Jesus did not die on Cross

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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Hi friends

Jesus did not die on the Cross. He survived.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
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1. 59
  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good !
  And when he died, then ?
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  485naruto485posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i am a cristion i wish heavenly i could belive you but he realy did
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  49
  485naruto485posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i am a cristion i wish heavenly i could belive you but he realy did
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi sock-puppet/Muhammad-puppet
  
  Jesus died on the Cross for you, and for everyone else.
  
  He is sad that you don't trust Him.
  
  I Love Jesus as mentioned in the Bible.
  
  I am a born-again so-far-peaceful Christian.
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  49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  H friend Brenda Durham
  
  You say Jesus died on the Cross; What for he should die and he should be happy with?
  
  Do you hate Jesus that you want him dead on the Cross?
  
  I love Jesus and that is why I don't believe that Jews were successful in proving him a false claimant of Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I explained this to you in the "Posting Scripture" thread.
  
  It's some religions like original Judaism and Catholicism and others which portray Him still on the Cross, and also portray Him as taking a place alongside Mary, making Him actually look secondary to his human mother. But He is risen and alive!!! He is the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega. He is, even YOUR, risen Savior if you so choose to accept His offer.
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  49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Brenda Durham
  
  Jesus did not come in the beginning of the Creation; so he cannot claim to be Alpha; Jesus did not come in the end, so he is not Omega. It is wrongly ascribed to Jesus. The Creator-God Allah YHWH is the First; He existed when he did not command to Universe or liffe to come into being ; similarly he would be the End; when he will command the Universe or life to come to an end . It is the fault of the sinful scribes to write that Jesus was Alpha and Omega. How could Jesus calim it physically when he knew and everybody knows that Jesus was not the First or the Last?
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  how dare you speak the name, YHWH, it is forbidden, remember?
  if you're going to follow law, follow the law or we will beat your feet with sticks as a blasphemer!
  
  peace-ful!
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  obai007posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God bless you Brenda Durham, the Holyspirit will continue to strengthen you.
  And to you Ahmadi, it's good that you asked to know about something you virtually have no knowledge of.
  Jesus died on a cross and rose from the dead. He defeated death so that anyone (who acknowledges this TRUTH), won't have to go through all he went through. And today HE IS ALIVE AND SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.
  Some years back, i was an atheist who never believed in anything but I have come to see Jesus Alive and at work. I have seen the sick healed, deaf ears restored, HIV/AIDS cured...and alot more.
  Am writing this with tears in my eyes because after reading this forum, I find out that A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL DON'T KNOW ABOUT JESUS.
  Consider these words carefully.
  GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so, lemme ask you this "preacher", are you gonna live or die in body? think about it for a while and get back to me...
  
  I am a peaceful zealot-heretic-gnostic Hubpages jihadist.
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  49
  485naruto485posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i acc his off of course
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  blondepoetposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know he didn't die on the cross lol. Have you seen him and he told you over a cup of coffee lol?. I normally stay out of religious threads as everyone argues that they are correct and everyone else is wrong. However I respect everyone's opinion...so am just asking.
  I learned in Sunday school when I was little it was a cross.
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  49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend blondepoet
  
  I thank you for a good question.
  
  It is certainty of reason. If you apply reason; you could see through the things mythical and superstitious. I will Cross-examine those who are said to be eye-witnesses. They were not eye-witnesses; they lose their credulity.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
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  mjane24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You love Jesus and Mary?WHY BOTH why not only J esus?is mary your savior?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mjane24
  
  Neither Jesus nor Mary; none of them is my saviour; I love them for being Chosen-of-God and loved-one's of God; and because God Allah YHWH talked to them. They were human beings like Moses and his mother; I love them all.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you do love me too?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Greek One
  
  I love you generally as I love all the human beings of whatever faith or no-faith or color; but love for those whome God Allah YHWH chose for his Word is special.
  
  My saviour is the Creator-God Allah YHWH though
  
  Thanks
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so generally speaking, it is fair to say you DO love me? right?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I love you; and perhaps you also love me.
  
  Thanks
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i love you very much!
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks
  
  You are my brother in humanity
  
  Regards
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  64
  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you know this is not funny because my nanny was just watching broke back mountain while ironing today.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  MUST you women ALWAYS sexualize things!?!?!
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  49
  485naruto485posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi paarsurrey friend
  i agre with it all!!!!
  ty [: [: [: [: [:
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend blondepoet
  
  You just read the following book of about hundred small pages:
  
  http://www.alislam.org/library/books/je … index.html
  
  And you will know the truth.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you call him prophet and do not do as he ask,and you denie his death on the cross! the romans was experts at[ death on the cross] and how can you say he did not die?that is antichrist ideal.all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father!
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  Callmeishmaelposted 5 years agoin reply to this
  Parsurrey, again you make a fundamental error in your interpretation. Did you actually say that Christ could not have died because that would have meant his enemies had power over him? That's exactly as Christ wanted it, don't you see that? In your mind, being defeated has no benefit. If you were Christian, you would know that that's exactly what Christ was trying to show us!!! Christ allowed himself to be crucified in order to show us what love means. He did it also to show us that death is not the end. And He did this by RISING FROM THE DEAD!!!
  
  Your script goes like this:
  "Parsurrey: Blessings be upon him (Christ)." But it should really say this:
  "Blessings be upon Parsurrey." (Signed, "CHRIST.") CHRIST BLESSES YOU!!! YOU DON'T BLESS HIM!!!
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  61
  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Jesus Puppet!
  
  So now you presume ato assume that you know how your mythical God feels. Hmmmmm....... Interesting.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible tells us how He feels. If you want to know, read it.
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  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The bible means nothing. Just stories made up by people.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And Buddha means nothing, just stories someone made up.
  And Muhammad means nothing, just stories someone made up.
  And Moses means nothing, just stories someone made up.
  And L Ron Hubbard means nothing, just stories someone made up.
  And Hollywood means nothing, just stories someone made up.
  And Richard Dawkins means nothing, just stories someone made up.
  And Chicken is not really chicken, just stories someone made up.
  
  Ah, the ageless story tellers.
  ( i should write a story about this [ hub ], but it wouldn't mean anything, just a story I made up).
  
  All day baby all day...
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  61
  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually you can not include Buddha, L Ron Hubbard, Hollywood, Richard Dawkins, and chicken in your list. They are all real and can be proven by outside references. Please dont be so upset that you cant make rational replies. Have a nice day!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not at all upset, Hokey. I am actually amused by that statement. Merely pointing out that any spoken or written document can be called 'something someone made up'. All leaders can be said the same, they have speech writers.
  
  What is ironic is that people will readily accept a thing before considering the truth of it -better said the Application of it. Else, immediately dismissing it. Because having read it or tried it, that message did not fit their perspective and now becomes propaganda. I see it constantly in here. Many ex-theists of all sides of the Ism, turning to everything ( including Donald Duck ), looking for something to satisfy and occupy the territory of hollowness, drowning out the pain, fear and discomfort of philo.
  
  Indeed, have a nice day!
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  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Donal Duck?
  
  That is a good one!
  
  Cool. Not trying to upset people. Just discussing.
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  thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Except the Bible was written over three centuries after Jesus existed. You try writing a book of teh day to day travels of someone who existed three hundred years ago without supporting documentation.
  
  The whole Jesus died for out sins thing has always confused me, I mean how did his death actually help anyone, how did it absolve everyone elses sins?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Covenant, Soli, it's all about covenant.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Hi friend thisisoli
  
  You have seen through the myth about Jesus. I appreciate your stance on sins.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I had chicken for lunch.
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  there were 14 different teachers of histroy who wrote about yeshua
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  David, even without the evidence is very clear.
  Only those seared of consciousness would continue to mock, ridicule or argue the truth hey already perceive in any measure of faith.
  
  I find it humorous, entertaining more and more, every day. Reminds me of Nebu running rabid -eating grass from his own field- though once a mighty king...
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  73
  cheaptrickposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  James!...you Rascal!of Course Chicken is Chicken!
  I think your just avoiding the Chicken and Egg question!!
  Tsk Tsk...and your a Chef at That!
  Question!Why does Everything we cant Identify taste like Chicken?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  DEAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  sup my brotha from another motha?!
  
  oye, they let this zealot-heretic out for a walk and look what happened: I cooked them both. Ha!
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  cheaptrickposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said in one of your Hubs,
  I like the Smiling pic Best!...And your Recipes have EXPANDED MY TASTE BUDS!!!
  When I get Back from The Tortuga's We gotta Talk!Marisa thinks your Project looks good at first glance.
  Hijack!Hijack!...Keep Cookin Bro!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  will do mate!!!
  And eh, don't get snookered by a pretty six pack next time, eh!!!
  Am leaving for St Lucia next Thursday.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did Buddha (sp?) die for you Hokey?
  
  It is he who simply made up a lot of his stuff so that people would follow his teachings.
  
  Jesus actually "put His money where His mouth is" as the old saying goes. He walked on this earth for one reason and only one reason, and He died for one reason----so that you and anyone else could be saved and have eternal Life.
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  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  See Brenda that is where you go wrong. You cant proclaim these stories as if they are factual. There was no Jesus who died for any of us. Never resurrected. Washed away our sins in his . (now that is just and dark). Buddha discussed principals of life that are true. Impermanence, karma, suffering, and interconnectedness of all. All these principals deal with real life and are known and proven. There are no stories and myths of super human miracles and such.
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  49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Brenda Durham
  
  Bible is not written by Jesus; it is written by scribes who deserted Jesus because of lack of belief in Jesus; and hence they have no credulity, they just wrote out of hearsay; they were hardly themselves witness of the events of Jesus in particular about the events of Crucifixion.
  Please believe in Bible where it appeals to reason; and leave it when it becomes mythical or superstitious.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  mjane24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  your god is satan
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your god doesn't exist!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  your doesn't either!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  dude, easy. you don't even know who or what satan is.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Peaceful?
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  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have to ask...and you must excuse my ignorance as I haven't been here that long. I've heard this mentioned before. Who is Sock-Puppet?
  
  Teri
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A..sock puppet is, from what I understand ('cause I really haven't been here very long either) is a person who uses a separate account and/or really isn't interested in being a Hubber and only posts some threads to get people goin'....
  
  Some other Hubber can maybe define it correctly for you and me both!
  Somebody please do!
  
  Nice to see you this morning Teri.
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  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good morning Brenda...It seems that really every one on here is anonomous so why use this sock-puppet person?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think a sock-puppet is an account created by someone specifically for the purpose of agreeing with themselves or arguing in favor of themselves.
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  Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If Jesus (if he even existed) never was crusified, we probably would never of heard of him. All of these miracles that he alegally performed and claims of him being the son of God were all written 30+ years after Jesus' death by people who never met him. Compaired to calling the Titanic unsinkable and so on. The owners and builders never claimed the ship was unsinkable. That BS was created by the press. The stories got bigger and wilder after the ship sank.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "The owners and builders never claimed the ship was unsinkable. That BS was created by the press. The stories got bigger and wilder after the ship sank."
  
  This is a story and not reality as the Titanic was the first ship build with water tight bulkheads and so it was technically unsinkable .Sadly the water tight doors were not closed and thats the reason the Titanic sunk.
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  49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Paul Wingert
  
  Jesus did not claim to be a magician. He was simply a Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH. He was a Physician and God heard his prayers; so he served humanity with his knowledge of the medicine and with his prayers; both these things together could do wonders.
  
  But Jesus could, therefore, only cure the near-dead. Like Lazarus; he was not a physically dead; with Jesus’ prayer and medicine he got cured.
  
  It is said that the ointment, prepared from the basic ingredients of aloe and myrrh, with which Jesus was treated in the tomb by Nicodemus and his other friends, its prescription was taught to them by Jesus himself prior to the incident of crucifixion. It is for this that the prescription is known in the ancient books of medicine with the name Marhum-e Issa or Ointment of Jesus.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Muhammad did not hear an angel, he lied.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Beelzedad
  
  How do you know?
  
  Would you kindly be more elaborate.
  
  Thanks
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So what ?
  Why do the cross makes a difference ?
  He's dead. Period.
  He died for our sins.
  But nothing changed.
  We're worse than ever !
  Pointless death ! Pointless story. Pointless Religion.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You recognize his death, and yet you pretend to act as an Atheist? Your hatefulness towards believers, speaks volumes about your true nature Tantum.
  
  Just as I suspected.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not saying I believe it. I'm just stating what you believe.
  But you know that, of course! You're not stupid!
  
  Nor anybody else is!
  
  I think ???
  
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the Christians who harass people and are always trying to cause trouble, Even slandering others..Now, telling you, that you are hateful.
  
  Such Love
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39408?page=4#post913805
  
  Doesn't it make you want to pick up your cross and follow that doctrine?!
  
  Hello Tantrum!
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Hi Deborah !
  It makes me want to pick a cross ( I don't earn one) and beat them on the head with it !
  
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't reply again..OK
  You know what I mean.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So are you looking to bash your Christian daughter's head in?
  
  I think your tone borders on hate speech.
  
  Beating people up with crosses?
  
  Nice.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have to say, that I completely believe that your text on the subject matter is incorrect. However, I would think this because I'm a Christian. Therefore, believe what you want and I'll believe it my way.
  
  To each their own.
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  Isabelle22posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I like that answer. Each to their own beliefs, why argue it????
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  Rossimobisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi folks,peace and love unto all.As a matter of fact,we all have different views and many a time i have seen a Christian say things that are not even recorded in the Bible and is far from Christian moral beliefs.Regarding this particular issue,Christ Jesus died o the CROSS OF CALVARY.He took the pains of death that I and I will be saved,he was brought down dead from the cross and laid to rest.
  
  paarsurrey,i got your point of view but you are wrong,Jesus died on the cross but he over came the powers of death.If you are still in doubt then,tell me where he died and if he was breathing when he was brought down from the cross.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Rossimobis
  
  Just think why Jesus trusted friends took him to a solatary spacious and airy tomb; lest he gets suffocated. There they treated his wounds with the available large quantity of herbs of aloe and myrr. It is mentioned in the Bible; please see through it with your reasonable mind.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your acting isn't very good.
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  sagbeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I did not know that Jesus was not dead when hunged on the cross.. and in fact many people of other religion also don't know this fact.. Well, he was the saint soul and this is teh reason may be he did not die...I believe on Jesus and love him..
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend sagbee
  
  One may believe whatever one likes but it is a fact that Jesus did not die on the Cross. If one loves Jesus, one should accept this fact.The Jews wanted to kill Jesus to prove that he was a fals Prophet in terms of Torah:
  
  But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain. Deuteronomy 18:20
  
  The Creator - God Allah YHWH saved Jesus against all odds to prove that Jesus was a truthful Prophet Messenger.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  loisryanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True he survived-When he defeated Satan and rose from the dead three days later
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend loisryan
  
  What did make Jesus a god that he established a similarity with Jonah?
  
  1. Period of three days
  2. Going in the belly of the fish/tomb
  3. Praying to the Creator
  
  When Jonah could not become a god; how could Jesus become?
  
  Just think with reason. Jesus remained a human being; the only similarity was that like Jonah; Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Although I deeply disagree with your hypothesis I do respect your freedom to believe such and to spread it around like yummy peanut butter. However, did you know that the coroner munchkin off of "The Wizard of Oz" did, indeed, die recently? This is Earth shattering news!
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend goldenpath
  
  What has it to do with the topic? please
  
  Thanks
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  goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Everything! I can prove the munchkin died. In this day and age it takes no faith to prove such a thing or the effect he had on family and fans. With Jesus Christ one must look beyond that which is written in the Bible, stars, telephone book or even a napkin with which we wipe our mouths with. He is the Infinite Atonement. His full measure in our lives can only realized and magnified through faith and application of the principles and precepts He taught. Through this I can testify that He did suffer and was slain upon the cross. Even further I can testify that He had to utterly do this alone. Utterly! He, Himself, was amazed and grieved as He progressed into the Garden. That was the Holy Spirit leaving His bodily temple. He had to take on this duty, responsibility and toil utterly alone - even at the expense of the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit. That is massive and significant!
  
  So you see, you may succeed in persuading many that Jesus Christ was less than our Savior and Redeemer. Yet, for those few of us who have taken the time to learn through faith and application we know for a surety that He is the One who reconciled us to the Eternal Father.
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  kaja_melposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't know there were people still alive today that witnessed the crucifixions performed by the Roman Empire. Were all the crucifixions a lie? Capital punishment is still going strong today in the form of the "Death Penalty". Yes I am a Christian and believe in the crusifixion of Jesus, but I was not there and I did not see and I don't believe anyone else here did either. However we will all know one day when we die and if we ressurect. If Jesus did not die on the cross, the whole basis of Christianity is lost and we better learn the art of sacrificing animals to atone for our sins. I love Jehovah God and I believe He gave us his son for this purpose, and He gave us to His son as an eternal gift.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  evidently, parasurrey beleives that he got up and went to India.
  He also believes that this gentleman was the second coming...
  
  right, parasurrey?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i've read that book, it was interesting.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is.
  
  Thanks
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend kaja_mel
  
  At a time when most of the business was conducted under barter; animal were considered as very precious; in the middle east having a herd of animals was considere as financial richeness; a status symbol, so people sacrificed animals as an intention of sincerity or goodwill.
  
  Bible took it wrongly that it was essential to sacrifice animals for atonement of the sins. It was a wrong concept; like so many other in Bible. The Creator- God Allah YHWH never wanted that; He does not need it.
  
  Quran clears the real concept:
  
  [22:35] And to every people We appointed rites of sacrifice, that they might mention the name of Allah over the quadrupeds of the class of cattle that He has provided for them. So your God is One God; therefore submit ye all to Him. And give thou glad tidings to the humble,
  [22:36] Whose hearts are filled with fear when Allah is mentioned, and who patiently endure whatever befalls them, and who observe Prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them.
  [22:37] And among the sacred Signs of Allah We have appointed for you the sacrificial camels. In them there is much good for you. So mention the name of Allah over them as they stand tied up in lines. And when they fall down dead on their sides, eat thereof and feed him who is needy but contented and him who supplicates. Thus have We subjected them to you, that you may be thankful.
  [22:38] Their flesh reaches not Allah, nor does their blood, but it is your righteousness that reaches Him. Thus has He subjected them to you, that you may glorify Allah for His guiding you. And give glad tidings to those who do good.
  [22:39] Surely, Allah defends those who believe. Surely, Allah loves not any one who is perfidious or ungrateful.
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=34
  
  Animal sacrifice has nothing to do with the atonement of sin.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  animal sacrifice had a lot to do with what priests ate for dinner!
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend ceciliabeltran
  
  You are right; the scribes and the priests changed/corrupted the Message.
  
  Thanks
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  all hungry people in power fall into that temptation, not just priests.
  
  They were not allowed to eat until a priest blessed their kill, which meant the priest gets a share. So in this context, should we take everything our churces/temples say literally?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend ceciliabeltran
  
  We should not believe churces/temples blindly. We should believe with research and reason.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  agree, i understand that you are trying to educate people on the message of Quran as many do not know what it is about.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend ceciliabeltran
  
  The world needs that the peaceful Message of Islam/Quran/Muhammad spreads to every nook and corner of Earth and illuminates it.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That will never happen. Islam will disappear soon along with the other religions as knowledge and understanding become wide spread and easily accessible around the world. The only group that will increase in size and 'illuminate' the world are those who have shed Bronze Age beliefs.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And not soon enough! I have never seen a religionist who wants to know where their beliefs came from, thousands of years before the bible and quoran. They just ignore the elephant in the room.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thinking scuttles believing.
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  mjane24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  allah is teaching muslims to hate people thats their books says.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mjane24
  
  There is nothing like this in Quran; please quote from Quran text of a verse with the usual context of five precefing and five following verses then establish your viewpoint.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  mjane24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  bible says that if you dont believe Christ that he died you are a lier and truth is not your heart.
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  mjane24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christ did die on the cross.heb.9:22
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  Bible is not a Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH; nor even a word written by Jesus or dictated by him or written under an express authority from him. Jesus did not die on Cross.
  
  I think where you have quoted from is from clever Paul a false Prophet. One doesn't have to believe in Paul.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me Paarasuy peaceful muslim,
  
  Paul was just a man with an understanding he wished to share. Just like you. 'False Prophet' is not cool. But I understand because why you are angry at Christians given that they too are ignorant of your beliefs.
  
  Take it easy.
  
  peace,
  cecilia
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend ceciliabeltran
  
  I am not angry with Christians; they are good people.
  
  Thanks
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Quran is not a word from the creator, nor even a word written by Muhammad or dictated by him or written under an express authority from him.
  
  One doesn't have to believe in Muhammad.
  
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend SunSeven
  
  Ho dod you understand it ?
  
  Thanks
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  angel115707posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it is written that anyone who claims to go beyond the gospel of Christ as the son of God and who died and was resurrected is so evil, you are not to let them in your home.
  It is also written that the devil masquerades as an angel of light...like your precious version of Gabriel I have read in your quran...the words sound very familiar...like the old accuser of the brethren....creepy...your rumors of Christ in that book are soap opera fakes....of that time period....
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend angel115707
  
  Not everything written is always correct; Jesus never write any Gospel; the Gospel are written by person who deserted Jesus and did not believe in him. Jesus never taught what they ascribed to him, Please read gospels with care.
  
  I love Jesus as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hello my friend paarsurrey,
  
  We have a growing body of documentary evidence to support your view, but then the Bible is shoot-through with fiction and any support the books of the holy word draw from the bible is brought into question...for the entire Christian theology rests on the belief that Jesus died on the cross...
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you accept the Islamic version. Then Allah is a God who would not only lie... but would place an innocent man on the cross to decieve those around him into believing they had crucified them.
  
  So Allah is a liar and a murderer.
  
  And Pburg...
  
  Where is this growing body of documented evidence?
  
  It doe not exist. lol
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  It is the Jews who put Jesus, an innocent man on the Cross; the Creator-God Allah YHWH saved Jesus a cursed death on Cross. I think you are blaming wrongly. Please review your stance.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christ was crucified. I am blaming no one.
  
  I am pointing out the fact that if your allah allowed an innocent man to be placed on the cross in Christ's place. He is a muderer. And a deciever. your Islam speels that. Not me.
  
  hahahaha
  
  if you cannot understand ny statement... ask me an I will clearify.
  
  And now you say... "It is the Jews who put Jesus, an innocent man on the Cross;"
  
  So was he or was he not crucified? You cannot have it both ways.
  
  of course Islam blames the jews for everything... why not something they claim never happened also.
  
  lol you guys r funny.
  
  Off to the Drs now.... see ya in a few if you want to really learn what your religion says about Christ. Obviously you don't have a clue.
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luvpassionposted 13 years ago
?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend luvpassion
  
  Jesus remained for a few hours(2/3 hours) on the Cross; and nobdoy dies on the Cross in such short period. The other two persons, the thieves did not die; so why should Jesus have died so soon? You know even the Roman official- Pilate, exclaimed surprise when they told that Jesus had died. This was only a pretext that Jesus' legs may not be broken.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...with a time machine, apparently
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Without a perch... or if one choose not to seat themselves after crucifixion. then one could die within 40 mins from heart failure. French studies have shown this to be a fact. So I think you ought to reconsider your statement. Also once the curifourgium,(the breaking of the shins of the prisoner crucified.) was performed that death followed not long after.
  
  So to make a bloated unfounded statement such as no one dies that fast on the cross is unsupportable.
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sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago
I'm sorry I just got home from work, what?
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
Brenda, great new Avatar!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks James.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, I'll second that.... this 'eye' thing is becoming popular!
  
  John
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I know.
  ...I had that avatar at another site a long time ago, and still in my files....
  
  I liked yours from the first time I saw it too!
  
  I'm curious about your screen name. It doesn't say "aquasilver", it's "aguasilver".
  
  Is there a special meaning to it?
  ..Only if you want to share.
  
  So many of the screen names around here are very interesting!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I had/have a business selling colloidal silver in Spain...
  
  Agua = water
  
  Now that business has more of less closed down, what with recession and Codex Alimentarias making it hard to maintain, but I like the name aguasilver, so I keep it alive, besides which, I have used it for eight years!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Water is AQUA...never heard of AGUA
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In Spanish is Agua
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ohhh..I didn't know that. I live with Latin people all around me too...Ummm..guess I need to pay attention.
  
  Thanks for letting me know..
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's never late to learn something new !
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
"Friend" muslin: explain to us this then, please.

The Qur'an talks about crucifixion as punishment in Egypt.

"Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on apposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the Cross."[Qur'an 7:124]

Pharaoh said: You put your faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he doubtless is your chief who taught you magic! But verily ye shall come to know. Verily I will cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and verily I will crucify you every one. [Qur'an 26:49]

(Pharaoh) said: "Believe you in Him before I give you permission? Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic! be sure I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will have you crucified on trunks of PALM-TREES: so shall ye know for certain, which of us can give the more severe and the more lasting punishment!" [Quran 20:71]

These three passages from the Quran tell the story of Moses which occurred between 1450 - 1200 BC. There is another mention of crucifixion in the Quran:

"My two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: as for the other, he will hang from the CROSS, and the birds will eat from off his head...[Sura 12:41]
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes well, Moses performed Magick also
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  indeed. was explaining to 'the friend Muslim' that crucifying was that old. apparently it scared him/her off.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Twenty One Days
  
  So what is that you did not understand from the verses you have quoted?
  
  What is exactly your question? Please elaborate.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  again your Jesus is not our Jesus... so you can love him all you want.
  
  I know your Jesus is coming to (and I quote the Al'Hadith here...) "Shatter the crosses and slaughter the swine"... a direct refrence to your jesus destroying and killing all the Christians and jews.
  
  So to sit here and try to make as if your Jesus is the correct jesus, and we just have a few facts wrong is so disingenious it is not funny.
  
  The Quran does not even have the fact of who Jesus is correct. The Qu'ran states and I quote again... "Jesus son of mary, sister of Arron" WRONG... The Sister of Arron is Mariam... 2000 years before Christ.
  
  But that just highlights the fact that the Qu'ran is a great confabullation of Arabic poetry... and nothing more.
  
  Have a nice day.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  I think you have not understood it correctly.
  
  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, has not killed a soul. He explained that Jesus did not die on Cross; and this way he refuted the wrong concepts of the present Christianity founded by clever Paul and the errant Church. Similarly he refuted the concepts of those Christians who believe that it they (the Christians)who have killed Jesus on the cross for the atonement of their sins. The refutation of this weird concept is killing the swine; if one understands.
  
  What is bad about it?
  
  It is the Christians who believe in a mythical Jesus; so it is they who differ with the Real Jesus.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong.
  
  You can try to twist it all you want. but it is wrong.
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fact is Islam finds Christianity to be Shirk, polytheism. the highest of all sins. Also Islam is anti-thetical to both christianity and judaism. it is a fact. the three cannot co-exist because muslims are under fard, (obligation) to destroy all corruption from the world. That is a fact.
  
  So to sit here and play the friendly muslim just trying to show us the errors of our ways. is a bunch of BS.
  
  You are practicing tiqqiya, right know.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  It is the Christians , clever Paul and errant Church who believe in Trinity or shirk. Jesus never believed in Trinity; he was a Jew.
  
  Jews and Christians are my friends.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again read my comment. it is islam which believe all christians are polytheist. And that belief is false. they are not. not all Christians believe Christ to be God.
  
  but as the arabs call the beduins the "Sons of the road". Christians call Christ the, "Son of god."
  
  is that too complex?
  
  here is my question for you...
  
  What is the punishment for the sin of Shirk?
  
  And what if anything is fard upon the ummah, if they find polytheists among the community?
  
  Do they co-exist and tolerate the polytheists?....
  
  I am off to the Drs. Will look for my answer when I return.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  It is good that at least you don't believe in Trinity and that Jesus is no god.
  
  Would you please inform us; what % of Christians don't believe in Trinity and that Jesus is no god?
  
  What is your denomination please?
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A conversation requires both parties to participate. So if your not going to answer my questions. I won't answer yours.
  
  So. One more time...
  
  Here are my questions for you...
  
  What is the punishment for the sin of Shirk?
  
  And what if anything is fard upon the ummah, if they find polytheists among the community?
  
  Do they co-exist and tolerate the polytheists?....
  
  I will answer yourquestions as best I can.
  
  % of christians who do not believe christ to be God .
  
  Could not tell you. But I am not the only one. I have met many and still meet more every day.
  
  I believeCto be the Son of God, (In the ephemral sense. Such as the bedouins as the, "sons of the road".) I also believe, as many Christians do, the we are all the children of God. Sons and Daughters of the Most High God.
  
  My Denomination?... I am a Christian. As in I follow the words and ways of Yashua, the Christ.
  
  Of what denomination of Islam are you? And do not say there are no denominations in Islam. Because there are.
  
  I don't mind debating or speaking with you, Almadhi. But if you do not answer me. I will not answer you. And then we will do nothing but snipe and talk "AT" each other. Instead of too one another.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  Didn't I answer yours?
  
  Please note that I don't debate to win; I only discuss with my friends.
  
  If you don't find a reply; you are not under compulsion to answer to me. I don't mind; I know that you simply cannot answer it or you feel embarrassed to answer it. It is OK within the friends.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  
  I am
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  Nothing in this world from the men; punishment if any would be from the Creator- God Allah YHWH in this world or in the hereafter as the person is judged by God Allah YHWH; He could forgive if he likes, it is His discretion not of men.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know as well as I do that the punishment for shirk is death by stoning. It will not be tolerated withinin the Dar al'Islam, house of Islam, the Ummah. To say it is up to god is a joke. Your allah has laid out the punishment in the qu'ran. it is death.
  
  I have answered all your questions and you have not refutted a single fact I have put up. The Ulema of Usal have already reached ijma on that and many other things which are tolerated in the west. But would be a death sentence in the Islamic lands.
  
  So please do not lie.
  
  If I am wrong... prove it. I have stated what islam's Christ is all about. And not once have you shown it to be false.
  
  islam's Christ will...
  
  1... arrive on the hills outside of Jerusalem to lead the Madhi's Armies against the corruptois of the world. ie Jews and nonbelievers.
  
  2 He, Christ, will defer to the Madhi when asked to lead the Army of Islam in prayer. And your Christ will state that the Madhi is higher than all others and should lead the prayers. At which time your Christ will take a place of defferance behind the Madhi and humble himself before allah.
  
  3. He, Christ will then lead the Islamic Armies in a war against the, one eyed, one handed Dajjal. At which time he will crush those which follow the Dajjal, the Jews and Cristians and non-believers. And will.... and I quote... "Shatter the Crosses and Slaughter the swine. ie destroy the Christians and kill the jews.
  
  That will be the time when even the stones of the earth will cry out.... "Muslim there is a jew behind me. Come and kill him".. lol You guys are funny.
  
  Okay. Show me the wrong parts. Would you like me to link the Hadith? So you may learn young one.
  
  And I stated already mom didn't even know who jesus' mother was. He couldn't even get the right mellinium
  
  You Say...
  
  "Nothing in this world from the men; punishment if any would be from the Creator- God Allah YHWH in this world or in the hereafter as the person is judged by God Allah YHWH; He could forgive if he likes, it is His discretion not of men."
  
  Exactly. And Allah has already decreed the punishment for what I stated, Shirk. And you say. Gee i dunno... it is up to God.
  
  That just shows the deception you are attempting. YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THE IJMA ON SHIRK.
  
  Being deceptive will get you no where here.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend TMMason
  
  Please quote the text from Quran with the context which is usually five preceding and five following verses.
  
  You are definitely wrong; there is no such punishment mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've always wanted to know;
  What is your dogs name??
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have a dog.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did the Free Masons eat it?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you a free Mason?
  
  I don't have a dog.
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  (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, he charges for those services. Quite reasonable rates, too.
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
This might help.

Babylonian Sanhedrin, Jewish records 43a. Yeb. IV 3; 49a:,

"On the eve of Passover they hanged on a tree Yeshu [of Nazareth] and the herald went before him for forty days saying [Yeshu of Nazareth] is going forth to be stoned; in that he practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel. Let everyone knowing in his defense come and plead for him. But they found naught in his defense and hanged him on the eve of Passover."

Roman Historian Tacitus, Annals 15.44
"..people called 'Christians', hated for their abominable crimes. Their name comes from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate."

Lucian of Samosata, a Roman satirist (c. 175 AD):

"..the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world... Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshiping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws."

Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 18:63-64:
"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people; as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the "Messiah". When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified. Those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him..."

are these historians writing actual events or did they all make them up and why.
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  right twenty one.
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prayn4uposted 13 years ago
If you research the Romans way of torture it is documented...They did this to so many people who did a crime.

I can only share with you what I believe as TRUTH I cannot make you believe this and neither will God...FAITH and Trust are up to us...I pray those who read this that God Himself will open your hearts,minds,eyes and ears to His Love for YOU!

I am humbled to be a Christian...particularly in this day and age...Take a minute to read this. It might help you...

THE SCIENTIFIC DEATH OF JESUS
At the age of 33,Jesus was condemned to the death penalty.

At the time crucifixion was the "worst" death. Only the worst criminals condemned to be crucified.Yet it was even more dreadful for Jesus, unlike other criminals condemned to death by crucifixion Jesus was to be nailed to the cross by His hands and feet. Each nail was 6 to 8 inches long. The nails were driven into His wrist,not into His palms as is commonly portrayed. There's a tendon in the wrist that extends to the shoulder.The Roman guards knew that when the nails were being hammered into the wrist that tendon would tear and break, forcing Jesus to use His back muscles to support himself so that He could breath.

Both of His feet were nailed together. Thus He was forced to support Himself on the single nail that impaled His feet to the cross. Jesus could not support himself with His legs because of the pain so He was forced to alternate between arching His back then using his legs just to continue to breath.
Imagine the struggle, the pain, the suffering, The courage.

Jesus endured this reality for over 3 hours. Yes,over 3 hours!
Can you imagine this kind of suffering? A few minutes before He died, Jesus stopped bleeding. He was simply pouring water from his wounds. From common images we see wounds to His hands and feet and even the spear wound to His side. But do we realize His wounds were actually made in his body. A hammer driving large nails through the wrist, the feet overlapped and an even large nail hammered through the arches, Then a Roman guard piercing His side with a spear.

But before the nails and the spear Jesus was whipped and beaten. The whipping was so severe that it tore the flesh from His body. The beating so horrific that His face was torn and his beard ripped from His face. The crown of thorns cut deeply into His scalp. Most men would not have survived this torture. He had no more blood to bleed out, only water poured from His wounds. The human adult body contains about 3.5 liters (just less than a Gallon) of blood.

Jesus poured all 3.5 liters of his blood; He had three nails hammered into his members; a crown of thorns on his head and, beyond that, a Roman soldier who stabbed a spear into his chest.

All these without mentioning the humiliation He passed after carrying His own cross for almost 2 kilometers, while the crowd spat in his face and threw stones (the cross was almost 30 kg of weight,only for its higher part,where his hands were nailed).

Jesus had to endure this experience, so that you can have free access To God.
So that your sins could be "washed" away. All of them, with no
exception! Don't ignore this situation. JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR YOU! For You... Do not believe that He only died for others!!!

All you have to do is accept this reality,the truth that JESUS IS THE ONLY SALVATION FOR THE WORLD.God has plans for you, show all your friends what He experienced to save you,from eternal separation and hell.

May God bless your life!

60 seconds with God...
For the next 60 seconds, set aside what you're doing and take this opportunity!
If you are not ashamed to do this, please, follow Jesus' instructions. He said (Matthew 10:32 & 33): "Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; but whosoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven".

Yes, I love God. He is my source of life and my Savior. He keeps me alive day and night. Without Him, I am nothing, but with Him "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me". Philippians 4:13.

"Write your plans in pencil and let God have the eraser." amen
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  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Next time try less copy and paste and try to use your own words.
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  prayn4uposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am sorry but, it was the best way to say what I wanted to say in this post...
  I did try to remove and add my own thoughts to it... :-)
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  TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing wrong with sourcing your info to rubutt. it does not make it any less pertanent to the conversation.
  
  Why don't all you muslims post the truth about the jesus of the Qu'ran./
  
  i will tell you why.
  
  because you know everyone would see the flaws of your religious works. they would see your mimikery of our Christ is so far from the truth it isnt funny.
  
  Anyone who wants to know the truth about the Islamic Christ... simply ask and I'll show you thier own sources and where Islam derives thier falacies about Christ and the fact that he is coming to destroy all christians and jews.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How would that help since everyone says there is no proof.
  
  If he wrote in his on words people would say he made it up.
  
  If it wasn't for written documentation we wouldn't know anything about history..showing history is necessary.........
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Friend paarsurrey
  
  I believe your history of Roman torture correct. The reason the Romans hung a person on a cross to produce a slow death and deter other people from crime.
  
  Also, I read accounts of carrion-eating birds and scavenging animals gathering around the crucifixion sites. And I read reports of people writing about the stench of death they endured as they traveled the roads lined with people on the crosses. So, I have no doubt the Romans left their victims the cross for several days...
  
  And in more recent times - around 1200 AD - the Christian king of the European fiefdom - Transylvania - Count Dracula hung Muslims and heretics from the cross and again let those poor souls slowly starve to death... In fact, he put the whole population of a town on crosses and invoked so much fear because his victims died a most painful death, that he encountered no opposition at other villages and towns...
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
that says it all:

All of them, with no exceptions!

whether people choose to accept or else, is irrelevent.
all have been saved, all of humanity.

maybe now they'll stop bantering about it and start appreciating it. Cheers!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That would be nice.
  But you've buried your head in the sand on this issue, James.
  There are souls to be saved and a commission to fulfill.....I wish you were among those who had that burden for lost souls....
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, you're a sweetheart and I thank you for it.
  My zeal goes so far beyond the pulpit; it used to scared the sheep outta me and the sheep around me.
  
  Had a career ministers son, in the face of the entire congregation, ask me personally to teach the people about faith, because they were hungry for faith, while his dad was too busy playing power, politics and alter calls. Next was a monster of a church, 10,000+ strong, that moved me to the point where I almost vomited from 'holy ghost', healing, etc lies.
  
  After 'backsliding' as the term goes, came to the point of enough is enough. Just after it became evident. There are no lost souls, only souls that don't get it. My calling -if one- is to tear down every stronghold of the gods of baal, who have practiced evey magic art and potion; taught lie upon lie using the Truth; every temple made of stone brought to nothing brick by brick and every heart of ice, melted by fire. Restoring them to Grace -far exceeding books and building and bullsh!te.
  
  A zealot heretic to the core.
  
  Anything else, according to all the books & letters, is the Ism propaganda.
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  Hokeyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You really are lost huh? I mean you actually believe this. What is it liked to be brainwashed?
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  Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  pretty awful. It sucks alot, really.
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  Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  unless you only belive the good stuff, then it must be awesome.
  
  Im only speakinf for myself, I did not care for brainwashing and to this day occcasionally suffer ..umm..symptoms due to it.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ironically, i have more faith to believe the likes of Knowles, Earnest, Hokey -even Q & Quark- come to Grace easier and much more appreciative, than any bible bearing 'believer'.
  
  As they shout loudly and dance around the room; i sat watching like Elijah. Yes, shout louder, maybe your god is in the bathroom (literal Hebrew translation) and can't here you. Yes, keep evoking.
  
  Then he turned and filled the alter, the sacrifice and the rocks all around with water. Fire came down and consumed it all. The Water of Life and the Fire of the Spirit!
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My good friend 21days
  
  Richard Dawkins shouts loud and dances around the room, albeit in the opposite direction to religious fanatics
  
  Would you agree that ideological fanaticism is not the sole province of faith-based 'religion'?
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Hokeyposted 13 years ago
I dont need your benevolent sky fairy for salvation which is a nice thought but just that. A thought. Thoughts arent real either. You do know that don't you?
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thoughts are real. Thoughts have a physical presence, in the form of energy within the neurological structures that make up your mind... Thoughts can move you to act, or move you to not act... Thoughts have very real power in the same sense that electricity has power - the capacity to make that's happen...
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Bard of Elyposted 13 years ago
I have heard he went to India, and to America, according to Mormons, and to Venus, according to the Aetherius Society!
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Bard of Ely
  
  If you have an interest in the subject; you should make a research, till you achieve certainty of reason. Never have a blind faith; as blind faith is no faith. Jesus believed in reason; that is why he was so steadfast even on the Cross. And that is why he escaped death on Cross.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Make a hub about it
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend thisisoli
  
  I will make a hub on this subject; but I don' know how to make it. Please guide me.
  
  Thanks
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My good friend paarsurrey
  
  To make a hub look at the top of your Hug-page - you will see a link to 'start a new hub'. I look forward to your efforts
  
  Cheers
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aka-djposted 13 years ago
If Jesus din't die on the cross, then.......
Everybody is right. Everybody is wrong.
Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong.

There is a Hell. No, there isn't.
There is life after death. No there isn't.

Religion? There's no such thing.
But wait, there are religious people.
Oh, yeah. They're deluded.
No. It's the atheists that are deluded.
No. Nobody is deluded.
Gee, this is all to hard to figure out.

I think I will stick to the truth, that Jesus IS risen from the dead.
I believe it, and it bennefits me IMMENSLY.

As always, you all make up your own minds (as most of you already have).
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  Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I think I will stick to the truth, that Jesus IS risen from the dead"
  
  I personally think that really is the only thing that should matter. I don't think he cares if you say "cross" or "stake"...
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In actuality, it's not even so much that He died. Anyone can (and will) die. Nothing special there. (Having said that, though, His death was not like any other man's either)!
  It's the ressurection that's key. That's what sets Him apart from any other man, prophet, teacher, leader or hero.
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  Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh, yeah. good point. ha. What I meant was, growing up alot of emphasis was put on cross or not? And I always thought that was kinda beside the point.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't being smart, just making a clarifying point. The Bible says cross, and tree. So, I know what you're saying. I didn't know there was any kind of to-to about which term is correct.
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  Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was genuinely saying good point. I don't think there is a real "to-do", but I only figured that out as a grown up.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend aka-dj
  
  Jesus never resurrected from the physical dead; as he was delivered from the Cross in the near-dead position. His trusted friends knew it; that is why he was not given a customary funeral bath and nobody offered his funeral service.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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thisisoliposted 13 years ago
Rather than being put on the cross maybe he should have been thrown to the sodomites instead, since thats where he told many fathers to throw their daughters to welcome him and God instead.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What? Where do you get this?
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thisisoliposted 13 years ago
The Bible, I read it again while I was laid up in hospital
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah..right !!!
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  thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was meant to be discharged same day as teh operation, but I bled out quite a lot in recovery, had to stick around for a while, and hadn't brought any reading material of my own!
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So cite the chapter and verse that gave you this idea
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awareposted 13 years ago
the Romans used stakes not crosses . i saw that on history channel t
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aguasilverposted 13 years ago
However Christ was killed, he rose again and lives with us now, so what's the difference how He died?

He was innocent and therefore had no cause or reason to die, nobody else has ever had that situation, that's what made Him unique and the ONLY way for us sinners to get in to the Fathers love.
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Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
Cool.
I caught the reference to water; was just verifying.
Drat--I have no idea what colloidal silver even is. But very interesting; thanks for the reply!
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waynetposted 13 years ago
He died giving out easter eggs.....poor guy, next time get a license to sell easter eggs!
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aguasilverposted 13 years ago
Not in Spain... agua!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry..
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IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years ago
Promises...
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Onusonusposted 13 years ago
Since the day that God delivered the children of Israel from the bondage of Pharaoh in the days of Moses, they were commanded to make sacrifices of unblemished lambs on the day of passover in rememberance of their God who parted the seas and delivered them from captivity. This animal sacrifice was in similitude of the sacrifice of the only begotten Son of God who would deliver the world from the bondage of sin and death.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Onusonus
  
  This is all mythical. Would you kill your son or daughter for the sins of the passerbyes in the street? Why should God the Father set and example of highest cruelty of killing His innocent son for the sins of others?
  
  Paul and Church created this myth only for their own selfish motives. It has got nothing to do with Jesus or the Creator - God Allah YHWH or the forgiveness of sins of the human beings. Church propogates killing of the innocents and cruelty in the name of atonement of sins.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
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  Antecessorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "This is all mythical. Would you kill your son or daughter for the sins of the passerbyes in the street? Why should God the Father set and example of highest cruelty of killing His innocent son for the sins of others"
  
  I absolutely agree paarsurrey.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Antecessor
  
  I appreciate your agreeing with me.
  
  Thanks and regards
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God didn't kill his son..people did...
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you was a God, would you let people kill your son to prove a point? I wouldn't, guess I am more logical than God.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend marinealways24
  
  I agree with you; God won't allow people to succeed in killing Jesus, one of His loved ones',one of His Chosen Ones', a Messenger and Prophet .
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All prophets must die as well.
  
  They are messenger who are here to deliver a message from god and then go back home to god.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  Very truly
  
  Thanks
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Deborah Sexton
  
  Jesus was not killed on the Cross; it was not so desighned by the Creator- God Allah YHWH; hence people failed to kill Jesus on the Cross. This is what I am proving.
  
  It was neither desighned by God Allah YHWH; nor people could kill Jesus to prove him a false Messenger Prophet.It Just did not happen.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  how can you say you love JESUS and not do his will
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Davidsonofjesie
  
  Please elaborate.
  
  Thanks
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Friend paarsurrey
  
  Again I agree with you that 'Paul and Church created this myth only for their own selfish motives'
  
  But how is the Muslim religion different? how is Allah different from other Gods?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend pburger
  
  It is Quran/Islam/Muhammad who have defined the Creator- God Allah YHWH elaborately; others could not do it as their scriptures and religions are dead, I mean their scriptures are not in the original form they were revealed; hence their confusion. All living teachings of all other revealed religions have been, therefore, included in Quran, in a way to protect them; this is what has been mentioned in Quran very expressively.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend pburger
  
  Thanks for agreeing with me.
  
  Regards
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend pburger
  
  The Creator is manifest by His attributes; different nations have different names of the same Creator-God; Allah YHWH Ahura Mazda and many more are his names. Islam did not invent the name Allah; it was in use in Arab before Islam.
  
  Islam's contribution or peculiarity is explaining attributes of the Creator- God Allah YHWH in much detail. In fact the whole Quran is based on explaining the attributes of the Creator-God Allah YHWH.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
looking at the death of our flesh from his prospective is a totaly diffrent thing than looking at it from ours.
For God to allow Jesus to die is to bring him home.
The life as a catipilar must end for the butterfly to emerge.
I do not think that our consciousncess is the product of the flesh, but the other way around.
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  Antecessorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  FALLACY ALERT JERAMI!!!
  
  "I do not think that our consciousncess is the product of the flesh, but the other way around."
  
  Evidence?
  
  Does the property fluidity of water cause the existence of the water molecules?
  
  How can a property, which by its very terminology must belong, be the cause of that which it is a property of?
  
  Consciousness is a property of humans and their bodys, therefore it cannot cause those bodys. To say it does is illogical.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It takes conscious cells to make a conscious body and mind.
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  Antecessorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cells are not conscious,(by themselves) if you believe they are then give evidence and describe how.
  
  Water molecules are not fluid by themselves, not until they are combined with other water moles do they take on the property of fluidness. I thought I already explained this. Fluidity is the emergent property of many water moles under the local laws of physics. Fluidity comes from non-fluid particles.
  
  Consciousness is the emergent property of non-conscious neurons (organic logic gates), which when combined result in conciousness. Thats consciousness from the non-conscious.
  
  Really this is basic logic and I shouldnt have to explain this to someone of intelligence.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cells, have memory, defenses, communication which are all impossible without consciousness.
  Consciousness is impossible with unconscious neurons. Explain how you have faith that unconscious neurons design conscious thoughts and actions. They are combined through conscious communication. lol, Your logic is flawed and partially unconscious. You use more faith than logic. Raise your consciousness before you lecture on intelligence instead of stating things that are illogical.
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  Antecessorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  FALLACY OF ASSUMPTION.
  FALLACY OF INCREDULALITY.
  FALLACY OF STRAWMAN.
  
  "Cells, have memory, defenses, communication which are all impossible without consciousness."
  
  You assume, how do you know memory, defenses, communication are all impossible without consciousness.
  What about computers, they have all these propertys.
  
  "Explain how you have faith that unconscious neurons design conscious thoughts and actions"- M
  This is a strawman, and you know it.
  
  Do you "have faith" that non-fluid water moles "design" the property of fluidness?
  
  Of course not!
  That wouldnt make sense.
  No teleology (design implies teleology) is required, fluidity is the natural result of the water moles obeying the laws of physics.
  
  Think a little more, respond a little slower, and maybe your comments wont be so much non-sense. LOLOLOL
  
  In the same way that non-fluid water moles give rise to fluidity, so to do non-conscious neurons give rise to consciousness. No teleology (design implies teleology) is required, consiousness is the natural result of cells obeying the laws of physics. How many times do I have to repeat myself. Do you need me to spell out the big words or something?
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now you are getting worked up, thats the spirit. Why are you so emotional, not very logical.
  Did computers design themselves or did conscious minds design them?
  I think you are obsessed with this straw man character, maybe you should stop smoking the straw.
  Are you obsessed with water also?
  I don't think water molecules have consciousness such as cells, but you seem to have faith that they do. What is waters defense, communication, and memory?
  Consciousness is the result of conscious cells designing your conscious mind or lack of.
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marinealways24posted 13 years ago
Ante, I think you are getting so worked up because you have faith that cells having a level of consciousness is impossible, while you have little to no explanations. And you claim to be logical.
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  Antecessorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Straw man fallacys are the missrepresentation of an opponents position, generally done because the arguer recognises that the opponents logics is unassailable. You can once more committed this fallacy "I don't think water molecules have consciousness such as cells, but you seem to have faith that they do. What is waters defense, communication, and memory?"
  Since I have never claimed any of these things, and these are not my position, then this is a strawman set up for you to attack. Thank you for thereby recognising that my argument is correct and that you are unable to attack it directly.
  
  I think I have adequately explained that propertys such as fluidity and consciousness can come about from things that lack those propertys.
  
  As for not believing you when you say that cells are conscious, well if you can tell me how they are conscious, and explain to me exactly what consciousness is (how do you know what it is), then I would consider the possibility.
  
  Despite whether cells are conscious, the atoms that make cells up are not also conscious, or do you believe that too? So even were cells conscious, consciousness would still be a property of non-conscious matter.
  
  As for computers, you claim that "Cells, have memory, defenses, communication which are all impossible without consciousness."
  I showed that computers have all these things and yet are not considered conscious. This disproved this specific statement by you, nothing more, nothing less. So when you said "Did computers design themselves or did conscious minds design them" you once again missrepresented my position, thereby admitting its validity.
  
  Clay retains a memory of anything that comes into contact with it, in the form of an inprint, would you say that clay is also conscious?
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Onusonusposted 13 years ago
God being perfectly just and honorable, and unwilling to abide the presence of evil, has given to the universe the promise that mankind will be given the opportunity to return to him and live in his presence. With our return however we stand imperfect, and therefore by the laws of justice, are unable to remain in his presence.
It is the mediation of Jesus Christ who died in the most complete and senseless way, who was honored by all of creation as the only being to live on Earth without committing a single sin.
It is his mercy that God and the universe cannot deny, because of his perfect sacrifice. Therefore it is through his mercy and mediation, that we are able to stand in the presence of God.
Unequivocally, It is through his mercy that the laws of justice are satisfied, and that mercy has to be honored otherwise God would cease to be God and all would be lost.
For this reason the will of Christ, the Messiah, the deliverer, Jesus the son of God has to be honored by all of the intelligences of creation thus fufilling his roll as the deliverer and savior of mankind as prophecied by all of the ancient prophets of God.
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  Antecessorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well given your name, I guess you know the onus is on you to prove that mouthfull of a claim, onusonus?
  
  The fallacy of demanding negative proof is a fallacious inversion of the burden of proof principle that the individual making the ontologically positive claim bears an initial burden of proof. As has been said, the ontologically positive claim must first be substantiated with evidence and argument before the burden of proof shifts to the ontologically negative side. The falacy of demanding negative proof initially places this burden on the ontologically negative side. In other words, X (an ontologically positive claim) is not proven simply because "not X" cannot be proven.
  
  A popular form of the fallacy is the argument from ignorance.
  
  Since the fallacy of demanding negative proof depends on how the burden of proof is allotted, it works best in the absence of other factors which affect that burden. For instance, an objector might effetely wield the fallacy of demanding negative proof in the face of one presenting a new scientific theory. However, when other factors create a burden asymmetry, the fallacy loses much of its force, such as when conventional or community wisdom is strong. So, a burden of negative proof might be appropriate when there already exists strong community wisdom on the subject.
  
  Lastly, the fallacy of requiring negative proof does not apply to an ontologically negative claim. In other words, one is justified in making an ontologically negative claim and then requiring proof of the opposite. For example, it would be a fallacy of requiring negative proof to say, "A chair sits beside me; prove me wrong." On the other hand, it would not be fallacy to exclaim, "No chair sits beside me; prove me wrong."
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Also in a court of law one of the deciding factors of determining which side of the story is true, is based on eye witness accounts. In such a case of Jesus's sacrifice we have specifically the twelve men who testified to his birth, death, and resurection, which is more than enough people to sway the courts decision on who is telling the truth.
  
  W have the twelve whitnesses, Peter, Andrew, James the Greater, James the Lesser, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, Thaddeus, Simon, and Matthias who all claimed to have seen it first hand, and made a non-wavering declaration even to their dying days. as opposed to one Mohommed who made a conflicting claim hundreds of years later.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Onusonus
  
  None of the above persons was a first hand eye-witness of the even of Crucifixion of Jesus. Matthew himself have mentioned that all the so called "disciples of Jesus" had fled away and deserted Jesus. Why to blieve in their hearsay when they were not faithul to Jesus?
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually none of them were with him when he was given to the Pharasees for a trial. But they were present to see him hanging on the cross, they were given his body and buried it in the tomb, and then saw him risen after the third day thus fufilling the many, many, many prophecies concerning his life.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Onusonus
  
  None of the twelve you mentioned in your post were present at the scene of the Crucifixion of Jesus. Joseph Armethia and Nicodemus are only mentioned to have taken the injured body of Jesus from the Roman Officials and took him hurriedly to the spacious and airy tomb lest Jesus gets suffocated or succumbs to his wounds. One could now see the tomb on the internet by accessing:
  
  http://www.sacred-destinations.com/isra … arden-tomb
  
  Please quote the verses for your claims and reasons.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'll start off with Luke 23:49 "and all of his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Gaile, stood afar off, beholding these things."
  also read John19:25
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Onusonus
  
  Luke was not a disciple of Jesus; and he was not there at the scene of Crucifixion of Jesus. He must have spoken from hearsay.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
  
  Although the Gospel of Luke was written anonymously, the most likely candidate for the authorship of Luke-Acts is Luke the physician and sometime companion of Paul.[17] Yet scholars are evenly divided on the historicity of attributing this gospel to Luke.
  
  The Gospel of Luke is a secondary source based on earlier accounts of the life of Jesus.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually he was an apostle of Jesus as he testified of the divinity of Christ. and though he may have not been at the scene, the Holy Spirit bore the truth to him. Not only this but there is that looming possibility that the Apostles corrisponded with eachother as they were the ones that Jesus ordained to spread his gosple to the world. The fact is that the things the world knows about Christ come from his apostles and their writings. otherwise they are revealed to us by prophets through the whitness of the Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of truth. This is how we know that a Prophet is truely sent from God because they will not condradict one another as Mohamed did by denying that Jesus is the son of God, the mediator and advocate with the father. The entire new testament is the fufillment of the Old. The covenants made between God and the seed of Abraham all the way up untill this last and final dispensation of the Earth.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Onusonus
  
  I don't think Luke was an apostel of Jesus. He definitely spoke on hearsay.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You keep repeating this over and over, almost as if it was learned by rote.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Beelzedad
  
  I want that everyone should love Jesus and Mary, one of the perfect men and women, whom even the Creator- God Allah YHWH loved.
  
  There life account have been mentioned very truthfully.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, but what you want for everyone and what everyone else wants for themselves may be two completely different things, did you ever stop to think about that?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  I don't mind if others differ with me. They could have their opinion.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, you don't care what anyone else thinks, you will spread Islam whether they like it or not?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi .....
  
  i like everybody's freedom of religion. There is no compulsion in religion.
  
  I love Jesus nd Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You sound like a machine
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How can you come to that conclusion, Beelzedad?
  
  Viva la difference
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I value freedom of speech and can only say 'Paarsurrey has a signature line - so what?"
  
  My signature thought is 'Viva la difference!'
  
  Viva la difference!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How incredibly odd then that all your arguments and statements promote the exact opposite.
  
  Vive La Meme!
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Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
Teri,
I dunno.
I heard someone suggest that that particular one might be a bot.

I got tickled at "its" repetitive lines.
But then later at its hogwash! ahaha

There are always some people hiding behind screen names and anonymity....
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Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
Thanks Beelzedad; you explained it better!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My pleasure, Brenda.
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Lynda Garyposted 13 years ago
I didn't see mention of this yet, and I'm joining the conversation a bit late, but want to add some "science" (not stating my personal beliefs, which I keep to myself in the forums; just pointing out what the science reports, and a few irrefutable facts)

FACTS
Historically, when a person was condemned to die on the cross, their death is actually caused by SUFFOCATION. They literally suffocate till dead. It typically took 2-3 days for this to happen.

Also at that time in history, when a physician performed a surgical procedure, they used some kind of a chemical (I can't remember what and don't feel like researching) that was soaked into a sponge. The sponge was then placed over the nose and mouth. This induced a deep sleep state so that surgery or other painful procedures could be conducted.

A human body stops bleeding when the body is dead.

SCIENCE & CONCLUSIONS DRAWN THEREFROM
As reported in the bible, Jesus died within only a few hours. If he was truly dead, it was not from suffocation. So, what was it from?

As reported in the bible, a soldier placed a sponge upon the tip of a spear and held it up to Jesus' mouth. Hmmm. At that time, there was only one known reason to use the sponge like this. Providing water to a dying prisoner would've resulted in the guard's own death by crucifixion.

As reported in the bible, a guard stuck a spear into the lower side of Jesus. As depicted in ALL historical drawings and art work, that wound is bleeding. The bible refers to the bleeding from the wound. He was stuck with the spear, it is reported, to "make sure" he was dead. The dead do not bleed.

The spearing happened shortly after the sponge.

Is it not possible that Jesus' followers conspired to make it look like he was dead? Would this not explain why, generations later, the discovery of an entire family of those little stone boxes into which bones were placed for burial -- a family with the same names of the relatives of Jesus? (A study was done to determine the probability that it was Jesus' actual family, based on the recurrence of names, etc. According to the study, in all likelihood, this was Jesus' family, including Jesus, who supposedly died and resurrected many years before.)

Okay ... enough. I could post more facts and science to support the above theory, but I have work to do. LOL
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  -----------------blood and water came out------------------------
  i used to work at a slaughterhouse and the dead cows were hung upside down and their throats slit to drain the blood, the blood flows in a rivulet it doesn't pulse. The spear in the side of jesus drained the local blood but it was not a bleeding as such from a beating heart.
  "John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water". The original transcripts verify this saying exactly.. both water and blood came out.
  -----------the offerings of the fluid-------------------
  there were two offerings of fluid upon the hyssop:
  "Matthew 27:34 They gave him vinegar (as below) to drink mingled with gall (myrrh): and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink".
  "Mark 15:23 And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not. "
  this is the sophomoric or pain killer that would dullen his senses but at this stage jesus wanted to be mentally alert so he refused. G5521
  http://ww2.netnitco.net/~legend01/myrrh.htm
  "Until the invention of morphine and other modern painkillers, myrrh was a common analgesic. In ancient times it was often mixed with wine to make the drink more potent (Clarke's Commentary - Prov 9:4-5). As was the custom among the Jews, Christ was offered "wine mingled with myrrh" to ease the pains of the cross. However, He refused to drink it.
  "Mark 15:36""Matthew 27:48"
  John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
  John 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
  John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
  1) vinegar: a mixture of sour wine or vinegar and water which the Roman soldiers were accustomed to drink for refreshment. G3690
  Two different fluids, one accepted, one not accepted.
  
  ---------Christ gives up the ghost and dies voluntarily-----------
  Jesus gave up his spirit, he did not die, He was god he could have hung there for 2000 yrs and lived.
  Mark 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
  Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
  Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
  John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
  
  The timing was imperative that jesus be buried before the sabbath day which started at sunset 6ish pm Saturday the evening of his crucifixion . The third hour was 9am friday (3hrs after sunrise) the 6th hour was noon friday, christ hung there till 3pm friday... 3 hrs before sunset the start of the hebrew sabbath day, saturday. He still had to be prepared to be buried with cloths and perfumes etc and be in the tomb which they didn't have yet and needed to be arranged.. so christ did not have 3 days to hang around and wait till he died naturally, He GAVE UP his spirit.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How entertaining. So - the Jews did not kill him after all. He voluntarily died and did not suffer in any way shape or form. He could have lived there forever.
  
  Not much of a sacrifice then.
  
  No wonder your religion makes no sense and Kristians are a bunch of adulterous, law-breaking hypocrites. There was no sacrifice. Jeebus voluntarily died and made no sacrifice.
  
  Big deal.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  And anyway, what does it matter ?
  I don't see any change about sins, nor after, nor before .
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  zampanoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi tantrum.
  I definitely love that avatar of yours.
  Like your faces too.
  
  Someone takes the risk of becoming hypocrit as soon as he starts giving moral lessons to others.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi there !
  This religion forum is getting bored!
  I am thinking of founding a new religion
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  zampanoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
  But please ! Not as much S&M as the others.
  Ok ?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can I be the guy who has the shift of responsibility transferred to him when anything bad or evil happens?
  
  No, not the big kahuna, the other guy.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, you can't.
  You're not weird enough
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's the red nose and the huge smile, isn't it?
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're smiling too much ! It makes me feel like throwing a tantrum
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend tantrum
  
  You are very right; there is no relationship between sins of a person and Jesus dieing for it.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And the Machine goes on and on and on ...
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  What a voluntary death!!!!!???
  
  Was it a suicide?
  
  If it was a suicide; where is the price of the mythical sins?
  
  The facti is that Jesus did not die on the Cross; he survived death. The Creator-God Allah YHWH helped him save a death on the cross which would have made him a false prophet as per Torah.
  
  God Allah YHWH helped him save his life against all odds.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Lynda Gary
  
  I agree with you. The dead do not bleed; bleeding is a sign of life; not a sign of death.
  
  Pilate was not agree from his heart to crucify Jesus; to show this he washed his hands off .
  
  If we look into the Bible intently, we could see that Jesus' followers conspired with Roman officials to make it look like he was dead; though he was not dead but near-dead?
  
  Thanks
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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awareposted 13 years ago
there are ghosts in the machine. hi tantrum
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or Miami Sound LOL!
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awareposted 13 years ago
tantrum building a better idea of god is my idea. mines under construction as we speak. thing is tho its a studio apartment. a really frigging big one . but still only room for one believer. and i hold the lifetime lease. that's almost poetry.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Poetry indeed !
  I like the way it sounds!
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Hi friends

Coming to the topic:

Jesus did not die on the Cross; he never resurrected; he migrated from Judea; people made the myth that he has gone to the skies.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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Lynda Garyposted 13 years ago
"giving up the ghost" refers to the spirit within all of us. The body dies but the spirit goes on. Where it "goes" is a matter for debate, but this is what happens to ALL of us when we "pass on" (hence, the term "pass on." Our spirit passes on to somewhere else.

The books from which the above scripture is quoted were written decades after the fact. Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John all contradict one another, too, when it comes to "the story."

I fully believe that Jesus lived, that he was a disciple of God, and that he preached a damn good message. But I also believe in science, facts, and I do not overlook what we know about human behavior. To deny science, sociology, psychology, and all the other academics is just ludicrous.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey, i resemble that 'ludicrous' remark. jeje.
  actually, am a zealot heretic.
  
  I don't deny science or religion, just think both are the same.
  The Ism, duality -one classic one romantic. Even quality, which is a sort of reuniting.
  
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
"giving up the ghost"

Hi friend Lynda Gary

I agree with you.

As one could see the words "giving up the ghost" are not the words of Jesus; these are the words of a story teller. This might be his opinion. Since the story was written much later; the story writer here added his own opinion or his blind faith. In fact, this could mean that Jesus went into unconsciousness.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's the same with Islam, it was written after Muhammad's death by those who added their own opinions and used blind faith.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  Quran descended on the heart of Muhammad verbally bit by bit; it was a verbal Revelation as the Word Quran means. It was learnt by heart by Muhammad and his followers. The Revelation of Quran continued till the last year on Muhammad; when the whole Quran was repeated two time. It was all complete in Muhammad's own life.This verbal memorization is continued to our own times irrespective it is written or not.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Islam was invented by Muhammad, he was a murderer and despot. You have rejected the truth.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  It is only your opinion. You could not provide a valid reference. I don’t mind; there is no compulsion whatsoever.
  
  Have a nice day.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is the truth and you have rejected the truth. You are skeptical and should believe in the natural. Why are you skeptical and reject the truth?
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The truth according to what source? According to whom?
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Hokeyposted 13 years ago
He's really not dead!!!1 I found him!!!!

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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Hi friends

From Galilee along with Mary; Jesus went to India where the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel resided as mentioned by Jesus.

Matthew 15:24
And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep that are lost of the house of Israel.

http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=2&q … &b=drb

In Afghanistan, Kashmir, India people of the House of Israel resided.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And so ?
  You still with your fairy tales ? LOL
  
  About sheep and shepherds
  Who wants to be a sheep ?
  Craziness !
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually he went to America after he was resurected.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How interesting !
  So that's why America is the way it is !
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ms. "T" just wanted to say HAY.
  
  " HAY"
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi there Jerami ! Nice 2 C U !
  Happy Easter !
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And happy chocolate to you too.
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  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why would he go to the USA?
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Jane@CMposted 13 years ago
I suppose this means the Easter Bunny doesn't exist either - waaaaaa!
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure he does... He fills up baskets at Wallgreens every night and they make um avaliable for $9.95.
  
  On a serious note, we have taken everything out of context and can find realy good excuses anywhere we look for any behaveior that we want to be behavin in.
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Will Bensonposted 13 years ago
Jesus is dead.

Muhammad is dead.

I'm not feeling too well myself.
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  Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Have a chocolate egg, you'll feel better.
  
  Oh, and stay away from those wooden crosses.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Have two easter eggs, three hail marries, four excuses of your choice and a partridge in a pear tree.
  And if ya don't feel better by mornin take two asprins.
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  Will Bensonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's wooden? I thought it was chocolate.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I forgot to say "HAY" Jewels
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  Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hay Jerami, good to see you.
  
  A chocolate cross, now that would be good to see. You'd slip right off it. Sounds kinda sensual, sorta?
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That word sensual and chocholate in the same sentence gives me goose bumps.
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  Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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tantrumposted 13 years ago
I'm cross !
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Will Benson wrote:

Jesus is dead.

Muhammad is dead.

I'm not feeling too well myself

Paarsurrey says:

It is not clear what you want to convey. Please elaborate further.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
I was watching a program on TV last night about the schroud of Turan. There is no proof as to who was wraped in it. But there is enough documentation to indicate that it might have been the schroud that Jesus was wraped in.
The intresting thing about it is that it can not be duplicated.
Science can not duplicate the procedure that must have created this image on the scrroud.
To me this is enough proof of the resurrection.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lets face it Jerami - a dog turd is enough proof for you.
  
  Not even sure why you people bother posting this nonsense. It "might have been" therefore that is enough proof that the impossible happened for me.
  
  LOLOLO
  
  You guys are so desperate. First of all - it is actually "Turin".
  
  Have you even seen this thing? Are you aware that there are several replicated versions
  
  http://news.discovery.com/history/shrou … plica.html
  
  And it has been independently dated - with the approval of the Bishop of Turin - at around AD 1262 - 1384.
  
  http://www.shroud.com/nature.htm
  
  But - that is good enough "proof" to support your ridiculius beliefe.
  
  Good for you.
  
  So - now I have provided evidence that it is possible to replicate it - and it has been dated well after Christ (1300 years or so) - and have destroyed your "proof".
  
  What do you believe now?
  
  Let me guess.........
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am sure that you have already heard all of the arguements to this scientific study. but anyway ...
  
  It is my understanding that ...The pixels paterns would not have been produced by reproducing an image on a piece of linnen as suggested in the experiment.
  The piece of linnen that the carbondating was performed on was taken from an area that had been repaired (patched in) due to fire dammage around the 14th century.
  
  There are no claims that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Either side of the arguement can conclude as they wish.
  
  Another test needs to be performed.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the whole thing needs to be taken from a Gods-eye view. In other words, let's step back and get some larger perspective...
  
  Why would God send you and everybody else on some wild goose Easter Egg Hunt/Chase just to suss out the truth of his revelation.
  
  Makes no sense.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that God did...
  It was mankind that turned it all into a shell game.
  We see it in Congress all of the time.
  When one person brings up a point of intrest that should recieve immediate attention, This may not be to someone elses best interest so everyone on that side of the issue starts chanting so loudley that the first person can not be heard.
  
  something like that anyway.
  And it never hurts to introduce 100's of diffrent non related opinions further silencing the first issue.
  Works every time.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'd say Christians took a wrong turn trying to convince people using "historical evidence". Either Jesus Christ is the Deity or he isn't. I don't see what difference it makes whether some Gospel writers got some stuff wrong or not, or whether some shroud is legit or not... This would be a weird way for God to go about things... relying on people's ability to figure out historical-critical, source-critical, and artefactual evidence...
  
  To be honest, I think of a lot of Christians are secretly just history buffs who relish the excuse to talk and think about history.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea you might be right..
  But then it may have started when somebody asked.
  "Why do you believe what you do"
  or they said that we are stupid for believing diffrently than them.
  For Believers I think it all started when Religiousity started telling too many diffrent versions of what is TRUTH.
  
  I want to what I believe and why.
  Which of the 100s of versions is true?
  There must be a truth ???? somewhere ???
  I would like to recognize it if I get to see it.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's the truth. Ready...
  
  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The rest is just a distraction
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  DevLinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The ultimate truth
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me.
  
  No - it has been proven conclusively that it is older than your imaginary friend. Four independent tests and the Bishop of Turin agree that, "The results of radiocarbon measurements at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich yield a calibrated calendar age range with at least 95% confidence for the linen of the Shroud of Turin of AD 1260 - 1390 (rounded down/up to nearest 10 yr). These results therefore provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is mediaeval. "
  
  Plus -it has been proven to be replicated and teh Katholiks make no claim of anything - unlike you - have you actually seen this shroud?
  
  But - causing confusion and conflict by lying and using semantics to dodge the facts is far, far more important to you than anything else. And - once again - I thank you for opening my eyes to this indisputable fact. Your religion is more concerned with spreading its hatred than anything else. Thank you for teaching me that there is no god and the jesus myth is a lie.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Jerami
  
  Even if the shroud of Turin is genuine; it is not a proof of resurrection of Jesus; rather it is a proof of the person who was wrapped in it; that he did not die on the Cross. He survived death in the first place so there is no question of his resurrection. If people did not see him roaming in Judea; he was preparing for migration. When he was prepared for that alongwith Mary and other trutsed friends he set off to India.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Turin Shroud, The Qur'an, and The Bible are all roughly equal in terms of valid sources... ie., they all "suggest" their own reliability, I mean, they all "seem" reliable, but there is no more reason to believe them than Caesar's account of conquering Britain.
  
  In other words, to believe in the Muslim interpretation of Jesus' life, whether based on Hadiths, The Qur'an, or The Gospels themselves, is roughly the same as believing in the Turin Shroud... why do you believe one over the other?
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ... yeah.. where he obviously set up a samosa stand and became a cricket star..
  
  riiiight
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
That is true .. But? what if I'm a Maschoist ??
Sorry just thought I'd leave on the funny side.
Gotta go do some stuff.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Hi friend AdsenseStrategies wrote:

In other words, to believe in the Muslim interpretation of Jesus' life, whether based on Hadiths, The Qur'an, or The Gospels themselves, is roughly the same as believing in the Turin Shroud... why do you believe one over the other?

Paarsurrey says:

Muslims don't own Shroud of Turin; it has all along in the custody of "Christians".

We believe in the Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH and all other reasonable and sensible sources of finding Truth.

Jesus did not die a cursed death on cross he died a natural and peaceful deatho in India.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You did not understand Usmanali.
  
  "Reasonable" and "sensible" does not apply to your beliefs.. The words you seek are "irrational" and "ridiculous".
  
  Thank you Usmanali for listening to the Truth.
  
  Peaceful, rational atheist here.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK, let's reword this. The Turin Shroud is counted as valid evidence based on what? The Gospels are counted as valid evidence based on what? Faith...ultimately.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend
  
  What is harm in faith if based on reason and Revelation? Both are like two legs one walks with or like two eyes with whom one sees more clearly without contradiction.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's one-legged. Reason, yes. An all-compassionate, all-merciful all-powerful God who clearly intervenes in human affairs on occasion (as in Gabriel's appearance to Mohammed) would not allow the degree of suffering of the innocents we see in our world. It is NOT REASONABLE OR LOGICAL... It is quite literally a contradiction.
  
  As for Revelation, well, who is to say what is Revelation and what is not. God, if he exists in the form you claim, gave you a brain to think critically with. The very "gift" of that brain implies we are meant to use those criticial faculties... The critical faculties of a reasonable person would warn us to be skeptical of anyone who claims to "know" something has been revealed to them.
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  pburgerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually AdsenseStrategies,
  
  While I am not a religious person, I think you undermine your first point because you use logic to assert something is illogical...Where is the evidence to support your claim? And strictly speaking we have several different types of logic...
  
  As for revelation - Einstein based his theory of relativity on revelation; and he waited several years before other people managed to verify the theory. So the legend goes, Einstein sat on a bus and imagined what it would be like to travel on light beam...He then drew on mathematics to express the view he imagined...
  
  Viva la difference!
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Your religion is more concerned with spreading its hatred than anything else.
===============================================

If you see anything hateful in anything that I have said ???
You have an active imagination.
The piece of linnen that was cut from the shroud was dated to be medievel, correct. It was later proven to be a combination of two materials indicating that a repair had been made and this area is what was tested.

As you say..Nothing has been proven conclusifely.
And yes there are numerious ways in which an image can be put on linnen but not that was avaliable at the time that can replicate the apearance of the pixils.
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1. 58
  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Back pedaling. LOL
  
  So - your religion does not subscribe to the idea that Jesus died and was risen to save those that believe in him? LOLOL
  
  Pure hate mongering.
  
  Proved? LOLOLO Each lab got a different piece - and LOLOL this is just politicking to defend your irrational hate filled belief
  
  See - when you treat me like an idiot in this fashion - using absolutes that are no such thing - I get offended.
  
  And putting words in to my mouth when I said no such thing - well - Yes - that is offensive also.
  
  And yes - I did add a link to a group that had replicated the shroud using techniques available in the 1300s.
  
  Still - it is far more important that you do not back down - is it not? Like wot jeebus sed. Defend the faith against the unbelievers at all costs!
  
  I am sure interested to know why Jeebus was resurrected from the dead in your new Kristian religion though.
  
  Pray tell.
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2. 49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  Let us suppose if the shrowd of Turin was genuinely the cloth wrapped on Jesus in the Gordon Tomb . How the image could have been formed on the cloth. Those who have been closely interested in the Shrowd may disclose for us.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  58
  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually the Jeramy said part at the top of that post was not me...
  I'm bad ... Computer inept also... that was mark that said that and I responded.
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58
Jeramiposted 13 years ago
If you took it upon yourself to do so; ....
you can quote a dozen diffrent so called experts in any field, finding contradictions in their claims.
Thus proving that the entire field of study is flawed.
Therefore unworthy for consideration??????

You continue to state that "religion" is full of hate.
You are correct. The entire world inside and outside of religion is full of "Hate".
We are all hypricrits.. We see in the world those things that we are made of. But we tell ourselves that everyone else is ate up with it, while we are only slightly infected.

Everybody is right and everybody is wrong.
Anyone that says that they know very much ; "with all certainty" should be watched with all caution.

And as far as back pedaling is concerned ??
We recognize in others that which we are doing ourselves.
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1. 58
  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Awwwww. How sweet - still managed to avoid all my questions though. Very well done. Love the semantics - very, very good - nothing is proven etc therefore etc.......
  
  Have you seen this shroud that proves your faith?
  
  So - anyway - this is proof enough for you that the impossible happened?
  
  Never made any bones about it actually. I hate your religion and do not pretend to love you. I am all about attacking it. I think it is a bad thing. Am I wrong to attack a bad thing?
  
  Was I not clear?
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  58
  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your responce in this last post looks kinda like a copy and paste that you have for most all threads and posts that you make in the religion and beliefs forum.
  One size fits all. I think that you may have been hating religionists for too long. ???
  And if it makes you feel better ?
  I don't LOVE you either.
  BUT.. I do respect your rights to hate everythAng if ya want to.
  In your zeal You may not have noticed I'm not much in favor of religiousity either.
  I just choose to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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  58
  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Denial - it's a wonderful thing - you are just convincing yourself that you have thrown out the bathwater yet have not- that is the problem with denying reality.
  
  So - what have we here?
  
  You avoid my questions
  You make blanket statements to support your ridiculous beliefs that you feel obliged to defend in the face of genuine facts to the contrary
  You deliberately lie about what I have said
  You judge me and presume to tell me what I am thinking
  You tell me you do not believe in religiosity, yet defend the bible and the ludicrous notion that Jesus came back from the dead
  
  Sounds like you kept the bathwater to me.
  
  And I genuinely think your religion is evil and destined to continue to cause conflict. Therefore I am against it. Convince me otherwise.
  
  You arguing with me using semantics to defend your belief that the shroud of Turin - which I am now assuming you have never seen - proves your beliefs are valid and I am an idiot for suggesting that coming back from the dead is total garbage - is not doing anything to convince me.
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  58
  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark I do not have a word of wisdom that will satisfy your thirst.
  I'm bad..... I do not understand the .."all powerefl"
  I do know that I am not "I AM" and leave it at that. If there isn't anything greater than me ????? We are all in for a lot of trouble cause if "I AM AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN" iF THIS IS ALL THAT THERE IS???? you ARE IN A LOT OF TROUBLR
  
  SO ! TO ANSWER YOUT QUESTION ?... ARE you AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN OR AM I ??
  The answer is.. NO ! .. somebody else is !
  reply report
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
AdsenseStrategies wrote:

God, if he exists in the form you claim, gave you a brain to think critically with. The very "gift" of that brain implies we are meant to use those criticial faculties... The critical faculties of a reasonable person would warn us to be skeptical of anyone who claims to "know" something has been revealed to them.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend AdsenseStrategies

A normal man, like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were; were not always critical; it is not a normal mode of a man. Man has to be a wholesome person; need not be always critical.

To be Skeptic or to be always in doubt and confusion is an abnormality.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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1. 59
  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may want to change your Taqiyaa tag line from time to time as it shows up as a blatant contradiction to the other contradictions you spout.
  reply report
  49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Beelzedad
  
  It is just an expression of my faith in short; my identity. We have been persecuted for it in many places and are still being persecuted; I paid its price for being steadfast on it.
  
  You may also express your faith; I don't mind.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  59
  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, it isn't, it is a tactic employed by a number of Islamic propagandists like yourself who scour the forums and do exactly what you're doing.
  
  That is a lie. Taqiyaa.
  reply report
49
paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
ovemychris writes:

I saw something wild about that once too...
A tv show...When Jesus was on the cross, and the Roman guard supposedly gave him vinegar to make him suffer, what he really gave him was Hysop...which was a plant that gave you the effect of being dead...it stopped your heart temporarily, but you were really still alive...kind of like the vodoo zombie thing they do with drugs or herbs....
That's how they took him down but he was still alive.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40177?page=3

Paarsurrey says:

Thanks you friend ovemychris

Regards
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76
Mr Niceposted 13 years ago
PLEASE DO NOT FIGHT ABOUT RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCES LOVE THE HUMANITY BECAUSE.........

"To love another person is to see the face of God." ~ Victor Hugo

LIFE IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.....IT'S ALL ABOUT........

"Where would man be today if it wasn't for women? In the Garden of Eden eating water melon and taking it easy." C Kennedy
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70
Pearldiverposted 13 years ago
Well.......... BS or not where would we be without Hot-X Buns?
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1. 58
  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhhh. No argument there.
  
  Hmmmmmmmmm, hot cross buns, arghhhhhhhhh
  reply report
  59
  tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
49
paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Jesus did not die on the Cross
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61
errum fattahposted 13 years ago
oh look at these people parrsurrrey, they said jesus died on the cross and then they say jesus is God, jesus is alive, jesus is this jesus is that, they took uturn. does this make sence that first they say jesus is not dead and then they say jesus is dead. Brenda Durham is a sick sock, sick puppet.
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1. 49
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend errum fattah
  
  Is it not weird that the Christians try to kill Jesus on the Cross like the Jews did.
  
  Where is their love for Jesus; they should be thankful to Muslims that we save Jesus a cursed killing on the Cross.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  61
  errum fattahposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yae ofcourse we saved our lovely prophet jesus, v didnt wanted him to leave us, he will come again. and will protect us, then wat will be the reaction of christians and wat will be thier expressions?
  reply report
49
paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
coming to the topic "Jesus did not die on Cross"
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60
zzronposted 13 years ago
Mark 15:25 in the bible says he did die on the cross. I dont make the news, I just report it.
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