Do you believe that Reason will triumph over Faith in the so called New World Order(New Age) ?
No. Emotions, desire, anger, etc. will always trump reason. We are not a society of Mr. Spock's or Data's (both from Star Trek).
Reason and faith are not mutually exclusive. Faith without reason is just belief.
@Live to Learn,
Reason and Faith can be mutually exclusive.You can reason and lack faith and you can have faith and lack reason.Some scientists reason but they lack faith while on the other hand some religious people have blind faith and lack reason.This is why the world is messed up.
To answer this you need to define faith and reason because they can mean different things to different people.
In order to have faith in something or someone you have to use reason to decide. Blind faith is another thing altogether and doesn’t require reason. Many people confuse blind faith with reasoned faith. Reason being the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic it is easy to see that in order to put your faith in anything you must use reason, otherwise it is blind faith.
Reason is why you may have faith in science the same as reason is what may lead scientists to have faith in God.
To make it a choice between faith and reason triumphing is really a faulty comparison. If you mean blind faith and reason there is no question reason will triumph, it is not even debatable.
I do not think that one needs to triumph over another. Faith and reason do not have to be at odds; they can compliment each other, both being useful in a balanced outlook on life.
Hey, Jeff, how can reason ride over faith? Faith is GOD! Reason brings with it self-condemnation as can be seen in the garden of Eden when the first man and woman fall from grace to grass.
Reason cannot take it for a grant that there is a GOD! God exists and He rewards people who seek Him.
Reaso can help you think both constructively and destructively, right?
You got it wrong, Faith is not God, Faith is belief that God will keep his promises.Reason is the ability of man to think and make decisions based on those thoughts.
Yes I agree with you, reason can led to destruction if used inappropriately.
I have faith in the power of the people through out the entire mankinds history. Like when the collective conscious of the people reaches 80℅ together they make the positive change from the abuse of the empires or collapse them. It will not be Politican or Religion, as they very very rarely makes any lasting positive change.
More people have been killed in the name of God than any other reason. I won't be turning to God Yahweh when world war three breaks out because the same old 90℅ of the wars today are predominately religious countries. God will be leading the kill making out they are loving their enemies by killing these subhuman demons. You will find me in South America hiding from any Jesus second coming or any scripted Satan red dragons. I think in Muslims hell, you get a monkey shoved up your butt. What worst, 72 virgins in heaven.
Hahaha you are very funny Castle.Lets stick to the discussion though.
Hey, castlepaloma, how interesting! God is not a man. He always tells mankind what will transpire in the future. If he says world war 3 will take place, it surely will be. Does that make God the cause of the war and all wars? Apparently not.
You are right that much war comes as a religious tendency. But did both world wars 1 & 2 caused by religious factors? The answer is no. They are caused by political ambition to dominated the world.
I can agree with you that at the moment, the Moslem can generate a war on just a little trivial thing touch his faith, like how to face the black Ka'abba rightly. Wr, he gladly welcomed it to get the 72 virgins as a wife, when I am tired of making love to just one beloved woman. Thank you.
If God is not a man?
Then my brother who is a pastor is without a clue. Not a special guy who can fly around a room or beams of light shooting from his head. His knowledge about the bible is far greater than the average Christian. Christians go to him for a direct line to God. My brother and God put their client on hold for a very long time. Then often answers them with, ... you must have faith in God.
Sorry that is not good enough.
Germany was heavily a Christian nation like the US. With :God is with US: on the Nazis troops belt buckles. Hilter was born and died a Catholic member. Hitler promise to stomp out atheism, and did killed 15 million Soviets. He hated atheist more than the Jews.
World war 1 and two were funded both sides of the wars by the Zionist Rothschilds, partly to create falsely their homeland in Isreal drawn up by Winton Churchill that ended the British empire then the US empire boomed.
Today Rothschilds own 80℅ of Isreal and owns the US which tools them by Religion again. The banks and state scripted against us to control us and own us. Look at the countries at war either it's about oil Rockefellers Zionists or about countries refusal of Centro banking Rothschilds Zionist.
Blacks in the US were slaves for 350 years, said to be soul less. Outlawed to read, because if they could read the Bible. As it was written, all men are created equal. That is why Nationaism is more dangerous than Religion, yet Religion always merges with politics and military. The US congress is 99℅ Judeo/Christians. What war do you hear call out, in the name of Atheism. The condition in the Bible are impossible to have war., Meaning there are far too many hippocrites use Religion to sell their BS.
The longest lasting marriage between any same race or interracial marriage is between a white man and a black woman. Give me your black women, we will have an excellent time together. Lol.
Hopefully, reason will always help us counter and control unbridled feelings and emotions.
How do you think reason will counter "Faith" and "New Age" thinking?
Blind faith is what is preached by many religions.They tell their adherents/followers to believe in the Unseen.Reasoned faith is based on evidence.I think that ultimately Reason will triumph over blind Faith.
Here, I define Reason as the ability and capacity of a rational man to make informed decisions based on logical, creative and critical thought.Faith is belief in the Unseen.
Erudite, “Belief in the unseen” - like belief in gravity, or faith in radio waves ... or faith in God?
As I said reason results in faith no matter how you look at it. Unreasoned ‘faith’ isn’t faith at all but a wish. Also every reasoning is based on faith in the reasoning used or that came before.
Then there is faulty reasoning which is the result of reasoning with incomplete evidence or false assumptions which were the result of reasoning.
You see you can’t just say what will triumph, reason or faith! As Paul K Francis said “faith and reason do not have to be at odds”
I believe Nature is evidence of God, God in manifestation.
Is my belief based on reason?
No, belief is based on faith not reason.
Yes, blind faith, at that. How can be faithful to only one true God, when thousands of Gods claiming the same.
Everything has a reason, unless their is the absence of reason, you have evil.
Faith with some reason, could be from a powerful subconscious idea. Which I have banked on many times in the pass by working it.
Only if "reason" includes rationalizing whatever you want to believe.
@wilderness its hard to rationalize faith using reason.
Not at all. One has only to build a scenario that is self-consistent and declare that it must be true because it works. When only reason, not observation or testing, is used to make that construct it is quite easy.
When it does works in your imagination, you are most of the way there, then working it physically into a reality.
Having faith in your self.
A great many such constructs work very well in reality...as long as that reality is carefully limited to specific conditions and events that do not support the constructed scenario are carefully hiddin from view.
Reason can not replace Faith and vice versa.Thinking in those lines is just a fallacy that will lead you astray.
I am saying reasoning is secondary yet always backing up leading with the heart. I base most of my waking hours of my life loving what I do, as a sculptor. It has never lead me astray from freedom, health and love, that I can bank my faith. Where people I love them yet sometimes they drive me nuts.
Faith can be a gut feeling from my imagination. As everything in my entire life achievements and also for mankinds history, was all once imagined first. Even God was imagined, not the best idea, considering all It's flaws, contradiction and conflicts.
@Castle this is an interesting observation.
Hi, castle, I can agree with you on the first paragraph. But as to the later, if God is imagined, that idea as a sculptor is not actually real. You can not imagine what God is like? Can you? You can only give the benefit of your opinion of mind as to what God is like. Thank you.
Your question seems to have reference to what happened at the French Revolution with the so-called “Cult of Reason.” Yes?
Anyway, faith and reason should dwell together harmoniously. Yes, some truths of the faith are full of mystery but that doesn’t mean that we let go of reason. “It’s beyond me, so I simply believe.” No, we use our reasoning abilities to perceive something of the mystery even if we can’t swallow the whole in one bite.
Erudite Scholar said:
"Reason counters faith when men believe they can be God (and yet exist) without Him."
"Faith is dying a slow but sure death."
- Faith in God (through reading the scriptures of The Bible and believing in Jesus as son of God) is no longer shared with our children, and God is not worshipped in our homes, communities or churches.
"People no longer believe in / have faith in God."
- We will suffer the consequences, for sure.
"They believe in worldly material things."
- People, these days, only believe what they see with their five senses.
He asks: "Why not believe in God through faith, (through reading the Bible)?
- Its actually a good question.
I believed in God, through faith.
Then, I stopped believing in God through faith alone.
I wanted to believe in God, using reason ...
And I found God again.
God is Love
God is logic
There is nothing bad about God.
God is infinitely small and infinitely huge
God is unfathomable.
Evidence of God is all there is.
I am evidence of God.
He is behind the scenes in matter
And exists as life force.
See? Reason, when rightly applied, is not so bad!
I’m going by his first question, “Will reason triumph over faith?” He has not defined what exactly he means by these terms. Faith without reason is watery faith, with no substance. He says, “No, belief is based on faith not reason.” I disagree with this understanding. After all, doesn’t a believer read the Bible and make connections and inferences? That’s using one’s reason.
@Kathryn The Illuminati philosophy contends that Man can be God - without God.They want to use Reason to become 'Enlightened beings'.
They argue that Satan freed man and activated his hidden ability to think.Thought was previously thought to be a reserve of the gods.The fruit that they ate in the Garden of Eden was supposed to 'Enlighten' man.He fell instead.
Faith is based on hope of better things in the future.They Illuminists want to use Reason to usher in a New World Order based only on Reason and not Faith.
I'm all for Enlightenment, Reason, AND Faith, thank you very much.
What have you heard or read as far a what the illuminati want us to believe? How are they doing this?
The Illuminati are using mass media and popular culture to indoctrinate humanity into their philosophy. Celebrities and political leaders are being used as pawns in the game.Do not believe everything that you read or hear in the news.Propaganda is being touted as the truth.They want man to turn away from God.They want to abolish religion, government and the family unit. Enlightenment is about man becoming like God.
If I want everyone to be a God, am I an Illuminati?.
I just want equal individualism. I don't any group to be abolished , just shrinked, so the people control them rather than the other way round.
You are allowed to use words like Illuminati, satanism, scull and bones, Bilderberg, and many others to describe the powers to be.
You can't say Zionist, or your career or life can or will be taken from you.
You can't say it because Isreal Zionist controls the US. The US congress of made up as 99℅ Christians/Judeo groups. Media/ entertainment/ are scripted to control your mind.
From 200,000 years of man, God, military and politics have taken control since 4500 BC as OT then later NT work together. Or other parts of the world had their own system. As you see heirachary empires kill more innocent people than any group in world history. After 6500 years of hit on the head lessons, people don't get it, heirachary dose not work.
Yeah thats all true.I am just advocating for my freedom to think and make decisions without undue influence being exerted by any government, group or individual.I want to express myself without being bogged down by any form of dogma.
Unfortunately logic has been proven by math to be always fallible. See Godel's "incompleteness theorem" which the late Stephen Hawking supported.
Logic and reason have limits, yet to say logic by math is always fallible, makes nonsense.
My imagination has no limits to where I want to go in life. I'm able to envision Hawking's big bang theory, in which opens up more doors for greater exploration.
I envision more doors closing to repeat the biblical bronze age.
I agree with you Oz, logic has its limit.There are certain problems that can not be solved by relying on reason only.
@Castle Reason and logic are different.Reason is the ability to think in a coherent manner while logic is the systematic arrangement of those thoughts.Imagination has no limits whatsoever.
Can say, I lead with my heart and imagination shorty followed by my mind reasoning and logic.
Your heart can do no wrong. While our minds is the source of our problems. Go to the mind and find the problem, let your heart make the adjustment.
Erudite scholar, you respond rightly. Persons who are not actually "Right with God" based most of the thoughts on reasoning alone. That way too many problems arise in the world. It seems the only solution to the issue is to align the mind with the heart. Thank you.
Hey, castlepaloma, very interesting again. The discussion focus on faith and reason. However, I understand your argument. Let's just concentrated on faith v. reason and be reasonable. Christians in the middle age have embarked on a holy war called the crusaders. The same thing can be said of the Moslem. Now, atheism, as you opined, has not favor war? If you read ancient history before the coming of either Christianity you will find lost ot them. Should I give you my black woman? Good. You should also in exchange give me your white woman. This is a idea concept of African custom. Thank you.
The absence of reason, would be evil. The Government politics don't act with the same higher degree of consciousness as you or me or even most people. My faith is in the people.. That is why the Heirachary systems do not work well for the individual anymore.
I would be happy to trade a spoil white woman for a powerful black woman. I must warn you, they are the highest maintenance ever and on your African wages, it can ruin you.
by paarsurrey 11 years ago
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