctly, Benny Hinn wouldn't be making millions with his showmanship.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    James,
    being transformed (translated) means, in my understanding anyway, having our physical bodies discarded.  I believe Enoch and Elijah's bodies were discarded.  No flesh and blood enters Heaven.
    In our spirits, we ARE transformed the minute we accept Christ as Savior.  But we still retain our physical bodies, that housing for the Spirit.  We still retain our own consciousness and consciences, and along with that, freedom of choice but with knowledge of consequences.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       the term is glorified/transformed.
       it is a physical & spiritual transformation where the spirit becomes manifested in the body versus the present situation of body divided from spirit by the mind.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I believe part of the reason is so that we can carry out the commission given to us.  Spreading the word of God to those who currently have no hope of being translated like Elijah and Enoch.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    If you're not concerned about non-believers believing, then you're only concerned about yourself or others that you pick?   The Word tells us we're to Love everyone, even our enemies, just as He does, and therefore hope that their souls will one day be saved.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You are getting funnier Brenda. Love?

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          God Loves you Mark.
          So I'm commanded to Love you too.
          Because of that, I have no problem telling you about His Love which includes His judgement.
          Don't even try to pick a fight, please.  I had enough of your stuff when you posted a thinly-veiled threat on my life before.
          
          Bottom line is, God Loves you and wants you to make the right choice so that your soul doesn't perish.

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             Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I beg your pardon? A thinly veiled threat on your life? Dear me. I though bearing false witness was a sin? No? 
             
             Your god does not exist - and if it did - I am pretty sure you are not qualified to tell me what it wants.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       which has nothing to do with edification of the believing.
       if someone comes to Him, is it because of me? No.
       it is because of Him, some by faith, some by fear or some through signs/wonders.
       
       a valid point:
       
       We are commanded to go into the world and speak the good news.
       Never once are told to bring people to Him or to save them or to make them 'born again'. He did/does that, that is reserved for Him and what He did on the cross & grave. We are to live life more abundantly as TESTIMONY and Witness of that Truth. How many people do you think would truly be drawn to Him if believers actually did what they were told...

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    God can change hearts and minds and souls.
    He changed Saul into a man called Paul who preached the Word more fervently than he murdered Christians.
    He can do the same for you, Mark.  All it takes from you is a measure of Faith that's available freely for you to use as you decide, to either discard it or run with for His purposes.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Brenda - I have seen your "love" in action. People like you are what persuaded me your religion is utter garbage in the first place.
       
       Thanks. I appreciate it.

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          You're welcome.

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          Artin2010posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hello Mark Knowles,
          Still not convinced that the God of Israel is the One true God of all?
          Huuummm, a work in progress! Father God, touch this soul that he may know that innerpeace, that feeling of a love that will never dry up and go away. He is already living a purpose driven life and he wants to include you. Touch this soul that it might know the peace that is in knowing You.
          I respect your beliefs Mark and I would think that you an intellegent human being could respond to questions in these forums with some civil dignity. Not too much to ask. Peace be with you man!

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             paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Hi friend Artin2010
             
             He feels pride in it.
             
             Thanks

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                earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Which god? Out of the thousands of stupid fear based beliefs you religious guys fight over each day which one is the only true god?
                
                I good dose of logic may help.
                
                " I have the only true god"
                "No my god is the only true god" Your chances of having the only true god are easy enough to work out. How many gods are we talking about here?

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    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I'm an "eternal optimist" as I like to define it.
    I've heard of and I've seen people's lives changed by His power.
    I know a drunkard who changed into a man who preached the Gospel and brought many souls to the Lord.
    I've seen the power and Love in the eyes and actions of many Believers.
    I've seen grown men melt like butter under the power of God.
    
    With Him, anything is possible.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Galatians 4: 16:
    
    Paul said
    
    "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    exactly, Brenda, ANYTHING is possible to those who believe.
    
    three books I recommend:
    
    1. Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyer
    2. This Awakening Generation by the late John Osteen
    3. Destined to Reign & Between Two Kingdoms by Joseph Price

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Do you mean Joseph Prince?
       
       ..if so...I'm leery of his writings, 'cause he said in a sermon one day that grace is another person in the Trinity or some such nonsense, trying to personalize/feminize God's grace....
       
       And Joyce Meyer....
       I like some of her stuff, but she mistranslated the passage about calling things into existence that don't exist....
       
       Osteen....he waters down the Word way too much.  He's a motivational speaker who doesn't dare really preach the Word.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    But yes James I believe in miracles!  I didn't want you to think I don't.  I believe in the Power of God.  Yes, anything is possible.   But only when it glorifies the Lord.   I think that's why He doesn't give us direct miracle-working power sometimes, because it would lead us and others to depend on our own selves and not on Him.  And what are we without Him?  only dust.

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    wow, that is a lot of questions.
    1st, yes, He is The Word manifest.
    
    one thing this false humility propagates is half truth.
    The full measure of the things Peter or John did, is only the tip of what we SHOULD be doing. The works themselves, again are for the unbelieving. But it isn't about the miracles, its about being that new creation. Not some pseudo emotional hyped up Sunday sensationalism, about being a new creation.
    This is real faith that divides sensation seekers from the faithful in Him. What testimony can believers give or show -knowing the knowledge of the word- yet never acting on the fullness? None. They are clouds without water.
    The entire OT shows how people only acted on faith in part and the result was failure, death, sickness, curses, laws, fear.
    
    But a single seed has been given to everyone that can bring the real life into being. The point being- people keep in fear of puffing themselves up or some false sense of humility. "Oh, I don't want to become vane or am afraid of doing it for myself" is silly. You can't do anything without Him. Which He affirmed. But now that you can do EVERYTHING with Him, why don't they. If they are humble, then it is because they have submitted 100% to the Spirit and are a daily being transformed. There is no room to be proud in there, since they are uniting with Grace.
    
    So many believers have sat in the chair waiting for Him to do all the work for them, even to this day. My idea is for ALL believers to get off their lazy chairs and start living the Life, instead of talking about it or pushing paper on non-believers.
    
    Half a million people believed in one day by seeing a handful of the believers in action. They didn't go looking for non-believers, the non-believers came looking for them...

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       What half a million people went looking for who?
       
       You mean the Apostles?

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          Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          meaning, the believers didn't go house to house or what-have-you seeking out non-believers to convert; they lived the fullness and because of it, daily, thousands were being added to the fold. I suppose some of the apostles were there as well. To my knowledge, James and a few others immediately departed for parts unknown following the Jerusalem event.
          
          Now, imagine that same anointing, unchanging, ever faithful Truth, present in the every believer today -even more so, knowing the mistakes the others made. Imagine them fulfilling what Y`shua said -that this entire planet and spiritual things belong to them, have been given to them by the Father -through Grace. Think the world would be a little different?

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    as for Benny the Hinn, et al., he is a sorcerer in my book.
    If he truly had the Anointing, he would not be a resident of TBN.
    That goes for all believers.

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    Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago

    Isaiah 49:16
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

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    Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago

    Isaiah 43:19
    Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Good verses.  The Word is always good.

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    Brenda to me, it is passed the point of hope. Yes, hope doesn't disappoint us and I get that. Hope is for those weak of faith/in heart -for whatever reason.
    But now is the time of faith. Real faith that is going to shake the very foundation of the planet, remove all need, all economics, all power of disease and even death. Even if those things exist -which they do- around us, they won't effect us.
    
    People, just ordinary people, are waking up. They are realizing more and more they don't need to want, they don't need to die, be sick, be sad, be worried or be afraid. They know that no mechanism, no fancy language, no new age idea -of science or religion or skepticism is able. They only know one thing -they ARE already saved, powerful, blessed, free and able to do- because and with Him.
    
    It is joyful and sad at the same time. Why? Because the great war believers are looking forward to and waiting for isn't going to happen the way they think it is...
    
    ...got to run for a bit...

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    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Hmmm......I'll agree some are waking up, but not as you claim.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    James, I actually agree with you that (perhaps) that war isn't gonna happen the way that many think it will.
    
    As far as the other things......I only know that my hope is in the afterlife;  my reward is in Heaven, not necessarily here on earth.   The "reward" that I believe I have here is comfort in my spirit that I know I'm walking with Him, that Peace that passes all human understanding.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       i understand.
       just one last point:
       
       the Kingdom of Heaven is in you.
       all things are (already) yours pertaining to Eternal Life.
       now, lets bring out the fruit to be stored up & worthy of that kingdom.
       
       

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    ...it is already begun.
    from every single nation on earth, ordinary people are seeking true and genuine faith in Him. A knowledge that exceeds questions, exceeds necessity, choice and all those limitations.
    
    The Ism -all its parts- from preacher to practitioner, pharmacist to proselyte; self aware to self denying; psychologist to physicist- they are all sensing it. Scrambling desperately to make sense of it.
    
    Once the anointing touches, these ordinary people (and even some mentioned above) will make Jericho and every event written or passed down through the ages, look like a day at the beach. Not with weapons or damnation speeches, but by the very words from their mouths that will move the elements and show the glory of the Father once and for all; not settling for wanting to know or analyzing possibilities or questioning the kingdom within, but shining with glory greater than Adam, brighter than the face of Moses; just glistening on them like morning dew...

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth,  where moth and rust doth corrupt,  and where thieves break through and steal.
    But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,  where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt,  and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
    For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
    
    
    -Matthew 6: 19-21.-

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    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    ...the reward is for now & later, not necessarily through removal of the physical body, because again, the body is just a reflection of unseen with the seen (as with light ). So what needs to be transformed is the mind -the way it does things. The mind is supposed to translate the spiritual things into our physical bodies. The treasures within the heart -the kingdom of Heaven -should then be evident in our bodies as well. This definitely shows the glory of the Father, which is salvation and the power of grace instead of what humans do now: adorning themselves with material things -to appear glorified.
    
    Now, IF we are separated from our physical bodies, then we must be reunited with it -else we can say we are human beings. If the body is too weak to uphold those spiritual projections then yes it must be taken off, discarded and a new one put on it. Makes sense. As the saying goes: who can praise Him from the grave. But again, it is not necessary to do. That regeneration can be done with the present body. All it takes is that real seed of faith and simple, very simple application of that faith...

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    21,
    Did you post and then erase it?
    ...I can't find your reply, even though it says you posted;  it now says "page cannot be found"....
    
    Strange (but typical) things happenin' today in the Hub world.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    ...there, I found it.
    
    James, I'm sorry, but I'm not looking for any fountain of youth nor for my physical body to remain forever.  I wanna be like the Lord, who is....Spirit.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       emm, but He is body AND spirit.
       Show me in the NT where it says he is not and perhaps I might reconsider. The Father is spirit. Y`shua said this and told us to worship the Father, not Him. He called us brothers, friends. The first-born of many brothers. also why did many also rise up and were seen all over the place? This is what is missing in the 'christian' teaching context.
       
       I am all for the Spirit. It is the Spirit that manifests (makes visible) the hidden things (revelations/enigmas) of the Father. How can they become visible? In our physical bodies. Else, what is the purpose of the body? A temporary holding cell for our spirit?
       In that case we would be exactly like the angels. Which we are not. We were created greater than angels ; were served by angels; no more angels are being created. Plus, why would He create us with a physical body -that heals itself, etc- only to destroy it? Why did the first born of humans live to be 1,000 years -even in sin nature.
       
       Most importantly, who ever said you had to die or even better not be transformed here and now. I mean even the supposed 'rapture' clearly states this should be how we are -now. Paul confirms it, as does James & John.
       
       (ps, yes, HP must be working on stuff)

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    We're the clay and He's the potter.  We are vessels, for either good or bad, whichever we choose.
    
    The preacher in Ecclesiastes speaks often of vanity, the vanity of youth and the vanity of the physical nature and body.
    
    12: 7 says "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:  and the spirit shall return unot God who gave it."
    
    Also read 11: 8.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       again, that is ONLY because of the sin nature under the OLD covenant. Which has been fulfilled by Y`shua -completely and for everyone who believes. Of course it is vanity that humans think they are better than the Father or His word from which everything came. But it doesn't suggest the New creature in Anointing (Christ) has anything to do with it, nor should be concerned with it.
       
       You know what is truly interesting is how many believers are still living by old testament rules with new testament excitement. I often wonder if it is only because of what they have not been taught.

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          Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I dunno.
          Maybe it could be because.....they (I) have heard so many charismatics preach about instant healing and instant this and instant that, instead of compelling people to have an instant change, a real change, of heart and follow the Lord....
          
          
          If people cannot or will not even fathom the fact that Jesus is God and the Messiah the Old Testament people were looking for.....how could they possibly handle His power if it were given more fully?   Plus, there are others like me who believe the Power is just as evident and as full when it's displayed and confirmed via Spirit through spirit, without always physical evidence.  That's another situation where pure unquestioned Faith comes in.

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             Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I agree. but they are just 'name it/claim' noise makers.
             (whom I know very well, from non-denominational born again to bible wielding Pentecostals -who are so far from the Spirit it is creepy and scary). That is why I said people are starting to wake up. There is so much people are missing/wasting.
             
             Change can happen instantly. But knowing what I do about things planting/growing, it takes a little bit of work and waiting -not very long though.
             
             edit:
             
             Most believers I have spoken to over the last 10 years or so, cannot seem to go passed the point of accepting Him as one with the Father, the fullness of Him that fills all in all, the word. It is like they are stuck and like "okay, now what? Do we just wait or what?" And this falls on the shoulders of those in the ministry. Instead of a showing a full measure of faith and active in all believers -there are now millions of complacent sheep trying to gather up other lost sheep to sit with them- because they don't know what else to do.

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             Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I am sure believers can fathom it, so that excuse has to go out the window.
             The Spirit regulates the flow of power, so there is no reason for any believer to be lacking, scared or avoiding it. Again, the non-believing believe because either they hear the word -in their heart- or by seeing believers in action (with or without miracles). The Spirits power is not just miracles...
             
             As for spirit to spirit, the Spirit empowers our spirit, yes. Because it is the same spirit. But, this is vital, the Spirit does not testify on its own behalf. Instead it manifests the word in our hearts into the world around -the visible world. This is what makes humans completely unique, different from any other creature in the heavens, on the surface or below the surface of the earth...

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    Your ISM is showing again James.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       well don't i feel sheeeepish.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I is a sheep!
    And I know His voice!
    haha
    
    James, I gotta go.
    Talk to ya later.

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    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Hey Earnest, did you get the message....ONE GOD?

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Cags! I seem to have trouble ascertaining which one is "the only true god"
       Should be easy, I have thousands to pick from!

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          Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Earnest, laughing at yourself in public is well, downright sad.
          You have been the poster child of 'gods' for decades. Sorry, reality slapped you in the face. It's painful, no doubt. And although self designed enlightenment caused liberation, to an otherwise expected delusion, my hat to you - Good job! Good slave!
          Instead of compensating for any loss with sarcasm, try engaging reality beyond a Garden Variety Epicure...
          
          Glad to see your pep hasn't dried up, though.

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             earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I see you make as much sense as usual.

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                Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                To you, of course, my friend!
                But that is what makes you interesting.

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    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    I guess you missed my point. Oh well, hope you are well. You seem to be an aggressive mood today.

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I guess I did miss your point. Care to clarify? I am Good thanks, no, I am same, not feeling any aggression.
       I will admit to being half asleep though.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Some things, God takes us out of;
    some things, He takes us through.

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       donotfearposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       
       Brenda, I love this quote......

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    I see so few things these days that renew my "faith" in any goodness in America.....
    but recently I've seen a couple of things that do just that.
    I'm a happy camper.
    Hey, gotta take the bad.  But when the good comes, it's awesome!
    Praise God that He's still on the Throne and in His heaven;  but especially in the hearts of His followers!

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    The Lighthouse
    
    
    I love these old songs!
    
    
    
    
    
    
    There's a Lighthouse on the hillside
    That over-looks life's sea
    When I'm tossed it sends out a light
    That I might see
    And the light that shines in darkness now
    Will safely lead us o'er
    If it wasn't for the Lighthouse
    My ship would be no more
    
    And I thank God for the Lighthouse
    I owe my life to Him
    For Jesus is the Lighthouse
    And from the rocks of sin
    He has shown a light around me
    That I could clearly see
    If it wasn't for the Lighthouse (tell me)
    Where would this ship be?
    
    Everybody that lives about us
    Says tear that Lighthouse down
    The big ships don't sail this way anymore
    There's no use of it standing round
    Then my mind goes back to that stormy night
    When just in time I saw the light
    Yes, the light from that old Lighthouse
    That stands up there on the hill
    
    
    If it wasn't for the Lighthouse (tell me)
    Where would this ship be?

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
    
    
    
    
    
    Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
    
    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
    
    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate...we can not consecrate...we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract.
    
    The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.
    
    It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago

    There's a song I love.   I first heard it by a man named Bob Carlisle.  It's about the testimony of a priest.  I'm not Catholic by any means, but the song really is an awesome statement about how a Believer's walk is with the Lord.
    I'm afraid to put all the lyrics here because I dunno about copyright rules on it, but part of it says
    
    We fall down and get up
    We fall down and get up
    And the saints are just the sinners
    who fall down
    and get up....
    
    That's how a Christian's walk is.
    We fall down sometimes.  But we get back up and try again.  We get back up and get back on the path to forgiveness and His glory.  We don't stay down.  We never give up.

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