What do you know about Mormons?

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jpop13posted 15 years ago
I have no religeon! I'm sure you do, but that is not the way. We are to have communion with Christ, it is to be bigger then any service.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're too serious !
  How boring !
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  About to log off, stuff to do, but is that true jpop? No religious affiliation. A non-churchgoing christian?
  
  Wouldn't that violate certain biblical instructions?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "....when you help the least you are serving me...
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Might want to look at the whole chapter. But its true, we are to help others but that is not a garantee to salvation.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry I'm wrong. I still love your company and I'll see ya around!
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Dont, no one is.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  salvation can come to a person in this lifetime.
  When it does come you automatically loose your desire to rob banks, kill people or hurt people in general.
  When salvation comes, helping others, love for your fellow man even when they are trying to hurt you, comes naturally.
  Ya caint explain it; ... It just is.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats is very true my friend, but salavtion can go just as it came.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that a lot of people get salvation and rewards confused. Rewards ya might loose; Salvation I think is a diffrent matter. If ya really ever get it, I don't think that ya will ever let go of it if ya could.
  I might be cleaning out out houses with a tea cup, but I think that I'm goina be in heaven likeing every second of cleaning them outhouses.
  Mother Tereasa ; she is goina be at the banquet table.
  And I'm goina be somewhere.
  Salvation is free.... Sittin at the table is a reward for good deeds served.
  Just my opinion.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats not what Jesus said. Salvation is free, but thats it, that is the reward, if your saved you will sit at table as you said. And you can loose Salvation, if you loose sight of the true christ you have lost it.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Cool! I've "lost it!"
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  earnest, you haven't lost "it" cause you're still interested in screwing "it". jeje
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Everything used to be free, until we organized!
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Obscure:
  lolol I can't do it.
  The level of intellect is so low in this room!
  I won't lower mine to match it...much too painful.
  Besides, I just ate dinner and don't want to lose it in this plastic walmart bag...:-)
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I concur!!! It is worse than I thought... Ha-ha!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah after reading some of the recent posts, I actually find myself wanting to defend mormons.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that rewards for good behaveior was ever free.
  They cost good behaveior. Salvation is free.
  To me that kinda gettin a free bus ticket.
  If ya get a mansion when ya get to heaven it is cause that is where ya stored up your treasures (rewards).
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I dont see were you get this idea that some are more saved then others, you either make it or you dont, the bus ticket is not free, if it were Christ would have no need to die on the cross! Our ONLY reward is that of salvation every one is equal in heaven as they are in hell. Just like no one sin is any worse then another neither is one is saved over another.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  So telling a lie is just as bad as killing someone?
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, Jerami. I went to the wrong room. I thought I was in a 'call-girl' shout-out room full of degenerates. Wrong thread... oops! Y'all carry on and ignore me & qwark. We thought we was about to make bids on prostitutes. Once again, wrong chat room... Please forgive us, fellow mormons......
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
38As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
41"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed.[a] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.",
Communion over any service. by the way this is luck chapter 10.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Good Samaritan.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
O I go to church, but its not more important then my personal communion with the lord.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What makes you think Sneako doesn't have a "personal communion with the lord"?
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
To jpop13 and others who may have missed some references found in the Book of Mormon, concerning salvation and having to work for it or not:
2 Nephi 2: 4 “And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.”
2 Nephi 26: 27 “Hath he commanded any that they should not partake of his salvation? Behold I say unto you, Nay; but he hath given it free for all men; and he hath commanded his people that they should persuade all men to repentance.”
Peace.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Book of Mormon holds no wait in the eye of a true christian. Find in the bible were it says slavation was not payed for by the blood of christ on the cross.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure buddy. Go read a book.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  by the way if your black the orignal printing of the Book of Mormon says that your cursed. lol.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We agree with you.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Oh dear! We seem to be back to the "my god!" No it's "My god" argument again! I need some popcorn for this!
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you add the butter!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I guess we shouldn't tell them that they're flailing at windmills.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well it didn't work with that other guy!
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
Wow, really, how can you have a personal communion with Christ if you dont know who he is? I think I have pointed out the many of the differances of the Book of Mormon christ and the true Christ of the bible. Please if you want more info just go and read what I have already written here or just check out mu HUB, mormons the great deception.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, jpop, indeed, you have fought valiantly.
  
  Welcome to Hubpages...
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some welcoming lol. Thank you I like your hub on corporations buying too much power. I did'nt think I would be this hooked on here. LOL, its more like Hub Crack.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, you read my hub, I am flattered. Thank you. Old news now, of course. I gotta leave political stuff alone, it doesn't pay.
  
  Yes, forums can be very addicting.
  
  Sneako's a really good guy. Kind of annoying at times, but aren't we all? I don't think you should judge people entirely by what they believe.
  
  Stick around. I've been enjoying it here, and have found that most of the people here are alright, or even better! I've been learning alot from the different viewpoints.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I must apologize if I came off as "judging" I was not, I was mearly pointing out that the mormon faith is just that mormon not christian I dont think its judging if you use what is the standard for determining if one is or is not a christian.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It always have been. The term "Mormons" is a quick term that the rest of the world placed upon us in response to the disgust they had for the translation of the Bible's companion, The Book of Mormon. Understanding the imagery of Ezekiel is key in this point of connection. The "standard" that you refer to, correct me if I'm wrong, is the Bible. I think that's what you are referring to as determining if one is a Christian. If so, we whole-heartedly study the Bible every bit as much as we do the other canons. In fact, if you look at the format of our scriptures, all passages are footnoted and cross-referenced with the Bible, and vice versa. It is a key principle to our faith to understand how the different records coincide with one another, as Ezekiel tries to tell us.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  funny you say that , GP. Like 'Christians' were titled by pagans.
  Well stated.
  
  for it all -though you know I repulse any organized theology- first, not one has presented themselves so clearly here, second one that is willing to view the points with an assured mind and respectfully reply. Lastly, I know many an LDS who have great faith beyond Joe Smith or any other epoxy. Kudos my man, kudos.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Golden Path you have just told a lie, THE LDS was not always called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, as a matter of fact Joseph Smith him self mocked christianity, he considered the LDS a non christian institution, I think you should go and read up on your history.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you are so negative towards us but we we're given free agency, you've exercised yours ane we exercised ours. If you came to our church and met the members you would be very surprised we are just like any other Christians.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  O but I have. And you are like christians. But you are not, you claim that we can all be gods and that is not true. Also most of the lies told my Joseph Smith have been proven wrong through history, like the Dead sea scrolls, funny how they were unearthed in the 1940's in eyqpt and translated to nothing like what Smith claimed.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
I am not attacking the mormon faith, I am only attacking the idea that it is a Christian faith. A mathematician that thinks 1+1=3 is no mathematician.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Right. Isn't it 1+1+1=1?
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What? Dont you meen 1*1*1=3 which is the trinity. By the way I usually dont push religeon on to others but I cant stand it when some claims to be some thing their not, like George W. Bush would claim to be a fiscal conservative when he was'nt, and I'm not talking about the cost of the wars either.
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goldenpathposted 15 years ago
Well, I wish to thank Timothy Donnelly for his inspired suggestion for me. It was his suggestion that when placed up against the ropes by those who choose to scoff, that I should take a breather from the thread. I've done so for several hours now. It feels better. I just got back from some extensive service work at a rest home some ninety miles from my home. It was most humbling for all involved. It provided the necessary boost for me to withstand the darkness that wages against me and my faith, much less here than out in real life. Thanks Donnelly for your well-intended suggestion.

Taking a breather for a while and then taking a look at the thread progression can have a new perspective affect on a reader. Understanding the psychology of people is a daunting task. So, when in these types of situations I must rely on my own experience in counseling and interviewing people over the past almost twenty years now. My thoughts and conviction to the gospel of Jesus Christ have not changed. My testimony continues to deepen as I continue to study the Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants. Of course, this is not mentioning the scores of other records, documents and other ancient works that continue to intrigue me.

We believe in Jesus Christ. The name of the Church bears that out. He is at the head, again as the name of the Church bears out. All Christian sects differ on various points of doctrine, but the basic premise that we uphold Jesus Christ as the head of the Church, itself, qualifies us as Christians. It matters not how disgusted anyone is with details of our doctrine, or even how you view the Church's beginnings or dealings. It matters not and will not sway the devout Latter-day Saint.

Think.... That is really what it comes down to, isn't it. That is the only design of the backlash. There can be no other reason for it from a logical point of view. It is the mission to destroy the faith and testimony of the Latter-day Saints. Why? For what reason, logically, would anyone attempt to provide such rankor. If no one cares for our belief, why not leave it alone? What drives the heart to prompt one to impale someone else's heart with darts of viciousness? Why? It makes no sense. It should provide pause in the hearts of all who read this thread. No other faith on the planet receives as much ridicule as ours. Why?............ We believe in Jesus Christ, as other do. We provide humanitarian services all around the world, as others do. We have a deep love and concern for all life, as other do. Amidst all the positive attributes displayed, as in other faiths, why is it that ours gets disected the most? Ponder that in your hearts a while before you scurry to the keyboard to sling more mud. Ponder it. Why?

I am not discouraged, but intrigued. The character display, and the accompanied intensity, is in fulfillment of all that we've been taught. Not just by Joseph Smith, but rather by the prophets of old. We need no be discouraged at the tempests of the sea tossing our ships, for if we have the sails risen upon the masts with the banners of faith, repentance, works, charity, love, hope, organization, chastity, temple work, hope, priesthood, obedience, family, prayer and always keeping in mind the largest sail at the base of the deck - that being God, the Eternal Father, working in concert, we shall rise above it and weather the storm. There is no other way. For all Latter-day Saints out there as well as "X" Latter-day Saints, we all have been given the knowledge and the keys to our own personal progress and the firming up of our integrity. Now is the time to choose your path. Is your heart darkened from that which, at one time, lit up the heart with hope? Find it and grasp hold of it. It is vital for all human beings, of all beliefs, to have an anchor, goal or lifeline with which you are tied to. Without it you are at the mercy of the rough seas.

It matters not what faith you are. No conversion takes place on a forum. Whatever you believe in, believe in it! Study it in depth and apply it. Gain a testimony of it. Without a testimony of whatever you believe in, you will not be able to withstand what's coming. The scriptural passage stating, "men's hearts will fail them", is here and now. Don't go there, but rise above it.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well I guesse you have not studied the teachings of the LDS and compared then to the bible. I will ask once more are or are you not a christian, and if so that would mean that you must reject all the teaching of the LDS for they are clearly anti biblical and you are not the brother of Christ, you are his creation and nothing more.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please don't go there. Don't start comparing credentials of study with me as so many in here always do. It is mute and for not. If you read my post, we are Christians. There are no contradictions if one truly studies. All the scriptural canons that we support complement one another, plain and simple. I will not entertain the disection of doctrines that you or anyone else can claim as a "gotcha" against me or any Latter-day Saint. It's an incorrect practice when one does not want to learn. It is a disgrace to true doctrine to keep explaining to people who choose, with their accusations, to remain a deaf ear.
  
  I respect your liberty, right and freedom of agency and ability to choose your path. It's a beauty to have this freedom! Please, as a human being, respect my liberty as well. I don't accuse you, so don't come here and accuse me, please. To do so will only grow the list of those who have no tolerance in this world and believe that not all beliefs have a right to exist.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do not have the right to call your self what you are not, and you are pissing me off to the point were I will simply shatter your faith completely. I was not attacking the mormon faith just the fact that you try AND PASS YOUR SELFS OFF AS CHRISTIANS.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  GP may I suggest that you ignore him for now?
  
  I am prepared to be civil.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thank you for the civility you have shown in your posts over night. That's the level playing field I am talking about when I discuss tolerance. I may come across as an "oh poor me" as has sarcastically been suggested, but it's not. It simply means that there are those who purposely set out to not be on such a nuetral field. That is apparent. Hopefully we all grew up knowing how to be civil and respectful to one another. If not, I am sorry, but that's called maturity. I will not name names, but it is prevalent that intolerance rules here.
  
  No, you have not shown up at my door, but you would be surprised at how many do who share the exact same kinds of sarcasm and intolerance as has been demonstrated here.
  
  So, I'll tell you what. I will try to better understand the tone and selected words used against me and my faith if you all attempt to do the same. It would be my educated guess that all but perhaps one or two would decline simply because of pride. They feel they have all the answers and would continue to fuel the fires.
  
  Someone over night quoted me about "putting us on a cross and dancing around the fire like the heathens of old." I stand by that statement. If someone were to make a crack comment once or twice, I wouldn't think twice about it. However, there are those who are consistent in their light-hearted, yet disgust-ridden, comments every time I post. That - is what I refer to, and that is, by definition - intolerance.
  
  These are modern times. The modes of tar and feathers has mutated and taken on other various forms. Though not as graphic, the avenues attempt to strip the integrity and foundation of the individual.
  
  IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: I now admit that perhaps I do, in some way, provoke the attacks against me. I'll tell you how. Anger is only succored with reciprocated anger. Since I will not, and have not, stooped to such a level I can see how that would anger people. That level is of the mires and is not befitting a mature individual. On my part is shows that I am not waivering in my position, and that angers them. Through a response of pure anger - only then would they feel important and productive in their missions. So, from that standpoint I can see how some claim that I provoke the attacks against myself. Boy - shame on me for standing my ground.
  
  It's not a big deal to me, really. It is just interesting how I never ask or comment on their beliefs. I've never asked what church they go to. I've never asked if they are atheist or even wear flowers in their hair. All posts and comments have been in defense of only two things - understanding and tolerance. This cannot be disputed. I have now offered hundreds of posts without even discussing my doctrines, but rather the promotion of understanding and tolerance. And for that - they think and perceive it as my attack on them.
  
  This cannot be disputed, but I'm sure they will try over the next several hours while I'm gone.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Aww sweetie pie - you have made it perfectly clear that you are not interested in respecting any one else ad merely insist that they respect your right to attack them as you see fit. Yet you demand respect yourself. Why is that?
  
  How incredibly intolerant of you. I had not realized quite how aggressive and hateful Mormons were until I met you. And the wonderful passive aggressive nature of your attacks is astounding. This is classic. Wonderful.
  Thanks for educating me, you poor, poor, downtrodden, persecuted baby you. Would you like me to stop dancing around your corpse that is nailed to a cross now?
  
  Next time you make reference to me - at least try and be civil. I appreciated this will be difficult for you. I will never stoop to the dishonest nature of your attacks and will always be honest. I accept that this will anger you and cause you to attack me in this fashion, but still.....
  
  Thank you.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you don't attack anybody ?
  Really ?
  
  Oh boy !!!!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  jpop,
  
  Sweety, people can call themselves whatever they like, really. I understand your position to the extent that you feel mormonism has produced a counterfeit version of christianity. But heck when you get right down to it, so did the christian church.
  
  The mainstream christian tenets don't come from the bible, or from christ, they come from agreed upon interpretations of the agreed upon texts. That's it.
  
  Thomas Jefferson rejected all of that and called himself a christian. Sects find new interpretations and break off and still call themselves christians. Many people who reject a good deal of mainstream christian doctrine and a fair amount of the bible call themselves christian "in the only way that Christ ever intended" to probably loosely quote Jefferson.
  
  May I ask what specific church you attend? I suggest you plead the fifth, because anything you say can and likely will be used against you.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I attend multiple churches, I was born Catholic, but after reading and studying the text of the bible I have questioned some of their teachings, I also attend a non denominational New Testament Church, I attend Baptist services along Methodist ones but I say I most identify my self with the Born again movement. So please feel free to judge. Also Tomas Jefferson believed in Christ, what he questioned were some of the miracles. As a matter of fact the very first line of the declaration of independence clearly point to his strong rooted faith in GOD and that we were all created equal.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thomas Jefferson believed Jesus was a man. He did not believe in christianity or any of its doctrines.
  
  Oh you're a born again christian? Me, too!
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not quite, you see I dont like to place a label over my head, I simply believe in the Bible and it teachings, I'm only 20 and yes I am very young, but you would be surprised how many different church leaders ask me to come to their churches and lead a sermon. I was once asked my the LDS and they said that I was wrong in my interpretations of the Bible, well funny thing is that I got at least 10 people to walk away from their lies.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Also you do know Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible. He only took out some of the miracles.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, you don't respect it, you'll be banging on his door to try and convert him, just like you do everyone else. That isn't respect, fyi.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  jpop-
  Have YOU compared Biblical teachings with LDS teachings? How do they contradict?
  Mark Knowles obviously was following goldenpath.
  I wonder what caused the change of heart for Pandoras Box.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose you are not going to address the points that came up earlier. That is fine, we will let it pass.
  
  I would like to point out though that I really truly think you are a bit ...well let's just say off, when it comes to why people question and yes ridicule your religion.
  
  First of all, all the religions are persecuted, and all the religious books for the Big Three from the OT on contain emphatic warnings that their believers will be persecuted. It is not significant that your religion is persecuted. That doesn't make it truer. Surely you can agree with that? It's very reasonable. Persecution is not exclusive to LDS, all the Big Three have scriptural warnings about it, and when such happens, it does not make the belief systems any truer themselves any truer. You agree?
  
  Any strengthening of your personal faith due to persecution is no more significant than the strengthening of the muslim's faith due to his/her persecution. You can see that, right?
  
  Let's just leave that much for this post. I'll start a new post for my next point of discussion.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It'll have to be next time. It's bed time and a big day for me tomorrow. No, persecution is not exclusive to us and I never stated such. However, it is more intense with us. Unfortunately, the only ones who can see it are the ones on the receiving end of it.
  
  No, I do not intend to answer any questions that are not presented respectfully and with real sincerity of learning. To do so continually with those who choose not to be tolerant is a mishandling of the gospel and it's purity. In affect, it plays right into the Adversary's hand and that's not where God wants us to go. Peace - not contention, is what He desires for all of us.
  
  Have a wonderful night!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that you in that picture?
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Psychology has nothing to do with your beliefs in myths and superstitions. Please don't insult psychologists in this manner.
  
  Hypocrite. Stop going door to door selling your religion. Stop being evangelists. Stop spreading the word. Then, you might be left alone.
  
  Of course it makes no sense to you, you are the perpetrator and feel that it is your duty and responsibility to spread the word and convert others. You are clueless in this regard.
  
  So do secular organizations, so you can stop using that as an argument. Besides, the secular organizations are primarily for humanitarian purposes while the LDS has an agenda to recruit members They also pour billions into bad business decisions. Big difference, pal.
  
  Yeah, why don't you take the time to ponder things for a while? You are the last one here to take your own advice.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
Hey everyone. long time no see.

Subject- I have a lot of mormon friends. I think that their work and family ethics are spot on. I do not believe what they believe but I don't identify any salvation issues as in many other religions other than keeping the 7th day holy.
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doups3posted 15 years ago
Hey Everyone,

This topic caught my eye and distracted me as I was trying to post a hub about accounting. HubPages is really good at distracting me from my work; I spent about 30 minutes reading comments (wasting time hehe).

I'm a BYU (LDS Private Church, similar Notre Dame) student and it is really nice to read some outside perspectives. I've really appreciated the positive tone and I compliment people for learning a little more about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Brother thats a good looking boy!
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
No, evan the texts the LDS approve of disprove its own validity. I'm sorry your too blind to see the clear cut differances between christian cannon, the bible and nothing more then the cult like teaching of poligimist such as Josph Smith. By the way Lihi is fake and his telling of what he saw are false, one clear example now that I noticed is how Lihi speaks of horses in the americas, false its impossible that he saw horse's here hundreds of years before they were brought over by Spanish settlers, lol. Another statement proved wrong by history I just thought of is the steel rod of Lihi, impossible b/c their was no steel at the time, as a matter of fact it came about hundreds of years after the setting of the story. And considering no one can see the face of God Joseph Smith is a liar and a false prophet. If Moses the most important man after christ could not see the face of God I doubt a liar like Smith could, and have you heard of how Smith had the dead sea scrolls, well lets just say that also a lie by Joseph smith because they were actually uncovered in the 1940's. lol. Learn your history at least and you wont even need the Bible to prove and expose Joseph Smith and his false gospol wrong.
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See what contention can do to the heart people? This is how the virus erupts. Intolerance is spread through this channel. People, can you not see this? Look and ponder what it does. I will not entertain these accusations with an answer. I won't do it. Yes, I have answers to all of them but will only serve to have all of you explain it away through alternate perceptions. The answers are quite simple. People, get off the doctrine trip! The gospel has been instilled into the fabric of humanity because of it's simplicity to understand. That is the very part of why there is so much contention. It is so simple that everyone either thinks they are right and/or condemns the next guy because they think they are wrong. People, see it! Pride is the vice of destruction. Do you not see it in the very words of your accusations? Pride! It is all too common that the accusers here look at something so superficially and think they know the entirity of it. How obtuse and not well-rounded the understanding can be. If you have a legitimate question go and ask an active Latter-day Saint. Be smarter than to go to or stumble across the rambling of one who has dissented from the Church. Nine times out of ten their perceptions are born out of pride and someone else offending them in a brief moment of conversation. They lacked the faith to stick it out and learn for their own benefit. Be smarter than that people. Come on! Be adult and understanding. Try, for the sake of peace, try to look at the world from a different perspective.
  
  Yes, our perspectives are different. Why? It is because a devout Latter-day Saint chooses to look at the world around them through the lens of the gospel understanding. Through that lens we see the meaning of the people and events around us in a very different manner than most. Through the lens of the gospel one is able to discern the "whys" of the world. Through the lens of the gospel one is able to see the deeper meaning and active workings of Jesus Christ in the world. It is not my way to say "wake up" and "believe this or that". However, it is my mission here to continue to impress upon all who read, to advocate and practice understanding and tolerance. Only through that can you grow as a person. It's the only way. Without it the walls of pride will devour you as the beasts of the field.
  
  It's late and I must retire for the evening. Please, ponder and show a little consideration in all your accusations. People, all, I consider you precious in the sight of God. He will have a hard time accepting us, if we cannot learn to live one with another through understanding and tolerance.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we observe your intolerance, ponder it and can see what it does.
  
  Do you not see the intolerance in your words? Intolerance!
  
  Nonsense, they have every right to opinion as any other, they also have the experience of being an LDS member. You are most likely telling us to stay away from them lest they reveal something.
  
  Ah yes, the passive-aggressive hypocrite attacks. Right on time, too.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  jpop-
  I couldn't pay attention to what you were saying because of your spelling.
  goldenpath-
  I agree, you must go to the source. One will not find answers with someone who is against our teachings.
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iantoPFposted 15 years ago
Timothy; I noticed you are back in the thread. I want to thank you for the reply you gave regarding that "Missing Article' in the Doctrine and Covenants. The link you provided me was very interesting and certainly explains some inconsistencies. I appreciate that very much.

Pandora's Box is absolutely right. The various passages from the Bible have been argued over almost since they were written. To call someone a non-christian just because they do not follow one definition or reach the same conclusion is a very narrow assessment. Not one followed by the world at large. I have noticed that Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses and other less well known groups are also referred to as not being christian. In fact anyone who agrees with the notion that Jesus Christ is the son of God and whose death was arranged for the salvation of mankind must be called christian. Though they may disagree on most other points.
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
The whole purpose of religion
is to facilitate love and compassion, patience,
tolerance, humility, forgiveness.

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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  No, it's not, you big silly.
  
  The whole purpose is to get to heaven!
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Every religion has different goals. The goal of Christianity is salvation. The goal of Islam is submission. The goal of Buddhism is nirvana
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
Hello? Where did everybody go? Do I stink?
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  china manposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - simple truth, real peace and especially love stinks in these religious threads
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Pandoras Boxposted 15 years ago
GP,

The second point that I would like for us to agree on is the definition of persecution. And also the level of persecution which might reasonably be complained about.

If you are being harassed in a manner that is designed to cause you grief, than that qualifies as persecution. I know this to be true because I just looked it up.

The problem is that I don't think most of us intend to cause you grief. Or to harass you at all. That is certainly not my intention, and I hope that you can understand that when you participate in a public forum on subjects of a controversial nature people are going to address things you say. It is not their intent to harass you. It is their intent to address what is said. Even for example Q I believe it is who still brings up your comments about starving children, I don't think he is intending to harass you, he's just trying to get you to understand that when you say things like that it's an offensive reflection of your religion. I think. I could be wrong, maybe he's trying to harass you. And I'll grant you that jpop seems to have an axe to grind, as I'm sure do other christians.

But most of us ARE NOT intentionally harassing you, if you are harassed by discussions you shouldn't be here. Seriously. People who can not tolerate having other people disagree with them really shouldn't participate in discussion forums. I am not saying you cannot tolerate such, I have seen you tolerate such, and in your best gracious style as well.

Can you not agree that MOST OF US -including us pain in the butt nonbelievers- are not intending to harass you?

Your particular subject matter is very controversial. When you speak about it in a public forum you should expect alot of feedback. Naturally alot of that feedback will be negative. That doesn't qualify as harassment. You agree?

Okay, so some times some of us say things which might be considered mean. It happens. I'm not perfect and neither are you. So there you maybe have an intent to cause grief. But not really. We don't intend to cause you grief, not like serious grief anyway. But I guess it can be a bit of a feedback overload when you're in the minority.

However, that's not our fault. We're not harassing you with intent to cause you grief. We're just discussing something and sometimes some of us say things in a way which may be somewhat grievous to you.

Sometimes we will throw your words back in your face in an attempt to make you realize what you've just said, which may have in fact been grievous to us, to make you realize that your beliefs are offensive, or we feel harmful to society. We're not trying to hurt your feelings, we're trying to get you -or others- to see our point of view.

Okay so you get that right? None of us, or at the very least MOST OF US are not technically harassing you, or intending to cause you real grief. Since your beliefs are involved, you may feel real grief, but it is not our intent.

I hope you can agree with all of this, and subsequently with the conclusion that therefore none of us -or again MOST OF US including us pain in the butt, sharp-witted nonbelievers, are actually persecuting you, right?

That said, I in return agree that since your beliefs are involved which will I guess make you extra sensitive, and since you are in the minority, I will make an extra effort to tone down my naturally sharp-witted responses to you, and others of your ilk, especially when there are several others responding to you negatively, unless I become like really highly annoyed. Cause after all neither of us are perfect.

But again, keep in mind, that negative feedback does not qualify as intent to cause you grief, harassment, or persecution, right? I will continue to give you negative feedback I am sure, but I will make a real effort to tone it down.

Um.. Okay yeah. I grant you that perhaps a very tiny few may thoughtlessly and unrelentingly cause you grief. Perhaps not intending to do so, but nonetheless, these one or two people may make you FEEL persecuted. I even grant that I may have done so. I am ...tenacious. But most people here aren't.

Again, even though we are tenacious, we do not mean to cause you grief, and I'm 99% sure that applies to about 99% of us.

So can you agree with all of this? Do you agree that 99% of us -us being the regular forum contributors, one of which I have now apparently become- have no intent to harass you, cause you grief, or persecute you?

Maybe you didn't feel that way before, but perhaps now you can see that it is so. If so, perhaps you can also see how annoying and offensive it is to us when you cry persecution. Because it really is annoying and offensive.

None of us wish to be called persecutors, I am 99% sure. Yes, I hate religion and consider it a detriment to society, however, I would never wish to be guilty of religious persecution.

I have -believe it or not- a very high respect for the principle of religious freedom. Again, this is a public religious forum, we are here to share our opinions, maybe learn from each other, and perhaps debate what is the best course of religious advancement (or not) in our world.

So if you can agree that MOST OF US are not actually persecuting you, and can see how it offends us when you say we are, then perhaps you could stow that particular can of beans, eh? That would I believe help to avoid much of the conflict. I think that when you accuse us in general of persecuting you, it brings out ridicule and perhaps the instinct to cause you grief back.

You can understand that, right?

Please let me know if there is anything in this post that you do not agree with.

I am sorry that this post is so long and in some areas repetitious.
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Daniel Carterposted 15 years ago
Chiming in a bit late with some reluctance, however, a couple of quick observations.

1. For any Christian to quickly proclaim that Mormons are not Christians, how can you in good conscience make such a knee-jerk statement knowing that Mormons believe in the atonement of the Savior, Jesus Christ? Does that not make you a hypocrite of sorts, esteeming your own brothers and sisters to be "heathens?" (It's rhetorical. I'm not going to read your answer. Your supposed to search your own heart on this one.)

2. Conservative Christians and Mormons have far more in common than either will admit. Usually when such family feuding happens, it's an indication of how closely related they are, not evidence of how far divided they are.

3. There isn't anything to discover in Mormonism that hasn't already been seemed weird about other Christian sects, to every other nonChristian in the world. Jesus walked on the water. He was born by immaculate conception. Really, are you not willing to see that these appear to be only fables to every nonChristian in the world? Makes Mormonism look tame in some regard.

So really, let he who is without sin cast the first.....um.....Oh hell, I forget.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let he who is without religious delusion cast the first stone?
  
  That'd be me!
  
  Just kidding, GP, don't take offense.
  
  Yeah, Daniel, I agree with what you're saying, even taking out the nonbeliever's viewpoint. It seems pretty hypocritical. Every single existing christian sect changed the rules and broke off from another. The originals don't even exist anymore.
  
  Don't take offense, jpop.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Goodness, man, don't tell them how alike they are! They might join forces politically and we'd all be doomed!
  
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Pandoras Boxposted 15 years ago
Okay point of discussion #3, GP. This will be a short one because I believe most of the same points from the persecution post can just be applied here.

Intolerance. You have, I believe, accused us of intolerance.

Have any of us shown up at your house with a bucket of tar and an old pillow or two? Have any of us suggested that your churches be closed and your books burned?

Yes, we ridicule your religion. It's a religious discussion forum. Some of us happen to find religion ridiculous. That doesn't mean we don't or won't tolerate you, or think that you should not be tolerated.

You can understand that, right? You can agree that when we question, disagree with, and yes sometimes ridicule your religion or anybody else's that it doesn't at all mean we are intolerant of you, right?

Again, it is offensive to us when you accuse us of religious intolerance.

Let me know please if you disagree with any of this. If there is something I'm missing here, please let me know.
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logic,commonsenseposted 15 years ago
According to HBO they are just like everyone else, except they have several wives. That must be where the saints part comes in!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Yep! I wake up every morning and think to myself.. "Now where can I find a religious fanatic to jump around!"
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
I prognosticate a future of fundies threatening the end of time till the end of time!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Earnest. I think you have prophet profitability. How are you doing today?
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blondepoetposted 15 years ago
They are super friendly guys in white shirts and black pants who ride bicycles to save fuel.
On a more serious note I don't discriminate against any religion, people are people to me.
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Daniel Carterposted 15 years ago
As a postscript,
I see clearly how similar Mormons are to most other conservative Christians. Their lies are just as unbelievable as any other religion's. But I don't see that other conservative Christians attacking them is a way of getting closer to God. What utter nonsense. All it says is how insecure those people are with themselves and their own twisted beliefs.

My family is filled with Mormons and other conservative Christians. I love them very much. I don't understand why they can't love each other when they pretend to be "God's elect." It only drives me further and further away from any religion. Which I think is the only sensible thing to do when surrounded with fundies: RUN!

The pot calling the kettle black is one of the most immature and commonplace things on the planet.

I do not, however, foresee anyone growing up any time soon.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I give up. Demanding that people treat you with respect while spouting the world's most ridiculous religion and calling others immature is just beyond me.
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Randy Godwinposted 15 years ago
I've been gone for a while so anything new? Did I miss the heathen dancin' and cross nailin'?

My father helped liberate some of the Jewish death camps during World War II. I respectfully disagree with the priest's statement about the LDS being the most persecuted cult of all. I do not believe 6,000,000 Mormons have been exterminated for their beliefs.

I realize this is intolerance on my part because I disagree with the priest.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't miss anything. The priest held out a fruitless olive branch while insulting people, some people made a few jokes which of course offended the humorless, I tried to be reasonable, and failed, and the priest admitted that everybody persecuted him because we were all mad that he was so constantly pleasant and likable.
  
  Oh yeah, and a mormon explained mormon racism.
  
  Did ya have fun fishing?
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How quaint and oversimplified......
  JIHAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Had a great time, PB! I see you tried to use reason in your posts with the priest. You probably found out this is the wrong approach to use. I do not wish to converse with anyone who acts as he does when someone asks a question he cannot answer.
  
  Gotta run for a while! Back later for more laughs.
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Lets see now, if I forget someone sorry. Well Q, Cags, Earnest, Mark and anyone else that can't be civil when disscussing religion you need to check yourselves. Golden has never attacked or insulted anyone and doesn't deserve the garbage you spew. You can go right back to your place at the center of your universe and be quiet. We don't need your non-sense you made your choice and we made ours and we aren't going to push our religion on you and we don't want your lunacy forced on us. So if it's beyond your capacity to be civil shut the hell up, thank you.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect, sneako, I have to disagree with you. GP is a very insulting person.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Golden has not only attacked me, but has questioned my heart, he has looked down and judged me and he has shown nothing but ignorance. You my friend have at least given what I have written some thought, that is all I ask. I do not what to come off as intolerant, but I can not accept the notion of some calling them selves what they are not.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We are Christians and thats a fact. We may not be in your eyes but that's your perception and not that of a Christian litmus test athority. You have some knowledge of our church but not enough or you purposely take things out of context and call it fact, please stop trying to make us feel bad about our church.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are not christians! And what I view you as does not matter, for it is the teachings of the Bible that expose your false doctrine to be so. I have never taken any thing out of fact and you have clearly shown to know very little of the Bible. If I can make one suggestion to you, please take time to get away from service to the LDS and study up on CHRIST, the one in the bible. If after that you still think that the LDS is right in its teaching that God was once man.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats another lie.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its a lie to ask you to read the bible? Please open your eyes to your own ignorance. LDS claims god came from another planet, were he was made a god! Thats is not the God of the Bible.!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He had done that with me as well !
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Many who have posted have not sincerely wanted to learn anything, just bash others.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
People do not be lied to Mormons are not conservative Christians, I dont see what you dont get, they do not believe in the christ of the bible. Thats is why they can not be considered christians, I like how I use no religous facts to show the mormons the errors of Joseph Smith and all they can do is question my heart and call me intolerant. Well I will always be intolerant to those that are ignorant to facts! Also for who ever said Catholics are less known, they are the largest christian denomination of the face of the earth, and for the greater part agree with the bible, while they do have some practices that are questionable they do not question the validity of God or Christ and do not claim the B.S, that the LDS does. Biggest one is that we can not be gods! In the Catholic faith you could be come a saint which is a person who exemplified christ and his purpose and stayed on the path of rightousness. Also they say the Holy Virgin Marry is the ultimate Symbol of Virtue, which most other christians say is Christ, but Christ cant be a symbol for he is Virtue. I do not agree with all Catholic doctrine but it is certainly more in line with the the bible and the true Christ, who does not come from another Planet that is named Kobolu, that by the way is the LDS teachings.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The bible says that you can become like God: ye are gods and all of you are children of the most high. Psalm 82, Be ye therefore perfect even as your father Matthew 5:48, Is it not written in your law .....Ye are Gods? John 10;34, We are the offspring of God Acts17:29, Heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ Rom 8:17,
  And when we see him we will be like him, changed to the same image from glory to glory; crowned with rightousness Etc. Etc. Etc.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again I have pointed out the errors in your interpretations of these texts. We are not the offspring or children of God. We are of the earth, we are only Gods creations and the Story of Creation as told in the old testament will back me up. And it Funny how God Gave His One and ONLY Son to the world! I believe it says it in your own Mormon approved King James Bible. LOL.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are speaking in half truths and you are a mean sprited person with a grudge. Why haven't you stated the name of your church? What are you gaining by this attack? Is this your best attempt at being Christ like? If you're that sure you're right, why even bother with us?
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I, have clearly told you I belong to no one church, Did christ belong to one church? I think not, and it nice to know that you have nothing left but to insult and slander others. That is when one knows that he has won.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you know that I'm being very civil with you I'm a contractor with a broad vocabulary and I have yet to draw on that vocabulary to adress you. If you think I've insulted you, you may want to rethink that.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Your speaking in half truths", just be honest about it, you called me a liar.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Read what I wrote, if I wanted to insult you I'm quite capable. Do you honestly believe your behavior here is what our Savior wants from you? If so you do pray to different God and it maybe the advisary.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I prey to the Christ of the bible, not the son of some man god that the LDS claims. I prey to my creator not my father. Again its funny you insult and slander people and claim to believe in what they believe but have no idea of your own faults. I will say it again, please read the bible, and learn history, it will all disprove every notion of the LDS.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I think your half-truths are just a sign of the fact that you still have alot to learn.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Answer the questions I asked, to include your church.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I did, just go up and read what I have written, its up this page. I wrote it already.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What did you win? Think carefully..
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This spout and drivel you are spewing is utter and complete irrational nonsense. If you want to know what Mormons believe, you DON'T ask someone who hates them. So you spouting off about what Mormons do and don't believe only amplifies and magnifies your own narrow mindedness and ignorance. If they say they believe in Christ, who are you to say otherwise? After all, you're not a Mormon so how would you possibly know?
  
  Hence, I rather agree with Mark Knowles and Earnest when it comes to such complete bastardization of anything that might approach goodness by the likes of such ultra-conservative Christians who spout such complete nonsense.
  
  Really. I hope one day you can find your grip on reality.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Amen.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
O and I would disagree with the notion that Mormons are not pushing their faith unto others, as long as you try and justify your selfs as christians that is nothing more then pushing your ignorance of the holy text unto others.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nobody said that we are not a Proslatyzing church, but The bible says to spread the word so I would expect most of the other Christian denominations to do the same.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again you are not another Christian Denomination if you think that God was once a man! The God of the christian people is everlasting, one that has no end and no start.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You need to read what Mormons believe about the imortality of intelligence. We believe that intelligence is without begining and without end. therefore by definition, God has no begining and no end.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God is not simply intelligence, and you just exposed your self to not be a christian, God is all, God is everything you are and are not. Intelligence is not God, and vise versa. God is the alpha and omega. He is the question and the answer, he is the problem and the solution. God is all and God is nothing, no church or faith defines him. Only the Holy Bible, which he made clear to us.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  By getting half a dozen hate filled old men to select a bunch of stories out of hundreds, and build a way of controlling the ignorant?
  All old stories, stolen from thousands of years before, altered to suit a purpose.
  Then the church re-writes it again to suit it's purposes, and this you live your life by. A fairy that does nothing, has never been seen, has no proof to support it in 2000 years.
  
  The mind is a big place, a lot lurks in the sub-conscious. Study that and the "truth" will go away, to be replaced by real thinking and logic. Get yer brain back, it's on loan to a bunch of liars no matter which tome you choose to believe in.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please don't think that one can only be a Father and not also a Son. One can be in command and also not be the Highest Commander. The highest God is our Eternal Heavenly Father, as found in the Bible and elsewhere. He has created many children, as found in the Bible and elsewhere. We are HIs creation, and we can be His children, and what follows is that we can be both. Some say that Heavenly Father is a Spirit, this is true, as found in the Bible and elsewhere. This does not mean that He can not also be a personage of glorified flesh and bone. He is both, just as His Resurected Son IS, as found in the Bible and elsewhere.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The story of creation clearly state we are of the dust of the ground, not of the heavenly material of the father.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe, jpop13, you'd be better off replacing the word 'god' with the term 'unknown'...at least, in the event you did this, it would make some of that hogwash of yours...make a minuscule amount of sense for us uneducated ones. Ha-ha!
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
JW's are also false christians, they do fall in line with the mormon faith, they are not christians and claim a false gospal. I will beg you to please call your selves by another name for you are not in line with the bible.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure buddy, Go READ a Book.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How can you say that, we love our neighbors, we have kept the sabbath day holy, we are against all forms of wickedness just as prescribed in the bible, we are against all forms of drugs, alcohol, Tobacco, pornography and other vices that enslaves the human mind. We are against Murder, abortion, rape, and any immoral activity that defiles the holy temple which was created by God, we believe in God the Eternal father, and in his Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  We believe that men will be punished for their sins,
  
  We believe that the prinicples of salvation are, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, Baptism by immersion, and the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Ghost.
  
  We believe in Prophets, Apostles, Pastors, evangelists, Teachers, and soforth .
  All of the principles of the church fall in line with the principles of Christianity, the complete infrastructure of the church is setup exactly as the savior commanded from the tiths and fast offerings, to the church's heirarchy, to the consecration of time and abilities for the perfecting of the Saints, and the building up of God's kingdom on Earth.
  I can confidently say without reservatoin that we are Christians to the core.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
I will also state once again I am not attacking anyones faith, just the fact the Mormons are not in line with the Bible.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats not the truth.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
Mormons are christians, as are JW and Baptists and Protestants, Evangelists, Catholics and so forth
Christians Believe in Christ.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mormons believe christ to be the son of some man god! They also claim that their are more then one god, and they claim that we have a "spirit mother". WTF I think the Bible might have some thing against these claims.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
just curious, what exactly does the 'bible' have to do with Mormon.

jpop13, you are good at quoting the 'book' chapter and verse but not living even a single shred of it -like all other 'Christians'. I guess the roman/pagan title fits.

Perhaps when all the "but brother, the bible says..."
quoting, name-it, claim-it, soft music, alter call, propaganda, hoo-haa, ends the believers might actually get a clue.

Y`shua did the work, and millions of you are expecting Him to still do YOUR work and come back to do it again. Meantime both sides beating up on the other -for what? it only proves division and gives a foothold to the {already defeated} Satan you folks are wielding a paper mache sword at.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. " (John 14:6 ) Belief in the real Jesus Christ is the only way a man can receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life. The LDS church in presenting a false Christ is, in fact, leading souls away from salvation and the real Jesus. They reject God's truth and substitute another Jesus who does not exist and cannot save. Only those who believe in the biblical Jesus Christ will go to heaven when they die. Those who put their trust in a false Christ will be eternally lost. A Jesus that does not exist cannot save. Every true child of God knows this and that is why we try so hard to point men away from false churches, prophets, gods and Christ, that they may find God's true Son the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.
  
  Let God speak for Himself by His Word.
  
  Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christ, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. "
  "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. " (Acts 4:10-12)
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
  
  16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
  
  17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
  
  19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
  
  20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
  
  I can say without reservation that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a faith filled church, a church replete with the fullness of the Gospel. The constant work to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and provide assistance to the less fortunate in a variety of ways is a testimony of the very method which the Savior taught to the people during his mortal ministry to adhere to. Not by means of reason or sophistry but to teach by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you know that the LDS violates the fist verse. And christ thought us to have faith in him, that it will be only by the grace of god that we are saved not by any deed done on earth. For you can be the holiest of holy and still go to hell and non of your good works will ever make a differance. You dont have to do anything to be saved, salvation is free, it was paid off by the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, That he CHOOSE to give him self for us. We are to be good people because we choose to be, that is the message found in the story of Cain and Able Timsel, the word in hebrew translate's to may, You may over come sin, and it was never You shall, but you may. Its one of the many mistranslations of the King James version. Without this word we are slaves to a God that loves us, and because he loves us we are not.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'll say again, one of the tests to identify false prophets is by their fruits. Clearly Joseph Smith passes this challenge.
  
  As for the old faith versus works, No work will be done without faith and faith is not manifest without works. According to the scriptures, the two are synonymous, they are incomplete without oneanother, Mormons accept and live by this biblical standard, one is not more important than another. They are equal and cannot exist without eachother.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are NO prophets after Y`shua and none before!
  He is the Law & Prophets.
  
  focus people and stop with the 'book' nonsense.
  
  fyi: until the 17th century, there was no 'bible'.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The 17th century was when the King james version came out. The Bible was compiled in the 4th century.
  Read revelations it talks about latterday prophets.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  okay apparently, you don't understand either.
  thanks.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree there would be no need for Prophets after Jesus Christ. I can not disown the Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament/ Tora..... Jesus/ Y'shua was the main event. Fulfillment of prophesy and the law.
  If you are going to follow scripture you will see that it is written that; Jesus said that there will be many False prophets. He did not say to be careful that you can recognize a true prophet from the false ones. He only said that there will be many false prophets.
  Something to think about ??
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  exactly, Jerami, He fulfilled the law AND the prophets, hence the term 'false prophets'. Meaning beyond Him there is no prophecy.
  
  ps, how are you my friend?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm Much better today.. been resting .. How is yourself.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  good. rested a bit myself.
  but presently annoyed by some of these thread posts.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yea me too cause , I caint understand why no one can see that every denomination of Churches are blood sisters, and all the time saying my mother is more rightious than yours.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  jpop-
  If I were to go to Hell, I would much rather be around the people I know and love instead of the likes of you. We can tell everyone that we are "saved" all we want to. But we believe you must practice what you preach. How would you know if the teachings are false. Have you heard/studied any of the teachings? I get the feeling that you are too close-minded to know for yourself. You must have an open mind. What Jesus Christ taught was revolutionary in His time. What if His restored church was revolutionary at this time in the history of the world?
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
Hello everybody! My name is Troy McClure. You may remember me from such previous episodes as - aww what the heck, I haven’t had any real episodes yet. I’m just here now to say that I missed church services today because I slept in. Oh well, as long as I stay humble, then I should be able to receive a measure of the Spirit in order to relate to some people my testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. This gospel is available for scrutiny and examination online at www.scriptures.lds.org.
While I am not an expert in recalling or reciting, or even following these canonized works, I can truthfully bear my own personal HUMAN WITNESS that they are true, as far as they have been recorded CORRECTLY. I can say with conviction that they are made available to all mankind as a Divinely Inspired invitation to and record of our Creator’s birthright and ministry upon this Earth - in the East AND in the West. I swear that we do have our common Saviour as the head of our church, named after Him by instructory Revelation, and that we have a living Prophet on this earth today, that the heavens are open, that Our Eternal Father in Heaven loves us all, and that He has glorified His only begotten Son, who has accomplished the plan of Salvation, which was settled in the council of Heaven before the foundation of the world, and is available to us all, according to our faith in the LIVING Jesus Christ, the Messiah. This is my belief. Any failure on my part is to my own detriment, notwithstanding the Grace, Mercy, and Forgiveness of our Final Judge, who we, according to my beliefs, shall all kneel before with or without Jesus Christ as our advocate to the Father. This is my humble testimony to you’ all today, in the NAME of Jesus Christ, Amen.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you have not read the bible? You do not know the Christ of the Bible? I will only ask you to please read the holy text, If after you feel the same way fine.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jpop, You said you went to a Mormon church and you don't know that we believe that the Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible?
  
  We read the King James Version of the Bible on a regular basis, because we are Christians.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Book of Mormon is not a companion book, it is a false gospal and the bible warns us of this tom foolery.
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not in the least way is the Book of Mormon a false gosple, it teaches of the same Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who performed a vicarious sacrifice for the salvation of all mankind.
  
  You seem to be so wrapped up in your conviction that we are wrong that you can't even see that the things I have professed to you are nearly the same things that you believe.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It teaches god was once man. And that we too can achieve god hood. Again oldest lie in the book. If the MOB claims that god was once a man and came to be through another planet then he him self is not the god of the bible, and so that gods son can not be the christ of the bible.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Onusonus-
  Amen, brother.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I did read the Holy Bible. Then I read the Book of Mormon after that. I still continue to READ both books. If you use a good search engine like the one available on www.scriptures.lds.org you will be able to find that most if not all the things I have said stem from the Bible. The Book of Mormon is another people’s record of the same teachings, only brought forward at a later time. They compliment and corroborate each other remarkably well. If you have ever watched a courtroom drama unfold, you may have noticed that when two testimonies, or accounts corroborate each other, and witness for each other (like Jesus did of His Father and His God, and our Father, and our God) they are BOTH more likely to be determined as the TRUTH. One is not more true than the other, they are both true. If you have difficulty seeing this, you are not among the majority who have READ BOTH BOOKS (and prayed sincerely for the witness of truth [i.e. the Holy Spirit] to acknowledge this to them). Please note that this witness can not be summoned, but rather can only be sought - with humility and patience. Note also that this witness is a promise of truth that can be found in both sets of complimentary scriptures.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again, if the Book of Mormon states that we can all be gods it is in direct violation of the Bible. If it claims God was once a man it is clearly in direct Violation of the Bible. If it says that we are the children of god it is in direct violation of the Bible, we are his creations, Jesus is his only son. If the MOB says that we have a heavenly mother it is in direct violation of the Bible, and if the MOB says that Black people are cursed it is racist.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My good man, if you want to believe what we also believe, but without a corroborative and sustaining witness, you are clearly allowed and to do so. Let me bring forward an anecdote for you to consider, for those times when a corroborating and sustaining witness (and non-superficial, in my view]) may be welcome by you and/or your teachers.
  As we both know, the writings of the Holy Bible can be interpreted many ways, which can have the effect of SPINNING the Good Word to fit any point of view. This, may be because it has been NAILED to the wall with only one nail (in this anecdotal view). The Book of Mormon then comes along and does not also SPIN the Bible on this one-nail axis, but NAILS it to the wall as well. It stops I from be spun all around. This Additional Witness to CHRIST supports the Holy Bible like a loving Brother supports his family and siblings. The Book of Mormon does not remove any of the truth that the Bible has - it is simply an additional witness - something that any jury and/or judge worth his salt can accept as such - a corroborating witness of truth. Amen.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, if the Jesus of the MOB is the son of a man god then he is not the same as the Christ of the bible.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean by MOB? Is this an acronym for something that I am not aware of? Please respectfully enlighten me.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Timothy-
  Amen brother.
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're not helping your cause.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why not? Is it because I started off with a bit of levity, or is there some other matter you suggest brings disrepute to my candor?
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think he thought your introduction sucked. Ha-ha! You're on your own; good luck. LOL!
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
If anyone is interested, I recently published two hubs on "Ignorance". One is a poem.

However, I'm with Mark Knowles on this one.
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
Mormons are free to believe what they want but they are certaintly not christians and do not abide by the word of the christian God. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man. Mormons proclaim this crap, "eternal progression." Romans 1:22, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." Also the Christ in the bible and that of the mormons are not the same.The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man god.The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Lucifer , and according to LDS popular LDS thought, married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not, to the LDS church, "God incarnate" as the Bible plainly states. Clearly, the Mormon god and Jesus are not the true God and Jesus of the Bible. Orson Hyde, the Mormon Apostle said, "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married in the marriage of Cana of Galilee." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 80) Brigham Young, said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Child Jesus...He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is His father? He is the first of the human family." (Journal of Discourses, Pages 50-51)

Compare this with the Word of God which says:

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being
interpreted is, God with us." (Matthew 1:23)
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  Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is the stuff that kills me, you are quoting from uncannonized sources, taking speculative side statements, and bringing them to the center of our beliefs in order to convince others that this is the core of our religion.
  
  And you rightly assume that people won't take the time to learn what we actually believe. All in the name of Jesus, Bravo.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN!
  jpop-
  Where did Satan come from?
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
The bible, a pile of threats written by bunch of neurotic old men disagrees with the quoran which is almost identical apart from the screaming rhetoric, which although varied in the types of torture advocated remain on par!
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well of course they are very similar, they are both based on the same thing, the only problem being that they do consider Christ God in the flesh and only consider him a phophet. But you see Islam is at least honest in its views on God, they dont go around claiming that they are Christians like these liars of the LDS.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not lies, fantasy, just like your beliefs! Christ stories can be traced back almost to the sun god! What a pile of duck dribble!
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, if their is a sun god accourding to those beliefs their must be more gods. The bible plainly states their is one GOD. But that is if you believe in it, I was never on here trying to state the Bible as fact to those who dont believe in it, I am mearly here to show the differances between Mormons and the teachings of the bible, so please if you do not believe in any thing I dont think you have to worry.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The bible? Isn't that the literary works that lead to the mental condition known as "bipolar disorder?" Ain't that where God, in the first half, told us to go forth and multiply ourselves (go fu*k yourselves) and in the second half - for some strange reason, decided to love everybody? I'm confused: God went from violent acts of rage...to loving hugs & kisses. Help me, Earnest, I'm confused... Ha-ha! LOL! LOL! I'm fu*kin' laughing out loud!!!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
There were hundreds of gods! Most claimed to be the one true god, just like the nonsense in the bible.
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  jpop13posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Christ did just claim it in the bible, he showed it. No other god did what he did, Christ not only preformed miracles, but he broke all the molds. Unlike other gods of other faiths, he did the ultimate symbol of sacrifice, he gave his life for our own. He died on the cross for everyone's slavation. But again we will only know for sure when we too perish from this earth.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know when the New Testament was written?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  slavations, mmmmmm yep!
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jpop13posted 15 years ago
The new testament are a collection of works which were written during the time's of Christ and were later brought to gether under one book. Those books were the books that were divinely choosen by God, and I know you will question the motiffs and involement of the Roman Empire with those works, but if the romans had their way the appacrathia would also be included and I believe that the exclusion of these books shows that God choose what books to be or not be included in the Bible.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Really? what luciferian ideology are you under?
  Your last two posts prove you know absolutely squash about Y`shua.
  "God" is mythical mumbo jumbo as is the 'bible' & 'chrsitianity'.
  Y`shua Moshiach is All in all, not the bible and not this title 'God'. It is annoying that all you 'christian folk' can't see past your noses, but dare strike another -believer or not.
  
  If you know Y`shua so well, tell me then, what is the purpose of salvation -meaning exactly why Y`shua manifest in the flesh?
  
  Please, the floor is now yours.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Has any one thought about the fact that false prophets may not even know that he/she is leading others astray.
Many false prophets THINK that they are doing God's work.
Scripture says that many righteous will be killed and the murderers will think that they are doing it in the name of God. That which is good will be called bad and vice versa. Many will be deceived and will not know it.

If you have been deceived would you know it?
The New Testament that everyone is judging each other from was constructed by The Emperor of the Roman Empire.
Constantine built the Universal Church for political purposes. Some of the people of the day might have called it the "one world religion". Many called it a false religion and were killed for it. Does that sound familar?
How do we know that the deception didn't begin with the selection of writings that were accepted into the cannon?
What made this selection of writings "the inspired word of God" and all others only worth burning.
And all opposition was killed.
After a while this new "Religion" was commonly accepted.
OR ELSE
Regardless of your churches denomination... Your Church roots extend back to Rome.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do some people have to 'read' their way through life? I'm curious... Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, you have a brain of your own? People that talk like you, end up being suckers to the 'fear & control' factors of religions and governments! Think for yourself! Praise be the fu*kin' animal kingdom!!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Seems to me that many people are not reading the book that they profess to recieve their faith from.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Comprehension issues, I suppose? LOL!
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
Oh look, I admit a mistake. Jesus will be my Final Judge, as found in John 5: 22 “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son”. See? I do not however recant my Testimony and witness of the truth of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, however human I may be, yet like unto us all.
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Randy Godwinposted 15 years ago
Yes, they are all the same.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  how was the fishing trip?
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The trip was great,21! Wonderfully secluded spot with great friends. I am almost hoarse from laughing so much. Thanks for asking!
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
Here is a link to the compilation of the oldest known scriptures available to the public, ONLINE:
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/
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waynetposted 15 years ago
Morons? don't know any personally!
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're lucky! Ha-ha!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Boy!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Heya Sneak. Wanna join our religion? I know you're committed elsewhere, but you can be an honorary member.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would love to hang with you guys and gals! What I want to first is to tell you all thanks for standing by Golden and I while we we're being pressed. The fact that our religion was not a factor in our friendship is very special to me and I'm sure Golden would agree. There's enough room for us all. Thank you very much!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  All obnoxications will be blasted to the outer limits.
  
  Unless they're people we like.
  
  You did a great job of holding your own in the face of great provocation.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks!
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Sneaks! I've been working on my hub going out tomorrow on a specific subject using only Bible passages. I just now checked on the frenzy of the dancers. I hope you are holding your own here. It's as I've always said, pride blinds those who choose not to see their way to understanding and tolerance. As long as we stay on the side of peace we will be justified.
  
  When your face gets red, your voice rises and your emotions run wild with contention, then you know that the spirit of God is leaving you and that Satan is beginning to take over. This is why I have not stooped to such levels of the accusers who have only the knowledge "designed" to destroy the hearts of others. I choose peace over contention. This, I believe will sanctify and justify us as a people over all else.
  
  Catch you later bro!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is this what you meant?
  
  Fools of little understanding are their own worst enemies,
  for they do wrong deeds which bear bitter fruits.
  That action is not well done, which having been done,
  brings remorse, whose result one receives crying with tears.
  But that action is well done, which having been done,
  does not bring remorse,
  whose result one receives gladly and cheerfully.
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
"And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness." Alcuin, c.735-804
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Smith was a "people."
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
I also have a remarkable, objective piece of literature available to share which was written by my old friend, a FORMER Mormon Bishop, entitled The Book of Mormon and the Future of Mormonism, by Ray Agostini of Wollongong, New South Wales, Australia. It can be found on www.webcrawler.com, or I can email it to you directly. It is presently stored in the Queensland Australia Education Archives. I have since lost touch with this venerable (in my estimation) man of faith, and have been unsuccessful in finding him since 2003.
This published essay (of his) which I refer to is an example of a respectfully written expose from the heart of a man of great conscience and humble thought. I recommend it to all who want an educated objective perspective, whether it helps my cause or not. I say this because I believe it is the Holy Spirit who witnesses the ultimate truth to those who seek it, and that secular observations (i.e.: bring forth your strong reasons [from the book of Isaiah]) may be the catalyst to further desirous searching.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying it doesn't make any difference if Smith's novel is true or not?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't seem to bother them does it.
  
  Did you catch any fish? Get any nice pictures?
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't fish, river too high! Beautiful secluded area. Ate, drank, and was mari..er merry. Yes, I took a few photos, but didn't get one of the elusive Alapaha Bigfoot. I'm beginning to think it may not exist. You know how people make things up.LOL
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No it must exist. I read about it in a book.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ... and what about all those rooly good pichas!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My bigfoot is bigger than your yowie. Your yowie is a myth, I don't care how many rooly gad pichas you think you have.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have got some pichas so rooly good that you can see half an outline!
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is it true, Earnest, bout your small yowie?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My yowie is huge! I am Australian, everything Australians are interested in must be HUGE!
  If I had a bigger Yowie, all you would hear is Yowie!
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That settles it! I may devote the rest of my life on behalf of this misunderstood creature. I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of the last few descendants of the lost tribes these guys are talking about.
  
  Come to think of it, it makes perfect sense. I mean really, how did the last guy know he was the last guy. If these people were human beings, I bet a few of them hid away in the swamps and mountains during the final great battle. I think someone on here stated there were over 1,000,000 people involved in the great slaying. No scaredy cats in a million?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So bigfoot is a peacenik? Makes sense.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And god = peace, so bigfoot must be god!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  At first I wasn't sure, but then I found these golden plates and a couple of rocks...
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well okay, they weren't really gold, more like rusty tin.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just be sure you don't keep any evidence, or nobody will believe you.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, the swamp angel took the plates back.
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  Mark O Richardsonposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Fools mock, but they shall mourn.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! You could be a Mormon priest....priestette...you know what I mean!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do I get 50 husbands?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  50 Husbands?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Greedy girl! You can have 20 and that's the limit!
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only if you are "devout Yowie!"
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  10 for members of the Yowie faith, 20 for devout members, 30 for those who tithe extra regularly, 40 for priests, and 50 for me, cause I'm the chosen one. The angel of the swamp has spoken it. I have heard it and verified it with my magic rock, let it be so.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. Of course not. It is the reason I was converted, and it is the keystone of Mormonism. I have had reservations of some things in the Book, but I still accept them to be a part of the truth. Perhaps there are some things which are more difficult to grasp for me, or to fully understand, but that is no reason to deny the witness which I have. I am like a child when it comes to personal revelation from My Father in Heaven, I do not doubt His love and care for me, even though I can at times be rambunctious and a bit of a rebel. I can tell you this, I trust in God enough to believe He will forgive my shortcomings, which from time to time include examining, or questioning our teachings. By the way, questions are welcome and encouraged in Sunday school classes. It is only in Sacrament Meeting where the congregation is expected to be reverent to the degree of not interjecting during the course of the service. Afterwards, classes are made to teach, and I think it is obvious that when one is desirous of learning (being taught), that questions are the norm.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So if you discovered it was a fraud, you'd leave mormonism?
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh, the great IF. Well, what it comes down to for me is then denying my Spiritual witness. I would hope that never happens, even if sometimes my humanity wants other things of this world.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you ever think you could be missing your true spiritual witness by following along your religious path?
  
  Spirituality is only about two things- (a) the love you feel for yourself and others, and (b) through the honesty of action you do for yourself and others.
  
  To try to obtain spirituality via some unknown "GOD" concept is an illusion that leaves only emptiness and nothingness behind.
  
  You do yourself harm by believing in a "GOD" or "Creator", because it defeats the meaning of life, as understood by most.
  
  Love- You love yourself then others.
  Mercy- You have mercy on those who don't know any better, so as to help them get through life.
  
  This means you have an influence on other people's life, so as to improve their life, while you gain your spirituality via your love for them and you honesty in doing so.
  
  That's real meaning behind "spirituality". Don't misplace your faith. Your individual faith is to only be placed on yourself or other people.
  
  There is absolutely no reason/justification to place your faith in a "GOD", for which, you can never prove to yourself exists.
  
  It's absurd and anti-life.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Honey, your spiritual witness is a somewhat misleading thing. I am 100% positive that many of the teachings of the mormon church -or any church- are good things. Take what is truly good and real, and learn to leave the rest behind.
  
  Just as your spiritual witness tells you that mormonism is true, the spiritual witnesses of muslims and jews and other christians tell them that their religions are true as well. Do you deny their experience? Of course not.
  
  The question is what really is this spiritual witness you're dealing with, and what is it really witnessing to you.
  
  Faith can be a good thing for people, in this world where people are conditioned to believe that religious faith is required. Maybe at this time you have some personal need, I wouldn't want to deprive you of something that might be useful to you.
  
  But keep an open mind.
  
  Stick around, I like you. You're alright.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my ... Pandora, I have seen how you would be a formidable adversary, or a formidable friend. Thank you for not lambasting me! Trust me though, what you speak of is up front and centre in my mind (ok, well not always).
  I actually do make it a habit of taking for myself what is good and leaving the rest. The thing is, the rest becomes part of the good when I understand it. My understanding comes from diligent (to a degree) study and regular church attendance, probably upwards of 70% in the last seven years or so I would estimate. Prior to that for a time I was in the money, and not concerned with my salvation. Go figure. I find great solace in my belief, so I am glad that you would not deny me that comfort. As far as other faiths go, as long as they don’t teach me that blowing myself up for good is the way to go, I say that there are elements of good in ALL of them (including mine). Pandora, that is the beauty of a restored gospel, it has many elements that the others OFFICIALLY no longer espouse. I believe that we should all keep a critical , but respectful view on our leaders, be what they may.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I never lambast anyone I don't really think deserves it.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope they have better answers than you guys. I wonder if the questioner's are satisfied by the same answers received here by us?
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your hope is assured. Your wonder is not.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's silly!
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Silly is what Silly does.
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Pandoras Boxposted 15 years ago
"Many millions of people do not really know life." -Cagsil

So true and so sad.
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Pandoras Boxposted 15 years ago
Hey we busted 1000 posts. I'd be ashamed of my contributions to this thread if we hadn't found the one true god in the end. All hail Yowie, my new god.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Now I am rooly rooly excited! Swamp angels? Where do ya get em?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have to be purified in the mud, have the appropriate number of mosquito bites, wear a black suit, come on the day of the 1/67th moon, and.... you have to be sure to bring the right person with you.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And be sure to bring a clean handkerchief.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm ok for everything else..... where in hell can I find a clean handkerchief!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No clean handkerchief, no yowie.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Damn!
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Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years ago
I have this thread in a chronological order, and it is surprising to see that I sometimes must view several screens before I see a serious, rather than sarcastic post. But maybe that's because I am new to these forums on Hubpages.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No Timothy, this is pretty much it these days, any decent arguments are ignored here as you will see in time.
  Information which is scientific, peer reviewed and checked against scientific method is considered from the dark side, and is countered by religionist sites saying all science is bunk and "satan" is behind it all
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're clearly looking at it wrong. The ones that you think are serious are actually the sarcastic ones. If it is truth you want, refer to the ones you formerly viewed as sarcastic. There you will find the wisdom you seek.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is it so hard for you to realize some of us look at your religion EXACTLY the same way you are reading these silly posts? Some of the things you guys claim are even sillier, because you believe them. We know when we are being silly, but, you don't realize it when you are!
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Phoenix Filesposted 15 years ago
I like the idea of boffing more than just one woman for the rest of your life . . . and they're ALL loyal to just the one guy!
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Welcome to the forum, prophet!
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Hey Randy, What's up? How you doing today?
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Neat as pig $#!7. Cags! Everyone seems to be in a talkative mood today. Wait a minute, it's a full moon isn't it?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Honestly I'm just thinking that this thread really needs hijacking.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry, the priest will probably post a few pages of his usual junk so we can relax for a while.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that's already in progress.
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
"They insulted me; they hurt me;
they defeated me; they cheated me."
In those who do not harbor such thoughts,
hate will cease.

What's up my friends?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh man that is so wise. That really is truth right there. My spiritual witness, the angel of the swamp, and Yowie all agree.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh Hokey, how many times have you been married?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  :LOL:
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Never been married!
  
  (this is why)
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you considered a hair transplant?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my..
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Marriage is okay if you can survive the first couple decades. After that I guess we're just too old to fight.
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have two decades! You?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have two decades too many.
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habeeposted 15 years ago
Is there a religion that allows a woman to have more than one husband? I could use a couple more.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Join the Yowie faith, woman, and Yowie will bestow upon you all things good.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can I keep my concubines?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As a faithful swamp lover, you may. And I hereby make you an elder, so 40 wives if you want them, and however many concubines you manage to -er- manage. Ahem.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great, but I think I will just go with the concubine option.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wise man. That's why Yowie told me to make you an elder.
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can I be an elder too?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Definitely. Every religion needs to have a little wisdom in it. You can be in charge of creating doctrine.
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He has to find his own concubines, though!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We get to have concubines? ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!
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  habeeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Dang, Randy - if you have 40, don't you think you could share a couple??
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm afraid Hokey would issue a new edict and keep them!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't take all 40. I would leave you 2
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  YOWIE! Elder Skelter!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  :lOl:
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Besides, they call you Hokus pokeus!
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have to be with my church on this one: NOBODY's gunna poke me!
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great!!!
  
  My first edict!!!
  
  Those who imagine truth in untruth
  and see untruth in truth
  never arrive at truth but follow vain desires.
  Those who know truth as truth and untruth as untruth
  arrive at truth and follow true desires.
  
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is this true?
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  Hokeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. She said I was in charge of doctrine. SO BE IT!!!!!!!!!
  
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lemme consult the magic rock...
  
  ...It says Signs Point To Yes!
  
  All hail the bald buddha!
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, it's quite accurate.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok Hokey! Thats good! Twisted but good!
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeti, Yeti, Yeti,
  to, Rock & Roll!
  reply report

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