Is it possible to have open minded debate on religion..god or not god..Christ or Muhammad or Buddha..is it possible that every one puts his/her point of view and people can discuss without ridiculing , attacking or defending their own beliefs..or being human emotional attachment is inevitable?
It is. But it depends on the emotional maturity of the contributor.
I have neve responded provocatively, unlesshed beyond reason by less self controlled opponents. I will hold a civil dibate with anyone who offers the same curtesy.
Being called a religionist, poor thinker, irrational etc does NOT help. I assure you!
Lets see how you go from here.
well i didn't just mean people who believe in religion only..even atheist become so emotional at times defending their own version ...i am talking about discussing religion by humans from all school of thoughts...
I don't "believe in religion"!
And I did think of all schools of thought when I posted the above comment.
okie..i got that..so your take is that it is possible to have good debate
I don't try and "convert" anyone, and I certainly won't be converted.
I'm actually very settled in what I believe, and why.
I was meaning all schools of thought too. Perhaps having had a bad experience can influence too? I mainly discuss/debate things with the christians because I have been immersed in christianity & I'm interested if they can give any decent answers to the questions over the years. I don't know a lot about the other religions
yes, the emotinal maturity as well as the personality style and life experience of the contributor
I think its hard, but not impossible. I think the key is trying to come into the discussion not trying to prove you're right and the other person is wrong, but rather, seeking to increase the understanding of everyone and being able to accept that just because people hold different views (hopefully) doesn't mean they don't respect you as a person any less.
I see this all the time in atheists AND Christians. Stop trying to convert each other and just dialogue in love. In all reality peoples minds most likely aren't gonna be changed in a forum. It happens... but not when you call names and cast stones.
as I discuss my feelings, My ideas on Christ, I am always being accused of trying to convert others, I can discuss my religion calmly most of the time when I start getting attacked I leave the thread, but I think that is what they want
Than give them what they want. All you can do is express your views respectfully. If they attack you in an attempt to make you leave, then the burden of culpability lies on them. Atheists accuse Christians of being overzealous... but the fact is we're both to blame. A man with a closed mind is not worth talking to.
That depends. Although scriptures were written by men many centuries ago, believers take them on as if they were part of their own bodies or characteristics of themselves, hence any debate is taken quite personal. In other words, criticizing scriptures is the same as criticizing the person, even though the two are completely separate and distinctive entities.
"In other words, you believe the laws of physics were easily violated because a book written by men who were steeped in myths and superstitions told you so".
"Yes, believers keep providing the same contradictions in a vain attempt to explain a contradiction. Funny, how when things go the way they want, believers praise their gods, but when prayers are not answered, it's all mans fault".
"And yet, it is the atheists who are accused of having a closed mind"
"Prayers are just wishes. Believers are steeped in myth and superstition, believing in magical kingdoms and things that go bump in the night. Their prayers are just a form of wishing, and when things happen the way they wish, they believe their prayers have been answered"
These are your posts beelzedad, strange how you sounded so nice in this thread. Want a hanky for that egg?
Course if earnest were here i would have numerous examples of "sky fairy" to copy and paste.
Take the mote out of your own eye before you even bother to accuse us of being out of the nice zone.
Funny how you always seem to offer only "emotional" insults to your posts and nothing of value to the thread topic.
Wait a minute, yes, you did...
it really depends on if the two people talking are open minded or not. if one or both of them are too set in their ways, then there's really no point in discussing it, as neither side is going to really listen to the other's point of view and vice versa. Hence, it's a wast of time and breath. However, if BOTH parties are willing to keep an open mind and actually LISTEN to the other's argument, then it's possible.
even listening to the opposition we can learn and strenghten our own position
i just said that if you read what i said....
i just said that if you read what i said....
my observation also - and in the process, venom and bile is ejected
It depends on the maturity level of a person. All a christian has to do is open a thread discussing their beliefs about God, the bible, prayer, or anything related to God, and some of the unbelievers barge in and start war. There is no excuse for this.
if you only want the christians, then maybe you should find a closed forum eg on yahoo?
There is also no excuse for christians to attack people that don't agree with them
Unbelievers are highly welcome to participate. My message was referring to the personal attacks and insults from people who don't believe in God. Please don't twist my words. I have not seen any christian attacking anyone for not not believing in God. I believe in respect. Have a good night.
I was referred to as "the enemy" on another forum. When a skeptic asked a question, a "christian" said, "I hear the devil speaking..." There are other similar references made by "christians" that act very superior with a "them" and "us" - I even read some hateful hubs by these christians, referring to unbelievers as swines and devils etc.
People with other views have been called "satan". If you can't see these things as attacks, then I'm clearly wasting my time.
I doubt the judgemental "christians" on here will even be able to see that they are behaving in this way, and actually repelling people, not atracting them.
I have come across a few decent christians that can actually see where I'm coming from
I can agree with ya, but the some of the non-believers can and and do get just as mean tounged
Just like you disliked your church and blame them for your present stance in life, some christians have likewise experiences with the unsaved. As most unsaved like to express their dislike for christianity in not a few long phrases, so some christians expect to also be able to express themselves in the same way. Sorry if this is perceived as UNchristian but when sinners are tossed into the lake of fire will their last words be, "well, that was very unchristian of God".
(that one always cracks me up)
Often with the unsaved, they expect to be treated like surprise roses at the door while they offer harsh, demeaning criticisms, rude comments and purport the most ridiculous statements as truth.
Each christian is in a state of growth. Perhaps your attitude was the launch pad for a new sprout on the vine. Perhaps some christian thought what you said was terrible. Some people have to grow a sense of forum decorum and that takes time. Atheists are truly the rudest of any group that posts.
Baileybear, I am not disagreeing with the messages you have read in the forums or in the christian hubs. Maybe the person had a good reason for saying they heard the devil talking. I didn't see the question, therefore I can't say if that person were attacked. I politely posted a comment to you once, stating I hope you come back to Jesus before it's too late. You were offended and falsely accuse me of preaching at you. Would you say my statement were an attack on you? I hope not. I will not speak for any judgemental christians you are referring to. I am not judgemental and I am fully aware of my behavior.
Yes, we can discuss the religion, the existence of God and the science in the affairs of life in a free mind set. Let us begin with the origin of religion. How and when the word 'Religion' is appeared in the Globe?
I think in some ways religion is based on emotion so it is very hard to discuss on an unemotional level.
If somebody believes in a religion it is usually the main part of their life - they live by their religion's values and scriptures, and believe that it is the right way to live. So if somebody disagrees and questions their beliefs by believing in another religion or by being an athiest, of course they are going to defend it and get emotional, if religion is such a big part of their life - its natural.
Can religion ever be discussed without getting emotional?
Of course not, some emotion is going to be used, in some manner or capacity.
Religion is nothing but an emotional response to fear of the unknown, to begin with.
Fear of the unknown is a common and natural response in just about all of us.
Once you get to know (Him), then fear is gone.
I don't love or have faith in Christ because of fear.
I didn't say anything about how or why you came to your conclusion. I was speaking to the reason "religion" came into existence. I would thought that was obvious.
Maybe you should do a little bit more in-depth reading, besides that of a bible, for which, you claim to have no association with.
You cannot claim to read a bible, and not be part of religion.
Yes, it is possible. It does require maturity and the capability to conduct oneself with integrity and respect during a debate. Also, it helps (but I suppose is not mandatory) to not already have decided that "you know the truth."
People who participate in "debates" over topics in which they believe they already "know" the "truth" are not really debating so much as trying to convert or win--this holds just as true for the arguments of atheists as it does for people championing a religious view.
Debate is supposed to be the mutual pursuit of truth SEEKING. Two sides bring their understandings together and, through the process of determining what both sides DO agree to be true, begin establishing a platform of mutuality acknowledged truth.
It is not about winning.
The ontological debate for God, if pursued respectfully (which it has been done a zillion times in the last 3,000 years) typically ends up with the agreement that "we just don't know" at the end. It's an impasse with one side pointing to inexplicable marvels as evidence FOR, and the other side pointing to previously inexplicable marvels now explicated as evidence AGAINST.
At which time, participants must just pick a side (on Faith or faith) or they must decide that there is no final answer to be had.
The atheist just doesn't know.
Anyone who has the guts to jump into christianity soon knows.
Do you think we are all in this because we do not know?
God may not fill our rooms with light or we may not be punching demons, but we know.
We sense his wishes, He leads us to places for purposes we discover later.
The sinners prayer is a wonderful door that leads to marvellous truth.
You bet we know.
If christ be not risen, then lets party and make merry, for if christ be risen not, then all for Him is in vain.
your proving others wrong doesnot allow discussion...your premise should be open ness ..what is I am wrong ...if that is your stand discussion can occur and so applies to atheist too..I am right might serve egos but not discussion...
well then get right. When a person is wrong, they are wrong. The bible says they are wrong and wrong is wrong. There really is no discussion as the questions that are being answered correctly are baby questions. There is not room for theological debate. The answer is just that the answer.
When a question has been answered there is not discussion, because any discussion will lead back to the same answer.
I think it is possible. It would be ideal if all involved could indeed, for the sake of discussion, put their own personal beliefs to one side, and take the attitude of scientists, critically and impartially studying molecules in a laboratory. Another ideal precondition would be if all parties involved could adhere to the Socratic ideal. The purpose of inquiry should be for all discussion partners to arrive at enlightenment TOGETHER! As Shadesbreath says, it is not about "winning" or "losing" the debate, but most people who talk about religion can't seem to lay down their flag, so what you get is mean-spirited, incoherent, repetitive jibberish most of the time.
you do have Christians getting mean-spirited,incoherent,repetitive jibberish some times but if you read these threads you will see that it is the non-believers doing the attacking.
Just look back at the threads, the non-believers do not want to talk about the thread, they want to attack the Christians
it goes both ways. I want to know things and ask questions - some believers get defensive and make sarcastic comments back. Sometimes I do challenge their doctrine, by asking hard questions. I don't deserve to be treated like a piece of sh!t in return.
I've just had some very mean-spirited comments left on my hub by a "christian"
The people doing that is not Christian, they just say they are, sometimes I get tired of the mean comments I try to get off the threads before I say something that I do not really want to say
Christians and Atheists both are like in one way, they're both human, and humans are emotional beings. The difference lies in the thoughts and beliefs that trigger those emotions. Christians are zealous about their beliefs, and Aheists are zealoous about their beliefs. Let's consider the life of a gangster who believes in defending his territory from rival gangsters. They believe that it is the duty of a gangster to defend his territory, but in the eyes of a Christian, this is nothing but human agenda based on falshood, and the immoral justification to carry out more violence on another man, i.e, driveo-by shootings, fights, and etc. One thing Atheists and Christians can agree on is that violence on those terms are not civil, nor is it moral. Yet, the gangsters will justify violence. Likewise, some Atheists are extremists, they're the people who spit in the face of preachers, hit them with their fist, and think that what they do is right. And for the Atheists who support such extremists may as well conform to that behavior themselves. On the other hand, there are "self-professed" Christians who are nothing more than extremists. They are the people who blow up abortion clinics, make threats to people who don't agree with them, and they form so-called "Christian" hate groups (see youtube).
The truth is, Christians and Atheists can't both be right. Somebody is right and somebody is wrong. One side does not believe in "absolute," and the other side believes in an absolute. Either there is an absolute or there isn't. There is a God, or there isn't. Another thing Christians and Atheists can agree on is that there is light, it exists, but there is also darkness, and it exists as well. We both know that light and darkness can't be associated together, they have nothing in common with the other. An Atheist can't be won over by debate, and neither can a true Christian.
Trying to convert or conform the other person to your beliefs is like trying to change the spots in your underwear. Everybody knows that when they take off their underwear, there are spots that will always be there. That doesn't change. That is the nature of the human body. Likewise, Christians are conformed to one nature, and Atheists are conformed to a different nature. If you pick up a scorpion, it will sting you, because that is the nature of a scorpion. That is why I know what to expect when I debate an Atheists, I expect to get stung.
The truth is, Christians and Atheists can't both be right
Well actually - they can. The issue is only in the interpretation, in a few thousand years from now the 'idea' of god and the 'idea' of the energy in the universe will probably be much the same - just nothing like the religious folk think it will be.
If we consider humanity be the first religion we will never be emotional. Actually religious beliefs were tampered by some selfish people. If we understand the religion in proper way we will never be emotional.
you have a point..in end all religions are same at core..no matter how much people disagree...crux is same and religions were born to serve humanity ..it is not otherwise...religion is for human and came into being after human came into being...no other species has religion ...it should never come between two human's ability to have good repo...
all religions are not same at core. They CLAIM to be same. They CLAIM to lead to God. But only Jesus leads to God. God is the father of Jesus and Jesus is the son of the Father, who is Yahweh, who is God the creator of heaven and earth. The Crucifixion of Christ on the cross IS the CORE of Christianity.
God didn't promote a religion..The most important thing here is we believe in one GOD and having an intimate relationship with HIM.
Of course religion can be discussed without being emotional - it is just a crutch for the weak minded who are unable to grasp anything more complex than an old rule book. See, unemotional and clear.
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