Genesis 3 19
In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.
Nothing to argue about in that verse.
sure...but my question is not that..my question is what was purpose behind disallowing eating something which would give knowledge?..why god wanted humans to remain ignorant ?
Im not sure
22 And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken.
The way i understand it is adam could have went on happy in the garden without knowing the concept of right or wrong but once eating the fruit his eyes opened and then he was able to make a choice.
In Gen 3:10 would suggest that adam and eve before eating the fruit had innocence much like a child does.
I remember how different life felt as child till i grew up and my eyes opened to the reality of life.
Because the ignorant are easier to control.
Because God was furnishing everything. Total and complete dependence on Himself, God was the state of Adam and Eve and it was perfect. Without a life line from God, human minds discerning what is right or what is wrong lead to unthinkable acts...mainly destruction for the sake of power...later facing his mortality.
Genesis is not written by Moses; it is written by many anonymous scribes. The original Word of Revelation in the text of original Revelation is lost; translations create confusion. Instead of Bible it should be understood from Quran which is secure and protected in the original Arabic; from there it should be understood.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
how do u know it is secure and protected..remember caliph who ordered back all quran...then published a standard version..now how can u be too sure that standard version produced didnt miss out anything..it was years after peigambar died...
"I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim" what does this mean?
Hi friend emdi
I think all the words in that sentence are simple. Is it not?
First, it wasn't the tree of knowledge. It was tree of [the] knowledge of good [and] evil. The human mind had everything born into it, perfectly. Eating of the tree of knowing the difference between both caused humans to become slaves to their own thoughts, when previously, they were superior to them. In short, they did not need to know.
Eating would cause them to lose their rightful place as united heaven & earth entities and be the only [complete/perfct] universal expression of Creator.
Having chosen to indulge, humans lost their free will and became slaves to choice. Thus, removing them from the 'Garden' so as not not eat of the Tree of [Eternal] Life --resulting in never ending slavery to themselves.
except for 21 who with his superior knowledge of isms is above all that.
I also find it a sad way of thinking, so as to support your reasoning of a creator.
Because, it even defeats what the bible says about god giving free will to humans, so as to make choices. Which supposedly is how they can choose or not choose to believe in god/him/her/it.
If a person doesn't have free will, then they do not think for themselves, and would be still connected to nature. Also meaning, that they would have no consciousness(awareness of life).
Sorry, must disagree. But then again, I also disagree with a god/creator. As you already know....
Precisely the problem. This is choice. Free will does not need, want, indulge itself, is not self seeking, careful or careless, full of concern, does not doubt, knows all things it needs to, is ever constant and complete, peaceful, abounds with every kind of happiness. Choice is the opposite of them all. Needing to choose IS a total lack of Free Will and is a total consciousness of self -- that self's necessity/limitation. (see all of human history).
Hey Twenty One Days,
Free will means free thinking ability. It is inherent to having consciousness(awareness of life).
Free will allows for a choice to be made. These two things are not opposites as you claim. One allows the other to exist.
Choice cannot be made if there is no free will. Your interpretation of free will is completely whacked.
Choice does not exist if Free will does not exist.
This is utter nonsense. Your so called "critical" thinking skills have lapse you into delusions.
-duh. Free Will does not NEED choice. Choice needs Free Will. Without free will you would have no choice. But indulgance of choice is the problem and ignoring free will itself.
-I see, so your definition and lack of understanding lead you to express a personal statement about me, knowing nothing about me. Selfish much? Dear me, Ray. PS, "whacked" is that a technical term?
Oh look a second round of I can't comprehend so I'll resort to belittling?
Nonetheless, here is a brownie button, for effort- in joining the good school boys.
Indulgence of choice is the problem? That is pathetic sounding, just like the delusional aspects of a creator. Ignoring freewill itself? You cannot ignore free will.
No knowing anything about you? LOL! You're a riot. I know more about than I care, simply because you refuse to keep your mouth shut. WOW! Your individual activity speaks volume, and yes if you care to, you can say the same for me, however, at least people understand what I say, unlike you.
And, actually, to be quite honest, I'm not selfish at all, and it's a pretty pathetic attempt to make me look that way.
If you find that belittling, you most certainly have an ego problem dude. Get over yourself.
This statement shows exactly my point about getting over yourself. Your too arrogant to even see past your own ego to learn anything new. So good day!
why god didn't want adam and eve to have fruit from tree of knowledge (path of understanding between) good and evil.
obviously, it let sin in. sheeesh
so knowledge is sin ? then ignorance is bliss ? ?
That makes no sense. I can have knowledge of a thousand ways to murder someone, but would never entertain the act. Perhaps, your god should have taught some very basic morals before offering that tree of knowledge. Yet, another mistake on his part.
@brotheryochanan thats illogical..to avoid sin , let us prohibit knowledge..what kind of logic is this?..if that was what god wanted..best thing to avoid sin would have been not creating humans at first place...
This is one of the simplest concepts in Scripture. If one does not know good from evil, one can not be judged. One is totally innocent and can not be held responsible for their actions.
It is a very great burden to know good from evil and have the choice of free will; to chose to do good or evil. So we can be judged on our actions; because we know.
as i recall, this was a test of faith for Man. they had everything they could want in the garden of eden, supposedly, yet they were greedy, disobedient and listened to someone (satan) spreading bad press about their heavenly father, and god just wasn't havin' any of that.
This just means that people became aware of opposites. The opposites they first became aware of? their own thoughts. Our thoughts are constantly in war with each other.
It's the tree of knowledge of right and wrong. If Adam and Eve had continued in the Garden, and not have eaten the fruit, than God would have remained their first and only love, and their provider. For them wanting to know what is right or what is wrong would have placed them as Gods.
The simple example is liken unto juveniles wanting to tell their parents what is right or wrong or knowing right and wrong as does their parents.
Tree of knowledge my butt…sounds like nothing more than a stupid apple tree. what a farce.
After God created everything, the bible says "and it was good".
So why did God allow this tree of knowledge of good and evil in
the garden of Eden? And being a loving, kind and all knowing God, why did he allow the serpent to be there to tempt them?
When we get through with this question, I have another 7,364 similar ones about the bible and it's "truth"
Because havng the knowledge of both good and evil will allow the children of God to be perfect while allowing the children of the Devil to die their own deaths.
Therefore it is good ....
it is a story-type matter.pls dont take it word by word.during olden times it used to create 'GOD CONCEPT' in the minds of ordinary people.these are (especially old testment) about to create the 'what is good and what is bad or what should one do or shouldnt do' concept in minds of people......surely it is written for that purpose.......and it is not to satisfy GOD...but to satisfy man's living....if you are going to take old testment word by word ...i dont think one GOD promote violence as saying in old testment.then whats the difference b/w god and satan?so take it all in that sense of understanding..
If for example, the legal and religious industries create situations that lead to people committing crimes or sins to survive or partially due to environmental factors, that are well known, ... and then those well educated, well fed and well holidayed knowledgeable souls, sentence these less educated, less able to survive mortals to prison or to pay fines that are beyond their incomes reach... Who then is the sinner? Who then is the evil one? Who is gods child and who is the devil? Which is the greater crime, to pay your childrens private school fees and overseas trips from the proceeds of defending crimes that could be prevented with good social policy or improved well being?
Or is society manipulated to create this disparity to maintain images of good and evil? To suit whom?
LOL Because that god is a greedy bastard, that's why!
But, this is one of the few pieces of the babble that sustains a cross-reference check with other religions, hinting on the duality as a cornerstone of this world.
because it was a part of a low-carb diet only reserved for God.
If they had not disobeyed how would we know that free will existed? Their disobedience was proof that the experiment was successful???????
Yeah thats why we have decided to disobey him further so the experiment can reach its ultimate success!!!!!!!!!!
Yea we'll show him.
Daddy daddy take the training wheels off, I Can Do This.
why god didnt wanted adam and eve to have fruit from tree of knowledge?
...May be God was out of food & that was his last piece!
It's a nice story. That and all the other countless "creation" stories told around the world.
Anybody who's dumb enough to listen to a talking serpent doesn't deserve to live.
I think in context of the story (not that adam and eve were actual living and breathing people, with 2 sons who married women not their mother and who didn't actually exist or were in fact never in the garden in the first place and thus did not carry the act of first sin, but I digress) God had every intention of Adam and Eve eating the fruit. If I don't want for say kids to play with knives I put them high up and out of sight, I don't make a big point about play with every thing else but this! I try to protect them from dangerous things and not leave them out to be tempted by. If you want someone to freely choose something the best way is to forbid it then leave it out in plain sight and kinda pretend to look away. If this tree were really dangerous for man and not to be eaten it would be wiser for a supposedly wise god to place it atop a high cliff, surrounded by poisonous thorns and maybe surrounded by a river of deadly piranha. The one I feel sorry for is the poor serpent, trying to stir up some mischief and gain allies, winds up doing gods work for him then punished for his efforts! Poor snake
Didn't he get his legs ripped off in a similar fashion to spiders and little boys? Maybe thats just what I imagine when I visualize the story in my mind
poor snake..may be peta would book god for animal cruelty ;-)
ROFL I think your on to something! I think I have their number here somewhere......
Good to share a laugh with you mate
It seems unwise to me to take anything with such seriousness that one cannot share a good laugh with another (chances are at least one party needs it).
same here..i regularly read your post and i am fan of yours..so pleasure is mine...
I have not been active here for some time as I have been perusing art for my online store, holidaying and more. It's good to come in for a break and have a good laugh, tho I probably should be promoting my store or adding new products or something... oh well.
I am actually about to go on another holiday soon, camping in Tun Bridge Wells. I just finished a camping holiday up in the Peak District that was totally awsome! I actually have some ideas for hubs from it that are in progress in and around everything else. They may not go live until things settle down tho and I can do more then pick photo's for em and have a play with keyword titles. With autumn fast approaching I expect things will really pick up online for me. I really do hope that that happens so that by next summer I have so much going online that the slump of folks going out into the real world instead of staying online doesn't hurt earnings
hey vacation experience is ideal material for hub..it is useful and since one writes from personal experience ..it is different too...but mind well dont eat fruits during vacation
Oh Buggar! I ate some fruit on holiday! Specifically an apple from a tree on the camp site, was not quite ripe and totally sour, just how I love em. Maybe that was the problem, God didn't want adam and eve to eat fruit that was not ripe and too sour for them
may be or as saying goes an apple a day keeps doctor away and only entity who knew about body,disease and cure was god himself!!!!!!!!!!
@kirstenblog then adam blames eve..no wonder we man have not changed a bit..all the best for ur holiday...enjoy...
no it has to be us rememer sharing in love makes the world go round
"why god didnt wanted adam and eve to have fruit from tree of knowledge"
I think the biggest problem nonbelievers have with believers is that believers actually try to answer questions like this.
If you profess to follow god without question then don't try and second guess his motives.
it makes perfect sense. Perhaps someday you will be able to understand it.
You are all clearly in a forum that is 'over your head' pun intended
thanks for wishing luck...and wishing you luck too..
If it is a contradiction of simple logic today, it will remain so tomorrow, too. And, stating emphatically that it makes perfect sense without explaining your position is not an argument.
Hey Brother, it's obvious to many that you are already "in over your head", which is why a lot of people reach out to help you understand. But, then again, you enjoy choosing ignorance over learning.
I guess that's good to know, therefore people can realize what they are up against trying to talk to you via any sort of sense.
Would it be better if we attempted to use your irrational method of thinking, so as to make you realize how irrational you actually are?
Then again, never mind, you'll dismiss my statements anyway, because they are too rationalized for your way of thinking.
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace".
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is at war against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
'in over your head'
Thank you for presenting a strawman fallacy rather than arguing your illogical claim.
'IN OVER YOUR HEAD'
There is no debate. No intention to debate. I do not argue because you can never grasp what you do not understand. 'IN over YOUR head' describes perfectly where you and others like you are at.
I'm sorry, but what you get from me from now on is what you get until i detect a change of heart in you.
My illogical claim is fine with me and other christians, that you disapprove does not effect me, in fact when i answer a question I am not talking to you although you claim to be included, you and others like you are not included. This is a free to enter forum but my back is turned toward your argumentative ways.
There is no debate is right! Just a bunch of zealous "believers" trying to ram scripture!
When someone objects to this pointless rubbish they get all snooty and childish.
hahahaha we are talking amongst ourselves, NOT to the loud voice that comes into the room. We are not ramming anything, but you are trying to ram your false doctrine of God the psychopath sky fairy, sorry for the snoot but its just to cover up the laughter.
Honestly, do you really expect us to believe you. Do we really expect you to believe us. This is a pointless game you persist in due mainly to your... well lets just say, psychologist heal yourself.
Luckily it is winter, otherwise my onion soup may have become yet another cause of a forest fire.
Moronic comments lacking in truth are a hallmark of religionists.
your tiny needy god having to be worshiped should provide a clue to a sane mind! (see my hub on the arrogancy of god)
Don't be too concerned, I feel sure there are thousands of other English words you are not familiar with.
Ya should ortta listen to Willie Wavadagga like I quoted!
Your such a good person.
YEAH AS I SAID IT B4...EYES CLOSED - MIND SHUT - BRAIN DEAD...YOU ARE NOT EVEN CONSCIOUS!
Darn and when i was conscious i had to read this dribble, here's a bucket!
yknow its amazing, you all look for someone who defends their faith and lives by what they say and then when you find that person, you just insult him with harsher intent. LOL.
I think more to the point is you are not conscious.
children of wrath
you are way in OVER your HEAD
leave now so we can stop laughing and get back to work or is it your intention to kill us with laughter? At least we have historical documents to back us up, what do you have, silly one liners of ASSumption.
my side hurts now...
Babble is not a historical document Grandpa...Please choose ur source wisely. I knw you have wasted ur whole life on it, in a blind world & I knw it scares you when someone asks you to open your eyes...because your eyes wont be able to take the light of truth!...coz Truth hurts!
What you term as an 'insult' should be taken as blessing coz they are only teaching you to use your eyes & guiding you to see reality.
Remember...The Devil has a new name...Its called faith...Blind faith!
In essence, what you're saying is that you're not here to debate, you're here to preach your version of the gospel, you're right and everyone else is wrong. End of story.
I have not received anything from you other than illogical claims. This has nothing to do with my heart and everything to do with your beliefs.
I suspected as much. But, what you may or may not understand or acknowledge is the fact that many others are reading these forums, not just you. In other words, sometimes the responses here are not for your benefit.
Because Adam and Eve would realize that they were butt -naked and innocence would be replaced by lust and incest. :-)
.oO ( types a thought...
wow is right. Seems to have hit the nail dead center. How fascinating when you present the Ism with a true logical critique of elements they actually do not engage completely [but claim to know so much about --what is true and what is not-- merely subsidizing safety, stature and assumed fluidity of themselves] Reaching in to the bowl of murky mire, an impure ideology is what you pull out. It is slippery, squeals a lot, reeks of pain and criticism, yet has no power or freedom of its own. Even its desire to exist is fed by something it does not comprehend...
We were as animals, trusting to god was not an issue, for as the beasts do not strive to understand. Knowledge separated us from the Gods, or Elohim, as does eternal life (2nd of the trees) Remaoval from it was to slow us down from being as gods.
What the "frick" is a "tree of knowledge?"
Ya got to think these questions out before ya post 'em....and for goodness sakes, for those of us who are abjectly ignorant, try to use the potential of teaching to make us aware of the "subject" be defining it for us so that we may respond thoughtfully and with what little meaning we can glean from it.
Now, What the frick is a "tree of knowledge?"
I might like to try a response.
You think God is just a concept. Then try to conceptualize the tree of knowledge. I'll give you a hint, the tree is not a tree.
And the god is just a pi**ant psychopath. Enjoy!
...and you can't be serious? Are ya? Golly gee whiz!!!
...and this "god thing" not a concept?" WEll golly gee whiz"
I love input! INPUT!INPUT! Pls provide me just one (1) monotheistic scripture that defines this "god thing" in in any other manner than in the form of "concept."
Double Dare ya! :-)
I'll throw in Tasmania to sweeten the deal!
Quark, seems even brotheryochanan is way beyond mono or duo or even trio theistic scripture now. Perhaps, just perhaps, you conscious-ites should do a bit of catching up, else just to a bit --horse or comedy, really doesn't matter, so long as you're at the very least, entertaining. Else, your won't get to play the part you soooooo long to play.
Boy, you guys tag team really well, you remind me of a piranha pool surging forward if you sniff the slightest hint of blood.
Pathetic, al you do is make believers stronger in their faith, by showing them your alternative.
An unappealing concept that life is ALL their is, and then oblivion, a life where there is no more significance attached to the human condition than to an earthworm.... and then you choose to spend your meagre little existences trying to goad believers into fruitless discussions that you only enter in order to hijack the thread and turn it into nonsense acerbity and juvenile insults....
I realise that belief is something that you cannot fathom, but really, practise the 'free thinking' that you aspire to and let believers have their discussions without all this inanity.
Go chase folk in the political forums or in the atheist forums (are there any?) and get a life, it's the only one you think you have, why waste it?
You should try this life now aqua. It's sensational!
Been there done that, BORING also stupid lol. This is like saying i should stop driving my tesla roadster 2.5 ( http://www.teslamotors.com/ ) and drive a volkswagen LOL. Surely you jest, hahaha.. oh i shall die of laughter, thank you LORD God almighty. Amen brother, amen. Somebody hand me a kleenex please.
That is not going to happen as long as this system seems to be working.
They do not want normal converstaion between believers to ocur. BECAUSE .... or should I say ,,,However
If it wern't for defending the faith debates, most of the conversation in this forum would turn into a mutual apreciation club and/or (BAA) Bash the Atheist Association.
Can we discuss issues of any signifigance that does not do that? Who is actually drawing the line in the sand?
It was a test, it was only a test, if there was an actual emergency, tune to your local serpent.
I agree, a test. We have to consider the possibility that God was simply curious about what would happen. Its not that hard to imagine a God that amuses himself. Perhaps it was just a great cosmic joke. If we question the workings of God,(and this has been done in the past)“Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, why hast Thou made me thus?” we ignore the fact that God gives us choice, wheather we believe it or not. So although Adam and Eve were given the choice, God didn't wish the sins of the world to fall on them. The key word is choice.
Wonder why knowledge was forbidden for them. All religions support the seeking of knowledge. Perhaps Adam and Eve were supposed to gain knowledge via several lifespans of experience and not just "buy" it off a bite!
... there are those forum hubbers whom you must just ignore because they have a history of never offering anything credible or of value. My last responder falls into that category and has, long ago earned a spot on my list of "The Incredibles." Never to be considered. No offense intended just using my constitutional right for "free speech." lol...:-)
Each day that I live, I realize, more and more that I am a "misfit."
I am hearing that lol
There are few, if any, people who understand any part of the philosophies formulated by me which, right or wrong,
you don't even know if you are right or wrong.. nice philosophy again Got no God inspired book to read
answer, to my great disappointment, the reason ..
The possiblity of immortality, at this stage of their evolution does not exist.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
My immortality question is answered. I am very disappointed yours is not but then again you could be wrong..
Actually quark, u's come after q's not w's, i am done with you, your philosophies and your possible wrongness.
Have a nice day.
psss get a bible This reply is serious just so you know and you don't have to guess cuz you might be wrong or right.
No offense intended just using my constitutional right for "free speech." lol...:-)
...We come from the land of the ice and snow
from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow
How soft your fields, so green
can whisper tales of gore, of how we calmed the tides of war
We are your overlords...
...so now you better stop and rebuild all your ruins
for peace and trust can win the day despite of all you're losin'...
I am eventually coming to the conclusion that religion really is a mental illness.
The big booming ego voice thingy, the certainty of getting all the cookies in the end, the wishing to die to get to the 'glory' and wishing us all dead with them at the same time. The desire to kill anyone else talking the same god stuff that does not fit their version of god stuff.
Has anyone studied the religious brain to see what chunk is missing from the reason side and what bit is extra on the ego side ?
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