What is the meaning of grace?
Grace is a fascinating subject. I believe that the Bible is the only book that promotes it as a characteristic of God. No other sets of spiritual beliefs talk about it. As I study the Bible's idea of grace, it is amazing, as the song goes. First of all, God shows universal grace in creating all people and giving them life from day to day; every breath you and I breathe and every heartbeat we experience is from God's universal grace, regardless of our the quality of our lives. (Look at Psalm 145.) You'd think that God's human creatures would be more grateful.
God also shows his special grace to all who love him by enabling them to believe in and follow him. Why does he accept us who trust and love him, even though we're far from perfect? He does because of his grace. The basis for his grace is nothing in us but everything in the God-man Jesus, whose perfect life and death on the cross in our place earned for believers God's grace. As a result, we transformed believers are pronounced "not guilty" and "right" with God, our Judge inspite of our many imperfections. It's God's grace that accepts and answers believers imperfect prayers that come to heaven.
I've described God's grace, but what is it? I believe on the basis of the Bible that God's grace is his free, unconditional, undeserved acceptance of all who have come to know and love him as the true 3-in-1 God of the Bible. It is his grace that enables believers to love people with whom they disagree, because they have received that same kind of grace first. It is also that grace and love that enables us to do good works for others as a result of his "amazing grace" in our lives.
What is your concept of grace? Why do you believe that grace is to be defined that way?My Pastor gave the best common sense explanation of the difference between mercy and grace I have ever heard. Here is how it goes:
You are driving faster than the speed limit and you know it. An officer catches you and rather than giving you a ticket tells you that you go to the same health club or church as he does so he is going to let you off the hook. He tears up the ticket that he is writing you. That is mercy. Mercy is forgiving someone who doesn't deserve it.
You are driving faster than the speed limit and know it. An officer catches you. He not only rips up the ticket he was going to give you but gives you a gift card to your favorite restaurant. That is grace. Grace is not only forgiving someone who doesn't deserve it but giving them a gift they don't deserve. That is what God did for us!Deleted
Why do you include the Jews?
They know what Grace is.Hi, Deborah. Sorry that it took so long for me to respond to your post. I was away from the Internet for awhile. What I was saying is that the Jews of Jesus' time and the conservative ones today believe like other non-Christian belief systems that our good actions contribute to earning God's love, according to the information that I have. Christian faith based on the Bible says that God's rescue through the God-man Messiah Jesus comes completely by his free acceptance (grace) because of Jesus' perfect life, death, and resurrection. All other belief systems that I know of include at least some human achievement to measure up to God's expectations, including the Jewish one. If I am wrong, please show me chapter and verse of the Jewish Scriptures and teaching.
Thanks for your input, Deborah!
Grace for me, it means the power of salvation through God’s wholly generous and unmerited act of mercy, in our behalf.
It signifies the operation of God in the heart of man, affected through the Holy Spirit, regenerating us through new birth in Christ!
It is the Gift of God—freely given. And it is unmerited favor and love.
Grace is Divine mercy! It is a virtue of Supreme excellence! It denotes an uncommon love from God's Divine disposition of mercy!
It is His Divine provision of salvation through the gospel of Christ!
Paul stated at Romans 11:5-6: “…if it is by grace, then it is no more of works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.”
Grace in this sense is an action on God’s part that proceeds 'entirely' from Him; which is brought about in no way by anything done by the ‘receiver’ of this grace. Only of God!
Wonderful topic to contemplate! Thanks for the question!You're welcome, exjwlaurie. Thanks for your excellent summary!!
Grace means friendship with God. Following the Original Sin, our First Parents fell and lost the friendship of God.
Grace is a substance, like water is a substance. But Grace is a supernatural substance, created by God, which animates the soul and is its respiration. Grace gives life, spiritual life. And the man without Grace, has no spiritual life, for he has not the Love of God in his soul. In this, he is not saved.
Redemption, is the work of gaining back Grace for human beings, by paying the debt for sin owed by man to God. Salvation, is the work of applying that Grace to man. Justification, is the work of man cooperating with God's Grace in order to live a just, holy life.
Grace, truly is unique to Christianity since its purpose is the deification of man. As St Peter says in his second epistle, man is meant to share in the divine nature. This work, is the purpose of Redemption and can only be achieved through the life of Grace, which is Love, the completion of the Law of Sinai.Hi, stephanie. I agree about grace and redemption, but I don't believe that the Bible says that we become God. Is that you idea? Sharing in the divine nature does not mean becoming God, who is everywhere-present, all-knowing, all-powerful, and eternal. As creatures we can't have those characteristics, but we can receive his qualities of love, peace, and all of the other fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22,23).
PLEASE WATCH THIS STORY OF A SLAVE OWNER WHO PRAYED AND WROTE: AMAZING GRACE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xQFYWXPrxsNAh! Don't like being shouted at.
I don't read link stuff posted by people who SHOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's usually very poor quality and has an agenda.
Grace? as far as a god is concerned is non-existent, like the supposed god it is supposedly about.
I have always thought of grace as that which connects us to God which cannot be severed no matter how we try to sever that connection.
Thank you for your reply, Deborah. Our daughter has your first name, so we're partial to that name. I'm interested in why you say that grace isn't immunity and why you say "bah" to the Trinity. I'd just like to understand people who respond better.
- Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
0freedom FROM choice.
total -and i mean total- absence of fear/judgement for action.
action of pure faith.
free will.
grace as mercy?
freedom from condemnation for lack of action or mistakes.
ability to choose until faith comes.I agree with you, Twenty One Days, that grace involves freedom from condemnation for our actions through Jesus, but I would say that it is the ability to choose God when faith comes. Faith comes with grace and then gives us the abilities to choose, believe in, and serve God (Ephesians 2:8-10). It seems to me that God's grace, according to the Bible is a little different from mercy, since the latter is sympathy in action, another divine quality, whereas grace has the quality of God's free acceptance as his power that enables believers to show grace to everyone because we received God's amazing grace first.
Nice to read your response here too, Twenty One Days!.
- Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago0
Contrary to Twenty One,
I believe grace includes the freedom TO choose, not the absence;
and the presence of fear/judgement for action is what allows that grace to apply to us.
As far as elaborating on the original question,
grace is what God offers us even though we don't deserve it
and it's what we can impart to some degree to others even though none of us have it to impart unless God gives it through us.
It doesn't imply lack of judgement, though, because that's always a quality and a right of God.*******************************************
I agree with you Brenda
Grace is not free will. It is compassion of God.
God wanted mankind to worship and love him but he didn't want robots. He wanted people to love him by choice so he gave us free will. With free will people chose the pleasure of life over God.
Grace is God's understanding that free will is a weakness with us. We are easily tempted.
But we have to live the life God intended..created in his image.
We do have the ability to overcome because our spirit came from God.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"
Yahshua taught and showed us that even in the flesh we can be like him. That was his whole point. We can but do we want to ?Thanks for your response, Deborah. Our daughter is named Deborah, so we like that name. I agree with you in large part. You might read and study Ephesians 2:1-10, where Paul, under God's inspiration, writes that we are dead to God when we are born, come alive by his Spirit's power through Jesus by grace through faith, and become his workmanship (work of art) accomplishing his will in serving him--all by his power and to his credit, not at all to ours. Other passages declare that we are born blind (John 9) and deaf to God and that he gives us the new birth to resurrect our lives (John 3:1-16) so that we can choose and follow Jesus.
But this is simple religious indoctrination. How can anyone or anything be "dead to god" if god is all pervasive? The Alpha and Omega? With exceptions. LOL Total and utter religionist nonsense.
Sad in fact and further proof - if anyone needed any - that your god is a figment of your imagination and your religion is divisive warmongering.Thanks for your comments, Mark. Let me illustrate what I believe to be the deadness to God that we are born into. For the first 16 years of my life, I was dead to him. When my mother "dragged" me to church and I would rather have been home with Dad, the few words about God in the hymns about him and in the messages made no impression on me. Furthermore, Bible-oriented summer camp with Bible stories and preaching met with my full resistance and with no permanent change in my self-centered life.
Moreover, I tried prayer when I desired a shiny red bicycle in the hardware store window but I never got it. As a result, my pragmatic mind gave up prayer as useless. These details are some of my deadness to God. I was like a rich person seeking to be served by his cook and maid (God). I didn't realize that he is not our servant to fulfill our every selfish desire, but that he rules all things and wants to give us blessings that are good for us, but not our every whim. We often don't know what's good for us.
I believe what the Bible reveals: God is everywhere, but humans have alienated themselves from him. In response, he blesses them with life, health, food, places to live; but they don't often give him the credit that is due him. How often do people think about and pray to the 3-in-1 God who has blessed them with all of the provisions for life, especially in America, by and large?
I believe what the Bible reveals, that he has existed always and everywhere, but many humans ignore or actively disbelieve in him, actions which are not God's fault. He is very patient in calling them to trust in him.
I was definitely dead to God (my rebellion, not his defect) by ignoring him like my Dad until we attended a new church, where the biblical message came through loud and clear that God was 3 Persons in one God, Jesus is fully God and human, and that the whole Bible is from God.
After God gave me the miracle of the new birth (John 3:1-18), I no longer ignored him but was eager to read, study, and hear messages from his Word, the Bible. I eagerly attended church without being "dragged." Previously, I had hated attending church and helping my mother in the garden, whereas I wanted to do both afterwards. He convinced me on the basis of biblical evidence that he is real, Jesus is the God-man, and that the whole Bible reveals him. God convinced me of those truths as historical because of the trustworthy eyewitnesses of Jesus' actual death and resurrection. They were willing to face persecution and even death without giving up their testimonies to the reality of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.
He continues to change my life for the better by enabling me to overcome my anger about deaths in our family and the dysfunctional family in which I grew up and replace it with his peace that he promised in Philippians 4:4-7. He also overcame my lust for women who aren't my wife and addiction to pleasure (TV and sports). He also took away my anger about 24-year-old chronic pain and daily migraines, both of which he is also gradually relieving.
These are some ot the ways that I was "dead" to God and have made "alive" to him. I was alienated from God, but he changed me from his enemy to his friend. That's another way to express that biblical truth in my experience.
I don't understand your charge that my "religion is divisive warmongering." Please give me specific instances; we can't have a dialogue otherwise.
I invite your response, Mark!
*********************************************
Since Paul's beliefs conflict with what Yahshua taught
I do not learn from Paul. I no longer read his epistles
We are not dead to God ever.
I don't believe what Christians believe..sorry.Hi, Deborah! Thanks for your input. How do Paul's teachings conflict with Jesus' teachings? I'm curious. Could you please be specific?
I believe that Paul is just as much a prophet as the twelve apostles, He persecuted and even killed Christians by thinking that he was doing God's will, but he was actually persecuting and opposing Jesus (Yahshua) as the God-man. Then, Yahshua met him in God's bright light on the road to Damascus, an event to which Paul consistently testified even in the face of persection and death. God changed him into a preacher of the same Jesus that he had previously persecuted.
I ask again, with what of Paul's teachings do you disagree as inconsistent with the Gospels? I always try to understand people's beliefs, to which they are entirely entitled.
I agree with you totally, Brenda. Thanks for your response. See my response to Twenty One above.
- Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago0
Brenda, it is not in contrast, it is superseding.
Mercy (freedom) to choose faith.
Grace (free will) to exceed needing to choose by being faith.
i thought you of anyone would have figure that out.
We always have a choice until we die.
And we have to make choices daily; one of those is even likely to be the choice to keep following Him.
And we're back to that thing called conscience. We all have one. It's to be used, not discarded.Brenda, if every day it is a choice, a need, a struggle to follow him, how is that the burden of light? a yolk of ease, the peace -during the actual storm?
not discarding superseding choices, conscious need and simple just doing in 100% faith. Why is it so hard for believers to just do. there is no condemnation or consequence for the works of faith in him, yes? it is as easy as getting out of the boat "no matter what".
The mind of faith says, "Yes Lord and amen" (we are one in this, together, united, walking, in sync). The mind of choice says, "I dunno if I should, I might get in trouble, someone might notice."
this is my meaning...It dawned on me the other day what TOD is talking about. ~When I drive to work, I'm not conciously thinking about when to dip the clutch to change gear, matching against throttel and brake, or how to steer. It all happens without being much aware of it. I drive on auto-pilot and somehow end up in work an hour later barely aware of the journey.
The point of living in Christ is that our walk with Him should also be largely unconcious. Islam and Judaism are fuill of laws and conditions that the adherant has to be continually focusing on, making sure they are living in accordance with them. Christians often end up doing the same thing over Christ's teaching and worrying about how they are doing as a faithful witness, or worriying about their level of faith.
Christ calls us just to be, to not worry about rules and regulations, or how we are doing in Him. As long as we are seeking first the Kingdom of God and His righteouness, it all comes naturally. We are fill with His Spirit who changes us according to His timetable.
So grace is living without conciuously following rules and regs. We just be ourselves trusting that He is changing us and that His sacrifice has covered our sin. We don't have to make choices about faith, as we just accept our position in Christ and do whatever our hand finds to do.Christians have laws to follow just like those other cults.
Hence, the problem and the conflict begins.Q, list these supposed laws, please. Thank you.
Yes, Q, I'll admit that God's law in the Bible still applies to my life, but the difference between Christian beliefs and those of the cults and other world religious beliefs is that God rescues us first through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection by grace (God's unconditional, undeserved acceptance). The result of God's free gift of the new birth (John 3) is a thankful life living out the Bible's principles as God's adopted children, not unwilling servants. That's what I believe and have experienced. You can believe as you wish.
Thank you DH, if I could shake your hand, I would.
You get it.
Exactly, no matter what you do, because you have taken the step to go beyond choice, everything you do will become pure. Your mind will go with your spirit, not lead it. It will be restored as a tool allowing the spirit to manifest the true human being, just as Y`shua demonstrated post resurrection. This is Grace, this is putting on the robes of righteousness, putting on incorruptible, walking in faith.
This is a really good discussion; thanks to everyone. The way I see the Bible, Jesus objected strongly and Paul roundly criticized the Pharisees' relationship to rule and regulations (the Law and their 1,000 added rules). Paul was a strict Pharisee himself before the risen Jesus made him into a preacher of Jeeus.
Anyway, Christians, unlike other believers, are not to have the same relationship but instead a personal relationship with the 3-in-1 God, who rescues them by grace through faitth. Then, they live a free life desiring to follow Jesus and his principles in the Bible, not because they have to but because they want to as the Father's children. It's God's grace, not Law, that then guides them.**************************************************************
If God's law (not 1000) does not guide you and you don't have to do anything but have faith...why didn't God just fix mankind...why was Yahshua needed? Yahshua was the example to follow..but you believe once we have faith..we can go on with life and we don't need the 10 commandments?You really don't see it -after all this time, DS? Really?!
The law does not guide you, it keeps you until faith came.
Not one yod of the law was removed. It doesn't need to be, it was fulfilled/superseded (consumed) by the manifest faith, Y`shua. The point is not one stroke of the law can bring you to Life. It can control your weaknesses for awhile, but the end result of the law is death.************************************************************
After all this time it is you who can't see truth.
I believed what you believe years ago. But now I understand.exactly my point, DS.
I asked a question,
you took my words and formed an implication statement.
then justified saying you once believed like me when you have no clue what I believe...
I guess my knowledge of your ideology is increasing and -injecting my opinion- disheartening.*********************************************
I do know what you believe because you constantly post it.
If it was a question it wasn't phrased correctly.
But then you always write in riddles.It's a cool way of saying noything, sounding as you do
1. It was question and a curious second question.
2. You must be good at riddles then.
3. Please tell me exactly what it is I believe then.You believe you're right
I believe you're wrong !*******************************************
You belief
1. That your faith that you are OK with God is all you need.
2. Don't have to seek righteousness
3. Salvation of mankind depended only on Christ
4. You don't have to read scripture because the Holy Ghost will teach you all things
5. That faith/unity of the mind means accepting duality
6. Because Yahshua fulfilled the law you don't have to.
7. That because Yahshua fulfilled the law it means he ended it and you don't need to follow the law
8. It was the death of Yahshua that saves you and not following his example.
9. That Yahshua and God are the same
and blah, blah, blah1.5 outta 9 is not good DS.
anywho, have a g-reat day.
hubpagesouakbar!I can find the forums threads where you post 1, 5, 9
But I guess you believe something new todayone point five out of nine doesn't show how you know my beliefs in any manner, DS.
I have 2,222 posts, go for it.******************************************************************
You have to know how to look for them
See a few below..More to come
*****************************************************************
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40731?p … ost1002893
my question is why would He return.
1. He did the work.
2. Ascended to the Father.
3. Went to prepare a place for us.
4. Sat down (having finished His work).
5. Sent us the Teacher to lead and guide into all truth.
The resurrected body is every believers promise now, not when or if.
Yes, believers need to start doing instead of yapping it up.
This world is theirs, all of it.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/41477?p … ost1000275
"help with what? His own words say he was a willing servant, even to the point of blood-sweat remained humble and alert to the Fathers desire, making his blood the forgiving atonement for even those outside."
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40731#post995437
"Certainly;
Living in a complete stasis of Grace/Free Will -fully aware in spirit, brain, body. Unity with Creator. This is what Adam was before that consciousness/sin. This was the risen Savior.
By different, meaning separate, yes. How else can the world believe unless they see it? By faith, we should hope everyone would. But not only for the world but mostly for the believing. It is the believing that have the most trouble with faith, not the unbelieving."
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/42965?page=2#post995464
Twenty One Days wrote:
Christ is Anointing.
So, the proof people are looking for in the man Jesus and his work is evident in the Anointing, which include the human attributes/application of the anointing (healing, water walking, fire protection, etc). All these expressions are to show every human that even the fundamental elements around them are submissive to them, when they are in the anointing. Else, they are naked/unclothed and they become submissive to the elements around them. (sickness, fear, death, etc.)
Jerami is spot on: the only true way to understand the Anointed is to be anointed. Then that evidence expounds.
To add to it, the two elements united are the Teacher.
The Word & The Testimony = The Spirit
-which reveals all enigma/mystery aka prophecy
-leads, guides INTO all truth. That's powerful! Not just to show us the door, but to walk through that door and BE the word & testimony!
I dunno how else to say it: this is salvation, renewal of the mind, regeneration of the spirit, free will, grace, eternal life, etc etc etc.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40731#post1001475
I agree. This is quite the issue.
Those saying they are anointed of Him as opposed to those living that Anointing. It would cause a huge regeneration -as in the days of early believers, if not greater- when people saw, heard, felt and knew the truth -evident by the works of the Spirit.
Many of the present day teachers think/are convinced of themselves, and not convinced of the Truth. These are dangerous minds only because they are spreading their own limitation everywhere, while the people of the earth continue to struggle.
This world now fully belongs to the believing and when people step up in that Anointing, will once and for all remove the very remnants of sin. The religious are waiting for Y`shua to do it yet again, but He has already done it on our behalf. It is long overdue that people start living it. Course, I have been called a heretic for even suggesting this...
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40731#post1001477
I appreciate your sarcasm, SpanStar and in many ways understand.
Again, they might not tell you this, but there is not a set number of how many. It is an open door policy. Everyone has the seed of faith. So, living in Grace is growing that seed and having it bear the fruit of Life. Unlike the present idea that 'the faith' is the salvation. Most do not really understand what salvation is, and that is part of the problem. Salvation has become a religious quest, almost a war in itself. But is a very simple thing: Think of it as Choice then Free Will, instead of textual/ritual propaganda and flying saucers.
As for the human logical necessities (degrees) they are not necessary. Our bodies, minds & spirits already have the understanding of the elements around us.Wow. I am supposed to be impressed. And am, to some degree. But certainly not convinced or won over or wooled over either.
So based on the meager posts you provided, literally, where did you get 9 systematic finalization regarding my beliefs.
I can only regard your reminds, and work in searching, as flattery -of which am nonetheless, despite my obvious dislike for your position and use of flattery to gain friendship.
All those do point to a single measure, which you and I seem to generally part on -my sight of grace v your sight of slavery.
So again, out of 9 mentions, none actually define my beliefs, based on the posts you inquired. Therefore, one can only assume you scrambled an already cooked egg, in the hopes of saving face in light of my request. While I do -most publicly- thank you, DS, you have not told me exactly what it is I do or do not believe.
BIG PS, they weren't 1,5,9. I said 1 POINT 5 or 1 1/2 points our of 9, of which I gave no indication -whatsoever- regarding which of the nine you provided as testimony. LOL. Reading is fun da mental.
Hi, Deborah. You asked a great question above about the Law and Christians. Some people have taken Paul's statement that we're not under the Law but under grace to mean that we no longer have any limits from the Bible. However, Paul's original Greek words show that he was writing that we are no longer dominated by the Law (rules and regulations) of the Bible, but that grace guides believers.
The last parts of Paul's letters and Jesus' teachings (for example, Matthew 5--7) show that the principles of the whole Bible still apply to Christians' lives but as guidelines of gratitude. God transforms our lives to want to love God as our adopted Father and to follow his biblical principles like loving God above all and our neighbor as ourselves, loving our enemies, and seeking perfection like God's--all through Jesus by the Holy Spirit's power, not in our own strength, also an experience unique the Christian faith.But Paul didn't teach what Yahshua taught.
So for me Paul isn't proofThat was a question I put to 21.
One I already know the answer to which does not include PaulDeborah, why do you reject Paul? The Book of Acts shows clearly that he was Jesus' apostle and prophet after his conversion. His teachings are not in conflict with Jesus' teachings or with Peter's, James', or John's when their rightly understood in context. What specific teachings of Paul conflict with the rest of the New Testament, in your view?
Hi, Deborah! God's grace causes the new birth, faith, and the struggle against our inborn imperfections, and the resulting life of thankfulness in believers' lives to follow all of God's commands in the Bible. Note my other responses above. Thanks for your responses.
Twenty One, thanks for responding. According to Romans 6-8 and other passages, God gives peace between him and believers, who change from enemies to his friends, but in this life we always have an old, sinful nature and God's gift of a new nature in conflict (notice Paul's description in Romans 7) with each other. Some day that conflict will end in final perfection.
The state of peace within, a radiant stillness that permeates in ones countenance, and precedes one in their actions.
Grace is UNMERITED favor by the Lord because we who believe are IN the Lord. It is because of His righteousness and His amazing grace we are saved because of faith in Him, not of ourselves (not of anything we have done or will do). Eph 2:8-9; Rom 11:6.
Grace is a state you choose to believe in. It doesn't exist out of your mind.
first part correct. second part not.
you choose to live in it -then supersede the need to choose and actually live in it. It most certainly lives outside the mind, in body & spirit, as well as in it.grace is a subjective experience of a universal phenomenon. it is a gathering of energy.
tsk, tsk. It is a cubic experience -project, absorb, reflect on all the mediums each. 3(3³) expressive less necessity -depending on the dominant, equal or submissive property
(too efin early for that).yes it is James. but darn right. vav is the six dimensions.
I believe, cecilianbeltran, that grace is objective and subjective. It's objective as a perfect quality and power of the separate, all-powerful Creator-God that he uses to bless his creation and all creatures. He is the God that the Bible distinguishes from his creation rather than being identified with that universe.
Grace is subjective in that the 3-in-1 God sends it as his special quality into believers' experience through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection to make them his new creation (2 Corinthians 5:15-17a) as follows: "And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ."
However, all believers still have the old, selfish nature still in them, but God's grace gives us progress in replacing the old with the new. Some day when Jesus returns, he will give us final perfection by his grace (free, undeserved, unconditional acceptance) in a new universe. So don't ever expect Christians to be perfect or even close to perfect in this life. However, true Christians are struggling against imperfection by God's grace through Jesus by the Spirit's power; hypocrites are not.
It's a state of your mind. You can live in it because you believe in it. That doesn't mean it exists in reality.
You wake up every morning and are able to take care of yourself? I call that Grace.
but it does...you just can't see it as grace because grace is an experience of a phenomenon that exists outside of human experience.
you said it. Out of human experience.
It doesn't exist !!
So anything outside the human doesn't exist.
How do you know anything exists then, since only the individual knows their mind. You could be a figment of your own image/imagination.Any experience like Grace is a figment of your imagination. Can you grasp Grace ? What colour is it? What is its smell ?
grasp, taste, smell? why is the bootstrap program needed? focus.
those are elements of necessity; consciousness.
Everything is tangible. Grace is not a figment of human image of the universe; it is the universes image of the human.
And even quantum 101 can agree.
Have a nice reboot!
Yeah Sure ! Mr. Intelectual !
Reboot Your SelfIntellect?
A bunch of words put together in sentences with no real meaning and no proof.'
I call it B.S.This is so funny! This is why I come here. comments like this make my day.
why, why, why do we bother? as in you can't even explain it any real way. why? why do we do it james? its the contrast we're addicted to. It's like we secretly want them to not get it!
well, duh!
Ah, i miss the days of HubPages Jihad.
i'm hungry, watch ya think, should i make a ton of sexy, susie-Q quiches? who knows, i might be able to sell them.Speaking of which. I will (finally) be making a new food hub for the competition. Spicy shrimp linguine.
Look forward to jousting with you.Don't suggest things I can't eat in my neighborhood! Now I'm hungry.
Hubpages Jihad! that was fun!
LOL More like there is nothing to get and it makes you feel better to persuade them you got it when they don't.
And - yes, I do know why you are wired that way, but you wouldn't understand.
whatever cooks your noodle right, Mark
you are a bread winner, mark. so in behalf of those who do not thank you, thank you.
noodles! OMG, St Marks Place! basement noodle place -da bomb!
the signs ARE everywherereally? where is it? (shucks my nanny just came in. now I can't laugh at the computer or she'll think I'm not working.) St. Mark's? Is it in the Island?
St Marks Place (the street)
I used to work about a block from that dive bar where $10 for $10 shots or something. The noodle place was half a block down passed the tattoo joint. There is also a place in Alphabet City, Avenue B.will be writing it down.
what do you think of Momofoku, love the vegetarian noodles there and the egg soy sauce (i think its called)james its time to go...i sense Hubpages jihad is happening again.
funtimes!
Yes why do you?
I will never go back to those beliefs and I am not interested.
Funny though a few months ago you were preaching a different sermon with different beliefs.I still have the same beliefs Deborah. They have not changed. I will not however speak of Keter and Hashem like they are items in the shopping cart.
especially in a place that makes it open to sow discord. some things are still sacred.Good. However before you start implying stuff about me again..better think twice and don't.
what did I imply. I thought your opinion on Paul is funny. it's just funny. because its funny. i do not explain funny because it stops being funny. don't threaten people again deborah. its not cool.
this is nicely put though, but sadly it is only understandable from a vantage point. and it is almost pointless to say it.
And what that vantage point might Be
The peak of Grace ?
Take care with the Fall ! see, the thing is, this is not about that at all. we all have different vantage points and they are all valid from our perspective. so no intent to present myself as in a higher vantage point. just different.
Anyway, you're falling.
Falling from grace
HP's grace. You're not deceiving anyone. You know nothing. Only a way with wordsyes I do know nothing.
but not in the way I think I do. don't mind us. we've been fidgeting with the forbidden tree for quite some time now. Just call us crazy and you'll be better off for it.
No superiority posturing intended. pardon me.Just curious is that really your body? wow, nice! you make me want to stop sitting around in front of the computer.
what is the color of the electricity running your hairdryer?
what do you think is generating your thoughts my dear?
yes electrochemicals...they exist outside human experience too.
I disagree, watchya, but that's OK. I refer you to my other responses. Thanks for replying.
I'll give you another example of God's grace from my experience. For 43 years of my life I was an angry, bitter person, didn't know it, and covered it up with a smile. What was I angry about? I was bitter about the deaths of two brothers and our 4 1/2 year old son. I also grew up in a dysfunctional family. I buried all of that angry grief in my subconscious and let it out only at other drivers.
Towards the end of 7 years of depression, God, who was also the object of my anger, provided a therapy group that did psychodrama, among other activities, to help people get in touch with their bottled-up anger, which is 80% of depression. I reluctantly volunteered to act out a few situations in which I had to confront people who had wronged me.
After awhile, the instructor said, "You're getting too cerebral, Bruce. Clear the stage and just stand there....Your mad at God, aren't you?" i immediately replied with tears gathering on my cheeks, "Yeah, I'm mad at God!!" He responded, "Where is God right now for you, Bruce?" I knew immediately and exclaimed, "He's right next to me!!" Obviously surprised, the instructor asked, "What is God doing?!" My immediate answer was what I felt instinctively, "He's hugging me!!" The instructor asked for other patients to represent God to me, and three other members of the group hugged me, saying, "I love you,...I love you,....I love you,...Bruce!!" The instructor said afterwards that he had never experienced that kind of psychodrama in all of his years of leading therapy groups.
With that amazing experience, I sensed the 3-in-1 God's grace in loving me through those three people even though I was angry at him. That's an example of his grace, which took away my anger and depression and gave me permanent peace 8 1/2 months later so that I'm no longer angry at others and him for the suffering that he allowed in my life.
As a result, you might try to convince me that grace is only subjective, but you have to point out much more powerful considerations than the experiences and teachings that I believe God has given me based on his Word, the Bible.
Interesting responses, everyone! According to the Bible, grace is a quality of the God of the Bible, not of any other God concocted by humans. Where else do you find free acceptance apart from any of your imperfect qualities or actions? Humans' performance-orientation prevents such an idea. All other spiritual sets of beliefs require some kinds of actions to please the spiritual leaders and/or their Gods.
Only the Bible says that God the Father through Jesus by the Spirit's power gives believers grace to be able to believe and follow the Bible's teachings. The Father accepts us freely because of Jesus' actions. Those were outside of us, not just in our imaginations.
Watchya, you have a right to your opinion. You might read the New Testament all the way through to see the way of grace in Jesus. Then, come back for more discussion.i sincerely want to know, Bruce, about the confident -and continued use of the Bible, the bible, the bible?
Tell me truth! Not a man's truth, but THE truth -
what bible did adam, abram, enoch, moses, dina, judah, jeremiah, esekiel, daniel, ruth, samuel, shadreck, solomon, david, joseph, thomas, mary, even cornelius and many more have? none.
The bible is nothing more than a reference to those who desire INSPIRATION.Thanks, Twenty One Days, for you involvement. I believe that God reveals himself in his creation, but our "contact lens" for interpreting God in his universe is the Bible (check out Psalm 19), the writers of which God guided with their individual abilities and styles to faithfully reveal God's history with the human race leading up to, describing, and explaining the God-man's rescue mission to join and restore the human race, at least all who believe in and follow him.
I believe what the Bible itself claims (2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:16-21) that God guided the writing of all 66 books to reveal himself as the personal God who created us, allowed us to fall into our rebellious imperfection, restored believers through Jesus, and gave us tangible hope for our future, final perfection.
These are just some of the reasons that I believe the Bible to be God's truth, not human truth. It presents a God who could not have been produced by human thought; therefore, he must have revealed himself there. That book is the basis for Christians' beliefs.
I am not sure if anyone has put this one down yet, but I like the Websters definition.' Undeserved favor"
mercy (grace) is favor based on need of saving.
free will (grace) is living truth by action of unlimited faith.
note the TWO definitions.What do you mean, Deborah, by "not immunity"? I believe that God's grace is shown in his verdict of "not guilty" and removal of the death penalty for Christian believers, not because of their actions, but solely because of Jesus Christ, according to the Bible. I'm interested in your explanation.
- zampanoposted 14 years ago0
grace can be amazing, like in Amazing Grace.
grace can have a wild connotation like in Wild Child, full of grace, saviour of the human race.
And with coolness too :
Your cool face.
So, grace is an amazing wild coolness.Zampano, I would agree if you define wildness within the limits of the Bible, because I believe that those are God''s limits for believers' transformed lives of love for God and others. God's grace is certainly cool!
You mean that God would allow you to violate his laws and commands (for example, commit adultery, murder, steal, lie, or curse his name) and just wink at those imperfections like a Sky-Santa? I believe that his grace and love enable believers to follow his moral standards more and more in our emotions, will, actions, and thinking. Jesus came to fulfill the moral laws and commands in believers' place and to die on the cross so that the Father accepts us (grace), even though we are far from perfect.
For example, God gave me a call to be a Christian pastor before I went to college, but I left that call to become a teacher, rebelling against him, even though I was a believer (read the Book of Jonah). In my last year of teaching, our second boy, Keith, died from leukemia, our family's very traumatic experience.
However, God changed my will by his grace through that trauma, which he allowed but didn't cause, to again return to school to become a pastor with a wife, three children, and no job. He provided for us again by his grace, even enabling us to come out of that experience with no debts and a nest egg from our house that almost doubled in value during those four years.
As I said in my other responses, God gave me his grace to accept his plan for my life by healing me from 7 years of depression and giving me submission to his will with his peace that does not depend on circumstances.
Yet, it is my experience that God's grace is still working with me to mold me more and more to his will described in the Bible, his Word. It doesn't make sense to me that God would give us his grace to violate his own moral standards. Perish the thought!! That's my and the Bible's take on grace.
I know right? I couldn't believe the stuff they could do that with noodles. But apparently there's another place where they do better noodles on the lower side.
Ok I lived in Thailand for three years, but new york Noodles rock!
Thanks for coming! Don't go too far off :-)!
unfortunately, Bruce, several neo-narcissistic people -not even valuable authors- have deemed her invaluable and are afraid of her opines, as they are mine. Thus she is temporally 'banished' from Hub Forum. Oddly, some of the sliest foxes in here exceed the rules and are justified by zero reprimand. Believe me though, she is pleasant about it, even giddy.
That's too bad, 21 Days. I value everyone's input as long as they don't sling their anger at others. I'm certainly not afraid of either of you with your comments. We may not agree on God and the Bible, but we can respect each other. I find various opinions stimulating, not threatening.
Thanks as always.
Blanket statement....- grace is a myth purported by religion's mystical faith based god concept. Nothing more.
***anyone deciding to refute my post or reply to my post, save your action...*** But, do enjoy your day. I certainly will, Cagsil, by God's grace :-). You might check out my most recest responses after I returned to the Web for examples of my experience of God's grace through Jesus. I invite your responses to my examples. Thanks for your input.
One thing that I know about grace is that if one argues every issue with everyone... that person doesn't have it.
And if ya don't have it you do not know what it is.
And if ya don't know what it is you will not recognize it when it bites ya on the bu t.
And when it bites ya on the bu t it makes ya angry
And when you are angry ya want to argue every issue with everyone.
And that proves that ta don't have it and, and, and around we go.
Kinda like peace of mind.I agree, Jerami. I believe in sharing my ideas and experiences but not arguing with others. Life's too short to argue. But I do like to know why people believe as they do. Yes, God's grace gives me peace of mind about the past and present. Good point!
In addition, you will find examples of what you are describing, Jerami, in my most recent responses.
My personal view of Grace is too live righteously whilst suffering adversity but also setting an example for others at the same time.
Grace –noun
1.
elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action.
2.
a pleasing or attractive quality or endowment.
3.favor or good will.Thanks, Richieb799, for you response. I prefer to define biblical words the way the Bible defines them according to their uses and contexts. Why? I believe that God led the writers of the Bible to write about him and his qualities as he related to people in history. As I study the Bible, your definition number 3 fits most of the uses and contexts of that word there. God is the only God of any spiritual group to have and show pure grace by loving us as his creatures by taking care of our needs and loving believers by rescuing them through Jesus by the Spirit apart from anything we can do. He gives believers the new birth (John 3) and faith (Ephesians 2:1-10) and the abilities to follow Jesus' ways (see Ephesians 2:10).
That powerful quality is one that no other human belief can conceive of because of the human need to contribute to our condition. Therefore, God definitely revealed that quality of his to the Bible's writers and inspired its writing. That's the way I see it by his grace.
- brotheryochananposted 14 years ago0
Remember the OT, the one that God, yahweh ruled supreme in. Punishment for sin was pretty much immediate. God was still reading hearts and trying to get people to understand that their natural inclination was toward sin and that sin would destroy everything that God wanted to do for them. He put them in a beautiful garden and they blew it. Eve was seduced by the tree, she saw that it was good for food and pleasant to the eyes (hehe eyedollatree) and upon further contemplation she realized the tree was desirable to make one wise, and she ate,
( James 1:14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed".
James 1:15 "Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death". )
the yetzer hara got the better of her and God showed up soon after to put them out.
This is the way the Old covenant worked. eye for eye, etc. When David numbered israel, God was quick to act. When and when and this and that. There are so many examples of God being quick to act.
Now we have the NT. and nobody is getting quickly killed. God has put off with the killing and the OT is ended. The OT failed in that the heart of man was evil continually. So God decided its time for plan B. I can hear him say "I have worked with these people long enough, its time for something else". God dispensed a New Covenant that said "he shall pour out his spirit on all flesh" and "that He is the author and finisher of our faith". God has allowed us time to work out our sinful yetzer hara nature and overcome it with the word of god and the blood of the lamb and the infilling of the holy spirit. In todays world nobody dies at the hand of god from a sentence of death due to transgression. We live to try again and again and again, wherein otherwise we would be dead long ago.
This is the Grace of God. He will judge all in his good time and we will live our lives until He is done with us, then the judgment.Sorry, This give a wrong picture of what i want to say. As we look around the world and see the natural disasters i cannot rule out that perhaps this is Gods work. In these natural disasters, people die. I am reminded of this:
Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luke 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luke 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luke 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
What is the meaning of grace?
Grace is that what the Creator-God Allah YHWH has bestowed to a man for which that person has done nothing that he should be bestowed to him. Like one has been given parents who look after his needs and care about him when one is an infant while one has done nothing in exchange.
One could contrast it with the remuneration one is paid for the services or labour one renders.Paarsurrey, in the Bible, with which you more than likely disagree, grace is a free gift, God's acceptance of believers in him through Jesus' perfect life that we could never live and his perfect death as our substitute, taking our death penalty (Genesis 3). God's general grace comes to all humans in his provision for their lives, but his special grace comes to believers in Jesus Christ as the way to the first Person of God's free acceptance (grace). Grace is unearned and undeserved, because we're all imperfect, and it takes perfection to enter heaven. Jesus paved the way to heaven with his perfection. All we have to do is believe or trust in Jesus, and he transforms us to want to love and serve him by his grace (check out Ephesians 2:1-10).
Grace is the perpetual state in which I live, extended to me as a gift from God. I did and do nothing to earn it. Mercy acknowledges the offense and excuses it. Grace does not acknowledge the offense. The distinction is monumental. Its comprehension is life changing and it brings liberty indefinable and immeasureable. To choose correctly in the light of such liberty, is a response born no longer from the fear of penalty, but, from a love moved to reciprocate.
grace is when we are unworthy but God really does not look at it and still bless us, it like jesus for us and now on the right hand of God. grace is a supernatural gift from God which enables us to receive his blessings even when we think we do not merrit it.............. love you
GRACE - God's Riches at Christ's Expense
We have to find the definition of grace as God himself defines it - in his Word, not grace as we understand it.
For years, I struggled with what it really was, and now that I kind of get it, I find that it is so wholly out of this world, that until I see God, I will never really get all that it means.
Every time I read something from the Bible, or someone's explanation of grace, I learn something new!
It's so amazing!
And thanks, John Newton, for being used of God to write that wonderful hymn, Amazing Grace.
And thank you, God, for saving Newton in such a way that he was able to see your grace at work in his life, and share it with us so many years later!Grace is an unearned pardon a gift that is not deserved as
it states in the Bible while we were yet sinners Christ died
for our sins. Salvation cannot be earned so some have wrongly
concludes that there are no works involved or required of a
Christian, this notion is false. Faith without works is dead
and a dead faith will not save one soul.Plus some have wrongly
taught that grace means one can do as one wishes without
consequence the old once saved always saved dead doctrine.
The Bible says,should we continue in sin that grace may abound,
God Forbid. The wages of sin, breaking God's law is eternal
death in the lake of fire so grace is undeserved mercy to pardon
us from our sins that is the death penalty after this we are
to live by faith, that is believing and obey God and this produces
works or good deeds which are and expression of the fruits of
God's spirit like kindness,patience,love forgiveness etc etc etc
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