I've often been accused of being arrogant, and it's usually by people who disagree with me about something. I've noticed that some of my favorite historical personages have also been accused of arrogance. What exactly is arrogance? And is it always bad?
Is there any non-pejorative way to say that someone is arrogant? Can you say, for instance, "I admire your arrogance"?
Sometimes I admire arrogance if it is expressed as a true self confidence.
I think substituting the word confidence is much less pejorative. As in: "I admire your confidence".
To me 'arrogance' is somewhat synonymous with 'dogmatism' which is, more often than not, disliked by people. Arrogance does involve 'firm conviction' which, of course, is the upside but I believe that one can hold on to one's views without projecting arrogance and at the same time show some respect for the views of others as well. It, however, does not mean that one has to agree with the other person's view point but there is a way to show disagreement without creating unpleasantness.
I say it all the time. I like arrogance in most people.
Lets be honest, it all depends on time, place and situation. We've all been arrogant at sometime.
Hmmm, interesting question. To me being arrogant means that you make other people feel bad about themselves without appearing to value their opinion (not that you have to agree with them). I think it's all in the way something is said. In my humble opinion (trying not be arrogant , arrogance is not a good thing, but confidence and assertativeness are good, but they walk a fine line with arrogance.
Sometimes thinking clearly appears to be thinking at light speed (from someone else's perspective). It can frustrate them to realize or understand that they are operating at a slower speed (this sounds really arrogant, doesn't it?). I am accused of being arrogant when I know what I'm doing but for important reasons (deadlines, safety, etc) don't have time to explain it with pictures and diagrams.
Now I make a conscious effort to mask this tendency by questioning folk (if there's time to do it this way) until they come to the right conclusions, and get them to think it's their idea in the first place. Saves hassle, and some ill-feeling. Is that arrogant of me?
Positive arrogance is confidence, and if people trust you, they think "oh, so-and-so is so capable and confident." However, if they don't know you well enough to trust you, or (sometimes) if you are a woman (sorry, but it is sometimes the case) then they think you are arrogant.
It's their perception, either way. We can't control what folk are going to think. All we can do is let our actions speak for us in situations that need diplomacy.
Thank, I was looking for that kind of answer.
Many times people call me arrogant, even if we are communication by mail they call me the see arrogance in me.
but i tell them that "I am not arrogant I am focuced"
Arrogance isn't so bad when you've got the minerals to back it up. Thats the way I see it.
Arrogant people don't usually care what others think anyway.
True arrogance in the pejorative sense is actually insecurity masking as confidence. I deal with quite a few personalities in this mode (I'm thinking of a certain chef I work with who is all about the narcissistic and his own self-promotion).
This is a different thing than just using what you were given, asking good questions, being interested and passionate in life, expression, discussion, displaying ambition or any of a number of things people may see, for lack of a better term, as "uppity."
Yes, Teresa is right. Women of a certain independence and presence of mind get this a lot. And it isn't and should not be your issue. They are displaying their own insecurity if they choose to perceive you as such.
One can only go so far in making others feel 'comfortable' (and I believe that to be a decent human thing to do). If they cannot pick up the figurative ball from there, there's nothing more you really can do. You do learn, sometimes, that diplomacy, or as I like to call it--enlightened Machiavellian-ism--has its place!
Arrogant people come across in a bad light. The trait doesn't make people receptive to them and its a turn-off.
Sadly, some people's actions can be mis-interpreted as Arrogance, even though they weren't intended to be.
Your last question: You can't say "I admire your arrogance" cos its a negative trait.
Arrogant is generally always a negative thing. What happens (as Lita suggested, especially for women) is that some people see arrogance when it isn't there.
The arrogance issue is once with which I've always battled, both in person (sometimes, and with some people) and in my writing. I know all the areas in which I have "borderline to no" knowledge, so I remain fairly quiet when those areas are being discussed (or I'll at least say, "I don't know enough to have an opinion"). So, if I'm talking about it or writing about it, it means I know what I'm talking about. I'm someone who educates myself, researches, listens, and has a certain amount of experiences in x number of areas. I don't say I'm sure unless I know it's based on "good information". If I'm not sure I'll say it.
What happens then is that, in general, if I'm having a substantial discussion on something I'm pretty sure about I'm what I'm saying. A lot of people don't like sureness (and I've got a look that makes me people like it even less; I don't come across as looking authoritative or intimidating). So, sometimes people who would be ok with sureness in a 6-foot, deep-voiced, guy are not ok with the same sureness in a woman with a "little" voice. It's as is subconsciously people think some other "types" don't have a right to their sureness.
As a result, I often find myself being particularly "folksy" and friendly, just to make sure people know I'm not arrogant. That backfires, though, because then they REALLY underestimate one's intelligence. The only other option is to just act sure and risk being seen as arrogant, which allows the other person to then not like you even if, in reality, you're not really arrogant at all. The moral to the story is women (and some more than others) can't win sometimes.
Thanks, everyone. I'm glad to see that my experiences with this concept are not at variance with yours. Lita, Teresa and Lisa, you've described what I've come up against.
I think it may be women who get this label more often, though I think it's possible for a man who is not seen as particularly assertive to end up being labeled that way when he does express a confident opinion which is at variance with conventional views.
Any men have this experience?
men areonly called arrogant by women. And they dont care.
just kidding. My personal opinion is...arrogance IS bad. But often you will get called arrogant, when you are not. Being right, and assertive in your beliefs is a good thing. People who feel bad about themselves will call that arrogant. (I think I keep spelling that wrong? sorry...) I have read alot of your posts and comments and some of your huns, I wouldnt call you arrogant at all. there is a big difference between self assured and that.... other word I cant spell.
Aya, I've been giving this some thought for a while. The working hypothesis that I have now is - I am being arrogant when I believe my opinion on the matter in question is the only true one.
Okay, Misha, I recognize this line of thought. Some people voice this accusation using the rhetorical question: "So you think you have a monopoly on the truth?"
I never understood that one, either. The truth is the truth. Sometimes we are right. Sometimes we are wrong. Sometimes we are sure about something. Sometimes we're not so sure.
But if you happen to believe that something, two plus two is four, for instance, is true, does that make you arrogant?
Yes, if you do not allow for it to be three or five for other people or under other circumstances
Just an example - two liters of water and two liters of sugar together are much less than four liters
But there's a still a right and a wrong in your examples, Misha. One can be right or wrong about mixing water and sugar, but the facts don't alter.
If someone is mistaken about what happens when sugar and water are mixed, surely that doesn't make him arrogant, either.
The fact that s/he is mistaken does not make him arrogant. Insisting on having THE TRUTH does.
Okay. But then ... supposing someone insists on something being true, and it is? In that case, is it still arrogance.
I find it hard to accept that arrogance depends on the truth value of the thing being asserted. If it does, then being arrogant is a little like being wrong and not knowing that you're wrong.
Yep, for me it is still arrogance. For me it is not about BEING right or wrong, it is about FEELING being right.
But there's a kind of exaltation that comes over a person when he thinks he's discovered the truth about something that wasn't known before. It's a kind of "Eureka!" moment. I agree, one isn't being humble at that moment. Humility and exaltation just don't mix.
I suppose, in a case like that, one should dance a jig privately, but present a sober face to the public?
Weirdly, I agree with Misha on this. It isn't having a different answer or even having what you are absolutely certain and confident is the right answer, it's insisting that the other person defer to your 'rightness' long past the the point where that person haas said 'no thank you.'
It's a matter of respect, IMO. To respect another person doesn't mean you agree with that person, but it does mean that at some point you acknowledge that in spite of your disagreements you recognize the other person as valid and worthy as a human being. Arrogant people cross some kind of invisible line and manage to convey that others are worth less if they do not see the rightness of the arrogant person.
My dictionary says this about the word "arrogate," from which the word "arrogant" derives.
"To arrogate is to take on a right or responsibility to which one is not entitled."
So, in the context of these forums and HP, I personally find men and women arrogant when they presume to take away my right to think for myself and take on the responsibility of substituting their thinking for mine, as if I don't want to keep that responsibility for myself or am incapable of handling such a responsibility.
Often people are called arrogant because they lack manners. They aren't really arrogant, they just don't know how to talk with other human beings without pissing them off.
Would it make me arrogant if I pointed out the fact that sugar is measured in kilograms (or if you prefer pounds) and not liters?
Liters are used to measure volume, not weight.
Well, everybody is free to choose whatever way of measurement they want I guess. For the purpose of my example it was important to use volume measures, not weight. In terms of weight one can't really show that two and two does not always equal four without resorting to Relativity Theory - which is way to complicated for a forum post
A kilo of flour is going to be a kilo of flour, whether it's sifted or not. I wouldn't ask for a liter of flour.
Is your sugar brown sugar, raw sugar, white sugar, caster sugar or icing sugar? A kilo of each is going have different volumes. And if you tried to measure them by the liter you'd end up with different weights.
I'd avoid giving analogies that requires an illustration that is based on flawed information.
Now you can either accept what I've had to say, or you can continue to deny it and demonstrate both ignorance and arrogance
If you went around claiming that 2 + 2 = 5, despite what anyone else said, insisting it was true regardless of the facts, then that would be arrogant!
see, that is what I was trying to say. People get mad when they cant change your mind. But they say arrogant, when its really not. Its self confidence and conviction, both good things. this is the webster definition of arrogant:
"an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions"
I think there is a big difference between "presumptious assumtions", and being right.
That could also mean by definition that you're being self-righteous.
Kind of silly to accuse anyone of being arrogant. I know some people have accused my sister of being arrogant because she reallly does not socialize with people, but in actuality she is just reserved and more introverted. Of course I have known people who say they are proud to be arrogant, and that of course is their perrogrative.
I am arrogant and I like it, who says its bad, lifes losers ?
LOL Aya, I would rather think not of moment of discovery, but about a conversation some time later. This is when I often catch myself pushing my truth down people throats
CabinGirl, who would have thought?
LOL CG I never forget about one girl for another, I love all girls
Misha trust me that Aya is a little tramp and if I ever meet her I will so punch her for messin with the Captain
Awww Aya is a lovely girl and doesnt look trashy n trampy in her avatar
It might be a tricky task CG, I bet Bow will try to defend Aya, and you'll have to mess with him before you get to her
There is no such thing as positive arrogance, because arrogance has an added negative quality when compared to something we could call noble attitude. And still arrogance is not a subversion of this latter phenomenon, because it comes from an entirely different source. It can be a lack of confidence but also a lack of intelligence or empathy. Either way, arrogance can't be turned into anything positive, because as I said it's rooted in a negative trait.
Btw, a head-on attack against all falsehood written in these forums can be found here: Julius Evola - Revolt Against The Modern World. If you are arrogant you'll not be able to read it. If you are noble at heart it will change everything.
Every virtue has a defect built in, so that when you take a virtue to an extreme, it becomes a vice. The vice of confidence is arrogance.
I think in some cases a thing taken to an extreme can become an art form and I've seen arrogance in that category before. It's rather alluring.
Like I've said, I have a problem with arrogance and pride. The rush of power may be alluring, but I've always regretted feeding into that sense of power. Rather than a source of strength, it's a source of weakness. Rather than becoming stronger, in reality, you're becoming numb.
I agree super arrogance in men makes them vulnerable. Perhaps it is that vulnerability combined with the confidence that makes them so attractive. Women approach men from so many angles and maternal is definitely a part of it at times.
I knew women were out to get us. See I'm not paranoid. You're not paranoid when people really are out to get you.
that's what they say... even paranoids have real enemies, lol.
yeah, we're slick that way. I think it's instinctual.
Arrogance is masked insecurity. The highest level of awareness is humility where you can let go of ego because you are secure enough in who you are. Many people who become what they consider successful become arrogant but if they could reach high enough in their development they would come full circle to humility. Arrogance is never good!
That's quite an assumption about arrogance. Arrogance is a blind spot. It's not about being afraid you're wrong and hiding it. It's knowing you're right no matter what the true facts of the matter are. There's no room for insecurity. Remember arrogance is the vice of confidence, not insecurity.
I keep telling people that I'm arrogant. You think they'd accept that as Gospel by now.
You are supposed to feel baaaaaaaaaad about that But at least you recognize it. Most don't
I've always been incorrigible about that. What can I say, girls find it cute.
That is ledefensetech showing his humble side. It is not so bad being arrogant if you can be humble about it!
I never said it was about being afraid you're wrong and hiding it. And it is simply impossible to know you are right unless you are right. To know is to understand. It's all about insecurity that's why Jesus will never be arrogant. If someone is secure they have no need to belittle people which is arrogance.
I agree a good self worth values others highly too.
ok, this time I'm really leaving and Misha, ha, I caught that about me driving stock up. That was mean!!!
You both are manipulators
And not stock Idunn, oil prices, it's a bit different
Master manipulator, thank you very much. Besides I have to practice, you know, keep in the game.
Let's say that I was damn certain I was right on something (and this has happened...thanx budweiser) and I refused to listen to anyone claiming otherwise. In their eyes I would be arrogant. Now let's say that a while later, I find out that they were all correct and I was wrong. The first thing I think to myself is, "oh man...I really had that wrong...I must have looked like some arrogant frigging fool!". But then I admit my error, except that I was wrong and they were right, and sit there red-faced in my own embarrassment. Does this mean that as a person I am arrogant?
Unless you own up to it, yes. I've even done that without the help of liquid courage. But if you have the stones to make such statements in the first place, the least you can do is own up when you're being an a$$.
Oh I agree...what I meant about the "liquid courage" is that this is when I usually act like an arrogant ass. Depending on the timing of the obvious refutation, I may or may not still be "under the influence"...LOL! Neverthe less, I will admit defeat...
Sorry, that didn't sound like I thought it. I meant to say I've made an arrogant ass of myself without the help of liquid courage.
If you still think a person does not change over time - it does
Logic is, at times, a great way to go wrong with confidence.
Or is it that because we pride ourselves on being logical, that sometimes we let our confidence get in the way in light of a better prepared argument against us? If we enter a debate with someone whom, at the time is better prepared, we may find ourselves spooging "not so accurate" facts because we are sure we are right but don't have the exact resources at our fingertips to prove it. This could make us look like total asses too, even if, in the end, we were right all along.
One of the best quotes I've ever heard is "Surprise happens in the mind of the commander". It captures perfectly our ability to see something, ignore it and still think we've seen everything. How you react to that phrase is probably the best indicator I know in predicting how someone will react in a crisis situation. Or any other unexpected situation, for that matter.
LOL! How true is that?! I hadn't heard that one before...Kudos!
PGrundy, so really, as used here in the Forums to reprimand another poster, "arrogance" just means "you have poor social skills."
Sometimes. But more often it's a willful lack of respect for the other. The arrogant person is capable of developing social skills but sees no need for social skills.
Arrogance is really a form of narcissism. I think you could accurately call it "aggressive narcissism." Self is all the arrogant person needs.
While each person is free to see that quality as admirable, I do not see it that way. I think people need each other, and live best in relationship to each other. I choose to interact with people who show me a least a token measure of respect--respect as in, I see your position though I disagree with it. I see you as separate and valid even though our views differ.
I agree that we can all improve our social skills with effort, and that the effort is well worth it.
Something to keep in mind, though, is that we don't all start from the same level of skill, and that for some it is an uphill battle to arrive at the same skill level that the average person takes for granted.
Rules of common courtesy that I try to hold myself to include:
* No ad hominem attacks. (That is, I don't attack the character of the person I disagree with. I try to stick to the facts and the abstract underpinnings of an argument. No name calling -- which includes calling someone arrogant, of course.)
* Distinguishing what is a matter of personal preference and what is a matter of immutable fact.
* Acknowledging when I don't know whether a particular alleged fact is true or false.
* Keeping an open mind about different definitions used by people for the same words. (It's a real stumbling block to communication.) When I notice two people use the same word differently, I try to clarify what I mean by the term.
These are good rules that even someone with less than stellar social skills should be able to adopt.
Theres a fine line called tact,that lies between confidence and arrogance.
Tact is a very finely tuned skill. Many people lack it, despite good intentions. Tact is to normal social skills as absolute hearing is to musical ability.
Surely we can work out some ground rules that everyone can follow, not just those super-socially adept people who have mastered tact?
Sorry Aya Katz looks like I missed out a large part of my earlier comment...here’s the full comment;)
There’s a fine line called tact that lies between confidence and arrogance. It’s very easy to confuse the two.
A confident person in a discussion for example, tends to acknowledge that everyone in the conversation has both strengths and weaknesses, so will remain humble in both aspects while voicing their opinion. They also know when to end a discussion. An arrogant person on the other hand will highlight weaknesses only and show themselves as the better person in the conversation. They also usually insist in having the last word.This fine line of tact, is knowing when to end the discussion, before coming off as arrogant. So to answer your question I guess most people would prefer to be called 'confident' rather than ‘arrogant’.
Also I notice people who might normally lack confidence in real life, suddenly have this burst of expressive mood in forums (like Hubpages) and other online interactive sites ,but in real life social situations might otherwise be meek n passive ( or be a minority group).
I guess for some people its easier to have their say without fear of challenge or any ramifications.
So the majority type thoughts, as close to how they would normally commuincate, and the others like to flex some muscle or their boobs and get in your face
A conversation with multiple partners requires social skills that are harder to master than merely giving a lecture. The shy person at the party will expound on his favorite topic, if given an opening. It may not be aggression or arrogance. It may be the only mode of communication available. That... and silence.
Lita, yes and no. Thanks for asking.
I don't find it easy to make small talk, but I'm not shy about expressing my opinion, if asked. Or if I think the conversation is a public one.
"Small talk" is highly over rated. I've learned to do it and do it pretty well, but it is also so boring--just a way to make social situations flow better, I guess... And those who truly excel at it, I've found, are usually not that interesting to really talk to anyway, .
Is arrogance confidence or over-confidence?
Or is it just rudeness.
If I had made my previous comment and went on to imply that Misha was an idiot for not knowing that weight and volume are two different things, that would make me arrogant.
But is arrogance arrogance? Or is it just someones opinion?
I'm sure there are plenty of confident people who are right about the things they stand for who are accused of being arrogant.
Sometimes arrogance can be an "I don't care" attitude. And that may not necessarily come from a bad place. If a person excels at something there will come a time that you'll get some people who want to hate you as much as 'fans' adore you. They could hate you because of success. A person can waste a lot of time on those haters by caring about their opinions, or they could simply have an "I don't care" attitude. Which will quickly be labeled as the person being arrogant.
Personally I don't think 'arrogance' can be neatly confined to a box. It can be used as a weapon by a person or against a person, it can be even be a tool to brush away the ill will that comes with someone elses ignorance. It means many things to many people.
Most of time bossy, confident, stubborn people are called Arrogant, Even though they are not Arrogant.
Confidence comes from success, achievements, wins, good deeds.
Confident people have estimated their success and achievements truly so they know how to behave.
Over-Confident people have just over-estimated their success,achievements, position So they so their behaviour is soome times annoying.
Arrogant person has not just over-estimated what they did, but they dont have true knowledge about what they are proud of, they have low self-esteem.
So people may feel annoyed,depressed and insulted with those kind of people during arguments, disscussion or even while talking with them.
Arrogant people are wasting of time
but we can cope with over confident people
I think arrogance is being overconfident to the point that you only believe to yourself. Maybe it's too much. not so sure...
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