Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?

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AEvansposted 13 years ago
Lately I have been noticing that many of us have an addiction to the religious threads. Although I am Christian why do we believe we have to argue about religion? Shouldn't we be embracing those, who are non-believers instead of telling them why they should believe? Didn't the Lord say, " Judge and we to shall be judged?" Didn't he say, " Love one another as we would love ourselves?"

When discussing our beliefs shouldn't we explain ourselves calmly and turn the other cheek when someone disagrees? That is what Jesus would do. Shall we as Christians try this? Let's see if it works.

Shouldn't we learn from each other and gain knowledge so that we can all get along?

So let's see if we can be nice to a person on this thread who does not believe, that is what Jesus would do. Do not attack those who do believe they to are entitled to there opinion and thoughts in a positive way.

I will begin......

I embrace those who do not believe, because they are a creation of God and they are my brother and sister. All are created in his image.

Next...
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  quicksandposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Believer here!
  
  What matters is not whether they (we) believe or not. What is important is how they (we) respond to what life offers. That way the atheists have a clear edge over us believers!
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea ,no, see God gave us a brain and a sound mind, and we all should exercise it. nicely of course
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  2besureposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many of the religious threads on HubPages, are started by atheists that want to provoke and argument. Sorry to say that many Christian fall for it ever time. Once you discern their purpose it to cause dissension, I find it best to ignore them. You can not embrace someone who is not interested in what you have to save. Scripture reminds us is best not to cast your pearls before swine. He that winneth souls is wise.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This swine thinks you don't have any pearls.
  
  You should look back through the threads....most are started by religionists like yourself flogging their invisible ineffective god myth like used car salesmen/women and calling people who don't buy their ridiculous myth swine!
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  TJenkins602posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are not Swine, just pedestrian, LOL!!!
  
  Okay, I couldn't resist the used car salesman remark.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are selling a lemon.
  Calling people swine is not funny/
  
  I wonder if you would have the guts to say it to my face?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, I think you will find that when someone quotes the scripture 'pearls before swine'they are using a metaphor, not casting slurs on your provenance or character.
  
  Having said that, I believe pigs are actually very highly intelligent, and doubtless very few of them believe in God.
  
  Pearls Before Swine
  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  Pearls before swine refers to a quotation from Matthew 7:6 in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, implying that things (such as pearls) should not be put in front of people (or in this case, swine) who do not appreciate their value.
  
  If you start taking things too literally you stand the danger of becoming a fundy!
  
  Now that would be interesting!
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  Levertis Steeleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! I thought that it was cute the way he got defensive. He seemed ready to fight. "I wonder if you would have the guts to say it to my face?" he said. Well, these hubbs usually end in altercations, actually ivitations to fight! We human beings are ridiculously funny. I agree with 2bsure; it is probably best to avoid them because most people who create them are looking for arguments. It is a strong person who can control emotions and handle criticism professionally. James Watson is the best I know.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't see why some gutless religious fanatic who can't make an argument to save themselves should get away with calling others pigs, but then with the amount of abuse in the bible I guess you don't even notice low-brow crap like calling people swine, so it matters not to you.
  
  If you did it to anyone's face they would deck you for it.
  Try calling someone a swine in the street and see how long you can keep a straight nose!
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've been shocked over the last couple of days. Several have claimed that isn't meant as an insult. I don't see how it could be taken any other way. I've been told 'it's just a metaphor'. Like that makes it all better.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's the same old rope that holds all the bible and quoran based religions together.
  
  Threats, insults and abuse made by proxy are no less threats insults and abuse than when they are made directly, the only difference is they hide behind an invisible mythical god to do so, which is why I call them gutless.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is gutless, inasmuch as no one could be so dense as to not understand how it is an insult.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Emile, you put it well. I think you are pretty honest with yourself and others on these forums.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  C'mon Earnest you know insults flow to and fro ,especially when personal beliefs are heated.
  
  Im sure if we created a list of insults,implying someone is behaving like a swine would just be one of several.
  
  I don't like any of them, I also don't like my character being insulted,but people don't always play nice in the sandpit.
  
  I respect you however, because you are courteous and respectful to women.
  
  Thats all Ive got say about that
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  SanXuaryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have to do something otherwise you our not really doing anything. People have to generate their own interest and in most cases you our simply a messenger and God does the work. Never condemn, express what you know and most of all create a question for them to answer. Only God can save anyone and yes for many this will be their only life. I have attended many churches and was condemned right out the door so I can understand why it is hard to embrace unbelievers for some. In all truth everyone is seeking the same thing but some of us choose to do it with-out seeking any knowledge or possibilities. I have no idea what penalty exist for simply seeking knowledge but there is a lot to know in order to be wise.
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  TJenkins602posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm friends with anyone that accepts me. Believers or not.
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  Levertis Steeleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To answer the hubs big question: NO to the 12th power! Human beings are generally too argumentative and just too stubborn to embrace others who do not like their "cheese." Simply put, we are selfish.
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  Levertis Steeleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is a lot of animosity here. People are as hateful as they were in the days of burning others at the stake. I think that only the law prevents most of it today. It is hot in here, and I am taking stage left!
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are correct about staying calm; however, I also think that Jesus was fairly straight forward about the way we should live and address his teachings. Additionally, keeping no believers engaged is a great way to keep them thinking about Jesus. Even Peter denied Jesus 3 times.
  
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not Peter, I will make it a fourth though.
  
  There were many other "teachers" at the time this was written....... an easy way to make a living from the great unwashed and superstitious masses at the time.
  
  Apollonius did it up-market, so we know he existed, he left proof that can be seen today.
  
  Jesus never made it into the proof side of things, but because of christian politics he did make it in to the bible as the son of god...... one of many candidates.
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, there is a whole New Testament written about those things.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm from Missouri ..... show me.
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here you go Bushwacker.
  
  http://www.devotions.net/bible/00new.htm
  
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've read the whole thing before, I asked you to show me where, not point me at the book I know doesn't support your premise.
  Don't call me bushwacker dogdbreath!
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I showed you the New Testament, where the proof is located. You said you were from Missouri, I thought you'd be honored to be called a Bushwhacker.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This may surprise you, but I was not in the American civil war, and in Australia that is an insult.
  As I said there is no proof.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, in fairness I didn't get the Missouri *show me* thing either... I was sitting there going "Wait a minute, I thought he was an Aussie"
  
  I think he took you at your word and assumed you were actually from Missouri... and in Missouri Bushwacker kinda is a complement to some.
  
  I don't think he was actually trying to insult you...
  
  *covers head and flees from thread*
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm from Missouri show me" is a common enough retort when someone tells you something you doubt, and as far as I know it is pretty universally known.
  
  After all it is in common use it my country although it is American in origin.
  I doubt any reasonable explanation from someone who handles the truth as carelessly as he does.
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  RookerySpoonerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never heard of this Missouri expression, and have no idea what it means. Never heard of a bushwacker either.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Missouri is the ' Show Me' state.
  
  I'm not sure where he is going with the word bushwhacker. I'm American and I only know it as an insult. Someone who shoots people in the back.
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  AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the United States each state is allowed to choose a motto which represents them. The state of Missouri is known as "The show me state." I am from the U.S. and I can't tell you why it is the "show me state." There really isn't anything there to see of course unless you like rolling hills and tornadoes. But just my opinion.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Missouri reminds me of some parts of Australia.
  
  The show me thing has always been a way to say "I'm sceptical, give me proof" as far as I know that is how it is applied in Missouri as well.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well Im a Kiwi from the Land of the Long White Cloud,currently living in the Buckeye State.
  
  No wonder Im confused in the most delightful way.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  You're in the Buckeye State? Okay, here's the obvious question...WHY??? lol (Since I'm a native "Buckeye", I can ask, haha) Not much in this state, although I keep returning here...
  
  As far as the term bushwhacker--I thought that was what you called people who whacked their way through the bush, like in the jungle or something? I had no idea it was anything derogatory...
  
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's regular use is as an insult, as in a nasty bushwacking animal in the song "My boomerang won't come back."
  
  When Australians say "I got bushwacked" they usually mean they were taken by surprise and assaulted or robbed.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well, I'll be darned...I did not know that. I do remember that song title, though, but nothing else about it--I'll have to check it out...
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_prtbj4MtDU
  Charlie Drake.......funny man.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Wow...I'd forgotten all about that song, lol...it's hilarious! Now I'll have it running through my head the rest of the night, haha.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ..lol well many Ohians ask me that, and I say Why not?...
  
  I love the people!, having said that ,Ive only lived in SC before here, and had glimpses here n there of a couple of other states.
  
  I am like E.T and I missed the mothership lol.
  
  Its like being at a carnival ,where to start ,what next ,and are we there yet ,lol
  
  Bushwacker ,Yea it does seem to be more of an Aussie slang ,although Ive heard it from Kiwi rednecks, from time to time too.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In Australia you don't need to be a redneck to know what it means.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I bet ya dont
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well, I'm happy to hear that you like it, since you're here!
  
  I guess I look around, here in western Ohio, and all I see is cornfields and cows--so I think it's time for a change again...
  
  If you ever get a chance to go west, you'd love it, I'm sure. I used to live in Colorado--I think it's the most beautiful state in the U.S.!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I miss the cows most of all, and the sparkling green rivers..BUT you have lightening bugs ( I trained them to come to me )..and raccoons! and chipmonks and the stories I have to tell -I should be writing them.
  
  I am near Youngstown, wanted to experience a different culture (Holy Crap)
  
  (Thought it would help take the edge of this English accent-yo yo s'up g/frrrriend)...It didnt..lol
  
  Is Eugene in Colorado?...looks amazing there..wild and healthy
  
  Oh fresh fish!!
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No you didn't.
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here, I'll post the link for you again. Maybe you couldn't see it the first time. http://www.devotions.net/bible/00new.htm
  
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  AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest isn't from Missouri, he is Australian unless of course there is a Missouri in Australia.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have read the book ok? No proof.
  When I said no you didn't I was referring to the post, I was making the statement that you did not believe I would be honoured, you tried to insult and it backfired, and you don't have the goolies to admit it. .
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, I didn't try to insult you at all. Don't take things so personal. You said you were from Missouri so I called you a Bushwhacker, I could have also called you a Missourian. I didn't know Bushwhacker is an insult in Australia. So I guess you lied about being from Missouri.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you care to point out any lies I tell, I will be glad to correct them, I don't like lies.
  
  It is a very common saying, and there are very few who don't know that I am a proud Australian.
  I don't lie, and I find it hard to believe you have never heard it said before.
  I have, many times in America and Australia.
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  ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know you're from Australia. That's why I thought you were joking around when you said you were from Missouri, to which I joked around back at you by saying Bushwhacker. Yes I've heard it said before. It wasn't meant to be an insult. It's what you call someone from Missouri. And I'm from the West Coast, Bushwhacker is not a common saying on this side of the water brah.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OK, I will accept your explanation and put it down to a misunderstanding.
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  AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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AEvansposted 13 years ago
Is everyone afraid?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I embrace all of my fellow members of the human race, although they are not the creation of any invisible gods.
  
  How's that AEvans?
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  meginiowaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My pastor discussed this very issue in his sermon this morning, saying that ultimately our lack of tolerance has a lot to do with the growing amount of atheists in the U.S. Something like 30% of us identify as non-believers. I was always a believer but never went to church but this movement of evangelical atheists was my incentive to find a church. Thank you for your piece AEvans.
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  meginiowaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I should have pointed out the irony of the rabid atheists driving me to attend church. I also want to say that the most generous, service-oriented and progressively minded people I know are church-goers. I don;t think anyone has ever accused Dawkins of any of these things.
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  meginiowaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of Dawkins here is an excellent piece which includes Marilynne Robinson's (a member of my church) vehement criticism of Dawkins' "The God Delusion." If you have a subscription to Harpers you can read the entire article online.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Have you finished dissing everything you know next to nothing about?
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  meginiowaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wish you all the best.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are no evangelistic "atheists" just as there are no evangelical non-believers in the tooth fairy.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would say you are an evangelistic atheist. I have never seen anyone more on a mission to change others than you. You do it in the most rudest of ways all the while applying smiley faces as if that somehow makes what you wrote nicer.
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You haven't met Mark then have you? Earnest is a cuddly kitten really, I have not seen him threaten anyone with eternal damnation yet....
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't seen anyone threaten anybody with eternal damnation. And yes I have seen Marks work, he is indeed another evangelistic atheist.
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It sure wasn't God that told my best friend back in catholic school that she was going to bun in hell for wanting to do confession directly with God instead of through a priest....
  
  Lucky for her, I had it on good (religious) authority that I too was bound for the hell fires, told her we would be sure to meet up there.
  
  Telling children they are going to burn in hell is just wrong and I got it from EVERY church I attended, Luthran, Catholic, Methodist and Baptist.
  
  Stop fooling yourself and talking a bunch of BS, your lot do threaten hell, to CHILDREN!!!! Lie to someone please.....
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Angry person aren't you, did any of these people threatening have any ability to carry out the threat? No! By the way I don't believe you were ever threatened. Have a wonderful day.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Kristinblog: My parents were catholic, I thought I was going to hell as a kid too. Then my mom started dragging me to the pentacostal church that my dad's cousins discovered. That made things worse. Repairguy thinks your lying, of course he does. Of course people like that don't remember how it was as a kid. Sure the adults meant well, didn't realize they were scaring us but they did and a lot of us who didn't get brainwashed are scarred.
  
  Anyway, I swore I'd stop writing on these things and concentrate on my writing. The real reason I joined hubpages. Seems like I get sucked in. I still have a lot of scars. I guess I still need to get this stuff out of my system.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I remember being a kid going to church well, I was never threatened with eternal damnation and never until now ever heard of it. I think those anti religious types have an axe to grind and its more with their parents than with the church. Some people just shouldn't be parents.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey repair guy. I'm like you. Never heard this bull in church growing up as a child, but anyone who reads the forums here can see that there are quite a few believers who like to push it.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That may be, they are wrong for doing so.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. And that behavior is my primary problem with christianity. Since you don't, I'll give you a virtual hug.
  
  Don't get spooked. I'm only doing it because it will make AE Evans happy.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It shouldn't be a problem with Christianity because some on these forums do it. I don't blame all of Islam because some Muslims flew planes into buildings, gotta put blame where it belongs. I'm not spooked unless you're a guy then a handshake will do.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, in theory. But, I'll be honest. The older I get, the more I see it in the real world also. It's a little unsettling at times. I think, it upsets me because I don't understand why the moderate Christians don't stand up and denounce it.
  
  But, I'm like you in that I will not blame Islam for the action of a few insane radicals.
  
  And, I'm a girl, so no reason to be uncomfortable with the virtual hug. I have been referred to as a heathen by some of the Christians, though.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lets virtual hug it out then.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lolololo! Get hugging! (((((Hugs))))
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ohh you are adorable! lol! Do you see how complicated it is? lolo! This is going to be interesting.
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  amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you are right, Repairguy. My dad's cousin used to tell us we had the devil in our home and as a five or six year old, well it scared me to death. Then my mom's religious sister told my father who had cancer that it was god's punishment. He died shortly after that and I never saw her again. I know I'm angry at Christians for a lot of the stuff that was done and said in the past. I haven't met any Christians that were much different than what I've experienced. Maybe if I did, it would restore my faith. Guess I have a lot of healing to do, huh?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You must have missed almost every thread here if you haven't seen the religiously impaired making their threats of damnation.
  
  As usual, you abuse the privilege of any real conversation, and show that you are not prepared to embrace anything except your dogma.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  EG IS an evangelistic atheist and there have been plenty of threats of damnation in these forums.
  
  You both are right and you both are wrong.
  
  Now come over here and gives momma some lovin'
  
  (((hugs)))
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am all for hugs, I take and give em where I can.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Eh, I haven't seen a single threat, show me one.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't seen one either. lololo! Geez people are really getting along.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are none on this thread, and that is not surprising. It hasn't got the usual "Are you still beating your wife" type loading that most religious threads have.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which is nice. Who wrote that horrible comment on one of your hubs? That comment is insane!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't play denial mind games. Find them yourself or ask around here, there are dozens of them.
  Here is a small piece from a reply to my hub as an example of religious insanity.
  
  "Look up the word "fault-finder" moron, try reading ALL of the Bible and not taking it out of context and ignoring every time it uses the word love, like LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, DON'T HOLD A GRUDGE, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU, IF ANYONE HATES HIS BROTHER YOU KNOW HE IS A MURDERER... Committed any sins lately, HYPOCRITE? And you're contradicting yourself idiot: you're taking your desire for revenge out on God whom you are illogically blaming for YOUR SINS MORON. HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHOICES. Stop contradicting yourself moron and stop hating God. Dur."
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's ranting but I didn't see a threat. I haven't seen any of these your gonna burn in hell things I've heard about. I am not going to look for anything, atheists made the claim that they are and have been threatened in these forums, prove it.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Couldn't be bothered. Believe it or not, I don't I don't give a rats what you believe
  I don't believe you haven't seen them.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't have to believe, I know I haven't seen them. I didn't think you would produce one. Oh well, another victim of the religious no doubt, hope it gets better for you.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This may be the part of the rant you needed.
  
  "What a hypocrite. If you don't like God, HIS universe, or HIS SONS AND DAUGHTERS, he will force you out and throw you into the darkness of Hell."
  
  I think I could find 30 I have answered on forums, as could others here. Time will disclose the truth of my statement, and you won't need to wait long. There is a new zealot along fairly often, or an old one.
  I don't tell lies.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure that is a threat but it is certainly a stupid thing to say. But that was a comment on one of your hubs was it not? There are all kinds of nuts whether they be religious, atheists or sports junkies. I don't believe they make up a majority of Christians.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A threat made by proxy is still a threat is it not?
  
  If I told you I wasn't threatening you, but if you did the wrong thing my Hells Angels mate would be dropping by for a visit is that not a threat?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  from a post 32 minutes ago;
  
  Don't twist this into an Anti-God campaign cause technically he has the right to do with us as he sees fit. Its really too complexed to explain on this forum, but the only one ever perfect was Christ,
  
  This is not a threat either is it? Someone else's god can do with us as it sees fit?
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you want to twist words, and you do, then I guess its a threat. Or what if God wanted to bake you brownies? Maybe that's what he would do with you.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If the Bible says you will be thrown in hell for whatever reason then its merely instructional. I'd enjoy a Hells Angel in my neighborhood, we don't get any this far South. Last one I knew of was shot in the head for trying to start a chapter in Austin, the Bandidos don't seem to like that.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Merely instructional eh? The Bandidos are wooses. The Angels will clean their clocks for that little boo boo.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They haven't yet, matter of fact they don't come to Texas because of the Bandidos. Don't know much about the real 1% clubs do you?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, nothing at all, just spent half my life around them, owning bike shops they loved to visit.
  
  You are an expert on bikie gangs are you?
  
  Tell you what. give me your address and I will arrange for a hundred or so of them to pay you a visit so you can catch up with old friends.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are going to arrange a visit of hells Angels? They gonna be flying colors? You are an interesting guy, I'm not likely going to give you my address, but not out of fear of the Hells Angels (who wont be coming to Texas) but rather good common sense. I wouldn't want 15 Pizzas being delivered.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Hells Angels are only one group I know. I know dozens of them. Bandidos, coffin cheaters, road rebels, Gypsy Jokers, I have friends in all of them. I don't know about the pizzas, you would have to ask them.
  Most of them are world wide.
  
  I will let the boys know you don't think they are game enough to come to Texas, I can't wait to hear their replies.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Their replies will be hollow threats that they will come to Texas, but they won't. Texas is Bandido territory, Texas isn't Australia where apparently the chapters tolerate commingling. The Hells Angels will not come to Texas except by invitation. I would love for you to have the pull you think you do, but unless you are the National President of the Bandidos and extend that invitation the Hells Angels will stay away. Prove me wrong and show me how much rank you have, I'm waiting.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  None of the guys I know make threats, They just do what they say they will.
  I have their respect... something you have to earn, not so easy for someone who is a god botherer.
  
  Do you know all the biker groups in Texas and their relationships with each other, and the meetings they have to sort out territory? The Bandidos are a strong group, but nothing like the Angels.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Every club in this State (and I have no idea how many there are) is a Bandido support club. They don't do it willingly but if they want to have a club it has to be sanctioned by the Bandidos. Their cuts can identify what city or county they are from but it cannot say Texas, that is reserved for the Bandidos and only the Bandidos. I'm sure you are impressed by your Hells Angels friends, and I'm sure they would talk the talk, but they wouldn't dare walk the walk. You got the juice and they got the stones then prove me wrong...you wont! I'm not concerned about having the respect of criminals and I'm not sure why you think that would be a badge of honor. It takes all kinds I guess.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Respect from bikers is earned by knowing as much or more about their machinery than they do. I have never been in any form of trouble, not even an outstanding parking ticket.
  
  You don't have to be a criminal to gain respect, you just need to be capable and real.
  Do you have a clean sheet?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They also give love/respect to sick kids and their parents. I've never met such a group of sweet, big-hearted men and women... who would happily beat the crap out of anyone that pissed them off. All in all, we got along just fine
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I found them the same. The local H.A. chapters do a toy run every year, and are huge supporters of the underdog that very few get to see or hear about.
  My shop took their check for 30 years.
  I went 16 years without one dud check dealing with bikers.
  The first bad check I copped was from an upmarket suburban doctor.
  
  The problem some have in perceiving what bikers are is that they have no first hand experience and take their imagery from TV cop shows to support their stereotype.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They do poker runs for kids around her all the time... and I do mean ALL THE TIME... I refused all their offers to do one for my son (What the hell is a poker run going to do for almost a half of a million dollars in medical bills?) I did use them for some of my families when I was working for the early intervention program. I learned after the first one to wear jeans, because skirts were an infinitely bad idea when you are going on a motorcycle whether you want to or not.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Glad to hear the boys are working for the kids in your area.
  I wonder if it's worth asking for half a mill from the boys? I know of a couple of things they have helped parents out with.
  I wish you and your son were here and on our free medical, it would cost you nothing at all in most cases, even for rare expensive drugs except for the $4.10 to fill the prescription.
  That sucks!
  Thank all that is good he has a mom like you, who can think clearly and be sane for him.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, he passed away four years ago the 19th so the babies that are still around need the money much more.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, I really goofed. Sorry Melissa, That is heavy duty devastating.
  
  I don't feel sorry for you or your children or husband or any animals in your vicinity, though.
  I just read one of your hubs and left a comment, that sort of says what I think. You are so lucky just to be you, and I am happy to say that I think you are well aware of that as well. Stay happy.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't goof. It was and still is devastating but he was a beautiful, sweet lovable boy who touched a whole bunch of people in his three years. Thank you for the kind words
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wonderful reply thank you.
  
  My eldest grandson lost his mother a few years ago now, we all miss her very much. She was only in her 30s. I will always remember her and have pasted some of her thought into my own brain, the things she was better at than me, and then I try to live them. It works for me, I loved her to bits, she was an angel.
  My son took it badly and has only recently recovered and remarried. They are now pregnant.
  
  Life is something else isn't it? You couldn't make life up, no one would believe you.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say anything about you being a criminal, I asked why you thought it was important to have the respect of criminals? Clean sheet? If you mean do I have a clean arrest record then yes, as clean as it can be. A lot of clubs do poker runs/toy runs and that's great that they do. The 1% clubs do it to try and create an image that they are actually good guys, they are not, that's why they are 1%rs.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What does "as clean as it can be" mean exactly?
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Never been arrested, never been involved in illegal activity at all. That's as clean as it can get.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What you should no is I am no fan of the bandidos, I just have knowledge of how they operate. It should also be noted that the Bandidos don't go into California either, that is the Hells Angels territory.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In reality the circumstance would be as follows:
  
  You saw someone doing something (like trying to open a Banditos outlet in Hells Angels territory)that you KNOW will be badly received by the big Hells Angels leader, and you tell then that what they are doing will gain them a visit from a Hells Angel and even the big man himself....
  
  That's not a threat, it's warning them of impending danger.
  
  Now if they had no fear of the Hells Angels (and maybe even believed they did not exist) they would ignore your warning)
  
  Is that a fair analogy?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not bad at all aqua.
  
  I may ask a friend what he reckons.
  
  He is a Hells Angel. I have a few friends in clubs.
  
  The Angels do a toy run for the kids at Xmas time here. A lot of them were long term customers and some are long term friends.
  
  Some of them are almost invisible, but I am sure they exist.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's all a matter of perception!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently it is. Here is a bit from a reply I got on my hub that speaks volumes to me.
  
  Our Heavenly Father and His Only Son loves you enough to let you go your own way and say what you will. Having said that, you will kneel before Them on Judgment Day, but if you stay true to your destructive, self-serving path, there isn't anything The Lord can do for you that hasn't already been done.
  
  God is not your enemy, Earnest, He is your Creator, Provider, Sustainer, and your Loving Father. You owe Him your allegiance, devotion and love. In return, He will give you the same including eternal life in paradise. But know this, The Almighty and His Beloved Son, Christ Jesus, is not the same god professed by other religions although some use His Holy Name for their own selfish, evil purposes.
  
  Apparently if I suck up enough to this persons god (not that I will have any choice) I could survive, but otherwise I'm done for.
  
  But it's all about love. All the others are evil.
  
  Gee that makes so much sense!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Funny, I just posted a hub that sort of deals with some of this, inspired by these forums as so many hubs are!
  
  From my (own) bitter experience belief comes in sections, you have the first saved bit, where we lap everything up and want to save everyone else, this serves to stop us getting invites to parties where sinners hang out, which brings us to know we are being persecuted for our faith (when in fact it's for our mouth) then as we learn some more we become more controlled and wait until we can see the whites of their eyes before we let loose with a barrage of scripture to win them over.
  
  Next comes the "I'm glad I made it. pity about you' form of evangelism, which is somewhere that your postee seems to be coming from, and hopes you will join him in, which we all know you will not!
  
  Next comes the 'but what does the original scripture state' section, which livens up bible studies but drives pastors mad as these freaks get to ask awkward questions AND generally know more scripture than the pastor.
  
  At this point the believer normally leaves the church and either starts their own church to fit their doctrines or lives away from community and sinks or swims.
  
  If they set apart on their own, then both God and the enemy start communication and eventually they end up speaking out for one or the other.
  
  I look forward with quiet anticipation to what comes next.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Me too! That was like seeing my christian friends when I was in the thick of it all over again!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I came out of 'the thick of it' but kept on with God, you went the other way, which does not surprise me when one knows your 'entry' and the deception you were exposed to, I don't doubt you rejected everything that came out of that.
  
  How long were you 'in'?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Close to 3 years, and I am the sort of person who will read and remember every nuance.
  Funny I can't remember how I met the person who indoctrinated me, but it was while I was selling life assurance, eventually selling mainly "whole of life" insurance to parents for their children's future financial security and endowment policies that matured on graduation.
  
  I did well, people liked me and I became a member of the million dollar round table, which is like a club for big earners. I was 21.
  
  I met Allen during that time and he was a human dynamo, and I liked the guts he displayed. I think it is all in one of my old hubs, it may be in THAT hub.
  I became a foundation member of an Australian chapter of Christian businessmen's committee as it was then known, and studied furiously. I even got to see the dead sea scrolls, met and discussed religion with Clifford Wilson who fronted some big organisations and was the director of the institute of archaeology and a devout believer.
  
  Yes I got very involved in the christian religion, not through the church though. I had access to one of the best libraries you can imagine.
  
  Allen had rooms in his new house without floors, but a massive library of religious tools in all the languages of the bible and so I did a formal bible study for two years, using the library for reference.
  A long story, just thought I would provide a friendly glimpse.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When I first came on board it was with a guy whose wife was the guiding light, and he was made pastor because she knew enough bible to know she could or at least should not be pastor! He had run a sports shop before his change of vocation, and was kind of worldly with a good veneer of bible.
  
  When they went back to the UK he wanted me to come with them and start what he termed the Christian Intelligence Agency (get the play on words) where we would challenge any public blasphemy in court and raise millions of GB Pounds to fight the good fight.... I shot away like a rocket from him!
  
  Having previously been a 'salesman' my family refused to believe I was really serious about Christ, they looked for the 'scam' I was bound to pull and it took them about five years to accept that, my faith was real.
  
  Sorry you had those experiences so young in the faith, I know you will not agree, but I will say that Moses was 40 years in the wilderness before he got the call for real.
  
  You would make one fiery and impressive preacher if you ever came to faith again!
  
  Nice to be civilised for a while! it's like the trenches Christmas 1914, before the officers came and made them shoot each other again!
  
  Crickey, I just realised we got back on topic!
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was quite a rude comment left on your hub that someone wrote. Geez. That was ridiculous! Everyone should be entitled to be expressive.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was almost as long as the bible itself! This is just a tiny extract.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I want to thank you Earnest for making me go through 140+ hubs of (mostly)car stuff (not that there's anything wrong with car stuff for those who have been blessed with outies) to find the hub in question and then read said hub and all 150+ comments until I found the offending commenter.... there goes 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. Interesting read by the way... oh by the way, could you link that hub here, just so no one has to go searching?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Melissa I am so sorry! I wish I had a way to organise my hubs a bit better.
  I will link it here so as not to cause further treasure hunts, as I do write a lot about cars.
  
  http://earnestshub.hubpages.com/hub/The … psychopath
  
  Some ain't gonna like it!
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is so sad.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The comments one gets on hubs are amazing, while it is obvious to any thinking person that the hub owner has the capacity to moderate an abusive comment, I would rather leave them intact to indicate to others what sort of person the commenter is.
  What is that saying...... "say what you will, you can but say who you are?" Something like that.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a threat: If you don't find an atheist to hug I'm gonna pray that you get a severe case of butt acne with really big pimples that pop at inconvenient times.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Deep down Mark weally loved me ,I felt it subliminaly
  
  Earnest ,well we got history ,neighbours and that and I do 'love my nieghbours as myself'..even if they say sex instead of six !
  
  AEvans Its true I have had trouble being submissive when my Lord and His honor is mocked and ridiculed, and taken insults on my character for my beliefs etc.
  Stuff that I left behind in a playground ,only to find it here (and thriving) in a supposedly adult writing forum.
  
  A huge part in loving someone is being honest too.
  
  So if someone insults me ,they deserve my love and truth.
  
  I guess I think its a bit wimpy simply saying oh ok I hear you think I am a dumbass but I love you ...
  
  But hey count me in for a group hug ,I lourve to hug
  
  (Jesus also was not shy in rebuking the people he loved,I guess is what Im saying)
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I louvre to hug too! Love the pic (((((Hugs))))
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Most rudest? That grates like nails on a blackboard. Please don't torture the language, it is in enough trouble already on most of the religious threads.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This coming from the guy who said shonky. Oh well, probably wasn't correct grammar and yet doesn't change the meaning one wit.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your welcome. I have just been observing and it is upsetting when (we) as Christians do not act like we should and attack others who are not believers. I know it is hard to walk -the -walk persay; but we should make it a point to try being kind everyday.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Good.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Declined.
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MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago
As a whole, I actually like the non-believers on the forums more than the Christians. If I weren't strongly rooted in my faith, I would go atheist rather than be associated with the bible-thumpers.

And yes, it is possible for members of all faiths to have intelligent conversations and embrace each other's differences. You just have to acknowledge that everyone has a valid point every once in a while. Or at least a point worth thinking about.

Edit: I actually like Mark...er... I mean EG. He gives really good intelligent debate when he isn't being an arse. And Earnest is adorable...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are adorable as well, and you have dimples!
  
  (Tell your husband I mean that with great respect.)
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree... Earnest is adorable.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey!
  
  Watch it you two.
  
  I resemble that remark!
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earniiiiiiiiiiieeeee? Yooooooooohooooooooo???!!!
  
  You've got two ladies who find you "ADORABLE"?
  
  and I'm adding another one...
  
  "IRRESISTIBLE"!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! That's tow women out of four comments!
  The twins are on school holidays and just charged in to attack me. Not an uncommon event I may add.
  
  I asked them if I was adorable or irresistible as well.
  
  Asha said No, you are a silly old granpa, everyone knows that!
  
  Lauren added "and you NEVER feed us!:
  They had breakfast an hour ago......jeez I need all the adoration I can get!
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah... we forgot to mention that little piece of info too...
  
  Melissa and I found you irresistible because we wanted to be fed. So, pull out the chicken wings and french fries. We' eatin' American today! Yeeeeehaaaaaw!!!
  
  XOXOXO
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Emile Rposted 13 years ago
Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?

Judging from most of the posts here.....apparently not.
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AEvansposted 13 years ago
So the thread is just beginning and I already see some tension. Let's try this again. (Embrace) each other.
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  Lord De Crossposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where do i fit in here? I think I took the wrong short cut. Let me out please. (Jk)
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Silly! Being nice is complicated. Oh this is fun!
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nice idea for a thread, AEvans!
  
  I think anyone who is a good person, meaning they do good things, is fine with me. I truly don't care what you believe, if anything at all.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am the same way. All of the bickering is exhausting.
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  quicksandposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's more likely to continue the way it has been ... embarrassing each other! Actually this kinda thing should be discussed in a lighter vein, because both sides always end up losing badly!
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good things ,words ,gesture,thoughts are never wasted whoever says them
  
  Nothing to be embarassed about-least I am not.
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Wentworth35posted 13 years ago
What a refreshing post! I too am addicted to the religion hubs and forum posts, but as an atheist, rather than a believer. However, I am perhaps slightly different in that I am a non-believer who sincerely wishes that he could be a believer. If there is one thing that I have noticed about questions of God's existence, it is that everyone is convinced they are right, and that everyone else is wrong. When I used to be a Christian, I could not understand how anyone with half a brain could doubt that God existed. I looked at the beauty of nature and the complexity of life and could not see how there could not be a designer behind it. However, a study of the cosmos and of evolution convinced me that religion is entirely manmade and that the hope in a God is really a hope in an afterlife, and since everyone is terrified of death, I came to understand that this was the reason why religion existed.

I have argued strongly against the religious believer, because I fail to see how they cannot accept the evidence of science. The fact that many Christians, especially of the American type feel the need to deny the fact of evolution in order to maintain their religion has been one of the biggest reasons, why I have turned away from religion.

I have noticed too how much anger there is between the religious and the atheist. Why it would matter in a seemingly meaningless universe what others believe would seem not to make sense, except of course, that it is by trying to convince others, that we are in fact trying to convince ourselves. Having found myself attacked most strongly on the Richard Dawkins site, for admitting that although I am an atheist, I miss my believe in God, I have come to realise that there is just as much anger from atheists as there are from religious believers. I have myself had many heated debates over God's existence, but am coming to realise that it is not my business what others believe. We all have free will, and are entitled to believe whatever makes sense to use, even if this includes a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden. The trouble is, that many people do believe they have a right to dictate to others how they should believe. I have been criticised for not being Christian enough in the past and for not being atheistic enough, since becoming an atheist. Now, I believe people should keep their own beliefs to themselves, and not try to force them on others.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I support your right to not believe. And to make it more clear I don't care what you believe, It isn't any of my business. I don't argue the existence of god I argue the irony that some atheists want me to believe they are correct and do it with a holier than thou attitude.
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  Wentworth35posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe there is a holier than thou attitude coming from both some of the religious and some of the atheists. It stems from a human need to be right. None of us like to appear to be in the wrong, so we defend our beliefs, as if we are really defending ourselves.
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  meginiowaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wentworth35. As a non-believer interested in the topic of religion, you might want to check out the writings of Jeff Sharlet. He is best known for his book, The Family: The Secret Fundalmentalism at the Heart of American Politics but his new book, Sweet Heaven When I Die: Faith, Faithlessness and the Country in Between is a lovely collection of essays about people living in the margins of faith. He also edits two webzines ~ Killing the Buddha and The Revealer. You can subscribe to both by giving them a google and signing up. High level of scholarship in both 'zines and the books.
  
  I'll be interviewing him for Identity Theory within the next few weeks, if you're interested.
  
  I agree with you in some ways about the holier than thou attitudes. The exception being that I think the people who employ this attitude have egos that have run amok and when this is true people are suffering from a psychological disorder most resembling narcissism. I don't know this to be absolutely true, of course, but after years of study I strongly suspect it. Paz.
  
  Sharlet himself is a self described nonbeliever as are many who study religion. In many ways, its a sociological endeavor.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Shonky (informal) unreliable or dishonest.

You know.... dishonest.
Never let the truth get in the way of an insult eh?
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
"Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?"

Actually, I shall do this the other way around as a non-believer. A religionist lives across the street from me. I shall go over there now and give her a hug. As soon as I'm back out of jail, I'll report back here.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thank gawd you still have your sense of humour!
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am down, but not yet out.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
She hugged me back. All is well.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  who could resist a rascal pants hug!
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here ya go.
  
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Eaglekiwiposted 13 years ago

Few of the locals getting in on the act.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely Excellent!!!
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  quicksandposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cats evolving? ... Perhaps they too will "evolve" into humans!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep evolved all the way into Photoshop by cleverly created humans
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
EG hits the nail right on the head from what I have seen. A straight talker.
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Happyboomernurseposted 13 years ago
Hi AEvans,
I absolutely love what you wrote here. Thanks for being a voice for love, tolerance and respect on all sides .
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am fond of her as well.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Me too.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Always. I love people and wish that everyone could just get along for a little while. It can be tough but with a little work it can be done.
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Lord De Crossposted 13 years ago

Wow..is this thread producing miracles? we didn't even need to wait nine months! Keep the embrace..don't hesitate. Love one another..love one another as brothers..LOL!
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OMG! LOLOLO! You should have told anyone how many little people you had. Now the cat is out of the bag. lololo!
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Cagsilposted 13 years ago
Hey AEvans, I've been meaning to stay out of your thread for a specific reason, but I guess that reason should actually be voiced in some manner, which would require me to post to your thread. Thus, I'm no longer staying out of your thread.

Believers don't need to embrace non-believers. Really, they don't. They should live their life according to simplistic message Jesus gave them. If more of them walked the walk, instead of pretending to walk the walk(only talking the talk), then living life would be so much simpler, easier and much nicer.

I don't require their embrace. I do require their acceptance that I will live my life in the manner in which I choose. Telling me I will be punished based on their beliefs isn't my concern and it shouldn't be their concern either. Those who don't believe, don't for reasons and mostly intellectual reasoning.

It gets tiresome to hear from believers that the judgment they expect to come and believe is coming, will be brought upon all those who don't believe. That is a threat, regardless of whether or not, the believer understands. It's ironic that believers somehow do not see it as a threat.

I would prefer them to believe what they want and live by their beliefs, which have no place in the life of those who don't believe. Many claim it's a personal relationship, yet want to cover all of humanity? If it's a personal relationship, then good keep it on a personal level. It has no place in a non-believers life.

I'm serious. I've seen enough believers, here and offline, to understand that they believe for what and choose to do so of their choosing. That's fine, but the religions of world and all the books that are provided for reading, if read honestly, preach intolerance and ignorance to reality.

Acceptance is all that's asked, nothing more and nothing less. Aside from that, many religious don't seem to grasp the main concept of "love" to begin with. They make claims that they love others, yet their own actions prove them to be liars. On top of that, it requires one to love themselves, before they can love anything else. The teachings from the religious books provided to humanity teach intolerance, which means it doesn't teach love.

Okay, my rant is over with. Enjoy!
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I accept you feathers and all! lolo!
  
  By the way it is quite before the storm. lololo! Feel it coming. ::::::::::::::::::
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  Lord De Crossposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I foresaw Cags. Comment hours ago..He even hesistated..he read the thread....he came back....left....came back...read our comments....took some coffee and...shooot! He fired his rant finally. Luckily he made it home safe. Thinking of gravity..is it just science? I guess our planet is not too heavy to fall forever.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh geez........... He loves us and just had to get here. What would a thread be without him?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry I'm late Miss Evans, I was busy leading a life!
  
  Better late than never, but then again, maybe not!
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are funny! I am glad to see you here. I took a vacation for awhile to!
  
  By the way like the pic. I remember the old one.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, thanks AE, well the 'eye' was kinda nice (for me) for a while, as it symbolised lots of things for me, then I went with the silly face 'cos I thought I was being too serious, now I've gone for the 'gazing wistfully out to sea' approach, 'cos every time I look at it I remember sitting on the beach in Thailand, which I do every three months when I need a border run!
  
  Coming back to the OP I think these guys reckon we are all sour faced morons who live lives of utter seriousness, when in fact we are all as crazy as a fox!
  
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lololo! So true!
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the rant, cags. Sorry, but I was busy working. Glad I could catch it on break.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
I enjoyed that exchange. Honest and attitude free is always good when we can manage it. .
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, very pleasant, now shall we start lobbing grenades again!
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps not on our very well behaved host's thread. I have already been naughty in reply to one of the usual insults and retaliated.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok then, see you when Mark is around in one of his many disguises and we can have a real ding dong!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think he has any disguises, he is just EG in the forums now.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fair enough, I've been too busy of late to keep track!
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quicksandposted 13 years ago
Suddenly if it is proven without any shade of doubt that GOD does exist, what changes could you expect that to bring about? ... Nothing at all! ... The atheists will continue to live by ethics (most of them are ethical) the believers will continue to preach (most of them do although I don't!)

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Eaglekiwiposted 13 years ago
Sorry to be naive peeps ,but whats yer point?

Cuz seriously the biggest ,meanest whatever is just a puppy in dogs eyes -right

Ya gotta know this I do, and I dont know no president of no chapter least not lately
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
I got an OK on the American food from the small fry around here, so it's all American.

Crinkle cut? or slims, what oil we usin? How many wings did you want? Crispy on the outside or seered? Champagne with that?
How's the view? Everyone comfortable? How's the music?

I think I'll grab a beer.
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You gotta pull out that mojito for me (ME CUBAN) and Melissa, well.. she'll probably have a cold one!
  
  Buffalo wings (LIKE'EM HOT! ) For the fries... don't matter... we HP girls are HUNGRY!!!
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I got me a small colloquial problem here....... what the hell are buffalo wings?
  
  We don't have flying buffalo in Australia no matter what your tourist agent told ya!!
  Gawd I'm an ignorant sod! I had to google mojito.
  I'm havin one of them myself! I'll have two if I'm still standin!
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  YUM!!! If I could only get my husband to stop playing FIFA on the XBOX I might be able to take him up on that offer of GOING OUT TO EEEEEEAAAAATTTT!!!!!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OOOOOOOOOOOOOh that looks goooooooooooooooooooooood.
  
  I'll have the drumstick if no one else wants it.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It looks scrumptious! my stomach is growling.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am usually courteous, but in this case, "Race ya to the drumstick!"
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe I have beat you to it! lololo! Your not here, but I will share.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very kind, thank you.
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone cares for a Cuban mojito?
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What does the drink consist of? It sounds good.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  White rum (Bacardi say Bacardi) and soda water over a crush of mint and sugar.
  
  Crush ice place in bottom of a tall glass
  Add mint leaves (I crush mine first)lots of them
  Add fresh cut and squeezed Lime/s
  Pour sugar into it (I use liquid cane sugar)
  Pour a healthy dose of Rum (at least cover the ice and stuff)
  Top up with soda water.
  
  Enjoy....
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh your welcome! Sneaky too! lolo! I knew you were waiting for that drumstick. lolololo!
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MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago
Dang, and I missed out on all of this! I don't do chicken wings, but are their any fries left? And dear God please let there be Murray's Stout. (Since an Aussie is cooking)
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I finally got my husband to take me out to eat. Bikers night at Scully's. Geez! It looked like a Cuban version of The Sons of Anarchy!
  
  Melissa, I saved you some chicken wings!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, no thanks on the wings. *looks around* maybe there is a celery stick left somewhere...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I love stout!
  
  I mix it with lemonade and make a portogaff. Lovely!
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Found it!
  
  Earnest granddaughter had the last one!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That child is being attacked by a vegetable!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here we go again.... what in all getout is a Murray stout??
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now if you could only come up with such instant and certifiable proof when needed you would get us all to follow your god however, I am prepared to follow the stout !
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you are ever in Penang, I'll lay hands on you and cast out a demon or two, would that count?
  
  Note the resemblance!
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I will be in Penang sometime next year. If you try any of your hocus pocus on me I will wave my Taoist charm at you and show you your future !
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yaaaaahhhhhh! Not a Taoist!!!!!
  
  In that case I will have to deal with your ancestral curses also, (and wash hands after)
  
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or we could have a Tiger or two at the local hawkers stalls!
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Safer to confine it to Tiger, those Taoist curses tend to work ! especially when backed with a carving knife !
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ironically, most of the bodies of believers here in Penang are Chinese Churches full of former Taoists!
  
  Deal, we leave the carving knives and curses at home and enjoy good food and beers!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Aqua. The Scots are nuts! The men wear dresses.
  
  What would they know about stout!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah know U Jimmi!
  
  Dinna try say'n that ta a real scot naw....
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MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago
Awww, but she is wicked cute...

Never had beer mixed with anything but tomato juice, of course I'm not really a big drinker. (I don't drink around my kids and I am never NOT around my kids). Since you are heading to the States Earnest, drop me off a few. (Kids have got to go to college someday)
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't drink much either, and never around the kids.
  I was told by a hubber that I was an alcoholic one year that I had 3 drinks in.
  
  {Trying to score points with the old fashioned character assassination method)
  Tongue in cheek only works sometimes on here.
  
  Is it the kids you want me to dump off or the beer?
  I just took them all up to the supermarket to get apple juice, sausages and sweets. (the sweets are for me)
  I can only imagine what the 3 of them would be like on the plane..... actually when I think about it, it would be bags of fun!
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MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago
Actually, you can dump off the beer and pick up MY kids. Take the hubby while you are at it. A day alone with a couple beers sounds like a gift from the Gods.

I think the last time I was alone for an entire day was circa 1992.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Most mums and wives should have a portable sound proof room they can pop in to. My daughter almost has one, she is at the other end of the house with the door locked trying to get some rare sleep
  .
  Grandfathers can take a lot of weight off moms, but not all of us live with our grandchildren.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My dad is in very poor health. My mom is emotionally supportive, but will absolutely not watch Lily. She can't deal with the autistic behaviors. Hubby is the youngest of his siblings and he is 41. His mother is old enough to need her own baby sitter. I don't gets babysitters (I actually had to pay someone 50 dollars to babysit Lily for an hour and fifteen minutes so I could go to a funeral)
  
  Its awesome what you do for your daughter
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Melissa, wish we were neighbours. I would love to baby-sit for you to give you a break.
  
  I use the same method with kids as you do. Love is easy in the presence of children.
  
  I sometimes look after two identical boy twins born at the same time as the girls. They belong to my daughter's girlfriend.
  When the twin twins are together they are a riot! They do keep me very busy though.
  I love being able to help my daughter, and appreciate that not every grandparent is in a position to be able to. I choose to think I am very lucky.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Ok I am outta here in a minute, just gotta throw some kids in bed then I'll sleep myself.
I will be around tomorrow as well... school holidays, see you then.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sweet dreams and tell them a fairy story from me!
  
  You know which one!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
I'll say goodnight with a word from Sam.

“We can either have a twenty-first-century conversation about morality and the human well-being - a conversation in which we avail ourselves of all scientific insights and philosophical arguments that have accumulated in the last two thousand years of human discourse - or we can confine ourselves to a first-century conversation as it is preserved in the Bible.”
― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
There is a problem with embracing with believers, and as usual Sam outs it well/

“Imagine a world in which generations of human beings come to believe that certain films were made by God or that specific software was coded by him. Imagine a future in which millions of our descendants murder each other over rival interpretations of Star Wars or Windows 98. Could anything--anything--be more ridiculous? And yet, this would be no more ridiculous than the world we are living in.”
― Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But Earnest, you are living in a world where billions of people believe that God has His hand in everything, and so would argue that Star Wars was an analogy inspird by God to show what happens when evil is allowed to triumph and how Good overcomes evil when good men stand against it, and who would say that Bill Gates was doing the enemy's work when he stole Windoze and created a captive audience, whereas Steve Jobs created Gods Operating System with Apple, but the cost is higher.
  
  You see (or wish to not see) God nowhere, whereas believer see Gods signature in all things.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You made my case for me aqua.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No problem making your case, it's the truth, except you don't think that God had any part of the bible, nor anything else, and we know He did.
  
  That's the whole point where there will never be any agreement until eternity happens to us all.
  
  I don't care if you are right, and there is nothing to look forward to, you seem to object to my looking forward to eternity.
  
  Got to fly now, school run and busy day, see you later.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok aqua, drive skilfully with the precious cargo. I will be back on your case when you return,
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "The truth is even if we had multiple contemporaneous eye witness accounts of the miracles of Jesus, this still would not provide sufficient basis to believe that these events actually occurred, or why not? Well the problem is that first hand reports of miracles are quite common, even in the 21st century." Sam Harris
  
  ...and yet he still try's to say there is no evidence?
  
  New Atheism, in it's drive to attack Christ, no longer accepts eye witness reports.
  
  Yep, that sounds reasonable and safe to believe in.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's just not that focussed on your christ aqua, it is about man's capacity to relate what they don't understand to superstitious nonsense from the beginning until today.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So because Atheists cannot understand scripture, faith, Christ or how God interrelates to the whole of Creation, they decide to ignore all eyewitness accounts and only stand on what can be proven in a lab environment.
  
  I reckon that by those standards no criminal would ever get convicted, perhaps except for confessing the name of Jesus as Lord over all in an intolerant secular society.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not that hard yp understand aqua. once you stop defending the implausible you can see how ridiculous it is to believe this stuff.
  
  The bible that religion is based on is a concoction of the hundreds of superstitious nonsense gods that preceded it.
  It lives in the aqmygdala as peoples fear of death aqua, it is myth, which is why it sounds so ridiculous when you think about it's basic tenets.
  
  An invisible apparently ferocious god made mankind the universe and everything (to borrow from THHGTTG) but is so inept, uncaring or intolerant it only looks after the people who bow down to it like the heartless religionists we see here, while allowing the innocent children of the world to die horribly because they were unlucky enough to be born in a sewer.
  It is illogical, callous and beyond the realms of any decency, and therefore total and complete codswallop.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Implausible does not mean impossible, it just means that in a secularists limited understanding of the spiritual aspects of life, they cannot find the ability to entertain the notion that something bigger than their ego may exist and hold substance in the greater scheme of things.
  
  Once someone has 'tasted and seen' the evidence of the Holy Spirit, or(as in my case, prior to faith) demonic spirits at work in their and other peoples lives, then it becomes ridiculous NOT to believe in what you have witnessed, indeed, any honest person would be unable to deny that which they have personally witnessed.
  
  I will borrow my brothers excellent answer to your nonsense above:
  
  Now when it comes to the Bible. here's the first thing that really stood out to me.
  
  None of those men took credit for writing those words.
  
  They all claimed to be merely the "pen" of the Lord.
  
  Inspired by God and not the authors of those words.
  
  Now doesn't this strike you as odd, that a man, as pridefull and arrogant as we are, and thirsty for recognition and glory would spend a significant portion of his life writing some of the most beautiful and profound words ever recorded and not take credit for it? I mean, that in itself must've been a mirracle, right?.
  
  So 40 men wrote the 66 books that comprise the Bible we have today.
  
  Not trained scribes but actually a very unlikely assortment of men.
  
  Men who were shepards, farmers, kings, soldiers, scholars, poets, tax collecters, doctors, priests, carpenters, statesman, prophets, and fisherman.
  
  They spanned 16 centuries in time and lived and wrote on the continents of Asia, Africa, and Europe.
  
  The writings were in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.
  
  From Moses in the deserts of Arabia to John on the island of Patmos, and yet their message all points a big arrow to God, and when you study scripture you find that it lacks any single contradiction. I mean, what are the odds? It would be like if you owned an art studio and had a big empty wall that you wanted to fill before opening day. So you got the idea to ask forty different artists from all over the world to paint a 1'x1' square of a landscape.
  
  Knowing nothing of the other artists works and all working in their own studios you finally get all of the paintings delivered and up on the wall before opening day.
  
  You drop the curtain to reveal the most beautifully painted landscape ever seen without a single flaw or error. C'mon!? thats astromical right? THATS the Bible.
  
  For the record, I have no 'fear of death' quite welcome it as it happens, though I enjoy my sojourn here on earth and get pleasure from seeing my family prosper in health and spirit, I look forward to getting back home again, as soon as my Father calls me.
  
  I do not recognise the god you have been angry at all these years, but then I love God and want to be with Him, and you do not.
  
  To me God is the entity that loved me enough to pay the price of my sin for me in order to allow me to be freed from the second death (and possibly the first as things stand)in order to spend eternity with Him.
  
  God is not 'inept' He is omniscient, and He knew that secularists would deny Him and took that into account.
  
  In order to grow from seed you first plant all the seeds, then discard those which are defective and will not bear fruit, you literally pluck them out and throw them on the compost heap of bonfire to get rid of them.
  
  Would you suggest that we should waste space and time on growing barren plants?
  
  Off to collect my daughter now from school.... back later!
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing odd here at all and is quite possibly the worst ever argument to prove the bible to be something more then a man made tool of control over the masses by the elite few.
  
  I can't think of anything more likely to stroke pride and ego with resultant recognition and glory then being chosen by God. Writing a book? Who cares! That guy was chosen by God!
  
  Nothing like being one of the chosen few to give a person the right to feel superior to everyone else.
  
  Honestly, how could God be so dumb as to choose a select few in this manner?
  
  Oh wait, probably cause he doesn't exist.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Guess you didn't bother to read the text then... obviously not, or you may have spotted that none of these guys knew each other nor had the chance to 'conspire' and most certainly were NOT the 'elite' few.
  
  Actually most of the guys God has used got killed for the efforts, amybe you missed that point when you read the bible.... you DID read the bible of course?
  
  God chose and chooses those who have a love of Him, have a heart to follow Him and will listen to what He tells them to do, then do it.
  
  Why come here only to try and trash the kindergarden, try to play nice, this hub was going fine and lots of 'embracing' until the atheist cabal turned up!
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  They don't need to have known each other or to have conspired to have gained the largest possible ego boost, that of being so far better then everyone else as to have been 'chosen' by God. To this day these guys are practically worshiped in their own right by most religious sects. To say these guys were humble and not taking any ego boosting claims is blind, they took the greatest credit anyone could ever take, to say they were hand chosen above all others to be 'the pen of God'. Oh to be so lucky!
  
  I read it, cover to cover more then once. Helped a mormon friend memorize the entire book of revelation since she was told if she didn't she would burn in hell. Went to church twice a week and the only class I ever did well in was religion class, straight A's. There was atime when I would have loved to have died a Saint. Again, these guys get the highest accolades, people worsip supposed body parts of them as relics and have done for a long time. So they died, we all do, they just got a bit of immortality in history in the bargain, not to shabby.
  
  Why? Because I honestly believe religion is an evil disgusting institution. The religious are like everyone else, good and bad all mixed up same as any other group, but the institution of religion? Pure evil. If there is a Devil, religion is his tool and playground. You wanna talk religion safely away from those who think you are passing on a malignant cancer in society to others you might want to find a christian site, here is a link to the first one that looked good for you, but there are literally millions to choose from. Pass off that evil trite as anything more the evil trite in a public place like a writers site simply because they have a religious section and don't be surprised when folks call you on it. If I start a 'Why religion is the evil playgroound of the Devil' thread, you and all your fellow "believers" going to leave us atheists and agnostics to share why they come to feel that way about religion alone? Doubtful. Personally, I would probably just find a good atheist or agnostic site forum to post to if I were of a mind to have a pure religion sucks conversation.
  
  http://www.christianforums.net/
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Why? Because I honestly believe religion is an evil disgusting institution."
  
  So no need to try and hold any discussion with you on a topic that reads:
  
  Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?
  
  You answered that question right away....
  
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What happen to the
  Mathew
  41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and don't turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
  43 "You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? Don't even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect????
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was surpassed, many months ago by...
  
  Matthew 10:14
  New International Version (NIV)
  If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
  
  or even....
  
  Matthew 7:6
  New International Version (NIV)
  “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
  
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In other words you select what you want and discard the rest, typical.
  
  May be the devil is playing on you too!!
  Here is some more for you to discard; Luke 6:29 "If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic."
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bingo!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course-its all about choices.
  
  Isnt that what life is about
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, not at all, as a rational person you will realise that one cannot dust your feet until you have already walked the extra mile and turned the other cheek.
  
  I did all the extra mile walking and cheek turning before I realised it was pearls before swine and dusted my feet.
  
  God is a God of order, and we are created in His image, so when He allows people their free will to demand He is not part of their lives, and lets them languish without him for eternity, we also get to have a minor version here on earth, i.e. we can ignore you when you have plainly demonstrated that your minds are fuddled by the prince of this world, and you reject all spiritual assistance from God.
  
  What words of scripture will you try to twist next?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  More BS.
  
  More speech about "free will". How sad.
  
  Every human being is born with a will and it's free. Meaning it doesn't cost anything. So that means, there's nothing that has any claim on anyone for anything.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I could respond with Blather, Blather, Blather, because your inane comment actually deserves no better than that, however, I will answer you, in case any hapless reader was fooled by your nonsense.
  
  God gives us free will, it's His GIFT to us, He has no need to do so, he could have created us purely instinctive, confined to rules we never questioned or even knew we were obeying, but for humans in His wisdom He chose to give us free will to do as we please, and was prepared to accept that for most of humanity, they would make the wrong choices.
  
  To state what you presumably believe merely shows the depth of your deception.
  
  But thank you, for you have highlighted another area where secularists totally misunderstand how God functions, and in the doing given me a new hub to write.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your god does not exist, therefore this is "blather, blather, blather."
  
  Your inability to understand this is quite shocking. As to the meaningless gibberish you just spouted - the only reason I can see for it is egotistical claims of higher understanding. This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
  
  You have no authority. You do not speak for a god. Self awareness (which you prefer to call "free will") was a natural development of evolution. This is well documented and needs no god to be involved.
  
  Glad you understand how god functions. Odd that contradicts your earlier statements that god is not understandable by mere humans.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh Mark, are you that paranoid about God that you need make such statements!
  
  There is hope for you yet, your insecurities are peeping through.
  
  If I were in the least concerned about atheism having any merit; other than it being a tool of the enemy to easily snare self willed egotists into a lifetime of deception, I may be tempted to dispute your inanities, as it stands you merely reinforce our reading believers trust in God, and (as a by product) induce our fellow hubbers to read what I actually publish, which is good for me.
  
  I actually stated: "secularists totally misunderstand how God functions" which in no way conflicts with 'Gods ways are not our ways' it merely indicates that secularists cannot begin to understand Gods ways, whereas believers, from observation and experience, can gain some insight into how God functions, but only some, however some is better than total ignorance and misconceptions, both of which your corrupted quote illustrate.
  
  If you ever chose to be saved, I suggest you ask for wisdom and discernment as grace gifts!
  
  Thank you Mark Knowles, you serve my purposes well, keep up the good work!
  
  PS. Just checked, my views are up 35.3% since you started replying, well done Mark
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I feel certain that the extra viewer you garnered will be able to spot the utter nonsense and hate mongering you spout for what it is.
  
  Congratulations on understanding what god wants. You must be very, very much better than any one else to have such awesome wisdom.
  
  How much better than "secularists" do you think you are? As it is only secularists that are incapable of grasping "god's ways."
  
  Which are not your own. Color me confused how you manage to grasp something that the bible specifically says you are incapable of grasping.
  
  But - you grasp them any way.
  
  Are you as important as god?
  
  Egotistical self righteousness such as you continue to display always causes conflicts. Tell me how humble you are again - I like that one.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Keep going Mark, you do well to promote me as such, and show who you actually are, or actually were if you identified yourself.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What god Aqua? The one you deceive yourself and make claims to having a connection to. You are a prime example of not walking the walk with regards to your religious beliefs and it's astounding that you fail to realize that you don't walk the walk.
  
  I mean seriously, you pass around more disrespect to others than you receive. So much for truly understanding Jesus' message or even following the rules of your supposed living god.
  
  I've said it before and I'll be glad to say it again. Poser. You pose to have religious faith, yet your ego gets in your way and prove it every time you open your mouth.
  
  What's even more ironic is that you fail to realize, on top of it all, is that it's always easier to remember truth than it is to lie. You've managed to learn so much about scripture(which shows intelligence) that you're able to pull it out of thin air to support your argument. Your actions demonstrate the truth, that you apparently don't walk the walk, but just talk the talk.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Though I said I was out of here, I do not think I can leave your slurs unanswered.
  
  Raymond, you have no idea how my 'walk' is with God, you do not know me, you have not lived with me, you actually know nothing except my screen image and how I deal with secular activists who invade forums and high jack topics.
  
  You have no ability to comment on my life, any more than I would try to comment on yours, you can label me a Christian believer, you can dislike how I deal with you all you like, you can constantly sneer at me, I care not what YOU think, you pushed the boundaries of being polite long ago, and you lost any respect I may have had for you.
  
  Just more sneering and playground tactics Raymond, go play in your own corner, I am not interested.
  
  Now I will again withdraw and let the forum get back on topic, I suggest you do the same, go back to commenting about how believers and secularists can get along, show people your love and maybe even join the group hug.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like we do know you, at least, the important parts, anyways.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A Troubled Man
  1,212 posts
  Joined: 2 months ago
  Hubs: 0
  Followers: 7
  
  That tells me all that I need to know about you also.
  
  At this rate you will have written more posts that I have in 2 years within the first 4 months that you grace us with your presence.
  
  If ONLY you could write hubs with the same persistence, you may even be counted as a contributor rather than just a disruptive element.
  
  Hugs and HUGE embraces to my secular hub 'brother'
  
  BTW nice selective editing of what I stated, did you learn that in the Stasi?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! It would appear you weigh your convictions like you weigh your judgments, without any context or reason, other than pointless statistics.
  
  Never mind what someone says, just look at their post count.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would love to read what 'someone' said, but when all they do is make snide remarks in hit and run attacks with the forums, it's hard to do that.
  
  Maybe write just one hub, see it as paying your rental to HubPages, they have to eat as well you know, and it would tell us a bit about who you might be, hidden behind that troubled exterior.
  
  But then maybe you would not want us to know who you really are?
  
  Anyhow try to get one hub in before you abandon this persona and resurface as someone else.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then, why do you continually do it?
  
  Ah, still focusing on the small things, I see. Again, it matters not what someone says, you are more concerned with their post counts and other irrelevances.
  
  Btw, is "aquasilver" your real name?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First, you don't actually say anything, just disrupt, secondly, if you Google 'aguasilver' you will easily identify who I am, aguasilver was a previous business name and when I first came here, I used it to register, as you must know (changing accounts so often) we are stuck with the first name we register (unless we troll around using different names) and as I am known as Agua, why change it.
  
  Care to identify yourself?
  
  Tell you what you tell me your REAL name and I will confirm mine, hows that for transparency, can you match it?
  
  John
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Are your beliefs disrupted? Has Christianity disrupted the world for two thousand years?
  
  Here's the thing, "John" - if we both tell each other our real names, does that mean that what we say will have more credibility? Will your religious beliefs suddenly become valid? Will your posts rise above all the others with newly injected integrity and honesty?
  
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No TM my beliefs are secure, its discussion with my brothers and sisters that you and yours disrupt, the objective is to stop Christ being discussed, not sure what you are afraid of, but you sure hate Christ being shared here.
  
  My belief are valid to those who read me, something sadly denied in your case, as you have nothing to read.
  
  I guess you are only here to be contentious, I don't think I will bother with you in future.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Are you actually saying that I or anyone else here can stop you from discussing Christ on an open forum? That deserves a double.
  
  Funny how you just make things up as you go along. If anything, mankind should fear those who do such things out of belief for their gods.
  
  You are completely free to ignore me, this is a public forum.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Slurs? That's all you do to others when they disagree with you or point out how you use ego than truth.
  Oh I see, now you're attempting to make this about me. What else is new with you. You don't learn well do you. Your actions speak for you, yet you've not a clue about that now do you? What part do you NOT understand about your own actions showing that you lie, just to defend your belief.
  
  Walking the walk of Jesus, then you wouldn't actually spend any time defending your belief. But, since you apparently continue to defend your belief and your religion, then it shows that you only talk the talk, and don't walk the walk. I don't need to know you outside or how you live. Your actions HERE are what I am watching, paying attention to. Got it? Or do I have to use smaller words so you can understand?
  I don't need your respect. You've already proven via your own actions that you have no respect for yourself, so that means you have no respect for anyone else. You can play the nice guy all you choose, but your actions speak for you.
  
  Of course you're not interested. You like the way you are and your actions prove this. It's just your inability to see that you actions speak more volumes than your mouth.
  And, now you want walk away because you've had your peace to say, which was a lousy attempt to turn things on me. WOW! I guess my post struck a nerve. Well, I hope you become a better person, because as it stands your actions don't speak well of you.
  
  And, before you claim my actions don't speak well of me? Which would be your way of twisting things around, so you don't look like the bad person here. I'll gladly put my character up against your anyday of the week and twice on Sundays. Btw- I'm only pointing out what you do, so you can see it. But, in the time that I have known you and we've managed to converse, your ego is the only thing preventing you from seeing what I say as truth. So get over yourself.
  
  And, if you think it's my ego in my way? Try again. It's not. I learned long ago how to see past my ego and if you're curious on how or why I learned it? It came from being humiliated too much because of it. When I learned to put it aside and see beyond myself, did I find peace of mind and a love that is unmatched.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey aquasilver, I don't think you quite understand the concept of 'dust the sand from your sandals'. It's a free world on the internet and everyone has a right to speak, but if you had brushed the dust off, you'd be gone. You're still here. What's up with that? Maybe pearls before swine is more about those who claim to follow the Christ, but twist and ignore his words?
  
  These are questions that roll through my mind frequently as I wander through this forum.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Emile, I'm still here because there are actually other readers than your gang, they just stay out because when someone writes here in opposition to your gangs desire, they get attacked.
  
  There are 17 people following this as I write, you are running three against one, so that leaves 13 souls who may just be interested in following, but not wanting to put up with the flak they gat for actually contributing.
  
  When a believer 'dusts their shoes' they are merely choosing to ignore those who will not hear, not leave whilst there are others who are open to listening.
  
  But you are right, you comments are not worthy of answering, so I will create an image that I can leave under all the inane attack posts.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I think I would know if I were a member of a posse. I'm pretty sure Mark holds me in low regard. Ernest too. A Troubled Man called me a troll once, so I don't think I'm part of his gang.
  
  I call them like I see them and I don't care who likes it. Please, feel free to respond with inane pictures. It might be a better read than your posts.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, so now we know where your ideas come from. That explains everything.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here ya go aqua, the proof you need to support your case.
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The line here should start from the right as well.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why should I do it when you are doing it very well?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! What's to understand? Magic? Are you saying you understand magic? And, you actually believe there were eye witness accounts from people who still ran and hid from thunder and lightning because they thought they were angry gods?
  
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Guess you missed the original quote:
  
  "The truth is even if we had multiple contemporaneous eye witness accounts of the miracles of Jesus, this still would not provide sufficient basis to believe that these events actually occurred, or why not? Well the problem is that first hand reports of miracles are quite common, even in the 21st century." Sam Harris
  
  One of yours said that, shows how desperate you New Atheists are to disrupt free speech and debate, indeed this was quite a good topic and debate until the Blatherers arrived!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Growing barren plants? That's rich!

Wipe out almost a whole species you created as an omniscient being? That is simply insanity.
You defend a ridiculous myth from a myth from a myth as truth because you had some experience that is greater than anyone else's and follow the god who is better than everyone else's god

Thereby you are better than I am, and all the other plebs who don't understand, not bright enough to see that a bronze aged myth is the reality to live a life by.... sure.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Not quite awake yet, sipping coffee SOoo I might be awake in a minute.

Does "anyone" believe that they (themselves) are an extremists?

I haven't known anyone that admits to being an extremist; though I have known many. At least they are in my opinion. And since I feel so strongly about that, maybe I ARE ONE too.

I guess what I'm thinking is, How many extremist are really looking at both sides of their favorite issues?
Can we be an extremist and open minded at the same time?

I think that the truth lies someplace in the middle .... that is where they put those white on the hwy. Not in the ditches, but right streight down the middle.
Are you an extremist? NOT ME .,.. we all say !
How many of us are really being honest with ourselves

OOps, not quite awake yet. I gotta give my neighbor to work ..
will ck. back in later. Maybe I'll be awake when I get back.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, I am an extremist, I am extremely aware of what God has done for me, and that my extreme desire is to be closer to Him, each day, as I grow older and wiser.
  
  Would I consider myself extreme by secular standards, you bet, and happy to be so, for we have some of the most dedicated secularists here on the forums and they need sledgehammers to crack their shells.
  
  Where I am not extreme is in the acceptance department, I have no desire or need to convert any of them, nor anyone else, in a forum situation, all I seek is to disrupt their constant denial of God and attempts to undermine the faith of others.
  
  They can do as they please, or as Rhett said:
  
  "Frankly MiDear I don't give a da**"
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yup - that pretty much sums up why your religion causes so much division and conflict.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Blather, Blather, Blather,Blather, Blather, Blather,
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. Little wonder you cause so much ill will.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Blather, Blather, Blather,Blather, Blather, Blather,
  
  You stop making trite, inane, nonsense, copy and paste 'quotes' and maybe I will answer you.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I did no such thing. I pointed out why you cause so much ill will and conflicts. Because you don't give a damn.
  
  This is why your religion has caused so many conflicts. The followers do not give a damn about anyone else. As you stated.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..EG you want me to stop talking about God,to show you that I care?
  
  Dont you see that is nonsense and the opposite of what Christ teaches.
  
  Why would you persist with this attitude,if its not working?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, what I said was:
  
  "Where I am not extreme is in the acceptance department, I have no desire or need to convert any of them, nor anyone else, in a forum situation, all I seek is to disrupt their constant denial of God and attempts to undermine the faith of others.
  
  They (you secularists who seek to disrupt) can do as they please, or as Rhett said:
  
  "Frankly MiDear I don't give a da**""
  
  It's you Mark, and your little cabal of New Atheist chums who I don't care for or about, because you are only here to DISRUPT discussion on a religious forum.
  
  You have made your choices, stop bleating to me that I must play by YOUR rules, you have no say in my life, any more than I seek to have any say in yours, indeed, I would be delighted to never hear from you again.
  
  But if you persist in resorting to 'trite, inane, nonsense, copy and paste 'quotes'' then all you deserve is; "Blather, Blather, Blather,Blather, Blather, Blather"
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bavo Aqua ,it does so get very tedious doesn't it.
  
  I expect better from an educated man (EG) but there ya go,wonders never cease.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you seek to disrupt? Odd you don't see or understand why this causes conflict and ill will.
  
  But then - you don't give a damn - do you? This is why your religion has caused so many conflicts.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There you go again Mark, Blather,Blather,Blather, and if you actually read my post, you would see that I ONLY seek to disrupt the Blathers like you who only come here to disrupt our discussions.
  
  It's YOU I don't give a damn for Mark, my concerns are not for casting pearls that will be trodden into the mire, when there are folk who can use what we preach to improve their lives, so why bother with the Blatherers who just want to blather on ....?
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You preach nothing that will improve anything John. You simply promote hatred and division. You are not casting pearls. You have no authority. None.
  
  I get that you don't give a damn for anyone who does not believe the war mongering, divisive hatred you promote.
  
  This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Even more blather, blather, blather, you amaze me in your ability to repeat yourself whilst saying nothing.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I said something. The fact that you choose to ignore it will not change that.
  
  This is why you cause so much conflict.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lies.
  Where do lies come from-hmm no surprise at all.
  
  This is what causes conflicts-lies!
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are many things that cause conflicts, but - yes lying about the existence of Invisible Super Beings is one of them.
  
  Please stop.
  
  Thank you.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  aguasilver; I agree with your reply TOTALLY.
  
  There are some people here that belittle what they call as extremist.
  I was just trying to point out to "Them" that WE can all be considered as such from someone elses prospective.
  
  Last year I couldn't even spell extreemest ... Now I ARE one!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Surprising what titles and words are out there huh Jerami..( maybe it makes them feel smarter )...
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep gotta put them down in order to feel that we are better than them..
  
  We keep forgeting that we are also "Them" to somebody
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thats true too.
  
  Guess nobodys perfect
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Alexander Alexposted 13 years ago
hiiiiiiiiiii
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PG McPhatposted 13 years ago
I thought we were supposed to be embracing each other.
Somehow this discussion went off track!

Just what causes this type of conflict?
The believer insists on believing in something without evidence.
The atheists' insist that common sense should prevail.

Believers live their life based on faith, it is in stark contrast to those who live life based upon what they see as "REALITY"

But to the believer, his faith is "REALITY"

Trying to explain why faith makes sense, INHERENTLY, makes no sense to the atheists.

But the believers are quite sure that their faith is absolutely valid, even if it makes no sense at all to the atheists, because making sense is not what faith is all about.

Faith is based upon a psychological need, of which the atheist does not have.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doing really well until you had to take a swipe in the last line!
  
  Faith is based upon things hoped for but as yet unseen, no psychological need, just faith in God.
  
  My life would be much simpler without God, but I would not want it that way, God makes life much richer for me, and I love the fringe benefits that come with belief.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you hope for something, whether it be God or a T-bone steak, is there not a psychological need for it? If you don't want it why would you hope for it?
  
  Of course there is a psychological need in most believers for a God. God defies death, gives eternal life, direction and reason to their lives. I've had far too many believers ask how I can go through the day thinking I would cease to exist sometime, or without a reason for my being, to think they don't have a need for those things.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Was I speaking to you?
  
  No, don't think so, so please don't speak at me, or think that you know what I need or do not need.
  
  OK kiddies, play safe, I'm off to bed.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yup. Believing that you have some authority by speaking for the Invisible Super Being does seem to give your life meaning.
  
  The fringe benefits being all the ill will and conflicts you cause by claiming authority without reason? And then needing to attack anyone who does not believe?
  
  This is why you cause so many conflicts. 2,000 years and still sticking it to us? Disgusting.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yet more Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Blather,Mark you are SOOOOO predictable it's boring.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah - keep reality out at all costs.
  
  After all - you don't give a damn.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think EG has got your measure and you really don't like being confronted by someone who can nail it so succinctly.
  
  Despite all the childish responses to the various sarcastic spelling "errors" in his posts, you and others must know by now that he is a well educated gentleman with a kind heart and no time for religion, which he has been consistent with from day one.
  In the mean time almost every religionist here has fallen out with another religionist about how goddunnit, and none of you "experts" have ever laid a glove on him in 3 years.
  
  You can't deny what he says, so resort to attacks on him personally that are shallow and that some of you know are deliberate lies.
  
  One after the other like flies on a cow pat, you guys say he should learn to spell, and ignore the message he is stating, which is that you have displayed your (willing)lack of education again, and may be a hick from the bible belt lookin fer a good lynchin.
  
  Does any religious zealot here have the right to tell others that they have to believe a ridiculous illogical, hate-filled ancient invisible sky fairy?
  
  No they don't.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yet your hero EG seems to think he does.
  
  Oh my Earnest you traded Jesus in for this guy?
  
  Seriously
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't run to heroes Kiwi. And I didn't trade religion for anyone. I just took in what is available to all.
  
  I respect the words of someone who is consistent and honestly says what he thinks, instead of running away by making personal smarmy attacks that they know have no substance.
  If the religiously impaired had the same morals, there would be no arguments.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..But EG doesnt give any facts he just mocks and quotes repetitive statements.
  
  So yes I guess he is consistant in that manner
  
  Honest?...I really dont know about that. Im inclined to think its all about perception.
  Morals,Im sure EG has them..but how would we know this? (unless he was speaking principle ,we already agreed with)
  
  All I am saying is how is that any different than say, a nutty fundie.
  
  Objectively none.
  
  They both chant nonsense in my opinion.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He's not lying, like so many consistently dishonest Christians here.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well you agree with him,so to you of course hes telling 'your truth' !
  
  Selective reasoning. or indoctrination hmmm..
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a matter of agreeing, he's just not going out of his way to lie like so many Christians here.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Youre entitled to your opinion.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're entitled to be honest.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are crediting Mark with too much, sure we know he is a great guy, and intelligent, but "nail it so succinctly" I don't think so, he has about three pet phrases that he will repeat ad nauseum and frankly it's pathetic.
  
  YES I can deny what he says, and will, for he has avowed to disrupt any and all discussion between believers for the simple reason that he is still hurting and damaged from things that have happened to him in life, and hates God.
  
  I do not need to put up with his problems, so when he wants to behave like a boring teenager with ADHL I will ignore him, but not simply ignore him, for he would see that as victory, just pointing out to the forum users that he is Blathering again.
  
  If of course he has any intelligent discourse, other than just attempting to disrupt things, I will respond.
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  PG McPhatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I didn't want to cause any conflict.
  
  And this is where the conflict begins. We have to understand that our beliefs do not correspond to reason, and accept that they are based in our emotions. This way we can understand why it is pointless to try to debate with the atheist, who are using reason.
  
  To the atheist, it is not a matter of things hoped for but yet unseen, but rather, things that are simply preposterous.
  
  That is your mind-set, and it serves you, but to some people, there is no need to attach themselves to this concept, and they are sure that what we believe is sheer nonsense.
  
  I, on the other hand, think that life is much simpler with a belief in God. It gives me comfort in a world of chaos and uncertainty. Atheist are not afraid of the chaos and uncertainty. I applaud their courage, and embrace them as fellow travelers on the road of this unknown concept called life.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am happy you find life easy with god or for any other reason, it would be a wonderful planet if everyone could be in circumstances that allowed them to be happy.
  
  Thank you for the respect shown to non-believers. As an ex-believer It took a lot of courage to give up the dream of eternal life and deal with the life that I have.
  
  I think that if there was a god he would be happy with your post.
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  PG McPhatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. But my belief is not in any of the religions of the world. I only believe in the concept that a God exists.
  
  My girlfriend is totally atheist. When she told me that she did not believe in an afterlife, I was shocked that she could have that kind of courage. Eventhough I keep the door open to possibilities, part of me knows that she could be correct.
  
  Thanks!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
It isn't about discussions between believers though is it?

The hubpages forum has become a place to flog religion.
I wonder if I can sell my ute here?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  depends... what the hell is a ute?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A utility.
  
  A small truck with a flat tray on the back.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You really see religion being flogged Earnest?
  I wished I shared your optimism.
  
  Yes ya probably could sell ya ute or hey ya wanna trade -Monte Carlo 95 (rebored) whatever that means.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was way less interesting than I hoped
  
  shyte, that reply was meant for earnest. Sorry kiwi... You are always interesting.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shouldn't that read the HubPages RELIGIOUS forum IS a place to discuss religion, when it's members can actually do that despite being pestered by people who think religion should not be discussed except in terms designed to disrupt all believers discussion?
  
  Go sell your 'ute' on the forum that sells 'utes'
  
  You will never sell the 'ute' you are pushing here.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Free speech - except where people point out how religion actually spreads hatred and ill will, and it's proponents gain egotistical self righteousness by claiming to speak for a "higher power"?
  
  Lets discuss religion - but not that actual facts and truth about religion?
  
  Thank goodness you can no longer burn us at the stake.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fine, carry on trying (and succeeding actually) in your disruption, you are both a sign of the times and I welcome the (minor) persecution that you offer believers, especially as it actually strengthens faith in folk.
  
  Well done, whisper and blather away, you serve your master well.
  
  Forgive me if I choose NOT to play your games further.
  
  Got to be easier souls to save out there than you two!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Last time I looked the forum was "Religion and Philosophy, not "christians flogging their religion only"
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Serve your master well?

I don't serve a master, and what you are implying is morally despicable.
What a stupid thing to say!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What I am implying is a suggestion you do not wish to consider, anyhow, playtime over, I have things to do, Europe is now online and I need to work some!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Which god would that be again aqua?

That would be your god right?

The one inside your head that talks to you, not the one inside the muslims head that talks to them, the other angry psychotic one eh?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
It's a heap simpler than that aqua, it is used exclusively to insult...... always has been used that way.

It's just a gutless way of calling someone an idiot and you know it.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well frankly on the average foray I make into these here forums, I am insulted much more than metaphorically, but hey, who cares, like the old English phrase goes, "Sticks and Stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me"
  
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
aqua I think you need to know a bit more about how you get your hits, I can assure you it has nothing to do with Mark! and once again you miss your obvious egotistic claim to something that "atheists" and others, even ex christians are too dumb to understand.

Funny that.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, all I know is that when Mark and you and Cagsil start trying to tag team me, my reads go up, now I could just put it down to folk seeing my responses to the attacks that happen, and thinking, this guy has something to say, and paying me a visit, but I would shy away from saying that, because one of you guys would call me 'egotistic'..... Oh hang on, you already have!
  
  Not egotistical to recognise from the way people write and think where they may be less understanding than someone else.
  
  If we were discussing auto mechanics and the procedure for running a successful car repair business, I would not call you 'egotistic' if you to pointed out that you just maybe had a better grasp on things automotive than I do.
  
  You tell us that you had three years bible study under someone who was not a minister but was a criminal con artist, and apparently never had a Holy Spirit experience.
  
  Marks area of expertise seems more in Internet marketing of coffee machines and property, and Cagsil I confess I have no idea what he does for an actual living, nor whether he has ever actually read the bible with understanding, so let's ignore him for now.
  
  To me it's actually quite simple:
  
  Someone who has 42 years experience as a humanist non believer, and 18 years experience as a Holy Spirit filled believer, could conceivably have a better grasp of scripture than a non believer or someone who believed in the circumstances you described (which were hardly liable to lead you to a real understanding of faith)
  
  They may even understand where the non believer was coming from in their arguments, and recognise the forms of attacks and reasoning behind them.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Funny thing you call a fellow christian a criminal when it suits you.
  Alan was a fanatical religionist like yourself who lived for "the word" He was also a liar and a thief, but never lied any differently than any other fanatic I have met who will lie, misrepresent or slander in a futile attempt to justify the contemptible invisible impossible fairytale.
  
  The thing Alan could do was a skill I see amongst religionists often in this very forum. A complete blindness to his ego, logic and common sense was his area of expertise.
  Go for it, I'm sleeping.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually you called 'Alan' a criminal and con artist, not me, I only repeated what you said.
  
  You can look at my new 'dust my shoes' image which will replace commentary when all it is doing is replying to secularists disruption attempts.
  
  I like it, it will serve better than writing 'Blather, Bather, Blather'
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God is good for business
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TamCorposted 13 years ago
I think that everyone has forgotten what Julianna was aiming for in the original post...

What a shame that even for one of the sweetest hubbers here, we can't keep this thread on topic.

Sorry Julianna...your heart was, as always, in the right place!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well Earnest and I were actually having a sweet and good time until Mark Knowles decided to disrupt things, then the rest just went pear shaped, which was his intent of course, look back a few pages and it was fun.
  
  Julianna, apologies if I assisted in your topic being hijacked, by replying, as you can see I have now started popping an image on their replies, in the hope that we can get back to civilised communications, but I fear it has gone too far on this topic.
  
  I will now unfollow the topic and stay out.
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Cammie 1016posted 13 years ago
Agreed. I'm Christian too and I have a cousin who can't decide what religion she wants since her mon's a Christian and her dad's an athiest. I' m trying to lead her toward my religion.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please. Don't. Stop trying to lead her toward your religion.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago

To all. The line starts at the right.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Mamy people who have forumed-da dummed da -dum, probably think that I am a die hard Christian ! I'm not , Im only a believer , My only real mission in the forums has been to call out the fact that almost all of the discourse is in fact ! from the non-s! And everybody knows that it is THE much more tolerant Believer that will alway imbrace the non believer! Just my oppinion ! And I know that. So here's a group hug from me to all the atheistic intellectual idealists who are to follow posting from here.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A horseback that was the most round about way to ask for a group hug I've ever read. Did you not want a hug?
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Emile , Oh ya come on ! Bring it on! Dont be touching my butt now....!
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Oh, my!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The really nice thing here was that both Wesley and Inigo Montoya were the good guys, thanks for selecting one of my favourite films to illustrate this post!
  
  I can quote from the script I have watched it so many times with my family, it is a classic Christmas film for us.
  
  It has romance, adventure and a moral tale.
  
  I have been attempting to withdraw from this topic for two days, it seems they will not let me do so, unless I cede to them the last word.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I love this movie too. A classic. You know, there's no shame in letting someone else have the final word. It doesn't mean they win. You know?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I know, but I guess that as an Alpha male it is difficult, and these guys wind me up, which is the intention anyway.
  
  Coming back when someone has 'left the field' and making a snide remark just annoys me, especially when whoever leaves it is not really 'here' anyway, and I have no idea who they really are as they never write any hubs.
  
  I will quit out for a while and ignore the insults, and try not to hand too many out either.
  
  Thanks.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So an animal still(like any other human)? Is there democracy and the principles of equality in your part of the world?
  
  We have managed to control our animal instincts and become more human, so evolve, if possible!!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When was the last time a dog or monkey signed up to go to war
  
  The animals make the humans look dumb.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only you can speak for yourself.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Likewise
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever seen a pack of dogs rip another animal apart? A group of chimpanzees go out on what can only be viewed as a murder mission? Those animal instincts are the ones that we reflect with our violence.
  
  But, have you ever seen a dog feed their neighbor? Create government programs to house the poor? Would a chimpanzee pull the coat off of their back to offer it to a homeless monkey? Probably not. Animals don't make us look dumb, although some of our actions can reflect those of dumb animals.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Man kind has a choice, can reason.
  
  Animals are geared to survive, not reason.
  
  Liked your last paragraph. Enjoyed it.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Humans are out of control, the prisons are full of humans not animals.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Humans are just a different type of animal. They are called mammals.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just a label ,that I dont wear
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It only means that you refuse to agree with scientific discovery of knowledge about the human species. Good show on you.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes thats a fair analysis.
  
  Science doesnt define me. God does
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, that statement is just your irresponsible nature. Because, YOU define you, through thoughts and actions. So much for understanding your own life.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My nature is far from irresponsible!
  Once again your judgement is harsh and untrue.
  
  Simply because I dont follow your thinking- or the latest scientific discovery lol
  
  How arrogant to think you or anyone else is correct, or has the final say on MY life!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, your actions prove otherwise. But, nice try.
  Harsh? It's truth. As for saying it's judgment? It's my right, because actions are the only thing I can judge. Therefore, my statement is accurate.
  Nope, but nice try yet again. It's your inability to understanding your own life.
  I didn't say I had the final say of your life and only foolishness would lead you to say something of that. It's common knowledge that your thoughts and actions DO define you. Read your bible, which is solely based on one's character, which is based on thoughts and actions. Therefore, thank you for proving you know nothing about your own life. Much appreciated.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok you judge me on my actions ,yet you see none (here) so you are not judging me on my actions at all.
  
  Your sole judgement on me is what I say I believe.
  
  Which is ok ,just pointing out that you say one thing ,but mean another.
  
  Untruth or
  
  Contrary.
  
  Furthermore ,you think after reading the Bible ,that still makes you an authority on MY life-wrong again.
  
  C'mon Cags ,I would have expected you of all people to know better.
  
  Look I know who the President is of the United States,but do I know him?
  
  No-
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You forget posting here is an action of your thoughts and fingers.
  Untrue. Saying something is an action.
  It just shows how you twist things to suit yourself. Good show on you.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is the last word really so important? Maybe you should think about why.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Melissa,
  
  I make no claim to be perfect, and you are right, maybe I should examine why I need the last word when in reality I don't even want to reply at all to these creeps.
  
  I guess it's having been an Alpha for 50 of my 60 years and having difficulty allowing trolls to make snide remarks.
  
  Must spend less time in the forums and more time with my family or writing!
  
  Thanks
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't meant as an insult... Sorry about the wording, I'm out of coffee filters so I am without my fix for today
  
  I had an argument with my ex once that he won hands down. I can't remember what it was about but it this was the end:
  
  Him: You... you are so....
  Me: Persistent?
  Him: Actually, the word is "relentless"
  
  In the four years of therapy that the 13 year marriage resulted in, I learned quite a bit about myself. One of the most important lessons was the last word doesn't mean that you have proven the other person wrong, it doesn't mean that you have forced agreement (usually verbal relentlessness leads to the opposite effect), it doesn't mean they have learned anything. It just means that you (meaning a general you, not you in specific) have driven the other person into submission.
  
  I love being right... I mean seriously love it. But... I don't to be the kind of person that makes someone give up their point of view just to be able to live in peace.
  
  This addressed to you, but it really wasn't aimed at you... It was just me bringing up a general point.
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Levertis Steeleposted 13 years ago
@AEvans: You are so right. My new attitude: I am embracing others because Jesus embraces me and asks me to love my fellow man to show my love for Him.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's more like it. ((((Hugs))) But I do have to say I am enjoying this thread, it is so much fun!
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  Lord De Crossposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can't we get along for once!!?
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  la di da, la di da, wouldn't that be nice Only if......
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you have a Beach Boys song in mind when you wrote this?
  
  "Maybe if we hope and wish and pray it may come true"
  
  Wouldn't it be nice, la di la la di la la....
  
  http://youtu.be/L--cqAI3IUI
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  Lord De Crossposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Are we waiting for a miracle then??
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think we are if we ever expect non believers to 'embrace' believers.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps a conversion like that of Saul of Tarsus?
  
  Some might be ready for such a miracle. Others might shrug it off, deny it, hide it, go crazy from it, or merely think someone slipped LSD in their last meal.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And some can think for themselves.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We all think for ourselves, we just don't think the way you want us to think.
  
  That is our offence, and secularists seem incapable of forgiving us for it, it seems such an affront to them that we have no problem with secularists non belief, when secularists have such a problem with our belief.
  
  Now, where's my hug?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you religionists were convinced all non believers go to hell, where's the love in that?
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lolollo! Actually I was thinking about a Disney song and I believe it was from Cinderella! lololo! Yes definitely Cinderella, it is now back in my head. (((hugs))
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Emile Rposted 13 years ago
Do believers understand the concept of unconditional hugs? Seriously. I've never seen people go so far out of their way to alienate, and then say 'give us a squish'.

The whole point of the thread appeared to be an attempt to get believers to be the first to set the differences aside for a moment. Not ask the nonbelievers to swallow an insult.

Ego. It will never be denied.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ((((Hugs))) Come on, give us a squish
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aw. <hugs> That's how to ask for a squish.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Im a hugger and when I worked in this other place for a while ,the other person hugging didnt like showers ...ohhhh that sure was a special kinda hug-took my breathe away
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I used to carry a pack of mints to pop and share with a coworker who had horrendous breath, every time he stopped in for a chat; I don't know what I would have done if he was a hugger. Changed jobs, I guess.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a hugger, but being a male I don't worry too much about bad smells.
  
  Once you have done a thousand nappies you become immune to how things and people smell.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh trust me I thought that too ,I mean some of the nappy days would have halted any further wars (insert green face) lol
  
  ..But the memory forgets ...temporarily ,its when I think Im immune ,I get a reality check!
  
  @ manly smells..ahem
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awareposted 12 years ago
the majority of the word non believer . is believer.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You need to explain what you are saying here.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is a Math thing! It is a nine to three thing.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And the significance of that is?
  
  most of the word insignificant is significant...... so what?
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
OK goodnit Yal.
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Believers Embrace Non-Believers Can It Be Accomplished?

"Although I am Christian why do we believe we have to argue about religion? Shouldn't we be embracing those, who are non-believers instead of telling them why they should believe?"

Human beings love wisdom and arguments; there is no harm if the Christian highlight the wisdom in the verses of Bible; instead of just quoting them.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thats true,I do both.
  
  Often personal testimoney is ridiculed on a public forum though.
  But its also a natural thing to share what someone has done for you ,or effected you in some positive way.
  
  I will always give God the glory for what He has done for me.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Please quote any of your posts where you have mentioned a quote from the Bible with the wisdom highlighted by Bible of the teaching in the quote.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh there are several spanning over a period of many months, um ,happy to do it ,if there was any point to it ?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just quote one; if you please.
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daisybevposted 12 years ago
I am brand new to hub so hope I am doing this right. I just wanted to say I agree with AEvens. We all have our own beliefs and truths. I think most of us are on the same journey. Its just we all have to take our own path to get to our destination. some of us fall in pits along the way. We ponder why we fell, and pick ourselves on and get back on our path. or if that path is not working, then find a new direction. Life is a journey after all.
Thanks for allowing me to speak here
Daisybev
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Welcome Daisy!!
  
  and yes you are doing everything correct
  
  Just be yourself, obey the rules (which Im sure you will) and ignore the bullies.
  
  Humor will be your best friend here.
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  AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Daisy, you can speak anytime and thanks for your bravery on speaking your piece of mind. Welcome!
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  daisybevposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks. I use to post on beliefnet.com and loved the energy. I am looking forward to sharing more.
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  AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We are looking forward to your replies.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
I would leave the embracing to the more Christian than I , I kind of enjoy fencing with the fools of 'intellect', We all know who they are , the bitter and disillusioned who can't help but show up in the forums just to show thier lack of respect . These are the same ones that flow around the internet disrepecting anyone and everyone they can . They are so unhappy with thier lives that they wish everyone else to live the same selfish and bitter existence that they suffer. Real christians are far too kind ,too lenient, too "turn your other cheek " to realy call them out for such disrespect. I choose to "tell it like it is "with them , I'll leave the embracing to those with more patience.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fools of intellect? And you talk about the name calling of others? WOW!
  I'm sure that not everyone knows of them, so why not bring out the names? Because, when you do, you'll get pounced on.
  Lack of respect? Your lack of respect is already shown in this particular post. As for those who are bitter or disillusioned? Well, I know some are bitter and some are disillusioned, however, I'm sure you're unable to tell the difference between who is which.
  Well, I guess this statement isn't talking about me, but is talking about others who are probably not even members here.
  Now this is quite a statement. Not to mention it's completely uninformed.
  Any true Christian(true follower of Jesus) would never go into a forum to talk about their beliefs in the first place.
  You chose to "tell it like it is" with them? Actually, you show off your own level of understanding and lack of knowledge, more than you do anything else. Too bad you don't seem to grasp that.
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  tsmogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is most definitely a paradox you have presented Cagsil. If I agree with your statement "Any true Christian(true follower of Jesus) would never go into a forum to talk about their beliefs in the first place," I face the dilemma of the observers objectivity of my subjectivity. Just kidding. Or, can it be answered without "talking" and only be agreeing, yet the question of exposure becomes relevant.
  
  OK, I confess I am a believer in g(G)od, but don't want to discuss my beliefs regarding Jesus. Oh wait a minute, you didn't say belief in Jesus, you said beliefs. Whew! In that case I don't believe in anything. Oh, wait that gives me away too! It's been a long day of reading I think I am confused - (grin). Man, unless you get in the beginning of a thread these can be tedious, but fun.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Tsmog, give me your definition on "g/God" and we'll start from there. However, if you find your definition matches that of religion, then don't bother.
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  tsmogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Simply, I do not accept or have a system of belief(s) surrounding religion, formal or otherwise. However, I have been exposed, subjected to, or manipulated by the socialized processes we or at least 'I' encounter both within a life(time) or daily.
  
  My definition of g(G)od or g/God (I did that originally to be respectful, but I see it is senseless) "there, out there, somewhere, Mr. Sulu."
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  tsmogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I learned we do better at hubpages if we use the forums. I think I will discover time to be here now and then. I picked on you because you caused a welcome feeling on that other thread about truth. Thanks then and now. And now for the big wow factor I learned just now how to do smilies and I have to go to work
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for showing respect for those who are selfish, disillusioned and bitter, who are so unhappy they suffer with existence.
  
  So, you showed up in this forum to offer your respect?
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  AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  oh boy.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Perhaps because I'm not part of an organized religion I can be more observant of both sides from the center . This allows me a clarity in my judgement that shows purely and simply that you guys are pure "aginners" ! And its always the same . Non believers trying to dis-prove someone elses faith. Constantly spewing forth with the phlem of the bitter ! And just what are "aginners ", just that one percenter thats against the this and against that. And for what the pure pleasure of disrespecting others without consequence.
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1. 71
  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're never objective? Go figure.
  Clarity, You? Yeah right.
  Bad perception as per usual.
  I cannot speak for all non-believers, but I'm not attempting to dis-prove someone's faith. I just show they how their actions, like yours are irrational.
  Your statements are nothing more than pure irrational conjecture.
  Disrespecting others without consequences? WOW! Talk about foolishness.
  reply report
2. 74
  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  aginners,
  learned a new word sounds like a good description for that nagging dry kinda cough that wont go away after a bout of the flu
  reply report
  0
  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  haha
  I like your definition, and ahorseback's too.
  reply report
78
mulberry1posted 12 years ago
I wouldn't count myself as a believer, nor as a non-believer. I guess I'm leaving the option open that God exists and so forth. I cannot prove he does or does not.

Anyway, my thoughts are that if one feels the Bible provides guidance for life, it is guidance aimed at that individual. One should not read it, interpret it, and immediately apply it to others. It is for your own private use. It would seem to me, you should think primarily of yourself and how it applies to you, rather than how it applies to all of those other sinners out there. Basically, I consider that to be true of any type of self-help book as well.

As a person who hasn't really spent a great deal of time reading the Bible I can't say for sure, but I doubt that it tells people to read it, and then enforce it. Perhaps they should live as an example, provide witness (?) etc., but in general, I doubt He expects believers to sit in judgement of others.

I know that the Christians whom I hold in highest esteem live their beliefs rather than outwardly foist them on others. I probably feel the same about atheists.

Anyway, it's with that frame of mind that I feel believers can embrace non-believers.
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