Is it possible for someone to have faith that God exist, but does not believe the words in the bible is true? If your answer is yes, explain how?
There are many other religions who believe in God. They do not necessarily believe in the bible but they do believe in God.
Thanks for replying Dave, I agree with you, but look forward to anyone explaining how is that possible. The bible is inspired by God through the men who wrote it.
when you say "inspired by God", do you expect the bible to be free or errors?
yes the bible is free of errors. God is perfect, so therfore it's impossible for him to make any errors. He used men to write the bible, all scriptures were inspired by God.
the people in the bible believed in a flat earth - there are plenty of scriptures that say the earth is fixed and unable to be moved. In the New Testament it says the devil took Jesus to the highest mountain on earth to view all the kingdoms of the world - how could one see all the kingdoms of the world if the earth is a sphere?
Surely a God that knows everything would have passed that fact on?
The earth is a sphere, and it is not flat. The earth has no ends or length to it.
your bible talks about a flat earth that can't move
Isaiah 40:22 - [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
It says the 'circle of the earth' - it says the earth is round.
thats what I was going to say, . Thank you.
So actually the bible explains that the earth is round way before man figured it out.
People in Columbus' day thought it was flat.
clap clap clap - well twisted !!!
A circle has two dimensions not three.
The bible also talks about the hydrolic cycle, which scientists only figured out, oh I don't know a few hundred years ago.
Do you truly believe that the earth is two dimensional?
Isaiah is a Book of The Prophets. It was written in Hebrew/Aramaic and Circle meant Circumference. It referred to the region that completely surrounds the Earth. It was not talking about the shape of the earth, but does indicate that it goes around the earth.
a circle is flat, not a sphere. And you ignored other bible verses that support a flat an unmovable earth.
What verses are those? please supply book, chapter, verses.
The word translated as circle, in Hebrew is really circumference, which is a curved geometric figure.
Many things that are circular are three dimensional not two.
Where did you learn geometry?
Regardless, most people were led to believe the world was flat for 1500 years . Science proved otherwise
Circle of the earth here refers to Zero from which the whole universe is created. the Creation is the circle.The Earth, Heaven and other planets live in the circle, the curtain of heaven means the silky, smooth feeling inside who sees the glory of God.The sky is the tent and abode for God to live in. God remains aloof, different though the whole universe with billions and billions of stars is made by him, through his own material,the energy.The Jain, Hindu, Budhdhist Religions explain the same truths in their scriptures. It is how you interpret, understand and conceptualise them that gives significance and glory to your thoughts and being. Amen
your opinion of flat earth comes from a description that reads ".. from the four corners of the earth... a circle has no four corners. The 4 corners is metaphoric language representing north, south, east and west, these are your four corners... and it is an inference that assumes flatness.
unmoveable does not mean stationary in space, it means cannot be moved as in its course altered. Poetic language is often taken literally when it is not supposed to be.
You are correct. It stands for the four directions, and does not mean a flat earth that doesn't move.
In Isaiah it says
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:
In Hebrew, the word translated as circle means circumference.
But people take their shallow, surface knowledge and try to prove their points.
the devil taking jesus to the highest mountain is a vision. Jesus never left the desert. The devil is a small d and is not the embodiment of Satan. The word is demonian, demon, devil is the catholic substitution word and our click word. When we read devil we think, oh satan. okay... lalala.. but never do we notice the lack of capitalization. The bible knows how to use capitals but never does on this word. Jesus was tempted in every way as we are i never recall the devil taking me anywhere.
So the world is still round, the vision is the vision or imagination in Jesus' head. This would have to be a third person account, of course. There is no coincidence it is the same approach of the serpent in the garden. You think satan would have learned lol.
but that's still a flawed concept that going to the top of the mountain allows you to see all the kingdoms of the world - vision or not
no its not. They came sequentially. babylon, rome, Damascus, Tyre, laodecia, persia, and china was goin on. All of these jesus knew about. Not hard to imagine at all. One after the other, powf, bam, zip, zoom, zing... jesus could have all that if only... a high place is representative of pride. Pride would display all the kingdoms and their wealth and jesus would deal with 'the pride of life'.
Pretty lame test for a master of deception... "all that you already own will i give to you".. satan doesn't even own it.. the father does. lol.
sorry baileybear, not flawed at all.
You have a lot to learn. The bible has been altered many times. Books were taken from the bible and books added to the bible.
Many mistransliterations have occurred
We are tested in the Word.
well the bible in away is a guide book , but it is so old and went threw so many adjustments that it make it hard to belive in it, but the real God is the one that inside you, just look out the window, look at the sun, the perfect new born baby, the perfectly build human body, the mircles we have around us every day, its is not possible to belive any any other way. so bible or not , God is every thing, in every one and that is our soul.
just belive and be gratefull.
and for those that don't have the 'perfect' new baby (but one that has deformities like their brain didn't develop)?
be careful or you will have to buy a membership to the beelzebub club.
Once more in case you missed it.
We are not living in the Garden anymore.
Things are not perfect
You will never see perfection here on earth.
and how did this answer the question. We know that other gods are just false gods dreamed up in the imaginations of humankind and that they do not exist. We know God exists, wrote the bible and that the end of that.
A person who believes in the God of the bible will have to and must believe in the bible.
the bible has no contradictions btw. lol just thought i would mention that FACT.
I am 100% certain God exists. I also believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God which has been corrupted by man to some degree. I have yet to encounter anything man has not denigrated in some way.
h.a.borcich, I agree, we are living in the last days, and there is more evil than ever before. God is great in the midst of it all.
what exactly do you mean when you say the bible is corrupted by man?
I believe God inspired men to write the Bible.
The New Testament proclaims that God sent Jesus to save us because man could not keep the law and be reconciled to Himself. For that to be true, the Old Testament had to be written by those same men.
The New Testament proclaims the good news of Jesus Christ. I believe that the New Testament writers had the help of the Holy Spirit to keep His message untainted for us.
I believe God is the same yesterday, today and always.
Again, this is what I believe and I am not saying anyone or everyone else needs to agree with me.
Yes. It's part of the "new" religion in modern times to be anti-Christian yet believe in the all powerful nature or the natural environment around you. Of course, this would include the denial of all scriptural text.
I have no problem with this mindset, however this system of belief leaves no room for personal responsibility and accountability for one's own actions. Who are you going to be accountable to - nature. If so then you better hope that nature doesn't "crap" you out of an elephants rear end. Again, no real danger in this thinking but it is the easiest system of belief for one who's not willing to seriously search one's own heart for answers and hasn't the faith that they may actually find answers.
Hi goldenpath, thank you for participating in this discussion. It seems to me that some people who are not christians, but do believe that God is real fear the truth in the bible.
well given that your body is made out of biological chemicals that get broken down, re-built, rearrranged etc, what makes you think that at one time chemicals making up your body weren't part of an elephant's rear end, or elephant's poo?
Bailey, It is written in Genesis Ch. 2:7 . God formed man of the dust of the ground. That's real proof for me not to think my body is any part of a elephant. You can read the scripture for yourself.
so you're going to ignore all the science that has extracted DNA, analysed the composition of the human body? You don't believe the scientific evidence that you were conceived from an ova and sperm containing DNA from your parents? You don't believe that food is made of chemicals that your body incorporates into its structure? You don't believe in the carbon cycle, the nitrogen cycle etc? Or are you completely ignorant of these things?
Do you ever go to the doctor by any chance?
Ever had surgery?
No, I am not ignoring any of that, and I am not ignorant of of those things. I realize if it was not for God, none us would be born from an ova and sperm. God provided us food, and all things come from God. It seems to me that you don't believe God exist. There is no need for me to waste my time trying to help you. I did not start this thread for arguments. Hopefully you will calm down. I have noticed that you are way of the topic of this thread. Take care.
Bailey God created everything! Energy has to start from something... it can not be created or destroyed! If God's energy did not create the Earth then whre did it come from if energy cannot make itself? I love science and it was my major in college! But I believe God and science go hand in hand! God created all and gave humans the brain power to understand it. However, we twist some things and say our creator had nothing to do with it! God exists if people believe or not!
Sure we all came from our parents DNA... that's how God made us... to be fruitful and multipy! But the first two humans were made by God in his likeness! From then after the sin in the garden all offspring were encoded with DNA from their parents! Science and God go hand in hand. You don't have to believe in one and not the other!
All energy comes from the sun in the food chain! Then it is obsorbed through photosenthysis into the plants, trees and all greens... then herbivores eat the plants and consume that energy... then the carnivores eat the herbivores and get the same energy... energy is always being tranferred it is never created or destroyed! But who made the sun? God did! God's energy created the sun... thus the beginning of all energy!
Hi libby, thanks for sharing that so beautifully. Praise God!
solar power doesn't require a supernatural being to have it operate
Finally a voice of reason! I agree
Where do you get your info?
I believe in God but not the Christian doctrine.
I converted and I am Jewish. I believe in the teachings and life of Yahshua and I am not of a new religion. I do not believe in the New Testament translation. It is full of error and untruths
My reasons; Because the Bible is un-proven. Jesus wrote nothing, it is 50-150 years after the fact that anything is writen, and there are many contradictions between Old and New Testimates, and many holes not filled. Gospels write of different aspects of Jesus, they counter, contradict, and also up-hold each other. Most of the first 6 books are profacy, and apply to Isreal only. Many questions, many!
So, yes your question is possible, beliefe in God, but not in the bible is possible.
why dont u start a thread about a certain contradiction and see if it gets answered. There are no contradictions, you people keep saying that but one by one they get shot down in flames of flaming fire. Its so much fun i never want that to stop.
All of the epistles (written by jesus disciples were written before 100ad.)
The gospels do not contradict they add and build upon each other. They are written to different audiences by people in different occupations. The first 5 books are the laws of moses and not prophetic. The OT is called the 'law and the prophets' because the prophets are the other books. LOL
so see, belief in the bible is possible. lol.
You could have tried to google your mistakes.
Don't worry many many people think they know more about christianity than christians do, but they don't and often they sound sillier than you just did.
Have a great day!
You say Jesus wrote nothing...I beg to differ, He wrote through His speech. Man merely recorded what was spoken.
I believe in the Creator-God Allah YHWH but I for one believe that Bible in its present form does not represent Truth Revealed; it is a translation and has lost the truthful meaning of the original, hence a lot of contradictions in it. Once it had the light of the Truth; but now little light is left in it. It does not provide the wisdom/reason of its teachings in it hence it is not suited to the present era.
Quran has revived the teachings Revealed and now Bible has academic value only; no real value.
No the Qu'ran has no real value because it was written by a self proclaimed prophet how was visited by an angel (as he states) with no witnesses! Please do not say the bible has no real value... because I'm sure it doesn't feel good when someone tells you the quran has no real value! You should take that into consideration when you speak such things! I could go on and on about why I believe the qu'ran has no value... but I will not! You are basically putting down our religion! To do this, you must understand that people will put down yours to defend theirs!
One does not have to agree with someone elses religion but one should respect the other person enough to NOT put down their Jesus and their beliefs!
If you are indeed a peaceful man as you state then prove it! Stop stirring up strife with your comments about Jesus and the Bible!
The New Testament Gospels is written by personal eyewitnesses of the account of Jesus' earthly ministry.
The accounts were originally handed down orally as this was the traditional method, but as time passed, and the eyewitnesses were threatened by death by those who opposed Jesus' teachings it was necessary for these accounts to be written down so that those who were not personal eyewitnesses can know the truth and not be fooled by another "so called" gospel or revelation of God.
These eyewitnesses clearly state "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son"
In other words, after Jesus there are no other true revelations of whom God is, Jesus is the perfect and exact revelation of God.
"And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high."
A personal eyewitness to Jesus' words also wrote a conversation Jesus had with his followers referring to what would happen and Jesus' words comforted the hearers because of His promise to send another comforter.
This conversation is found in the book of John (a personal eyewitness of Jesus life, death and resurrection)
John 14:16-31 After Jesus completed his earthly ministry, He promised to send "allos parakletos" (another Comforter)
Allos = another of the same substance
Parakletos = comforter, Comforter, helper, advocate: "parakletos"
The word means, "lit., called to one’s side, i.e., to one’s aid, is primarily a verbal adjective, and suggests the capability or adaptability for giving aid. It was used in a court of justice to denote a legal assistant, counsel for the defence, an advocate; then, generally, one who pleads another’s cause, an intercessor, advocate" (Comforter, W. E. Vine)
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will (AI)disclose Myself to him."
Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me. "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you.
"But the (Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful."
You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
"Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.
"I will not speak much more with you, for (the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; but so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as (BD)the Father commanded Me Get up, (BE)let us go from here.
This "allos parakletos" is the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised his disciples would be sent in order to testify of Him and of the truth.
The Holy Spirit would be sent to enable believers to walk in the truth revealed to us in Jesus Christ.
Furthermore, may I just remind us all that many scientist (believers and non-believers from the academia world) have studied the Bible and have concluded that the Bible has on many occassions been found to be archaelogically, scientifically and historically correct.
However, even though these findings are uplifting, I do not base my faith on what scientists claim or disclaim.
Personally I prefer to listen and believe a personal eyewitness than to a person speculating on what might have happened throughout the years to the Scriptures.
This is my belief, I do not force it on anyone, I share my belief and I defend my right to believe as I so choose to believe.
As I also defend the rights of others to believe as they so choose fit to believe.
No one's viewpoint or worldview or faith system should be forced upon others, it can be shared and left for others to accept or not accept. This is after all how a civilized people should behave.
I have stated my belief, my viewpoint, my worldview. Kindly accept my right to believe as I do as I respect your choice to believe or not.
Blessings to you all.
lcg4jc, You are absolutely right! Blessings to you also.
I like the name Woman of Courage. The question you have posed is very significant. God is the most significant, glorious being in the world. In fact , He is the Only one.
It is the belief and belief systems about everything make us and set up our life and world accordingly. What you believe and think, you see the world in the same fashion. Everything happens to your world which confirms your thoughts, beliefs, principles,opinions,ideas, prejudices.That is your truth and your world. Similarly, the world of the others are governed by the thoughts and beliefs thet possess and govern. One viewpoint is true for you but may be untrue for others.What is elixir for one may be poison for others.
We see and learn about God from everything. The lay outs of nature like plants, trees, birds, rivers, ocean, air,breath , everything is pointing its fingers towards God. God in its compassion, Karuna created the magnificent, glorified world so that we look towards the creator,the architect, theshepherd, the One Almighty God.
The branch of the tree is sustained by the nourishment by the fact that it belongs to the tree.Once the branch is cut off, it whithers away as the vine and nourishment of the tree is not given to the fallen off branch and it dries. The rivers of the world rush and run towards sea and amalgamate with the Sea losing its identity. The waves of the sea are the rumblings on the surface. Inside, deep down the fathomless waters there is peace and tranquility. Abide in Tree (God), the branch (human being)gets nourishment and lives, similarly, God says, come unto me and surrender. like the rivers merge and surrender to the sea. The waves are the freuency of thoughts frantically passing by and disappearing, deep down the Ocean, the body mind and soul, peace and tranquility abide.Perfection and serenity is our nature, quality. Get into it by habit,thought and belief. Be peaceful, become tranquility personified. in peace abides all strength and power. All Knowledge is in one thought, one word, one perception, I am God, Almighty, All-powerful,omniscient and omnipresent. God is Ram, God is Allah, God is Jesus Christ, God is Mahavira, God is Budhdha, the Enlightened One
The words in the New Testament aren't true. And I believe in God.
The words in the New Testament are true and it applies to everyone.
Yahshua called the word of God wheat, and the false word, tares. He also referred to those of God and not of God, as wheat and tares
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them
In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, where Paul tells Timothy, “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work"
the New Testament hadn't been written and translated from one language to the next over and over.
i dont see where you get false word = tares.
we are talking about people.. believers and non believers.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of wickedness;
Sorry, but that isn't true. I am sorry you have been fooled and don't have the eyes to see.
I believe in the Creator-God Allah YHWH but I for one believe that Bible in its present form does not represent Truth Revealed; it is a translation and has lost the truthful meaning of the original, hence a lot of contradictions in it. Once it had the light of the Truth; but now little light is left in it. It does not provide the wisdom/reason of its teachings in it hence it is not suited to the present era.
Quran has revived the teachings Revealed and now Bible has academic value only; no real value.
Greetings my new friend .Yes the bible states that even the devil trembles at the word of God, so that is the ability to know there is a God.Also many fall into the category of the five foolish virgins, who have no oil in their lamps. Many will cry Lord,Lord but the Lord will cry I knew you not. . I pray as we look at this and other questions about the Lord we will become a people that studies his word and cry's out to know truth not as we see it ,,but as the bible declares it. May all your dreams come true, may every fear be wiped away. may kindness over take you ,may your days be filled with purpose and love ,joy and a sound mind.in Jesus name. May we learn line upon line, precept upon precept. may we be armed in the mind of Christ. I hope this day brings good news ,friends and lots of love for all . Sharon E DIx
It certainly is true....it doesn't take the Bible to know that God exists, it takes the Bible to know that Jesus is the Son of God.
Most people will concede that someone created the universe and the things in them because these things are "great". But few will take the Bible as the Word of God.
The sad fact is that it is entirely possible for someone to believe in God, but rejects the word of God. It is because they might be worshipping a "different" God and their religion or faith does not include believing in the bible. On the other hand, some people evade from accountability-someone mentioned this here and I do tend to agree.
Not only that's possible, but it's very true! What do you mean, explain? Take a look around, it's mostly like that. Why? People do not understand the Bible, they take everything personally or literally...I love reading the Bible. I finally understood some things only after years of reading them again and again, not to say, after bitter experiences, the consequences of which I felt and understood through these readings. I don't need to add that I still do not understand many things, but that doesn't matter. What matters is, that I understand the most important things and those revealed to me by mercy of God.
Dearest Woman of Courage,
Thank you for asking a sincere question.
I believe that our faith in the Biblical God has the perfect way of understanding His person, character, attributes through His revelation of Self recorded for mankind in the Bible.
However, I do not confine our God to the Bible, rather I confine the Bible to our God.
I believe in God and Yahshua. I do not believe in the English bible
Faith. That's the explanation. Having faith.
Faith and the belief in a higher power, does not have anything to do with believing in the bible. They are two separate issues, and should in my opinion, be treated as such. This God and bible connection, is like saying there cannot be a Christmas celebration without believing in the Night Before Christmas Story, and Jesus. Well......., we can and we do. One essentially has nothing to do with the other.
Of course the possibility exists. The obvious arguement is that a god can exist that didn't speak those words. Belief in god and dis-belief in the bible. The bigger question is how can people claim that the bible is the word of god that must be obeyed and then, turn around and ignore the words they disagree with? Easy answer is that a devout belief in god gives one the right to ignore god's word for god's benefit. THis line of reasoning worked on the kindergarden play ground and I wish alot of people would just grow up instead of trying to be born again.
I believe yes. This is how I approach faith myself. I believe the Bible is a compilation of stories put forth to outline a belief system. I'm not going to believe Aesop and his fables anymore than I will believe the writers of the Bible. I think it's oral tradition finally written down. I believe in the basis of religion, the idea of a moral code and that there may be a power greater than I responsible. There is nothing wrong with this belief, I don't force it upon anyone else. What I feel is my right to feel. No one here has the right say anyone else is wrong for believing or not believing. I have yet to see undeniable proof one way or another. Until then, I will believe what I choose and I think that sticking to whatever your beliefs are is what really matters.
Back to the original question.....
That is kind of like asking an illiterate mum how she can love her new born babe without having read any book on love. To ask how is that possible is certain to evoke a whole host of different emotions that will not be akin to the love she feels for her new born babe.
In addition, the faith inherent in this mum that her new born babe will eventually learn how to walk and talk will not come from a book that may have all the developmental stages of a growing child outlined because she is illiterate, instead it is a natural and arising instinct that comes from a source that can only found within her.
Will she call it God? Perhaps? Perhaps not?
Anyone who creates a belief in a god, without using the form of some religious book, has no understanding of their own life.
A prime example: early primates prayed to gods for supplies of food, when they lacked the understanding that food was already in ample supply. Early primates also praised to a god because they lived, yet never realized that their life was not granted by a god, but by being born into the world.
It's this low level of conscious understanding that drives a belief in a god.
In today's world, religion is the dominate so called message of a god or a god's will. Thus, if you have a belief in a god and don't listen to the message of the religious books, which are supposedly a god's words or a god's will, then obvious you don't believe in the god that that religion claims to exist.
If a person has no religious ties, but believes in a god, it shows their ignorance level.
It sounds as if you knew some of those people that lived so long ago. Why do you act as if you know what they were thinking?
Are you reading minds again???
That might be plausible if the first man didn't name the animals. Bible doesn't believe in evolution. Man; if evolved, evolved from Adam, not so primitive as you might like to believe. True the heathen nations were all worshiping something, mostly nature until the real God came along and wrote this lovely book.
good luck with that.
You're right, every culture has had something that it prayed to for all things it needed. Praying for replaced working for. Luckily each culture has had people that retained the ability to utilize their brain and that has resulted in every advancement mankind has ever endured. Tell me this, who has fought every advance towards the truth science has ever uncovered? The Christian church is who. People have died stating that the earth was flat. People continue to die based upon beliefs that differ from the mainstream christians, jews, muslims, ect. Knowledge has always been, and will always remain, the biggest enemy of organized religion. Aperson that can still think for themselves will always appear to be under the contro;l of the devil to those who long ago forsake, RATIONAL THOUGHT.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but it sounds to me that what is being described here is evangelical humanism. This is a religion that, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. This religion denies the veracity of Scripture, yet espouses a "higher being." While there are many religions in the world, I believe this one to be the most dangerous to humankind. This religion propagates a what's in it for me, feel good gospel, but denies any presonal or corporate accountability and responsibility.
Hi David, wow, your message is quite interesting, and I have observed this also. Thanks for sharing.
What religion are you talking about?
christ never said we are to be out for ourselves. Pray for each other, give without thought for return, etc... I don't follow what you are saying David
If you are speaking of "The Christan Religion" I agree
It's always amazing how so much time and energy is spent trying to convince others that something doesn't exist, or visa versa.
God has always warned of this deception, how easily we get entangled away from the truth. My question is, if God or something like it is not the source, then what is?
For example: A car without a battery to start it is just a hunk of metal. A TV without a power source is just a bunch of plastic and tubes. A computer without a source of electrical power is just a plastic casing which becomes useless.
So what is the source that brings life to this piece of flesh, if not God? Are we just a continuation of the Big Bang Theory? I think not...
rb66, exactly! I am in full agreement. God is our source, our true creator, and all the bible teachings is in full connection with him. There is only one true God, and his name is Jehovah. AMEN!
God exists. Waters and seas of God (almighty) flow abundantly full of joyful sentiments, full of exlixir of life. Drink it. passionately with one attention. that is meditation. that is yoga. That is thought .The body and thought are meant to serve and abide in God, the elixir of life. Amen
I absolutely believe there are people who believe in God -- or a God of their understanding -- whose belief is spiritual but not religious. Buddhist monks are highly spiritual, but do not believe in the Bible. Jews can be highly religious but not believe in the New Testament.
The belief in a power greater than oneself is not "evangelical humanism." It is not a "religion" and certainly does not propagate a "what's in it for me, feel good gospel" while "denying any personal or corporate accountability and responsibility."
Perhaps some of the evangelical preachers are guilty of this (if that is what was meant by "corporate" responsibility).
There are millions of people around the globe who are pursuing a path of spiritual growth but one-on-one with God and not through a church or organized religion.
the concept of god is a construction of the human mind, IMO
Now, if you reverse that isn't the human mind a construction of God?
how do you explain birth defects/brain damage etc? Will you use your "sin"/devil argument?
Birth defects ? Who is to blame?
Lets just for a moment ... imagine that we categorize all the things that we do that we know are not good for us to do. Science and common sense tells us that these things are bad for us. Then we have sex, make babies while we are drunk or on LSD, and maybe during pregnancy get drunk, smoke cigarettes, pot, and overdose of pork chops.
And nobody knows where deformed babies come from.????
Ain't Gods fault.
Our grandfather might have done something to shuffle his genetics in his off spring. His son did some more stuff,
The only reason that I did not contribute to is because I did all that stuff after the children were born.
Are you really saying that birth defects are because grandfathers did LSD and mothers ate too many pork chops?
I can only assume the word has not gotten out yet, but I personally know SEVERAL hubbers who will take issue with that from their own experience.
What about the lepers in the Bible? Did their mothers smoke pot or cigarettes?
I'm sorry, but your post is not only ignorant, but it's mean.
Sorry It sounded that way. But if people believe in evolution in any regard at all, they would have to concur that everything is relative.
Everything that we do effects the offspring that we have afterwards to some degree.
We can evolve upwards or decline
Can we blame God cause his design... some 200 generations later isn't what it once was?
I agree Jerami! There are many factors that can determine an offsprings chances of being deformed or whatever! It isn't God's fault if someone drinks a little too much alcohol, then her daughter does coke... and the daddy smoked pot for just long enough to cause damage to his sperm... all this could add to a bad cocktail of genes! Or it could be simply a deformed egg or sperm to start with. In most cases these will end in miscarriages.. but sometimes, rarely, they survive! It's not God's fault! It's nature! Just as there are some animals born with defects... it's nature!
Have been having some trouble with computer and working a lot lately. Haven't been intentionally ignoring any posts
I do believe that everything is relative to the human condition.
In one simple example .. We often become allergic to those foods that we consume the most of; Italians often develop an allergic reaction to pastas, Chinese to fish etc.
Many illnesses are hereditary. And it takes time and effect to establish that condition.
God didn't do it, as many would have us to believe
a lot of people with disabled children did all those things you state, even bible-believing christians. Overdose in pork chops? Yes, it is genetic mutations, as you partially concede.
If god is everywhere and knows the future, it's a pretty shoddy design - knees that give out easily, spinal cords that don't regenerate, eyes that need correction lenses, very sensitive to the toxic heavy metals that god put in the environment, don't you think?
correction to above "didn't do those things" is what I meant
I don't think it's always that someone did something to cause a child to be deformed or whatever. I think that happens sometimes... but there are times when it's just nature! Look at animals... they have offsprings that are deformed sometimes! It's just a part of nature!
And a part of that nature is as we age our bodies give out! We begin not seeing as well as we used to... we start thinking slower. Our bodies are designed to give out eventually! It's actually quite amazing. If nobody ever died the world would be over-populated! A part of life is death!
I think the design is amazing!
the Bible says That it is appointed to every man to face death but after death is Eternal Life. We have a choice as to where we live our Eternal Life
Have you ever seen a dead man with a hard-on?
No Paarsurrey. There is NO sex in heaven unless you twist the scripture because you want it there! There is NO sex and NO marriages in heaven! Sex is meant to reproduce! This is a fleshly desire!
Only the False Apostle Paul said that, and not Yahshua nor the True Apostles.
Just using one simple observation. Man dies, than if He is judged unworthy, he dies again..so already you can see Paul lied
Because, remember, death and hell (grave) are done away with in the end (no eternal fire, just death)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death
We cannot have a perfect world outside of the Garden people.. Stop asking for it!
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
will you now ask me where thorns and thistles came from? Just like at the white throne judgment, we have to take our lumps. Do you suspect that if any of Gods people climbed the tent in the wilderness and jumped into the pillar of fire he would not die? At what state does the love of god have to reach before people turn into atoms nanoseconds before being struck by a transport truck to reassemble after the truck is gone by and be unhurt? Yet how many people live when odds are they should have died? This is how God works. Not with signs and wonders. This is why some are hungry and some get to go to disneyland.
There are many things that are beyond our understanding, I can add to defects...natural disasters in which good people die in. Having said that is it possible that these things we can't explain is what challenges man's mind to search for answers? Invent, strive for knowledge, create, as cruel as it seems, do these things we question have a bigger purpose?
science offers explanations for birth defects and natural disasters backed up with concrete evidence
You might find it interesting that Einstein said "Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed"
You can read how the father of science Galileo, and others believed in God at http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic … faith.html
Even science yields to a higher source when it cannot explain things.
I've read that Einstein was agnostic. Science is not a religion. Many scientists believe in God. I consider myself agnostic atheist. I don't believe in the god of the bible, but of course no-one can prove that a god of some sort doesn't exist (or does exist either).
Baileybear, if you don't believe in the God of the bible anymore, what God do you believe in now?
If you please don't mind; I would like to know concept of God of Baileybear and also your concept of God Woman Of Courage. My concept of God is derived from Quran.
I don't believe in any god - I'm not interested in being part of any organised religion. I used to believe in the god of the bible
Did you allow people to change your belief in the God of the bible? I can relate to pain and many disappointments, but that is no excuse to reject God. I realize that God did not do any wrong to me. We can't blame God for other people mistakes.
"Agnostic atheist" is an oxymoron
You know WOC, I have seen first hand two family members who were atheists or agnostic or any other form of modified beliefs, and in their final hours of mortality they accepted God. One was 72 years old, he was a stout atheist, but in those final hours something changed and it was not fear. It's just like the people who were so certain the earth was flat, until they discovered the truth.
Wow, that's wonderful your two family members embraced the truth and accepted Jesus and there life.
This is the reason we love the Lord....even when our witness doesn't reach a loved one, God can show Himself and suddenly those who we thought were lost are changed. Praise God!
baileybear, I hope you are having a good day. How was science created?
science was created through same faculty which created religion...brain seeking answers creates both...
yes, science is the investigation of the world around us, coming up with a hypothesis, testing it, finding solid evidence to keep the hypothesis (otherwise chucking it out) and building a picture of how everything works around us. Science is objective (built on facts); religion is subjective (built on feelings).
very interesting, God is in connection with science also. He created all things on this earth.
God created all things on earth is belief system...there is no proof that God did it and no proof yet that God didnt do it..science is open unlike religion...religion is based on books which no body knows who wrote it and with what knowledge..it continues in form of passage to generation..it works since faith keeps it working ...science then comes up with solid evidence and new religion gets formed...thats how it works..so science is inquiring and religion is believing...
Now you did say something right...science is inquiring and religion is believing
On that note, you are totally correct! The knowledge of science is always changing. For centuries we had a planet named Pluto. Now science says, "Well, we made a mistake. Pluto is not actually a planet it is a dwarf planet...Ok
what are you going to "discover" about the moon next???
God's Word, His attributes, that which we know about Him have always been the same. He has never changed.... He is the foundation upon which everything else stands.
anything that is made can be unmade. All science does is measure what is already made. Of course the earth is 93,000,000 miles aways from the sun and the earth is also a certain size. (if the earth were one mile larger we would all be fried - this is a whopping coincidence lol) So science goes... hey gravity.. no God.. hey trees... no god... hey molecules.. no god... Hey no life in the universe.. no god.. Now doesn't that seem like supreme foolishness?
What made gravity, trees... etc.. is a question they always seem to answer by saying "i dunno". LOL brilliant! hahaha
"I believe in science because the great unseen dunno created it"
Yes science explains a lot of answers to birth defects! I agree with a lot of science... as I've said before it was my major in college! However, I believe science and God go hand in hand! You don't have to believe in one and not the other! You can believe in both!
you can only believe in both if you accept a compromise somewhere
That is not true.... science does not disprove God.
This is correct - it is pretty much impossible to disprove something. But also NOTHING proves god - and there is no evidence for the existence even of jesus - despite pretty much everyone else of the time being recorded by cross reference somewhere.
Science doesn't disprove unicorns or leprechauns, either. Do you believe in them, too? Do you believe everything science can't disprove?
Notice how your statement is not an argument?
What has that got to do with God?
Birth defects are caused by genetics and/or enviroment
Anyone who does not believe in the Bible definitely cannot believe in the Christian God, because the only way to get to God is through Jesus Christ. If you do not believe this, then you are serving a different God
So are atheists' minds better constructed than believers'?
I have a strong belief in God but that doesn't mean that I take every word in the bible literally. Though inspired by God, it was written by man. And in all the time the Bible has existed it has been translated, edited and parts of it have been left out. I've researched stories from other religions and found some similar elements. Perhaps God simply made Himself known to all of man in different ways so they can understand. Just an idle thought I've had. But God also made people unique so it stands to reason that we each have our own path to walk to the goal of heaven.
Hi evvy, all the scriptures in the bible were inspired by God . The men who wrote the bible did not take away or add to it. There are people today who create other bibles and add to it and take away from the true word of God. The true bible speaks against this. Jesus is the way to the pathway. I appreciate you for sharing. God bless you!
well if u look at human history bible is very very young book..belief in god and bible or quran is different thing..belief in god has been part of human much before bible was written..all great civilizations of the world in older times like egypt,greece,china, India didnt have bible to belief in and we must remember that these great civilizations were torch bearer of human race...and bible didnt exist at that time...but these countries surely believed in some god or other...belief gives strength to act...we are grateful to our ancestors that they carried on...
and who is to say the christian god is the "true" god? Even various christian denominations can't agree - that's why there are different denomonations in the first place
well there is nothing like true religious god or false religious god...it is faith of concerned person...what he/she believes becomes true and if others dont believe than other's god becomes false...that is how religion operates...
Denominations agree on the same God, Jesus, except catholic of course. But Christians believe in Jesus (Christians = to be Christ - like). The path on how to get there is what varies.
God judges the hearts.
1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known".
What we get from God is dependent upon our connection to God. Do i hastily scramble through the e-sword bible program and produce hub after hub after hub or do i wait upon the lord to understand what He wants to hub. We do both. LOL. Life is full of distractions and busyness in north america, this is why we have lukewarmness and disbelief toward God. So since 1/3 of our life is spent sleeping, the other 1/3 working, that leaves eating, family etc.. and then study time for God, 1/3. Hence we see darkly and in part.
But still it is all jesus that christian churches love and adore, except catholics.
You are wrong. The Hebrew scripture is ancient. The countries you mentioned did not have the bible, because they did not worship God, but idols.
Yahshua read the Torah before the people.
Your Quran is not ancient
There are people who believe God does not interfere with human conditions & the universe will lose its harmony if it does so. Then there are people who think God had already intervened in our life through Jesus but his words are either lost or misunderstood over time.
Theres a thing called 'Interpretation'. Even if you believe that bible is the word of God, u can still choose not to rely on Bible given the fact that there are thousands of interpretations for the same gospel. Skeptics would see such interpretations as the excuses of the believers to hide the flaws of Bible while believers would take that as an opportunity to find the true meaning of Gods words. One can believe in God without believing in Bible for sure. People does it all the time but I dont think Christians would support that!
Hi Rishy, there are no flaws of the bible. It doesn't mean the bible is not true when other interpret it different. Thanks for your interesting message.
Thats a emotional believe honey. Emotion is the enemy of reason. Nothing is perfect!
How can anyone be like somebody if they do not study Him? How can i impersonate clinton if do not spend the amount of time it takes to understand and emulate him? Same with Jesus. Same with God.
This is why God left a book because by looking into it we can emulate God and Jesus. This is why God protected his book, so we will have truth to emulate by.
Truth is of God. How anyone cannot believe that is beyond me.
Belief in the Creator-God Allah YHWH must be inclusive of the following:
a) Belief in his Angels
b) Belief in his books
c) Belief in his Prophets Messengers
d) Belief in the Day of Judgment.
Without the above the belief in God does not become rational and fruitful; it is incomplete and academic only.
and who decides which book or which prophet?...paar does?...if yes then call it your rationality...
All the the Revealed Books, if there are any for academic purposes ,in the original language revealed and secured; and the one that has come to us as it was revealed for our practical and rational purposes.
I mean Quran
your view point ...you have right to have one ...in same ways others have their view point...rationality is too a view point..what you call as rational doesnot mean that every one would consider it rational and what i think as rational might be irrational for you...it is subjective...
The written word is of man, it is a material thing, and people write things that excelerate their own agendas. We humans perceive things only from a material veiw. In the matter of christianity, modern new testament books which are in the bible, agree with the earkiest known copies, which have existed since the first two centuries after the crucifixion. As can be demonstrated in the elementary classroom, the more the story is passed around, the more it changes, and the books I speak of have been pretty stable, and, although there is some cause to believe that the events were or could have been exaggerated in the first two hundred years, they do seem to be intact. The worst errors are in the Western world's version of the Old Testament, which doesn't always coincide with the original Hebrew texts, which have also been extremely stable over the period of time that they were written. How is it possible for someone to believe in God and not the Bible? Easy.
This seems to be your over-generalization to eulogize Bible for your own satisfaction; otherwise there is hardly anything original from Jesus or Moses .
I agree. The Hebrews have protected their original scriptures.
The Western bible is really nothing like the Hebrew scripture.
Tell me, where in the old testament does it prophecy about Muhammad?
I know it DOESN'T, but some Muslims think so. That is why I addressed my question to the person I did.
Jesus came in Love. There is love althrough the OT. This is why i can accept that Jesus is the true representative of God, not just because the word says so but because it makes sense. God loves the poor, small group of pyramid builders that he decided to free them. Lovely. Then he said to them, Look all this land i give you across jordan. It is already yours, unwrap this gift! and they said " we be as grasshoppers in their sight, we cannot do it we will be killed". Gods jaw and heart musta dropped hugely. God is still saying the same thing.. unwrap this present! That is not a man of war, who sheds blood, this is jesus, who said nothing before his accusers and allowed himself to be the last lamb sacrifice to end a dispensation and to start a better one.
Jesus loves me yes i know, for his spirit in me tells me so.
When looking at Gods love we realize that labels like oppression, bigotry, slavery, revenge, immorality and hatred of unsaved is really just a bunch of whining by people who do not have a neuro-receptor to understand what God is really all about. We know that god loves his own; and even people who continually call Him names and label him badly, but! until they repent, gehenna is for the burning of garbage. Insane people will never enter Gods glory because they are unstable in all their ways, God must first heal their insanity.
Sure, if you overlook the oppression, bigotry, slavery, revenge, immorality and hatred of others, then yes, there is love in the OT.
It is just a fanciful thinking; no reality.
There is no compulsion in matters of faitn ; however mythical they may become.
The Christians, like you, believe in all those things.
But Muhammad was not a Hebrew prophet..all the other prophets of God were connected to Israel and/or Judah
cagsil wrote .....
if you have a belief in a god and don't listen to the message of the religious books, which are supposedly a god's words or a god's will, then obvious you don't believe in the god that that religion claims to exist.
If a person has no religious ties, but believes in a god, it shows their ignorance leve
That is an empty baloon where common cence is concerned.
Did Abraham, Isac or Jacob have a book from which they found their sourse??
Does a person have to agree with the majority in order to be right concerning their beliefs?
If that were true science would still think the world is flat.
Rishy Rich wrote:
There's a thing called 'Interpretation'. Even if you believe that bible is the word of God, u can still choose not to rely on Bible given the fact that there are thousands of interpretations for the same gospel. Skeptics would see such interpretations as the excuses of the believers to hide the flaws of Bible while believers would take that as an opportunity to find the true meaning of Gods words. One can believe in God without believing in Bible for sure. People does it all the time but I don't think Christians would support that!
Very true !! A little is lost when translated... And when we begin interpreting what is written we immediately loose some of the intended message.
Imagine that you are on a scavenger hunt .
Ya can't start in the middle of the directions and find anything. Ya gotta start with the first clue and follow it to the next clue.
Everyone today wants to start in the middle, and figure out where it started and where it will end.
Why not start in the beginning. First clue in the scavenger hunt. It leads you to the sceond clue!
The problem with private "interpretation??? everything!!
If any one have real faith in GOD .He helps to get knowledge and answer from our all religins & Holy scriptures.
Knock - it will open
Search - we can find out
Ask - we can get
Is it essential that a name of a truthful Prophet Messenger should be mentioned in a previous Scripture or Bible as a principle? If, yes; why?
In the Torah, when anyone was ordained and sent of God. There was prophecy foretelling the purpose and events to come.
It is a priciple not mentioned in OT; that would entail mentioning of Moses in a scripture previous than Bible. Don't you believe in Moses?
In the Torah, the one written in Hebrew, which is still of value, says that Joseph foretold of Moses.
It is a priciple not mentioned in OT; that would entail mentioning of Moses in a scripture previous than Bible. Don't you believe in Moses?
What, no reply Paarsurrey?
Where did they foretell of your prophet?
In the Holy Bible it was recorded in the Psalm in Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God . They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
To say there is no God is an act of foolishness. However, Some even believe there is God but still behave foolishly.
see the Holy Bible again in the letters of Paul to the romans
In Rom 1:21-32
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their
imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
To conclude, Jesus said you believe in God believe also in me(JESUS)the life a so called believer in God displays will show if s/he realy belive in God
Who wrote Torah? Please
Was it written by Moses?
If yes, then it makes your point invalid.
I told you before, I am not sure. The Torah is the first five books of the Bible and they are not in order.
Moses, I am sure wrote some. But he did not write about Joseph. Joseph came before him.
I don't believe the Quran is anymore inspired of God than Paul was.
And you never answer my questions, therefore, no, no one ever foretold the coming of your prophet.
But there is a rule about these forums that says not to post the same stuff on different threads.
Your dislike for all the American and Hebrew religions have been made clear on every thread. Your put downs are not love and they are not the way of peace. So stop pretending.
No one is going to convert.
I know Islam hates Israel, but that's too bad. Islam is not God's chosen people, according to the scripture I BELIEVE in.
Parr, same thing for Koran, who wrote it?
there is no proof Muhammed wrote anything at all, none what so ever?
I agree! And furthermore it is well known that Muhammad could not read or write whatsoever! His followers had to write down and memorize!
Of course moses wrote about joseph, moses wrote about creation and that was before joseph.
The Bible was written on the orders of a Roman Emperor who was a Pagan. He decided to become a christian and have the Bible written, in order to save his empire from being over ruled by christians. It would ferefore be fair to assume that he edited it. He would of left out anything that would of questioned his authority, probably having those things destroyed. This means that it should not be claimed that the Bible is untainted by human hand. However, it must of been written with devine guidence, otherwise many things in the Bible would of been proven to be true or false by now. God gave us the freedom of choice, and in that vane, gave us choices in religion. We can believe in any one, as long as we end up praising one God. Therefore, I have to say, that, yes, it is possible to believe in God without believing in the Bible.
People Who Believe In God
They should take along with them those who don't believe in the Creator-God Allah YHWH; only because man is a social animal and caring for the fellow mankind.
Why leave them isolated, alone and disgusted?
People Who Believe In God-the Creator-Allah YHWH are good to humanity also as they serve them selflessly for the love of the Creator-God Allah YHWH.
Jesus is however no god or son of god; he died a long time ago in India. It is no use to believe in his being god; he cannot do anything now:
[5:76] مَا الْمَسِيْحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ اِلَّا رَسُوْلٌۚ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنْ قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُؕ وَاُمُّهٗ صِدِّيْقَةٌ ؕ كَانَا يَاْكُلٰنِ الطَّعَامَؕ اُنْظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْاٰيٰتِ ثُمَّ انْظُرْ اَنّٰى يُؤْفَكُوْنَ
[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=75
I believe in a higher being/force but I don't believe one word of the Bible.
Its interesting that you think that. Do you believe that one day God will just fall into your lap? Or as cagsil says, Your mind will just expand by itself to comprehend the infinitesimal?
Bible is very mythical. Jesus did not use to read from it; neither he advised anybody to read this book. Mary also did not use to read it. They read the OT.
The NT was passed from church to church by apostles/disciples. These are called received texts because they were received from the apostles/disciples. They did indeed read these texts. The church in thesalonica read 1 and 2 thessalonians. The church a Corinth, read 1 and 2 corinthians, the church at rome read the book of romans.
The old testament is important but these letters were written to edify the church at that time and read them they did. And we are reading them too.
Paarsurrey, Did you ever think Jesus and Mary didn't read or teach the NT because it hadn't been written yet? He was making it with his life!
1st Thessalonians was written around 51 AD.
Romans and 2nd Thessalonian was written around 52 AD.
Corinthians was written around 55 AD.
2nd Corinthians was written around 57 AD.
Notice AD means after death. Therefore it would be impossible for Jesus or Mary to have read those! That is common sense!
Before some smart other type of person mentions it...
AD means after death - wrong....
Definition: 1. Abbreviation for Anno Domini - Latin for The Year Of Our Lord - used in the Gregorian Calendar to refer to the current era. A date such as 1945 A.D. literally means 'the 1945th year of our lord', the lord in question being Jesus Christ, providing a religious context and clearly distinguishing the time from an earlier era, where B.C is used instead. The use of A.D. was popularised by Bede.
But I know that you meant well!
...and a agree with your summation.... frankly I admire your patience, I long ago stopped even reading the 'peaceful muslims' posts!... I just scroll past them.
Oops sorry! I memorized it this way for some reason! I guess I had a lot to memorize and this stuck in my head!
Thanks for the correction!
It bothers me when he posts against Jesus! I'm about to give it up though! It's getting to be a little too much!!
year of our lord?..does it mean year when christ was born?
Yes AD in Latin means "In The Year of The Lord"
So, it is after his birth rather than death
Empty vessels make the most noise.....
Don't encourage him!
Woman Of Courage wrote:
Is it possible for someone to have faith that God exist, but does not believe the words in the bible is true? If your answer is yes, explain how?
I believe in the bible; the bible said that many will come in his name though they aren't.
They will come in the name of Jesus and fool many, even the elect if that is possible.
The most educated of religious scholars of the time might be fooled ????
It was recorded in 94 AD that a false religion will rise up out of the peoples of the earth.
I believe the bible; but why stop right in the middle of it? before we really learn something!
How are you going to believe in someone, but you don't believe a word they say?
Do you want to know Jesus or do you want to know religion?
If I were given the opportunity today, to introduce someone to God; I would suggest that they read only those words that are spoken by our Savior Jesus Christ.
Read those words written in RED.
Get to know Jesus as best as they can.
Get to know what he is said to have said.
Learn this first and foremost, build their foundation on which to build their belief system upon.
A firm foundation is required before they are introduced to religion and Its' interpretations.
If anyone says anything that contradicts the clearly stated messages that Jesus spoke? And you choose to believe them rather than Jesus? Who are you following?
So I ask you!
How are you going to believe in someone, but you don't believe a word they say?
The meathod of thought which baffles me is Agnosticism. How is it that somone can believe there is a God which does not reveal it's self to it's creation. Why would God simply create us and then leave us to ourselves without any kind of clue concerning the reason of our existence?
I believe it is imperitive that God reveals himself to his creation to let us know where we are headed, and what lies in store for us should we adhear to, or deviate from his chosen path to eternal happiness.
I believe it is imperative that God reveals himself to his creation to let us know where we are headed, and what lies in store for us.
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I am curious as to how many people have had a face to face in their dreams, or while awake; but do not admit this for fear of ridicule?
People can call them just that, A DREAM. Or hallucination.
Those people seldom have such an encounter.
But if they did they would sing a different tune.
Some of us would head for the doctor, me for one.
OK You don't think that it would depend upon the kind of DREAM that you had.
And what kind of premonitions that you received through them?
And if those premomitions came true?
Have you never experienced moments of Deja Vu?
Why can this kind of experience not be expanded upon.
Do you go to the Dr. for having Deja Vu moments?
I understand what you are saying, and the type of dream would be relevant.
it is the conclusions that are drawn from the experience that is different for some.
I did dream therapy for 3 years and saw plenty of faces, as I awoke from REM sleep every night and awoke from self induced reverie.
The mind builds all of them.
Yes we can induce the subject matter of our dreams.
Our desires and fears can influence our dreams.
Many people can become aware that they are in a dream state and actually become an active participant in their outcome.
And again I have often had dreams that have nothing to do with my subconscious bring them about.
Dreams you might say of a prophetic nature.
I do believe that there is an unknown reality just outside our consciousness that can not be proven by normal scientific means.
Is this God? I do not know for sure what it is. I just know that it is.
If someone wants to say that this is where "God" resides, I don't have a problem with that.
Call it what ya want! It is what it is.
Dreams are the high road to the sub-conscious Jeremi.
I have been able to "introduce" thoughts into my dreams and alter dream outcomes for 30 years now, such dreams can be captured in the waking cycle and manipulated.
Some important archetypal dreams produced during REM sleep may be very vivid and stay in the conscious thoughts for days or even weeks.
The subconscious response to fears that cannot be mitigated such as the fear of death, is to find an escape route and have the conscious mind accept it regardless of reality.
I understand the process of religiosity in the mind and why it is seen as real by the conscious mind despite the total insanity of the beliefs that are purported to support it.
The common denominator with religion is indoctrination initially though, as the belief in a god is so ridiculous that it would not be the first thing the subconscious would use as an escape from fear of death.
I have seen many beliefs that are even more complex than the bible emerge from the subconscious.
Are we getting any closer to a mutual agreement about dreams?
That would be nice.
I think that we are much closer on many issues than you have perceived.
Concerning dreams, They can be just as crazy as the individual that has them.
They can also be very informative concerning the path that we are on.
To me they seem to be a door way to a higher self as you say.
I don't know what it is? But there is something more to them than anyone can put their finger on.
I can say with the utmost honesty that I have never had a face to face conversation with the big guy, nor do I feel it is nessicary at this juncture in my life. I think that those who have had face to face conversations with God would most likely be more impressed by the opinion of the ultimate being rather than mere mortals. In the past, when people have had conversations with God, it has been his wish to spread his word. However we only have to go on the ones who have talked about it and will never know what he said, if he has said anything, to those who chose to keep it a secret.
I Think ..In most instances these encounters would be of a personal nature, I think it is due to this that most people do not want to make them known. to do so would be revealing things about themselves that simply wouldn't have a purpose for anyone else.
Though all lessons that we learn could be of use to anyone that will hear.
When we were young we heard most of the words of wisdom from the older folks but we didn't listen
It seems that each of us have to learn our own lessons.
Onusonus, I believe that also. God is always revealing himself. Some will not admit it out of rebellion, when the evidence is strong and very clear.
There is no evidence at all of a god. Just where do you see evidence so strong and clear? And I don't mean your subjective assumptions.
Show me this unbiased strong clear evidence and then we will be in agreement.
BTW, there is nothing to rebel against except the foolish ideas, that have been told to us by deceitful immoral charlatans. posing as God.
I've never seen God's face, even in a dream. I have, however, heard His voice once.
I have a question for the believers: when you think about God, how do you picture Him?
I think that when he appears in dreams he will appear in what ever you perceive him to be.
It wouldn't be his appearance that is important but the message.
Many times we have precognitive dreams that do come true, this was the higher power communicating things that is to come to pass, I think so that we know that this is the path to travel and we are more prepared to go through it.
Or we can choose to ignore them and we will not have any more.
And sometimes dreams are just dreams.
Just an opinion??
I find it fascinating that someone could recognize a voice having heard it for the first time and immediately acknowledging it's origin without ever having had any previous contact or knowledge whatsoever.
And, whether the voice was booming out as if coming over a loud speaker system or just a voice within the head, it can't be acknowledged to be a god unless the voice said so: "This is god speaking to you, I kid you not, it's really me..."
When the Israelites became enslaved they cried out to God for relief. God heard their cries and began His work with Moses to free His people. God performed a myriad of miracles for the Israelites to get them into the promised land. When the Israelites thought that their leader, Moses, was not coming back to the camp, they devised a way to keep God with them. Well, you know the story, they fashioned a golden calf to worship. In other words, they believed in God but they made and formed Him into their own image. Which of course, angered both God and Moses. The Israelites continued throughout the ages to make or form God into the god they desired Him to be. Many an OT law or regulation was made so that people were NOT allowed to think of God as they desired or to make Him to be a god they desired Him to be.
Today, it is still happening with those that know there is a God and even a Savior but find excuses to diss the Bible. There are those that use Buddha and Allah and a host of other religious icons, to support their beliefs and many a professed Christian finds no harm in this, and some even embrace this idolatry.
The bottom line is .. There are those that mold God into their own image(s). And then there are those that allow God to mold them into His image. The Bible-believers belong to the latter group. The Bible is our Moses, our OT law, so that we CANNOT devise a way to make God the god of our desires.
You can manifest your dreams, there are also waking dreams or day dreams.
About 25 years ago, I listed all my dreams, set deadlines to them and then 85% came true and the other 15% ended up, I really did not want them anyways.
Your subconscious is more powerful than your conscious mind
I agree dreams of a certain type self manifest.
The sub-conscious knows when you are requiring therapeutic learning and seems to adjust to produce magnificent representations of the dilemmas we face.
I awoke every single night at exactly 3pm for 3 years to diligently record my dreams and have over 2,300 dreams written down, and worked through in therapy.
This was one of the most useful thing I have done for my psych I believe.
Thank you. The hardest part of having these dreams in hardcopy is that I know I must read them again regularly as I attempt to grow my understanding of self.
It is painful emotionally and takes all my courage.
It always hurts like hell to see oneself even a little bit!
Most people never attempt to see the inner motivations, and caste their psych to the winds of the gods.
Dreams are delicate in some ways. They fade quickly if we try to think about them, they hang around if we don't.
Analyzing them is pretty pointless too unless we already know a fair bit about ourselves to help us to understand many of the symbolic representations that appear in dreams.
Dream therapy is great though and a lot can be gleaned about our real purpose from them.
You can believe or not, and will, according to your understanding. The gap that separates God and Science is closing. Dreams are easy, earnest. Native beliefs specialize in dream interpretation.
After 30 odd years of studying and reading in psychology I can assure you there is nothing easy about understanding dreams.
The experiences of the various tribes is incorporated into the empirical evidence gathered by Jung.
One tribe for example that believe the dream state to be real and the conscious state to be unimportant to life, others who hold that their dreaming is what controls the universe.
There are many ways to view dreams, but they are well known to psychotherapists who have made a complete study of Jung's work.
To analyze a dream correctly, first we must know the dreamer!
That not what joseph of egypt experienced when he interpreted the 2 fellows in jail and the pharoah dreams. He just got his interpretation straight from God, without knowing the people who had the dreams.
When man concocts a story they always bring other supporting issues into it.. God just interprets.... man must know the one who dreams, lol
psychology is so lame
Care to inform us about your background in psychology?
i hear some people have 30 yrs studying the bible and they have gotten nothing out of it.
psychology is something i have never needed nor relied on. It brainwashes and leaves people with a lot of questions.
The bible example was awesome
Is the answer that you have no knowledge of psychology?
I also have knowledge of the bible learnt in 3 languages and was a foundation member of CBMC. a world wide christian businessman's committee
Like you said many people study the bible for 30 years and understand none of it.
I am not one of them.
I am not convinced. I don't even understand how you can say that knowing how i have answered all your posts and hanging out totally thrashed your latest bible contradictions.
That last post containing the christian wars from religioustolerance.org (a site where the organizers admit not being in agreement with themselves) was not what you thought it to be either.
i do believe you know about cars.
Maybe both things happened in your world.
Here in the real world neither of you laid a glove on me and you both know it.
I thought maybe you would have gotten this post right but as usual you didnt.
still wiping the dust off cobbie.
die terrified lol
The only dust I'm in need of wiping off is the bulldust in this thread.
As for dying terrified, you should know a bit more about your subjects before casting aspersions like that.
Fear of dying terrified is the very reason for religious belief!
lol another aspect you have wrong.
Christ has nothing to do with being afraid of dying and in my case nothing to do with avoiding hell.
Most christians welcome dying.. The reason there was a church in rome was because CHRISTIANS went willingly into the coliseum to face lions, big terrible ferocious lions that tore them to bits, now that is belief but i guess you will call it stupidity or blind faith and again another thing you would purport as right but you are wrong. Have you not read about the martyrs? Since you quoted voice of the martyrs, a journal i subscribe to you would well know people are in jail, horrible jails because of the communist Chinese... but then again facts are only relevant when they support a preferred notion to some people.
Most people prefer truth, but, i find certain people don't care if they are wrong, proven wrong, if they cast about lies and misinformation or if they read proof that tells them their supposed contradictions are NOT contradictions; these people don't care about any of that. In my life, i had questions and once the questions were answered, the flood, and so on, but when i heard the explanations i decided not to live according to lies, i embraced the truth. Some people obviously don't care about what is false. They just don't want their bubble burst.
My heart is so sad.
That is unless you actually go about the process of changing that self into something that you don't mind looking at. If you aren't an atheist then there are paths to do so.
No pain, no gain. The way of ever rediscovering the self.
No help from any fairies though!
This is a voyage we must take voluntarily and with real self worth.
Looking at the shadow aspects of self and learning how to integrate them is a helluva lot harder than to believe goddunnit and remain a non thinking subservience to a bronze aged set of ideals that are psychotic in nature.
I think that this is very common. I believe in God. But I dont think its a bad thing to have your own opinion. Besides, there are so many different versions of the bible that it can distort your actual beliefs and how you interpret certain verses.
One can take several different Christian bibles and compare the scriptures/verses. Each one is written according to the author's interpretations. I believe the original writings of the men who wrote down "the word of God" may have been what they honestly felt was "inspired by God" -- yet when put into the bible, they were re-written for the common person. A lot was omitted, changed, or deleted to suit the priests and kings and others of power.
What is in the KJV was written for people of a different time and applies to their way of life. Can you imagine us trying to live today the way people did back then? In the Old Testament, there are rules written down that God told Moses and Aaron to pass on to the people. What worked for them back then would not work for us now in our ways of life.
I like to read the bible, but I do not live by it. I believe in God and Jesus, but do not attend any church. Each person who preaches in a church has their own interpretations and I prefer to worship in Nature, by myself.
The OT is another dispensation altogether, WE are NOT meant to live by their way of life.
As far as mixing jesus and nature worship.. you have a blended religion and God does not like that. There are scriptures against Nature worship. And the church is fully endorsed by Paul and jesus; jesus went to the mosques because the chruch age as many bible scholars and professionals and spirit filled christians call it, an age, is completely scriptural as a place to attend and grow in God. Christ is the head etc.
No one can pick and choose their favorite pieces to adhere to.
Good luck with that but just acknowledging jesus and not following as many of his ways as possible is to diminish the work and plans that God for each individual person.
There are many of these but few that surrender properly, this is not a work of God but of man.
Brotheryos psyche is indelibly imprinted, tatooed, with tales of fairytale god/s.
The possibility is non existent that the images and concepts bonded to his cellular brain tissue can be removed.
He is destined to resist any attempt to imbue them with a permanent tint of reality.
Any comment received from him will be based, totally, upon fiction, myth and superstition.
Smile knowingly wink and consider the source. :-)
There are a few here who appear to be brainwashed to the degree that they accuse using the old testament and defend using the new testament, and it amuses the hell outta me!
When I quote4 their gods words from the bible they forget to hear the words of hate and wonder "Why in hell would a god speak like that?
Instead they find it to be quoted "out of context"
HE STILL SAID IT MATE!
Regardless of it's context, these are words spoken by a murderous psychopath no matter how they try to excuse it with arguments about the context in which it was set. These arguments make no more sense than the rest of the self contradictory babble.
God said it. The book says so.
Why would anyone follow a psychotic, jealous, bigoted, sexist murdering god?
You are still accusing all of religious people of believing everything written in religious holy books as the eternal, everlasting and still contemporarily-relevant truth.
You are still wrong.
If you are incapable of accepting explanation contrary to your very inflexible opinion, then you have no one to castigate except yourself.
There are plenty of atheists throughout history that have said and done egregiously bad things. It would be just as wrong to ask why you don't believe in God when some other people who similarly don't believe in God have done really, really bad things.
The book has no contradictions.
Your reality i do not want, if you think i am a threat, please keep in mind i see no love or patience or even kindness from any of you.
Keep in mind also that after numerous decent corrections of misquoted bible scripture your cellular brain tissue and neuro synapsis also do not respond to.
As for permanent, your reality is temporary ending when you die mine continues beyond that. My reality exists forever.
superstition, myth, fiction without contradiction.
The bible is infallible, but people who shun good discussion, answered questions and context are quite fallible.
You have made me happy to say that i am irreversible and i thank you for noticing and admitting that one truth.
TY so much for making my point more poignantly than I ever could have!
I know you reside in the "isles of the blessed."
How do I know this? Because it is said that "ignorance is bliss."
I wink, smile a knowing smile and consider the source.
Are you addressing brotheryohanan or me?
Is that your roundabout way of calling me or him ignorant?
Livelonger: my apology! That was for brother...but it can also be aimed at you.
My freedom of speech, in the huppages forum, has been "banned" a couple of times, so I must be "civil" and respond thusly to this comment: "Is that your roundabout way of calling me or him ignorant?"
I'll leave the answer of that for you to "mull" over.
Don't apologize if it was your intent to insult, as it clearly was.
I certainly wish you would do a little more studying and "mulling" yourself.
Believe me, if I was going to try to insult you, I would be using much stronger language so that my intent could not be mistaken.
Now, I challenge you to test my knowledge and wisdom in areas of study and "mulling" you consider me to be weak in.
TY....I will again, as always, "consider the source." :-)
No, you clearly meant to insult, maybe in a way that you think skirts the rules on personal attacks.
Let's start with all those genocides and bloody wars that had nothing to do with monotheistic beliefs:
- China's Great Leap Forward
- China's Cultural Revolution
- Rwandan Genocide
- Stalin's regime
- Sri Lankan civil war
I have read and written so much on the genetic programming of we human animals.
Evidently you haven't.
Why would you challenge me on human trivia when it all boils down to our "natural" programming?
I've spent yrs studying the anthropological history of our species.
What would be gained by entertaining any of the subjects you just listed? All that info can be found in the public library or on Google.
I don't consider "trivia" unless it is realated to a subject I haven't studied. I deal in macro "concepts."
If you have a point relevant to that list, make it, but if you are a truly "educated" person, why would you thnk I'd be challenged by the foibles of human evolution?
Get real my friend.
Fit the pieces together and be amazed at the epiphanies you will experience when "reality" appears.
No, what I am still doing is being logical.
As I asked, who would follow such a psychopath?
As a young man I was a rigger on a construction site working above the danger money level for the extra dough.
it was dicey walking around on four and a half inch wide RSJ all day.
A religious nut who was a welder harassed me every day about religion until one day he got all fired up and told me that if I don't believe I am going to hell.
I walked across the RSJ to where he was working, picked him up by the throat and said walk out on that RSJ to show me your faith or shut your f**king mouth!
I never heard another peep out of him.
Good for you.
You described him as a "religious nut." Are all religious people the same?
Would all religious people harrass you about your beliefs?
Would all religious people threaten you with going to hell?
Do all religious people believe in hell?
Are all religious people Christian?
In answer to your question, yes those who take "the word" as truth do it all the time, haven't you noticed?
Not all religious people bring hell into it or threaten, but the tome they base their belief on does.
Yes, they are called fundamentalists. Some of those are strongly evangelistic, and feel they must aggressively proselytize.
Not all religious people are fundamentalists and/or evangelist.
Only fundamentalists regard everything in their religious tomes as the unvarnished truth. As much as it is seemingly difficult for you to grasp, there is a diversity of beliefs and practices among people, even adherents to the same religion.
How do you explain your stubborn insistence to paint all religious people with the same broad brush, when you know it's not fair to do so?
The diversity of belief is not news to me. Nor do I have difficulty grasping any of it, but thanks for the backhanded insult.
It is yet another reason to see that individual beliefs in a particular god and sect is about as unlikely to be true as the stats would indicate.
Take 35,000 believe systems that follow a god and tell me which god is the right and only one again?
Religion is about judging and controlling others. Your post is evidence of it.
I am not arguing what the "right and only one" is, much less trying to convince you of anything. I happen to think your beliefs are your own and you're entitled to believe whatever you want.
My religion is not about judging or controlling others. And since you only need one exception to disprove a rule, then your rule is bogus.
If you have a religion it is about controlling someone. Which religion doesn't?
Mine doesn't (Reform Judaism). I've already told you that.
You claim that reform Judaism does not control anyone?
What do you do with the NT? Burn it?
"We see the Torah as God inspired, a living document that enables us to confront the timeless and timely challenges of our everyday lives."
So you also believe all the passages of hate from the Torah as "gods word"?
I see your beliefs are inclusive of gays and other minorities. Admirable, but against your own scripture.
Yes. Do you have evidence otherwise that Reform Judaism controls anyone?
I ignore it, as I would do any other book for a religion I don't follow. Do you burn the NT? Why would you suggest such a ridiculous thing?
LOL that you apparently googled "what is reform judaism"!
Here's something you might have read to understand better:
"Nevertheless, since its earliest days, Reform Judaism has asserted that a Judaism frozen in time is an heirloom, not a living fountain."
I just find it amusing that it is supposedly one book and you ignore half of it. I would simply dice the whole shebang myself.
Take 35,000 believe systems that follow a god and tell me which god is the right and only one again?
If I see 35000 cows walking to the barn ... how many of them are going to be feed and then milked?
Jeremi I can't follow your meaning here. Are you saying you can sort out what is truth?
NO ! and maybe?
Was just having a crazy thought.
This metaphor just popped into my head and I couldn't resist writing it.
The farmer/rancher whatever, mostly wants the cows to come home. Don't really care which direction they come from getting to the barn. As long as the milk is sweet.
Yep I probably need to go back to bed.
So livelonger you are happy that this is your god speaking or not?
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)
You know how to stir a crowd up.
Many great laughs!!!
Well my friend, I really don't like people telling lies and pretending it is truth because some stone aged goat herders wrote a pile of crap about a sky fairy who controls my life and everyone else's.
It is abusive rot, and I won't stand for it.
So when you remove the hate passages or ignore them or whatever you do with them, you still have a homicidal maniac for a god as I see it.
It matters not which particular tribe or sect he is going to obliterate, it is the fact that it is stated as the word of this god that is the elephant in the room. What sort of omniscient god would be less sophisticated than the average 12 year old child?
Your malicious malevolent god is a lunatic!
Yes, you seem to have a tendency to see things in black and white.
Fundamentalists of all stripes are the same at the end of the day, apparently.
Thanks for nothing once again! I am not a fundamentalist of any color, I am just a person who does not buy bull*hit.
Why don't you address the comment. It would be better than making snide remarks to try and belittle.
I was not belittling, and I did respond to your comment...twice. (Provided you a link in case you "forgot")
Let's look at the hallmarks of fundamentalism:
- insistence that everyone believe exactly the way they do in order to be right
- having as a goal to convert every person to hold the same beliefs as they do
- ridiculing beliefs other than one's own
- imagining a utopia where everyone finally holds the exact same beliefs as they do
- feeling justified in deliberately misrepresenting the beliefs of others
- avoiding getting educated on the beliefs of others
Whether it's an evangelical Christian attacking Islam, a hard-atheist attacking any and all religion, or a Christian attacking atheism, these all tend to be true.
Yeah lets do that.
I have no belief I am pushing. None.
I have no goal to convert anyone to anything.
I only ridicule the ridiculous posts that ridicule non believers.
I have as many different beliefs surrounding my life as anyone else does.In my family we have two different Jewish religions, a catholic and 2 protestants, none of whom will have an honest discussion about their religions.
I never represent a utopia of any kind, although my life is pretty utopian.
I have never misrepresented anything about religion and quote directly from the text.
I have a sound education in religion and psychology among other things, and do not feel under educated about the bible having studied it intensely in 3 languages.
You are well off the mark branding me a fundamentalist.
Want to know something else? I will become religious at the drop of a hat with even an iota of proof as most non believers would. Who wouldn't want all those goodies like eternal life?
No, the whole thing is a myth I'm afraid and time is the enemy of myths that seek to control.
Born into Catholicism then later Evangelical baptist. I was later a foundation member of the Christian Businessman's Committee, arguing the bible with other churches was a major pastime then.
I read and studied my way right out of religion and boy did that accelerate my life!
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