is religion arrogant?

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pisean282311posted 14 years ago
if we look globally there are so many different religion and barring few , almost all claim that their way and their version is only way , rest are either false way or half baked ways..if one does not follow their prescribed way , he/she is heading for trouble..now you may be good person ..doing great things for yourself and society in general but u wont go to heaven if you dont believe in their prescribed way..is religion arrogant or lacks self belief needing reassurance ?...
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes religion is arrogent.
  Mat 7:15-20
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No religion isn't arrogant, some of the people that practice religion are arrogant. Religion is just a thing so it can't be arrogant. It's a set of beliefs and moral codes of conduct none of which tells believers to be arrogant. What is arrogant is people that attack, ridicule, and criticise others for what they believe, as if they are somehow more knowledgeable or informed on matters beyond the comprehension of the rest of the mere mortals they are forced to share the globe with.
  
  Beliefs are a personal thing, when one attacks someones' beliefs, they are attacking that person, and further they are trying to force their own beliefs upon the other, implying a superiority over those that don't and won't agree. That is arrogance, not religion.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you remonstrate with nonbelievers for what believers do. I don't shove my beliefs down peoples' throats, I don't attempt to regulate others' morality based on my own, I don't constantly threaten and terrorize others with arrogant threats of a hell.
  
  You want to pretend that being a christian (in the only way it's ever really meant) doesn't actively involve believing that you are A) better than others for being what you think is wise enough to 'choose to believe', or B) luckier than others in being chosen by god and turned to him through no merit of your own.
  
  If A) (freewillers) then I am an automatic rejector of goodness and hater of peace and righteousness. That is what a believer (by free will) must inherently think of nonchristians. That just as the christian thinks he/she has chosen the good path, the christian must believe nonchristians have willfully rejected goodness, that we are 'lovers of darkness'. This belief is necessary to maintain their delusion. This twisted but requisite viewpoint of freewilling christians towards nonchristians MUST LEAD TO ARROGANCE.
  
  If B) (calvinists) then I am an automatic rejectee of goodness, hated by the claimed source of goodness, and incapable of any good or righteousness. Nonchristians are nothing more than examples in contrast to calvinist christians of their god's great favor and gloriousness in choosing those whom he/she/it did choose. People being people, and the regenerative powers of the christian god being as ineffective as we have constantly seen them to be, do ya really think believing you are chosen by a god doesn't lead to some level of arrogance?
  
  Is religion itself arrogant, well, perhaps that wouldn't be the best way to put it. Yet for those who believe in (most of) these religions, the big 3 and just about everything in between to be sure, those who take on these 'one true god' beliefs, the religion itself, the world view they are adopting, comes inherently with arrogance built in.
  
  Arrogance. I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. I warned them, but they would not believe, so now they have to pay the price. Screw them. I got mine covered.
  
  There is also -as the OP suggested- a hint of insecurity, though that may be putting it mildly. This no doubt dates back to the beginnings, to the struggles for control from which these religions were born. Not one of them were ever secure enough in their own beliefs -or humble enough in their 'regenerations'- to allow others the right to their own beliefs and opinions. The threat of hell was generally immediate, and still is in some places. Each of the Big 3 formed their religion by threat and by promise, a carrot to lure you in, or a stick to slay you should you decline.
  
  Why? Think about it.
  
  Arrogant, and yet also insecure.
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I accuse YOU of any such behaviour? I said "some people", so if the shoe fits...
  
  I just don't understand why you became so defensive.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Defensive? I'm just trying to explain. Sorry you seem to have totally missed the point.
  
  The topic being is religion arrogant, by which I think the OP meant something like was it created in arrogance and does it foster arrogance, and that's where my head is. I don't know what you're talking about, but if that's all you got from my post then you probably shouldn't have wasted your time reading it.
  
  I tend to speak in a very straight-forward manner. People often mistake my tone of voice.
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  Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Leebrata u made a rational point. Arrogance is human nature. We often let our ideologies belief systems bring out the arrogance in us.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  leebertteaposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  
  "No religion isn't arrogant, some of the people that practice religion are arrogant. Religion is just a thing so it can't be arrogant. It's a set of beliefs and moral codes of conduct none of which tells believers to be arrogant."
  
  Terminal unrepentant casual bearing of false witness noted. The "go forth and make disciples of all nations" is nothing but arrogance. Its showing abject contempt for your involuntary audience and their culture.
  
  Those 'moral codes of conduct' have generated much genocide over the course of two millennia.
  
  "What is arrogant is people that attack, ridicule, and criticise others for what they believe, as if they are somehow more knowledgeable or informed on matters beyond the comprehension of the rest of the mere mortals they are forced to share the globe with."
  
  Once again such is very Christian an in line with the 'directed mission.'
  
  "Beliefs are a personal thing, when one attacks someones' beliefs, they are attacking that person, and further they are trying to force their own beliefs upon the other, implying a superiority over those that don't and won't agree. That is arrogance, not religion."
  
  Christianity once again via said directive. Oopsies.
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  Navyman05posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree with leeberttea religion is not arrogant, because people are arrogant. Religion was brought up by people and every person is flawed. The higher power that being a god or some other being made us to be flawed. He/she wanted to have our own since of thought and make our own choices wither it be right or wrong. The bible is supposed to be gods word but the bible was created by man. Man printed and binded the good book together. So the human race created what they believed was the words of god into a book called the bible. Like I said humans were meant to be flawed so how are we supposed to know that thous are really the words of god. This is my thought I think that all religions is the right religion. There is no right or wrong when it comes to religion because humans created religion.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The "go forth and make disciples of all nations" is nothing but arrogance. Its showing abject contempt for your involuntary audience and their culture.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  no, but some of the members of some religions act like their religion gives them membership in an exclusive club and they act all 'neener-neener' with "non-believers". then again, there are some non-believers who act super arrogant, especially in these forums. sometimes it sickens me to read the way they treat religious people.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion is a joke. It is the people who practice it that are arrogant. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You was looking in the mirror when you said that I suspect.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting you say that Jerami. And, for your information, no I was not.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was feeling in a Mood ! I'm bad! But no kidding, everybody needs to take a good hard look at ourselves once in a while.
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  anything is anything you want it to be. Arrogant? if I want it to be, not if I don't.
  
  Is arrogance practicing religion?
  
  Sorry not feeling ya on this one!
  
  out
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yet one may be the leg, another the foot, and yet another the arm.
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  britneydavidsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No - Religion is not arrogant. But we poeple made it. There is only one religion but we people made it different different religion.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and what is that one religion?..does it exist right now?..
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hers of course!
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, Did you know K.D. Lang is spiritual? All kinds of people are
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWb … embedded#!
  
  A very joyful and pleasant video
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PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years ago
What religion are you talking about? Christianity, music, The Jersey Shore? Which religion?
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Joking of course fyi
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Every religion claiming exclusivity is arrogant by definition.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  American Idol is pretty arrogant.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think this applies to any belief or concept that begs exclusivity.
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  habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, Bekah!
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Won't argue with that either.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, but arrogant doesn't mean wrong. (It also doesn't mean right.) I find some of my best friends to be highly arrogant. Arrogant is just one person's way of saying "Your confidence make me feel uncomfortable." to another person. I've seen the same arrogance in non-religion.
  
  The very act of asking the question can be seen as arrogant by some. (How dare you claim to be greater than god/God/goddess/flying spaghetti monster by questioning if their followers are arrogant!?!)
  
  Of course it's going to be seen as arrogant by anybody who isn't comfortable with it.
  
  Now, the real question is, who sees "arrogance" as a "bad thing", and why?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  David, I won't go into theological arguments with you, but since you asked - to the best of my knowledge your own holy book calls arrogance a sin. I'll leave it at that.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not exactly, but I do concede that the line between confidence and arrogant pride is difficult to see even among the theologically trained , but that was my point, in order to call arrogance "bad" you had to turn to religion. Which puts us in a bit of a paradox. Which does not make it true or untrue, only amusing.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would appreciate you showing me the exact place where I called it bad
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The exact word was "sin" ... which most people understand to be "bad".
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's not my word, that's your book word. Of course I could use something like "what your book considers as incompatible with proper following of its instructions", but that would certainly complicate the understanding of what I meant, so I decided to go with your book language, may be it was a mistake.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, if you don't believe in the book, it's not bad. And so why ask the question? If a belief system (religious or not) appears to be internally inconsistent, that's different that arrogance.
  
  Besides, I'm right, so it's OK for me to be arrogant ...
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  False logic
  
  I didn't ask a question, I tried to answr it
  
  Hard to argue with that one
  
  Absolutely, I never said it is not OK - it was your book that did it
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, just so we're clear.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Personally I think "hubristic" is a better description in any case. I am an arrogant so and so myself - but I have good reason.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'd buy that.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what's your reason?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it is people who claim this. there is also a version of this in politics, martial arts, this and that....all people
  
  religion is a neutral that we project our leanings to.
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PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years ago
Truth is (being serious now), if a religion is arrogant, then it defeats the purpose of religion which, I believe, is to bring love into the world.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  PeppermintPaddyposted 5 days ago
  
  Truth is (being serious now), if a religion is arrogant, then it defeats the purpose of religion which, I believe, is to bring love into the world."
  
  Then religion is a terminal failure as current events and the Christian historical track record demonstrate-unless the love is that of destruction.
  
  There have been religions which 'brought love into the world.' These passive religions were all destroyed by others, including Christianity.
  
  Bringing 'love into the world' doesn't require a religion.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity is all about love, that's what Jesus did with his apostles and is the first commandment. Unfortunately, the bible is split into two books...old testament and the new testament (the old testament being before Jesus). While Jesus preached about love, there are stories in the old testament which are a direct contradiction to his teachings and many Christians take these to heart, misinterpret them, or are just plain hypocrites who believe biblical rules apply to everyone else and not them. The ultimate lesson (in both) about love is lost in the shuffle. However, it's the most important lesson.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  err...the old testament is a foundation of the new testament.
  I think the bible is highly misunderstood even by those who read them day and night. There's more in there than the english versions.
  
  there is a lot of literature explaining these things...but who wants to make time right (other than me)?
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or it wouldn't be the first commandment. Murdering and acquiring land ruthlessly are a direct contradiction to Jesus' teachings. People are not suppose to kill other people to convert them, but many did anyway. Like I said, the main lesson got lost in the shuffle. All in all, I believe religion is more about the spirit, anyway, then about religious institutions. We're suppose to be developing ourselves as human beings, rather than just following rules but that's just my opinion.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  PeppermintPaddy posted 2 days ago in reply to this
  
  Or it wouldn't be the first commandment. Murdering and acquiring land ruthlessly are a direct contradiction to Jesus' teachings. People are not suppose to kill other people to convert them, but many did anyway.
  
  Matthew 10 (King James Version)
  
  34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
  
  35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
  
  36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
  
  37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
  
  Jeremiah 48 (King James Version)
  10Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.
  
  Lunacy above and in the gibbering insanity of Revelations where Jesus years to slip his chains and slaughter more than 3/ths the worlds population.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well you may be right but what you call misinterpretation has had deep impact in history from crusaders to witch hunting to Galileo...use of violence and hatred is part of human history and religion has been used for that...
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Misinterpretation or plain ignoring the rules but using religion as an excuse to achieve ones own personal, sadistic agenda. Sinful, ruthless human beings.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sinful, ruthless God.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Though true, Stoney, we don't need religion to love. However, it's a method to possibly guide a person there.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Coulda fooled me from the animosity created by religion. Guess it is prolly best to ignore actual facts and events and still think it is about love. Wonder why that is? Nothing loving in judging other people and listing things god sez you cannot do. The sort of love in the bible is the painful "it's for your own good" sort of love that is not really love.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, human beings have existed and will exist until the end of time. Human beings are often sinful, selfish, ruthless, flawed human beings who no one or nothing can help, let alone religion.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm...not sure about end of time ...yes time might end with human species since time is human species creation...but not sure humans would exist till end of universe...we may try to by adopting , evolving and forming new ways..but we dont know and can't be sure about it...what say?
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  pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Time is endless because it’s round. No beginning, no ending. Don’t take a very smart soul to realize that.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which is why pizza is the 'holy round meal.'
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even if they use it to their advantage. Say, priests, or ministers, or rabbis, or other religious leaders with the characteristics above (no offense to any religion).
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Garbage. Human beings have been around a few thousand years on a planet that is millions of years old, and will almost certainly wipe themselves out before time ends.
  
  Unless you are saying time is merely a perception held by humans and does not exist outside of us. Either way - LOL - Funny.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Figure of speech.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think we humans will survive though. Even if our beautiful earth is being destroyed.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  interesting thought..can you elaborate on this..
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only if we change our value system or get off the planet.
  
  Shame is - we have more than enough resources to manage - we just prefer to allow a small elite to take the lion's share and have not been able to create a value system that prevents that yet. That is what we need to do.
  
  Part of the problem is religion - at least that is one of the tools used to keep the majority in line. The religionists do not understand this though - and argue that the opposite is true. They all go on about the "good old days" and forget the atrocities that were being perpetrated then.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ah mark, we agree, at least on a few things. Oh, lordy, dont have a heart attack.
  Religion is a tool, used by some, to keep some at a comfortable distance on that leash.
  Of course they would deny it.
  Reverse physcology
  Same principle with voting, but hey, who would admit that either?
  Yes, we have enough resources to manage, but unless we start managing those resources, we will end up on fema trains.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They aren't 'atrocities' unless such is being personally applied to them.
  
  Christian atrocities inceasingly continue now.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a very negative view you have of humans. I think humans are compassionate and altruistic in nature, always willing to work together and share, but have been mislead by the bad ideologies created from ignorance.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All are mere actors in a pointless play hitting their marks and spouting their lines as scripted eons ago when 'God,' full of too much Odin's Ale and pickled eggs, farted the universe into being.
  
  There are ramifications and repercussions to things and your God bears responsibility.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hebrews 12:7-9 (Amplified Bible)
  
  You must submit to and endure [correction] for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not [thus] train and correct and discipline?
  
  Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God's children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].
  
  Moreover, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we yielded [to them] and respected [them for training us]. Shall we not much more cheerfully submit to the Father of spirits and so [truly] live?
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Shall we not much more cheerfully submit to the Father of spirits and so [truly] live?...interesting question...but we can see our earthly father and mother..we can see them , talk to them and understand their concerns..while what you say is based not of any tangible thing but faith..now since you are christian , you quote from bible..if you would have been muslim , you would have quoted from quran and if hindu you would have used veda or gita...isn't it?
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The bible was edited and continues to be edited. Emperor Constantine was the first editor of the bible.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or maybe it was an apostasy. That's what a Muslim told me Mohammed did to the Koran (to make it paltable to the masses).
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ridiculous nonsense . Sorry - you have no authority to tell me to submit. Your invisible Super Daddy does not exist. - And no - I like having my hair cut. I am exempt from your correction. I know where the bible came from and it ain't the instructions from god. So - now that we understand that and reject it - I choose to live within strict moral codes because I want to instead of becoz u sed god sed (and none of u can agree wot god sed - see religious wars) - that makes me a far superior person than you. I actually have morals and ethics, unlike yourself who is comfortable bearing false witness against me - against your rules. See - if you actually followed the rules - I might have some respect for you. But - as you do not - I laugh in your face.
  
  You have no authority. None.
  
  I am alive - truly alive as you will never be.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the rant Mark, I guess Gods word hit a nerve.
  
  Still not in the mood to be goaded.
  
  Hasta la vista!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me - what a dishonest cop out.
  
  You do not speak for a god. You speak for you. But - yes I really do not like liars. If you want to call bearing false witness "gods word" that is your business. Sorry - that is just my moral and ethical codes - you wouldn't understand. Each to his own. Yours is fine with bearing false witness I see.
  
  That is the difference between us. You do not have a moral code you can follow. Sad really.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, that's Christian brand morality!
  Amorality is morality in their book.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian idiocy like Aqua's is legion. They quote verses and lack the two required functioning neurons to realize those don't apply to those outside the superstition.
  
  They might as well quote lines from a Looney Tunes cartoon.
  
  Then these a-holes would gaze blankly if verses from a 'holy tome' they lack belief in were quoted at them!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What's seen from Christians, with few exceptions, is hatred and animosity. So much that such hatred and animosity is termed; "Christian Love[tm]."
  
  Y'all don't curb your mad dogs.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian Love[tm] is hatred. That's seen on a daily basis.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  PP wrote:
  "Christianity is all about love, that's what Jesus did with his apostles and is the first commandment."
  
  No. Christianity is all about enslavement, ignorance, bigotry, and selfishness. I'll grant you Christianity loves all that stuff, and more.
  
  Where's the 'love' and 'acceptance' of those without said superstition, or those who escaped it?
  
  Where's the 'love' and 'acceptance' of those who are of a different superstition or sect?
  
  Where's the 'love' and 'acceptance' of homosexuals and the elevation of them from second class citizens?
  
  Where are the Christians who follow the Ten 'Suggestions?'
  
  The 'fruit of Christianity' is rotten as commonly demonstrated by Christians? Look at the Christians in these threads who joyously follow their 'father, Satan.'
  
  The lies and dishonesty are there's, not those who show them up as the poseurs they are.
  
  Almost forgot. Remember the laws of the OT remain in force as 'heaven and earth' have not passed away-although Xians are diligently working on the latter.
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
IMO Religion comes from pure arrogance, the arrogance that this clumsy hairless ape is somehow 'more than'. It is just the extension of the "I am so important it is not possible that I could just dissapear when I die" syndrome.

The idea that religion is about love is patently ridiculous as it is tat the base of war and hatred everywhere, when it is in charge of politics it tortures and inflicts pain on its populations.

Religion should be treated like the plague upon humanity that it is.

end of rant.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only plague on humanity is his inability to take responsibility for his own actions.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely, and religion takes away responsibility for our own actions and places it in the hands of an absent being.
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  Nick Bposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or the absent-minded
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and by extension it places power in the hands of the weak-minded.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What difference does that make to where the world finds itself now?
  I guess bashing some self confessed christian will right the wrongs we inflict on ourselves.
  Religion is an escape for both believers and none believers.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is the WHOLE difference - if ALL humankind was responsible for his own actions it would think differently and might get around to dealing with the real problems instead of submitting themselves to the will of a few crazed mouthpieces of an imaginary god.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The only religous problem we face is terroism and your blind if you think that is the worlds biggest problem.
  Perhaps a little culling of those who dont agree with you will fix the climate, overpopulation, starvation,unemployant, world debt and mans inability to care for one another.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No - the religious problem we face is 2000 years of slamming it to the masses that they have no control over their life and should give it up for a reward in the next one.
  
  Odd how that is what the banks and government Incs wanted us to think. Anyone would think religion was invented by the rich and powerful to keep the masses in line.
  
  Oh - wait - That is right - religion did indeed deal with starvation, unemployment mans inability to care for one another - it was just in an alternate universe.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice cop out Mark
  The religous dude made us do it!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. You deny the influence religion has on our society? The "dominion over everything" attitude so prevalent? The "god will provide" bullshite?
  
  2000 years of that drivel being force fed to the masses has definitely affected our society and "values" - the sooner we understand that "god will not provide" and accept responsibility for our actions - the better as far as I am concerned.
  
  So - make an argument if you think it has not had an effect - or - are you just another troll?
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I aint denying anything
  But i seriously believe we have far more problems in society than religion and i do think blaming religion for where we are at is going to fix anything.
  I believe its the weakminded way out of dealing with whats happening.
  
  And what the hell is a troll?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You did not understand what I said. It is the all pervasive "god will provide" nonsense that stems from 2000 years of religious teachings. This is BS - god will not provide - we need to accept responsibility and do that ourselves.
  
  I am not just blaming religion - I am suggesting a way out - and that way out needs to include getting rid of the nonsensical garbage being pushed by religion - still. We need to decide to breed less. We need to decide to be more careful with our resources - such as the Gulf.
  
  We need to do that. Us.
  
  But the system - Government/banks/religions/corporations (and they work together) - is far more interested in the status quo - because the individuals that runs these parasites want to keep their power. So - how do we get rid of the government/banks/religions/corporations?
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes i agree society is living like it has a get of jail free card and not realising this is it! Do something or join the dinosaurs!
  
  Status quo is greed with no thought of tomorrow.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you say that Religion has been trying to keep humanity in the dark ages??
  With your proposal
  The biggest bully will rule the world.
  The fastest Gunman will own the town.
  
  What you don't seem to understand is that we can not rely upon Mankind to create a perfect world.
  
  There will always be bullies that insist that they are right and iflict their beliefs upon others.
  
  No matter what You and I want to do ?? You and I can find an many EXCUSES that WE see as justification for our bad behavior.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, the biggest bully does rule the world. The fastest gunman does own the town. Unless you are living on a different planet than I am.
  
  So - what you are saying is - it is not worth trying to improve things.
  
  OK - You are probably right. Not worth getting rid of what is not working and trying something else.
  
  You know best Jerami. Lets keep the religion that is not doing anything at all, except suck everyone's attention away from the issue. Lets take left/right political sides while the Government Inc sucks us dry - not worth trying to improve it. Lets let BP poison the Gulf with almost no repercussions. Not worth trying to change things. OK.
  
  If we don't change something - and soon, we are going to destroy ourselves one way or another.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Its a shame man doesnt realise he is fulfilling prophesy
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - another religionist. Why didn't you say so? If it is prophecy - I may as well jump on the bandwagon, because I cannot stop it - right?
  
  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
  
  Here is how your ridiculous religion will destroy us:
  
  You have dominion over everything
  Go forth and multiply
  Prophesy - you will destroy everything
  
  Well done
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sad but true.
  
  This is because they do not recognize the truth of prophesy.
  
  There is a time and season for every purpose.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And this is why your religion is so destructive. You have given up trying to make the world a better place - it is prophesied *shrugs* - oh well, Jesus will save the chosen few. Disgusting, selfish belief system when you think about it really.
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  Nick Bposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, that's not quite the way I see that.
  
  I see it that one way or another, religionists will go out of their way to MAKE the prophesy happen.
  
  Look JC was supposed to turn up about ten years ago, but hasn't and there are other things that don't appear to be ringing true either, yet still religion keeps people believing, even though its evidence is growing ever weaker.
  
  People are becoming wise to the fact that the Church authorities have changed JC's birthday to December to 'hide' a pagan festival and screwed with the holy book to make it better for them, so why should we believe an institution arrogant enough to think they can get away with it?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually they did get away with this, and still do - so they are anything but arrogant in this particular regard.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fulfilling a prophesy is so much easier than trying to change it, isn't it, Jerami?
  
  One simply does nothing but to believe it and make it happen.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If prophesy says that an avalanche is going to come down the mountain and crush every house on the mountain side ?
  Lets say that I believe this prophesy and build my house someplace else; did my belief in the prophesy cause the avalanche ?? Is it my fault that people died?
  
  I gotta go be productive someplace else.
  By the way;…
  There is going to be an avalanche.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But - having the ability and wherewithal to stop the avalanche and then not doing so is the height of stupidity.
  
  Guess what?
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No i dont think we can stop it Mark
  
  Its sad that we go will down this road.
  
  1st Timothy 3:1 -17
  
  1 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
  
  This tends to describe mankind quit well unfortunately
  
  I agree with your feelings Mark dont get me wrong but i cant help but believe regardless of what the bible says, we missed the boat along while back.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - we did, when we fell under the thrall of religion, and this has described mankind ever since the first Prince walked the earth. It is not too late, and not long ago - I would have been burned at the stake for saying this.
  
  But - I see you have given up - so why are you even bothering to discuss it? Quite honestly - I find cowards such as yourself, who just say "ah - it is prophesied - nothing to do" rather shameful specimens of humanity.
  
  And you get it from your arrogant religion. Yes - you will destroy us all because your religion is far, far more important to you than making the world a better place.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I still dont think religion is to blame
  
  Things changed after ww1 or maybe it was when the first nuclear bomb was dropped and man realised it could all be over at anytime.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion isn't to blame for the condition of the world!
  I do believe the prophesy of scripture more that I do the rest of the bible.
  
  These prophesy was given so that when these things do happen; believers will know that their God has not forsaken them, but that his will is being fulfilled.
  
  In my mind; misrepresentating these prophesy is religions greatest sin.
  
  To say that we believe in Jesus Christ and then NOT believe his clearly spoken prophesy is a contradiction in ones self.
  
  A Man divided is a Man conquored.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I havent given up
  I recall you saying about mans boom and bust in another post and stating you hope you dont live to see it, well i feel the same way, but i doubt our kids and there kids will be so lucky.
  Religion isnt the blame, man is a greedy self destructive moron who thinks someday scientists will cure our ills. If only we could just slow down a bit and give them a chance to catch up but that seems to be a finacial cost noone wants to shoulder.
  I wonder if our kids will look back fondly on what we left them.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have given up. Blaming science now though? I like that?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I feel sad for our children. Unless scripture is correct.
  And they too have but a short time.
  
  I say this because we are leaving them with NOTHING to work with.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I dont blame science i blame man for relying on it to fix everything we stuff up.
  Man honestly thinks he can fix everything but we chop town forest quicker than we replace them, we will use all the oil on the planet before anyone make a serious attempt at an alternative(to much money still to be made).
  Everyone trust's what scientist's say aslong its not human induced global warming.
  The list is almost endless.
  
  Im curious Mark, how do you think things will change and what can be done to stop the biggest bully and fastest gun?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  "God will provide" is the reason we cut down all our forests. Dear me - you have to defend your ridiculous belief system at every turn don't you? LOL
  
  That would be the first step - lose the ridiculous notion that it is "prophesied" and there is nothing to be done about it. Then - change our value system - teach our children about ethics and how to develop them and a respect for our environment. We could do it in two generations. Break up the corporations and make them accountable for their actions. Get rid of Big Government parasites, get rid of religion and its parasites. Get rid of a debt based banking system and the artificial rationing of resources called money.
  
  Start again, basically. How does it make any sense that the CEO of BP makes several million dollars a year, and lives a life of luxury but we cannot find enough money to pay the people who educate our children?
  
  So - bloodless revolution anyone?
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure the problem doesn't stem from the fact that the Abrahamic god gave men dominion over the world and all things? Doesn't that give men 'carte blanche' to do as they please?
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your right CEO pays make no sense but man has always been a slave to money and no revolution will every change that.
  
  Maybe you should run for president, im sure you will get plenty of support.
  
  Your attitude towards religous people is scary.
  I wonder if hitler had those same thoughts.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why? - Hitler was a good Christian doing God's work. Surely you have read Mein Kampf?
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you liked hitler?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you understand better than you admitt.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can't pass this one up. God does provide. And I understand why you can't understand that Promise. You see, He makes that Promise to those that believe. Seek ye first the kingdom of Heaven and all other things will be provided....
  Yes, He also tells us that if we don't do OUR part, neither will He.
  Mark, you would be such a happier person if you would, from the heart, put God to the test. He invites all to do that.
  I agree with you, we do need to be much more responsible with our resources.
  This country spends countless dollars on free benefits. I can, in 5 seconds, name 10 people that are druggies getting gov assistance, then they sell those benefits for cash.
  There are MANY ways to prevent this. When you or I apply for a job (to feed our family) we are asked to undergo a drug test. Why can't the gov enforce that to the people receiving assistance? If their test results are positive, then, no assistance. But what about the kids, ok. if they are druggies, take the kids. Simple.
  Good breeds good, bad breeds bad.
  Gov---control, I agree.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't care to hear your judgmental opinion of drug users. I don't care that you would have them starve because you do not agree with what they do.
  
  I am very happy thanks. I do not really care to hear your judgment that I am not because I do not recognize your ridiculous god. In fact - you would be less the judgmental hypocrite that you are if you had read and understood your book. Too lazy huh? Oh well.
  
  Just those that believe huh? LOLOLOLOLOLOLO
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yep fraid so, this is not to say that God doesn't provide for all, he just provides better for those who do. Egypt.. when moses left was ruined. army gone, many possessions of value they just gave to israel, their gods were in shambles each one in turn being disproved and humiliated before the whole world.
  Jericho.. israel comes to possess the promised land and so they march around the city of jericho, 7 times and yell at it and the walls fall down.. jericho had some impressive walls... the people defeated but not so unmercilessly as if the babylonians or assyrians had have taken jericho but incidently, they couldn't take jericho. Only god got his people through those walls.
  since i've been saved my average weight now is 218lbs before i was saved my average weight was 170lbs. I constantly ran out of this and that but now my life is wonderful in every aspect. Even here in hubpages, i get a booster shot.. and tomorrow is church.. i love my church.. goodnight everyone.
  god bless
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, where do you hear me being judgmental? If you are referring to me suggesting that you try God. He does want us to test Him. But, that is in no way being judgmental.
  Government control, Mark, we are there now. That is not judgmental. It is a fact.
  Wasteful spending, in all departments, not just benefits, is breaking the bank.
  For those people that have jobs, to support their families, they have to undergo testing, and pass it, else wise, no job. Ok, benefits are intended to help support families, and by the way paid for by who, yeah, the people who can pass the test, that Mark is fact, not judgment.
  Hypocrite? Now that Mark, is judgmental. And falsely so.
  I do not call you names because of your unbelief.
  You know, I think it is fair to say, that others have presented His truth to you. Excuse me for repeating. Scripture does tell us not to cast our pearls before the, whats the word ????????
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - I understand that you think you have pearls and your pearls of wisdom are wasted on swine such as myself.
  
  I get it. Yes. Not confused as to your opinion of me.
  
  I also understand that you cannot see that what you just said is both judgmental and hypocritical.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, is someone angry over literature about a deity he knows for a fact does not exist and peoples rhetoric of it? Must be. Your near daily appearance and 'constructive' critique of 99% the deity discussion forum is well noted, my friend. No excuses now.
  As always, the good school boy.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Know thine enemy".
  
  Watch out you don't trip over your ISM whilst you jump to erroneous conclusions.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "...don't trip over your ISM"
  -no worries, since yours is big enough to shadow just the HP masses Ism alone Besides, I have no ism. Merely observing, as any true philosopher would.
  
  "whilst you jump to erroneous conclusions."
  -Judgmental much? I see, dish it out to others, but don't take your own advice. Three cheers for atheist contradiction! Yes by far soooo much more appealing than theirs, no doubt. Make it up as you go, right?
  
  -ps, know thine enemy? Really? How did they become your enemy? When you chose to make them your enemy after indulging the same fantasy. Dear me, did the dungeon mistress not satisfy that nagging self submission. Not judging, just curious.
  
  Always the good school boy, eh Marcus...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a swine is more intelligent than a dog, ya know. But it doesn't care for pearls. It is very rooted in things that are mundane...
  
  the metaphor is accurate, you are at least above how canaanites describe themselves in relation to a jew (in the book you never read)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course I have read the book. And studied it - plus numerous others. You do it your way, I do it mine - oh wait - you know best. LOL
  
  Sure - that is what she meant.
  
  You obviously know nothing of swine - they will eat pearls along with anything else put in their path.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where is the judgment?
  Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?
  Are you inside my brain? You don/t have a clue as to what I mean.
  The post, I wrote, was AGREEING with you about the gov out of control spending and a few ways in which it could be improved.
  Dang mister. Sometimes, I get the opinion that you like to "discuss". But let me ask you something, how do you expect to hit a bulls eye if you keep aiming elsewhere?
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  mom101posted 4 days ago
  
  "I can't pass this one up. God does provide."
  
  Blatantly false. Starvation demonstrates otherwise.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do I need to be precise? Though He may not actually "hand" you things, He does see to it that needs are met.
  Starvation. Ok, here is a prime example. The US, sends huge amounts of food to countries in need. The food, though it may not be fine cuisine, will help to prevent starvation.
  Here is the clunker. The government of many of those countries, BLOCK the effort. Part 2. Greed is another deterrent. Some years ago a local "group" held a fundraiser to buy and send around 500 semi loads of food to a certain location. The food was purchased, trucking companies provided transportation to the loading docks, a few hours before the trucks were loaded, several individuals met and "borrowed" enough food to fill 60 large chest type freezers.
  Here in this country, there is NO reason for anyone to be hungry. No reason what so ever.
  2 blocks from my house, there is an overpass. Underneath that overpass lives 2 (that I know of) homeless people. They get food stamps. But one of them, sells his stamps to buy his beer.
  Provisions ARE there. People just abuse them.
  As you get older, you too will see and understand how things in the real world are.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anicholposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  
  The only religous problem we face is terroism and your blind if you think that is the worlds biggest problem.
  Perhaps a little culling of those who dont agree with you will fix the climate, overpopulation, starvation,unemployant, world debt and mans inability to care for one another."
  
  Yes, the 'Final Solution' so often practiced by Christians.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever Christians are practicing...Yes it is the final solution for the extinction of the human species.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's been the Christian 'Final Solution' for millennia.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anicol posted;
  
  [I guess bashing some self confessed christian will right the wrongs we inflict on ourselves.]
  
  Not at all. There are many Christians who are secure in their faith and don't bother others about it. Those folks are fine, they keep it the private thing they're told to.
  
  The ones who do get slammed are the cowardly and dishonest slime which slander others and refuse to address points raised by those pointing out they're full of fecal matter and they're off in la la land.
  
  [Religion is an escape for both believers and none believers.]
  
  Rubbish. Superstition is the escape for believers.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is there a left field over there? religion is full of people trying to be better and good beyond mans ordinary standards. The responsibility to change is huge for many and although the help of a higher being is incurred, does not mean the individual is not responsible. Since so many lives have been changed proves he is not absent at all. If you haven't seen changed lives, then i suggest you change clothes and go for a walk to a near by church or AA meeting.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Brotheryochanan, don't think you people should first try to live up to the measly ordinary standards, before they even attempt trying to live up to perfectionist standards?
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmm and the last war that christians started was when... WW1? WW2? vietnam? 1812? If i remember correctly the churches in america were helping the black people in the underground network. How about the current oil war in the middle east.. is that christian?
  Did you know that america and every other country is headed by freemasonry?
  
  Lets leave the christians alone and put blame where it belongs. Upon the greedy non god believers that abound everywhere in the world.
  
  IN the world, for example, if i want to be an astronaut. I first have to accumulate the proper degrees from school, then i have to join a place where astronauts hang out lol, then i have to have some time in astronaut training from a proper astronaut school facility. It is a common misconception that all roads lead to rome (god) when in our society there are narrow and certain paths and steps a person takes to become anything, doctor, nurse, garbage collector.. we cannot go to russia and study a russian god to get to the god of the bible. We cannot go to the mormons who use a different book than the canonized book of the god of the bible.. "Narrow is the way and few there be that find it, wide is the gate to destruction". this is not arrogance, but truth in your face! lol... i kinda like that expression
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  brotheryochanan--seems like some of the other contributers to this post like to dish it out but when someone writes back, they are criticized. To me, that is a cop-out. And have you noticed, our opinions, are stupid? At least, according to some.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mom101 posted this 41hrs ago:
  I am sorry you feel so insecure about your belief that you have to revert to tossing little insinuations out there about my faith.
  I was raised to treat others the way you want to be treated. Ok. I have a question for you. By the way you seem to disrespect other peoples decision of faith, is that your way of saying, hey world, treat me like a arrogant jerk? take that for what it is, a question. Not name calling.
  
  i rest my case about calling people ideas and laughable concepts, stupid.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I may have to be more precise. brother---I was talking to you, not about you, in my last reply. I was referring to a certain writer who apparently is so insecure of his belief that he feels the need to attack ours.
  I was not in any way calling you or him for that matter any name. I did however ask him a question. I even told him that it was a question.
  I have not, nor will I ever attack any ones belief, and I wish the same persons whose belief I do not attack would have the same respect of mine.
  And by the way, the question that I asked mark, was, since I am raised to treat others the way I want to be treated, should I then expect him to feel the same way, you know, treat him as he has us. If he does, then are we at liberty to treat him as he has us, which has been on numerous occasions, an arrogant jerk.
  Again, I am sorry if you felt that comment was about you. It was to you, about another writer.
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
Religion is not arrogant!
People are arrogant.
Not necessarily religious people either.
Any people!
But you already knew that, right.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wrong - religion is the arrogance of thinking you are something more than you are.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe we're a great deal more than you think we are. I certainly believe in life after death religion aside.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is your right to believe what you like, it is clear to me that to wish for life after death is just a function of our being aware of our own existence in the first place. That it is an utterly ridiculous idea to think that our conciousness survives to go on somewhere else.
  
  I have no problem with people believing anything - especially as it is not possible to prove any of this - either way - I do have a problem with religion that tries to spread tis kind of nonsense to others, usually vulnerable others.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are free to believe that too!
  As you do!
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  The difference is that the detrimental effects of religion per se can be seen throughout history, ie 'proved' - religion cannot prove anything.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who cares about what can be proved.
  It changes nothing!
  People do what they do...end of story.
  Politics or any ideology can have the same effect as religion.
  Ultimately it's people that suffer the consequences of their actions.
  That's the end result of any action.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, alternate poet, science is starting to agree with religion more and more. Especially quantum physics which now hypotheses that there are multiple dimensions universe (11 to be exact). We cannot see anything In the 4th through 11th dimensions, but we can see everything from the 3rd dimension down. What are in the other dimensions? Angels? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtdE662e … re=related
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Multiple dimension in the universes.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And those in 1st and 2nd dimensions can't see us like when we look at fish. They can't see us, but we can see them. Or ants etc.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Quite correct. And it is a long overdue reuniting of both the romantic and classic views. It is called Quality. Even as we type, the elite scientists (aka potion makers) are gathering their data, as they did once before, to build temples for the masses. The difference today, Ba`al has taken on a new face. That image is worshiped by nearly 99% of all humans today, no matter which title they prefer (atheist, agnostic, christian, muslim, hebrew, etc etc). Babylon...
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Btw, what is it that you're typing on, a keyboard for a computer, something made from the hard work of "elite scientists"?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your point, Beelz, is that you agree with me.
  
  (ps, it wasn't a scientist that designed the computer, it was an mathematician using abacus.)
  
  you could make a computer out of billiard balls...
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't.
  
  PS. The design of your computer has to take into account a tremendous amount of work of quite a number of scientists in order to function.
  
  Then, why aren't you using one made of billiard balls instead of one that was made by scientists? That way, when you insult scientists, you won't look like a hypocrite.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  he is talking about technology standing upon a concept.
  
  you cannot obviously make a computer with keyboard without the the binary system which is first and foremost a mathematical concept.
  
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It goes well beyond that. You can't even create a binary system in a computer without understanding the concepts of electromagnetic radiation and all the materials conductivity, first.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there you go...the point is technology stands upon more universal concepts that if you trace it back from its origins goes back to matters of the mind...products of imagination called by some as
  philosophy.
  
  it is all inter-connected and interdependent.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Seems that technology is a product of science, not philosophy. Philosophy is a system of belief, not observation.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wha-? Philosophy IS the observation without belief system(s). This is why philosophers are impartial and can actually use critical thinking; unlike the equation or sensationalists, who try to use critical thinking within their belief systems.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose you have lost your dictionary and are making up new definitions?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  have you ever been to the National Library? Lots of books of various topics there.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are hopelessly blind to synergy.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty weak argument.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  because its not an argument its an observation. I've been bouncing words with you enough to have one.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever you wish to call it, the reality is that it isn't an argument at all, but instead a strawman, one of many fallacies you often present in lieu of an argument to counter my points, here are some more examples of fallacies:
  
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  abacus ! abacus ! where for art thou abacus!
  you were the first system of equation, that used the stars and motions of the seasons to compute time/dates/information. --without silicon and plastic. Ah, Abacus, you lonely philosopher...
  
  did you know abacus was the start of board games like senet, chess, reversi, mancala, etc. Even blackjack.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe he needs more sleep, maybe then that dendrite will find its way to its family.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  An abacus is simply a counting tool, with a variety of base systems depending on the civilization that used them. A computer is not a counting tool unless you use a software program like a calculator, and uses a base binary system.
  
  Big differences, there. That abacus was not the forerunner of the computer, however you can take two Chinese abacus and put them together and they will show you how a computer stores information in ASCII.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you crack me up! seriously. I'm rolling in laughter. Gosh...man. Are you for real?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A computer is a device used to compute or calculate.
  Binary is abacus! It has been used long before oriental mathematics. In fact, it was used as the formula for most engineering in the ancient world, in music like a metronome and games like casting lots (dice) and the others mentioned. Hence why I said, you could use billiard balls to make a computer.
  
  So, as for definition altering, getting back to the topic, Philosophy is to observe a thing and formulate a critique based on that observation -without things like scientific method or ritual sensation. Kant and others had issues with this --even Blake-- due to a relative theory of experience v Cartesian Doubt . The argument says that experience of the belief system forms an accurate assessment of the critique (i.e. Mark Knowles v. The Theist Conundrum v The Flying Spaghetti Monster Sequel, hehe). The opposing side argues that experiencing the belief system, alters and diminishes purity of reason, because instead of pure observation, the experience makes everything subjective. Pure knowledge does not need to be experienced to be possessed by the mind. Also, why I repeat, there is no new information. Humans already know everything they need to. So perhaps Merriam Webster and the diction writers need a refresher course in linguistics. Besides, definitions are changing constantly to fit whatever social necessity or trend exists at that time and place.
  
  Edit: Arrogance, as explained via the aforementioned, exists and is displayed blatantly through either quoting for or against theistic scripts, public lashing in humor or mediocrity. The arrogance is humans having experienced something, then either dismissing it for lack of self desired outcome or indulging it for self rationale, in the hope it will lead to that revelation they have been searching for. So, the subjective is arrogant? Absolutely. How? The individual. Like our little binary, metronome, abacus even a pendulum. I think Cecilia described it well: two parrots.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If that's what you wish to believe, feel free.
  
  Please feel free to contact them with your requests to change definitions as per your beliefs.
  
  You mean, whatever suits the agenda of the moment.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a hypocrite of what? your belief system oh bugga!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  PeppermintPaddyposted
  
  "Actually, alternate poet, science is starting to agree with religion more and more."
  
  Bullshit. Objective supporting evidence the universe was manufactured?
  
  Rabbits don't chew their cud. Pigeon blood does not cure leprosy. Bats are not birds. A person cannot live in the belly of a whale {a whale couldn't swallow a person in the first place).
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  but religion is man-made, therefore it is made to be arrogant.
  
  Either way, a person or institution that claims they own the ultimate truth is arrogant.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, and not very smart because they close them to progress.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Would be nice to have an edit button around here. Maybe I should care less because E News is more interesting than being grammatically correct.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or typo correct, just to protect myself.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Protect myself from those who are interested in correcting people in forums. As silly as it is.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is an edit button. At your post press 'more' then select 'edit.'
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're more than welcome. Glad I could render assistance. :wave:
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  apparently there is only one true religion- Christianity -belief in Christ
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ROFLMAO
  
  Does anybody need more proof?
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm pretty much OK for proof thanks!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did she do that on purpose? If not, too funny.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  schoolgirlforreal posted the following unrepentant lie:
  
  "apparently there is only one true religion- Christianity -belief in Christ"
  
  That's nice little one {patting her on the head gently with a clue-by-4]. Run along now and don't pester the adults. There's a good girl.
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Nick Bposted 14 years ago
Religion is arrogant because in the majority of cases, it maages to completely ignore any other point of view, any other possibility and any other form of reasoning whatsoever.

Indeed, the Roman Catholic Church was even arrogant enough to change certain aspects of the Bible in order to fit with what they wanted at the time - which was power. The Bible that is now used has been doctored and is no longer the truth, which is possibly why some of it doesn't make sense.

This is the same church body that regardless of the population problems, still feels that contraception is wrong, yet they didn't stop castrating their choirboys until 1909.

Smacks to me of "Do as I say", not "Do as I do", which is what Jesus allegedly taught, which in my view is pretty arrogant alright.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which Jesus allegedly taught and practiced!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, Jesus didn't teach "do as I say, not as I do". The religious leaders taught that.
  
  Jesus taught people to love themselves, so they could have compassion for those who didn't know how. He taught people to consider people equal and not lessor.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He taught it by example. Jebus was a liar and a hypocrite as well as a thief and a Sabbath breaker as well as an unmedicated head case.
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cresandsuzanneposted 14 years ago
is it arrogant to regognize that the world is damaged? is it arrogant to realize you yourself are damaged? is it arrogant to want lifestyls that promote peace, love, understanding, honesty, and awareness of others? is it arrogant to admit your mistakes? if so then I AM ONE ARROGANT MOFO!
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  Nick Bposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One doesn't have to subscribe to any particular religion to be a good person; to recognise that the world is broken, or to recognise that religion is broken too.
  
  It should have occurred to more than a few by now that fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity. Fighting in the name of religion is even worse as it displays an inability to "turn the other cheek".
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  u made good point nick...i agree with u..
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Religion can be arrogant, but it doesn't have to be.
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
You guys are supposed to be writers!

How can a concept be arrogant?

My car is arrogant.
My chair too.
Oh, my computer, well it's over the top arrogant.
Give me a break!!!
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've been writing artificial intelligence long enough, I think your computer could be arrogant. Or at least it could seem arrogant to an observer ... it would be an interesting Turing test.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wonder how long it will be before a computer is able to pass the Turing test.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's called anthropormorphizing (Bad spelling) attaching human emotions or characteristics to inanimate objects.
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SilentReedposted 14 years ago
Are we talking of religion as a belief system or as an institution ?
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Shil1978posted 14 years ago
Religion itself isn't something that came into being on its own. The people are the ones who are arrogant. The ones who think they know the best and can't bear to hear any criticism of their religion. The ones who feel that their religion is the only pathway to heaven and the ones who believe that all the rest (non-believers) would go to hell!!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You've just described every christian. People who do not hold the beliefs you listed are not holding to the central tenets of christianity and therefore would not be considered christians despite whatever they may choose to call themselves.
  
  Look I'm not saying every christian is blatantly arrogant. I'm saying that the belief system itself, the worldview of exclusivity necessarily fosters some degree of arrogance in those who hold to it.
  
  I can easily give a pass to our less free and informed ancestors. But in our modern world, knowing what we know, even just the basic stuff everybody knows, you cannot possess common knowledge of the world both as it is today and also its history, a passing awareness of anthropology and a bit of reasoning skill, adopt a worldview that a certain group of people -to which you belong- are saved by the same being who intends to thoroughly decimate the vast remainder of humanity, and not be likely to explain this supposedly holy rampage with a touch of being -somehow, someway- better than them. Otherwise their destruction isn't justified.
  
  In order to accept that mass destruction of your fellow human beings, one consciously or otherwise accepts instead that somehow one is better than those who are to be destroyed. Either you were good enough or desirous enough of goodness to choose god and I wasn't -freewill, or, god loved you enough to save you and not me -calvinism.
  
  Either the way the arrogance is innately a part of the worldview. We're all different, so in some of us -you- -christians- this arrogance is more obvious, in others it's more subtle. A regretful sigh for all those who just didn't make the cut.
  
  Again, it's not just about arrogance, but insecurity as well. They have to think themselves even just ever-so-slightly better than nonbelievers in order to feel secure or comfortable in their beliefs.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good point...
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thisisoliposted 14 years ago
I don't think arrogance is down to religion, more down to people. I have met both Christians and Atheists who have been arrogant and others humble.

I think the large majority of true Christians are deluded, but I don't think that necessarily makes them arrogant.

I probably come across as arrogant with my atheist viewpoint, but that is simply because I do not really tolerate foolish behaviour too well, and that is how I kind of feel about religion.
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
To prove my assertion that arrogance is an innate byproduct of the Big 3 religions, I offer you exhibit A: Should Christians Waste Their Time Debating With Unbelievers -a forum topic currently directly listed below this one.

Therein you will find a few very explicit examples of christians exhibiting arrogance to help them to accept their god's ever-imminent destruction of the rest of humanity.
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Rishy Richposted 14 years ago
Books are the guide = Books are perfect = Books are arrogant = Yes, religions are arrogant
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Mark Knowles wrote ...
Personally I think "hubristic" is a better description in any case. I am an arrogant so and so myself - but I have good reason.

------------------------------

Jerami That is my point! The air that we breath is full of excuses and self justification for doing or not doing anything that we want to do or do not want to do.

Just grab an excuse out of the air.

There is no such thing as got to or caint.
Cain't means don't want to very much!
Got to means want to very much.
Just pick an excuse that fits our desires.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. You should notice a joke when you see it dude. Too busy praying for the end huh?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The funniest JOKES are most always based on some truth.
  
  I thought that for just a moment ya let a little honesty slip out.
  
  Sorry I was wrong. Please forgive me.
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tylrmoenposted 14 years ago
if you look at it this way and say that people need religion or this entire world can and will go into a deep state of chaos and will eventually burn to the ground. if people did not believe that there was a right or a wrong and did not believe that they could or even would be punnished for their actions then people would do what they pleased. since there is religion people who normally would do something bad would and people who already do bad would do it even more. religion holds people to a higher standard than they believe possible. now that, thats said we move on to which religion is correct. we never will be able to tell until we die which religoin is correct or if all religion is correct in one aspect or another. my point of view is that religion as a organization like the ones who ask for donations are just straght up beggers asking for money to make themselfs rich by falsly believing in a religion just for the money. now when you look at christianity (which is what i am) you see people praying to god everyday mostly on sunday. now when you pray to god what do you pray about. money, food, fame, fortune, something unlikly to happen or even just to get a girlfriend/boyfriend. now say your prayer doesnt get answered what do you say "oh well it must have been in gods will." you see god has a devine plan and he sticks to his plan. it is all because he made this pland a long time ago and decided to put it into practice. now what if what you want isnt in gods devine plan what do you want to do have him change his plan. why would god make a devine plane if every man with a $2 prayer book can come along and mess up his plan. this is the one thing that really gets me about the entire religion idea. y would you have a almighty god who is going to do what he wants to any why that he pleases and thinks he is going to change everything he was planning just because you prayed for it. that is my input i just created a page not too long ago come visit it and talk to me. ^_^
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srwnsonposted 14 years ago
Perhaps some denominations are arrogant. I don't think all religious people are. I know other christian drivers like myself that are very, very kind.(hope that didn't sound arrogant,) Perhaps others view it as such. We see so much suffering over a large portion of the country
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, no, not all religious people are arrogant. Many/most are happy and honest kindly folk who privately practice their religion. They treat their religion as the precious thing others say it is while treat it with less respect than a penny in a parking lot.
  
  The former folk I have great respect for. Seems to me they're quite secure in their faith.
  
  Yes, there's so much suffering over a large portion of the country-inflicted by other Christians {not restricted to just them}. Sadly, such {according to Christianity} is by 'loving design' and part of the 'divine plan.'
  
  Religion can be a beautiful thing. Sadly, its main use is destructive and divisive. That is my main objection.
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Italmeansumthinposted 14 years ago
I don't think all religions are arrogant. I myself practice a different kind of faith. But to me, showing respect and kindness towards other religions is important to me. I think that when certain people do let their ego get a little high, then they choose to stay in their own world and place themselves up on pedastols and put everyone else who believes differently below them.
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alexandriaruthkposted 14 years ago
In both ways, those who are believers and non believers can be arrogant at times. Religions are not arrogant, people are.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We gotta feel sory for people that are better than everyone else. Gotta be lonley up there.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No really, it's not so bad
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is an unexpected joy! I am happy for you.
  
  May I ask ? how crowded is it there?
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More than you might think!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm so OLD that nuttin suprises me any more!
  I guess that makes me psycic ??? or maybe psyco.
  
  I forget what the difference is..... HELP!
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  <snicker>
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ROFL!
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Zubyreposted 14 years ago
I follow Falun Gong, which is actually a belief system but alot of people call it religion, it's being banned in China for no reason other than the Chinese Communist Party can't tolerate something good and humane like Falun Gong, which includes qigong practice which can only be good. It teaches people to adhere to truthfulness compassion and tolerance.

I don't consider myself to be arrogant, elitist, special, dogmatic, in need of a father figure, or anything like that. Everyone needs a place to hang their hat whether they are a new age individualist, Christian, group of atheists, muslims etc.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  May God grant you the freedom to follow the dictates of your heart and protect you from those who would try to steal it from you.
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  PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I ditto that.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Falun gong is a confidence trick not a religion
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice profile painting.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Zubyreposted 4 days ago
  
  "I follow Falun Gong, which is actually a belief system but alot of people call it religion, it's being banned in China for no reason other than the Chinese Communist Party can't tolerate something good and humane like Falun Gong, which includes qigong practice which can only be good. It teaches people to adhere to truthfulness compassion and tolerance."
  
  Had to look up 'qigong practice.' Sounds like a good overall approach. :thumbs up:
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bsscorpio8posted 14 years ago
No. People are.
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Nick Bposted 14 years ago
I'm beginning to wonder whether religion makes people intolerant.

I don't know whether it's the people or the religion. All I can see from here is that many feel they're right, but are not willing to agree that belief is not a case of one size fits all.

So many people with so many beliefs, yet so few are prepared to say that they're happy that others have found their direction, whether it's Judaism, Roman Catholicism, Wiccan or any of a myriad other religions or belief systems. You don't have to agree with them, just know that there are different strokes for different folks.

Few seems to feel confident enough in their beliefs that they can let others be themselves, knowing that when those others are ready or willing, they might ask what it is that makes them so happy.

That's when the information flows, not when it's rammed down the throats of people who don't necessarily want to hear, which does no more than push them away.

Religion itself may not be arrogant, it may not be anything other than a vehicle to spark intolerance in people who otherwise wouldn't say boo to a goose.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No people=no religion.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  quiet right...so my way only way is manifestation of human's arrogance and religion has nothing to do with it?
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nick B posted
  
  [I'm beginning to wonder whether religion makes people intolerant.]
  
  Depends on the person. It can foster/amplify such tendencies.
  
  [I don't know whether it's the people or the religion. All I can see from here is that many feel they're right, but are not willing to agree that belief is not a case of one size fits all.]
  
  Part may be fear or envy. I'm referencing post which indicate their religion is the only thing keeping them from rampaging.
  
  [So many people with so many beliefs, yet so few are prepared to say that they're happy that others have found their direction, whether it's Judaism, Roman Catholicism, Wicca or any of a myriad other religions or belief systems. You don't have to agree with them, just know that there are different strokes for different folks.]
  
  That's just it. Its like cola products. Christian insist 'Coke is it[tm],' while others prefer a different brand while others don't care for cola at all.
  
  [Few seems to feel confident enough in their beliefs that they can let others be themselves, knowing that when those others are ready or willing, they might ask what it is that makes them so happy.]
  
  Thing is Christians [not all inclusive, specialize in demonstrating they're bloody miserable.
  
  [That's when the information flows, not when it's rammed down the throats of people who don't necessarily want to hear, which does no more than push them away.]
  
  Exactly. Of course, it can't be the fault of that ttttrrrrrrruuuueeee Xian.
  
  Religion itself may not be arrogant, it may not be anything other than a vehicle to spark intolerance in people who otherwise wouldn't say boo to a goose.
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Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years ago
I could be late on this, but if Jews are considered religious, then, yes, religion is arrogant.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Yes, religion is arrogant.
It facilitates weak kneed child molesters and loonies to runs around telling others how moral they should be.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How moral they are.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
You got the bit about opinions right.
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Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago
Cousin - As you are too lazy to learn how the formatting works - I will not bother responding at length.

Not really worth responding to yet another ridiculous defense of your irrational - apparently perfect - religion. LOLOLO

I heartily suggest reading a few books outside your hate-filled tome. You may learn how the world works instead of blaming it on not doing wot god sed.

God sed "go forth and multiply" and "you have dominion over." So - the corporations are doing wot god sed.

See how that means your reply is utter nonsense?

I see you are defending the money changers also - I wonder if you even read the book you keep sticking down people's throats?
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
I wonder if he can figure out how science started out....(dear gosh, i hope he doesn't see THE BIBLE THERE)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OH GOSh - you mean I was lied to and the ancient Egyptians (2000 BC) and Chinese (2000BC) never started SCIENCE - it is all a big lie wot sez wot god diddit in the bible? Damn - I need to rewrite my history.
  
  Gawd, Woowoo - all that time away and you do not know that SCIENCE started thousands of years before The Nonsense was written.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  didnt get you..how science started?
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
Religion is just silly.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion is as silly as two parrots with a highly developed limbic brain.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why I am not surprised that you got it.
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
Philosophy came first, when it worked stuff out it became a discrete branch, or a science, when it could not work out the answer it spun off religions.

People seemed to be so much more clever collectively before religion addled their brains beyond redemption.
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BRHANDAposted 14 years ago
NO. NOTAT ALL. YOUR AFFIRM UNSHAKEN FAITH IN ONE. ONE WHO CREATED THE UNIVERSE & living persons on it. Religion means to rely to have faith, DHARM ..dharna. to solemnly affirm, i wil do good deals, SHUBH KARMA. for himself and humanbeings
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waynetposted 14 years ago
Yes, it smells bad!
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Navyman05posted 14 years ago
I just wanted to post on here that I have created some hubs for people that may be having trouble with parenting and relationships . I will be adding a new hub everyday, so if you would like to follow my hubs because they are vary helpful follow my profile link and subscribe to my RSS feed. I also have many other related links on my hubs that may be helpful as well. Please feel free to add comments as I will add comments to your hubs.

http://hubpages.com/profile/Navyman05
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Navyman,
  
  You should not be posting your profile to the forums. It is attached to your picture.
  
  It makes no sense. Just thought you should know.
  
  Welcome to HubPages!
  
  Secondly, there is NO Self Promotion ALLOWED In Forums!
  reply report

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is religion arrogant?

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is religion arrogant?

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