Do you really believe theirs a God?

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  1. earnestshub profile image86
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    This is evil isn't it?

  2. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
    ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

    Like I said earlier, here's PROOF that HE exists!!!

    At $49 its a steal too!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twzXR38CMWA

    Daytona

    1. earnestshub profile image86
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Where would we be without South Park! lol

      1. Cagsil profile image77
        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Better off? roll

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Like a lot of American cartoons, more honest than the news by a long shot! lol

          1. tantrum profile image61
            tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            lol

          2. Cagsil profile image77
            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It is no different then the bias news already received from mass media coverage on all world events. roll

        2. nikki1 profile image61
          nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          That is such as horrible show in my opinion sad.

          1. Cagsil profile image77
            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I will agree. It's a sadly pathetic show, as is with the rest of the other animated ones. How these became prime time shows? Is beyond all comprehension. smile

            1. nikki1 profile image61
              nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I only wish we could get them off the air. They contaminating.
              I think. Not to mention dysfunctional sad.

              1. Cagsil profile image77
                Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I guess stupid humor goes a long way. lol lol lol

                1. earnestshub profile image86
                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  How do you go with "The Simpsons" then? smileI swear I have met Ned Flanders in real life! lol

                  1. Cagsil profile image77
                    Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    That show is just as pathetic as the rest. roll lol lol

  3. tantrum profile image61
    tantrumposted 13 years ago

    Mercy is founded in love

  4. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
    ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

    Please DON'T make me break out the Mr. Hanky Video Clips.

    Daytona

  5. Williamjordan profile image57
    Williamjordanposted 13 years ago

    What happen to simple yes or no answer where all these damn smart ass people come from did you make yourselves or what person hurting have you help. If you don't believe write what you do once again have you ever heared me comment on your petty bullshit,I am not once of those feaks that have a fake God I am a hardcore street person that the so called christian like to pet on the head and give a dollar and the unbeliever like to jump on or call the police on you both wish I would disappear so you can live your fake lies. You will see real believers will help the childern and all suffers as much as they can.So take your cute world debates to another forum where people get a kick out of bullshit because I want to know does anybody else want to help change this world we have mess up by being bad stewards and letting anybody say they are a christian regardless of there action it's not for God to stand up it's for us who say we believe to stand up and live as if we believe.

    1. Jerami profile image58
      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think that it is too close to the end of the book now to change  what we have already written. We can't unboil an egg or un pickle a cucumber. We can however try to improve the conditions of the world that is within our reach.

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        i dwell in possibility wink

  6. profile image0
    seasoningposted 13 years ago

    will we all just agree to disagree, and be done with it

  7. Williamjordan profile image57
    Williamjordanposted 13 years ago

    No we cannot undue the past but we can make a differance like,some of the man I write about in my Hubs they made a differnt doing there time we can make a differance and our time God will help us.

  8. Holy Land Gifts profile image60
    Holy Land Giftsposted 13 years ago

    God does exist and he has proven that time and time again to people. However, it all depends on if people are going to see past the blinders that they have on to see that God is speaking to them or if they are going to let themselves continue to be blinded by the greed or thoughts that he doesn't exist that Satan plants in the minds of people.

    God does exist and he has proven it multiple times.

    1. profile image0
      cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      you mean Satan goes around planting ThereIsNoChristianGod seeds in everyone's consciousness? even little babies? how does he do that? is it through Black Magic or something? how does he know who he implanted already? does he keep a log or something?

      1. greeneyesH1982 profile image61
        greeneyesH1982posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        watch this it makes some good points





        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5lY0TcdAw

        1. Cagsil profile image77
          Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Theologian run around circular junk.

          It insinuates something came from nothing, when we already know that everything came from somewhere. smile

          1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
            TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            And where did the "somewhere from whence everything came" come from?

      2. AdsenseStrategies profile image65
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Nice back (oh, I think I already said that somewhere. Well never mind, it is a nice back, so hey)

    2. tantrum profile image61
      tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      so thinking God doesn't exist is greed
      and greed is Satan's seed.

      It looks like Satan is a very good farmer.

      I love farms.

      1. profile image0
        zampanoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Hummmmmm.
        I get all excited when you talk like that...

    3. AdsenseStrategies profile image65
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This post is clearly blatant self-promotion hmm (okay well you have to see the poster's avatar)

    4. nikki1 profile image61
      nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      big_smile thank you

  9. profile image50
    The Paulposted 13 years ago

    Satan is such a feeble defense of the tri-om god.

    If some supremely powerful, supremely knowledgeable, entity which loves us exists, the existence or non-existence of Satan is totally irrelevant.

    The parent analogy that Christians are fond of is ironically useful for destroying Christian conceptions of God:

    Suppose you are a physically powerful and competent individual with finely honed senses.  Suppose you have a small dog which is getting on in years and begun to suffer from dementia, and a young child whom you love very much.

    Suppose this animal, in its madness, savagely attacks your child an any available opportunity.  It does not merely bite and run away, but continues to attack, you know it will tear at your child's flesh about the face and neck if you allow it to continue.  The child is too young to defend themself.

    The animal is no threat to you, you can easily restrain or otherwise overcome it, and you are fully aware of its position in relation to your child and its activities.  In all likelyhood you will have the animal destroyed.  Yes, it is sad, but it's the best course of action.

    Or perhaps you can't bring yourself to destroy this poor animal, which does not understand that what it is doing is wrong.  You would take some action, separate it from your child, keep it penned or restricted to some specific portion of your home.

    What you would not do is continue to allow both the dog and the child to wander about your home as they will, resulting in many traumatic attacks upon your beloved child by your ailing pet, and even if were so foolish that you did, you would not stand aside and let the attacks take place without interfering.

    Satan doesn't excuse your supposed god.

  10. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
    ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

    The Cowboys haven't won a Playoff game in 14 years. So I am on my knees asking my God for a win tonight, so please hold all your favors until he grants mine. Thank You!

    Daytona

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
      TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know, Daytona...I think the Cowboys must've pissed off God...or Satan one.

  11. profile image0
    zampanoposted 13 years ago

    Do you really believe theirs a God?
    Whose god ?

  12. TheGlassSpider profile image63
    TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

    I'd just like to point out that for the majority of human history the existence of deity has been accepted as fact.

    The claim that God does not exist is much, much more recent in human history.

    I say the burden of proof lies with the atheists; theirs is the most recent claim. Let's see some rock-solid proof that there is NO deity.

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image65
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is also true of the notion that men and women are equal, or that slavery is not ok. Just an observation

      1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
        TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Yep, and the women and black people have proven their cases.

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image65
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          No, I mean that for centuries upon centuries women have literally been seen as property, but "the claim that" they are equal "is much, much more recent in human history."

          Nevertheless, women and blacks SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO prove their cases... it was ALWAYS true that what people thought  about these two classes of people was erroneous. (Sorry about the caps... just easier... it's pretty late here)

          1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
            TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            lol...I hear you on the caps.

            As to your argument that their claims were always true: Those who accept that God exists see that as something that SHOULD BE OBVIOUS.

            1. AdsenseStrategies profile image65
              AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              OK, maybe, but that wasn't your initial point. Your argument was that things that have been held for a long time are more likely to be right...

              1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
                TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Not exactly; I do not think that it's more likely to be right because it's older, but that if someone should have to put forward proof and evidence, it should be the atheists, theirs is the most recent claim in this debate. Prior to their claim, people assumed the existence of God (because as theists will tell you, it is obvious)--so let them prove their claim.

                1. earnestshub profile image86
                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Why would anyone need to claim a belief simply because they do not wish to believe the controlling crap in the religious tomes? Invisible, inactive sky fairies won't cut it with a smart four year old unless indoctrinated! lol

                  1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
                    TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    You can spout your mess about "inactive sky fairies," which is insulting in and of itself--as someone who claims to have previously had "strong religious feelings" should know--all you want; I have not been disrepectful to you, Earnest, and usually find you quite nice to talk to. But I *ALSO* find it quite difficult to believe that random explosions result in intricate universes. So, I require proof that there isn't intelligence behind existence.

                2. profile image50
                  The Paulposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Your god was invented several hundred years ago.  For all the rest of human history, no one believed in your god.  Even if argumentum ad populum wasn't a logical fallacy (that's what you're doing by the way, using a logical fallacy) it would still be on your head to show some evidence of your god.

                  1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
                    TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    And who is "my god"? Do you know? I think not.

                    ETA: You don't know me, and you *think* you know who and what I believe it, but it's obvious from the tripe you spout that you don't.

    2. IntimatEvolution profile image72
      IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hell, one Hubber here cannot even own up to making accusations of calling Christ a liar.  What makes you think they are up to that kind of challenge.  I'd say we are out of luck on this one.  They want respect, but yet they don't give it.  So then what?

    3. earnestshub profile image86
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      There have been hundreds of deities! lol

  13. IntimatEvolution profile image72
    IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years ago

    You called him a liar.  That is making an accusation.  You may be from Australia, but I sure we all use the same dictionaries.

    Whatever....

  14. TheGlassSpider profile image63
    TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

    I would also like to point out for believers as well as atheists that if one looks up the word "satan" in a concordance, one will find that satan is not an entity, or personality. "Satan" means "enemy;" satan is anything that stands in the way of that which is good.


    Many people have "satan" confused with an entity called "Lucifer." They are not one and the same.

  15. Arthur Fontes profile image80
    Arthur Fontesposted 13 years ago

    I saw this on a church billboard:

    "God does not beleive in atheists so actually they do not esist."



    I thought it was humurous.

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image65
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Is that like the old one...

      God is Dead - Nietzsche

      Nietzsche is Dead - God  ?

  16. IntimatEvolution profile image72
    IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years ago

    earnesthub, you surprised me.  Thought for sure you were a man of honor.  Man, I even remember not too long ago where I sent you an email, apologizing for Christians who behave badly towards you for being an Atheist.  Who called you names like gutless. 

    You really show yourself in a new light.  You like bully, you like to make accusations.  But cannot stand up to follow through with your own words, and stand up to that argument in a respectful manner as you so desired from bashing Christians. 

    Did you ever hear the old saying, you are what you eat?

    Respectable my butt crack............

    Seriously, calling me gutless.  How about you standing behind your words, and following through with your own actions.  How about YOU treating ME with the same respect that YOU want to be treated with.  How about that?

    Talk about calling the kettle black.

  17. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
    ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

    You said any evidence would suffice.

    Well, I prayed to "Our GOD" about four hours ago for a Dallas Cowboys win after 14 years of not winning a Playoff Game! The fact they crushed the Philly Eagles tonight is proof positive that HE does exist. I think we can now close the book on whether HE exists or not. You now have SOLID Proof! There can be no denying this and I accept all apologies in advance from those of you who were doubting this before tonight.

    Daytona wink

    1. earnestshub profile image86
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am in deep shock! That was more unlikely than the second coming!! lol lol

      1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
        TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        lol We agree!! lol

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          You and other fans must be ecstatic! lol lol

          1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
            TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            To be honest, I gave up watching years ago...sad Kinda makes me sad...I would like to have watched it with my Dad, like old times.

            Ah well...

            1. earnestshub profile image86
              earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry, is Dad gone? I miss my Dad all the time. smile

              1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
                TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Well, he's pretty far away...and we've been estranged for a few years. We have inconsistent communication...I miss being small and hangin' out with him. When I was a little girl, my Dad was just *the best* thing since sliced bread. It sounds like you know what I mean, except just on the guy end...I wish we knew each other better now.

                I hope we'll get there.

                I'm sorry you miss your Dad too. I lost my Mom a little over a year ago. It cuts like a knife.

                1. earnestshub profile image86
                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I lost my dad fifteen years ago, my mom went soon after. I hope you can sort it out with your dad, it is not easy when they are alive, impossible when they are gone..

                  1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
                    TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Thanks, Earnest, me too; I'm trying.

                    I'm sorry for your loss. I know it's been awhile, but I understand it remains painful.

    2. Cagsil profile image77
      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      lol lol lol lol Pray for the Cowboys to WIN and when it happens, the credit goes to GOD?

      How ridiculous is that? They are a professional football team, who happens to be really good. GOD had nothing to do with them winning. smile But, thanks for letting me know you're praying for them? roll lol lol

      1. RKHenry profile image63
        RKHenryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Hey what about those who prayed for the Eagles to win??cool

        I wonder what the h*ll happen?

        1. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
          ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Very simple answer. I prayed to OUR GOD and in addition to asking for the Cowboys to win, I asked for HIM to ignore all the Eagles Fans requests. Now, since I made a public notice here I asked him, before any Eagles fans did, he showed his power by granting my wishes. Its that simple.

          Cagsil...Did you ask how RIDUCULOUS it was I prayed to OUR God and he responded. Now come on home boy, you said they are a professional team and are REALLY GOOD??? They had't won a playoff game in 14 years, Until I made the request last night. You have your proof and you can stop your rantings about whatever object you call your god. Its clear now you must pray to My GOD because he is all our GOD!!! He proved it last night and you are just embarrassed to see you were wrong.

          The fact he ignored Eagles fans this year can be easily explained this way. He thinks what Michael Vick did was an abomination, and he loves dogs....

          ps. The reason the New Cowboys stadium has a retractable roof...its so GOD can watch his favorite team play too. C;mon guys, that should convince all of you to just stop this bickering and love our Dallas Cowboy lovin GOD!!!

          Daytona

          1. RKHenry profile image63
            RKHenryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            oh god help us all.lollollol

          2. Cagsil profile image77
            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I find your statement ridiculous, because you are Claiming "OUR" God. If you think there is a God, so be it, but don't make it mine.

            You want to belief in imaginary things, be my guest. Don't include me in your plans.

            Do you normally live in the past? Btw- I don't pray to NO GOD, because there is no god to pray to. So, please. big_smile

          3. profile image55
            (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It's really that simple. And, while god was making sure your request to have your favorite football team win, 25,000 children starved to death.

            You must be very proud of yourself.

        2. Cagsil profile image77
          Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          lol lol

  18. Hear Mum Roar profile image60
    Hear Mum Roarposted 13 years ago

    Yes, I believe in a god of sorts, but I don't call it god. I don't believe in a god in the Christian sense at all.

  19. TheGlassSpider profile image63
    TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

    Besides, I'm not offering that as a proof of the existence of god...only proof that the default position in history is not the atheists'.

    In other words, the *more* ridiculous claim historically is YOURS, and intelligent people for most of the history of the world would have laughed in your face, as I do. So YOU prove YOUR ridiculous claim. The burden of proof rests with the atheists.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image58
      Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      LOLOL

      Wow - sorry your ridiculous beliefs are not accepted any more. Education will do that to you.

      I see you are very angry - why is that?

      1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
        TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        LOL...I'm not angry...I just don't know how to make italics for emphasis here. LOL I personally don't care what you believe...and take more offense to so-called believers in the Bible who run around spouting *their* tripe about eternal torture and damnation.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image58
          Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          So - you can prove that the eternal torture and damnation one does not exist then?

          Click the button that says "Formatting tips" when you make your next response.

          1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
            TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I believe that the word "hell" has gotten incorrect connotations. I certainly haven't found some mythical underground place where a dude in a red devil suit is burning people up forever--have you?

            The Hebrew people believed that when you died you were dead. You went into the ground, period. The word that has gotten translated as "hell" (particularly in the Old Testament) was *originally* the word "sheol." A look in a concordance will show that this word means grave.

            The confusion begins with the New Testament, where it became necessary for disciples know what Torah said in Hebrew and be able to communicate it Greek...So the words "Hades" and "Gehenna" come into use (as translations of Sheol) with their connotations of burning and the mythical underground....but that is not the intended meaning:

            Hell=the grave; not some place of eternal torture...So I get a kick out of telling other believers that everyone goes to Hell...lol

            1. Mark Knowles profile image58
              Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I am well aware of the misinterpretations used by the current crop of evangelicals.

              Now prove that their god does not exist and justify why I should accept the burden of proof for saying - "none of your gods exist."

              LOL - You guys cannot even agree what the bible says (see 1800 years of wars) let alone define this invisible super being.

              And somehow I should be able to disprove it - when you cannot even agree or define it. wink

              Disprove all the others that are not "yours" then.

  20. Mark Knowles profile image58
    Mark Knowlesposted 13 years ago

    "Tripe"?

    Golly gosh you believers get defensive when asked to show something other than bronze age fairy tales as proof.

    Perhaps you could now go ahead and define your god - and either offer some proof (other than "it is obvious" LOLOLOLO) or stop accusing people of spouting tripe because they do not believe in your invisible super being?

    Although - yours is one of the best "I don't need to offer any proof" arguments I have heard. Much better than the usual "If you cannot disprove it - it must be true" rubbish.

    So - proof please. Whenever you are ready. wink

  21. RKHenry profile image63
    RKHenryposted 13 years ago

    IE 1
    Earnsthub 0

    Nice spanking IE!  Well done mate.

    earnsthub, she checked mate your butt at your own game.cool

    God, that's funny.

    1. earnestshub profile image86
      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is isn't it? lol So she is serious? lol
      Hi tantrum! :)Hi aware and RKH.

    2. profile image0
      lyricsingrayposted 13 years ago

      unsure.

    3. TheGlassSpider profile image63
      TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

      Since you are *so well versed* in all this scholarly crap, you know that this work has already been done...Holding off for a moment on the "personality" of God or attributes of God (which any HONEST or intelligent believer will tell you they're still studying and learning about, and couldn't prove anyway--I can't even prove MY attributes, much less God's...could you *prove* to me that you're a nice guy?)-one can begin with the arguments for intelligent design.

      When someone can prove to me that random explosions result intricate universes OR disprove Aquinas' arguments for the existence of an intelligent creator of the Universe, then I might consider a new line of belief. But as far as I can tell Stephen Hawking disproved the Big Bang theory and Aquinas' proofs have yet to be denied.

      No reason for me to waste my time re-iterating that stuff when I can point you to it. Of course, I'm sure it won't matter, and I don't have much of interest in proving myself right or wrong (ETA: to you or atheists). I get tired of insulting debates in which most people cannot maintain respect for fellow human beings regardless of their beliefs....And, as I'm sure you know, humans have this tendency to not be swayed from their arguments. Plus, as I said before...I'm more concerned about believers who spread the lie of "hell" and torture than I am with atheists and what they believe...they get points with me just because they're not condemning people. LOL

      When it comes right down to it...everyone's got to find God on their own. I can see him in the intricacy of planetary orbits, and in the perfection of the mathematical formula that results in a perfect wave shape for the nautilus, the waves, and the growth of trees. I can see Him in the incredible diversity of life on this planet, and great mystery that is the spark of life; when I say it's obvious, those are the kinds of things I'm talking about--I don't think random explosions make those things. I have personal as well as academic reasons for my belief. But I am capable of admitting that it's a belief, not a fact, and I don't require *you* or anyone else to believe in it. I think it's fun to discuss it, but I get pretty disgusted when people get bent out of shape about it.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image58
        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        So why is the burden of proof on me? - if you freely admit you have nothing to prove - just a belief.

        Why should I need to disprove it when you cannot define it, have no argument in favor other than "there must be a god.... because," and cannot prove it.

        Yours has no rules for me to follow I take it?

        1. TheGlassSpider profile image63
          TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Again, it becomes apparent to me that you do not take the time to read what other people write to you.

          Atheists (not you, personally) are the people who introduced these ideas of Big Bangs and lack of intelligent design...I would just like to see the proof of that. *shrug* Nobody seems willing to provide it.



          It's lunch time here, and I have to make sure my elderly gentleman is fed and has his treatments...but I'm sure we'll run across each other soon.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image58
            Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I read what you wrote.

            What you are saying is - You said there was a god first, therefore it is up to me to disprove it.

            Fine - great argument. I guess that means the Buffalo god we originally worshiped is going to be pissed.

            Seriously - you have not made a rational argument and this is - I feel - the basis of the friction between believers and atheists. You are trying to justify your ridiculous beliefs - and most of these gods come with a set of rules we should follow.

            You are just running away from the burden of proof.

            Like all believers - why? Because you have none. Irrational belief is what you have.

            And I need to disprove the invisible super being? lol lol

            Hence the clash.

            You cannot see how useless and evasive your argument is.

            Seriously - the burden of proof is on you.

            Tell you what - you disprove all those gods that are not yours and I will disprove the remaining one.

            After you. wink

    4. TheGlassSpider profile image63
      TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

      Sorry that took so long, BTW...I care for an elderly gentleman, and I'm often back and forth.

    5. profile image50
      The Paulposted 13 years ago

      You don't directly get an understanding of the transformations religion has gone through by reading it in a religious text, because what's happening is exactly what the majority of theologians, (they are most often religious themselves, it seems) don't want to admit:  That their god mutates and changes in exactly the same fashion as every other cultural phenomenon

      No accepted apologist is ever going to spell it out for you.

      You read the bible, you read religious essays from the first couple of centuries, you read religious essays down the line through when all that reformation stuff was going on, you talk to Christians today...

      ...these people are not worshiping the same god. 

      And you might even be able to justify that, but one of the few attributes all these gods share is that they are supposed to be immutable and unchanging.

      As for the origin of the universe, logic just doesn't work like that.  Talking about the big-bang is a distraction.  "God" can not explain the existence of the universe, Dawkins does a good job of explaining why that is.  You probably don't like Dawkins much but for all the time theists spend ridiculing him there seems to be a great reluctance to actually address anything he's said.

      It boils down to this:  Either all complex things need a designer OR that is not true.  Has to be one or the other.  If all complex things need a designer then an ultimate god is immediately rendered impossible.  Each creator must have a creator above it.  I have read several defences of why this should not apply to god.  They are classic examples of special pleading.  If not all complex things require a designer then there is no reason to suspect a creator of the universe unless we find some evidence for one.  Real evidence.  Not "look how amazing this is."

      Tossing the phrase "big bang" into insisting that the universe needs a creator doesn't add anything to the claim, it just highlights how your god is a god of the gaps.  Science pushes the history of the universe farther and farther back, showing us things no ancient priest ever dreamed of, and religion keeps insisting god lives in the bit before that.  Religion crams the gods into the shrinking bits of the big bang and abiogenesis that science doesn't understand.  Into the gaps.

      Gods of gaps are a new phenomenon.  People have not believed in them throughout human history.  Through most of human history the majority of people were isolated and ignorant and they believed in grand, obvious gods that tread wherever they pleased.  Christians included.  Gap-gods are timid, shy creatures by comparison, only invented in the last couple hundred years when communication and knowledge showed us the gods that had been popular for so long didn't exist.

      So saying to an atheist "People have always believed in my god, it's up to you to prove why we should change things," doesn't hold water.  Gods come and go.  Your god is a new god, and whether or not people continue to believe in gods in general, sooner or later they will stop believing in yours.

    6. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
      ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

      I will put in a request RKhenry for you and see what I can do.

      Daytona

      1. RKHenry profile image63
        RKHenryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Yeah, you do that.  My ass hurts from sitting here too long.  Pray for that too while you are at it. 

        I'm tired, got chores to do, and I'll check back later.  Bye you all for now.

    7. profile image0
      Denno66posted 13 years ago

      OMG! No God! *winces*

    8. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
      ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

      RKhenry....

      I can understand your frustrations, but Our GOD is not like a local radio station who takes requests all day long. I happened to appeal to HIS football side, and knowing HIS team is the Cowboys aka "Americas Team" HE made that request easily fulfilled.

      As far as your ass hurting, I might suggest preparation H or maybe watching certain activities you do that may cause pain in that area. A comfortable cushion on your chair may do the trick, we don't need to bother GOD for that one. wink

      Daytona

    9. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
      ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

      Cagsil says...You want to belief in imaginary things, be my guest. Don't include me in your plans.


      I see your are a little misguided, so I am taking you under my wing and allowing you to pray to OUR GOD! He is NOW in your plans, and will always be there for you. So stop kicking and screaming and just enjoy HIS Gift.

      Daytona

      1. Cagsil profile image77
        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Misguided? You're obvious the misguided one. lol lol lol

    10. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
      ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

      Hey Q

      No sense of humor. Huh!

      You must be a real pleasure to be around! You've the defintion of a party pooper for sure!

      Note to self: If having a party and need to clear out the room fast, INVITE Q to the Party!

      Daytona

    11. tantrum profile image61
      tantrumposted 13 years ago

      your  posts were humorous???
      the only ones laughing are laughing at you.

    12. aware profile image66
      awareposted 13 years ago

      im not laughing

      1. tantrum profile image61
        tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Hi aware !big_smile

    13. aware profile image66
      awareposted 13 years ago

      hi
      maybe just maybe there is a god . and maybe its a really cool one. then again maybe there aint

    14. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
      ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

      Hey Tantrum

      Well aware your position on these forums is to bait and to belittle, unlike your many victims, I don't fall for your lines, your true colors are a lot clearer than you might like everyone to know.

      As far as your immature comment of everyone laughing AT me, my email box paints a much different picture. But, arguing or trying to convince you of anything but your SET ways would be like trying to win an online discussion about GOD!!! wink Both are a complete and utter waste of my time.

      Daytona smile

      1. tantrum profile image61
        tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        lol
        If that's not childish!

        Why don't you tell me what my true colours are?
        I'm sure everybody will love your description.
        Me included.
        Go ahead !
        lol

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Oooh! Can I go first? smile
          Intelligent, logical, takes no prisoners! Thats my girl! lol

          1. tantrum profile image61
            tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            lol
            hi earnest!!
            Childish answers to childish remarks
            lol
            She thinks she's intelligent.
            She can be my guest !
            lol

    15. TheGlassSpider profile image63
      TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

      Daytona:

      I thought your bit about praying for Cowboys was hilarious myself.
      Got a good laugh!

      lol Good job not taking the bait.

    16. ThePhoneDetective profile image41
      ThePhoneDetectiveposted 13 years ago

      Hey Tantrum

      Seriously, I wouldn't nor should anyone put any stock into anything you say!

      However, on that note, if I ever need tips on mini vactions from HubPages, I'll be sure to come ask for your expertise.

      Daytona


      ps, Thanks Spider, you're not the ONLY one who thought the posts were funny!!!

    17. profile image0
      Marliza Gunterposted 13 years ago

      YES WILLIAM...LIKE I SAID IN MY HUBS...I'VE BEEN TO THE MOST HIGH GOD IN THE TENTH HEAVENLY REALM...THE ONE THAT DAVID SPOKE OF THAT THE HIGHEST HEAVENS CANNOT CONTAIN HIM...HE IS HUGE..NO MASSIVE..NO..ENORMOUS...NO GIGANTIC...NO...TRUTH..HE IS ALL SPACE...THAT IS WHAT DAVID SAW..AND THAT IS WHO I SAW...WITH FIERCE EYES OF FIRE...A VOICE THAT IS SO POWERFUL THAT IT COULD DESTROY THE ENTIRE MILKY WAY WITH NO EFFORT FROM GOD WHATSOEVER...HE IS LOVE...HE IS TRUTH...HE IS SPIRIT...HE IS A HE (NOT A SHE)...HE IS POWER...PEOPLE DOWN HERE HAVE NO COOKING CLUE WITH WHO THEY DEALING WITH WHEN THEY GET ARROGANT AGAINST GOD...IF ANGERED..THEN HE IS MORE THAN A MILLION TIMES WORSE THAN THE TERROR OF SMALL, TINY LITTLE HELL ITSELF...LIKE JESUS SAID...THEY WOULD SCREAM IN TERROR FOR THE MOUNTAINS TO FALL ON THEM..JUST TO HIDE THEM FROM THE FACE OF GOD...IF A MERE MORTAL HUMAN WOULD ONLY LOVE AND OBEY GOD...THEN THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FEAR...GOD WILL BE THEIR ALLAY WITH HIS WHOLE HEART...GOD IS LOYAL AND TRUSTWORTHY...HE IS ALL THAT ANYONE COULD EVER NEED...INCLUDING SOME COMMON SENSE FOR SOME...BE BLESSED smile

      1. profile image55
        (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        "Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." ~~ Russell


        "The most destructive element in the human mind is fear. Fear creates aggressiveness."

        Fear grows in darkness; if you think there's a bogeyman around, turn on the light.~~ Thompson

    18. goldenpath profile image64
      goldenpathposted 13 years ago

      I take a lot of comfort and encouragement in the doctrine that He is real, tangible and as physical as any of us.  It is also comforting to know that the trials we go through are not reserved just for us but for all creation.  God, Himself, had to go through His own mortality and trials on His own world.  We have the same here on Earth.  Just as we have respect for our mortal father's trials in life we, too, should take comfort that our Eternal Father also triumphed the tests of mortality.  Through that triumph He is perfected and has all authority and power through the eternal chain.  Through this, science and order are protected and directed in the instigation of further creations thus renewing the plans of salvation and perfection time and time again - without end.

      1. Cagsil profile image77
        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        roll

        1. Mark Knowles profile image58
          Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          LOL What is this garbage? Is this some mormon crap?

          1. goldenpath profile image64
            goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Interesting.  If the whole idea was discounted ignoring it would have been the best option.  However, only deep seeded dislike for a faith would spawn such reaction.

            I take no offense but I always find it interesting the backlash reaction from people when presented with a different view.  There is much that can be learned from this reaction.

            Thanks for the reply. smile

            1. Mark Knowles profile image58
              Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              So - this is mormon crap then?

              Bet you are qualified to "minister" to people huh?

              1. goldenpath profile image64
                goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Most certainly am.  In fact I celebrate and express that one of the greatest freedoms and liberties we have is to exercise whatever religion we feel compelled to practice or not practice.  I have as much right to express my view as you or anyone else on this platform.  I should be able to without someone degrading those views.  I don't reciprocate that reprehensible attitude to anyone else.  I, personally, just find it illuminating that when a Mormon point of view is expressed then the cavalry comes out as a lynching party circling the prey.  This is only one of the reasons my faith is strengthened.  With much opposition there must be some truth in it or the opposition would not exist in the degree that it does. 

                I support and congratulate your freedom to express your constructive thoughts on the thread topics.  Doing me the courtesy to express mine without someone looping the rope around a tree branch would be most proper and civil. 

                Either way is fine, really.  My life had been threatened several times before some even put me in a hospital over my faith.  I am content with my chosen path.  I must say thank you, though.  Because of the reaction given you have stengthened me this day and gave me new resolve to conquer my own daily trials.  Thank you for helping me through the weekend.  smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image58
                  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Well - as I have tried to explain before - intentionally pissing people off by loudly expressing obnoxious beliefs and provoking people into attacking you is not really something to be proud of. I am pretty sure I could provoke people into putting me in hospital if I chose to. Does not mean anything other than that I am an asshole.

                  I know, I know - like most religions - what is most important to you is becoming a martyr.

                  Good for you. I mean - well done. *clap* *clap* 

                  So - mormon crap then - we agree?

                  Thanks for reminding me why I despise religionists. They always manage to push people into a corner where they feel the need to lash out. You must be very proud.

                  1. goldenpath profile image64
                    goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    I love you to, but remember I am expressing my freedom as you do.  Words should not cause a lashing out.  If the words are rediculous than take comfort in your own belief that the world at large will shun them - as they do.  Also, remember, it is not my fingers making you push the keyboard. 

                    As far as becoming a martyr I would hope that each of us would have a strong enough belief in whatever we believe in, science, religion, shingles on a roof, to be willing to die for them if circumstances put you in a situation where your integrity may be at stake. 

                    To me that is the great thing about the internet.  The more ideas expressed, the more options and systems there are for people to ponder and try - the better.  That goes for the good and the bad.  Giving the people options to choose is a good thing and is part of the design of man from the beginning. 

                    The only ones that get backed into the corner are individuals like me.  Constant provoking to forsake my faith is ever present.  Not submitting to that category of conflict is the key so I always seek the good point of people.

                    Again, thanks for the exchange. smile

                    1. Mark Knowles profile image58
                      Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      It was not me that put you in hospital.

                      It was you.

                      Sorry you do not understand that.

                    2. profile image55
                      (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Yes, it's always about you.

                      Of course, you can justify whatever you want and offend whoever you want cause it's all about you.

                      And, when the offended take offense, it's still all about you being victimized.

      2. profile image55
        (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Sorry, but all that reads like self-affirmation mumbo-jumbo gibberish, the ramblings of an insane egomaniac. It's great material for a psycho thriller movie, though. smile

        1. goldenpath profile image64
          goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well, thank you Q and I agree that would make a good movie as well.  Probably a series of them though.  You know, I did speak of a "chain" of authorities so each one's mortal journey could each be a film of it's own.  I feel a $million$ in it for you.  I would be most grateful if you'd share it with me.  Tithing for my portion would do much good.  smile

          1. Hokey profile image61
            Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You were really doing good until you started asking for tithes. Uh Oh  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$GOD$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

            1. goldenpath profile image64
              goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              What does the population at large consider most precious, even above family.  It is money as I've seen it time and time again.  So, why not ask the ultimate sacrifice of the people - a mere ten percent of their increase - for the building up of the Church on Earth.  Sacrifice and the willingness to do so is part of what it's all about.  It is a small similitude of His sacrifice for us and is what helps build up the Church on Earth.  It goes to build meetinghouses, temples, supplies and printed curriculum for the preaching of the gospel.  Sacrifice of that which we most desire in life = pathway to the Father.  Makes perfect sense to me.

              Thanks for the exchange.  smile

              1. getitrite profile image75
                getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Sounds like a SCAM to me.  I want to give my money directly to God!

    19. cheaptrick profile image73
      cheaptrickposted 13 years ago

      Absolutely there is a God,not the Demiurge that created this world though.

    20. Hokey profile image61
      Hokeyposted 13 years ago

      The way is not in the sky. The way is in the heart. [Buddha]

    21. earnestshub profile image86
      earnestshubposted 13 years ago

      I just want to hear the opinions of religionists after balancing their brain chemistry!
      I am not convinced anyone could believe in any of the hundreds of versions of the sky fairy story if their brain was fully functional! lol

    22. goldenpath profile image64
      goldenpathposted 13 years ago

      Kind and Benevolent Mark Knowles,

      I never said you put me in a hospital.  Find and call me out on any of my comments where I have even come close to stating such.  Also, without knowing the circumstances it is impossible for anyone to charge that it was I or even the tooth fairy that put me there.  In every instance I was approached with absolute hatred because they found my chosen faith.  Never once did a gospel doctrine seep from my mouth.  It never needed to.  Because of that deep conflict of heart my liberty and freedom to choose was sought to be stripped of me.  In the end this, too, strengthened my resolve.  When you have two opposing views and one attacks with only conflict, disgust and hatred in the heart then I am well content that my choice of peace within was correct for me.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image58
        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        You did not read what I said.

        You put yourself in hospital.

        The fact that you chose to pretend it was some one else really has no bearing - and it certainly was not me.

        ou are showing Konflikt now.

        And pretend you are not.

        Lying.

        Like any religion - this is the basis. Lies.

        Sorry you do not see that.

        1. goldenpath profile image64
          goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          No need to keep pushing the envelope.  I entitle no one to an explanation from me.  Thanks to all and let this exchange serve as a testament of the turmoil within and what it can and does do to the relationship of man.  Yet, let us continue to marvel and find peace and reconciliation in the liberty and freedom to express ideas and theologies and the pursuit to do so in peace, understanding and tolerance.  It's truly and unprecedented time in history.

    23. goldenpath profile image64
      goldenpathposted 13 years ago

      Wow, again I was correct.  Hence the cavalry!  smile  I celebrate each of your freedoms of thought expression.  Enjoy.

      1. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Anyone expressing a different view is the cavalry? lol

        1. goldenpath profile image64
          goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Only when they all come out of the woodwork at once to lynch the one with an odd view of life.

          Thanks for the exchange. smile

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You keep being :correct" About what?

            1. goldenpath profile image64
              goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              It's no secret.  As stated at the top primarily when a Mormon point of view is expressed a sudden backlash and intolerance erupts.  It happens with other faiths but I have always seen it most prevalent with Latter-day Saint theology.  I was correct as suddenly a few posts were presented immediately with expressions of intolerance.  This is the only thing I was referring to as being "correct".  It is almost a mathematical certainty that I have come to count on over the many years in the faith.

              1. earnestshub profile image86
                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Well you got it incorrect this time.
                I never considered your mormon-ness, I simply read what I considered to be nonsense and replied accordingly. smile

                1. goldenpath profile image64
                  goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  To me it's all the same.  You were still urged to take the action you did.  That's fine and you are entitled to those thoughts.  I just firmly believe that God as well as the Adversary have untold means to bring about their purposes.

                  I am grateful for the exchange though.  May we clasp hands in understanding on the super highway in hopes of one day doing so in person.  If not, that's fine, but it's the peaceful ways of life.

    24. earnestshub profile image86
      earnestshubposted 13 years ago

      Religionists have no inner peace. They have inner fear, deeply imbedded old brain fear. Then with the help of others who did the same in the past they have to have an answer to their fear of the unknown and particularly death.
      When they started off worshipping the sun, it was irresistible to assume it would not come up in the morning without their help!
      Nothing has changed. smile

    25. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

      {{ where is that fairy swatter...hmmm. Maybe the sci-phi veggie grower has it down under... }}

    26. mr. daydream profile image60
      mr. daydreamposted 13 years ago

      Yes I believe there's a God, a Jesus Christ and a Holy Spirit (The Trinity). There's so many different religions and different perceptions of who God truly is, because no one has seen him (Our human forms wouldn't be able to within the sight of God). It's no need of getting into a big debacle over it, but I do believe there's a Heaven and a Hell (as well as a Satan) who's powerful enough to send his evil spirit into each one of God's children and an attempt to claim as many souls as he can before the end of time, in which every eye (dead or alive) will open, and every knee will bend and confess that there is a living God.

      I PITY ALL ATHESIS COME JUDGMENT DAY, (LOL)

    27. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 13 years ago

      Yes, I do.  Belief in God is based on faith.  We use that same faith to get on an elevator an have no doubt it will take us to the top and the same faith, to sit on a chair and have not doubt that it will hold us.  Now, faith is substance of things hoped for  the evidence of things not seen.  Hebrews 11:1

      1. goldenpath profile image64
        goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        This is so true, Hebrews 11:1! smile  Faith is the principle of all power as well as all action.  Without it there would be nothing.

      2. profile image55
        (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        No, that's not the same faith. The former is blind faith in the invisible and undetectable while the latter is faith in evidence.

        1. profile image0
          SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

          Faith is evidence.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image58
            Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Nonsense. Do you teach this rubbish to your children? And if so - how do you expect them to be able to reason when you are teaching them this nonsense?

            And - tell me - how do you differentiate between faith based lol "evidence" lol and real evidence?

            1. profile image0
              SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              How do you differentiate scientific evidence from spiritual evidence which is what is used to read tarot cards? Do you teach your children to read tarot cards?

              1. profile image55
                (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Simple, experimentation and observation. Huge difference.

                1. profile image0
                  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  You experiment with tarot cards? How do you justify doing readings if you have to experiment with them?

                  1. profile image55
                    (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    No, I was referring simply to the distinction between scientific evidence and so-called spiritual evidence. One simply tests and observes.

              2. Mark Knowles profile image58
                Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                No one is calling Tarot cards evidence.

                This is how one differentiates between the two.

                Tarot cards - an interpretation of images on pieces of paper in an attempt to understand the human psyche. Not evidence.

                No I do not teach them how to read Tarot cards.

                Now answer my question.

          2. profile image55
            (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Then, you can use your logic to justify the existence of anything conjured from the imagination. Anything.

            1. profile image0
              SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              But this is not true. It takes real evidence not an imagination.

              1. profile image55
                (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Exactly. That is exactly the point. There is no evidence with the invisible and undetectable, that's why it is invisible and undetectable, it simply doesn't exist.

                1. profile image0
                  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The evidence is invisible, but not undetectable. I told you before how to detect it. You refused. Of course, I believe you detected it before and refused it.

                  Tell me why you rejected it. For real I  mean.

                  1. profile image55
                    (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Yes, it is undetectable. There has never been a detection of your claims to gods. Never.



                    No, you didn't. You offered the typical fallacy to ask your god. That's a fallacy, not a solution. If you can't offer the explanation, then you have nothing to offer in the first place.

                    My first physics teacher told me that if you can explain relativity to your grandmother, then you know you understand it yourself.

                    1. profile image0
                      SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Did you even try what I said tyo try? What are you afraid of? Are you worried I might be right or worried that someone might think you are loony?

                      You won't do the experiment I suggested but you merely step all over it. That is the real scientific way isn't it.

                      By the way, science is constantly changing their facts. Each time something new shows up it changes everything. Who can really keep up with it?

                      God never changes. He is always the same and easily found for those who seek Him. It is up to you to find out for certain. After all, it is your life and you are the one asking for evidence. I would think you would want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt. Maybe I am wrong?

                2. Mikel G Roberts profile image70
                  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  God isnt undetectable, invisible yes undetectable no, I feel God.

                  1. profile image55
                    (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Many theists will lie in order to support their delusions and will never back down from the lie no matter what you say because they know if they do back down, the foundations of their beliefs will crumble and fall.

                    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image70
                      Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      As will many of the Atheist Faith...

    28. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

      seems in all the Hubbub, actually forget to answer the forum:

      yes.

      not because someone told me to or asked me to or made me.
      not because a book says he exists or another says he doesn't.

      I choose, by my own free will (the only moral absolute) to believe.
      everything else is the Need To Know. And, not one human actually needs to know. It is like saying a pear is a pear.

      1. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Total frogdroppings! The only way to follow a god is to be indoctrinated. Otherwise sanity prevails hopefully, and the fairy does not come in to it. smile

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          see, just shows how dull you are fairy friend.
          now, go back to sleep, your boring.

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That comment says more about you than me! lol

            1. profile image0
              Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              now, go back to sleep, your boring.
              That comment says more about you than me!

              I've got clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here i am stuck in the middle with you. now bugger off fairy friend. I think your mum is calling, eh

              1. earnestshub profile image86
                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Sometimes it is nice to sit back and let you do all the work!
                "Say what you will, you can but say what you are" seems appropriate.

                1. profile image0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  oh wait, no, i might -yes, here it is, a brownie button just for you.

    29. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

      to a point Jewels I concur.

      but death is presumed as either moving 'up' to a better place or worm food.

      death of consciousness is simply accepting the obvious: humans know everything they need to. It was put there, into their genetic framework, so they could and ought to live beyond it.

      beyond, not as in a far away place, but in that state of being designed for them -unity with Creator/creation. Perfect.

      at least that is my take on it...

      ps, how are things with you?

      1. Jewels profile image81
        Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Hi TOD, I'm good, you?

        It's very apparent that people speak different languages when referring to what consciousness is.  Same could be said for what the heck God is.  I find the need for a personal God quite silly.  But consciousness is the basis for our own evolution, either physically or spiritually.  If you want to talk spiritual evolution, that's a massive massive topic to which a myriad of perspectives exist.  So it takes the ability to have tangible experiences to fathom what was unconscious and then bring it into consciousness. 

        A good motto is "never assume anything."  There are no guarantees at death, from my knowledge, whether you think you know 'god 'or not as to where you end up.  Though I, based on my own experiences, know that my consciousness will be retained regardless of my organic body rotting or being burnt after death.  Having had many out of body experiences  I know that my consciousness is not dependent on my physical body to exist.  Going upwards assumes gravity and beyond this planetary sphere I'm of the belief gravity doesn't exist.  So geographical direction may take on a different measure.

        Transitioning to a 'nirvana' depends on ones state of consciousness, so best not be ignorant of it, but awakened to it.

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          good. par le` -ing with the ned to know folk.
          your expression has some meat to it. I am going to chew on it for a bit and with any fortune, find it is (as Mike Myers said: like 'butta').

          ps, James. TOD is so weird...lol

    30. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

      Earnest, Cagsil, Knowles, Tantrum...am missing a few.

      do this;

      an actual intellectual argument with myself.

      all conjecture, religion, bias aside. What do you say, eh?

      the rules:
      any argument must have a basic set of rules to define the parameters of said argument and a SUBSTANTIAL thesis of the points of that notion, explained thoroughly, without pre conceived ideologies or ritual systems of equation/sensation to prove ones point.

      a non-theological/non-mystical approach v. atheist approach.
      no scientific injection or religious injection are allowed.
      straight thinking, man, yes?

      i challenge any and all of you together to accept.
      -let's find out how deep this rabbit hole goes, eh-

      1. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        An intellectual argument with you?
        I am sorry, I must decline! lol lol lol

      2. Mark Knowles profile image58
        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        there is no rabbit hole uh- the fact that you feel the need to cause conflict by making statement such as the one you have just made is a more eloquent argument against your beliefs than anything I could say ugh- no rabbit hole eh- delusions of a failure eh- many people who fail at everything they attempt need to pretend there is something else that is invisible that will magically give them the life they failed to achieve, uh sad really but I do appreciate the constant reminders as to why I discarded any belief in an invisible super being, ugh- most of the people claiming to believe it behave in this fashion eh-

     
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